IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-12-27
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00:03:17 <TrueBrain> you have the weirdest approve messages lately LordAro :P
00:04:01 <TrueBrain> almost 2 pages of pull requests, w00p
00:06:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8438: Codechange: Replace FOR_VEHICLE_ORDERS with range-based for loops https://git.io/JLMDS
00:10:31 <LordAro> i've done most of the easy reorganisation-related tidyups
00:10:45 <LordAro> a few more to do, then i'd actually have to think about it
00:10:47 <TrueBrain> how many commits?! Holy crap :D
00:11:53 <LordAro> there were more than 50 :p
00:12:00 <LordAro> i've squashed a load together
00:12:59 <TrueBrain> damn, you have been bsuy
00:13:00 <LordAro> there's only a very small number that could be pulled out and PR'd separately
00:13:23 <glx> static_assert is one of them
00:13:50 <LordAro> again, no idea if i've done it right - there was some overlap between what JGR did and what master/Peter did (saving of deques & std::strings, mostly)
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00:16:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8439: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLMy3
00:17:11 <FLHerne> Hey, that's a neat idea
00:17:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7679: Content download update downloads all versions, not just required/latest https://git.io/fj9xU
00:18:45 <LordAro> think the values need some tuning
00:18:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7680: Fix #7679: Check version when comparing scripts https://git.io/JLMy8
00:18:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7680: Fix #7679: Check version when comparing scripts https://git.io/fjHIy
00:19:07 <LordAro> 24 bridge length for a 20k city isn't *that* big
00:19:07 <TrueBrain> think this has the same issue as the other town improvement suggestsions
00:19:20 <LordAro> especially if you add newgrfs
00:19:23 <TrueBrain> they are all nice etc .. but ... doing this kind of tuning hardcoded in C++ is just asking for a constant stream of PRs :)
00:19:45 <TrueBrain> (and people disagreeing on the values :P)
00:19:55 <TrueBrain> can't we easily delegate this stuff to NewGRFs?
00:20:09 <LordAro> still though, the phrase "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" comes to mind
00:20:24 <LordAro> it's all very well planning to farm this out to grf/gs/whatever, but that might take years
00:20:33 <TrueBrain> yeah, but where is the balance?
00:20:50 <TrueBrain> he came up with another "solution" for the same problem
00:20:58 <TrueBrain> how do we rate one over the other?
00:21:13 <TrueBrain> (honest question btw, as I do not know)
00:21:40 <TrueBrain> I hope a compiler optimizes this correctly :P
00:21:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLMya
00:22:15 <LordAro> i suspect number of buildings rather than population might work better
00:22:23 <TrueBrain> and there we go ;) :P
00:22:25 <LordAro> though i don't think that count is stored anywhere...
00:22:43 <TrueBrain> I don't mean this in a bad way btw, but this is so much up for taste and tuning, and thinkering
00:22:59 <TrueBrain> sure, this PR doesn't hurt anyone in any way .. but where is the line :)
00:24:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLMyi
00:24:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8438: Codechange: Replace FOR_VEHICLE_ORDERS with range-based for loops https://git.io/JLMyP
00:25:33 <LordAro> but... the work is there and has been (more or less) done
00:25:50 <LordAro> TrueBrain: but it looks so nice!
00:26:00 <TrueBrain> yes, and there is the constant friction :)
00:26:14 <TrueBrain> 7745 shows immediately that people want more changes after that
00:27:06 <TrueBrain> in case of #8439, I would say: let 2TallTayler and andy fight out what the algorithm should be and get it in there
00:27:16 <TrueBrain> small, doesn't hurt anyone, and nobody would notice, not really
00:27:45 <TrueBrain> but I already see the pitchforks being picked up because 7745 should be fine too then :P
00:28:41 <TrueBrain> all I notice that I struggle with these; mostly as those who are interested in making this moddable, don't know how, and those that know how, are too busy doing other (more important) stuff :)
00:28:53 <TrueBrain> and of course, we have all the people on the side yelling left or right :P
00:32:21 <TrueBrain> difficult to guard against past mistakes and prevent just stacking on stacking on stacking of fixes, patches, workarounds, etc :D
00:33:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8438: Codechange: Replace FOR_VEHICLE_ORDERS with range-based for loops https://git.io/JLMDS
00:34:59 <TrueBrain> I do honestly wonder what is needed to make this possible in NewGRF/GS .. might be fun to just draw that up, to see how much work it would be
00:36:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLMST
00:37:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLMSY
00:37:59 <TrueBrain> I am in no state to review it; but my OCD triggers just fine :P
00:38:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8438: Codechange: Replace FOR_VEHICLE_ORDERS with range-based for loops https://git.io/JLMSO
00:41:18 <TrueBrain> it should be called FreeTowns
00:41:26 <TrueBrain> they have been put in a box long enough :P
00:44:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLMST
00:48:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I guess the main reason I am more fine with the bridge PR is because it doesn't add more settings
00:49:13 <TrueBrain> I guess as soon as settings are added, it should in fact be a mod
00:49:27 <glx> there are too many settings already
00:49:38 <TrueBrain> Yes, and that is exactly the line ;)
00:49:50 <TrueBrain> It could, but it would not improve the game
00:50:20 <TrueBrain> We can have a single opinionated town AI :D
00:50:48 <TrueBrain> Having it all configurable and shit.. that should go in mods
00:50:56 <glx> I think GS can already "manage" towns if they want to
00:52:07 <TrueBrain> Slowly I am getting it more clear how to describe why one is a bad idea and the other is not :D
00:52:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JLMS5
00:52:49 <glx> it should be possible to hook some callbacks in current town layout code
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02:05:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLM7s
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03:42:22 <supermop_Home> sometimes a town is built on a tiny island (like ~6 tiles), and a longish 6-8 tile bridge to the shore is the only way it can grow at all
04:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> max length could depend on bridge max speed
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08:58:16 <andythenorth> someone give TB his meds pls
08:59:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDiy
09:00:11 <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro , seems backporting things from long ago does result in some regressions :)
09:00:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLDi9
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09:09:37 <TrueBrain> be careful with that :)
09:09:48 <TrueBrain> its Sunday ... no-work day :P
09:09:56 * andythenorth back to staring into space
09:10:29 <TrueBrain> eye-balling the M1 your children are playing on, I am sure :P
09:11:12 <andythenorth> adding Steam to it currently
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09:41:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDDO
09:42:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDD8
09:43:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDDz
09:46:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDDF
09:49:44 <LordAro> given we're now on C++17, we could actually use the single argument form of static_assert
09:50:40 <LordAro> and perhaps just remove assert_compile altogether
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09:52:43 <andythenorth> how many GS on bananas?
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09:54:14 <andythenorth> 804 newgrfs I think
09:58:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLMST
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10:02:43 <LordAro> andythenorth: i like your window more than all the others
10:03:01 <TrueBrain> LordAro: doesn't "assert_msg" needs to be called?
10:03:04 <andythenorth> it tries to be one-thing-per-page
10:03:09 <TrueBrain> (it is now only defined)
10:03:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: mm, it's unused "at the moment"
10:03:51 <LordAro> there might be places that would benefit from it, idk
10:03:55 <TrueBrain> maybe good to introduce at least one place that uses it?
