IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-03-10
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03:22:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour graph windows to brown https://git.io/JqOvS
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10:38:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] matthijskooijman opened issue #12: Fails to build with gcc 11 (ambiguous reference) https://git.io/JqsPX
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11:04:55 <TrueBrain> so ... OVH has a dark day today.
11:05:03 <TrueBrain> Seems we are a bit lucky that the VPSes are hosted in other DCs
11:09:39 <TrueBrain> no ... that looks devestating
11:14:02 <TrueBrain> right, so, 1.11 .. what was next ..
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11:15:05 <TrueBrain> owh, right, LordAro had to do a YOLO approve to close 4 of them :P j/k, but is there anything I can do to help show its correctness?
11:19:26 <TrueBrain> okay, the last comment in https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8700 really is a nice way of formulating that. Anyway, LordAro , are you fine with the sign-list changing colour after the explanation? Or should we leave it out of the PR and at least accept the rest?
11:21:14 <TrueBrain> and should the language change be done for all languages, I wonder .. no clue if eints fixes that for us, or if all translators need to fix it :P
11:21:15 <LordAro> i suspect leaving the performance window as black-on-brown would be better
11:21:25 <LordAro> but other than that, yeah, fine
11:21:36 <TrueBrain> performance window? That is what is changed here, not?
11:22:42 <TrueBrain> I only see windows change to brown, so I am not sure what you meant there LordAro :D
11:23:10 <TrueBrain> owh, the two strings?
11:23:26 <LordAro> yeah, and what Zorg talks about
11:23:54 <TrueBrain> okay, that also resolves my language problem
11:23:57 <TrueBrain> so I kinda prefer that too :D
11:26:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8700: Change: Recolour graph windows to brown https://git.io/Jqspm
11:26:56 <TrueBrain> I think the default x25 max fast-forward is not fast enough :P
11:27:03 <TrueBrain> really curious what values people change this in
11:28:08 <TrueBrain> to me it makes more sense to have less options that work more global
11:28:12 <TrueBrain> instead of all those fine-grained control
11:28:25 <TrueBrain> sure, it helps that niche group of people do their thing, but it is really unfriendly to 90% of the players
11:31:09 <TrueBrain> okay, that only leaves 2 tickets in 1.11 .. a crash when you start 1.10 after 1.11, and sorting issues ..
11:32:15 <LordAro> and the general GL weirdnesses
11:33:02 <peter1138> Be like a modern program, all windows have a white background...
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11:33:41 <TrueBrain> LordAro: we tackled the general GL weirdness with allowing people to deselect it, I think
11:33:51 <TrueBrain> without someone who wants to debug the AMD issues, I am not sure we have any way forward there
11:34:19 <peter1138> I wish I knew where to start with my lag. Non-AMD...
11:34:37 <TrueBrain> in your case, you got the suggestion to install the NVIDIA performance tools, I believe
11:34:41 <peter1138> Removing the sync seems to help, but that doesn't seem like the right solution.
11:36:15 <peter1138> Hmm, is that NVIDIA PerfKit I wonder.
11:36:26 <peter1138> " New in 4.2.3 Support for the all-new NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960"
11:36:34 <peter1138> That might be out of date... :D
11:39:27 <peter1138> Seems you need to modify your code to link to it and call it.
11:42:09 <Wolf01> So one OVH datacenter literally became cloud (of smoke) today
11:42:39 <TrueBrain> it makes for one hell of a scary photographs
11:43:42 <TrueBrain> wow ... the gui zoom bug .. I can produce weird effects in master too
11:43:46 <TrueBrain> doesn't crash as such, but ...
11:47:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8711: 1.10.3 crashing at start when interface size is set to auto-detect from master (1.11), shared config in document folder https://git.io/Jt9Kw
11:49:41 <TrueBrain> sorry for hijacking your ticket Wolf01 :)
11:49:50 <TrueBrain> but pretty sure 1.10.3 is doomed for this scenario :D
11:50:08 <TrueBrain> now to think of a way to fix this issue ... I have no clue really :D
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11:52:12 <Wolf01> If 1.10.3 doesn't crash with invalid values I see no point on having a turbo-release 1.10.4, the problem might be to handle it nicely on 1.11
11:52:35 <TrueBrain> owh, I can now also crash it on master
11:52:39 <TrueBrain> it just depends on what NewGRFs you have loaded
11:53:23 <TrueBrain> openttd: malloc.c:2379: sysmalloc: Assertion `(old_top == initial_top (av) && old_size == 0) || ((unsigned long) (old_size) >= MINSIZE && prev_inuse (old_top) && ((unsigned long) old_end & (pagesize - 1)) == 0)' failed.
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11:55:38 <TrueBrain> it is memory corruption++
11:55:44 <TrueBrain> it is just writing in random parts of the game :D
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11:58:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JqGYY
11:58:49 <LordAro> forgot about that one
12:02:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8835: Fix #8711: having gui_zoom lower than zoom_min causes crashes https://git.io/JqGY4
12:02:25 <TrueBrain> knowing what the problem is makes for easy fixes :)
12:03:56 <LordAro> how did that cause memory corruption?
12:04:04 <LordAro> shouldn't it have failed earlier in about 5 different ways?
12:04:51 <TrueBrain> seemly, nobody really cares what the zoom level is :P
12:05:01 <TrueBrain> some parts use zoom_min to load sprites
12:05:07 <TrueBrain> other parts use gui_zoom to draw sprites
12:05:13 <TrueBrain> they only intersect in blitteres
12:05:44 <TrueBrain> very specifically: Encode functions in blitter only do this from zoom-min to zoom-max
12:05:49 <TrueBrain> and have no sprites encoded outside that range
12:06:16 <TrueBrain> viewports have a zoom-level, which is set to gui_zoom on init
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12:06:26 <TrueBrain> and Drawing uses this
12:06:30 <TrueBrain> so yeah ... 1+1 = crash
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12:07:14 <TrueBrain> 2 disjunct variables which collide on the storage :D It is pretty funny
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12:07:24 <TrueBrain> "Show signal GUI: None"
12:07:27 <TrueBrain> that feels really really weird
12:08:44 <TrueBrain> how do you cycle through signals?
12:08:54 <spnda> I just noticed that the function name from my pr #8813 is wrong, as we kinda changed what it does during review
12:09:33 <spnda> for just a rename? ok sure
12:10:16 <TrueBrain> I don't really mind, if it helps future-us
12:11:25 <spnda> It's called AddRefreshRatesAndSelect but the selection doesn't occur anymore
12:21:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda opened pull request #8836: Fix #8813: Misleading function name for selecting refresh rate https://git.io/JqGOH
12:22:09 <spnda> TrueBrain: Just opened it, can close it if you want to. Not a big deal
12:23:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8836: Fix #8813: Misleading function name for selecting refresh rate https://git.io/JqG3U
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12:35:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JqGWf
12:35:06 <TrueBrain> well, that reply got a bit lengthy
12:35:26 <TrueBrain> but he really listened too much to other people's opinion and forgot to KISS :D
12:35:47 <TrueBrain> with that, I also think that is not going to happen for 1.11 :)
12:37:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8835: Fix #8711: having gui_zoom lower than zoom_min causes crashes https://git.io/JqGWk
12:37:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8836: Fix #8813: Misleading function name for selecting refresh rate https://git.io/JqGOH
12:39:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8711: gui_zoom can have invalid values, not respecting zoom_min https://git.io/Jt9Kw
12:39:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8835: Fix #8711: having gui_zoom lower than zoom_min causes crashes https://git.io/JqGY4
12:39:13 <Timberwolf> I remember when I used to listen to other people's opinions.
12:39:50 <TrueBrain> LordAro: owh, I merge first, but I now notice: why is a static cast needed to go from _gui_zoom_cfg to _gui_zoom, but not the other way around
12:40:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8830: Add: make modal windows update more smooth and fix "closing the app" issues closely related to this. https://git.io/JqGWm
12:41:04 <TrueBrain> maybe it would have been better to clamp _gui_zoom_cfg first, and cast it to _gui_zoom after
12:41:12 <TrueBrain> meh; "it works", I gues
12:41:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8760: Game asserts/crashes when closed during newgrf scan https://git.io/JtA4c
12:41:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8833: Crash when closing game when manually triggered NewGRF scan in operation https://git.io/JqqH8
12:41:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8828: Fixes for modal progress and NewGRF scan issues https://git.io/JqLnc
12:41:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8830: Add: make modal windows update more smooth and fix "closing the app" issues closely related to this. https://git.io/Jqt93
12:42:13 <LordAro> did you intend to close #8828 entirely? i thought there was one remaining problem that yours didn't solve?
12:42:17 <LordAro> or did you roll it all in?
12:42:25 <TrueBrain> that was the EXTRA EXTRA EXTRA
12:42:30 <TrueBrain> they should all be fixed :)
12:42:49 <LordAro> "This invalidates the first three commits in #8828, but not the fourth"
12:43:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry, bit poorly worded
12:43:14 <TrueBrain> you need to know the fourth is 8760
12:43:35 <TrueBrain> I just solved it by using _exit_game, instead of adding another global
12:44:01 <TrueBrain> I like that ThreadAnalyzer complains that _exit_game is not thread-safe
12:44:09 <TrueBrain> it is a boolean, only read by one
12:44:11 <TrueBrain> only written by another
12:44:21 <Timberwolf> It's sometimes hard with forums to distinguish between "this is someone who's just opened the thread and found something to suggest" vs. "this is an idea from someone who's played more games with your set than you have"
12:44:23 <TrueBrain> not sure where it thinks that can go wrong :P But strictly seen .. it is right
12:44:54 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: what I notice in this case, that is is more like: the suggestion is solid, but the solution was rolled into something else
12:44:55 <Timberwolf> Well, with Trains sometimes the first is obvious when the suggestion is, "you should make $TRAIN which is already in the set" ;)
12:45:10 <Timberwolf> Yeah, that happens a lot.
12:45:19 <Timberwolf> I have this at work.
12:45:28 <TrueBrain> if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, concept
12:46:05 <Timberwolf> People suggest solutions, which actually indicate interesting problems but don't solve them (or generate new problems)
12:47:13 <Timberwolf> And yes, they roll in unrelated things which then make it hard to unpick, "which parts of this complicated idea actually help you and save you time?"
12:48:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8837: Codechange: rework codeflow introduced in 098d5b22 https://git.io/JqG0s
12:48:42 <TrueBrain> one thing OpenTTD has, is very complicated settings
12:48:45 <TrueBrain> I like simple things
12:48:52 <TrueBrain> where it is obvious and unambiguous what it does
12:49:06 <TrueBrain> but these massive settings with: this changes these 5 things that appear unrelated but have a common word
12:49:13 <TrueBrain> that always ticks me off a little bit :D
12:49:43 <TrueBrain> but I know very well I did that a lot too when I was young :D
12:52:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8837: Codechange: rework codeflow introduced in 098d5b22 https://git.io/JqGuY
12:52:54 <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, exactly that :)
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12:54:09 <Timberwolf> I did amuse myself with how Road Vehicles 2 had about 17 parameters (which affect each other combinatorially) and Trains has... 4.
