IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-12-26
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06:03:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMt9
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08:25:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMOK
08:28:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMOX
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09:09:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLM3O
09:27:15 <LordAro> TrueBrain: do i have special bananas permissions?
09:27:17 <andythenorth> means I could spend time on other OpenTTD things for a bit
09:27:20 <LordAro> because i can apparently edit that
09:27:26 <andythenorth> pls don't mention CSS :P
09:27:27 <LordAro> (via that manager link)
09:27:33 <andythenorth> but are we talking about NRT yet?
09:27:47 <TrueBrain> LordAro: you do not; what do you mean, edit?
09:28:38 <TrueBrain> owh, I see, I can too
09:28:47 <LordAro> "Edit package meta data"
09:28:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLM3N
09:29:00 <LordAro> maybe the submit button doesn't work (i've not tried)
09:29:05 <LordAro> but not exactly ideal?
09:29:08 <TrueBrain> I .. honestly do not know
09:29:19 <TrueBrain> seems someone (not me :D) forgot to do a permission check before rendering the page :)
09:29:40 <TrueBrain> I am not really curious if the API denies it after all
09:30:09 <TrueBrain> for that we have staging :)
09:31:14 <LordAro> no edit button for the newgrfs on staging...
09:31:26 <LordAro> oh wait, yes there is
09:31:40 <LordAro> yeah, what you found :)
09:31:42 <TrueBrain> if you change the URL, there is :P
09:31:51 <TrueBrain> so the API does block it, it is just the webpage that renders it
09:34:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain opened issue #51: "manager" URLs not blocked for content that doesn't belong to you https://git.io/JLM3j
09:36:59 <TrueBrain> not my problem now :P
09:37:04 <TrueBrain> let someone else fix shit for once :D
09:38:45 <andythenorth> FIRS releases are weird these days
09:38:53 <andythenorth> v4 has basically been 'done' since the summer
09:39:00 <andythenorth> but I have to play 2 or so test games to be sure
09:39:09 <andythenorth> then 2 more to make sure I wasn't smoking crack
09:39:31 <LordAro> TrueBrain: brief inspection indicates that the frontend-web has no existing permission checking stuff?
09:39:54 <TrueBrain> LordAro: frosch123 wrote it; I did review it, but I really do not know these details :) Better check with him :)
09:40:13 <LordAro> frosch123: brief inspection indicates that the frontend-web has no existing permission checking stuff?
09:41:28 <andythenorth> gone are the days when I can just dump a new release of FIRS on bananas :)
09:41:41 <andythenorth> WHILST CHANGING THE ENTIRE DESIGN
09:48:11 <andythenorth> animated in game!
09:48:17 <andythenorth> should I make it a gif in docs? :P
09:50:49 <TrueBrain> and it does look pretty :D
10:07:33 <andythenorth> right that's 2 years of work shipped
10:07:39 <andythenorth> apart from actually finishing it :P
10:07:42 <TrueBrain> can a NewGRF throw a message to a user?
10:07:46 <TrueBrain> or can it only crash?
10:07:52 <andythenorth> no it can message
10:08:22 <TrueBrain> cool; so you can just say: dude, disable inflation PLEAAASSSEEE
10:08:26 <TrueBrain> instead of just refusing to work?
10:10:56 <andythenorth> fatal / non-fatal
10:11:51 <andythenorth> my TL;DR was 'more flags do no harm, if they're network safe and don't have a maintenance headache'
10:12:06 <andythenorth> trying to design the API around 'what authors _should_ be doing' is not fruitful
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10:17:06 <TrueBrain> "Sure, some people are going to disagree that a NewGRF says that, but I wonder what generates more reports: behaviour that feels like the NewGRF is broken or a message telling you it will be broken if you continue on." <- andythenorth , did I misunderstand this? (before I post a lie)
10:17:15 <TrueBrain> (this is what I want to post, parts of it)
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10:17:57 <andythenorth> no that's about right
10:18:07 <andythenorth> I thought of replying similar, but I don't want to be only voice
10:18:27 <andythenorth> I also don't exactly disagree with Eddi
10:18:35 <andythenorth> I just think there's more to the picture
10:19:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMGe
10:19:46 <TrueBrain> he is not wrong, but for me it is exactly why it is a good idea: let the ecosystem figure this one out :)
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10:49:34 <andythenorth> "Ha, ha! You 150-odd ex-Amazon folks here will of course realize immediately that #7 was a little joke I threw in, because Bezos most definitely does not give a shit about your day."
10:49:41 <andythenorth> oops, no, that's the wrong TL;DR
10:51:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMGV
10:53:32 <TrueBrain> owh well, we will see :D
10:54:26 <michi_cc> Yeah, I know that fails. I just left it enabled in the CMake file for all platforms because I wanted to see the errors :) The implementation itself is Windows only at the moment anyway.
10:54:28 <TrueBrain> it is also a test to see if that workflow works at all :D
10:54:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMGo
10:55:28 <TrueBrain> to get a windows binary, we either have to disable Mac for the release workflow in your branch, or make sure Mac passes for now .. given it is windows-only, the first might be better, as that means my run only produces Windows binaries :) (so people will not get confused :P)
10:55:46 <michi_cc> Heck, even the tiny Linux sprinkles in there are probabyl wrong. I'm using excatly one EGL function in there, but for all I know SDL might actually GLX and not EGL at all.
10:56:53 <TrueBrain> anyway, my idea was to post windows binaries in the PR, so people can test
10:56:57 <michi_cc> I do want to fix OSX build, I'm just thinking about the least ugly way. Because of course Apple GL headers declare the function pointer types differently than ALL other GL headers out there.