10:04:01 <TrueBrain> just so we actually test the code :D
10:04:09 <TrueBrain> (honest question btw, I really do not know)
10:05:36 <LordAro> even jgr (in save_ext) only uses it in one place
10:05:55 <TrueBrain> owh, and you should check error(); there is some code missing in assert_msg_error :)
10:05:56 <LordAro> more of a development debug feature, i suppose
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10:10:38 <FLHerne> Maybe towns should be more likely to build a bridge if many recent building-construction attempts have failed
10:10:56 <FLHerne> But I can imagine that going horribly wrong with, say, TaI
10:11:50 <FLHerne> It limits population by causing construction checks to fail, so every town would start sprouting bridges :p
10:14:05 * andythenorth thinks interesting mischief could be made possible by giving industry grfs 256 registers of global storage, and a monthly 'whole grf' callback, and access to certain scopes, like a list of all town IDs
10:14:16 <andythenorth> vars / scopes /s
10:15:06 <TrueBrain> if Squirrel barks, it barks really good ... I now get a compile error I cannot understand :(
10:15:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDSO
10:15:37 <andythenorth> now that I understand town storage properly...and the amount was raised...there are a lot of possibilities
10:15:55 <andythenorth> and a single cb can do an awful lot of things before returning
10:16:08 <andythenorth> at some point I guess it runs out of varaction 2 IDs though
10:16:58 <andythenorth> e.g. if I could find the towns
10:17:03 <andythenorth> I could find adjacent towns
10:17:13 <andythenorth> so I could declare 'regions', e.g. 'this region has coal mines'
10:17:27 <andythenorth> just by grouping a few towns, and storing something in a register
10:18:04 <andythenorth> this would probably have better visual results AND be more efficient AND more reliable than the current distance-based clustering checks
10:20:05 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i've used some macro magic to remove the separate assert_error_msg function entirely
10:20:28 <TrueBrain> and I don't understand why the Squirrel magic doesn't want to compile my function :'( :'(
10:23:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLMST
10:24:19 <TrueBrain> LordAro: just still no usage, so I have no clue if your magic is valid :D But I am sure you will fix it if it turnsout to be wrong :P
10:24:46 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i tested it by putting a message in the free function below :)
10:24:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLDS4
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10:25:23 <TrueBrain> so I change a function in a script_.hpp file to have an additional parameter
10:25:30 <TrueBrain> and Squirrel is going apeshit over it
10:25:40 <TrueBrain> guess this is the first function with 6 parameters?
10:26:00 <TrueBrain> I remember there needs to be some glue to support N parameters
10:27:50 <TrueBrain> yeah, that fixes it :)
10:28:28 <andythenorth> ok so a var listing all towns doesn't work in grf, no way to iterate over the list
10:28:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JL1o6
10:28:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8438: Codechange: Replace FOR_VEHICLE_ORDERS with range-based for loops https://git.io/JLMDS
10:28:51 <andythenorth> so instead a monthly cb that lets a grf walk over every town on the map
10:29:15 <LordAro> TrueBrain: now i'm scared, what's the function with 10 parameters?
10:29:31 <TrueBrain> I dunno .. how do you grep on something like that :P
10:31:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8440: Various minor standalone codechanges stolen from JGR https://git.io/JLMST
10:35:12 <TrueBrain> if you can articulate sufficiently why, yes. Otherwise, no.
10:36:34 <andythenorth> I have nothing beyond "stale"
10:36:41 <andythenorth> probably not enough
10:36:53 <TrueBrain> no clue why you are all of a sudden so trigger-happy :)
10:37:15 <andythenorth> 49 is better than 50
10:37:27 <andythenorth> and that one was my fault
10:37:32 <andythenorth> so I could clean up my mess
10:37:39 <TrueBrain> and you expect that to go well ... how exactly, with our opinionated members of this community? :D
10:37:59 <andythenorth> pff...I don't see any working test grfs except mine
10:38:04 <andythenorth> decisions get made by those who turn up
10:38:17 <andythenorth> it's easy to demand, it's less easy to provide test cases
10:39:19 <andythenorth> eh my test grf is not attached
10:40:33 <FLHerne> That one looks like death through overcomplication
10:40:43 <FLHerne> The original thing is obviously a good idea?
10:40:55 <andythenorth> it solves a reported issue
10:41:05 <andythenorth> and I had a working test case for it
10:41:21 <FLHerne> Then it got all these other weird semi-related lookups tacked onto it, and now it isn't
10:41:25 <andythenorth> alternatively, players should just not use railtype grfs other than Termite
10:41:34 <andythenorth> and my problem goes away
10:41:44 * andythenorth purely selfish here, otherwise nothing gets done :)
10:42:13 <andythenorth> so I could disable Iron Horse if railtype grfs are found
10:42:16 <andythenorth> or send a message
10:43:21 <andythenorth> at least to a branch or something
10:46:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8441: Codechange: Replace assert_compile macro with static_assert https://git.io/JLD9I
10:47:53 <LordAro> mm, should look at it again
10:49:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8441: Codechange: Replace assert_compile macro with static_assert https://git.io/JLD9q
10:49:25 <TrueBrain> expecting anyone to review that is silly :P
10:49:59 <LordAro> it was made with `sed -i 's/assert_compile/static_assert/' src/*.*` :p
10:50:29 <TrueBrain> I trust you are capable, yes ;)
10:55:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8441: Codechange: Replace assert_compile macro with static_assert https://git.io/JLD9I
10:55:55 <LordAro> alright i'll stop nwo
10:58:14 <andythenorth> dear chrome, please give back CPU
10:58:19 <andythenorth> 1000% usage is excessive
10:59:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: feel free to continue ;)
10:59:23 <TrueBrain> a number is just a number :D
11:15:28 <andythenorth> my number today is 9
11:20:35 <FLHerne> 9 seems excessive really
11:20:43 <FLHerne> I find 7 is more than enough
11:20:54 <andythenorth> I have contingency
11:21:04 <andythenorth> so does newgrf run before GS at map gen?
11:21:14 <andythenorth> hmm, probably doesn't matter
11:21:40 <andythenorth> IFF FIRS could designate arbitrary towns as "this is a steeltown"
11:21:50 <andythenorth> and GS could read that from the town registers
11:22:15 <andythenorth> then a patched Silicon Valley GS could be made to understand FIRS Steeltown
11:22:46 <andythenorth> without requiring the GS to maintain a list of all cargos and industries in all FIRS versions, to detect the grf by fingerprinting
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11:27:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JLMS5
11:27:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JIW6A
11:27:35 <michi_cc> Somebody (most likely me) merged some conflicts
11:29:17 <TrueBrain> I am reading town code ... turns out, that putting things on random-layout, does .. weird stuff :P
11:29:25 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I find it interesting that you are advocating for configurable/modabble/etc for OTTD while at the same time being very much opinionated about what e.g. TrueWiki should and should not do.
11:29:55 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I did exactly the same there, in case it is an honest question (I cannot always tell, sorry :D)
11:30:10 <michi_cc> Note: I don't mean that in any way negative, it's just an interesting dichotomy
11:30:14 <TrueBrain> I created wikitexthtml, which has no opinion and just provide wiki-passthrough
11:30:24 <TrueBrain> truewiki is the "mod" on top of wikitexthtml, with a very strong opinion :)
11:31:13 <TrueBrain> on the other axis: having a strong opinion is exactly why I favour moddability in base layers, as that allows other people to have a strong opinion too
11:31:21 <TrueBrain> as I will never claim my opinion is the only correct one :D
11:31:38 <michi_cc> OpenTTD is truewiki and not wikitexthtml though. For a fully modabble game based on an isometric 2D world, I'd never use OTTD as the base for.
11:31:56 <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> as I will never claim my opinion is the only correct one :D <- is that other's are wrong :P
11:31:58 <TrueBrain> I would argue it is something in-between
11:33:10 <michi_cc> Taken to its extreme hyperbole, the question comes down to: Do we want to make a game or a game framework?
