IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-12-15
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01:14:46 <milek7> TrueBrain: bananas websocket is not yet running, right?
02:02:30 <milek7> it should have some ability to connect with 1.10.3 servers
02:21:40 <milek7> oh, and c++17 changes broke building on stretch
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06:00:57 <ekangmonyet> Hi! Just came across openTTD and decided to try. The audio doesn't work with my pulseaudio, it seems like an old problem but I can't find any solution around.
06:01:50 <ekangmonyet> It keeps complaining: ALSA lib ....(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave. Even though I tried specifying SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulseaudio / having pulseaudio-alsa installed
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07:27:49 <gregdek> Does anyone have any information on running a NoAI tournament server?
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07:56:41 <LordAro> ekangmonyet: usually the issue is a missing midi player (fluidsynth/timidity), rather than any issue with pulseaudio/alsa
07:57:08 <LordAro> make sure a music/sound set is actually selected, too
07:57:17 <LordAro> won't play anything otherwise ;)
08:00:08 <ekangmonyet> i have both timidity and fluidsynth installed, I tried using the openmsx package from AUR too
08:01:00 <LordAro> make sure it's actually selected in game
08:05:46 <LordAro> (you only need 1 of the midi players, fluidsynth is generally preferred these days)
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08:10:59 <ekangmonyet> Ah I see, I totally missed that one out
08:11:07 <ekangmonyet> but the music is still not playing
08:11:26 <ekangmonyet> the player keeps going through the whole playlist
08:12:43 <ekangmonyet> i fed the midi file to mpv it worked fine
08:16:44 <ekangmonyet> ah I saw this on github issue, let me try debugging
08:17:51 <LordAro> going through the whole playlist implies missing midi support
08:18:27 <LordAro> presumably the package has actually been compiled with support for it
08:20:18 <TrueBrain> Freepats installed? Or what as the package with midi synths
08:23:29 <ekangmonyet> yep got it working after i specified the path to the soundfonts file
08:23:57 <ekangmonyet> im gonna explore this for a while heh
08:24:49 <LordAro> getting midi working is such a common problem, we could probably add more warning windows for these scenarios
08:26:08 <ekangmonyet> i am interested to help too
08:26:37 <ekangmonyet> maybe a health-check and warnings in STDERR at the minimum
08:30:00 <TrueBrain> If you can find a way to streamline the midi experience, yes please
08:30:42 <andythenorth> so when we replace the vehicle modding framework
08:30:48 <andythenorth> can we call it grftoo?
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08:33:45 <Xaroth> you could call it hsg, which is grf but all the letters moved by one.
08:36:03 <andythenorth> the main thing is the names
08:36:10 <ekangmonyet> TrueBrain: sure, i can give it a try
08:39:07 <andythenorth> I would like to see grf replaced before I die
08:39:32 <andythenorth> let's say I am about 40 ish, and most of my family live to 80-90
08:39:45 <andythenorth> so if I am lucky, we have about 30 years or so to do it
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08:51:57 <TrueBrain> "let's say I am about 40 ish" ... lol :D
08:52:19 <TrueBrain> LordAro: did that review deal include a follow-up review, or what can I do for you to earn that? :D :D :D
08:52:55 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, i'll have another look soon :p
08:53:15 <TrueBrain> too many PRs require a preview before merging :P
08:56:31 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe CodeQL things "await res" is a noop
08:56:38 <TrueBrain> it cannot possibly be a noop, in no context
08:56:52 <TrueBrain> I hadn't seen a real false positive from it :)
08:58:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8352: Change: set the default setting for autorenew to on for new games https://git.io/JIscu
09:11:42 <andythenorth> I mean, if I die before we replace grf
09:11:50 <andythenorth> I'm not going to care that much
09:12:00 <andythenorth> I can live with it
09:12:09 <TrueBrain> I am scared to death that you hunt us from the afterlife, I have to admit
09:12:19 <andythenorth> I could make a longevity bot
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09:12:35 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe we just invented a form of immortality here
09:12:49 <andythenorth> if you can't live, but you can continue having the same effect on the world...?
09:13:06 <TrueBrain> that would be short of horrible
09:13:12 <TrueBrain> but .. like .. so many people
09:13:34 <TrueBrain> to go into extremes: take a Hitler
09:13:49 <Xaroth> This conversation is really going places
09:14:09 <TrueBrain> well, you joined, what did you expect?
09:14:29 <Xaroth> I joined many a moon ago, pretty sure this.. whatever it is.. cannot be attributed to me! :P
09:15:03 <andythenorth> maybe we could call it 'new' ...something
09:17:16 <TrueBrain> yes, let's start with the name :) And work from there :P
09:17:53 <andythenorth> names beginning with A are often more successful
09:19:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JLmo0
09:19:29 <TrueBrain> I need opinions ^^ :)
09:19:52 <andythenorth> is that not merged yet?
09:20:06 <andythenorth> # is not universally understand as 'member of a list'
09:20:09 <andythenorth> around the world
09:20:16 <andythenorth> I'd just drop it, and merge
09:20:19 <andythenorth> it's a nice feature
09:20:32 <TrueBrain> for Buoys we already do #
09:20:42 <andythenorth> consistency is a hobgoblin :P
09:20:48 <TrueBrain> and yes, the game is inconsistent :D
09:20:52 <andythenorth> and stations we do #
09:21:06 <TrueBrain> a lovely mixed bag :)
09:21:20 <TrueBrain> so basically, on most places BUT vehicles that are ungrouped :D
09:21:32 <TrueBrain> default name of a group is "Group 0"
09:21:35 <TrueBrain> so doing "Group 0 0"
09:22:00 <TrueBrain> "Group 0 #0" is slightly better, still silly :D
09:22:02 <andythenorth> ok nice chat, include the # everywhere, move on
09:22:14 <TrueBrain> you are not getting out of this THAT easy :P
09:22:27 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Yes please, with hash
09:22:28 <andythenorth> I'm here all day
09:22:39 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: but should it also be Train #1, in that case?
09:22:49 <andythenorth> THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE COMMIT
09:23:00 <andythenorth> I dunno, I used to get yelled at for not separating concerns
09:23:04 <andythenorth> then those people left
09:23:26 <TrueBrain> let the past be the past ;)
09:24:00 <TrueBrain> but is # really not universally seen as "part of a group"?
09:24:17 <TrueBrain> guess if you code too long .. you forget silly things in cultures :)
09:24:21 <andythenorth> I am not aware of any GH issues mentioning it
09:24:50 <TrueBrain> good point, even GH uses # :P
09:25:01 <andythenorth> I made the point, you proved we already have the precedent...
09:25:14 <andythenorth> All trains are in a group anyway
09:25:22 <andythenorth> Even if that group is 'Ungrouped'
09:25:33 <andythenorth> So 'Ungrouped #99' for names
09:26:13 <TrueBrain> only works if you ever made a single group
09:26:21 <TrueBrain> I wonder how many people use groups
09:26:24 <TrueBrain> we need telemetry :D
09:28:06 <andythenorth> telemetry count: 1
09:29:20 <andythenorth> I just tried changing it in game to # for ungrouped vehicles
09:29:31 <andythenorth> 1) that name button is really really hard to find
09:30:08 <TrueBrain> now for the patch itself ... it is a bit wonky :)
09:30:49 <andythenorth> there are some good studies in UI design about how things like ':' on field names don't really matter
09:31:01 <andythenorth> and even consistency doesn't really matter, beyond being consistent in each page
09:31:02 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: We could switch to № :p
09:31:26 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: don't tempt me :P
09:31:34 <andythenorth> Just emoji everything
09:31:37 <FLHerne> Is the '#' localisable currently, or just hardcoded?
09:31:39 <TrueBrain> I really do not like # in the OpenGFX font :P
09:31:42 <andythenorth> Or put the numbles in a bubble
09:31:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain the obvious solution there is to replace that font :P
09:31:59 <FLHerne> Well, ok, definitely # everywhere then
09:32:10 <FLHerne> If someone's language doesn't do # they can use something else
09:32:23 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: good point, tnx :) Was looking for something like that :D
09:32:33 <FLHerne> (presumably "" is a valid something else)
09:32:50 <TrueBrain> so .. lot of room :)
09:32:54 * andythenorth wonders what a numble is?
09:33:16 <andythenorth> I think a numble is one of those bubbles with a number in, as used on notification counts etc
09:34:02 <FLHerne> I don't think using that for an ID number would be semantically right
09:34:30 <andythenorth> Urban Dictionary, surprisingly SFW today
09:34:46 <FLHerne> Those definitely imply that it's a count of things, particularly of things needing attention
09:35:57 <andythenorth> maybe I could get Bootstrap UI to accept a patch renaming the bubbles as numbles
09:38:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JU4lR
09:38:24 <TrueBrain> so something like this then?
09:38:37 <TrueBrain> (don't worry, they are 2 commits)
09:39:33 <andythenorth> so Group #88 also? :P
09:40:39 <FLHerne> That's the obvious conclusion, but looks terrible
09:41:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JU4lR
09:41:19 <andythenorth> All UI design is picking the least crap of the crap options :)
09:41:31 <TrueBrain> lucky, creating groups shows the edit dialog
09:41:37 <TrueBrain> so it is less likely someone uses "Group 0" :)
09:42:20 <FLHerne> Creating trains should show the edit dialog
09:42:28 <FLHerne> There's no way this would annoy everyone
09:42:42 <andythenorth> That 'rename group' dialog doesn't confuse me every time
09:42:50 <andythenorth> Anyway, merge it
09:43:07 <FLHerne> So should groups have a #? Does anyone care?
09:43:12 <andythenorth> No they shouldn't
09:43:20 <andythenorth> because we can add them later if we're wrong now
09:43:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JLmPj
09:43:38 <andythenorth> Take today's improvement, nothing else go worse
09:43:46 <andythenorth> Tomorrow is another day, etc
09:43:50 <andythenorth> I should make T-Shirts
09:43:57 <TrueBrain> so many .. you would be rich :)
09:44:13 <andythenorth> I meant so say something meaningful butI can't type
09:44:14 <TrueBrain> but indeed, "Group 0" is fine, as it is very unlikely you are going to keep that name
09:44:23 <TrueBrain> "Train #1" looks better, as you are unlikely to name it :)
09:44:29 <TrueBrain> btw .. why the FUCK do groups start with 0?
09:44:36 <andythenorth> because Engineers
09:44:41 <TrueBrain> I should stop finding bugs :P
09:45:17 <FLHerne> I guess for consistency, it should be "Company #{COMMA}" too...