10:57:00 <TrueBrain> so you get a bit of feedback for how it does on different systems
10:57:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLMG6
10:58:09 <TrueBrain> (and I slowly want to work towards a "preview" label for desktop builds too, on demand :) )
10:59:00 <TrueBrain> owh, right, GHA has a starvation issue with MacOS runners for 10.11, forgot
11:00:04 <andythenorth> I want a preview label for grfs :P
11:00:13 <andythenorth> that isn't a feature request
11:00:27 <andythenorth> I'm just literally working on releasing a 'preview' of a totally unfinished grf
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11:04:43 <andythenorth> time to use black!
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11:10:19 <TrueBrain> funny, it tells me english is missing 41 strings, when starting :D
11:11:35 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: is it using OpenGL by default?
11:12:54 <michi_cc> Start with -d driver=2 or so.
11:13:55 <TrueBrain> Successfully loaded blitter '32bpp-anim'
11:14:01 <TrueBrain> Successfully loaded blitter '8bpp-optimized'
11:14:21 <michi_cc> Or force -v win32-opengl. If that works, it will also use without a specific video driver.
11:14:43 <michi_cc> Well, with the GL driver, 8bpp-optimized is the fastest blitter if you don't have any 32bpp sprites loaded.
11:14:49 <TrueBrain> dbg: [driver] Successfully probed video driver 'win32-opengl'
11:14:55 <TrueBrain> so I guess it is running opengl :)
11:15:31 <TrueBrain> can we fix the 30fps btw, I forgot how annoying that iis :D
11:15:37 <TrueBrain> (not OpenGL related)
11:16:40 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: there is no "video output" in the Frame rate with this build; that is correct?
11:16:43 <michi_cc> Actually, I'd be interested in the output of -d driver=6, even if it is really spammy for sound/music.
11:17:08 <TrueBrain> it is btw insanely fast ... it is like 10 times faster for me vs 1.10.3
11:17:13 <TrueBrain> not sure if that comparison is fair
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11:17:55 <TrueBrain> driver=6 is that spammy, that the console doesn't keep enough lines to see anything besides DLS: Reading wave ... :P
11:18:17 * andythenorth would be first in queue to test a macOS version :P
11:18:21 <michi_cc> Ahhh, PFE_VIDEO will not show anything at all because of a rebase mishap.
11:18:32 <michi_cc> Could do -s null -m null to get that spam down.
11:18:35 <TrueBrain> I found a bug :D :D
11:18:46 <michi_cc> Basically, I want to know if you get any GL driver warning messages.
11:19:36 <michi_cc> No message == good messages in this case :)
11:22:10 <michi_cc> If you load any 32bpp GRF/baseset (or force the blitter), you should get the blitter 40bpp-anim, which should be at least as fast as 32bpp-optimized, but with palette animation on.
11:25:13 <TrueBrain> with 32bpp, GDI wins over OpenGL for me
11:25:22 <TrueBrain> 4000fps for GDI, 2000fps for OpenGL
11:25:26 <TrueBrain> (nightly vs your PR btw)
11:25:47 <TrueBrain> but in the ~4000fps range, measuring becomes a bit messy :P
11:26:16 <michi_cc> Is is in fact 32bpp-optimized, or one of the SSE blitters? Because I haven't bothered doing a 40bpp SSE variant.
11:27:03 <TrueBrain> dbg: [driver] Successfully loaded blitter '32bpp-optimized'
11:27:12 <TrueBrain> (I was forcing drivers)
11:27:33 <TrueBrain> but, optimized doesn't do animation ;)
11:27:36 <TrueBrain> so that is not completely fair
11:28:21 <TrueBrain> it outperforms 32bpp-sse2-anim for me with a mile
11:28:34 <TrueBrain> (in favour of OpenGL)
11:28:35 <michi_cc> Yeah, the 40bpp blitter has to copy one byte more for each pixel around, even if the actual palette animation is done in the video backend.
11:29:20 <michi_cc> I.e. the blitter itself has to do nothing on palette cycling, but just tell the graphics card to redraw the blitter texture to the screen.
11:29:40 <TrueBrain> for me, OpenGL is so much faster
11:29:45 <TrueBrain> (in any fair comparison)
11:29:48 <michi_cc> This might in fact even explain the 2000fps, it might simply hit the maxmimum command rate the driver can handle.
11:30:04 <TrueBrain> but really ... 60 Hz or 144 Hz refresh would be nice
11:30:09 <TrueBrain> everything feels so sluggy :(
11:30:27 <TrueBrain> airplanes bounce in the air on my screens :P
11:30:38 <TrueBrain> (I am spoiled with 144 Hz screens ... you start to notice these kind of lags)
11:30:52 <TrueBrain> will not be easy to change OpenTTD from 30fps to 60fps :P
11:31:12 <michi_cc> Technically speaking, with the OpenGL video driver, the mouse cursor at least is handled by the backend and could in theory (if the input loop was faster) be refreshed more often.
11:31:16 <LordAro> gui is uncoupled though, right?
11:31:28 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it is the movement of the airplane that is the issue
11:31:32 <TrueBrain> so it feels really shoppy
11:31:44 <TrueBrain> I do not think that running the GUI loop itself will fix that, honestly
11:31:56 <michi_cc> Which is also totally unnecessary, but I just included it to see what one could do with OpenGL on the backend.
11:32:29 <TrueBrain> well, I am really curious what this does to FPS on MacOS :)
11:32:41 <TrueBrain> and I guess we need a bit more people testing this
11:32:48 <TrueBrain> my hardware might not be a good representation :P
11:33:12 <TrueBrain> i7-8700K CPU with GTX 1080 :P
11:37:12 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: added some text to my comment what I tested and I think others should; let me know if you disagree :)
11:38:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the nightly seems to be a debug release, as in: shift is fastforward .. any idea why this would be?
11:38:38 <TrueBrain> RelWithDebInfo should select a release build, not?