11:33:10 <andythenorth> if there could be a needle and it pointed to 'less moddable' or 'more moddable
11:33:11 <TrueBrain> well, no, let me put that different: either OpenTTD should be a heavily opinionated game, or it should move as much as (sanely) possible to mods
11:33:18 <andythenorth> 'more moddable' is better
11:33:26 <andythenorth> 100% moddable is making a false goal IMHO
11:33:57 <andythenorth> like...it's already GPL, if you want 100% moddable learn C++, as JGR proves nicely
11:34:08 <andythenorth> but 80-90% moddable? Pretty healthy
11:34:10 <TrueBrain> and the other difference I see in what you write and how I feel about the game, has more to do with: what is moddable. Of course you could take it to an extreme, and only supply a isometric 2d engine, which Unity does for example
11:34:46 <andythenorth> michi_cc I went looking into things like roblox a bit to see if we wanted to make a game framework; I thought probably not
11:34:46 <TrueBrain> take for example town (hot topic :D), this is full of personal flavor and playstyle
11:34:59 <TrueBrain> we can have an opinion about it, but so many others do too
11:35:04 <andythenorth> but roblox is opinionated as a game framework even
11:35:05 <TrueBrain> so pushing these kind of things to mods, is good
11:35:12 <TrueBrain> moving a Pathfinder to a mod? I would argue that is too far
11:35:19 <TrueBrain> this is what I mean with: OpenTTD is somewhere in between
11:35:23 <TrueBrain> supply a base game which is solid
11:35:38 <TrueBrain> and allowing extension by anyone with a different intake on economy, trains, towns, trees, ...
11:36:02 <TrueBrain> this is not my own concept btw, just to be clear. Games like Factorio do also exactly that :)
11:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> my explorer car seems to have glitched through the world... am i actually playing astroneer? :p
11:36:25 * andythenorth considers listing "things we can mod already" and "things we can't" ;P
11:36:36 <michi_cc> There would still be a need to provide a default C++ behaviour though, unless we really start shipping a set of NewGRFs/Scripts which are auto-activated(!).
11:36:55 <andythenorth> that was my mad idea earlier today
11:36:59 <TrueBrain> I am fine with both, really
11:36:59 <andythenorth> I didn't propose it, too mad
11:37:19 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: but I fully agree, we have to supply a base game
11:37:25 <TrueBrain> and it has to be a game, and it has to be playable
11:37:25 <andythenorth> literally remove default C++ behaviour, delegate to a bundled mod, and provide a path for old savegames to use the mod
11:37:52 <TrueBrain> whether the default game is, like factorio, just a mod, or hardcoded in C++ .. honestly, that is tomato tomato for me :)
11:38:03 <LordAro> well that's what we do already with the basesets
11:38:43 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: in essence, what it comes down to for me: if you see this "town bridge length", as example: within 24 hour 4 people had completely different ideas how that should be done. And I am all in for trying out all 4 :)
11:39:25 <michi_cc> Well, having some logic for length of town bridges does not prohibit some mod interface, but just not having any logic at all just makes a poor game. Most players will not start with mods right from the beginning.
11:39:36 <TrueBrain> and sure I have an opinion how I think it should be done, which I show with TrueWiki, but I also very much like if others give it their spin (based on wikitexthtml, as example) :D
11:39:55 <TrueBrain> and we have logic currently .. we can tune that, that is also fine
11:40:04 <TrueBrain> but currently we run in circles that: we should do A, no B, no C, no D
11:40:12 <TrueBrain> and we will never settle on any of them :)
11:40:40 <michi_cc> So if there are 4 possible ideas, we still have to select one (possibly somewhat dictatorially).
11:40:58 <TrueBrain> well, that is the other road OpenTTD can take: don't make things moddable, and just pick what-ever we fancy most
11:41:00 <TrueBrain> it is perfectly legit
11:41:07 <TrueBrain> it will upset some people, but .. shrug
11:41:11 <TrueBrain> what ever we do, we will upset people :P
11:41:34 <TrueBrain> personally, I would rather see we can have all 4 via mods, and we drag in the base game which ever we fancy most
11:41:41 <michi_cc> We can still make it modabble, but that should not stop us from changing the default behaviour.
11:41:43 <Wolf01> Let people upset themselves democratically then
11:41:55 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: we say the same :) Only the order of execution most likely differs ;)
11:42:07 <andythenorth> michi_cc I have one -1 point to "that should not stop us from changing the default behaviour"
11:42:16 <andythenorth> discussing those things is boring and saps motivation?
11:42:20 <TrueBrain> I have absolutely nothing against the bridge length PR for example; I just wish there was some form of consensus it is an improvement :)
11:42:27 <andythenorth> I agree, game needs good default behaviours
11:42:33 <andythenorth> but getting there is really hard
11:42:44 <andythenorth> like...we won't ship any trams either, because it's social politics
11:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> imho we need to either decide "let's do all this in C++" or figure out a way to bundle carefully selected newgrfs with the base game
11:42:50 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: for me, a form of voting would already help greatly
11:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and not discuss the same thing again for every PR
11:43:28 <andythenorth> look at this from a different frame
11:43:39 <andythenorth> someone proposes an industry PR, what do we do?
11:43:39 <michi_cc> Opinion: I like the bridge length by town size. I concur that it might limit island towns, but I don't see why every town must be able to grow to a mega-city.
11:43:53 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I agree with that opinion
11:44:24 <TrueBrain> now if we could do this more often, we can make some progress there :)
11:44:44 <TrueBrain> (and yes, I am very much in favour of doing this case-by-case .. we will learn each others opinion quickly enough)
11:44:57 <TrueBrain> so first few PRs can be a bit annoying .. but after a few, it really is easy
11:45:14 <TrueBrain> (design by consensus)
11:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the island-town is a non-issue, the player can always build a bridge to help the town grow. also, we might consider a minimum area for the random town generator
11:45:22 <michi_cc> Also, ugh OSX again :(
11:45:56 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: in fact, maybe we should do another round on settings some time soon, and just make an opinion on a good default, and remove the setting :P
11:45:59 <TrueBrain> we could do with less settings :D
11:46:21 <TrueBrain> this game does not need more settings :)
11:47:10 <LordAro> if we remove some settings, we can start adding new ones again!
11:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that brings me back to an old question: can we include the level crossing patch without a setting, that doesn't immediately crash all RVs on an existing savegame?
11:47:37 <Wolf01> Disable it on old saves
11:47:40 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: If you code it properly :p
11:48:24 <michi_cc> Heck, saveload code could, in the exreme case, even teleport the road vehicle to before or after the level crossing.
11:48:46 <TrueBrain> if it is a goal, we can solve it, basically :)
11:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: well, the question is what's "properly". i changed the logic so that if a vehicle is already on a level crossing, it can enter the next level crossing tile even if the level crossing is closed
11:49:20 <TrueBrain> btw, if the bridge-length PR would introduce a setting so someone can configure what the ratio population vs bridge-length would be, I would not like it very much; just to give a counter example :)
11:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's kinda the core functionality
11:49:33 <michi_cc> Yes, so teleport the vehicles in AfterLoadGame to a save position.
11:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds complicated
11:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> might end up with multiple vehicles on the same position
11:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno the consequences of that
11:51:08 <Wolf01> Vehicles can't crash with each others, and we still have the quantum effect on queues sometimes
11:51:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JIW6A
11:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that leaves corner cases where there is no safe position. like someone sent a car on the level crossing, and deleted all incoming roads
11:52:48 <michi_cc> Maybe crash, maybe no crash. Simply ignore it.
11:52:59 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: tnx btw for that question; I really appreciate a discussion of this form :)
11:53:23 <michi_cc> Or even in that case, if a vehicle is already stopped, don't start it again until the level crossing in front is free.