09:45:17 <andythenorth> Pls, don't look into groups
09:45:29 <TrueBrain> there are more of those honestly FLHerne
09:45:31 <andythenorth> I have group 8, and then the next group I make will be group 12
09:45:36 <TrueBrain> if you feel up to it, a PR would be welcome :)
09:45:36 <andythenorth> this is super lolz
09:45:46 <TrueBrain> CI is failing, oh-oh ...
09:45:58 <TrueBrain> regression, oops :D
09:46:06 <FLHerne> We need that guy who was trying to make a totally consistent style guide back
09:46:14 <FLHerne> I think I might have upset him :-(
09:46:33 <LordAro> FLHerne: was hardly only you
09:46:33 <TrueBrain> I asked him if he could rebase :)
09:46:35 * FLHerne seems to be good at that
09:46:41 <LordAro> we all disagreed with him quite a lot
09:46:52 <TrueBrain> was about to say .. that thread was ... opinionated :D
09:46:57 <FLHerne> tbf, it's an impossible task
09:47:03 <andythenorth> how could it be opinionated?
09:47:06 <TrueBrain> what he said: there has to be some trust
09:47:07 <andythenorth> I stayed out of it
09:47:15 <TrueBrain> we do the same with translators
09:47:27 <TrueBrain> but if I was around, I would also have joined the disagreements :P
09:47:31 <TrueBrain> so yeah .. easy to say for me :D
09:47:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Astonishingly, other people also have opinions ;-)
09:47:39 <LordAro> rigid style guidelines are great for programming languages
09:47:47 <LordAro> not so great for real life languages
09:47:56 <andythenorth> FLHerne what are these 'other people' you speak of?
09:49:18 <TrueBrain> I do not understand CMake yet .. sometimes it starts recompiling everything when I change certain files
09:49:23 <TrueBrain> not always what I intend :)
09:50:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JU4lR
09:51:06 <TrueBrain> now .. can I approve my own work .. well, I can, as it is not my PR, but .. hmmmm :P
09:52:04 * andythenorth has controversial ideas
09:54:20 <TrueBrain> I really love that PR .. that would make me use Groups
09:54:33 <TrueBrain> (I absolute hate naming individual trains)
09:54:37 <andythenorth> As if group liveries weren't enough already? :P
09:55:16 <andythenorth> sometimes a 30s livestream would be the answer
09:55:27 <andythenorth> at work now, there's so much ad-hoc screensharing
09:55:35 <andythenorth> it really is much more fluid
09:55:53 <TrueBrain> it is a security nightmare I can tell you :)
09:55:53 <andythenorth> we should just make the game self-cast :P
09:56:01 <TrueBrain> we should do a livestream :)
09:56:24 <TrueBrain> pretty sure we can learn each other about a lot of things
09:56:38 <TrueBrain> "owh, you play this game like THAT?! " :D
09:56:51 <TrueBrain> "you doing WHAT NOW in your GRF?" :P
09:57:51 <andythenorth> I replied in the image-sharing channel
09:57:53 <TrueBrain> demos, that is what we need .. preview + prerecorded actions :)
09:58:22 <TrueBrain> you can setup colour schemes per group? Cool
09:58:22 <andythenorth> the tank game can record battles, and replay
09:58:42 <TrueBrain> but what is "Group Livery" in this context?
09:59:05 <andythenorth> words are interchangeable here
09:59:13 <andythenorth> this is nothing to do with newgrf liveries :P
09:59:23 <andythenorth> which are very confusing
09:59:30 <TrueBrain> I TAKE BACK THAT QUESTION
09:59:30 <andythenorth> we are being productive
09:59:47 <TrueBrain> I have to admit, I thought "liveries" had to do with cattle etc :P
09:59:57 <andythenorth> oh, like livery stable?
10:00:07 <TrueBrain> no clue why :) But wrong it is :P
10:00:23 <andythenorth> I want to call them colourways
10:00:39 <TrueBrain> I am happy it is "colour schemes" in the title :)
10:00:49 <TrueBrain> liveries .. somehow I connected it to deliveries
10:00:53 <TrueBrain> well, learn something new :)
10:02:28 <TrueBrain> hmm .. still wondering about that self-approving
10:02:33 <TrueBrain> we used to do that all the time with subversion
10:02:45 <TrueBrain> user send in a patch, dev picked it up, cleaned it, and submitted it
10:03:07 <TrueBrain> I always had this issue at work too .. having someone else ALSO review it, is such a colossal waste of time
10:03:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JLmy5
10:04:19 <andythenorth> lots of projects did fine with self-approval
10:04:28 <andythenorth> we're not writing kernel code here
10:04:56 <andythenorth> but it requires a lot of trust and judgement
10:06:24 <TrueBrain> I could never use this window, and now I understand why :D
10:06:46 <andythenorth> no I re-read it at the weekend, I think it might be valid
10:06:55 <andythenorth> I took a break because the wall of text pissed me off
10:07:03 <andythenorth> and being pissed off is usually a bad sign
10:07:14 <andythenorth> it 'just' needs a 'sort by' on the key
10:07:27 <TrueBrain> more options is what the UI needs :D :D
10:07:33 <TrueBrain> it is funny, this is a big-data problem
10:07:37 <TrueBrain> and the world has been solving it
10:07:45 <TrueBrain> like, AWS allows you to click a line
10:07:52 <TrueBrain> and it hightlights throughout the interface what that line is
10:08:00 <TrueBrain> making it really easy to see what that line belongs to
10:08:18 <TrueBrain> (for openttd.org, we have 30+ services running .. spotting which one is using that large amount of CPU would otherwise be impossible)
10:08:28 <TrueBrain> but .. those kind of interactions might be a bit far-fetches for OpenTTD :D
10:08:28 <andythenorth> focus highlights
10:09:51 <TrueBrain> the patch only, oef
10:09:53 <TrueBrain> that is a lot of code
10:10:37 <andythenorth> trying to distill my objection
10:10:52 <andythenorth> the patch assumes that the correct way to play the game is to pick the highest paying cargo
10:11:07 <andythenorth> instead of finding the highest producing industry, then seeing if the cargos pay well
10:11:21 <andythenorth> this is pretty common in 'scratch my itch' PRs
10:11:25 <TrueBrain> different playstyles, yup
10:11:43 <TrueBrain> I have been watching playthroughs of OpenTTD
10:11:53 <TrueBrain> most people suggest using this graph to start with your first route
10:12:29 <TrueBrain> but absolutely, sort key is the proper short-term solution
10:12:43 <andythenorth> the feature requests for sorting the industry list by production suggest another cohort exists
10:13:03 <TrueBrain> which is normal for a game :)
10:13:12 <TrueBrain> the reason most games have "advanced" settings etc
10:16:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8268: Change: Sort cargo payment rates legend in order of (initial) cost instead of alphabetically https://git.io/JLmHb
10:18:58 <TrueBrain> I think that sums it up nicely, not? :)
10:20:59 <andythenorth> I have never seen a UI get worse by adding filter, sort (and sometimes group)
10:21:15 <andythenorth> as long as they're designed and not just added
10:21:32 <TrueBrain> it also fits here, to have a dropdown with sort keys
10:21:35 <TrueBrain> it is just .. a lot of work to add
10:22:06 <andythenorth> a little work scares people? :P
10:22:27 <andythenorth> Iron Horse is like 5k commits
10:22:35 <andythenorth> and that's just trains
10:23:42 <andythenorth> oof I should do some work, making the internet
10:24:11 <TrueBrain> yes, you do that :)
10:24:16 <TrueBrain> I am going to pick another random PR :)
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10:30:45 <andythenorth> 'freeze time' button
10:30:53 <andythenorth> 'stop progression', 'start progression'
10:31:00 <andythenorth> then give GS the option to do it
10:31:15 <andythenorth> "No progression for you until you fulfill my arbitrary level-up goals"
10:32:22 <TrueBrain> and that would be a fine follow-up PR :)
10:34:02 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't think we need a sorting key
10:34:33 <FLHerne> andythenorth: People choosing an industry don't really care about that graph at all, I think ;-)
10:34:37 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: the code is not in a state it can be accepted :)
10:35:03 <TrueBrain> and a sorting key would solve most of the reasons the code is not acceptable atm :)
10:35:11 <TrueBrain> it is a double-edged sword ;)
10:35:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth: If you care about industry chains and so on, it's not particularly useful
10:35:50 <andythenorth> there is a 3rd cohort
10:36:10 <FLHerne> Ok, but who cares about *those*?
10:36:12 <andythenorth> if we make it unnecessarily hard for content authors, we get less content
10:36:28 <andythenorth> and a sort key meets more needs
10:36:37 <FLHerne> How does sorting the list differently hurt content authors?
10:36:56 <andythenorth> because it's much harder to work with
10:37:04 <andythenorth> that's why it was alphabetised
10:37:20 <andythenorth> it wasn't an accident
10:37:25 <FLHerne> 'harder to work with'?
10:37:34 <TrueBrain> <FLHerne> Ok, but who cares about *those*? <- think you forgot a /s or a smiley there :)
10:37:49 <andythenorth> I imply smilies all the time in my head
10:37:55 <andythenorth> it makes for a better internet
10:37:58 <andythenorth> better people evn
10:38:01 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: No, I deliberately omitted one because sarcasm markers defeat the point
10:38:15 <TrueBrain> you would be surprised how poorly sarcasm travels over the internet :D
10:38:17 <andythenorth> I invented a thing once which would project emojis on a bubble above people's heads
10:38:36 * andythenorth has automated the cargo payment rates anyway
10:38:45 <andythenorth> because it turns out that the gameplay effect is minimal
10:38:56 <andythenorth> and it's more important to prevent the chart lines overlapping visually
10:39:05 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: If we commit to not using /s, we can just imagine one for all statements we disagree with, and everything will be better
10:39:17 <_dp_> hm, I think I know what 8307 woundn't work well with.... that train racing thing I made
10:39:29 <_dp_> it sets both group name and vehicle name to a player name
10:39:31 <andythenorth> Train Whack Races!
10:39:41 <andythenorth> The Great Train Race!
10:40:34 <FLHerne> _dp_: It doesn't show the group name if there's a custom vehicle name
10:40:41 <andythenorth> where is the PR to add high scores to Train Whack?
