IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-12-14
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00:00:57 <TrueBrain> I am trying to go to bed for an hour now, but this is to tempting to solve :P
00:01:53 <TrueBrain> that is fucking crazy
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00:02:28 <glx> so always and no fail nor cancelled is probably the check to do
00:02:47 <TrueBrain> if: always() && needs.source.result == 'success' && needs.docs.result == 'success' && (needs.linux.result == 'success' || needs.linux.result == 'skipped') && needs.macos.result == 'success' && needs.windows.result == 'success'
00:03:13 <TrueBrain> azulcosta: I will investigate tomorrow further, but I think you can change >= 1.10.2 into >= 1.10.0, and that should fix it
00:03:26 <TrueBrain> but it is a wild guess, I have no real evidence to support that claim :)
00:03:44 <glx> azulcosta: at least it is visible in nightlies
00:04:11 <TrueBrain> except for a gut feeling :P
00:05:09 <azulcosta> oh... i'll try that...
00:05:26 <azulcosta> i was asking what's the lower version build that support 32bpp+4x zoom
00:07:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIiDr
00:07:31 <TrueBrain> euuhhh .... that would be several versions back :D
00:07:34 <TrueBrain> we would have to look that up :)
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00:08:29 <TrueBrain> 1.2.0-beta1 had 4x zoom
00:08:46 <TrueBrain> 32bpp already existed by then :P
00:09:09 <TrueBrain> azulcosta: so yeah, 1.10.0 should be fine, but so will 1.9.0; any older is not really useful :)
00:09:31 <TrueBrain> glx: I am happy we kept trying and now found a clean way to do this :D And for some stupid reason ... I am sure I have seen this before, and figured it out before ... :P
00:09:35 <manu1511> am going to install this game again, let's hope i do understand train signals this time, this game is quite difficult to master. although earning ingame money isn't as hard, it isn't really about money i think
00:09:38 <TrueBrain> but these things, you tend to completely forget :)
00:09:54 <manu1511> i'm just glad to have game i don't need steam or any emulator for
00:09:58 <glx> TrueBrain: seems smarter than condition: succeededOrFailed() on azure
00:10:09 <TrueBrain> manu1511: if you are looking for some help, guidance and a friendly community, feel free to join the OpenTTD Discord
00:10:29 <TrueBrain> there are many people on Discord helping out with all kinds of playing-the-game related problems :)
00:10:45 <TrueBrain> and happy you like it :D
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00:10:59 <TrueBrain> it is DRM free too!
00:11:34 <TrueBrain> (well, that made it sound like we are not friendly; we are too :P But mostly focused on development of the game itself :D)
00:11:46 <glx> as on azure we always run the manifest job even if there's a fail before, and usually rerun fails on manifest
00:11:58 <manu1511> TrueBrain: thank you, i wish i could leave discord, i don't really like all those distractions, have some issues there. oh so this is just the developments channel?
00:12:24 <TrueBrain> we help from time to time people with gameplay related questions, but honestly, we are not that good at it :D
00:12:39 <TrueBrain> Discord has many active players, who are much better in helping out :D
00:12:47 <TrueBrain> I personally haven't played in ... 5+ years :P
00:12:49 <glx> we don't play that much ;)
00:12:51 <TrueBrain> it is funny how that goes :D
00:13:22 <manu1511> i remember there was a "plugin" for the ui sizing issue, as it is quite small here on 1920x1080
00:13:30 <manu1511> double font size doesnt look that neat though
00:13:52 <manu1511> you just develop so others have fun? :)
00:14:07 <glx> you can set a custom font and set its size
00:14:16 <azulcosta> how long does the server/ in-game grf refresh list updates ? 3h/3h 6h/6h, a day? more ?
00:14:32 <TrueBrain> azulcosta: see, now it is listed :)
00:14:36 <TrueBrain> azulcosta: near instant
00:14:45 <TrueBrain> but it is already there
00:14:54 <TrueBrain> at least, I can see it :P
00:14:59 <glx> manu1511: there's also a setting for gui zoom
00:15:29 <manu1511> glx: i see those settings, i just wish they look as good as normal size, my eyes are just bad :)
00:15:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIiDr
00:16:02 <azulcosta> Yyyyyyeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh !!! amazing! thanks Truebrain! now i can sleep more happy!
00:16:19 <manu1511> i wonder if there are some powerful keyboard shortcuts, i'm a vi/emacs user and prefer anything shortcuts
00:16:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIjKB
00:16:25 <TrueBrain> azulcosta: enjoy :)
00:16:42 <TrueBrain> okay, time to get some zzzzzzzz
00:16:48 <TrueBrain> I think the release-workflow is done :)
00:16:54 <TrueBrain> so I can sleep happily too :)
00:17:14 <glx> manu1511: there are many keyboard shortcuts, and most are configurable
00:17:43 <manu1511> TrueBrain: have a good night!