12:55:40 <Timberwolf> The strange thing with that is the RV development thread had almost constant, "you should also add a parameter for doing x" whereas Trains is much more, "oh right, that's how the set is, fair enough"
12:57:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8837: Codechange: rework codeflow introduced in 098d5b22 https://git.io/JqG0s
12:59:20 <Timberwolf> I think the early start stuff was my favourite suggestion that I wouldn't have done myself.
13:00:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JqGzJ
13:00:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8693: Feature: allow changing the game-speed other than 1x and warp-speed https://git.io/JtDPS
13:01:11 <TrueBrain> I always realise there is a reason UX designers are paid a lot of money
13:01:25 <TrueBrain> they constantly have to balance feature-requests / suggestions vs what is actually going to be helpful
13:01:55 <TrueBrain> (in terms of UX, that is)
13:02:25 <TrueBrain> also, unrelated: job hunting SUCKS
13:04:26 <Timberwolf> Yeah, UX is a whole load of things like, "how do people actually interact with this, rather than how do they say they interact with this?"
13:04:31 <TrueBrain> looking at grfcodec always makes me giggle .. someone was really paying by the letter, it seems .. total lack of spaces :D
13:05:10 <TrueBrain> is there any chance I can do that .......
13:07:30 <TrueBrain> that moment you open Performance Detail window
13:07:32 <TrueBrain> realise you made that
13:07:34 <TrueBrain> and it looks like SHIT
13:07:53 <TrueBrain> why did nobody made that pretty over the years? :P
13:08:13 <TrueBrain> progressbar is off by 1 pixel
13:08:17 <TrueBrain> no border around it
13:08:22 <TrueBrain> visual spacing is weird
13:08:27 <TrueBrain> : after labels, like: huh?
13:08:34 <TrueBrain> little spacing around "/"
13:08:37 <TrueBrain> do I need to continue? :D
13:09:41 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you should fix it :p
13:09:57 <TrueBrain> UI redesign, scheduled for 1.12 :)
13:12:34 <TrueBrain> but it seems most of today will be wasted on reading more job descriptions and figuring out what kind of company it is
13:14:21 <TrueBrain> still funny to play this game with 32bpp, fully zoomed in .. everything jumps around :D
13:17:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8647: Road and Tramway Catenary Drawn Incorrectly / Unsorted https://git.io/JtALK
13:18:15 <TrueBrain> why couldn't they just all do the same .... :P
13:25:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge opened pull request #30: Fix: Specify AWS_DEFAULT_REGION in publish workflow https://git.io/JqG6y
13:25:55 <orudge> TrueBrain: Could you look at that PR - I assume it's necessary to fix the publishing failure?
13:26:19 <TrueBrain> it is; can you do the same for OpenGFX?
13:26:43 <TrueBrain> it will fail sooner or later too
13:26:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] TrueBrain approved pull request #30: Fix: Specify AWS_DEFAULT_REGION in publish workflow https://git.io/JqGPs
13:27:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenSFX] orudge merged pull request #30: Fix: Specify AWS_DEFAULT_REGION in publish workflow https://git.io/JqG6y
13:31:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] orudge opened pull request #59: Fix: [Actions] Specify AWS_DEFAULT_REGION in publish workflow https://git.io/JqGDb
13:31:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain approved pull request #59: Fix: [Actions] Specify AWS_DEFAULT_REGION in publish workflow https://git.io/JqGye
13:31:45 <TrueBrain> I like how you have 2 different commit messages :D
13:32:53 <TrueBrain> okay, I can "fix" the catenaries issue, but .. I cannot fix it :D
13:35:07 <TrueBrain> what is mildly annoying, that the sprite called "back" is in the front
13:38:05 <TrueBrain> why is there no spec for the height of catenaries? Or is that a question better not asked?
13:38:06 <spnda> For 8647, isn't that catenary thing one big sprite? So drawing it beneath the vehicle would lead to the powerlines being underneath aswell, no?
13:38:15 <TrueBrain> no, there are 2 sprites
13:40:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] orudge merged pull request #59: Fix: [Actions] Specify AWS_DEFAULT_REGION in publish workflow https://git.io/JqGDb
13:40:58 <orudge> [13:31:45] <TrueBrain> I like how you have 2 different commit messages :D <-- I forgot the [Actions] on the first one :p
13:43:57 <TrueBrain> spnda: currently what I see ingame, is 1 sprite for the poles and 2 for the wires
13:44:01 <TrueBrain> in 2 sets I have been looking at
13:44:14 <spnda> but not with OpenGFX it seems
13:44:34 <TrueBrain> one of them is OpenGFX
13:45:08 <TrueBrain> 1400 for example is only wires
13:45:41 <TrueBrain> I really know nothing about any of this stuff btw
13:45:47 <TrueBrain> just looking at what I can see ingame
13:47:04 <Timberwolf> I have a feeling this will be one of those things that is fine for the base sets and fine for newgrfs which inherit the base set layouts, but will break something where someone made an assumption on how things work based on what happens in game.
13:47:23 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: owh, this is a shitshow one way or the other
13:47:31 <TrueBrain> I was comparing it with elrail
13:47:35 <TrueBrain> there it has specs about the bounding boxes
13:47:42 <TrueBrain> no clue why NRT doesnt .. but I am also afraid to ask
13:48:06 <TrueBrain> but I figure, if both sets I can find work, new ones will deduce their sprites from there, not?
13:48:11 <Wolf01> Feel free to ask, 3 people might just ragequit :P
13:49:05 <Timberwolf> Timberwolf's Roads will be resolutely unhelpful here as it doesn't have backsprites, due to this issue :)
13:49:12 <LordAro> the general answer to "why does NRT do/not do <thing>?" is generally "it had been rewritten at least 3 times and no one really knew about the overall picture anymore, but people were still keen to get it out the door"
13:56:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8838: Fix: change the bounding boxes of tram catenaries to fit with current sets https://git.io/JqGNq
13:56:14 <TrueBrain> this is all kinds of wrong, just .. less "wrong"
13:56:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JqGNO
13:57:12 <TrueBrain> correct solution is properly to add specs .. which is a bit out of my skillset
13:58:36 <TrueBrain> owh, wow, zbase is really broken already
14:02:41 <TrueBrain> okay, finally found a sprite as indicated by spnda , which breaks now ofc :D
14:04:27 <TrueBrain> impossible to solve that one :)
14:05:13 <TrueBrain> okay, no way we are going to be able to fix this properly for 1.11 LordAro :D
14:06:46 <TrueBrain> we could just as well close that issue with: impossible to fix because of the way NRT grew
14:07:03 <Wolf01> The only solution is to switch to full 3D and rendered flat, like I was trying to do on my game
14:08:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8838: Fix: change the bounding boxes of tram catenaries to fit with current sets https://git.io/JqGhL
14:08:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8838: Fix: change the bounding boxes of tram catenaries to fit with current sets https://git.io/JqGNq
14:08:38 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: that is a completely different game
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14:09:00 <TrueBrain> the only solution in an isometric game, is not to do things that go over and under an object in a single sprite
14:09:05 <TrueBrain> these should never have been single sprites :)
14:09:20 <LordAro> Samu: `const CargoInfo &a` etc
14:10:16 <Wolf01> The problem with my game was that every single object needed to have an internal sprite sorter which needed to sync with a global one... and I fucked up
14:10:38 <Samu> oh, just that? what difference does it make?
14:11:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8647: Road and Tramway Catenary Drawn Incorrectly / Unsorted https://git.io/JtALK
14:12:26 <TrueBrain> any issues / pull request I am missing for 1.11?
14:12:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: #8468 would be nice
14:12:48 <Wolf01> BTW, isn't a problem of NRT, it always was like that
14:12:49 <LordAro> though it's been broken for a while now
14:13:04 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: "always"? Trams only exist since NRT, not?
14:13:34 <LordAro> trams have been in the game for years
14:13:36 <TrueBrain> trams existed before?
14:13:39 <TrueBrain> totally missed that
14:13:53 <supermop_Home> since at least 2009ish
14:13:54 <Wolf01> Tram as separate entity for road yes, but before they worked the same
14:13:58 <LordAro> part of the problem of NRT was that roads & trams already existed as separately as they did
14:14:22 <TrueBrain> changed NRT into "trams"
14:14:29 <TrueBrain> who ever wrote trams, fucked up in OpenGFX :P
14:15:23 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain currently the front part of the catenary works fine, its the rear sprite that is sorted wrong
14:15:41 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: there are no "front" and "rear" sprites
14:15:42 <TrueBrain> that is the problem
14:15:50 <TrueBrain> depending on the sprites, it can be both
14:16:22 <TrueBrain> well, 1409 is a bad example
14:16:34 <TrueBrain> these are ... a problem
14:16:46 <TrueBrain> so if you fix one, you break the other, etc
14:16:57 <TrueBrain> unless OpenTTD has a magic fix for this, that is not something that is fixable in my book
14:17:03 <TrueBrain> but I love it if frosch123 proofs me wrong
14:17:16 <Wolf01> Yeah, we should 1. fix the grfs 2.handle them in the right way in the code
14:17:33 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: seems while drawing someone took some freedoms :)
14:18:02 <supermop_Home> you have to be a bit careful how you draw them (i took special care as to what pixels i put in which sprites when i drew unspooled)
14:18:15 <Wolf01> 1420 and 1422 are even drawn both in the same tile iirc, to fix the sort order
14:18:17 <TrueBrain> yeah, and OpenGFX didn't do that, from what I can tell
14:18:50 <TrueBrain> but I know way too little about this to say if this is fixable in OpenTTD
14:18:53 <supermop_Home> but the game at least allows for front and back sprites, but draws them both always in front
14:19:01 <TrueBrain> all I can say, from an isometric perspective, there is no solution here
14:19:11 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: that is very true
14:19:13 <supermop_Home> opengfx sprites are not drawn particularly carefully
14:19:15 <TrueBrain> they are both drawn equally :P
14:19:24 <TrueBrain> but I tested the other sets we have .. none do this correct
14:19:57 <TrueBrain> there isn't even agreement if wires should be in front or back sprites
14:20:00 <LordAro> i'd suggest that you need a frosch
14:20:07 <TrueBrain> LordAro: absolutely :)
14:20:14 <Samu> the suggestion doesn't work, it doesn't compile
14:21:14 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: honestly, I think the best solution is to extend the specs to allow bounding boxes for catenaries
14:21:21 <TrueBrain> that means you can do what you want in your own set, and can make it look pretty
14:21:22 <supermop_Home> if the bottom half of the rear pole is is on the rear sprite, and the top half is on the front, it will work, if the game drew the sprites in the right area
14:21:28 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain i would love that
14:21:36 <Samu> cargos.emplace_back(CargoInfo{ i->produced_cargo[j], i->last_month_production[j], cargo_suffix[j].text, ToPercent8(i->last_month_pct_transported[j]) });
14:21:40 <TrueBrain> I think that all other solutions will just result in edge cases in other places
14:22:11 <supermop_Home> but i assumed in the issue i opened that enforcing the expected sorting between front and rear would be easier
14:22:20 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: so we will have to wait for frosch123 to either agree or disagree with me, and take it from there :)
14:22:45 <supermop_Home> if the opengfx sprites are so messed up as to not work even with that fix i volunteer to redraw them
14:22:53 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: sadly, not in the way others already draw catenaries for trams
14:23:02 <TrueBrain> zbase is also broken
14:23:05 <TrueBrain> like .. really broken
14:23:12 <TrueBrain> haven't tried abase
14:23:20 <LordAro> Samu: please be specific, what "doesn't work"
14:23:27 <TrueBrain> CZRT is a lot better, but also breaks; mostly because the height is wrong
14:23:35 <supermop_Home> i can probably chop zbase up in photoshop to fix if license allows
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14:23:57 <LordAro> supermop_Home: bBase when
14:23:58 <Samu> cargos.emplace_back(i->produced_cargo[j], i->last_month_production[j], cargo_suffix[j].text, ToPercent8(i->last_month_pct_transported[j]));
14:24:01 <TrueBrain> so let's wait what frosch123 says; he is our guru on this :)
14:24:15 <Samu> this doesn't compile, i don't quite get the error
14:24:15 <LordAro> Samu: ok, i should have been more specific, *how* doesn't it work
14:24:26 <LordAro> paste the error somewhere appropriate
14:24:44 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: mostly, I thought it was a simple problem with just some mismatch between specs and implementation .. but it is more a problem of identity .. what is a front and back sprite :P
14:25:36 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain i get that, but idk if its best to not fix at all bc some grf authors didn't bother to make separate sprites?