10:40:46 <_dp_> FLHerne, ah, ok, nvm then
10:40:50 <andythenorth> we can handle them in an edge lambda thing
10:40:54 <TrueBrain> it is even in the commit message :P
10:40:55 <andythenorth> and store them on a queue
10:41:00 <andythenorth> we only need 30 days or so
10:41:05 <TrueBrain> but .. what is this game you made?! :D
10:42:00 <_dp_> TrueBrain, you mean racing thingie? you can check it on citymania test server ;)
10:42:09 <TrueBrain> I might some day :P
10:42:23 <TrueBrain> I am afraid I won't see the light for a few days if I do :D
10:42:37 <_dp_> nah, it's pretty simple right now
10:43:00 <_dp_> needs a good map to make it more interesting but I'm too lazy to make it :p
10:45:13 <TrueBrain> the code kinda assumes your game runs for 170 years before it loops back
10:45:30 <TrueBrain> after that time, this setting is not going to hurt anyone (as nothing changes, really)
10:45:37 <TrueBrain> before that time .. there are some nasty things that happen
10:46:11 <_dp_> where did 170 years come from? or do you mean if inflation is enabled?
10:46:25 <andythenorth> bleeding edge previews!
10:46:40 <TrueBrain> inflation runs for 170 years in OpenTTD
10:47:36 <_dp_> oh, so does groundhog make it infinite?
10:48:24 <TrueBrain> most likely not what the intended goal is of a groundhog year :)
10:48:41 <TrueBrain> yeah, but my issue is: do I know all those places that do stuff like this :)
10:48:43 <andythenorth> there are probably as many goals for groundhog year as players
10:48:56 <andythenorth> but the most common seems to be 'keep these trains around for longer'
10:49:02 <andythenorth> if we can do that, gravy
10:49:11 <TrueBrain> yeah, pretty sure nobody expects an infinite inflation ;)
10:49:34 <TrueBrain> you live in a groundhog year?
10:49:37 * andythenorth looks at property prices
10:49:40 <TrueBrain> fair point LordAro :D
10:49:42 <andythenorth> and the banking system
10:49:43 <_dp_> TrueBrain, just merge it and fix if someone complains? xD
10:49:52 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is too easy
10:50:09 <andythenorth> has anyone tested it in game yet?
10:50:26 <andythenorth> like, does it actually meet a goal, or is it just a candidate prototype
10:50:33 <_dp_> I kinda feel like nobody expects inflation period
10:50:41 <andythenorth> spanish inquisition
10:50:46 <TrueBrain> that is fair, but it is part of the game, so I have to deal with it :)
10:50:49 <TrueBrain> that or remove it :P
10:50:55 <andythenorth> 'Fix: groundhog year; delete inflation'
10:51:12 <TrueBrain> there are the default issues with a patch like this andythenorth , as I tested it, like the finance window overwriting the current year over and over
10:51:15 <_dp_> oh, I want it nice and hard ... why does it always bankrupt in 100 years reeee
10:51:45 <TrueBrain> but otherwise, it meets the goal, yes :)
10:52:13 <TrueBrain> engine aging is the other one frosch123 mentions
10:53:07 <andythenorth> so this would be a setting in settings?
10:53:13 <andythenorth> I should really just pull the patch eh
10:53:23 <andythenorth> so a later PR could add a button next to in-game date?
10:53:37 <TrueBrain> a "loop this year button"?
10:53:44 <TrueBrain> sure, it is a game setting
10:53:45 <andythenorth> like looping a music playlist
10:53:54 <andythenorth> and that would disable on servers
10:53:58 <TrueBrain> it currently is a game_creation setting
10:54:31 <TrueBrain> owh, yes, that does work
10:55:34 <andythenorth> do we have a loop icon anywhere?
10:58:36 <andythenorth> the hog is the red blob at the bottom
10:58:49 <andythenorth> I learnt a lot about sprites from my 1980s childhood :P
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11:07:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JLmj2
11:07:50 <TrueBrain> owh, Eddit doesn't allow me pushing in his branches
11:10:59 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> that's a case of "this is technically a proper phrase, but it has a meaning you did not intend"
11:11:14 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: would you mind opening up your branch for me to push into? :D
11:11:30 <TrueBrain> (or rebase yourself, but I did the work already :P)
11:13:23 <TrueBrain> (it is the checkbox at the bottom of the list on the right)
11:17:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] LordAro approved pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP https://git.io/JLYfI
11:20:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP https://git.io/JIzaz
11:20:41 <TrueBrain> now to wire this into the infra .. euhm ... I had to do something for that I believe ..
11:21:15 <TrueBrain> owh, yes, this was pointing to the NLB .. hmm
11:21:32 <TrueBrain> I need another DNS name :D
11:23:05 <TrueBrain> or I can wire the NLB to the ALB for 443 .. hmm
11:24:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLYJw
11:25:54 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am going to tell you something about Emscripten you are going to be amazed about.. but first I will have lunch :)
11:27:22 <andythenorth> coffee is lunch, right?
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11:53:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLYqF
11:58:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
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12:21:23 <TrueBrain> I am going to provision a new version of the NLB, which is always a bit terrifying, as it can put the masterserver and contentservice offline :D
12:21:28 <TrueBrain> we will see how good I was in testing this :D
12:34:32 <TrueBrain> okay .. "it seems to work" :P
12:41:34 <TrueBrain> is that good enough? I like to think so :D
12:54:16 * andythenorth wonders what python will do with -0
13:05:54 <FLHerne> ISTR it didn't make much/any difference
13:15:07 <andythenorth> it makes a difference when I evaluate -ve numbers in the tech tree
13:15:15 <andythenorth> and I didn't leave room to insert a branch :P
13:16:12 <FLHerne> I thought you meant the -O 'optimize' command-line flag
13:16:22 <FLHerne> -0 is just 0 in Python, yes
13:19:08 <_dp_> btw it's kind of interesting how binary not (~) works in python considering numbers are technically infinite
13:20:02 <FLHerne> andythenorth: But not for floating-point values
13:20:40 <FLHerne> I think some really old/weird architectures allowed signed integer zeros too
13:20:43 <andythenorth> I just tried that
13:21:29 <andythenorth> what's the sqrt of -0.0? o_O
13:21:31 <FLHerne> But 2's-complement is universal now and only has one possible 0 representation, so you won't get signed integer 0s in anything sane
13:35:40 <TrueBrain> WebSocket for content-service is up and running on staging now :D
13:35:45 <TrueBrain> okay, that makes me really happy :)
13:35:59 <TrueBrain> took a bit of fiddling to route it in a correct way through the infra
13:36:32 <TrueBrain> time to get it on production too :D
13:45:43 <TrueBrain> okay ... with Emscripten, you can now download content from the content-service without issue :D :D :D Okay, that is just cool :)
13:48:53 <andythenorth> next, bananas for unreleased grfs :P
13:49:29 <TrueBrain> well, I can rebrand BaNaNaS if you like .. pretty sure most GRFs consider themself unreleased :P
13:51:04 <andythenorth> just do on the fly compilation from my github repo into the wasm client
13:51:26 <TrueBrain> well, you can indeed use the preview to showcase GRFs too
13:51:29 <andythenorth> oh, a lambda edge that compiles the grf on the fly from a commit? o_O
13:51:41 <TrueBrain> you could load a game for example which showcases it
13:54:06 <TrueBrain> funny how google still hasn't updated the wiki properly :P
13:55:35 <milek7> now, server discovery needs to be fixed :P
13:56:52 <TrueBrain> yeah ... so far I have: add SSL to the gameserver, add WebSocket server to the gameserver, extend master-server protocol to indicate if you also support WebSocket, add code for updater to validate WebSocket is reachable too, update master-server protocol discovery packet to request WebSocket only servers ... and THEN we can add it to the client :)
14:07:05 <milek7> stretch needs to be removed from release builds, it was broken by c++17 changes
14:09:04 <TrueBrain> my CDK is still deploying the infra ... taking forever ...
14:12:22 <milek7> it looks 16.04 have gcc5, so it won't work
14:12:47 <TrueBrain> I will do a full run in a bit, see what breaks :)
14:13:49 <TrueBrain> but first the deployment has to finish .... ugh ....
14:14:45 <milek7> seems my franken-1.10.3 build works :D
14:17:38 <glx> and by looking at this PR I noticed missing stuff in cmake
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14:18:26 <glx> need to start the VM to check
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14:25:47 <TrueBrain> Stretch and 16.04 fail, the rest succeed
14:25:52 <TrueBrain> so .. that is an easy fix :)
14:26:21 <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro ... I tried to postpone it till after 1.11
14:26:31 <TrueBrain> we can use backport gcc if you really like :)
14:26:31 <glx> are they still officially supported
14:27:10 <LordAro> stretch definitely has gcc6.3
14:27:41 <TrueBrain> CMake flat-out refuses :)
14:27:47 <planetmaker> Ubuntu 16.04 LTS release Apr 2016 EOL Apr 2021
14:27:51 <TrueBrain> owh, stretch no longer has backport :(
14:29:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIiDr
14:30:43 <LordAro> could build newer gcc? :p
14:30:50 <TrueBrain> we accept PRs :) :D
14:31:25 <TrueBrain> I like that even Debian no longer lists their stretch backports :P
14:31:33 <TrueBrain> guess they try to say something there :D
14:32:12 <LordAro> it's never done that there?
14:32:33 <TrueBrain> just a random example :)
14:32:49 <LordAro> oh, probably because there aren't any gcc backports
14:32:53 <LordAro> because core package and all that
14:33:16 <LordAro> clang 5 might work :p
14:33:32 <TrueBrain> you are spending time on a 0.00001% of our userbase :D
14:33:44 <TrueBrain> pretty sure that 1 user survives fine compile it himself :D
14:34:11 <LordAro> eh, we'd need to use libc++ anyway
14:34:30 <TrueBrain> we can skip it with OpenTTD for stretch
14:34:36 <TrueBrain> we need a format for that .....