11:39:56 <TrueBrain> I guess _DEBUG is defined somehow
11:40:16 <michi_cc> I'm not sure how much use the fast-forward number is. I would expect that to be quite low for many people, as the OGL driver will push a frame out to the graphics card, while the GDI compositor in Windows might just say: "Don't care until next screen refresh".
11:40:43 <TrueBrain> so, better to look at the "ms" it takes to render, I guess?
11:40:50 <TrueBrain> in that case you first need to fix the performance counter :D :P
11:41:13 <michi_cc> The interesting test cohort is people who struggle with video framerate with full animation and/or 32bpp in normal mode.
11:42:49 <orudge> I can test things on macOS, but I will generally be away from a PC until January
11:43:00 <orudge> Hence my quietness this week :)
11:43:11 <orudge> (if anybody needs anything, e-mail me!)
11:43:12 <TrueBrain> hmm, -D_DEBUG Is only added for CONFIG:Debug .. so why does it add this for MSVC ...
11:43:24 <TrueBrain> orudge: we will; merry xmas :D
11:44:38 <TrueBrain> on Linux it seems to be doing the right thing
11:45:53 <TrueBrain> seems the MSVC action is not doing what we think it does :P
11:47:18 <Samu> can I create a branch in the middle of a rebase?
11:47:40 <TrueBrain> hard to tell what CMake does here, as we do not output the information :D
11:49:07 <TrueBrain> cmakeBuildType only works with CMakeListsTxtBasic
11:49:12 <TrueBrain> we use CMakeListsTxtAdvanced
11:51:20 <Samu> i think i found a bug in the Select AI window
11:54:16 <andythenorth> ok so as expected 7744 fails to build for me
11:54:28 <andythenorth> is the failure output useful right now, or just waste of time?
11:55:11 <TrueBrain> as you were told LONG before it does fail, and that is deliberate, and is on the todo :)
11:55:22 <TrueBrain> the CI told you, the release told you, I told you, and the author told you :D
11:55:40 <TrueBrain> I appreciate you trying anyway <3 :)
11:55:58 <andythenorth> it's an abundance of keen-ness
11:56:09 <TrueBrain> "maybe it works for me!" :P
11:57:07 <andythenorth> I shall go and fix newgrf bugs
11:57:17 <LordAro> TrueBrain: honestly not sure, i was just copying the existing azure as best as i could
11:57:26 <andythenorth> well if I start with 1
11:57:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah, I found the issue ... the Action is a bit weird
11:57:39 <andythenorth> either all will be done, or I'll die
11:57:39 <TrueBrain> totally undocumented what is Basic and what is Advanced, tbh :P
11:57:56 <andythenorth> or zeno's paradox manifests
11:58:13 <TrueBrain> LordAro: running a test now to see if my fix fixes it, but it should :) Just happy we caught it now :D
11:58:14 <LordAro> oh, the basic/advanced thing? yeah, bit weird
11:58:21 <TrueBrain> that would have been the slowest windows 1.11 build ever :P
11:58:33 <LordAro> it was fine initially, then i had to add msvc/ninja support or something
11:58:46 <TrueBrain> his default example uses Advanced
11:58:59 <TrueBrain> but okay :) I think this should work :D
11:59:12 <TrueBrain> tempted to fix the warning too ... I just have to force it to use another tar.exe ..
11:59:49 <michi_cc> Okay, performance counter fix incoming (and also first stab and getting OSX to pass the compiler [still no function at all])
12:00:44 <michi_cc> orudge: You'd have to implement OpenGL on OSX first before you can test anything :D
12:02:01 <michi_cc> andythenorth: There is literally zero OSX OpenGL code in there right now. Even if it would compiler, it would literally do nothing for you. First somebody has to rewrite the Cocoa video driver to account for this.
12:02:49 <andythenorth> I would volunteer to do that, but let's be....realistic :)
12:04:17 <michi_cc> orudge: Does ARM OSX even have OpenGL anymore or is everybody supposed to be using Metal by now?
12:07:17 <michi_cc> Well, it's been deprecated for years, so... I mean, I would alternatively use Vulkan, but as that is also multi-platform...
12:10:10 <Samu> TrueBrain, bug is confirmed after all.
12:13:58 <TrueBrain> so happy we now made them for (.. : ..), as that i++ really was hiding .. holy crap
12:14:07 <TrueBrain> I don't even feel bad for missing that
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12:24:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8435: Fix: [Actions] cmakeBuildType is only used with CMakeListsTxtBasic https://git.io/JLMnx
12:24:25 <TrueBrain> tested and everything ^^ :)
12:29:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8435: Fix: [Actions] cmakeBuildType is only used with CMakeListsTxtBasic https://git.io/JLMcJ
12:30:55 <LordAro> just for fun, i am rebasing JGR's save_ext branch against (our) master
12:31:08 <TrueBrain> that would be very nice :D
12:31:23 <LordAro> i'm only on the first commit :p
12:31:42 <LordAro> it'll still require a lot of work, but will be nice to have it in an even vaguely PRable form
12:32:45 <LordAro> it's 5 years worth of merge commits at the moment
12:32:59 <LordAro> (on top of the old svn-git commits too)
12:33:18 <TrueBrain> not easier to cherry-pick the commits from his current master?
12:34:19 <LordAro> well that's effectively what i'm doing
12:34:27 <LordAro> took me a while to work out the correct rebase command though
12:34:46 <TrueBrain> haha, I can imagine :) Do share that btw plzzzz :D
12:34:54 <TrueBrain> there is more in JGR that is worth pickling out :P
12:37:27 * andythenorth wonders what convention exists
12:49:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8435: Fix: [Actions] cmakeBuildType is only used with CMakeListsTxtBasic https://git.io/JLMnx
12:49:23 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: ha, you found the right header :D Nice :D
12:50:43 <michi_cc> Well, the wonders of modern technology :) I've VPN'ed to my home network, booted my PC with wake-on-lan, remote-desktoped in and started a VMware session :p
12:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> why do we have vietnamese spambots?