14:26:16 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: I am not saying we aren't going to fix it or anything. All I say is that I cannot fix it currently without breaking other stuff, so we need to consult our bossman :D
14:26:36 <supermop_Home> here is what i did for front (notice the top halves of rear polesare still on the front -
14:26:36 <LordAro> Samu: well, you're right, that is a horrible error message :)
14:27:40 <TrueBrain> I think those sprites currently will also fail in sorting with trams that have a relative high height
14:30:01 <LordAro> Samu: ah, ok, you can't use emplace_back like that with a struct without a constructor
14:30:18 <LordAro> Samu: so you can just replace emplace_back with push_back
14:32:44 <_dp_> any chance for zstd in 1.11? ;)
14:34:21 <Timberwolf> TrueBrain: I'd vote https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8604 would be nice if we can stand having yet another option, it's a bit of a niche but it helps avoid the "I hate this server, admin is using 2x sets, literally unplayable" problem.
14:35:59 <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: for PRs with that many comments I always hope that the people involved at a certain point either close or approve it :D
14:37:05 <TrueBrain> codewise, maybe not do this: "sprite_type != ST_MAPGEN ? zoom < lengthof(zoom_lvl_map) && zoom_lvl_map[zoom] >= _settings_client.gui.sprite_zoom_min : zoom == 0"
14:37:15 <TrueBrain> mayyyybbbbeeeeeee ... there should be a bit more variables involved :)
14:37:51 <Timberwolf> Nah, code golf is the way, implement all of OpenTTD in a single gigantic stack of ternary operators.
14:38:06 <TrueBrain> I really had to backtrack from the : to the ?
14:38:09 <TrueBrain> took me a bit of time :P
14:38:48 <Timberwolf> Yeah, seems fair, it's one of those things that is only readable for a short time after being written.
14:39:23 <LordAro> it's like a onetime pad
14:39:28 <TrueBrain> and after a lengthy debate with yourself :D
14:39:30 <LordAro> as soon as you look away, it's unreadable
14:39:48 <TrueBrain> "maximum GRF-provided zoom-level to use, forces scaling for further zoom levels" <- I btw completely fail to parse that :)
14:40:16 <TrueBrain> I now read it 5 times, and I still have no clue what it is trying to tell me :P
14:40:26 <TrueBrain> "GRF-provided" I already do not understand
14:40:38 <TrueBrain> but the "forces scaling .." .. *shrug*
14:40:45 <TrueBrain> this might fully be a me problem, to be clear :D
14:42:45 <Timberwolf> Usually with this if one person has the problem other people will have it.
14:43:16 <TrueBrain> I guess my problem comes from the: wtf does NewGRF have to do with this? :P
14:43:24 <TrueBrain> as I assume this also limits the zoom for basesets?
14:43:56 <Timberwolf> That's a good point, it applies to basesets too - NewGRF is just a possible vector for sprites with extra zoom levels to be provided.
14:44:07 <TrueBrain> and if I replace "forces" with "prevents"
14:44:11 <TrueBrain> I think I understand :)
14:44:50 <_dp_> hm, I always assumed 8604 is a per-grf setting
14:44:52 <Timberwolf> I should clean it up anyway, it ought to be clear what this is actually doing in code terms (not just one person's view of the concept)
14:45:32 <_dp_> makes no sense whatsoever as a client settnig to me as it's specific to a particular set of newgrfs
14:46:33 <TrueBrain> I would enable this; I fucking hate the 4x zoom-in graphics of most sets, while I love to zoom in real close from time to time
14:46:38 <TrueBrain> annoys the freak out of me :P
14:46:39 <Timberwolf> I think about it in terms of, "person A wants to run a server with a mixture of 4x, 2x and 1x sets. Person B wants to play with them but they strongly dislike the effect of mismatched resolutions."
14:47:27 * _dp_ wants to run a server without mismatched resolution :p
14:47:57 <TrueBrain> especially the tram itself
14:48:20 <Timberwolf> Foster-style vs. render-style is where I get off the bus. :)
14:48:51 <TrueBrain> and yes, I strongly regret we added both 4x zoom and 32bpp to OpenTTD
14:49:00 <TrueBrain> (32bpp sprites; not 32bpp blitter)
14:49:57 <TrueBrain> anyway, Timberwolf , I think the PR looks good, minus the two things I mentioned. maybe also fix the commit message in the idea of the suggestion from nielsm :)
14:50:16 <TrueBrain> "Highest resolution sprites to use" indeed is more descriptive of your change :D
14:50:19 <Timberwolf> It's a shame Gold Rush never got completed, that would have been a big justification for 4x.
14:51:07 <glx> <TrueBrain> or the bridge <-- trees and grass don't work well either
14:51:21 <TrueBrain> no, but the bridge! LOOK AT THAT BRIDGE!
14:51:24 <TrueBrain> that is weird as fuck :P
14:51:25 <_dp_> as a client setting you'll have to change sprite zoom every time you join a server or load a save
14:52:02 <Timberwolf> A total replacement is a big project for just one person, especially at that level of detail.
14:52:20 <TrueBrain> shouldn't those be local?
14:52:53 <TrueBrain> they are neither stored in a savegame nor syncd over the network
14:53:43 <glx> it's all visual (with no effect in gameloop I hope) so yeah should be a client setting
14:54:11 <TrueBrain> yeah, so I fail to see why you would need to change it when you load a save or join a server?
14:54:50 <TrueBrain> I am reading how elrails do catenaries .. so you get things like: PPP and PCP
14:54:54 <TrueBrain> like . euuhh .. sure?
14:54:56 <_dp_> because newgrf set changes and previous value does not apply to it?
14:55:29 <_dp_> changing zoom level is almost the same thing as changing newgrf
14:55:57 <TrueBrain> "Which of the PPPs are inside the tile" <- I keep reading peepee
14:56:00 <TrueBrain> I still have no clue what it is
14:56:09 <Samu> found a division by 0 crash
14:56:27 <TrueBrain> _dp_: sorry, I do not follow. I would set this setting on 1x for me, and never touch it again
14:56:32 <TrueBrain> I am not interested in 2x and 4x
14:56:59 <TrueBrain> "A straight line is found if we have exactly two PPPs."
14:57:10 <TrueBrain> not understanding what PPPs are, makes this amuzing to read :D
14:58:50 <_dp_> TrueBrain, so if gold rush ever comes out you won't be able to see it in full glory? :p
14:59:04 <TrueBrain> I am counting how many fucks I give ...
14:59:06 <TrueBrain> still counting ....
14:59:11 <TrueBrain> stilllll coouuunnttttiinnngggg
14:59:12 <_dp_> though I guess it makes sense in a way that there is nothing to see on 2x and 4x currently
14:59:14 <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry, zero :D
14:59:21 <Samu> produced_cargo_filter starts with 0 for some reason, why
14:59:29 <TrueBrain> again, I really regret we added 4x and 32bpp sprites :)
14:59:42 <TrueBrain> but, personal opinion
15:01:08 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: what is weird to me, but again, I know very little about this, why for elrail there also is no bounding box; but this seems to work fine?
15:01:23 <TrueBrain> (as in, if I read the code correctly, it is always a 1x1x6 bounding box)
15:01:34 <TrueBrain> well, I guess that is only for pylons
15:01:38 <TrueBrain> wires are drawn separate
15:01:40 <_dp_> still, I'd like to be able to limit zoom lvl on a server without forking all relevant newgrfs :p
15:02:35 <_dp_> though I guess I'll probably end up doing that anyway...
15:02:45 <TrueBrain> seems elrail is a bit more clever in pylons and wires
15:03:12 <Timberwolf> Elrail has that whole thing where it uses alternate pole layouts on straight runs.
15:03:38 <TrueBrain> it is always funny to me to read 2 nearly the same concepts implemented in 2 completely different ways :D
15:04:39 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain, elrail has bounding boxes for the poles and wires, but idk if you get any control over them
15:05:10 <TrueBrain> code-wise, pylons are always drawn as a 1x1x6 bounding box
15:05:21 <TrueBrain> you can control the offset in a fixed grid, by the looks
15:05:31 <TrueBrain> reading the code, not reading specs btw .. :D
15:05:43 <supermop_Home> my goal is to be able to define both a xyz location and bounding box size
15:05:57 <supermop_Home> but unsure how practical that is
15:06:05 <TrueBrain> I wonder why trams have a front/back sprite, and elrail has pylons+wire sprites
15:06:10 <TrueBrain> does either work better than the other?