14:34:43 <TrueBrain> snap? AppImage? flatpack? :D :P
14:35:57 <TrueBrain> this is something nielsm knows: is all of freepats needed to have music ingame? Or does it really only need 1 or 2 files? I ask, because AppImages and Snaps are HUGE just because of freepats :P
14:36:18 <TrueBrain> doesn't feel .. balanced :D
14:36:35 <LordAro> midi is the music equivalent of bmp, aiui
14:36:41 <LordAro> isn't very compressed
14:36:52 <TrueBrain> milek7: which reminds me, adding sound with emscripten is a bit easier now, as freepats doesn't have to be embedded; it can, like OpenGFX, just be downloaded once
14:37:36 <TrueBrain> sound/music, what-ever :P
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14:39:00 <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol, it is as old, so yeah :P
14:43:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLOTz
14:45:24 <nielsm> TrueBrain, I'm sure you could do with a much simpler patchset for it
14:45:36 <nielsm> I can't remember which patches the music actually uses
14:46:06 <TrueBrain> so something to dive into :) Gotcha :)
14:46:12 <TrueBrain> I really know nothing about midi :P Except that it is old
14:46:43 <nielsm> but also, if you begin diving into all the various free music packs, you lose all ways of making assumptions
14:46:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
14:47:04 <TrueBrain> and you never return? :D
14:47:08 <milek7> I used old freepats from 2006, 33MiB, but that had some samples missing
14:47:25 <TrueBrain> it is just annoying, that a game of 10MB is 40+ with sound :)
14:47:33 <nielsm> MIDI is just a sequence of instructions to a synthesizer, which notes to play and stop playing, and controllers to adjust, at which times, and how it sounds depends on the patchset and synth technology used
14:47:39 <TrueBrain> but I guess it comes back to: make them oggs :P
14:48:05 <TrueBrain> so one could argue no 2 people will have the same experience
14:48:10 <nielsm> like, the Roland SC-55 which the original TT soundtrack was composed for primarily has a pretty small sample bank actually
14:48:11 <TrueBrain> depending on their OS, driver, etc
14:48:38 <nielsm> yes a sampled music player would be simpler to handle
14:48:53 <nielsm> or just nothing and tell players to bring their own music
14:49:26 <TrueBrain> can our music play vorbis or what-ever?
14:49:55 <nielsm> there is some framework for playing sampled music
14:50:04 <nielsm> but the music playing code still all assumed MIDI
14:50:14 <TrueBrain> k; so it needs work :)
14:50:31 <LordAro> just put a music player on in the background
14:50:43 <nielsm> just the audio mixer has a way to mix in a music stream along the sound effects, that's used for one of the midi drivers
14:50:51 <TrueBrain> a game should have background music, that is just what all games do :)
14:50:56 <nielsm> yeah I'd suggest just using an HTML5 <audio> player
14:51:07 <TrueBrain> haha, not a bad idea too :D
14:51:13 <TrueBrain> okay, so Sentry just gave me a bananas-server entry
14:51:20 <TrueBrain> which made me go like: owh boy, what did I fuck up with Websocket
14:51:25 <TrueBrain> but it is a totally different bug
14:51:31 <TrueBrain> like .. could have happened months ago too :D
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14:52:42 <TrueBrain> okay ..... now I am going to label something "preview" .... and I hope it works
14:52:44 <TrueBrain> it did with testing
14:52:50 <TrueBrain> but ... nothing like live-shit
14:53:31 <TrueBrain> shit, it does need to be rebased before it works ofc :D Haha
14:54:24 <LordAro> clang5 & libc++ would work for c++17, incidentally
14:54:24 <milek7> oh, it does even have cloudsaves :P
14:54:32 <LordAro> but, bit of a pain to set up, i suppose
14:57:42 <glx> nothing changed in this area
14:58:24 <TrueBrain> btw, tnx a bunch LordAro for review :) Really appreciated :D
14:58:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
14:59:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JU2XF
14:59:36 <TrueBrain> lets try it out on an already approved but not merged PR :D
15:00:36 <milek7> there is midi music available on bananas
15:00:51 <milek7> it would need to be somehow filtered out when using sampled music
15:01:20 <TrueBrain> I think that is the easier part to solve ... supporting sampled music is the hard part :D
15:02:25 <milek7> that's easy, it just need libsndfile (or something) and plug it into existing mixer
15:03:36 <TrueBrain> don't forget about support in a base-music, etc :)
15:03:50 <TrueBrain> but I think it wouldn't hurt if we move away from MIDI :D
15:11:05 <TrueBrain> okay, the screenshots of 7028 makes my OCD go BBBBBRRRRRRR
15:11:09 <TrueBrain> I wonder if that is fixed :D
15:12:29 <TrueBrain> owh, this is awesome :D
15:13:06 <andythenorth> those overlapping sprites
15:13:12 <andythenorth> probably a valid feature, but oof
15:14:06 <TrueBrain> no, the order of "sort" and "group"
15:14:09 <TrueBrain> sometimes it is sort/group
15:14:12 <TrueBrain> othertimes group/sort
15:14:19 <TrueBrain> how do you make shared orders again? :D
15:15:34 <andythenorth> just press ctrl for everything
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15:22:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLOc6
15:23:15 <TrueBrain> Docks have Sort -> Group, Hangers Group -> Sort
15:23:18 <TrueBrain> no, this is just wrong :P
15:24:59 <TrueBrain> can't believe LordAro didn't spot that :P :D <3
15:26:09 <TrueBrain> windows do get crowded with such additions
15:26:17 <TrueBrain> I remember the game as simple windows with little stuff around it :P
15:26:26 <TrueBrain> now ... :D But most are useful, so it is okay :)
15:27:44 <andythenorth> it's not pretty, but it works
15:30:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you haven't PR'd the nginx cache change yet
15:31:29 <Samu> i found the openttd.manifest file, had to redownload it
15:31:47 <Samu> unsure how it got deleted on its own
15:32:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it was never a PR :)
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15:38:37 <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro , I should have PR'd it
15:38:42 <TrueBrain> but it was in the middle of other CDK stuff
15:38:49 <TrueBrain> which nobody wants to review :D Bad habbit :P
15:47:08 <Samu> I can build again! but the lzma, png and such are missing
15:48:48 <Samu> x64-Debug (Default) doesn't detect those libraries on its own
15:49:14 <LordAro> sounds like you need to start from scratch
15:50:04 <glx> they are provided by vcpkg, but you need to set VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET in cmake configuration
15:50:10 <Samu> I had to create a x64-Debug configuration and change the VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET from x64-windows to x64-windows-static
15:50:43 <glx> by default in doesn't use static version
15:50:44 <LordAro> is the wiki page up to date? :p
15:50:54 <LordAro> or whatever document is in docs/
15:51:37 <glx> not detailled, but I think there's a mention about VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET
15:51:54 <TrueBrain> you expect us to maintain the docs too? Owh boy .. :D
15:53:00 <orudge> [15:03:52] <TrueBrain> but I think it wouldn't hurt if we move away from MIDI :D <-- yes, once we start getting multi-megabyte Ogg Opus music base sets on BaNaNaS, I'm sure you'll be delighted ;)
15:53:29 <orudge> I've still got my various ancient music patches
15:53:34 <orudge> Could be greatly simplified these days I suspect
15:54:02 <TrueBrain> we can always restrict upload-size :P
15:54:31 <orudge> We could just stream online radio stations in the background
15:54:37 <orudge> and run a TT Music 24/7 station
15:55:57 <Samu> seems now that AIs also start with the setting enabled
15:56:14 <Samu> that can be trouble for some AIs :(
15:57:50 <Samu> will have to test it out
16:00:22 <Samu> on the bright side, some of the AIs may benefit from it
16:00:38 <glx> Samu: yes it's on when AI start, as seen in regression test result update
16:00:38 <Samu> hmm i expect some won't, though
16:01:00 <Samu> for example, I think Convoy will benefit from it
16:01:09 <glx> but AIs are supposed to manage their settings
16:01:30 <TrueBrain> owh, I love the previews ...
16:01:33 <TrueBrain> it makes testing easier :D
16:02:04 <TrueBrain> sorry, drooling over my own feature, I know :)
16:02:17 <TrueBrain> but just look at it .. you can now see if you like #8324 yourself in 2 seconds :D
16:02:38 <andythenorth> when I have finished this html, I am going to look
16:02:41 <andythenorth> and be impressed
16:03:38 <LordAro> with normal you can click & drag
16:03:42 <LordAro> with grove & forest you cannot
16:03:53 <TrueBrain> tooltip says you should be able :o
16:03:55 <LordAro> TrueBrain: but yes \o/
16:06:24 <glx> preview is a nice feature :)
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16:06:47 <LordAro> i'd suggest that the deployment message is unclear
16:06:51 <LordAro> but that's more of a GH ui issue
16:07:07 <TrueBrain> it is not perfect, no :)
16:07:13 <TrueBrain> but see how easily you found a bug :D
16:07:52 <TrueBrain> I like that you point to a place that might be the issue .. let me see if that fixes it
16:11:12 <Samu> if I want a portable build of openttd.exe where do I look for
16:11:34 <Samu> D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\out\build\x64-Release i find the .exe here but it's filled with temporary cmake stuff
16:11:58 <Samu> the old way was cleaner, it would go into a bin folder
16:12:16 <TrueBrain> LordAro: OnPlaceDrag is not called :(
16:13:08 <glx> Samu: it will be in out/install/x64-Release
16:13:16 <TrueBrain> only seems to work in combination with VpStartPlacingSize :P
16:14:31 <Samu> seems to be what I was looking for
16:17:06 <milek7> TrueBrain: it seems to redownload opengfx for each PR separately?
16:17:51 <TrueBrain> milek7: it does? Let me check ..
16:18:18 <TrueBrain> it shouldn't; it is stored in preview.openttd.org
16:20:03 <TrueBrain> pfew .. was afraid it worked in some weird way :D
16:20:55 <milek7> progress could be displayed in MiB instead of bytes :P
16:20:56 <TrueBrain> LordAro: seems the best we can do that you can drag a line, as the tooltip suggests
16:21:04 <TrueBrain> milek7: PRs are welcome! :D
16:23:25 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i can't drag a line at all..?
16:23:30 <TrueBrain> no, I can enable that, ish
16:23:33 <TrueBrain> is what I meant, sorry :)
16:23:47 <TrueBrain> but .. this is above my paygrade currently
16:23:50 <TrueBrain> I can get the dragging to work
16:23:55 <TrueBrain> but I have no clue how to walk from start_tile to end_tile :D
16:26:46 <Samu> yes, got some activity on my PRs
16:58:44 <FLHerne> andythenorth: How frequently do you make various kinds of small nml-source update? pixels-only vs property-values-only vs larger source changes?