12:52:59 <michi_cc> I initially had the older gl.h in there as gl3.h came only on OSX version whatever, but as we threw them all out with c++11/17 anyway, it doesn't matter anymore.
12:56:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8436: Fix f66baa44: for-loop is no longer increasing "i" https://git.io/JLMcg
12:56:46 <TrueBrain> as Samu disappeared when we suggested he should PR it, the PR to fix the bug :)
13:03:59 * andythenorth wonders if CC_OVERSIZED, CC_POWDERIZED etc are ever used for newgrf cargos ever ever
13:04:42 * andythenorth adds them to FIRS anyway
13:04:54 <andythenorth> if they're not provided, how could anybody ever use them? :P
13:08:55 <andythenorth> CC_HAZARDOUS in train = coaches with armed guards needed
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13:11:14 <LordAro> TrueBrain: thus far the majority of the conflicts are NULL -> nullptr related
13:11:23 <LordAro> and Peter's uint16 -> SaveLoadVersion stuff
13:11:30 <TrueBrain> that is not too bad :)
13:11:58 <TrueBrain> would be funny, if we can load JGR games given they don't use features we don't have :P
13:12:17 <LordAro> i'm only checking the compile so far, not checking that anything actually works ;)
13:12:20 <TrueBrain> it does require us to align naming feature-toggles btw
13:14:01 <LordAro> would we be adding any feature toggles at all?
13:14:15 <LordAro> as i understand it, wouldn't we continue just bumping the savegame version number?
13:17:03 <TrueBrain> well, doesn't this kinda replace version numbers?
13:17:53 <TrueBrain> but okay, I filled in how I would like to use it; maybe better to just ask you first: why are you porting this over? What future to you see with it :D
13:17:59 <LordAro> yes, i suppose it does
13:18:22 <TrueBrain> one of those "to" should be "do" ofc; feel free to figure out which :P
13:18:52 <LordAro> aligning feature flags would only be necessary if we actually (for some unknown reason) want the ability to load JGR games in vanilla
13:18:58 <LordAro> which i can't imagine we'd ever get to
13:19:11 <LordAro> not that there's any particular reason to diverge, of course
13:19:16 <TrueBrain> what I mean, say, we use a feature JGR has, we should not rename the feature-toggle in the savegame all of a sudden :)
13:19:43 <TrueBrain> "just because we don't like the name" or whatever childish reason we can have :P
13:21:38 <TrueBrain> looking at the trees PR .. very tempted to implement a true "drag" mode
13:21:45 <TrueBrain> where you can just draw trees as if it was a canva
13:21:48 <LordAro> JGR is "just" a patchpack, remember. If we were to include feature xyz, we'd add feature-toggle xyz. If this feature is in *some other version* we would want to check whether an existing name exists or something
13:21:50 <TrueBrain> instead of this rectangle approach ..
13:22:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: exactly, we need to be a bit more aware of patchpacks; which is a good thing btw
13:22:46 <TrueBrain> of course JGR can fix-up any different name we use for the same feature, but it would be weird :P
13:24:09 <LordAro> the way i see it - someone writes a patch that requires a new savegame "feature". Instead of bumping the savegame version, they add their own XYZ_FEATURE toggle switch. Then the process for this patch getting added to JGR/vanilla/wherever is the same - just include the patch
13:25:01 <TrueBrain> it would mean that we are no longer bound to time (as in, savegame versions can only go up with new features atm)
13:25:07 <TrueBrain> it would be really nice :D
13:25:31 <TrueBrain> so we can have feature-branches, if we would like, without breaking savegames :D
13:25:38 <TrueBrain> now I am just being silly :P
13:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> how would you handle if some feature depended on another feature?
13:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> say, there are two patches who introduce signal type 6. patchpack integrator moves one of them to signal type 7
13:29:52 <LordAro> features can still be mutually incompatible, not a lot we can do about that
13:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (you can find pieces of these things happening in the past in afterload)
13:29:57 <LordAro> e.g. using different map array bits
13:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the patches might be incompatible. the features are compatible
13:32:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8436: Fix f66baa44: for-loop is no longer increasing "i" https://git.io/JLMCH
13:32:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8436: Fix f66baa44: for-loop is no longer increasing "i" https://git.io/JLMcg
13:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but now you have feature A using signal type 6, feature B using signal type 6, and feature B using signal type 7
13:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> now lets imagine we put feature B (standalone version) in master
13:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> patchpack author now has to decide whether the savegame using feature B was using his patchpack version (signal type 7), or master version (signal type 6)
13:38:18 <TrueBrain> DRAGGING WORKS! And it is freaking awesome :D \o/
13:38:42 <TrueBrain> but my glasses are dirty and I cannot get them clean .. ugh, going to try again .. fucking annoying
13:38:49 * LordAro spams the approve button
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13:41:04 <JGR> Eddi: This is why the feature entries have a version number, if a patchpack author were to change the map representation (signal number or whatever) they would also bump the version of that feature, or add another feature for map representation changes.
13:42:00 <JGR> The issue then becomes who "owns" the version namespace for that feature.