15:06:52 <supermop_Home> pylon + wire seems more natural but i bet you can come with more odd usecases for front+ back
15:07:07 <TrueBrain> and more sorting issues :P
15:07:18 <supermop_Home> like abusing the catenary to be a suspended monorail or something
15:07:33 <supermop_Home> or in my case, a log flme
15:07:38 <TrueBrain> you can abuse the wire for that too :D
15:08:38 <supermop_Home> if i can set the wire as being behind the vehicle, or a pylon as being long and low, could do it that was as well
15:09:39 <TrueBrain> too bad sprite sorting doesn't work as: put this sprite behind that sprite :D
15:10:58 <TrueBrain> seems trams mostly just assume vehicles are below the start of the pylon that is behind vehicles
15:11:02 <TrueBrain> in those cases, it all works perfectly
15:11:09 <TrueBrain> there is only a problem if a vehicle is higher
15:11:45 <TrueBrain> still weird as fuck, but I am not judging :D
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15:13:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ufiby opened issue #8839: You can't convert the road type, because the road belongs to the city https://git.io/JqZ0j
15:13:32 <TrueBrain> is ^^ an issue or as intended? :D
15:14:34 <_2TallTyler> This must be governed by the local authority rating, because I've had no problems upgrading roads
15:15:37 <TrueBrain> glx: yes, that was my conclusion in the tickets too yes :)
15:15:42 <supermop_Home> unsortable how?
15:15:46 <TrueBrain> drawing 2 pylons in 1 sprite on different sides of the tram track
15:15:49 <TrueBrain> that is not sortable
15:15:56 <glx> but it's solved because there's matching front
15:16:13 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain ignore the 'front' pylon on the rear sprite
15:16:26 <supermop_Home> because it gets drawn over my the front sprite
15:16:43 <glx> you draw back, then vehicule, then front
15:17:02 <TrueBrain> but not all front sprites draw the pylon
15:17:12 <supermop_Home> glx you are supposed to but game actually draws vehicle, back, then front
15:17:15 <TrueBrain> this was such situation
15:17:51 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain that's an error by whoever drew that sprite
15:18:04 <TrueBrain> there is no front sprite matching that situation
15:18:46 <TrueBrain> I do not think there are enough sprites to cover all those situations
15:19:20 <LordAro> TrueBrain: _2TallTyler: dup of #8162
15:19:42 <TrueBrain> I know you love to close issues as dups, so I leave that you to :P
15:20:21 <TrueBrain> glx: but that makes the story even more confusing .. why does it draw pylons on the other side in back images to start with? :P
15:20:22 <glx> basically default tram sprites are wrong
15:20:33 <TrueBrain> I think we all fully agree there :D
15:21:15 <TrueBrain> I btw also think in the code "front" and "back" is flipped :P
15:21:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8839: You can't convert the road type, because the road belongs to the city https://git.io/JqZ0j
15:21:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8839: You can't convert the road type, because the road belongs to the city https://git.io/JqZ0j
15:21:20 <glx> but if a tram track grf provides correct ones the issue should disappear (unless there's another one)
15:21:29 <TrueBrain> the sorting is broken
15:21:45 <TrueBrain> back and front are identical in sorting priority
15:21:49 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain if it is as simple as that, that would make my day
15:21:50 <TrueBrain> there is no possible way that works well :P
15:22:45 <TrueBrain> glx: basically, I found two different issues: height of pylons is in all sets I tried higher than the code assumes they are
15:22:57 <TrueBrain> leading to sorting issues with the front sprite (called "back" in the code)
15:23:12 <TrueBrain> and the back sprite is sorted identical to front sprite, meaning it is always in front of everything on the tile
15:23:37 <TrueBrain> my fix there is bullshit, I now know, but it does work for "most tiles" :P
15:24:48 <supermop_Home> but currently the flume is drawn over the log and you can't see it at all
15:24:49 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: I do not know what I am looking at
15:25:18 <supermop_Home> rear sprite, vehicle, and front sprite (ideally)
15:26:21 <glx> I can't assemble them mentally :)
15:27:31 <TrueBrain> glx: should the back sprites draw pylons on the "front" side at all?
15:27:39 <TrueBrain> even if they would be overdrawn?
15:28:06 <glx> it's useless if they are overdrawn
15:28:09 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain i do for the bottom halves of pylons
15:28:19 <glx> really the original spliting is broken
15:28:42 <TrueBrain> glx: it is not the only thing that is broken, so I am trying to understand what the intentions are
15:28:59 <supermop_Home> as on a road going / on a \ tram tile, a bus might drive in front of one of the front pylons
15:29:20 <TrueBrain> owh, we have those situations too of
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15:29:38 <supermop_Home> that's why my pylons are split
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15:29:52 <TrueBrain> so my PR is somewhat correct, except that 1x1 is too narrow
15:29:57 <TrueBrain> it needs to be either 1x16 or 16x1
15:30:00 <supermop_Home> north corner pylon is always rear,
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15:30:09 <supermop_Home> south pylon is always front
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15:30:25 <TrueBrain> well, that is not what OpenGFX thinks :P :P :P
15:30:32 <TrueBrain> and you should try zbase for shit and giggles
15:30:33 <supermop_Home> east and west pylons are basically rear on the bottom and front on the top
15:30:35 <TrueBrain> I do not know what it is doing
15:30:40 <TrueBrain> but pylons are all over the place :D
15:30:53 <glx> I guess they all followed newgrf doc examples
15:31:01 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: okay, that makes sense to me
15:31:15 <TrueBrain> and the bug in OpenGFX is that it doesn't do the front ones correctly in all cases, I guess
15:31:24 <supermop_Home> i spent a lot of time in 2017 figuring out how to divide mine so traffic flowing perpendicular to the wires still worked with the poles
15:31:38 <TrueBrain> they just did the full pylons on both front and back, which is fine too
15:31:57 <supermop_Home> the ogfx sprites in the example are just too lazily drawn to be a good example
15:32:14 <TrueBrain> the whole first row basically is wrong
15:32:21 <supermop_Home> no offense to who drew them
15:32:23 <TrueBrain> they all miss the east and west pylon
15:32:26 <TrueBrain> if I understand you correctly
15:32:42 <TrueBrain> well, in fact, only the 4th row does it correct
15:33:36 <glx> yup 4th is correct it seems
15:33:54 <glx> all other should at lest include top of pylones
15:33:56 <TrueBrain> well, it misses the East pylons, but I guess that is a choice
15:34:09 <TrueBrain> bottom of pylons glx :)
15:34:14 <TrueBrain> that is what at least goes wrong now
15:34:39 <glx> ha yes bottom af front pylons
15:34:40 <TrueBrain> otherwise I am still not there yet :P
15:35:14 <glx> indeed they should include everything that shouldbe drawn in front of vehicle
15:35:34 <TrueBrain> the bottom left, for example, I think that would be drawn wrong, not?
15:35:45 <TrueBrain> as it is missing the bottom of the pylon for the west pylon
15:35:56 <TrueBrain> so you get the rear sprite, the vehicle, and then a missing piece of pylon?
15:36:10 <TrueBrain> (I am trying to understand this, so sorry if it sounds stupid :D)
15:36:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production and transported with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JLHah
15:37:12 <glx> ideally I think there should be 4 parts because it's an isometric view :)
15:37:14 <TrueBrain> pylons on all sets are higher than the bounding box
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15:37:35 <TrueBrain> causing the sorter to sort wrong depending on where the vehicle is :P
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15:37:59 <TrueBrain> I now just increased the height blindly
15:38:02 <TrueBrain> but it is a bit of a silly solution
15:38:11 <Samu> LordAro, the initialization of this window is buggy, or has some ugly behaviour, no wonder I was getting a division by 0
15:38:40 <Samu> I just made it return the percentage instead
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15:39:54 <Samu> I found that this->SetCargoFilterArray(); should happen before this->BuildSortIndustriesList();
15:40:15 <Samu> otherwise it's applying nonsense filters
15:40:22 <Samu> they're not even built yet
15:40:43 <Samu> but ok, now it works, hopefully
15:42:26 <TrueBrain> the code suggestions that "back" sprites come before "front" sprites, but OpenGFX clearly has them the other way around
15:42:32 <TrueBrain> now the question is .. is OpenGFX wrong?
15:42:48 <TrueBrain> as things are drawn with the same order atm, there is no way to tell
15:43:00 <glx> can't you check with original gfx ?
15:43:21 <TrueBrain> the 1995 game didn't have trams, did it?
15:44:04 <TrueBrain> also appears to do front first
15:44:21 <TrueBrain> bit difficult to tell
15:44:37 <TrueBrain> tramtracks.png does front first
15:44:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #8840: Can't convert roadtype when building drive-through road station https://git.io/JqZzK
15:45:12 <TrueBrain> so we indeed mix back/front in the code
15:45:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8841: Codechange: Add fast path to catenary drawing in MaskWireBits https://git.io/JqZz6
15:47:54 <TrueBrain> glx: ironically, those do appear to be drawn correctly
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15:48:24 <glx> I think code is based on these
15:48:45 <TrueBrain> so if OpenGFX would have copied that, it would have been fine :D
15:48:49 <TrueBrain> it is a bit more clear to me
15:49:07 <TrueBrain> lets try this PR again
15:51:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8841: Codechange: Add fast path to catenary drawing in MaskWireBits https://git.io/JqZz6
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16:03:54 <TrueBrain> some fix, new PR, new argumentation .. seems a bit more solid :P
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16:05:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8688: Feature: Hide block signal GUI by default https://git.io/JqZ2O
16:06:48 <TrueBrain> NO! DONT CLOSE IT! :D
16:07:10 <TrueBrain> but yeah ... taking a step back might be a good thing. Just make sure to come back! :D
16:09:38 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: I think that PR fixes the sorting issues, but I also think that your sprites won't work. I really think the front sprites should always show the bottom half of the pylons
16:09:50 <TrueBrain> but .. I now understand 20% of this
16:09:55 <TrueBrain> a bit more than this morning :D
16:11:04 <_2TallTyler> I'm not giving up! :) Just moving to a new PR for my next attempt to make reviewing easier.
16:12:47 <TrueBrain> _2TallTyler: tnx :D
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16:14:26 <_2TallTyler> Are you still planning a thorough GUI redesign for 1.12?
16:15:10 <_2TallTyler> I'm not happy with how removing signals requires toggling the Remove button in the parent toolbar. That's just weird...
16:16:44 <TrueBrain> tnx again glx , I think I understand it now a bit better :)
16:16:53 <TrueBrain> OpenGFX sprites really put me on the wrong track (hihi)
16:16:55 <Wuzzy> hi, how is the OpenSFX release going?
16:18:00 <glx> TrueBrain: opengfx has so many "broken" sprites
16:18:26 <TrueBrain> I just trusted it to be a bit better source; and I was like: 1 sprite with pylons on both sides? That is unsortable!