16:59:39 <andythenorth> pixels only is already covered by rendering to nfo
16:59:42 <andythenorth> and using grfcodec
17:00:33 <FLHerne> Well, relative to each other
17:00:37 <FLHerne> I forgot about that hack
17:03:34 <andythenorth> pixels and property changes will be about 80% of all compiles
17:04:31 * FLHerne plays with caching ideas
17:08:43 <supermop_Home> I don't get how you make it mesh with other routes
17:09:58 <supermop_Home> i wonder for full load issue, if some kind of 'lay up' order would be nice
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17:11:08 <supermop_Home> like something to indicate to the autoseparation "try to wait approximately as long as the separation time"
17:11:47 <supermop_Home> seems easier than some kind of conditional order that explicitly says wait until the following train arrives and starts loading
17:12:07 <_dp_> it's suspiciously specific though, i wonder how well it works with anything more complex than just 1) full load 2) unload and leave empty
17:12:29 <supermop_Home> this is what i generally try to do with my timetables anyway
17:14:42 <supermop_Home> like, route takes 60 days and i need a train every 10 days... so i buy 7 trains and try to have the waiting time at the 'load' station, or end of line be 10 days
17:15:41 <supermop_Home> if i have the wiggle room ill make the layup time 12 days, so that the departing train waits til the following one has arrived and started loading
17:16:13 <supermop_Home> this helps with keeping the station junction clear and simple
17:17:17 <supermop_Home> _dp_ i don't know that it would work for complex cases, as it seems by design to simplify tedious but not overly complex situations
17:18:54 <supermop_Home> it also sounds like it already tries to maintain the separation by setting a certain station to wait longer at as a buffer? if you could just specify which station(s) you want that buffer to be, you might not need Full Load order in many cases
17:29:56 <andythenorth> I would say it's orthogonal to full load
17:30:08 <andythenorth> and should be disabled if full load orders are present
17:30:20 <andythenorth> we don't have enough modality in orders/timetables
17:46:08 <_dp_> sometimes it's red (from cost message I assume)
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17:51:36 <LordAro> bug in ogfx, perhaps?
17:51:43 <LordAro> (transparent pixel, etc)
17:57:51 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:13:49 <andythenorth> so I could learn to debug and profile newgrf vehicle sprite performance
18:13:58 <andythenorth> maybe jgr fixed that already though
18:14:19 <_dp_> I just realized you can have 2 stations with the same name in the same spot (sign)...
18:15:51 <andythenorth> we could rewrite vehicle grf
18:16:03 <andythenorth> so that all possible sprite results are pre-computed
18:16:09 <andythenorth> but NFI if it's actually a thing
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18:18:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol updated pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JklGO
18:20:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Ik
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18:22:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Iw
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18:24:08 <glx> <LordAro> (transparent pixel, etc) <-- just checked quickly, it's indeed an opengfx bug
18:25:01 <glx> and all climates/rail type seems affectd
18:25:34 <LordAro> ...how has it been unnoticed this long?
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18:29:13 <_dp_> it's even funnier that I noticed it on 4k
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18:36:01 <andythenorth> shall we merge some things! :)
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18:37:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3qB
18:41:23 <TrueBrain> PR mostly looks okay; needs some minor coding style fixes, but nothing too bad :) I like easy PRs :)
18:41:57 <_dp_> next level - allow pr preview to save games and link them to pr as test cases
18:43:27 <_dp_> also mouse moves very slow in browser :(
18:49:33 <TrueBrain> mouse moves fine here?
18:49:38 <TrueBrain> and yeah, demo+savegame, would be great :D
18:50:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Oq
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19:05:58 <_dp_> is MAX_MAX_LOAN an acceptable constant name?
19:06:40 <TrueBrain> well, honestly, it is :P
19:06:54 <TrueBrain> MAX_LOAN_LIMIT ? Dunno :)
19:07:26 <_dp_> cool, now to figure out wtf should its value be xD
19:08:11 <_dp_> well, it's literally the max for max_loan variable, naming it differently would be quite confusing imo
19:10:15 <_dp_> can we just remove inflation, it eats 32 bits for no good reason :p
19:12:29 <TrueBrain> freeform_edges ... how to enable that ... I cannot find it in the code, hilarious :D
19:14:16 <_dp_> well, you can probably set it via console
19:15:49 <_dp_> "170 years of 4% inflation result in a inflation of about 822, so 10 bits are actually enough"
19:16:01 <_dp_> nice comment before constant of type uint64 :/
19:17:32 <_dp_> 10 bits are enough so let's set max_inflation to 2**31 in 64 bit var
19:18:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JL3nu
19:18:38 <_dp_> makes for a wonderful minigame "guess when this shit's gonna overflow" :p
19:19:41 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, code suggests freeform_edges can be on with original generator too
19:19:51 <TrueBrain> grepping the code for that is really not useful :D
19:28:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JL3CR
19:29:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8382: Fix: [NewGRF] Action 7/9 conditions 0x0B to 0x12 failed, if 'param' was 0x85 or 0x88. https://git.io/JL3Cz
19:30:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/JL3CX
19:30:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed pull request #7823: Fix c02ef3e456: Special case of Var 0x88 was not handled for NRT Acti… https://git.io/Je2vL
19:31:14 <frosch123> do they get a cookie for most hex numbers in a commit message?
19:31:31 <TrueBrain> well, you won, so yeah ... :P
19:32:09 <frosch123> hmm, how do i test it
19:33:45 <frosch123> firs still disables with pbi loaded, so i guess it is fine
19:35:25 <andythenorth> hard-coded disable all FIRS? o_O
19:35:36 * andythenorth proposes that PR
19:36:01 <frosch123> save ottd, disable more grfs?
19:38:57 <TrueBrain> ah, only x=0 and y=0 is VOID in freeform_edges
19:41:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JU2DQ
19:41:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JeNQn
19:41:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JL3lr
19:42:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JL3lP
19:43:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JL3lA
19:45:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you changes the < to a <=?
19:46:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JL38Y
19:46:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am pretty sure I am capable of doing so; but why you ask? :D
19:46:37 <TrueBrain> owh, sorry, I read: can you
19:46:40 <TrueBrain> ugh, I should read :P
19:47:02 <frosch123> maybe i am tried, but that PR is really difficult to read for me :)
19:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> is there git magic to delete all unversioned files?
19:47:13 <TrueBrain> it is also really difficult to read the code frosch123 :)
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19:47:30 <TrueBrain> but, with freeform_edges on, x=0 and y=0 are VOID tiles
19:47:40 <TrueBrain> for generation, it looks best if there is a border of water around the map
19:47:44 <frosch123> i redact my comment
19:47:45 <TrueBrain> so x=1 and y=1 should be water
19:47:52 <TrueBrain> no, I want to know if I am right :D
19:47:57 <frosch123> i though the PR would change behavior with non-freeform
19:48:14 <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is only during generation of the original generator
19:48:34 <TrueBrain> but I stared at this for 30 minutes now ... it is hard :(
19:48:40 <TrueBrain> I will add comment now :D
19:49:06 <frosch123> non-freeform => north border must be flat water => corners "x/y <= 1" must be at height 0
19:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: so from reading the description, i don't want -x
19:49:31 <frosch123> freeform => north border must till be flat water for original mapgen => corners "x/y <= 2" must be at height 0
19:49:39 <frosch123> should be fine then
19:50:07 <TrueBrain> about your patch .... "it looks fine"?
19:50:11 <TrueBrain> "I assume you tested it"? :D
19:50:43 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: potentially, i always only remember that
19:50:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: there's a reason i never merged it :p
19:51:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I cannot blame you :)
19:53:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i added NOT_REACHED to unwanted codepaths, and could not trigger them
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19:54:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8382: Fix: [NewGRF] Action 7/9 conditions 0x0B to 0x12 failed, if 'param' was 0x85 or 0x88. https://git.io/JL34y
19:54:44 <TrueBrain> these really are YOLO approvals
19:55:10 <TrueBrain> I find it extremely weird that 85 is nowhere in that code snippet
19:55:15 <TrueBrain> but I am pretty sure I do not want to ask :D
19:55:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's in a comment, i added
19:55:44 <TrueBrain> that is why I don't want to ask :P
19:56:43 <frosch123> assembly is not structured programming :)
19:58:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders https://git.io/JL3lP
19:58:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders https://git.io/JeNQn
19:58:08 <TrueBrain> fine, some comments in the commit message about what is going on .. helps the next person :P
19:58:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders https://git.io/JL3BB
19:58:35 <TrueBrain> right, 3 ready for merge ... can we get it down to 60 today ..
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20:00:41 <TrueBrain> frosch123: about the groundhog year, how big of a boom is it if we do not fix stuff like inflation in this PR?
20:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> easy fix: inflation stops 1 year before the groundhog year. if groundhog year is lowered, inflation is not apllied backwards
20:02:55 <TrueBrain> there are many places that require such attention before 2090
20:03:03 <TrueBrain> well, I wrote in the ticket what my concern was :D
20:03:12 <TrueBrain> I just fail to estimate the impact
20:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i looked at the PR, but my intuition tells me: do this properly
20:03:54 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i consider it important that a feature has an intention. that PR adds something without stating the intention, so everyone expects something else from it.
20:04:07 <frosch123> you can either have the discussion before merge, or after merge
20:04:39 <frosch123> the PR does exactly what it says, but in a completely unhelpful manner for any player
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20:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the intention was "daylength is too complicated, let's do this instead", which is probably a bad reason to do it
20:05:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, i vote for reject. unlikely that the author supports the patch :)
20:07:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JL30J
20:07:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JvU08
20:07:16 <TrueBrain> if even the author says: bad reason, yeah .... I am not going to keep it open :)
20:08:25 <TrueBrain> 64 bottles of beer on the wall, 64 bottle of beer ...
20:09:06 <TrueBrain> I did like the simplicity of that solution btw :) Just too bad OpenTTD has many .... hardwired assumptions :P
20:12:18 <andythenorth> so rejected that way to do it, right?
20:12:22 <andythenorth> not the idea in principle?
20:13:22 <TrueBrain> we know there will be fallout, so better talk it over before, not after, yes :)
20:13:52 <TrueBrain> which is code for: someone needs to play with it, report the findings, and we need to address them ;)
20:14:06 <TrueBrain> I also wonder how NewGRFs react on the year staying the same for this long, for example
20:14:24 <TrueBrain> and answers don't have to be perfect, but currently we had "euuuuhhhh" as only answer ;)
20:14:28 <andythenorth> it's very pleasing to see PRs go away
20:14:45 <andythenorth> failed candidates doesn't mean there'll never be a good way to do it
20:14:56 <TrueBrain> by no means it is a rejection of the idea
20:15:37 <TrueBrain> funny enough, personally I prefer groundhog-year over a concept like daylength; but that is just 1 opinion :)
20:15:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JU3kc
20:15:51 <glx> yeah the idea is nice, but there's so many edgecase to check
20:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'm not sure there's many newgrf troubles. maybe industry newgrfs who overuse storage for weird stuff
20:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but those would be the same newgrfs that would have trouble with daylength
20:17:21 <TrueBrain> well, if you are up for it, it could use some testing and reporting back what broke and what worked :)
20:17:35 <TrueBrain> owh, absolutely; and it doesn't have to be a problem
20:17:37 <TrueBrain> but we need to be informed :)
20:18:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JU4lR
20:18:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL3E5
20:19:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL3EA
20:20:43 <TrueBrain> do we need a cargos vs cargoes discussion?