13:42:22 <TrueBrain> assert(_game_mode = GM_EDITOR); <- do you think that was intended by the author :D Lol .. that is a nasty bug .. :D
13:42:44 * andythenorth shivers, brr, XML namespaces
13:44:27 <andythenorth> ok am I helping do PRs, or starting Road Hog rebuild for NRT? :P
13:44:34 * andythenorth could go either way
13:44:51 <TrueBrain> pretty sure there is not a lot you can do to help with PRs, so I would do the latter ;)
13:45:28 <LordAro> JGR: for Reasons, i am rebasing your save_ext branch against master
13:45:42 <LordAro> oh wait, you're hear because you were reading the logs :D
13:45:58 <TrueBrain> its a day-job, I am sure :D
13:46:42 <LordAro> making reasonable progress
13:46:53 <TrueBrain> the reading of the backlogs, I meant :P
13:46:57 <LordAro> but now, leftover-christmas-dinner-lunch
13:49:48 <TrueBrain> meh, I do not think I can do this dragging mode outside SE
13:49:53 <TrueBrain> it would fire so many DoCommands :D
14:08:57 <Samu> I have a problem trying to convert this piece of code to what you call of "C++11 standard"
14:10:13 <Samu> because of the iterator, I don't think I can use the auto
14:15:58 <Samu> but I am deleting the item during the loop
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14:17:07 <Samu> it's a different issue that that you link
14:17:39 <TrueBrain> you cannot upload a mkv to GitHub, only a mp4 .. wtf
14:18:41 <JGR> Changing the type of SettingValueList to not require all the manual memory management would probably make more of an impact in terms of C++11 style than mechanically converting loops
14:19:45 <JGR> That's probably out of scope for a feature PR though
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14:26:24 <Samu> sorry I don't understand jack of what you said :|
14:27:49 <andythenorth> "improve things upstream" :P
14:29:44 <andythenorth> "paint rocks also or go home"
14:29:52 <Samu> you guys really like trees
14:31:41 <TrueBrain> just look at that movie I made :D
14:31:48 <TrueBrain> I am so happy I can make a movie now :P
14:33:20 <TrueBrain> it was also a lot easier than I expected :D
14:35:07 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain looks nice
14:36:36 <supermop_Home> this is one of those patches where the result is " I would have expected that's how it was supposed to work from the beginning "
14:36:49 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I did too :P
14:36:59 <TrueBrain> couldn't believe we were still using drag&drop :P
14:37:20 <supermop_Home> next: custom brush libraries like in photoshop
14:37:34 <frosch123> did you draw a debian or a zerg logo?
14:37:36 <TrueBrain> but ... this opens a door ... I expect more requests after this for this dragging behavior
14:37:46 <TrueBrain> like for terraforming
14:38:00 <supermop_Home> or pen-pressure sensitivity for tree density :P
14:38:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: haha, no :)
14:38:33 <frosch123> it lost against diagonal terraform
14:39:01 <TrueBrain> what am I looking at
14:39:06 <TrueBrain> that thread is ... difficult to understand :)
14:39:30 <frosch123> it's adding "drag-draw by holding ctrl" to many tools
14:39:43 <frosch123> but then ctrl-drag was used for diagonal selections
14:40:08 <frosch123> not-enough-modifier-keys or something
14:40:11 <TrueBrain> well, I did wonder if I should implement a key to get rectangle back in SE
14:40:17 <TrueBrain> not sure if that is useful
14:41:06 <frosch123> but from the first screenshot you can see: terraform, rivers, rough land, demolish
14:41:28 <TrueBrain> well, the idea is sensible :)
14:41:34 <TrueBrain> for trees it is most obvious :)
14:41:43 <TrueBrain> it works only for SE btw, these kind of things
14:41:55 <TrueBrain> nearly impossible to make this in a sane way for multiplayer
14:42:13 <frosch123> smatz wanted multiplayer-scenario editor :)
14:42:44 <supermop_Home> mp scenario editor could be fun for insane people like me and my brother
14:42:57 <frosch123> that's why we get a command to create a new town. making it accessible in-game was an afterthought :p
14:43:15 <supermop_Home> who would spend the whole time trying to fix hydrologically incorrect valleys
14:44:24 <supermop_Home> oooh drag brush for found town!
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15:11:06 <supermop_Home> andythenorth what should this hotel look like?
15:11:15 <andythenorth> like the one in the proper baseset :P
15:11:24 <andythenorth> only not copyright infringing
15:12:17 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I've rebased the GL branch on top of the last CI fix (and working performance window), does it make sense to regenerate the exe?
15:12:26 <supermop_Home> hmm not sure ive ever seen it as ive never played anything other than temperate in foster base set
15:12:57 <supermop_Home> so its supposed to be some kind of ski lodge resort type thing?
15:14:21 <glx> I just did quick testing with a debug build in VS (not even tried fast forward) and opengl-win32 feels faster than win32
15:16:40 <michi_cc> Who wants to figure that OpenGL stuff out for Linux? :p
15:17:14 <TrueBrain> I don't want to, but I guess SDL supports it sufficiently that it should not be "too difficult" :P
15:17:21 <supermop_Home> this roaster is listing their quantity of coffee sold as "5/16 KG"
15:17:35 <TrueBrain> SDL also runs on Windows michi_cc , so you might as well figure this out :D :D :D
15:18:02 <andythenorth> supermop_Home does seem to be only arctic
15:18:13 <andythenorth> so yeah, it's a ski-lodge / chalet type thing
15:18:44 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: But it would still use WGL functions, and not GLX or EGL, which is the stuff that needs figuring out.
15:18:45 <supermop_Home> i guess that's why i always looked so bizarre to me in F
15:19:09 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: it is way too long ago for me I did anything with GL to remember what that all means :P
15:19:25 <glx> oh no I'll get free HL with opengl discussion ;)
15:19:30 <supermop_Home> the base set layout is always 1x2 tiles?
15:19:33 <michi_cc> It means the OS specific part of OpenGL.
15:19:42 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: doesn't SDL handle that?
15:19:47 <andythenorth> supermop_Home yes
15:20:04 <michi_cc> Maybe, somewhat, no idea :) I don't program for Linux.