16:18:36 <TrueBrain> but .. if the idea was that both front and back sprites should have them
16:18:45 <TrueBrain> yeah .. that was misleading to me :D
16:19:17 <TrueBrain> but to find out the code mixes front and back variable names, is also not helping
16:19:40 <TrueBrain> I was like: I disable "front", but I still see all the front pylons being drawn .. wtf? :P
16:20:13 <glx> at least it should build fine ;)
16:21:05 <TrueBrain> glx: guess we can now also workflow-release-thing for grfcodec :P
16:21:28 <glx> I have so CI work already done IIRC
16:23:06 <TrueBrain> surprising to see how many games had their data in SGB2
16:23:13 <TrueBrain> and most I have read so far, did not have an offsite backup
16:23:18 <TrueBrain> or any form of disaster recovery plan
16:23:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ufiby commented on issue #8839: You can't convert the road type, because the road belongs to the city https://git.io/JqZ0j
16:23:47 <TrueBrain> well, it could have been our server too .. if we hadn't migrated to AWS
16:23:59 <TrueBrain> not sure how long it would have taken us to recover from an incident like that ..
16:24:04 <TrueBrain> I do not want to think about that
16:24:56 <glx> oh but my yml needs to be converted to "current" way ie manual vcpkg and cmake calls
16:25:30 <_2TallTyler> TrueBrain: I suspect any signal GUI changes will need to be part of your larger GUI redesign, so we'll likely be discussing mockups long before any code gets written
16:26:14 <_2TallTyler> I am happy to help discuss and implement that redesign, when the time comes
16:26:18 <TrueBrain> most of the GUIs I plan to do, are all the windows leading from the intro menu
16:26:30 <TrueBrain> so not the toolbars etc; at least, not in my scope currently
16:26:37 <TrueBrain> but making mockups etc is always a good thing
16:26:40 <TrueBrain> so we can run those in parallel
16:26:53 <TrueBrain> maybe also allows you to consider semaphores
16:26:57 <TrueBrain> and what their usage is :P
16:27:40 <_2TallTyler> Okay, I will start thinking about toolbars. Looks like I'll have to play some other games for inspiration :)
16:28:03 <TrueBrain> and to be clear, I am not planning on making it into a different game or anything. Just to streamline the GUIs a bit more, especially for new players
16:28:10 <glx> release workflow will have to wait for cpack implementation
16:28:12 <TrueBrain> to remove all the endless buttons and switches and toggles and etc etc
16:28:35 <_2TallTyler> Of course. There are a lot of buttons...
16:28:41 <TrueBrain> as example, how should a player know the difference between Game Options and Settings
16:28:45 <TrueBrain> without clicking them and reading it a bit
16:28:58 <TrueBrain> you need a lot of context to understand what belongs where
16:29:15 <glx> settings was called patches ;)
16:29:17 <TrueBrain> so just making a Options GUI where you can click through the different aspects
16:29:21 <TrueBrain> is much more sane in my world
16:29:44 <TrueBrain> and making that a bit more like other games like: Video Settings, Music Settings, Interface Settings, ...
16:29:50 <TrueBrain> is just a small step from there :)
16:30:04 <TrueBrain> these are the things I am considering
16:30:19 <TrueBrain> (similar issue with "Online Content", of we have N buttons
16:30:27 <TrueBrain> all leading to similar but not the same GUIs)
16:30:33 <glx> oh and music should have start/stop from main menu too ;)
16:30:49 <TrueBrain> and when you join a server you should not have to click another button first to download the NewGRFs
16:31:03 <TrueBrain> I cannot click Join, but I can click NewGRF Options
16:31:06 <TrueBrain> so ... why .. huh? :P
16:31:36 <TrueBrain> I just want to press Play, then the game says: you are missing NewGRFs, shall I download those for you good sir?
16:31:39 <TrueBrain> you say: YES PLEASE!
16:31:48 <TrueBrain> same with loading games
16:32:08 <TrueBrain> and don't get me started on Play Scenario and Play Heightmap .. can we hide that a bit more pretty please? :P
16:32:15 <TrueBrain> okay, this is now a rant. I will shut up :D
16:32:16 <glx> well you can't join when you miss some newgrf, and not all are available on BaNaNaS
16:32:20 <_2TallTyler> I would like to see fewer buttons in the main toolbar, but I understand that will be controversial. There are 30 buttons in the main toolbar!
16:32:44 <TrueBrain> glx: sure, so the game should guide you more in how to resolve that :)
16:32:47 <glx> but at least it could check if all are obtainable and allow to download missing and join
16:32:54 <TrueBrain> basically, OpenTTD is missing a "happy" flow
16:33:12 <TrueBrain> what it does a lot: NO! THIS IS NOT OUR WAY! Now you go think yourself how to resolve it!
16:33:19 <TrueBrain> instead of helping you :)
16:33:36 <TrueBrain> in general, players just want to press "Next" and get to where they want to go
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16:33:58 <TrueBrain> also: count how many buttons you have to click to start a new server
16:35:01 <TrueBrain> and okay, to continue this rant a bit: so, I want to start a game with NewGRF
16:35:05 <TrueBrain> so first I need to go to NewGRF
16:35:15 <TrueBrain> click them,add them
16:35:19 <TrueBrain> do I need to press Apply?
16:35:26 <TrueBrain> okay .. new game now
16:35:33 <TrueBrain> what NewGRFs did I click?
16:35:42 <TrueBrain> it is so utterly confusing, it even confuses me every time
16:35:52 <TrueBrain> that is the most insane workflow I know in OpenTTD really :P
16:36:31 <TrueBrain> especially that the apply changes button doesn't close the window
16:36:34 <TrueBrain> that is such poor feedback :D
16:36:56 <TrueBrain> (and the fact that closing the window ALSO applies, not revert, your changes)
16:37:22 <TrueBrain> I blame you for this rant _2TallTyler :P
16:38:01 <_2TallTyler> I'm currently ranting to my girlfriend about the 30 buttons in the main toolbar, so it goes both ways :P
16:38:14 <TrueBrain> wait, I am your girlfriend in this story?
16:38:40 <TrueBrain> I love the "settings" in the maintoolbar
16:38:44 <TrueBrain> like, there are 4 toggles for signs
16:38:48 <_2TallTyler> I will spare you my rant until I have a solution
16:38:50 <TrueBrain> who ... ever considers that useful?
16:39:00 <TrueBrain> why can't it be 1 window?
16:39:06 <TrueBrain> why does it have to take up so much space?!
16:39:16 <TrueBrain> also: Full Animation vs Full Detail, what is the difference?
16:39:42 <TrueBrain> and can I have "partial animation"
16:39:46 <TrueBrain> what does "full" mean?
16:39:51 <_2TallTyler> I wonder who uses the zoom in and zoom out buttons. Probably tablet players and whoever still has an apple mouse without a scroll wheel
16:39:55 <LordAro> i'm reasonably certain that full detail can be retired
16:40:04 <TrueBrain> does any of us know what it does? :P
16:40:05 <LordAro> it basically only removes streetlights
16:40:07 <TrueBrain> _2TallTyler: possibly :)
16:40:15 <peter1138> TrueBrain, fences. It turns off fences.
16:40:30 <peter1138> Haybales too? Nice.
16:40:31 <TrueBrain> I have 4x zoom 32bpp sprites
16:40:35 <TrueBrain> but we call the fences "detail"
16:40:40 <LordAro> i might be making that up
16:40:51 * LordAro goes back to shouting at NFS
16:40:54 <peter1138> LordAro, probably not :D
16:41:04 <_2TallTyler> Hay bales are not considered details, apparently
16:41:13 <peter1138> NFS is always finickity about user mappings for me.
16:41:20 <TrueBrain> what I never understood: so I disable Full Animation, but the Oil Wells still go up and down up and down
16:41:25 <_2TallTyler> Nor fences around farms, just rails
16:41:27 <LordAro> i have one mount that works fine
16:41:36 <LordAro> another identical mount does not
16:41:49 <TrueBrain> LordAro: sounds fun ...
16:41:50 <glx> isn't full animation only palette animation ?
16:41:57 <TrueBrain> but how do I know as player?
16:42:05 <TrueBrain> these terms are made by developers for developers :P
16:42:07 <LordAro> you turn it off and notice that the water has stopped moving
16:42:20 <TrueBrain> but why are both these options not in Game Options?
16:42:24 <TrueBrain> what makes them so special to be in the menu?
16:42:39 <TrueBrain> (the answer is properly again: because it was made for developers :P)
16:43:23 <TrueBrain> also, we have a GUI for transparency, and 2 options in the settings dropdown
16:43:27 <TrueBrain> what made those 2 more special? :D
16:43:49 <glx> transparency GUI is ugly ;)
16:43:50 <TrueBrain> sorry, I will stop now :P
16:43:58 <TrueBrain> glx: haha, that is a good argument as any :D
16:44:00 <LordAro> as long as you're writing this all down somewhere :p
16:44:11 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no need; it annoys me every time I open that menu
16:44:32 <TrueBrain> worked long enough with good UX designers to pick up on these things these days :)
16:44:39 <_2TallTyler> How about Story Book and Goal List each having their own buttons, and always being visible even without a game script which makes them clickable?
16:45:01 <TrueBrain> wait, where are those buttons?
16:45:16 <TrueBrain> I thikn I tried all maintoolbar buttons :P
16:45:28 <_2TallTyler> Between company information and graphs
16:45:36 <TrueBrain> ah, disabled for me
16:45:47 <_2TallTyler> But still taking up space!
16:45:56 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you've not touched on the scenario editor yet either :p
16:45:57 <TrueBrain> and nothing that tells me WHY they are disabled
16:46:01 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no no no no
16:46:56 <_2TallTyler> Why are town directory and industry directory so far apart and in different sections?
16:47:09 <_2TallTyler> Why does Subsidies have its own button?
16:47:20 <TrueBrain> another question I don't dare to ask but curious for the answer: why didn't we add trams (the vehicles) in basesets? Just a few?
16:47:29 <TrueBrain> I mean, tramtracks are in there, so why not trams?
16:47:49 <LordAro> TrueBrain: that would've involved devs actually thinking about gameplay
16:48:22 <_2TallTyler> Or separate buttons for company finances and company details? Could absolutely be combined into one button especially since you can also open finances by clicking on the bank balance in the status bar
16:48:25 <TrueBrain> I think you pointed to the problem in painfully clear wording :D
16:49:27 <_2TallTyler> I nominate Mop's Generic RV set as a source for trams :)
16:49:58 <TrueBrain> I get the argument: content should be in NewGRFs
16:50:06 <TrueBrain> but .. yeah .. Presets in 1.12
16:50:09 <TrueBrain> should solve a lot of that shit anyway
16:50:27 <TrueBrain> pretty excited about that feature, just thinking about the amount of work it is going to take
16:50:43 <_2TallTyler> No, I nominate those for base game trams
16:50:48 <TrueBrain> right .. I completely failed to jobhunt in a decent manner today, thank you for that OpenTTD :P
16:52:06 <_2TallTyler> I should probably do some real work too...
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16:54:10 <peter1138> Hmm, is <input form=...> supported everywhere these days...