11:53:45 <michi_cc> If the vehicle then gets hit by a train on the behind track, just don't care at all.
11:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> might be tricky to detect "stopped", except speed=0
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12:11:07 <andythenorth> IRL the whole damn crossing gets closed :)
12:11:21 <andythenorth> but IRL and games eh
12:12:10 * andythenorth has no idea how the patch works, but crossings -> bridges is a solution :)
12:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the patch does just that. treats the whole crossing as closed
12:12:45 <andythenorth> and then vehicles already in the crossing...have rolled the dice as to death?
12:13:13 <Eddi|zuHause> not if you set signals far away enough
12:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is player error.
12:13:34 <andythenorth> I never do, due to signal headways, but other players exist :D
12:13:49 <andythenorth> oooh....special crossing trigger signal?
12:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause> only problem is old savegame, where a vehicle previously waited in the middle of the crossing
12:14:01 <andythenorth> PBS forward reservation signal :P
12:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> no special signal, just the regular PBS reservation
12:14:23 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> but that is player error. <- that's why we should have the yellow state signal with look-ahead :P
12:14:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JLDQb
12:14:40 <andythenorth> "I would like to reserve a path this far ahead if possible"
12:14:45 <andythenorth> this is not the topic though :)
12:14:48 <andythenorth> let's not derail
12:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: imho we don't need any of that, we just need a concept of "braking distance", and extend the reservation if it's shorter than that
12:15:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause loading the savegame just stops the vehicles?
12:16:04 <andythenorth> hmm, if a grf has changed vehicle length, ALL vehicles of that type are stopped
12:16:19 <Wolf01> BTW, don't fix players bad play style
12:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> no. we can still have emergency braking, if the player messes with reserved tracks
12:16:25 <andythenorth> so stop all trains and RVs on loading save if vehicles in crossings?
12:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that sounds like a terrible solution
12:16:48 <Wolf01> But don't encourage it too (like I already said my thoughts about the auto remove signals)
12:17:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I think it would be annoying, but it is a solution
12:17:19 <andythenorth> others would be...?
12:18:24 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Update and PR that to current master, and I might be persuaded to look at the saveload problem.
12:19:11 <Wolf01> If the crossing patch could replicate at least the old behaviour in edge cases I would be fine with that, currently if a vehicle manages to get stopped over a crossing because the next one is closed it's right to let it happen too with the patch when loading an old save
12:19:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JIW6A
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12:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that introduces odd corner cases in the code, which seems unclean
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12:21:44 <andythenorth> teleport all problem vehicles to nearest connected road depot and stop them?
12:21:45 <Wolf01> Why? The vehicle is stopped, keep it stopped in the middle of a 6 track main line until the whole crossing clears, if it gets hit... it gets hit
12:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: like i said, there is no concept of "stopped"
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12:22:49 <Wolf01> Maybe we should address that before this patch?
12:23:25 <andythenorth> what outcome are we trying to prevent?
12:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's needed
12:23:28 <michi_cc> Wolf01: There's nothing to address there, a crossings patch just needs appropriate AfterLoadGame conversion code.
12:24:21 * andythenorth clarifies, what outcome are trying to prevent when loading an existing save?
12:24:56 <michi_cc> Just like the fixup e.g. when we changed train center position.
12:26:14 <michi_cc> The really interesing thing about that crossings patch is that it would be a good base to build diagonal (well, straight track in OTTD speak :) level crossings on.
12:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i have some of that work done
12:26:40 <andythenorth> and that would be nice to have
12:26:48 <andythenorth> I tested that diagonal patch
12:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it was functional, but lacked the drawing part
12:27:19 <andythenorth> it would require a newgrf railtypes update? But that would be fine?
12:27:55 <michi_cc> So, get your virtual I-have-a-patch-peter out and update your patches (bugs and everything included), and then we can see how to fix it up into something nice :)
12:28:43 <andythenorth> good feature: not much to debate, clear improvement, no settings needed, minimal newgrf complication
12:32:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLD74
12:34:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLD7u
12:34:38 <JGR> Which crossing patch are you referring to?
12:34:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc requested changes for pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JLD72
12:35:32 <michi_cc> Close/open adjacent corossing all at once.
12:36:35 * andythenorth looks for it in forums
12:37:03 <JGR> Yes, I've got that in my branch, it doesn't by itself stop vehicles from being destroyed
12:37:33 <FLHerne> It does work a lot better for double-track lines though
12:38:11 <JGR> I was a bit confused by talk of teleporting vehicles, etc.
12:38:24 <FLHerne> And for anything more, either behaviour sucks enough that no-one builds that
12:39:25 <michi_cc> The teleporting was about savegame conversion, e.g. how you handle vehicles currently stopped at a crossing in the middle of adjacent crossings.
12:39:39 <FLHerne> JGR: IIRC, the issue was in the first seconds of a game that was created without the patch, when vehicles are already part-way across a crossing that they wouldn't have been allowed onto with the patch
12:39:51 <LordAro> fun thing i've just found from looking at the aircraft code - it's the plane's shadow that carries mail
12:40:14 <FLHerne> So they continue and get squashed
12:40:45 <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol! Start a blog about these things :D
12:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: quick! add a 3rd cargo bay for helicopters that gets carried in the rotor :p
12:42:38 <andythenorth> LordAro this is why I want wakes for ships :P
12:43:09 <andythenorth> and why the hovercraft patch needed shadows :P
12:43:15 <JGR> For savegame conversion, if the savegame is pre adjacent crossing, it would be loaded with the setting off
12:43:27 <andythenorth> I did think of doing one of those horrible roundup type blogs
12:43:33 <andythenorth> we have done craploads of stuff recently
12:43:56 <michi_cc> The discussion before that was kinda about not adding even more settings for more stuff.
12:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> JGR: the idea was to have no setting
12:44:12 <JGR> I know, I'm just looking through my own code for this now
12:44:37 <michi_cc> If you have a setting, savegame conversion is indeed trivial :)
12:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but then we'd continue the endless discussion about whether we really need a setting for that :p
12:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> oh man, the level crossing stuff is still in hg :p
12:47:58 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Setting, but hidden from users?
12:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: that would prevent them from manually changing it for their old savegames
12:49:12 <JGR> Did a quick test in my branch, turning the setting from off to on (equivalent to the savegame conversion case) does not do the adjacent crossing extension immediately, that is only done when a train next approaches a level crossing with the setting on
12:49:17 <FLHerne> Somehow apply the old behaviour to vehicles that are on a crossing until they've left it?
12:49:30 <JGR> So vehicles waiting part way across are OK
12:49:35 <andythenorth> if only there was like an existing PP...where we could test this :)
12:50:23 <JGR> However, if a second train approaches a crossing where the vehicle part way across is parked, the road vehicle immediately starts moving and crashes into whatever is on the next track :(
12:50:52 <JGR> Never thought of that corner case before
12:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, that's the kind of problem that we're trying to solve
12:51:44 * andythenorth wonders how many multi-track crossings exist in savegames :)
12:51:57 <JGR> I've got lots in my games
12:52:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLD5v
12:52:07 <andythenorth> I never use them, they destroy vehicles :D
12:52:08 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: to maybe confuse you more, ^^ :)
12:52:12 <TrueBrain> well, not what andythenorth says :P
12:52:38 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: for me, that PR is the balance between "making it moddable" and "hardcoded in C++"; curious to what you think :)
12:52:39 <JGR> In my branch I've got another setting for safer level crossings so that road vehicles don't get flattened
12:53:07 <JGR> Level crossings are promoted to PBS and reservations are only possible when the crossing is clear
12:54:53 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Idea is good. People will ask about how to change it for mapgen towns on new game, though.