15:20:04 <andythenorth> I worked there for 3 months, view never got old
15:20:12 <TrueBrain> SDL is not Linux-only :)
15:20:45 <supermop_Home> see, most of the candian, new York, or swiss ones i'd think of are like 3-12 floors
15:20:59 <supermop_Home> the 2 floors of the existing sprite look really weird
15:21:18 <TrueBrain> (I can also just dive into your PR and figure out myself, but it just easier to ask :D)
15:21:24 <Samu> I don't know how to make this code c++11 style
15:21:31 <supermop_Home> also needs to be slope aware so balconies face uphill
15:22:42 <andythenorth> ogfx is base set eh :P
15:22:53 <supermop_Home> if it could be broken into two 1x1 chunks, would that be helpful for reusing in other situations
15:23:06 * andythenorth wonders what else is offensive in ogfx
15:23:21 <supermop_Home> most of the tropic buildings?
15:23:28 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Yeah, at least the initial part with all the SDL_GL_* calls. The pure gl calls should "just work" :)
15:23:48 <supermop_Home> temperate is mostly fine except for a couple
15:24:00 <TrueBrain> and of course we could also add a more raw device driver for Linux, but ugh ... not sure we want to deal with that :)
15:24:10 <TrueBrain> I am curious if emscripten performance improves with OpenGL too
15:24:12 <supermop_Home> like the capsule tower having flat tops of the core towers
15:24:25 <TrueBrain> anyway, michi_cc , I can give this a look next week :)
15:24:25 <michi_cc> Also, somebody needs to decide how to handle the "OpenGL not working" path. For win32, I've split the video driver into two variants, as that was easier to handle in the code.
15:24:28 <andythenorth> supermop_Home let's not look too hard, it all unravels :)
15:24:48 <supermop_Home> the suspended tube building looks a bit naff
15:24:50 <andythenorth> minimap font though oof
15:24:51 <michi_cc> It also allows an easy fallback for OpenGL not working/not good enough, as OTTD will simply try the next video driver.
15:24:57 <supermop_Home> but kind of does in foster too
15:25:15 <TrueBrain> well, finding machines that do not support OpenGL these days can be very hard
15:25:26 <TrueBrain> so not sure if it is required; but it is good to have as a first step :)
15:25:40 <andythenorth> wtf is the ogfx minimap font lower case for?
15:25:48 <andythenorth> did we worry about getting too close to original?
15:26:11 <michi_cc> For windows it definitly is, not because machines could not handle OGL, but because many many machines will not have the proper graphics drivers installed.
15:26:51 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: do you have stats for that? as I cannot imagine there are that many machines without an proper driver loaded these days :)
15:26:56 <TrueBrain> especially those that play games
15:27:06 <michi_cc> Windows Update driver installation mostly only cares about DirectX, proper current GL is not always included in that.
15:27:14 <supermop_Home> andythenorth does this Canada hotel have a range of dates its build in?
15:27:36 <andythenorth> I'll look if grf spec knows
15:28:17 <andythenorth> 1972 I think earliest
15:28:25 <andythenorth> has snow / non-snow variants
15:29:03 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: anyway, having both drivers is the best option for now for sure :) Means we can never have a regression there :)
15:29:19 <TrueBrain> for SDL we can do the same, I guess
15:29:26 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Newly-build PCs will have drivers, but there are still people that ask about OTTD for Win9x and so on.
15:29:42 <TrueBrain> well, we have to say some day: guys, no, just no :)
15:29:48 <TrueBrain> we did that for win9x already ;)
15:30:12 <TrueBrain> but there is no harm keeping it for now, so this is more a hypothetical :D
15:30:19 <frosch123> do wasm and android have opengl?
15:30:24 <TrueBrain> we need telemetry ....
15:30:33 <TrueBrain> frosch123: WebAssembly and WebGL are good friends
15:30:41 <michi_cc> Right now the required baseline for the GL PR is OpenGL core profile 3.2 (or the equivalent in ARB extensions).
15:30:59 <michi_cc> frosch123: It's OpenGLES though, which is almost the same but not quite.
15:31:45 <frosch123> hmm, didn't osx ban opengl? i can't remember
15:31:56 <TrueBrain> welcome to 3 hours ago :D :D :)
15:32:18 <michi_cc> And the choice of 3.2 was because that is the version Apple supports (een if declared dprecated). And frankly, for a pure blitter driver, there's no need for anything more fancy.
15:32:23 <frosch123> i have no idea about this stuff. i also thought we got rid of 32bit targets, but now we have wasm?
15:32:58 <Samu> sorry for interrupting, I don't know how to update this to C++ style 11
15:33:04 <andythenorth> one day I am patching game to remove crossing bells in title screen
15:33:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we got rid of 32bit targets? One of our most beloved devs was moving hell and earth because he wanted the farm to build 32bit linux versions :P
15:33:07 <michi_cc> I'm using a single ARB extension that is not in 3.2, but just provides a small performance boost and not having it does no harm.
15:33:45 * andythenorth busy removing all coop and bundles references from FIRS, there are craploads in translations
15:33:55 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i missed that episode of the newsletter :)
15:34:16 <TrueBrain> well, in the end his efforts failed, so there is that :P
15:34:22 <TrueBrain> but we also still build win32
15:34:41 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Make a note for the next livestream: Discussion about random platforms people play/want to play OTTD on.