20:21:35 <TrueBrain> we have 1 cargos vs 8 cargoes
20:22:40 <frosch123> pretty sure rb made a cargo/cargoes spelling commit before
20:23:09 <frosch123> 3d88c74389ec978bb198415816364898963bb979
20:23:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL3ug
20:23:30 <TrueBrain> a new one sneaked in
20:23:55 <frosch123> so the consensus was "cargoes". i prefer keeping it
20:24:21 <TrueBrain> if it is 11 vs 1, the 1 is losing :)
20:24:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8383: Fix: a cargos sneaked in; should be cargoes for consistency https://git.io/JL3uy
20:25:20 <andythenorth> I am +1 to the groundhog, and would test it
20:25:49 <andythenorth> my current play style involves setting the year back 5 years occasionally anyway
20:25:55 <andythenorth> poor-man's daylength
20:26:33 <andythenorth> newgrfs that might break need to be updated
20:26:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JL3zL
20:26:41 <andythenorth> newgrfs are for christmas, not for life
20:26:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: please make sure to also test with other settings, like "vehicles-never-expire=off" :)
20:27:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8383: Fix: a cargos sneaked in; should be cargoes for consistency https://git.io/JL3zs
20:27:44 <andythenorth> frosch123 there's another way to play? :P
20:28:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JU3kc
20:28:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: ok, i'll reword. when a pr needs testing, the answer is not "works for me", but "x works, y fails, z untested"
20:29:18 <TrueBrain> I am tempted to open a Discussion for this on GitHub, just to see how that goes .. not sure that is the right form for it
20:30:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL3zp
20:31:09 <frosch123> try it :) but discussions looked pretty much the same as issues, and issues become unreadable with > 5 comments, so surprise me :p
20:31:27 <TrueBrain> yeah, I don't know either, if and how they work out
20:31:30 <TrueBrain> so sure, lets try it
20:31:48 <frosch123> want to tweet about it?
20:32:06 <frosch123> all experienced players i knew, no longer play :p
20:32:30 <andythenorth> at work we have a 'how to test' rule for PRs
20:32:46 <andythenorth> because we have separate QA roles
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20:35:29 <frosch123> what a weird feature... no idea what 8304 is useful for
20:35:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL3g1
20:36:07 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is pretty much okay in my opinion. Clearly someone has an itch, and it seems more than one person :)
20:37:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, it's again a PR that adds something without stating the intention. i guess for gui stuff it is okay to say "you can see the intention form the screenshot". but i can't :)
20:37:48 <andythenorth> I couldn't figure out how 8304 interacts with group name
20:37:56 <frosch123> my first thought was "what does this do with refit orders". the second was "maybe they do not know about vehicle cloning and forget to refit"
20:38:03 <andythenorth> it occupies the same screen space as group name
20:38:06 <andythenorth> I didn't pull it though
20:38:15 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I really do like the idea of starting to ask the intention more clear for each PR :)
20:38:19 <TrueBrain> instead of having assumption :)
20:38:23 <TrueBrain> we can fix that in the template etc :D
20:38:38 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is building a preview as we speak :)
20:38:44 <FLHerne> Yeah, I find it 8304 confusing too
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20:39:22 <FLHerne> It doesn't really make sense in case of refitting
20:39:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8383: Fix: a cargos sneaked in; should be cargoes for consistency https://git.io/JL3uy
20:39:45 <FLHerne> And in general, all cases I'd imagine using it for are better solved with groups
20:40:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7938: Feature: Setting for a year that repeats forever https://git.io/JL320
20:40:08 <_dp_> TrueBrain, can you list all know issues in 8304 discussion? like inflation, company finances, what else?
20:40:29 <TrueBrain> 8384 you mean, and no. I rather have someone takes a real look at it, and report them :)
20:40:30 <FLHerne> _dp_: Do you mean 7938?
20:40:46 * andythenorth wonders about per-window settings
20:40:50 <frosch123> 3 random numbers :)
20:40:53 <andythenorth> it's a very Apple thing to do though :P
20:42:00 <_dp_> I just feel it would be more useful to have a list in one place and update it as more are found
20:42:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3ae
20:42:38 <TrueBrain> so please create that list :)
20:42:44 <TrueBrain> not sure why you are asking me to do all the work here :)
20:42:55 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't understand why this isn't just on the PR
20:43:04 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: because we are trying something new
20:43:17 <FLHerne> something something intent :p
20:43:33 <TrueBrain> I wrote the intent pretty well in the discussion thread I hope
20:43:57 <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, you started it :p
20:44:14 <TrueBrain> so ........ you want me to review PRs? or spend time on doing stuff other people can do too? :)
20:44:25 <TrueBrain> spread the workload! :D
20:44:42 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: The intent of what it's meant to be a discussion of, but not why you created a separate discussion thread from the PR one
20:45:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8307: Feature: Show group name as part of the default vehicle name. https://git.io/JL3aK
20:45:07 <FLHerne> It makes it pretty hard to find
20:45:24 <_dp_> let's open a discussion to discuss whether we should use discussions or just write in prs! :p
20:45:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3aD
20:45:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL3ay
20:45:38 <FLHerne> (maybe it would be less hard to find if we used discussions more, so people actually considered looking at them...)
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20:45:50 <TrueBrain> which .. only happens, if we start using it
20:45:54 <TrueBrain> so not sure where this discussion is going :)
20:45:58 <TrueBrain> either way, it is there now :)
20:46:44 <TrueBrain> wow, the text above trains in 8304 is nearly unreadable (not because of the PR; it was already the case) .. dammmnnn
20:47:03 <TrueBrain> I just ... I can't. And I got glasses!
20:47:51 <frosch123> no freetype support yet?
20:48:42 <TrueBrain> I mean .. I just ... wuth?
20:49:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is the "feature" category in discussions for? should your dicussion in that category?
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20:49:26 <TrueBrain> it is why I made the category :D
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20:50:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, with the text overlapping the vehicle roof, it is indeed hard :)
20:50:26 <TrueBrain> that is with OpenGFX fonts :)
20:50:46 <TrueBrain> we tried to stick too many things in a too darn small box :D
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20:52:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7883: Fix: for original terrain generator, keep a single gap of water at the borders https://git.io/JeNQn
20:54:01 <TrueBrain> I already see a feature they should add in Discussions .. threads inside the discussion, in some form :)
20:54:18 <frosch123> you mean a reddit tree?
20:55:21 <TrueBrain> did not see I had two reply-boxes :)
20:55:58 <TrueBrain> so I guess the next request is going to be: pinning of replies :)
20:55:59 <frosch123> andythenorth: can you split your comment into one comment per headline? then people can comment per headline? or does it not work like that?
20:56:09 <andythenorth> not sure, testing it
20:56:12 <TrueBrain> I wanted to ask the same thing :D
20:56:24 <andythenorth> we want something more like...a wiki? :P
20:56:36 <andythenorth> I have to wrap birthday presents shortly
20:56:45 <TrueBrain> sounds like that should have priority :D
20:56:55 <andythenorth> but yeah I only got about half the list so far, and I bet people point out what I missed
20:57:11 <TrueBrain> so 1 reply per item makes sense in that scenario
20:57:15 <TrueBrain> what you missed, they can fill in :)
20:57:22 <TrueBrain> let's try that out! \o/ :D
21:01:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames https://git.io/JL3rE
21:02:20 <TrueBrain> owh boy, now I need to remember where I left my original TT and TTD cd image .... eeeeuuuuhhhhhh
21:02:26 <TrueBrain> that will be interesting :D
21:04:41 <LordAro> i have my TTD cd on the shelf
21:05:00 <TrueBrain> if I remember correctly, TTD had everything lowercase, and TT had almost everything uppercase
21:05:14 <TrueBrain> either way, making GM.CAT uppercase doesn't hurt (it is now lowercase)
21:05:43 <LordAro> that would follow, as TT was a dos game, and TTD was not
21:06:37 <andythenorth> ok I did some more
21:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember the original TT was on CD, but it was essentially just 2 install diskettes mushed together
21:06:45 <andythenorth> I am happy to split it up later maybe
21:07:04 <TrueBrain> I do not think the current format allows discussion ;)
21:07:09 <TrueBrain> but awesome start, cheers :)
21:07:20 <TrueBrain> I wish I could split if for you .. but then it is like I did all the work :D
21:07:31 <andythenorth> I don't mind grinding things out if it means progress
21:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think it said "playable from CD ROM" on the package, which was a lie, because it was installable, not playable
21:09:09 <TrueBrain> wow, that is spammy andythenorth :D But it is okay :D
21:09:56 <andythenorth> I have notifications off :P
21:10:52 <TrueBrain> see, I could reply to something!
21:10:53 * andythenorth considers 'freeze time' for cheat menu
21:11:01 <andythenorth> where things break anyway
21:11:28 <andythenorth> oh we removed 'switch climate' :D
21:12:15 <frosch123> TrueBrain: dos only had uppercase filenames
21:12:44 <TrueBrain> okay, so that is the correct fix for this, good
21:12:45 <frosch123> windows considered that ugly, and added some hack to display all-uppercase filenames as all-lowercase
21:12:57 <frosch123> no idea whether modern windows still does that
21:13:28 <glx> modern respect the case IIRC
21:14:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i guess unless you burn discussions within a week, we also want dorpsgek announcements for it?
21:16:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: sounds like a plan, yes
21:16:34 <TrueBrain> if you wouldn't mind making a PR for that? :D
21:16:49 <TrueBrain> I will give it a look this weekend earliest :)
21:18:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL36c
21:18:53 <andythenorth> hmm 'profit last year' for vehicles also
21:19:00 <andythenorth> and maybe servicing
21:19:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames https://git.io/JUPO4
21:19:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames https://git.io/JL36u
21:19:07 * andythenorth must to other things
21:19:08 *** Samu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:19:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL36c
21:20:01 <TrueBrain> cannot believe I fucked ^^ up .. that is impressive .... I had one job ..... lolz
21:20:18 <TrueBrain> (I did all except ".cat" for "gm-tto.cat" ...)