12:55:46 <michi_cc> Oh, and you've been bitten by the recent assert_compile PR :)
12:55:58 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: which is why I almost didn't implement the GS/SE part ;)
12:56:07 <TrueBrain> yeah, there is a lot more wrong with this PR, so I am not too bothered about that :P
12:57:28 <michi_cc> Can the WASM builds to AI now (i.e. preview for #7890)?
12:58:43 <michi_cc> Is 19 hours ago good?
12:59:03 <TrueBrain> honestly, dunno .. time is a bit blurry these days :D
12:59:21 <michi_cc> (I could of course pull the PR and test locally, but....)
12:59:52 <michi_cc> 2 days ago, let's try.
12:59:54 <Wolf01> andythenorth: one day I'll ask you to teach me grf... not the graphics part, I'm totally denied for that, but the programming part to add features to the game :P
13:00:01 <TrueBrain> and indeed, just try :P
13:00:15 <andythenorth> Wolf01 don't ask me, I have all the wrong ideas :)
13:00:24 <TrueBrain> but regarding my PR, michi_cc , in your opinion should we already add the settings in the newgame window? Or is it fine that we predefine an opinion of that in there? :)
13:01:16 <andythenorth> Wolf01 first one writes a set of python (or PHP or .net or something) classes, and stays as far away from nml as possible
13:01:44 <michi_cc> Well, what I mean is that people will ask how to change it for each individual town after they've clicked 'new game'. "Use the scenario editor" can very well be a valid answer for that.
13:01:59 <TrueBrain> okay, I can work with that :)
13:03:09 <andythenorth> deliver different cargos to the town to change the grid setting
13:03:24 <FLHerne> JGR: So road vehicles will force the protecting rail signal to be red?
13:03:54 <andythenorth> town-grid-setting new objects, to build under town sign
13:04:09 <LordAro> JGR: i've fixed the aircraft movement issue :) now to look at the crash...
13:04:09 <Wolf01> andythenorth: that's one of the worst ideas I ever heard of... but I like it
13:04:31 <Wolf01> It's like "you are what you eat"
13:04:37 <andythenorth> dedicated roadtypes, overbuild road at town sign to change grid spacing
13:04:39 <andythenorth> side channels :P
13:05:30 <michi_cc> So OTTD would get, in UK terms, AFBCL level crossings with that patch?
13:06:43 <michi_cc> andythenorth: OTTD SPECTRE?
13:06:59 <JGR> FLHerne: The protecting signal is promoted to PBS in the same way as mixed PBS/non-PBS blocks, the PBS reservation only succeeds if the crossing is clear, I'm trying to find the commit
13:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> JGR: i imagine that causes unnecessary train slowdowns in a lot of cases
13:08:16 <michi_cc> It is especially quite incompatible with the "newbie" one train per line, no signals variant.
13:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: i've seen people playing that way for decades :p
13:08:56 <JGR> It does, but for me at least it's better than absurd levels of carnage
13:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> JGR: it would be better if paired with some way to reserve additional segments ahead of time
13:09:45 <andythenorth> so 8442 needs a test GS?
13:10:19 <JGR> The issue is that a reservation needs to end somewhere, it can't just end in the middle of a track section
13:10:40 <JGR> That would cause all sorts of deadlocks
13:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but if you could tell the train to (try to) reserve 2 signals ahead, and continue if succeding for at least 1 signal, then it could mark the crossing as "about to close" while still travelling at full speed to the next signal, hoping that the crossing has cleared by then
13:15:37 <JGR> That would work, you would effectively need two types of PBS reservation
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13:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> that same way you could give trains a priority
13:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> we did some tests with that concept a few years ago, but it didn't really work out
13:21:31 <JGR> Hmm, might try and experiment with that a bit later
13:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the main issues was, if the 2nd reservation ever fails, how and when do you tell it to try again?
13:26:40 <JGR> Presumably as the train approaches or is waiting at the second signal
13:28:02 <andythenorth> NFI what to do next?
13:28:39 * andythenorth guesses there must be event loops or something?
13:31:01 <andythenorth> town layout from 8442 is a setting, will be in savegame, yes?
13:31:06 <andythenorth> I don't have to hold the state in the GS?
13:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, weird. seems my patch removed a line about playing the level crossing sound, but i don't see it re-added anywhere
13:34:47 <andythenorth> can you cherrypick that single line please :P
13:34:56 <andythenorth> crossing bells :P
13:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i only noticed because that line conflicted, because master now has it guarded by a "if (_settings_client.sound.ambient)"
13:37:35 <andythenorth> valid ways to reload a GS? newgame, or close the client and restart?
13:37:41 <andythenorth> there's no way to change the GS on a savegame?
13:38:26 <Samu> strange, i cant create savegames anymore
13:39:30 <Samu> it says it's saving, then when i was looking to load it, it's not there
13:41:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLDdM
13:41:17 <LordAro> michi_cc: ^ might have broken something :)
13:42:29 <glx> Samu: checked if the file is somewhere else ?
13:43:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I fail to see how your comment is constructive? Not sure what you try to gain?
13:43:45 <TrueBrain> (honest question; I am puzzled)
13:44:20 <Samu> im saving as 123, and it says it already exists
13:44:26 <frosch123> i am just as puzzled. that PR makes it sound as if the only problem with #7745 is adding more settings. and it tries to solve that by hiding them?
13:44:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/JLDdb
13:44:29 <Samu> but it doesn't list any 123
13:44:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you are puzzled, stop at the question; you now just put down a reply that reads as: this is bullshit. You most likely don't mean that, but it reads kinda blunt :D
13:45:30 <TrueBrain> (which makes me have to defend myself, instead of having an discussion if this is something what we want ;) )
13:45:35 <JGR> @andythenorth: basically the only thing you can do to a GS in a savegame in trunk is remove it. It makes GSs rather less useful than they could be unfortunately.
13:45:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLDdj
13:46:02 <andythenorth> JGR I have your PP running here....
13:46:23 <frosch123> TrueBrain: should i just have written a "why?". i have no idea
13:46:42 <glx> Samu: that's why I asked if you check the file wasn't somewhere else
13:46:59 <Samu> im trying to find for 123 in my C: now :p
13:47:32 <JGR> andythenorth, try setting gui.ai_developer_tools to on
13:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to have messed up pre-commit hooks. when i type "git commit <stuff>" it tells me "don't run this script from the command line"
13:48:29 <andythenorth> JGR 'on' or 'true'
13:48:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: reworded, better?
13:48:37 <glx> too old version of the scripts Eddi|zuHause ?
13:48:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: a lot, honestly :)
13:48:50 <glx> I think git used to expose a variable
13:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: very likely (it seems it checks GIT_DIR, but it is not set?)
13:48:56 <JGR> 'on' and 'true' should do the same thing
13:49:08 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: how do i update
13:49:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLDFI
13:50:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you like the core of #7745, then reduce it to just that. add the settings, but restrict them to range (<=3) that gives the same ooptions as before
13:50:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLDFt
13:51:13 <TrueBrain> I do not like the setting part; I am fine with the dropdown of 4 choices :)
13:51:26 <TrueBrain> but I hope I worded that in my comment, that there we clearly differ in opinion :D
13:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: yes, i'm pretty sure i imported that way back
13:51:54 <andythenorth> JGR thanks, I have some flag icons and breakpoint options now :D
13:52:21 <andythenorth> reloading GS I guess is out of scope?
13:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there may be some debug commands buried somewhere. who knows
13:54:01 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: seen [<channel>] <nick>
13:54:24 <JGR> You should be able to remove it and re-add it from the AI/GS settings window
13:55:06 <andythenorth> there is a 'Reload AI' button for the GS, but disabled
13:55:35 <andythenorth> ok good that works thanks :)
13:56:40 <Samu> it was saving in the parent directory, and added "save" as the name before the actual name
13:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> alright, seems i found where i had that checkout :)
13:57:32 <glx> oh I spot a nice missing path separator
13:59:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8443: Fix 65f65ad2: Missing path seperator that fell over a cliff. https://git.io/JLDF8
14:00:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8443: Fix 65f65ad2: Missing path seperator that fell over a cliff. https://git.io/JLDFR
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14:05:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/Jexqi
14:07:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8443: Fix 65f65ad2: Missing path separator that fell over a cliff. https://git.io/JLDF8
14:08:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol updated pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JklGO
14:10:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLDFQ
14:12:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large cro… https://git.io/JLDFp
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14:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope i didn't miss anything
14:15:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLDbI
14:25:43 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: It passed the CI at least, and I've activated preview mode.
14:27:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol updated pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JklGO
14:30:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large cro… https://git.io/JLDb7
14:32:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large cro… https://git.io/JLDbd
14:44:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLDNY
14:44:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8442: Feature: allow SE and GS to define spacing between road layouts of towns https://git.io/JLD5v
14:51:54 <frosch123> hmm. i write a new wiki page, and truewiki reports no errors. something must be broken
14:52:05 <TrueBrain> let me get right on that :D
14:56:19 <frosch123> hmm, need to start baking now
14:56:39 <TrueBrain> that is a lot of writing :D
14:58:18 <TrueBrain> pretty solid idea; it is either that, or the inverse: make GS instances smaller and operate on a single thing. As in, 1 GS script can implement a TownAI, a GoalAI, etc, and they are assigned to a Town / Game on startup
14:58:39 <TrueBrain> well, that sentence didn't really make sense :P
14:58:49 <TrueBrain> but I agree, baking time!! :D
14:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i've not dived deep into that topic, but it would make a few things easier if every town had a separate town personality instance
15:15:10 <supermop_Home> maybe if towns had some rudimentary way to decide / prioritize their efforts
15:15:41 <supermop_Home> like if a long bridge costs the town, they only decide to build it if they have no choice
15:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> things like non-square grids (e.g. 3x4), or town zones in non-concentric circles
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15:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or, offering different player interaction methods (like where advertising campaigns are now)
15:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> varying local governments' reaction on player terraforming
15:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on which party is in charge, cutting down trees may be forbidden, or different types of subsidies are available
15:22:29 <supermop_Home> Eddi|zuHause towns that grow wider with more low density buildings, versus those that grow denser ?
15:23:11 <supermop_Home> i guess prioritizing trying to grow on the edge of town in low town zone vs trying to replace buildings near the center
15:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, things that TaI once attempted to do via NewGRF
15:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also, more flexible approach to the town/city growth speed difference
15:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with doing all this in GS is that GS has limited number of commands it can run per tick, so it doesn't scale well with large number of towns
15:44:59 <michi_cc> The GS instance per town would mostly resovle the command limit, at least for towns. Just to replace it with a memory footprint per town :(
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15:56:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLDp8
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16:06:25 <Samu> hmm, my AI actually uses shared orders
16:07:51 <andythenorth> I don't know if 'auto-separate' is exposed to AIs in that patch (I didn't look)
16:11:23 <Samu> hmm my AI attaches airports with bus stations, i wonder how this auto-separation behaves in this case
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16:24:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLDhW
16:24:25 <Samu> doesn't have any effect on my AI
16:24:55 <Samu> or maybe the orders i'm using don't combine well with the feature
16:26:06 <Samu> btw the new inflation combined with the huge max loan increase seems to break my AI
16:34:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLDhF
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16:40:00 <gooball> Hi, I'm working on making the conversion between different road types (including their respective bridges, depots, etc.) in NewGRFs like RattRoads work like expected. Currently, ownership of a road tile does not change on conversion, but I was wondering whether it would make sense to change it to the player's company (just like what would happen if they player instead destroyed and
16:40:03 <gooball> rebuilt the road tile).
16:41:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLDj3
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16:44:52 <frosch123> the ownership is mostly about who is allowed to remove a road
16:45:21 <frosch123> if anyone is allowed to upgrade, you essentially add a cheap way to remove any road
16:45:43 <frosch123> what do you use ownership for? other than "who is allowed to remove it"?
16:47:10 <gooball> you shouldn't be allowed to upgrade (or downgrade) other companies' or hostile cities' roads, the question is just whether the player should assume ownership of a road after conversion
16:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> like take it over from a town? no
16:48:20 <gooball> alright so town roads should stay town roads after conversion?
16:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the town should refuse if the new roadtype isn't compatible with ROAD
16:53:25 <gooball> what about unowned roads?
16:54:02 <gooball> i feel like they should be convertable by anyone and claimed on conversion
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17:08:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLyeg
17:10:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLyei
17:10:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout https://git.io/JLMPY
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17:20:31 <andythenorth> supermop_Home :)
17:20:53 <andythenorth> didn't include pictures
17:20:57 <andythenorth> pls add pictures :P
17:21:48 <andythenorth> wall of text is very wall :(
17:24:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bernardoct opened issue #8448: New feature: option to see charts of all items in the balance sheet dating from 10 years prior. https://git.io/JLyv2
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17:43:41 <andythenorth> I remain puzzled by groups, dunno what I miss
17:43:49 <andythenorth> groups already exist by shared orders
17:43:59 <andythenorth> there's too ways to achieve it
17:47:06 <supermop_Home> yeah but you might want a group that doesn't share orders (coal sector- serving various mines, Local trains of X City), or you might want to share orders but not group
17:47:22 <andythenorth> I don't know what 'automatically group' is doing
17:47:27 <andythenorth> looks like it scratches one itch
17:47:54 <andythenorth> I don't think it's wrong, I just don't understand it
17:48:37 <andythenorth> it seems ok to group by cargo, but then it makes subgroups
17:48:46 <andythenorth> and puts in a weird two letter code
17:48:55 <andythenorth> and assumes 'local' afaict
17:52:28 <supermop_Home> i feel like i should put together a deck with bood boards for arctic hotel
17:54:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLyfD
17:54:30 <Samu> downloaded and it crashed
17:55:26 <supermop_Home> Adirondack / Mountain West - Craftsman / Faux Cabin / 'Swiss' Chalet / Swiss Mid-century / Faux Nordic / 80s Olympic post modern /
17:57:33 <supermop_Home> Borscht Belt Resort
17:58:21 <LordAro> Samu: can confirm, seems so
18:02:35 <LordAro> can't say i understand the error though
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18:12:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8449: Fix 65f65ad2: Don't try to construct a std::string from nullptr https://git.io/JLyJy
18:12:20 <LordAro> that's 2 issues i missed :)
18:15:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLyJx
18:18:27 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:19:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8449: Fix 65f65ad2: Don't try to construct a std::string from nullptr https://git.io/JLyUt
18:21:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8449: Fix 65f65ad2: Don't try to construct a std::string from nullptr https://git.io/JLyUt
18:21:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8449: Fix 65f65ad2: Don't try to construct a std::string from nullptr https://git.io/JLyJy
18:23:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #8450: Doc: Remove some SmallVector references from documentation. https://git.io/JLyUs
18:24:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8449: Fix 65f65ad2: Don't try to construct a std::string from nullptr https://git.io/JLyUW
18:27:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8450: Doc: Remove some SmallVector references from documentation. https://git.io/JLyUg
18:30:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8450: Doc: Remove some SmallVector references from documentation. https://git.io/JLyU6
18:30:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8449: Fix 65f65ad2: Don't try to construct a std::string from nullptr https://git.io/JLyJy
18:32:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8450: Doc: Remove some SmallVector references from documentation. https://git.io/JLyUs
18:33:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8450: Doc: Remove some SmallVector references from documentation. https://git.io/JLyUd
18:38:04 <supermop_Home> is it hardcoded what houses in base set can use recoloring?