00:17:56 <manu1511> glx: how did you get into openttd development?
00:18:55 <glx> I started by fixing an annoying floppy drive access, a long time ago :)
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02:26:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLvID
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08:41:45 <TrueBrain> owh boy, in .deb files the GLOBAL_DIR is set wrong ..
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08:52:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIiDr
08:54:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JLU2w
08:54:13 <TrueBrain> ready for review ^^
08:55:31 <TrueBrain> I tested it; it works
08:58:13 <TrueBrain> I wanted to test my new code, only to forget Linux targets are skipped for nightlies :D Ghehe
08:58:59 <TrueBrain> let me release 20.0.0-beta1 :P (it is a tag of fiction, to be clear)
09:00:34 <andythenorth> it's the morning
09:00:42 <TrueBrain> the artifact store of GitHub tends to disconnect from time to time
09:01:06 <TrueBrain> but retrying is easy, so it is fine :)
09:05:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIiDr
09:05:56 <TrueBrain> and removed Azure Pipelines :)
09:06:07 <TrueBrain> we can't have 2 nightlies running :P
09:22:12 <LordAro> andythenorth: oh no, where?
09:25:47 <andythenorth> LordAro all around us
09:25:52 <andythenorth> it's everywhere!
09:30:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain updated pull request #10: Add: improve workflows for upcoming OpenTTD release workflow https://git.io/JIhRs
09:30:40 <TrueBrain> right, that is done too. Just need 3 PRs reviewed, and the new release-workflow should work :)
09:31:11 <TrueBrain> hmm .. okay, this is funny
09:31:15 <TrueBrain> Stretch and Xenial build
09:31:17 <TrueBrain> the others do not :P
09:31:25 <TrueBrain> they don't have shlib installed :D
09:31:52 <TrueBrain> what package has that ...
09:34:31 <TrueBrain> I am guessing debhelper
09:42:21 <TrueBrain> but funny that the oldest of them all work, and the later do not :D That makes me giggle
09:43:26 <LordAro> it's funny what they decide is part of the base install sometimes
09:43:39 <LordAro> you should try using the ubuntu-minimal containers sometime
09:43:48 <LordAro> they have barely anything :p
09:44:21 <TrueBrain> not sure that is a bad thing :)
09:44:52 <TrueBrain> okay, debhelper was the key :)
09:44:58 <TrueBrain> they are now turning green :D
09:45:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JIiDr
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10:32:12 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yesterday we did 0.5GB for BaNaNaS to AWS infra :)
10:32:16 <TrueBrain> that is a nice improvement :D
10:32:38 <TrueBrain> so that seems to work fine :D
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10:52:39 <LordAro> presumably that should go down as well
10:52:56 <LordAro> TrueBrain: do PR the manual change you made
10:53:36 <TrueBrain> yup, next on my list :)
10:53:47 <TrueBrain> the 0.5GB is from new content :)
10:54:08 <TrueBrain> (it is not really 500MB, but it is just the traffic that is needed to validate that etc)
10:55:21 <LordAro> that seems quite high?
10:57:09 <DorpsGek> - Add: start using mirrors for BaNaNaS content (by TrueBrain)
10:57:10 <DorpsGek> - Fix: increase the cache size of production (by TrueBrain)
10:57:11 <DorpsGek> - Add: preview subdomain where emscripten-based previews are uploaded (by TrueBrain)
10:57:43 <TrueBrain> I guess ... not to bothered with 500MB honestly :)
10:59:34 <TrueBrain> I still cannot believe emscripten works, including publishing etc
10:59:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
11:00:11 <TrueBrain> right, that were all the chores I had
11:00:39 <TrueBrain> sadly, and I honestly wish we were in a better spot, it is mostly now up to you LordAro :)
11:01:44 <TrueBrain> now first: lunch! After: PRs of others :D
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13:07:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JLk4n
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13:30:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8337: Fix: Suppress unnecessary warnings introduced in Xcode 12 https://git.io/JLkwU
13:32:19 <orudge> [13:18:58] <TrueBrain> bah, I want to compile OpenTTD quicker ... guess I should buy an M1 after all :P <-- :D
13:32:36 <TrueBrain> I am REALLY tempted, you have to know :P
13:32:49 <TrueBrain> okay, I have another PR I just want to preview ....