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17:16:03 <glx> I think it should peter1138
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17:20:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ufiby commented on issue #8839: You can't convert the road type, because the road belongs to the city https://git.io/JqZ0j
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17:24:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 opened pull request #13: Add: [Actions] commit checker and CI build workflows https://git.io/JqZr4
17:28:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] LordAro commented on pull request #13: Add: [Actions] commit checker and CI build workflows https://git.io/JqZrM
17:28:04 <glx> hmm weird it didn't start the workflows
17:32:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 updated pull request #13: Add: [Actions] commit checker and CI build workflows https://git.io/JqZr4
17:32:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] LordAro approved pull request #13: Add: [Actions] commit checker and CI build workflows https://git.io/JqZrF
17:33:02 <LordAro> it only runs if there's an existing workflow in master
17:35:21 <TrueBrain> In master -> in any branch
17:38:25 <glx> oh it needs one in its own repo
17:39:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] glx22 merged pull request #13: Add: [Actions] commit checker and CI build workflows https://git.io/JqZr4
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17:41:46 <glx> it's with projects like grfcodec you notice benefits of caching :)
17:44:29 <glx> 68 vcpkg packages for macos, 70 for windows
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17:47:41 <glx> real build time is about 1/10 of run time
17:48:38 <LordAro> probably didn't need to bother with multiple MSVC CI's for grfcodec
17:49:00 <glx> oh just in case compiler does things different
17:49:02 <LordAro> (yes, i know i approved it)
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17:52:53 <glx> oh of course on non pull request runs it doesn't list the warnings
17:53:34 <peter1138> I should stop working.
17:53:41 <peter1138> But I keep having more work :(
17:54:59 <peter1138> Also just renewed my cycle club membership for another year... didn't get much use last year...
18:00:29 <LordAro> glx: reformat the whole thing with clang-format next :)
18:00:53 <glx> yeah there are 2 different coding styles
18:01:01 <glx> depending on who wrote code
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18:01:39 <TrueBrain> Somewhoconsideredspacestooexepensivetouse
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18:08:16 <peter1138> Dalestan and... someone else
18:08:56 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:24:30 <TrueBrain> hello mister andythenorth
19:25:02 <TrueBrain> shall we switch position tomorrow andythenorth ? I run your company, you find me a job? :D
19:32:39 <andythenorth> TrueBrain it's an interesting idea
19:32:43 <andythenorth> would you enjoy it?
19:32:53 <TrueBrain> I think we both won't enjoy it, honestly :P
19:32:59 <andythenorth> I mean...you could just do it
19:33:01 <andythenorth> then you'd have a job?
19:33:15 <TrueBrain> I aint working in bloody 3rd world country :P
19:33:43 <andythenorth> just work remote
19:33:50 <andythenorth> lots of paperwork
19:33:55 <andythenorth> then I get a job instead
19:34:07 <TrueBrain> I am good at paper work
19:34:27 <andythenorth> then you just get sent more, in my experience
19:35:20 <TrueBrain> for a few months I had to work on the principle: the first time someone emails me, it cannot be important (it was really really busy)
19:35:29 <TrueBrain> only when they send it to you a second time, it becomes important
19:35:31 <TrueBrain> sadly .. most people do :P
19:41:44 <andythenorth> if it's important they phone you
19:41:58 <TrueBrain> yeah .... but that takes even more time
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19:46:09 <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> shall we switch position tomorrow andythenorth ? I run your company, you find me a job? :D <- if you want my company might be looking for a developer in a while because one of them is wrecked :P
19:50:03 <andythenorth> I am hiring for account managers and secops
19:50:15 <andythenorth> the entire world is hiring for secops
19:51:24 <supermop_Home> well i could pretend that i know how to do that
19:52:31 <andythenorth> world lacks 3.6 million security engineers or something
19:52:38 <andythenorth> according to recruiting thing I found today
19:55:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8797: Wrong distance between signals with «Drag signal distance» https://git.io/JthDs
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20:08:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8840: Can't convert roadtype when building drive-through road station https://git.io/JqZzK
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20:31:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8749: WIP Feature: Setting to loop the same year forever https://git.io/JqZ9c
20:33:31 <andythenorth> so groundhog year when?
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20:35:59 <andythenorth> ^^ the comments on 8840 are incorrect and potentially derail a relatively new contributor
20:36:24 <andythenorth> but I can't really comment as I have already been forum warned for my responses to LC and I don't want to inflame the situation
20:40:51 <TrueBrain> it is a very weird reply to a question not asked :)
20:41:08 <LordAro> mark it as off topic :p
20:47:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/JqZHn
20:48:10 <frosch123> looks like the new hardware mostly works
20:48:37 <frosch123> it's scary to have a webcam, which allows to recognise someone :p
20:48:58 <frosch123> ottd compile seems to take about 28s now
20:49:06 <frosch123> i think it was like 90s on the old machine :p
20:49:15 <TrueBrain> that is a good upgrade :D
20:49:22 <TrueBrain> got an AMD GPU while at it? :P
20:49:43 <frosch123> just mainboard+cpu+ram+webcam
20:49:53 <frosch123> i like to add "webcam" to that combo :p
20:51:45 <frosch123> the webcam as also green at first btw... there was a color-format setting, which i had to change to rgb
20:52:02 <TrueBrain> so you are now in colour? :D
20:52:42 <frosch123> it's a 30eur webcam, but colour balance looks fine
20:52:57 <frosch123> i am neither pale nor bloody red
20:55:08 <frosch123> oh, you worked on the tram catenary :) i have a stash for that
20:55:34 <TrueBrain> I am very curious if I am right that back/front is reversed in the code :P
20:55:42 <frosch123> yes, i also found that
20:56:41 <TrueBrain> good; means it makes a bit more sense
20:57:53 <TrueBrain> next would be that OpenGFX really screwed up the front sprites .. I hope I got that part right too :D
20:59:52 <glx> [17:23:05] <TrueBrain> surprising to see how many games had their data in SGB2 <-- haha after seeing the news on the TV I understand what you were talking about :)
20:59:53 <frosch123> but i did not check whether ottd just swaps the sprite indicies
21:00:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: to me it seems to be that way, that we can just safely rename the variables and that it is fine
21:01:05 <heffer> Thanks for the .desktop installation support that landed in Git recently. Love the CMake transition :D
21:01:25 <glx> does it work as expected ?
21:01:35 <glx> (because it's not really tested)
21:01:41 <heffer> Building test packages right now and will report back
21:02:28 <glx> I just quickly tested installation via MSVC, but it's not the real thing
21:05:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8841: Codechange: Add fast path to catenary drawing in MaskWireBits https://git.io/JqZQB
21:06:45 <peter1138> Yeah but how much faster!
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21:06:54 <TrueBrain> first crash frosch12 ? :D
21:07:03 <frosch12> no, just german internet
21:07:16 <frosch12> either it's slow, it's broken, or both
21:07:38 <frosch12> maybe it's routed via ovh
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21:11:53 <heffer> glx: it works as intended
21:13:56 <TrueBrain> anyway, frosch12 , really curious how far off my solution is to yours :P
21:14:33 <frosch12> they are very different :)
21:14:48 <frosch12> you fell for the myth that there should be any relation between sprite extends and bounding boxes
21:14:54 <heffer> If I had one more wish it would be addressing appdata.xml upstream (https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6490) Maybe the sentiment has changed since appdata.xml is being read by most major distributions now :D
21:14:57 <frosch12> that assumption is very common, and very wrong :p
21:15:14 <heffer> Currently I make my own in the package spec file
21:15:19 <TrueBrain> frosch12: depends on what you mean
21:15:29 <TrueBrain> I dunno what "sprite extends" are :P
21:15:38 <TrueBrain> I just have been fighting the sorter :D
21:17:42 <frosch12> yuo tried to make the bounding box as tall as the sprite looks like :) but that is no requirement at all, and usually misleading
21:17:55 <TrueBrain> it was just too small for the vehicle
21:18:25 <TrueBrain> I just do not know how you normally tune that
21:18:45 <TrueBrain> I did not know if our sorter picked the center of the box or not
21:21:32 <TrueBrain> mostly I noticed how little info I have :D
21:21:47 <TrueBrain> like now vehicles of 14 height go correct in the sorter, I think
21:21:51 <TrueBrain> just no clue if that is good or bad or shrug :P
21:25:04 <frosch12> in both cases the back sprite uses a 2x2 bounding box in the back
21:25:31 <TrueBrain> yeah, which is "the front"
21:25:34 <frosch12> in the first case the front sprite uses a 2x2 bounding box in the front, in the second case it uses a flat 16x16 above the vehicles
21:25:35 <TrueBrain> owh, you swapped it
21:25:52 <TrueBrain> a 1x1 was enough, I found, for the back
21:26:13 <frosch12> there are three "if" cases
21:26:19 <TrueBrain> what do those other parameters do in the front?
21:26:28 <frosch12> the first "if" needs no swapping
21:26:33 <frosch12> the other two i have to check
21:26:51 <TrueBrain> "0, 0, BB_HEIGHT_UNDER_BRIDGE" <- that part
21:27:03 <frosch12> TrueBrain: the first 3 parameters define the x/y/z max corner of the box
21:27:11 <frosch12> the latter 3 defnie the x/y/t min corner of the box
21:27:47 <frosch12> that way you can position the bounding box arbitrarily without changing the position of the sprite
21:28:46 <TrueBrain> but okay, our solutions there do not differ that much
21:28:56 <TrueBrain> and that indirectly also means you agree OpenGFX is broken :D
21:30:46 <TrueBrain> why did oyu go for a 2x2 btw?
21:30:56 <frosch12> ogfx is not particulary broken
21:31:06 <frosch12> it's just the spec that is broken
21:31:20 <frosch12> the left and right pillar are neither front nor back
21:31:40 <frosch12> the west pillar is in front of vehicles from NW, but behind vehicles from SW
21:31:58 <frosch12> we can also fix that by using 4 bounding boxes
21:32:16 <TrueBrain> I tried rotating bounding boxes :P I failed horribly code-wise
21:32:53 <frosch12> i picked 2x2 on first try. i did not check how large vehicles are
21:33:10 <TrueBrain> ah :) I was just like: it needs to be something north of any vehicle :D
21:33:21 <TrueBrain> so for most sets, up to 3x3 is fine
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21:37:17 <TrueBrain> funny that the first if-statement is correct .. :D
21:37:28 <TrueBrain> well, given they are both sorted the same .. back .. front .. doesn't really have a meaning
21:37:41 <TrueBrain> why wasn't this build like elrails, any idea? Like pylons and wires, instead of back/front?
21:38:44 <frosch12> i checked the constants against tramtracks.png, they are both wrong in sprites.h and road_land.h
21:40:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8841: Codechange: Add fast path to catenary drawing in MaskWireBits https://git.io/JqZz6
21:41:21 <TrueBrain> frosch12: how about the BACK_WIRES_STRAIGHT?