18:38:14 <supermop_Home> like the stripes on capsule tower etc?
18:40:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8450: Doc: Remove some SmallVector references from documentation. https://git.io/JLyUs
18:46:46 <andythenorth> I would guess so yes
18:46:52 <TrueBrain> I have a xmas dinner dinner, and so much mail! Omg :P
18:47:09 <andythenorth> supermop_Home not sure if that's baseset code, or in openttd
18:47:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I am too full of food to read anything :P
18:47:36 <andythenorth> 4 big dinners in 4 days
18:47:52 <supermop_Home> opengfx temperate hotel looks a little …. institutional
18:47:52 <TrueBrain> I am really .. no more room :D
18:47:53 <glx> supermop_Home: I think they use the company colour blue
18:48:00 <TrueBrain> so tonight, we do something completely different .. Factorio!
18:48:46 <supermop_Home> glx if any house can use colors that would be nice
18:49:14 <supermop_Home> although in this particular case i'm hoping to use the bridge / brick recoloring
18:49:44 <supermop_Home> andythenorth are firs hotels out?
18:51:13 <andythenorth> if you mean 'does FIRS need hotel sprites' the answer is yes :)
18:54:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #8452: Doc: Add labels to landscape grid description. https://git.io/JLyT1
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19:05:20 <gooball> coming back to the topic of converting between road types, i think it makes more sense to keep ownership as it is. regarding town roads, would it make sense to use town ratings as a basis for (dis)allowing town road conversion? there are already functions for getting a town's acceptance of road and bridge *removal*, so maybe these could be used for conversion as well.
19:07:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8452: Doc: Add labels to landscape grid description. https://git.io/JLykC
19:07:29 <supermop_Home> andythenorth does it have to just be 2x arctic hotel in a square
19:07:48 <andythenorth> FIRS has more possibilities
19:07:56 <andythenorth> but the FIRS hotel in my games is fine
19:08:25 <andythenorth> supermop_Home or I could just quit the discord channel, which would also solve the problem
19:08:29 <andythenorth> lateral solution?
19:08:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is an addition; so it can always be done later :)
19:09:25 <andythenorth> frosch123 I looked for you 'regions' GS spec earlier
19:09:30 <andythenorth> it's on wayback machine
19:11:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8452: Doc: Add labels to landscape grid description. https://git.io/JLyk6
19:14:21 <andythenorth> google needs to index it :D
19:18:09 <supermop_Home> i think the firs hotel looks espescially weird to me because it is a square
19:22:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: i removed all the name attribution and dumped all drafts from me, zuu, albert, and others into one folder
19:22:23 <frosch123> it was meant as a wiki, not as a personal gist
19:23:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout https://git.io/JLMPY
19:24:06 <LordAro> if anyone else knows anything about airport movement code, some input would be appreciated :)
19:24:20 <LordAro> but i suspect the answer is "no one understands it"
19:24:35 <LordAro> "maybe richk67 15 years ago"
19:24:55 <LordAro> supermop_Home: see the issue above
19:25:19 <supermop_Home> richk67 = airport in my mind
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19:39:10 <Samu> start new game, then in console type 'restart'
19:42:35 <Samu> strange, i can't trigger the bug now
19:45:45 <andythenorth> what even is? :D
19:46:42 <TrueBrain> life? universe? the rest?
19:48:56 <frosch123> someone ran out of rails
19:49:04 <TrueBrain> but why do they build it like this?!
19:49:33 <TrueBrain> feels like total RNG :P
19:49:42 <frosch123> no idea, i think i built double tracks once in factorio
19:49:49 <frosch123> i never have so many trains
19:49:59 <TrueBrain> you are playing it wrong, I dare say :D
19:50:51 <frosch123> i stop playing when i cannot keep up with replacing excausted mining outposts
19:50:54 <frosch123> which is too early when you are a slow builder
19:51:20 <TrueBrain> I play with friends .. well, with a friend :P It helps :D
19:51:22 <andythenorth> oof I am bad at tanks today
19:51:30 <andythenorth> worse than normal
19:54:30 <andythenorth> do some boat coding I guess
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20:02:35 <Samu> there is a bug with the new max loan
20:02:58 <Samu> it's trying to fit a Money into a uint32
20:04:25 <Samu> with the old 500k loan max, even after 170 years of inflation, still fit uint32
20:09:53 <frosch123> i am not sure you will find the right audience there
20:10:56 <frosch123> though no idea where else you could find it :)
20:14:30 <Samu> the AI is setting loan amount to 1 641 693 900 000
20:15:27 <Samu> @calc 1641693900000-82050000
20:15:40 <Samu> this number is passed to DoCommand
20:16:49 <Samu> p1 934342928 unsigned int
20:17:00 <Samu> it has another value now :(
20:18:31 <Samu> a quick fix is to revert the max loan increase back to 500k max
20:22:07 <Samu> not sure how feasible it is to change p1 into uint64
20:41:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #8453: AIs can fail at requesting 170 years inflation loan with a 4% interest rate https://git.io/JLyqn
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20:46:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] UnsuspiciousGooball opened pull request #8454: Fix #8297: Infrastructure counters for road tunnels, bridges, depots … https://git.io/JLyq0
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20:54:14 <TrueBrain> frosch123: your PR template really helps :)
20:58:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i barfed into your gist, sorry :)
21:01:00 <frosch123> i won't be here during the week, so no more annoying comments from me in the next days :)
21:02:59 <TrueBrain> not sure TownLocation and TownConstruction needs to be 2 entities
21:03:04 <TrueBrain> I think they are somewhat coupled
21:03:06 <andythenorth> Towns are Towns are Towns yes/no?
21:03:23 <TrueBrain> I can imagine that a GS wants to have specific places certain town-types appear
21:03:24 * andythenorth immediately started thinking about GS Landscape, and immediately deleted the idea
21:03:34 <andythenorth> Town Terraforming :P
21:03:43 <TrueBrain> but otherwise, Option 3 sounds like a sane thing to me, honestly
21:05:08 <frosch123> i am a bit worried, that no matter how the capabilities are separated, the system breaks down with the next gs idea :p
21:05:14 <TrueBrain> currently a location is found during the attempt to create a town .. OpenTTD does RandomTile, and it assigned a GS instance to it, tries to build it
21:05:33 <TrueBrain> we could skip capabilities and only do instances
21:05:40 * andythenorth wonders what else we want GS to do :P
21:05:50 <TrueBrain> but the capabilities make it more clear what a GS does
21:06:00 <frosch123> TrueBrain: haha, but ottd already does not do "random tile" :)
21:06:13 <frosch123> ottd does random tile, and if that ends up in the sea, it goes to nearest coast
21:06:20 <frosch123> increasing the number of towns at the coast
21:06:41 <TrueBrain> I happened to have read that line of code today :)
21:06:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8453: AIs can fail at requesting 170 years inflation loan with a 4% interest rate https://git.io/JLyqn
21:06:56 <TrueBrain> there is a bug there btw ...
21:07:07 <TrueBrain> alignment is checked BEFORE water movement
21:07:35 <TrueBrain> but okay, if we rotate those two blocks in our head for now
21:07:36 <frosch123> sounds like chicken-egg :)
21:08:02 <frosch123> if you just rotate them, you end up back in the water :)
21:08:13 <andythenorth> ok so GS for growth and roads, newgrf for houses
21:08:19 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair .. with 1 or 2 tiles, yes
21:08:23 <andythenorth> one GS per town, whereas there can be N house grfs?