15:35:13 <TrueBrain> `INTERPROCEDURAL_OPTIMIZATION property will be ignored for target 'openttd'.`
15:35:15 <andythenorth> silly AWS Route53 + cloudfront website
15:35:21 <TrueBrain> CMake is telling me on MacOS
15:35:25 <andythenorth> no way to have a default / route to index.html
15:35:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8427: Add: [NewGRF] Patch flag to test if inflation is on or off. https://git.io/JLM8d
15:35:58 <michi_cc> It's telling me that on Windows, too. And that I can suppress that with -Wno-dev because it is apparently on for CMakeList writers :)
15:36:18 <TrueBrain> I wonder what is causing that :)
15:40:26 <TrueBrain> okay, PR release almost worked ... one minor boo-boo
15:40:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #11: Fix: openttd-pullrequests is renamed into openttd-branches https://git.io/JLM4I
15:40:50 <TrueBrain> that should fix that :D
15:41:09 <milek7> >well, finding machines that do not support OpenGL these days can be very hard
15:41:34 <milek7> there are *a lot* of machines which have only opengl 2.0 or something
15:44:37 <TrueBrain> I cannot approve my own PR, bah :P
15:47:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #11: Fix: openttd-pullrequests is renamed into openttd-branches https://git.io/JLM4I
15:48:01 <TrueBrain> nothing I cannot overrule myself :D
15:54:01 <andythenorth> makes find+replace for whole lines so much more reliable
15:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <milek7> there are *a lot* of machines which have only opengl 2.0 or something <-- why is this a problem? are we removing support for non-opengl versions?
15:57:15 <milek7> it isn't, I'm just commenting about "finding machines that do not support OpenGL these days can be very hard"
15:58:39 <LordAro> TrueBrain: did you archive the compilefarm repo, btw?
15:59:19 <TrueBrain> I did not cleanup on GitHub, no
16:03:22 <TrueBrain> LordAro: but as you mentioned it, did just now :) Still curious why this pop'd in your mind :D
16:04:49 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: new release created, updated your description with the link :)
16:05:33 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i saw the workflow repo PR and thought of it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:05:45 <TrueBrain> LordAro: :D Let me check if Azure is also disabled etc
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16:07:34 <TrueBrain> they are disabled, but I cannot delete them because .. Azure
16:07:56 <TrueBrain> "One or more builds associated with the requested pipeline(s) are retained by a release. The pipeline(s) and builds will not be deleted."
16:07:59 <TrueBrain> all releases are deleted :P
16:10:30 <TrueBrain> had to release a lease on 20+ items, by clicking 6 times for each
16:10:33 <TrueBrain> well, it is gone now
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16:10:49 <TrueBrain> now, time for xmas dinner #3 :D
16:12:12 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: btw, new release are not automatically created for PRs; you have to start the workflow yourself (or I can, ofc). Not sure yet if we want that automated like as with emscripten previews :)
16:15:29 <milek7> not sure if this is Wine specific issue
16:15:46 <milek7> but opengl builds have huge lag on scrolling
16:23:04 <glx> [16:36:18] <TrueBrain> I wonder what is causing that :) <-- min cmake version 3.5 IIRC, somehow CMP0069 is reset between our testing and setting it to NEW and INTERPROCEDURAL_OPTIMIZATION stuff
16:26:12 <michi_cc> milek7: I can only say that I don't see anything that extreme with my native setup. Scrolling is more or less the same as without OGL for me (which is expected, as scrolling is mostly the blitter, not the video driver).
16:26:26 <glx> there's no warning if min version is set to 3.9 as CMP0069 defaults to NEW then
16:34:21 <milek7> michi_cc: without persistent buffer mapping, it works fine
16:35:38 <milek7> that could be mesa bug as well
16:35:54 <milek7> but why it would only affect scrolling?
16:36:35 <michi_cc> Well, might be your system in general or only via Wine, but I guess for stuff like that you'd have to provide some whe nto use heuristic. Like any big game does for hundreds of different graphics features.
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16:37:52 <michi_cc> It might be a bad feature on Linux in general. Heck, even with my very limited windows test hardware, I see that is improves things for NVidia hardware and is +- 0 for Intel graphics.
16:39:46 <LordAro> TrueBrain: found a bug :)
16:39:49 <LordAro> another win for the preview
16:48:25 <andythenorth> that ogfx cursor :)
16:48:33 * andythenorth has the big fat grey cursor
16:50:57 <TooTallTyler> And a very nice hat on the company window button
16:51:17 <milek7> michi_cc: on windows, it seems it is slightly slower than software on AMD hardware
16:51:29 <milek7> but no catastrophic failure like on my linux desktop
16:51:43 <michi_cc> With or without persistent buffers?
16:51:55 <michi_cc> No AMD hardware around to test with.
16:53:31 <michi_cc> In general, you were running pure 8bpp graphics, maybe even with the 8bpp blitter, don't expect that much change. The difference should be most apparent on for 32bpp with full animation on.
16:53:52 <milek7> it is meant to be vsynced or no?
16:54:52 <michi_cc> It's not, at least if the driver exposes the appropiate call. With all the modern stuff like variable refresh rates, vsyncing is mostly not advantageuous.
16:56:18 <milek7> with fast forward, on linux box I get some 800fps in fps window
16:56:53 <milek7> on windows laptop I get only 60, both on integrated AMD and switchable Nvidia gpu
16:57:11 <milek7> on integrated it dips to 40 during scrolling though
16:57:15 <milek7> it stays on 60 on nvidia
16:59:35 <michi_cc> Are you runnign windowed? If yes, the windows compositor might still do a vsync behind your back, or you have it on in the driver specific settings/overrides.
17:37:32 <Samu> is there a way I can download older versions of my AI on bananas? can I make my AI depend on older versions of my AI so that I can get them all downloaded? will this trick work?
17:42:21 <LordAro> #define SDTG_GENERAL2(name, sdt_cmd, sle_cmd, type, flags, guiflags, var, length, def, min, max, interval, full, str, strhelp, strval, proc, from, to, cat, extver, patxname, orderproc)
17:42:25 <LordAro> you have to wonder whether a macro is getting *too* general
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17:47:15 <Samu> nope, can't trick bananas into downloading my old stuff
17:50:50 <andythenorth> it's all on github no no?