21:24:06 <TrueBrain> subsidiaries .. that is a nice one andythenorth .. what would that do if you get one on December :D
21:24:33 <TrueBrain> amazing what you could think of this quick, nice :)
21:28:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL3iF
21:28:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: not sure whether the DOS "hint" should be in the commit message
21:29:10 <frosch123> but it boils down to: DOS had no cases, different FS drivers interpret old DOS filename differently
21:29:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bc-lee updated pull request #8337: Fix: Suppress unnecessary warnings introduced in Xcode 12 https://git.io/JTjNh
21:30:23 <TrueBrain> I am referring to the DOS base music set
21:32:17 <TrueBrain> I was otherwise not trying to hint to DOS the OS :P
21:32:24 <TrueBrain> suggestions to word that better are welcome!
21:34:48 <frosch123> the second paragraph of the commit message talks about filenames being lowercase (without mentioning the reason) and copying new (claiming that would be uppercase)
21:34:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bc-lee commented on pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning https://git.io/JL3P5
21:35:35 <TrueBrain> owh, you meant you do want it in the commit message?
21:35:38 <frosch123> suggestion: DOS did not have cases in filenames. Different OS interpret them as either all-lowercase or all-uppercase. So we try both.
21:35:48 <TrueBrain> sorry, ambiguous :D My bad :)
21:36:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning https://git.io/JL3XT
21:37:33 <TrueBrain> awesome, tnx frosch123 ; sorry, really misunderstood you there :P
21:37:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL36c
21:37:34 <frosch123> yeah, your PRs show that github lacks the option to add review-comments to lines in commit messages :)
21:37:40 <TrueBrain> did add an extra sentence to calm people's nerves :)
21:38:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL3X4
21:39:09 <TrueBrain> one minor language fix :P
21:39:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL3X4
21:39:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL36c
21:39:42 <andythenorth> I didn't put too much spoiler on the discussion page, but I use date cheat a lot
21:39:48 <andythenorth> I don't break much
21:39:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning https://git.io/JTjNh
21:40:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8337: Fix: Remove unnessary reference to suppress warning https://git.io/JL3X9
21:40:16 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yeah. same thing. you showed me how "force-pushed" gives a diff, but it does not diff the commit message :p
21:40:23 <andythenorth> also someone gave me a guerilla daylength patch once, which set the year back once per year
21:40:30 <andythenorth> so game was half speed
21:40:47 <TrueBrain> "and if opening that files fail" -> "and if opening fails"
21:40:51 <TrueBrain> that is what I changed :P
21:40:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL3Xd
21:41:26 <TrueBrain> LordAro: lovely quick turnaround :D \o/
21:41:38 <TrueBrain> I really was not sure that did the same in C++ ... I am so terrible at C++, it makes me laugh :D
21:41:57 <LordAro> i'm getting so many emails at the moment, it's basically hit and miss whether i see any of it
21:42:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8382: Fix: [NewGRF] Action 7/9 conditions 0x0B to 0x12 failed, if 'param' was 0x85 or 0x88. https://git.io/JL3Cz
21:42:48 <frosch123> LordAro: polling can be better than event queueing :)
21:43:01 <Samu_> #7918 has a "candidate: probably not"
21:44:08 <TrueBrain> sorry not sorry LordAro :)
21:44:45 <TrueBrain> unexpected we are going to hit 59 today .. I was aiming for 60 :)
21:45:22 <andythenorth> "where's my hammer" etc
21:45:36 <TrueBrain> there is little left to hammer .. the list was already pretty clean
21:46:07 <andythenorth> I am hammering for quality :P Or I try at least
21:46:16 <andythenorth> object if I ask stormcone for intents?
21:46:23 <TrueBrain> I absolutely love I can push in other people's branches .. makes the small things go a lot quicker
21:46:30 <TrueBrain> asking for a rebase and waiting for that, ugh ...
21:46:42 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: go for it
21:46:42 <andythenorth> I read the joker commits, but am not any wiser
21:47:33 <Samu_> if the group has vehicles that already made a profit, but they are below 2 years old, using AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear gives me a 0. I thought it was a quick fix
21:47:52 <Samu_> they should give their current profit, no matter the age
21:48:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8385: Fix #8313: use correct capitalization for TTO / DOS base-music https://git.io/JL36c
21:49:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8308: Feature: Add cargo filter support to vehicle list. https://git.io/JL3MT
21:49:31 <TrueBrain> but I created feedback on Discussions on their Discussions page today :D
21:49:50 <andythenorth> GH use of emoji pisses me off somehow
21:49:56 <andythenorth> it's not one thing nor the other afaict
21:50:06 <TrueBrain> it doesn't support :) etc
21:50:17 <andythenorth> it has 'proper' emoji support, but it's all weird
21:50:34 <TrueBrain> it can go screw itself :P
21:54:08 <Samu_> hmm, if I remember, I went to try to create a 2nd cache where it would store the last year profits no matter the age, but then I came accross some obstacle in the autoreplace code during the copy of variables, and gave up.
21:54:48 <Samu_> but it doesn't invalidate the PR, it's still valid
21:55:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3Mx
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21:58:00 <andythenorth> hmm why do we have inflation?
21:58:18 <andythenorth> if we want cost inflation, do it in newgrf
21:58:40 <TrueBrain> "100000ll" <- I love random nes and zeroes
21:58:45 <TrueBrain> what shall it mean ....
21:59:03 <_dp_> it was there before me :p
21:59:12 <TrueBrain> I understand that, but ... what does it mean?
21:59:38 <TrueBrain> and why did you change it :D
21:59:44 <TrueBrain> there has to be some context around somewhere ...
21:59:51 <_dp_> it's initial balance of the company
22:00:01 <_dp_> when loan is less it becomes weird ;)
22:00:11 <TrueBrain> but your change there makes little sense to me :)
22:00:34 <TrueBrain> if the loan was part of that number, I expected that number to be changed too :P
22:00:51 <_dp_> yeah, it would be better to call it initial loan I guess
22:02:12 <TrueBrain> still, that number, wtf :P
22:02:13 <andythenorth> oof my eyes glaze over on the PR list
22:02:28 <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you join our livestream? :D
22:03:10 <_dp_> don't ask me why it loaned 100k by default though
22:03:10 <_dp_> I'd gladly put it to max loan but a lot of people would object I guess
22:03:10 <_dp_> in fact, I think I set it to max loan automatically on citymania
22:03:12 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
22:03:16 * andythenorth narrows the scope
22:03:22 <frosch123> i have neither mic nor cam, i can join in irc though :)
22:03:40 <andythenorth> also use funds to send frosch a mic or cam
22:03:51 <andythenorth> so either voice and no face, or face and random waving
22:03:54 <andythenorth> maybe the letter
22:04:00 <TrueBrain> ooowwwwhhhh, it is ll, not 11
22:04:06 <TrueBrain> font ... this is annoying
22:04:09 <frosch123> also, what livestream? just a party? or higher intentions?
22:04:10 <TrueBrain> okay, I understand now :)
22:04:26 <andythenorth> if "higher intentions" includes lolz, yes
22:04:33 <TrueBrain> frosch123: my current idea, put 5 of us or so on camera
22:04:40 <TrueBrain> start talking about features
22:04:44 <TrueBrain> showcase what people have done
22:04:58 <andythenorth> test them on stream
22:04:59 <TrueBrain> and by jury, get some ground covered
22:05:03 <andythenorth> can we MP in wasm yet?
22:05:08 <TrueBrain> but mostly: alcohol and giggles :P
22:05:08 <frosch123> ah, i guess i can use my phone then
22:05:14 <andythenorth> multiplayer coop was so good for advancing the game
22:05:18 <andythenorth> the nightly server etc
22:05:29 <TrueBrain> _dp _: sorry, totally misread that line, it is clear to me now :D
22:05:58 <frosch123> so its ages ago that i used skype on it. no idea whether it still works :)
22:06:19 <_dp_> TrueBrain, lol, I haven't even realised you read those as 1s xD
22:06:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it will be Discord in that case :)
22:07:04 <frosch123> they think i am a bot
22:07:20 <frosch123> but maybe when i use a different device, different email, they don't notice
22:07:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3y7
22:07:23 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
22:07:33 <TrueBrain> it is REALLY nitpicking :)
22:09:14 <TrueBrain> owh, I guess so you can join multiplayer servers directly with the correct version
22:10:39 *** Samu_ has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
22:11:06 <frosch123> extend it to also download the correct version :p
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22:11:26 <TrueBrain> lolz, passwords in the protocol handler .. shall we not do that? Pretty please? :D
22:12:02 <TrueBrain> the SecOps in me is exploding; nothing to worry about :)
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22:12:51 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's on the same level as #coops !password
22:12:52 <TrueBrain> only if we rebrand it as "secret password phrase you have to say at the door of the nightclub" :)
22:13:05 <frosch123> everyone who knows the place to get the info can join, random people are kept out
22:13:17 <TrueBrain> until someone doesn't understand it :)
22:13:20 <milek7> eg. passworded server with link to it on private forum
22:13:25 <frosch123> company pw is unusual though
22:13:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3Mx
22:13:38 <TrueBrain> well, yes, that mostly triggered me :P
22:14:05 <TrueBrain> server password ... like coop, they understand what they are doing
22:14:17 <TrueBrain> for some reason I can see the bugreport: someone got in my server?!?!?! :P
22:14:41 <TrueBrain> but okay, password is all kind of wrong in OpenTTD to start with, so not sure this is worth any battle over :D
22:15:00 <TrueBrain> I just read it as "invite code", and I am good :)
22:15:50 <TrueBrain> should the installer register a client, or should the client be capable of registering itself .. hmm .. what is common ..
22:16:48 <_dp_> that query parser looks very rudimentary
22:16:57 <_dp_> can it handle & and % in password for example?
22:17:09 <TrueBrain> you can escape them :)
22:17:36 <TrueBrain> which is pretty neat; I wouldn't have done that :P
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22:18:38 <_dp_> didn't quite realize it looking at the parser :p
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22:19:34 <TrueBrain> I would put "min(INITIAL_LOAN, _economy.max_loan) " in a variable btw, just because that line is already LLOOONNNGGGG :P
22:19:48 <milek7> passwords are annoying anyway
22:19:52 <milek7> can we replace them with public-key auth?
22:19:59 <TrueBrain> tests are failing :)
22:20:08 <_dp_> TrueBrain, that whatever, but I use linux myself...
22:20:10 <TrueBrain> milek7: when is your SSL implementation PR coming? :D
22:20:17 <TrueBrain> did you run "make test"? :)
22:20:33 <TrueBrain> seems there is a boo-boo somewhere
22:20:42 <TrueBrain> or the test is weird
22:20:44 <TrueBrain> ah, no, test is weird
22:21:13 <_dp_> where do I even find tests?