21:09:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: gs is good at scanning the map. newgrf is good when a location is already known
21:09:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: anyway, I guess we just have to work this out a bit more, see where the edges are :)
21:09:54 <andythenorth> so 'how long is a town bridge' also just becomes a GS problem yes/no?
21:11:14 <frosch123> in theory, but it's unlikele people would write a gs just for that, when they can implement road layouts, serpentines, and whatever
21:11:40 <andythenorth> yes, I see it as a subset, not a thing they'd dedicate a GS for :)
21:12:03 <frosch123> townconstruction gs would probably also terraform a lot
21:12:03 <andythenorth> all I wanted was a list of grfids
21:12:06 <andythenorth> maybe I just ask :D
21:12:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: bananas?
21:13:07 <frosch123> wasn't there a fixed cargo slot for regearing?
21:13:58 <andythenorth> I ignored it and broke it
21:14:06 <andythenorth> Pikka said it was a stupid feature
21:14:18 <frosch123> and you have 64 cargos, I guess :p
21:14:31 <andythenorth> why they don't all just use lots of IDs for their engines, I don't know
21:14:39 <andythenorth> all this cargo subtype crap is really crap
21:14:52 <andythenorth> like, it's actively worse than having the vehicles in the buy menu
21:15:16 <frosch123> i like how the cargo limit was doubled, and you maxed it out within one year :p
21:16:14 <andythenorth> it's very hard to design gameplay other than 'blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah' with a lot of cargos
21:16:43 <frosch123> why can't you skip slot 31 then?
21:17:04 <andythenorth> I don't know what slot they're in and I don't really care
21:17:08 <andythenorth> they're doing the wrong thing :)
21:17:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8453: AIs can fail at requesting 170 years inflation loan with a 4% interest rate https://git.io/JLyqn
21:17:22 <frosch123> or do we need to make ottd better
21:17:27 <andythenorth> I have enough manual slot management just to deal with house cargos
21:17:38 <andythenorth> and default vehicles
21:17:57 <frosch123> noone bother to add dynamic cargo slot allocation to newgrf sets, because every industry set maxed out all 32 slots anyway
21:18:07 <frosch123> but with 64 it may be useful for a year
21:19:35 <andythenorth> I picked on RUKTS, but it's a pretty common approach, nothing against RUKTS
21:19:55 <frosch123> it lacks subtitles, no idea what i shall look at
21:20:44 <andythenorth> it's me clicking random things, wondering what they do
21:21:15 <andythenorth> if I upload it to YT, will google subtitle it? :P
21:21:36 <frosch123> ah, that's little different to me watching you clicking random things, also wondering what they do and whether you intend to do something :)
21:23:28 <andythenorth> funny what you can do with var 61
21:25:48 <andythenorth> sorry I derailed useful GS chat :P
21:26:13 <andythenorth> I have half-ideas about industry
21:26:52 <andythenorth> I think almost everything I am dreaming of can be done in newgrf, with town register stuff
21:27:12 <andythenorth> or maybe could be if grfs had global register and periodic cb
21:27:53 <andythenorth> communicating with towns about cargo effects can be done in town register 99% certain
21:28:57 <andythenorth> setting industry 'regions' like 'build coal mines here' could be done with towns, if I could stuff the same value into a register in a few adjacent towns
21:29:19 <andythenorth> closure could be done sanely if there were grf-global registers and a periodic cb
21:29:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 opened pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyY4
21:30:07 <andythenorth> the only 'problem' I can't figure out a possible solution for is forcing industry construction at certain times or locations
21:32:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] andythenorth commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyYo
21:33:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] frosch123 commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyYP
21:33:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] frosch123 closed pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyY4
21:33:25 <frosch123> oh, it was a PR, i thought it was an issue
21:33:27 <andythenorth> Chesterton's fence
21:33:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] frosch123 commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyY1
21:33:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] frosch123 reopened pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyY4
21:34:00 <supermop_Home> ive just wasted like 30 min trying to figure out in my head if a train turns short at station X at time T, will it block another train at station Y at time T+n
21:34:22 <supermop_Home> sometimes playing this game doesn't really feel like a game
21:34:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout https://git.io/JLMPY
21:36:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] andythenorth commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyYF
21:37:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: stop you ogfx whining, if you don't use it
21:37:08 <frosch123> i prefer it *a lot* over the original set
21:37:14 <andythenorth> yeah I added a comment to that effect
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21:39:13 <andythenorth> I kinda feel guilty that I haven't fixed the worst parts of ogfx, but nobody asked me to so that's....dumb
21:46:39 <glx> you mean the toolbar andythenorth ?
21:46:58 <andythenorth> no I mean the arctic hotel sprite and the minimap font
21:47:05 <andythenorth> the rest is matter of taste
21:47:15 <andythenorth> but those 2 are broken
21:47:32 <glx> I'm totally lost in the toolbar with ogfx
21:47:58 <andythenorth> I think that's just a familiarity issue
21:51:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8454: Fix #8297: Infrastructure counters for road tunnels, bridges, depots … https://git.io/JLy3f
22:08:43 * andythenorth looking if the ogfx minimap font 'e' glyph can be fixed
22:09:54 <andythenorth> I think there physically aren't enough pixels
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22:12:01 <andythenorth> oh well, I tried
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22:46:08 <frosch123> last PR of the year, prime candidate for "preview" label
22:46:20 <TrueBrain> media/openttd.desktop? :D
22:46:45 <TrueBrain> I am surprised it is this small :)
22:46:51 <frosch123> hmm, what did i commit there...
22:47:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8456: Fix #8453: [Script] Don't truncate loan variation to 32bit https://git.io/JLyGz
22:47:19 <frosch123> no idea where that file comes from
22:48:08 <TrueBrain> glx: isn't p2 also 32bit?
22:48:36 <TrueBrain> owh, your description is wrong :P
22:48:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLyG8
22:48:59 <TrueBrain> I assume you mean bit 0-29 for lower half of amount? :)
22:49:19 <TrueBrain> hmm, description seems weird in more ways :)
22:49:55 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, bit 0..2 is for the option, gotcha :)
22:50:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyG6
22:53:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: can he just make it into his own GRF, the cursor? Can you overwrite that with another GRF?
22:53:40 <glx> hmm I think I failed to write the function comments
22:53:49 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, he can
22:54:06 <frosch123> you can make static newgrf, that do not affect network games
22:54:16 <frosch123> requrie editing openttd.cfg manually though
22:54:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] TrueBrain commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyG9
22:54:52 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we could also add baseset parameters :p
22:55:23 <TrueBrain> (sometimes 2 letters is all that is takes :P :D)
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22:56:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8456: Fix #8453: [Script] Don't truncate loan variation to 32bit https://git.io/JLyGz
22:56:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Andrew350 commented on pull request #46: Change: Use a white cursor for better visibility https://git.io/JLyGb
22:58:30 <TrueBrain> glx: isn't it more common to do bit 0..2 first, then bit 3..N ?
22:58:33 <TrueBrain> (sorry to nitpick :D)
22:58:46 <TrueBrain> not really important otherwise btw, it is clear like this :)
22:59:16 <glx> hmm yes, but in this case it's to show the direct relation with p1
22:59:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8456: Fix #8453: [Script] Don't truncate loan variation to 32bit https://git.io/JLyGx
23:00:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8456: Fix #8453: [Script] Don't truncate loan variation to 32bit https://git.io/JLyGz
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23:01:26 <TrueBrain> it -looks- okay to me, but I am not in a state to really review it :P
23:02:48 <glx> well and GS acting as AIs :)
23:37:33 <frosch123> night, till next year :)
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