17:53:50 <andythenorth> not sure you can just write an API client though
17:54:35 <Samu> turns out it doesn't actually download version 1
17:54:45 <glx> only libs can be deps I think
17:55:36 <Samu> visual studio is receiving a dependency count of 3
17:56:48 <Samu> i guess the server is either not updating on real time, or this added dependecy is rejected before sending the INFOs
17:58:05 <Samu> smart server, doesn't let itself be fooled :p
18:04:10 <andythenorth> FIRS compiles so fast
18:04:16 <andythenorth> I should work on it more
18:04:22 <andythenorth> it's more fun than Horse
18:04:30 <andythenorth> oof then it would get bigger and slower
18:04:32 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
18:07:38 <supermop_Home> andythenorth can firs use the temperate hotel sprite?
18:07:50 <andythenorth> it could but the hotel is out of town
18:08:00 <andythenorth> FIRS I can fix, but I really want to fix opengfx
18:08:13 <andythenorth> since I joined discord, I keep seeing it in screenshots
18:08:18 <andythenorth> it's really really really awful
18:08:50 <supermop_Home> i very rarely play artic games so i'd never seen it other than in firs
18:09:13 <supermop_Home> i feel like some Lake Placid hotels could work
18:09:39 <supermop_Home> ideally it would have bridge recoloring magic
18:09:53 <supermop_Home> so it could be wood or brick or whatever
18:16:34 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:36:21 <supermop_Home> i guess i need a resource of ogfx graphics / art standards
18:37:24 <supermop_Home> to get a feel for the style of opengfx arctic. Or maybe a primer on the simon foster arctic sprites
18:43:59 <andythenorth> ogfx art: apply large amounts of dither
18:44:08 <andythenorth> from non-adjacent parts of the palette
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19:14:23 <TrueBrain> nevermind ^^ LordAro , I still cannot reproduce it, but I have an idea what you might been seeing :)
19:16:00 <andythenorth> I couldn't repro it in WASM
19:16:11 <andythenorth> then the slanted ogfx cursor traumatised me and I had to leave
19:16:35 * andythenorth would buy the original baseset sprites if there was anyone to sell them :P
19:17:09 <LordAro> well now i can't reproduce it either
19:17:20 <TrueBrain> it depends on your last highlighter
19:17:35 <TrueBrain> so you didn't do what you described, but you clicked something else first, I am guessing :)
19:17:44 <TrueBrain> like putting down rails, I guess, would do it :)
19:17:56 <TrueBrain> I fixed it now, I think :)
19:18:16 <TrueBrain> yeah, put down a road first
19:18:46 <LordAro> i don't recall doing anything else :p
19:19:33 <TrueBrain> there had to be another drawmode in new_drawmode for this bug to happen
19:19:44 <TrueBrain> but what-ever, it is fixed :D
19:21:24 <TrueBrain> I also changed it to always be a rectangle now, instead of a dot
19:21:26 <TrueBrain> makes more sense :)
19:22:41 <TrueBrain> be careful with that!
19:26:20 <TrueBrain> I am still shocked it was this easy to add dragging to the game :D
19:27:28 <TrueBrain> I btw made it so it never sends a drag event on the same tile twice, but that is fully a choice
19:27:36 <TrueBrain> the other option is to limit how often it does a drag event
19:27:46 <TrueBrain> but it feels okay to me like this, so I went for this approach :D
19:28:20 <Wolf01> Drag tiles? Finally I can finish my terrain brush patch
19:28:45 <TrueBrain> it was only like 5 lines of code, but yes, you can :P And I already suggested I expect someone to do so :)
19:29:07 <TrueBrain> but, it is something that really is only safe to do in the SE .. ingame is a lot more tricky
19:29:45 <andythenorth> not needed in game anyway
19:29:53 <andythenorth> I mean, nice things are nice
19:30:02 <andythenorth> but take the SE win
19:30:04 * LordAro finally completes the rebase
19:30:13 <LordAro> no idea whether any of it works, but it compiles!
19:30:23 <TrueBrain> what could POSSIBLY go wrong :D
19:30:40 <Wolf01> I think I'll need to redo it from the beginning, even the UI needs to change
19:31:03 <TrueBrain> and new deployment is ready; don't forget to reload to get the fresh version :)
19:34:35 <Wolf01> Hmmm, I don't think the new dragging will solve my patch problem :(
19:36:25 <TrueBrain> funny, you cannot "close" discussions
19:36:30 <TrueBrain> I can only either delete them or lock them
19:53:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/Jexqi
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20:43:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #179: Fix: openttd-pullrequests is now named openttd-branches https://git.io/JLMrB
20:43:45 <TrueBrain> I rename one thing, and 3 things break .. nice!
20:44:01 <TrueBrain> anyone feels like some quick review credits? :D
20:48:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 approved pull request #179: Fix: openttd-pullrequests is now named openttd-branches https://git.io/JLMrr
20:49:04 <frosch123> i was looking for a diff :)
20:49:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #179: Fix: openttd-pullrequests is now named openttd-branches https://git.io/JLMrB
20:49:37 <frosch123> yeah, that confused me :)
20:50:15 <frosch123> and then there was no approve button... but i just did not login today yet
20:51:14 <frosch123> oh dear, samu broke bananas
20:51:54 <frosch123> ah, no, i just cannot read diffs
20:52:37 <TrueBrain> This is very simple AI that was written while I was ill due to having covid-19.
20:52:37 <TrueBrain> I spent only two partial days working on it, therefore it really is intended to be simple.
20:52:40 <TrueBrain> That is just briliant :)
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21:36:44 <Samu> so many of my closed PRs are just because I fail to describe them or make them easier to review
21:38:03 <Samu> and then there's some where I over explain the issues and things get derailed, confusing
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22:19:13 <andythenorth> town messages window
22:19:15 <andythenorth> that could be a thing
22:19:50 <andythenorth> current town window tries to cram in loads of stuff
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22:34:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout https://git.io/JLMPY
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23:25:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout https://git.io/JLMPY
23:33:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8437: Airports: Improper aircraft movement when the northernmost airport tile is not part of the layout https://git.io/JLMPY
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