21:41:23 <TrueBrain> those 2 are correct?
21:42:04 <TrueBrain> at least something correct :D
21:42:06 <frosch12> looks like back is always before front
21:42:48 <frosch12> i am trying the SubSprite thing, maybe it looks better
21:43:16 <frosch12> 10 years of magic :)
21:43:25 <TrueBrain> but I am curious about this :D
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21:49:04 <TrueBrain> your bounding boxes still glithc :(
21:49:49 <TrueBrain> owh, no, I was being an idiot
21:50:30 <TrueBrain> why is that variable called "backpole"
21:50:41 <TrueBrain> shows the intention, but ..
21:51:06 <frosch12> i added the subsprite magic
21:51:12 <frosch12> needs more testing :)
21:51:35 <TrueBrain> wtf is this, lol :P
21:51:58 <frosch12> that magic was inverted for half-tile slopes, but is now also used for bridge pillars
21:52:05 <LordAro> that is decidedly magic
21:52:28 <TrueBrain> frosch12: with your magic, OpenGFX is still suppose to go wrong, right?
21:52:36 <frosch12> whenever the baseset or newgrf define a single sprite, but ottd really wants 2, we split the sprite in the middle and draw the halfes in different boxes
21:52:56 <frosch12> TrueBrain: ogfx should look fine now
21:53:38 <TrueBrain> okay, so I want to understand this, so first the front, as that seems easier
21:53:49 <TrueBrain> why 1+bridge thingy?
21:53:55 <TrueBrain> especially "1 + " part?
21:54:09 <TrueBrain> owh, to make it 1 in height
21:54:13 <TrueBrain> at the height of the bridge
21:54:26 <TrueBrain> why does that matter .. hmm
21:54:39 <frosch12> it's just a height that is above vehicles
21:54:53 <TrueBrain> I need to know how we sort :D
21:54:57 <TrueBrain> is it done in the center of the box?
21:54:57 <frosch12> essentially the tram wires are now drawn like a bridge floor
21:55:39 <TrueBrain> or does it do a corner vs corner sorting ..
21:56:06 <frosch12> there are multiple strategies, but corner vs corners is the first and best one
21:56:27 <TrueBrain> okay .. as I was assuming center, and then your change makes no sense to me :D
21:56:34 <TrueBrain> as that should still be the same spot to sort on :D
21:56:41 <frosch12> so if the front sprite has zmin above the vehicle, zmax below the bridge, and zmin also above the other sprites on the tile, it works
21:57:02 <TrueBrain> okay, and that makes the assumption it is mostly wires, I guess
21:57:06 <frosch12> note, how the back pillars have zmax where the front's zmin starts
21:57:19 <frosch12> so that back and front bounding boxes do not overlap
21:57:35 <TrueBrain> that is the biggest part of the fix :P
21:57:41 <TrueBrain> as anything else NewGRF people can fix :D :D
21:57:53 <TrueBrain> I love how you let the double spaces after "back," in
21:57:57 <TrueBrain> true sign of good copy/paste
21:58:38 <TrueBrain> its funny, I was trying to change the bounding box based on roadbits etc
21:58:42 <TrueBrain> your solution .. requires .. less math :D
21:59:54 <TrueBrain> okay, and for the back sprites, you basically make them 3 sprites, one on NE, one on NW, and one on N
22:00:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8840: Can't convert roadtype when building drive-through road station https://git.io/JqZzK
22:00:38 <TrueBrain> from 0 to 6 in height, so indeed just below the wires
22:00:50 <TrueBrain> what does SubSprite do exactly?
22:01:10 <frosch12> TrueBrain: clipping, like at the border of a viewport
22:01:31 <TrueBrain> owh, so you really make 3 sprites out of it
22:01:49 <TrueBrain> so basically you make a N / W / E pillar sprite?
22:02:22 <frosch12> "west" is the sprite clipped at x<=-8, north is x=-8..8, east is x>=8
22:02:35 <frosch12> yes, we do the same for bridge pillars
22:02:53 <frosch12> bridge pillars also include front and back pillar in one sprite, because ttd did not have slopes under bridges
22:02:55 <TrueBrain> funny, how we earlier today assumes that should be done by the front sprite :D
22:03:06 <frosch12> ottd splits the sprite in the middle and draws the pillars at different length
22:03:27 <frosch12> it looks weird for bridges which draw big pillars, but they look broken in some case or another anyway
22:03:38 <TrueBrain> and vehicles should always be below bridge height, so the sorting should be fine there
22:03:59 <frosch12> TrueBrain: tramtrack.png clearly puts 3 pillars in the back sprite, and 1 in the front sprite
22:04:05 <frosch12> that is as much spec as you will get :p
22:04:15 <TrueBrain> can I just say: it is horrible
22:04:22 <TrueBrain> but I knew that when I started at this :D
22:04:27 <frosch12> i think it's pikka's fault :)
22:04:36 <TrueBrain> but okay, so I was working in the right direction here .. just I did not know you could raise the bounding boxes :P
22:04:44 <frosch12> iirc pikka drew the first tram catenary
22:04:57 <frosch12> and noone notices that west/east pillars are neither back nor front
22:05:11 <TrueBrain> you also somewhat "fix" zbase
22:05:14 <TrueBrain> it is still horrible
22:06:00 <frosch12> ah, i got the sizes wrong
22:06:03 <TrueBrain> it only still breaks in zbase with bridge slop eup
22:06:10 <frosch12> i thought a tile was 32 pixels, but it is actually 64
22:06:12 <TrueBrain> there is a pillar completely misplaced
22:06:15 <frosch12> so i'll change the 8 into 16
22:06:45 <TrueBrain> so why 16, and not 32?
22:06:46 <frosch12> bridge catenary is a different function
22:06:58 <TrueBrain> zbase is also broken in master, to be clear
22:07:01 <TrueBrain> it just looks horrible :P
22:07:05 <frosch12> distance between west and north corner is 32
22:07:18 <frosch12> i want to split the sprite in the middle of the west/east edge
22:07:37 <frosch12> though i guess i could also go for 3/4
22:07:40 <TrueBrain> you do have to find a better solution to "INF"
22:07:48 <frosch12> then sprites can visually extend into the tile somewhat
22:08:01 <frosch12> TrueBrain: INF is copy&paste :)
22:08:03 <TrueBrain> yeah, but there is always a small part that back sprites will never render, right?
22:08:12 <TrueBrain> frosch12: ugh .. doesn't make it better, but okay :P
22:09:03 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, SubSprite are the offsets
22:09:11 <TrueBrain> it is not -16 bottom, but Sprite bottom - 16?
22:09:25 <TrueBrain> or how to read negative values?
22:09:39 <frosch12> 0 is the north corner
22:09:51 <frosch12> -32 is west corner, 32 is east corner
22:10:22 <TrueBrain> why isn't 0 the center shrug
22:10:51 <TrueBrain> so { -32, 0, 32, 32 } is the whole sprite?
22:11:22 <TrueBrain> btw, you have some extra spaces after { in SubSprite ctors :P
22:11:46 <frosch12> ground sprites are {-32, 0, 31, 32} or so, but the borders are a bit fuzzy since more zoom levels
22:12:27 <TrueBrain> ah, okay, so the 3 subsprites together make the full sprite again
22:12:30 <TrueBrain> I am getting there :D
22:13:01 <frosch12> i do not know about obiwans :)
22:13:12 <TrueBrain> that should be fine
22:13:46 <TrueBrain> if people make catenaries that go into the sprite itself, as such that they would "touch" vehicles, things might break
22:13:52 <TrueBrain> but .. that is shooting yourself in the foot and complaining
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22:14:17 <TrueBrain> owh, I was tihnking the bounding box was over the whole NW, but it is only W
22:14:19 <TrueBrain> as you offset it again
22:14:26 <TrueBrain> well .. offset .. it is a weird offset :P
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22:14:40 <TrueBrain> you would think "w" is maintained
22:15:18 <TrueBrain> the comment is more clear
22:15:21 <TrueBrain> than the variable name
22:15:22 <TrueBrain> which is impressive
22:15:37 <TrueBrain> w is the positive offset, bb_offset_x is the negative offset
22:15:57 <TrueBrain> and dz vs bb_offset_z :D
22:16:22 <TrueBrain> okay, so if the west pylon is in front of the vehicle, you draw the first 16 pixels (from left to right) of the sprite
22:16:37 <TrueBrain> in front of the vehicle
22:16:47 <TrueBrain> okay, I think I understand this a bit more now :D Tnx frosch12 :)
22:16:56 <TrueBrain> your code works btw, in all test cases I created
22:17:33 <frosch12> i just adjusted some numbers and comments
22:17:49 <frosch12> do you still have issues with bridges?
22:18:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/JqZFv
22:18:53 <TrueBrain> it is not only bridges
22:19:35 <TrueBrain> I did not look at the sprites, but it appears that W and E pillars are in front too, but at a wrong offset
22:20:58 <TrueBrain> abase has the same issue :P
22:21:00 <TrueBrain> (had to double-check)
22:21:38 <frosch12> how does the new "hardware acceleration" switch interact with the "-v" command line option?
22:22:38 <frosch12> ok, i used -v to make bounding boxes work :)
22:22:56 <TrueBrain> thisone is funny too :D
22:23:29 <frosch12> ah, bounding box is wrong on slopes
22:23:48 <frosch12> i draw them only at the bottom level :p
22:24:21 <TrueBrain> yeah ... those sprites do not agree with the "specs" :D
22:24:39 <TrueBrain> when I tram turns around, it leaves the tile btw .. looks really bad :P
22:25:08 <TrueBrain> but that is a problem for another day
22:25:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8841: Codechange: Add fast path to catenary drawing in MaskWireBits https://git.io/JqZFE
22:27:04 <frosch12> don't trust the vehicle sprite offsets in zbase :)
22:27:24 <frosch12> oh, tram is not baseset
22:27:29 <frosch12> so, whatever tram set you use
22:27:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, all trams run off the track, basically
22:27:52 <TrueBrain> only when turning around on a dead-end
22:28:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8841: Codechange: Add fast path to catenary drawing in MaskWireBits https://git.io/JqZz6
22:28:18 <TrueBrain> so I am not sure the tram-sets are to blame, honestly :)
22:28:49 <TrueBrain> I do not want to be in that tram :D
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22:30:36 <TrueBrain> anyway, your code looks a lot better from what I can test/see
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22:32:06 <TrueBrain> even wires are properly sorted now in all cases I can see
22:32:11 <TrueBrain> which is a bit of a change :P
22:34:36 <TrueBrain> could only produce the issues with slopes with CTZR or what is it called
22:34:42 <frosch12> the wires is now at the top of the slope, and the pillar height follows the slope
22:35:02 <frosch12> slopes showed issues with original graphics :)
22:35:53 <TrueBrain> owh, that is what they meant with TILE_HEIGHT + BB_HEIGHT_UNDER_BRIDGE
22:37:24 <frosch12> do you know about Ctrl+B ?