22:21:43 <TrueBrain> regression/regression is the one that is failing
22:21:53 <TrueBrain> basically what it does, on a preset map it runs an AI which does all kinds of stuff
22:21:58 <TrueBrain> and the output is compared
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22:24:06 <milek7> TrueBrain: this is not related to TLS
22:24:50 <TrueBrain> if we can do HTTPS, we can "solve" passwords pretty easily :)
22:25:31 <milek7> HTTPS talk was about content server, no?
22:25:39 <TrueBrain> well, we could over HTTP, but we need some crypt to setup trust .. so SSL, lol
22:26:03 <TrueBrain> the moments I talk about HTTPS it is mostly because I want a centralized authentication mechanism
22:26:11 <TrueBrain> (well, "centralized" .. you can pick which one you want to use)
22:26:18 <_dp_> where does this test takes config from? regression.cfg is almost empty and it should be 300k max loan by default
22:26:19 <TrueBrain> as that allows cloud saves
22:26:23 <TrueBrain> but also a lot of other shit :)
22:26:57 <_dp_> I mean what openttd.cfg it runs with
22:27:27 <milek7> I thought about: at first launch generate pubkey and store in .openttd directory
22:27:34 <_dp_> well, it's 300k there so neither 500k nor 2mm is right
22:27:35 <milek7> use that pubkey automatically when creating and accessing companies
22:27:51 <TrueBrain> milek7: generating pubkey requires an SSL library :D
22:27:59 <TrueBrain> but yeah, that is a method too, for sure :)
22:28:14 <milek7> nah, I don't want TLS for this
22:28:31 <TrueBrain> you keep saying TLS, I mean an SSL library :) One that can do RSA or what-ever :)
22:29:12 <TrueBrain> something that does a safe crypto
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22:31:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Q8
22:31:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol updated pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JklGO
22:32:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Q0
22:32:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3QE
22:32:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Qu
22:32:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3Q2
22:34:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JL3QX
22:34:34 <TrueBrain> milek7: libcurl is easiest, as it gives us HTTPS, but openssl / wolfSSL / bearSSL is most robust, as it gives us all kind of choices. If we do any of that, all these problems can easily be resolved
22:34:42 <TrueBrain> we could also hook into the crypto some OSes offer
22:34:53 <TrueBrain> but that just means we are doing it our self :D
22:35:35 <milek7> I would rather do that crypto-password-replacement and https-content as completely independent things
22:35:45 <TrueBrain> what https-content do you refer to?
22:35:52 <TrueBrain> owh, instead of the http
22:35:58 <TrueBrain> that is very low on my list of prios :)
22:36:15 <TrueBrain> anyway, if we plan on doing HTTPS, you can solve authentication a lot nicer
22:36:24 <TrueBrain> so doing any password replacement would be rather short-term
22:37:22 <milek7> HTTPS is just secure transport, how it solves authentication?
22:37:23 <TrueBrain> you need that env variable to get output
22:37:32 <TrueBrain> CTEST_OUTPUT_ON_FAILURE=1
22:37:40 <TrueBrain> milek7: certificates!
22:37:53 <milek7> I don't think you want client-side certs? :P
22:38:03 <_dp_> ah, ok, no graphics set, cool :/
22:38:12 <TrueBrain> no; I want trust between client and a Centralized Authenticator :)
22:38:21 <TrueBrain> haha, yeah, that is always annoying
22:38:27 <TrueBrain> put OpenGFX in your ~/.openttd/baseset
22:38:30 <TrueBrain> and it will work :)
22:38:45 <milek7> ah, central authorization
22:38:50 <TrueBrain> milek7: I once wrote it all down, but we shut down the server it was one :D
22:39:12 <TrueBrain> but what we do for BaNaNaS for example
22:39:18 <TrueBrain> just a simple OAuth2 flow
22:39:33 <milek7> this feels bit icky, central authorization in oss game ;P
22:39:40 <TrueBrain> it is not centralized in that sense
22:39:49 <TrueBrain> but it is like our content service
22:39:56 <TrueBrain> we offer a place too
22:40:15 <TrueBrain> in my plans I left room for a server to announce the CA it wants you to use
22:40:20 <TrueBrain> so server operators can pick
22:41:06 <TrueBrain> but, honestly, most people would use ours
22:41:16 <TrueBrain> but, freedom of choice; I personally wouldn't care :)
22:41:26 <TrueBrain> so it fits perfectly in an OSS game :)
22:41:45 <milek7> and anyway, it requires user to come up with password, create account, etc.
22:41:50 <TrueBrain> _dp _: it is possible the current regression was already broken
22:42:12 <TrueBrain> milek7: doesn't have to, honestly
22:42:22 <TrueBrain> so many possibilities :D
22:42:41 <TrueBrain> what does happen, however, is that you unique assign an ID to a user, in what-ever-way
22:43:27 <TrueBrain> for companies, this is most obvious: it means you can auto-lock a company to a player, and he can invite other players (that first join as spectator, for example)
22:43:33 <TrueBrain> never any password nothing
22:43:41 <TrueBrain> that would be smooth as silk :)
22:45:08 <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, it sure looks like but what should I do? "fix" the test?
22:45:23 <TrueBrain> I rather have you investigate why it breaks, but not sure you are up for that :D
22:45:40 <_dp_> well, I tried but no result so far
22:45:44 <TrueBrain> _economy.max_loan is really that big number
22:45:48 <_dp_> also it seems unrelated to my change
22:45:52 <TrueBrain> so it would need some debugging to figure out why that happens
22:46:07 <TrueBrain> sometimes one fix shows another problem, sadly
22:46:18 <_dp_> it seems regression somehow fucks up with config
22:46:44 <TrueBrain> it might be the savegame
22:46:54 <TrueBrain> and that there is a load-mechanism making it max
22:47:43 <TrueBrain> I told you that, yes :D
22:47:55 <TrueBrain> it fully runs in a known-state
22:48:00 <TrueBrain> no worries, I am just teasing you :)
22:48:34 <milek7> isn't it just AI that tries to take maximum loan, so results are different now?
22:49:07 <TrueBrain> but why does the max-loan change? His patch only changes the setting what that max-loan value is
22:51:54 <_dp_> it something about that save it seems
22:52:02 <_dp_> doesn't change for my saves
22:52:19 <TrueBrain> most likely the savegame version in that case
22:52:26 <TrueBrain> one from before 97, I would guess
22:53:34 <TrueBrain> `dbg: [sl] Loading savegame version 104`
22:54:05 <TrueBrain> converted from an older savegame
22:55:00 <TrueBrain> sadly, it does mean we have to find what is going on, as this can influence older savegames a lot :)
22:55:13 <TrueBrain> grepping on max_loan doesn't help me at all ...
22:55:24 <TrueBrain> the black magic around the settings system is ... "nice" I guess? :D
22:55:38 <_dp_> but I should be able to figure it out eventually
22:55:49 <_dp_> I'm kinda familiar with those parts xD
22:56:03 <TrueBrain> would be really great, and it most likely shows a bug we are like: how did we not notice this earlier?!
22:56:51 <TrueBrain> but loading that savegame manually shows a max-loan of 500k
22:57:30 <_dp_> it somehow sets it to max of that setting on load instead of default or whatever
22:57:42 <_dp_> so 500k without patch and 2mm with
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22:58:01 <TrueBrain> that is .... bad :P
22:59:29 <TrueBrain> with UINT32_MAX, it does cap off at 2B
22:59:38 <TrueBrain> so .... possibly 2B is in the savegame
22:59:42 <TrueBrain> and it was just clamped all this time :D
23:00:03 <_dp_> now that's an interesting theory...
23:00:15 <_dp_> I'll try to feed it to my python xD
23:00:34 <TrueBrain> change your max to like 2,500,000,000
23:00:42 <TrueBrain> what a stupidity :D Holy crap :)
23:06:47 <TrueBrain> upperlimit always has been 500k
23:06:57 <TrueBrain> so that means someone did something evil :)
23:07:10 <TrueBrain> but please confirm that value is really in the savegame
23:07:10 <_dp_> my python doesn't eat OTTZ... sad python :(
23:07:28 <TrueBrain> and that also means you can just fix the result.txt with the new values :)
23:07:45 <TrueBrain> off to bed for me; good luck with this WTF IS THIS CRAP from 2008 or so :P
23:08:29 <milek7> so, I could write sometime pubkey authorization, or you want to do your cloud thingy?
23:11:16 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
23:14:59 <TrueBrain> Personally I would prefer someone puts time in getting an SSL library in board, but you should do what you enjoy :) And if that is toying with pubkey implementations, you should do so :D
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23:16:04 <TrueBrain> Don't make it all polished before sharing, I would suggest :)
23:17:00 <TrueBrain> What I like about OpenTTD, there is a lot of room to do shit you enjoy :)
23:17:25 <TrueBrain> And if I am given the choice you doing nothing or doing pubkey, I take the pubkey :D
23:17:42 <TrueBrain> So dealers choice milek7 :)
23:19:09 <milek7> again, I think any library I would use there should be not related with eventual https support (which should use libcurl/winhttp/whatever depending on platform)
23:20:39 <TrueBrain> I agree, that is why I think openssl, WolfSSL is more likely
23:20:49 <TrueBrain> As libcurl does not offer https server, I believe
23:21:08 <TrueBrain> But .. someone has to explore this
23:21:30 <TrueBrain> So pubkey is as good as a start as any ;)
23:21:53 <TrueBrain> Lollzzzz ... riggghhhttt .. :D
23:21:54 <_dp_> that's pure python so only original bugs xD
23:22:55 <_dp_> someone's been naughty this year for sure :p
23:23:01 <_dp_> well, some year I guess...
23:24:17 <_dp_> tbh the way max loan is stored changed so much I'm not surprised it got borked
23:25:20 <_dp_> so, funnily enough, it will even be 100% correct with the new patch :p
23:25:33 <_dp_> as that value is now valid
23:29:21 <_dp_> that may or may not mean that afterload is not right for some old versions though...
23:33:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3Mx
23:35:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3pE
23:39:53 <_dp_> hm... those settings... I wonder if that's the bug in my python or pf penalties are even more broken
23:41:57 <milek7> starting year -805306361?
23:43:33 <_dp_> yeah, looks like python oopsie
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23:44:16 <_dp_> well, at least it decoded what mattered :p
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continue to next day ⏵