22:37:41 <frosch12> vehicle sprites should be centered with their BB
22:38:02 <TrueBrain> diagonal, this bb is too small :D
22:38:14 <frosch12> you can use the DebugVehicles grf :)
22:38:23 <frosch12> TrueBrain: size does not matter :)
22:38:39 <TrueBrain> if we sort corner-to-corner, it does, doesn't it?
22:38:46 <frosch12> damn, i compeltely forgot about debugvehicles... i made that grf for just this
22:39:13 <frosch12> TrueBrain: yes, but when stuff starts overlapping it gets worse :)
22:39:45 <frosch12> sprite sorting is impossible, you have to pick the least glitchy option, there is no option with no glitches
22:39:46 <TrueBrain> sorting by center is easier for many things
22:39:50 <TrueBrain> but makes things easier impossible :D
22:40:02 <TrueBrain> Unity does, by default I think, center-sorting for isometric
22:40:06 <TrueBrain> quickly you run into issues :P
22:40:15 <TrueBrain> especially if a sprite is more than 1 tile
22:41:14 <TrueBrain> anyway, that image I showed you, the BB is in the center
22:41:23 <TrueBrain> but where the sprite overlaps before the BB hits the slope
22:41:25 <TrueBrain> the slope is sorted wrong
22:41:37 <frosch12> but different function :)
22:42:01 <TrueBrain> the pylons are hanging in mid-air in general
22:42:17 <TrueBrain> it looks terrible with OpenGFX, bridges and catenaries
22:44:29 <TrueBrain> funny, did not expect we could salvage those "back" sprites from OpenGFX
22:44:38 <TrueBrain> as I wrote in a comment, "but possible OpenTTD has some magic here"
22:46:28 <TrueBrain> frosch12: maybe also add a small comment why front is on top of the tracks
22:46:44 <TrueBrain> especially as front vs wires is a bit messy in the code
22:48:23 <TrueBrain> and one thing that is still a bit odd about _road_backpole_sprites_1 .. in your commit, the higher values are now "back", while for SPR_TRAMWAY_BACK_WIRES_SLOPED the lower value is "back"
22:52:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8843: Fix #8647: road catenary did not draw front/back sprites in the front/back as it should. https://git.io/JqZNT
22:52:29 <frosch12> don't read :p i'll push again shortly
22:52:55 <TrueBrain> linking future issues, nice!
22:55:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8843: Fix #8647: road catenary did not draw front/back sprites in the front/back as it should. https://git.io/JqZNT
22:56:11 <frosch12> added a comment, better now?
22:56:23 <TrueBrain> so you are sure about the naming of either _road_backpole_sprites_1 and SPR_TRAMWAY_BACK_WIRES_SLOPED ?
22:56:40 <TrueBrain> how I read it, sprites are front back back front back front :D
22:56:55 <TrueBrain> euh: back front back front front back
22:56:57 <TrueBrain> but who is counting
22:57:00 <frosch12> look at media/baseset/openttd/tramtracks.png :)
22:57:04 <frosch12> the sprites are numbered
22:57:12 <TrueBrain> I cannot understand what is a front or back sprite thre :P
22:57:28 <frosch12> 3 pillars are back, 1 pillar + wires are front
22:57:54 <frosch12> ok, some pillars are also drawn in front :p
22:58:10 <frosch12> which will continue to glitch :)
22:58:27 <frosch12> so, i guess wires/no-wires is the rule for front/back
22:58:31 <TrueBrain> okay, so it really is back front back front front back
22:58:49 <TrueBrain> why do people make these kind of messes
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22:59:02 <TrueBrain> sure it made sense at the time :P
22:59:19 <frosch12> there are a lot more front sprites than back sprites
23:00:09 <TrueBrain> I still don't get why it just isn't pillars and wires :D
23:00:12 <TrueBrain> that feels a lot more sane
23:00:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8843: Fix #8647: road catenary did not draw front/back sprites in the front/back as it should. https://git.io/JqZNg
23:00:36 <TrueBrain> anyway, supermop_Home should be happy with this :D
23:00:38 <frosch12> no idea, that was before my time :)
23:00:47 <TrueBrain> might mean he needs to redraw a few sprites of his, but at least the rules are clear now
23:00:48 <frosch12> you should know better, you were active at that time :p
23:01:01 <TrueBrain> I seriously did not know we had Trams before NRT
23:01:10 <TrueBrain> pretty sure I ignored most of that
23:01:24 <TrueBrain> either because I was annoyed as fuck that trams were not going in basesets
23:01:28 <TrueBrain> or because it is NewGRF bla
23:01:50 <TrueBrain> but up till today I have been thinking the last 6 months that NRT gave trams :P
23:03:06 <TrueBrain> and tnx again for explaining frosch12 :)
23:03:21 <TrueBrain> right .. tomorrow I hope to see if I can make more than one eints projects for us
23:03:30 <TrueBrain> I would like to have Steam stuff translated before the 1st :)
23:04:46 <frosch12> TrueBrain: sorry,, i played widelands last weekend, so i procrastinated my stash :)
23:05:16 <TrueBrain> I enjoyed looking at this part of OpenTTD, so that is okay :)
23:05:34 <TrueBrain> starting to understand the frustration people have regarding NewGRFs and specs and everything :P
23:07:01 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am happy you are trying to bring #8468 to a conclusion, but I am scared only reading the feedback on your comments
23:07:05 <TrueBrain> I wonder if doing it yourself isn't faster :P
23:07:15 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh, absolutely
23:08:13 <TrueBrain> now zstd, what to do with that for 1.11 .. on one hand it would be nice to have
23:08:20 <TrueBrain> on the other, the network protocol changes are bigger than I expected
23:08:32 <TrueBrain> so maybe zstd1.3 support would be easier
23:08:43 <TrueBrain> or wait till 1.12 / 1.11.1
23:11:58 <TrueBrain> also something to look into tomorrow I guess
23:13:46 <frosch12> it's funny how some sprites on tracktracks.png make no sense, but those are also the unused sprites :p
23:13:59 <TrueBrain> why am I not surprised :P
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23:15:55 <TrueBrain> sometimes it feels these things are brought to 90% completeness
23:16:00 <TrueBrain> and someone goes: I AM DONE, drops mic
23:16:20 <TrueBrain> I can understand it btw, I think I do the same from time to time
23:16:26 <TrueBrain> just years later you completely regret that :P
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23:17:19 <_dp_> TrueBrain, what on earth did you expect if one byte is bigger than that? :p
23:17:51 <TrueBrain> "that" , I love the clear reference to .. what exactly? :P
23:18:16 <_dp_> network protocol changes
23:18:25 <TrueBrain> holy crap ... my mind-reading machine really is not working
23:18:27 <_dp_> in that pr network part is like 5 lines
23:18:34 <_dp_> everything else is some parsing
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23:21:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8843: Fix #8647: road catenary did not draw front/back sprites in the front/back as it should. https://git.io/JqZNT
23:21:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed issue #8647: Road and Tramway Catenary Drawn Incorrectly / Unsorted https://git.io/JtALK
23:21:45 <frosch12> i did not know you could also write "closes #123" in the PR description
23:23:19 <TrueBrain> since when is email faster than DorpsGek
23:23:19 <TrueBrain> don't think there is anybody home
23:23:19 <TrueBrain> owh, I am the one that is not home
23:23:20 <TrueBrain> that was a huge delay
23:23:22 <TrueBrain> frosch12: dwfreed told me
23:23:22 <TrueBrain> I do not know how he knows these things
23:24:14 <TrueBrain> this is a PR closing another PR LordAro
23:24:31 <LordAro> well, basically the same thing
23:24:40 <TrueBrain> yeah, but not documented, as far as I could find
23:24:46 <LordAro> PRs are just issues with a branch :p
23:24:59 <TrueBrain> it is also not showing up they are linked on the right
23:25:03 <TrueBrain> where it is for issues
23:25:11 <TrueBrain> so it is a bit ... vague, but it works
23:25:14 <LordAro> yeah, i'm not sure what that bit is
23:25:19 <LordAro> it appeared quite recently
23:25:25 <LordAro> i suspect it's an unfinished feature
23:25:26 <TrueBrain> has been there for a while
23:25:32 <TrueBrain> just .. nobody ever looks at it :P
23:25:41 <LordAro> not more than a few months, afaik?
23:25:51 <TrueBrain> " few month" is a lifetime for GH
23:26:00 <TrueBrain> so that depends on your definition of "quite recent"
23:27:03 <TrueBrain> a year is "quite recent" in your definition
23:27:06 <TrueBrain> I WILL REMEMBER THIS! :P
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23:29:16 <LordAro> February 2020 was only a month ago
23:29:24 <TrueBrain> I know how you feel :P
23:29:46 <TrueBrain> that the NewGRF scanner is smooth, is so strange
23:30:09 <glx> I should launch openttd to see it
23:36:07 <peter1138> Smooth? I only see sharp edges.
23:36:26 <TrueBrain> take your glasses off
23:36:28 <TrueBrain> solves the issue for me
23:36:31 <TrueBrain> on that note, sleepy time
23:37:02 <peter1138> The main issue with the scanner is the initial "boot up" scan, where you have the white screen of non-responsiveness for a few seconds...
23:37:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/JqZxh
23:37:46 <frosch12> TrueBrain: next challenge: content download gui :p
23:38:33 <glx> well mouse still jumps in debug build
23:39:08 <TrueBrain> frosch12: yup .. but I have another fix for that is mind :p
23:39:31 <TrueBrain> glx: yup, needs another set of fixes, but also doable :p
23:39:54 <glx> but the numbers are smoother
23:40:09 <peter1138> Also, just closing the NewGRF Settings window causes the game to freeze for a couple of seconds (when there are NewGRFs in the list)
23:40:12 <TrueBrain> Try generating a large map :D
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23:41:08 <TrueBrain> peter1138: yup, lot of places have blocking code.. we need to address all of them over time :D
23:42:00 <peter1138> I wonder if I still have those old stress test maps...
23:42:36 <peter1138> Still got Wentbourne. That's actually playable these days.
23:42:48 <peter1138> Simulation rate: 13 frames/s
23:43:00 <TrueBrain> Basically, code needs to release the game state if they don't need it more .. but a slow process :D
23:44:29 <peter1138> Cool, 60-70 ms for graphics rendering :D
23:46:18 <peter1138> Also, nasty alignment of the tick on those menu settings TB was mumbling about earlier :D
23:47:23 <peter1138> Oops, I enabled Double-size and the settings window is too big. The title bar is off the top of the screen.
23:47:44 <peter1138> Oh yes, delete works.
23:53:07 <LordAro> mm, it really shouldn't do that
23:53:11 <LordAro> i've done that a few times
23:53:26 <LordAro> it's particularly tricky on the main menu, because you can't dleete that window
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