13:33:09 <orudge> They are impressive machines for the price (given it is Apple hardware of course)
13:33:19 <TrueBrain> 600 euro, is seriously cheap
13:33:23 <TrueBrain> just the memory is .. low
13:33:26 <TrueBrain> and 200 euro for 8GB
13:33:38 <TrueBrain> like .. 30% more for 8GB of RAM
13:33:42 <TrueBrain> that is so out of whack
13:34:12 <orudge> but the Mac Mini isn't my primary machine, it may get used for some work things and for OpenTTD dev (maybe OpenTTD play if I ever get the chance :D)
13:34:12 <TrueBrain> who to bribe to get the emscripten PR reviewed :P
13:34:38 <TrueBrain> I had to extend my machine with another 16GB RAM, because of WSL2 :P
13:34:43 <TrueBrain> I kept hitting a wall :D
13:37:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JLk61
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13:45:23 <TrueBrain> we need a set of judges from experienced players to say yah or nah to certain changes :)
13:48:12 <dwfreed> community advisory board
13:49:07 <TrueBrain> it really wouldn't hurt, honestly :)
13:49:55 <dwfreed> but how do you determine who should be on it
13:54:55 <TrueBrain> I can give you names; just don't know if they would be interested :P
13:55:08 <TrueBrain> but it can also just be a voting system for all I care :)
13:58:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8342: Feature #8095: Allow automatically separating vehicles in shared orders https://git.io/JLkQw
13:59:15 <TrueBrain> on a few of these PRs, I just want to put: let's merge this if nobody disagrees
13:59:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8282: Fix: Add stable economy type that doesn't ruin scenarios with non-standard industry generation https://git.io/JLkQd
14:02:52 <_dp_> it's not as about adding economies then just that openttd needs more "stop this shit" options
14:03:20 <TrueBrain> we have people in all extremes when it comes to these things :)
14:03:29 <TrueBrain> there is just a limit on how many you want to hard-code :)
14:04:27 <TrueBrain> but in general, I am the kind of person that would rip out the original industry/trains/etc and put them in GRFs too
14:04:33 <TrueBrain> and just have nothing in the game itself when it comes to these things :D
14:04:40 <TrueBrain> I might be a bit extreme there :P
14:04:50 <FLHerne> Ah, the Simutrans model
14:04:58 <_dp_> TrueBrain, I want to hard-code all the options to disable all the questinable mechanics that are already hard-coded :p
14:05:00 <FLHerne> It's not very new-user-friendly
14:05:13 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: you need a very good bootstrapper, that is for sure
14:05:25 <TrueBrain> just with these kind of games .. everyone has an opinion
14:05:34 <TrueBrain> so better leave it to all those people to figure out what works best :D
14:05:44 <TrueBrain> this PR is totally fine for me, I just digressed a bit :D
14:08:08 <TrueBrain> it somehow sounds like a bad idea, but you need to try it out to know that :)
14:10:03 * FLHerne likes all the features :P
14:11:02 <_dp_> 8274 sounds nice as an idea but haven't tried it yet
14:11:43 <TrueBrain> many of these PRs need code-wise attention
14:11:55 <TrueBrain> but that is not really important :)
14:16:05 <TrueBrain> there is no way on earth I am going to be able to estimate the quality of those PRs :P
14:16:48 <andythenorth> so many of them are niche use cases
14:16:56 <andythenorth> I find it really hard to estimate their value
14:17:00 <andythenorth> and I play the game more than you :P
14:17:35 <TrueBrain> it is a balance of how much code does it introduce vs how many people will use it :)
14:18:00 <TrueBrain> like "stable" economy, the real code change is very minor, so it is near irrelevant; so even if it helps 2 people, it is worth merging
14:18:29 <TrueBrain> even if it would be very niche
14:19:23 <andythenorth> My little pony :)
14:19:43 <andythenorth> 8307 is probably good
14:19:51 <andythenorth> I could pull some of these and test them maybe
14:23:59 <TrueBrain> honestly, I want my preview mode :)
14:24:12 <TrueBrain> I am like a child with a new toy :P
14:24:24 <TrueBrain> but without joking, it needs more than just you toying around with these changes :)
14:24:33 <TrueBrain> some sound bad, but might be good. Some sound good, but might be bad.
14:24:38 <TrueBrain> Just reading the code is not sufficient :)
14:28:57 <LordAro> there have been at least a couple over the years
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14:29:19 <LordAro> istr adf88(?) making one at some point
14:30:01 <TrueBrain> I am a bit surprised, most PRs are of decent quality, as in: the idea is solid
14:30:08 <TrueBrain> the code is of course a toss-up, but that is normal
14:30:18 <LordAro> i don't think people have ever been sure whether it's actually a desirable feature to have in the "actual" game
14:30:46 <TrueBrain> I don't see a reason why not, except for it bloating the interface further
14:30:52 <TrueBrain> but we have other similar games now showing how to solve that :)
14:31:06 <LordAro> indeed, this was pre-factorio doiong it, i think
14:31:35 <TrueBrain> okay ... I think I am just going to classify PRs
14:32:01 <TrueBrain> as we have very small ones, that just need a bit of attention .. and we have huge ones, which you only want to do 1 a day of :P
14:32:22 <TrueBrain> we have those that need an opinion, and those that just need to iron out the code itself
14:33:15 <TrueBrain> first I am going to remove the remaining "stale" labels; clearly that means nothing :D
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14:35:00 <andythenorth> can we build streaming into the wasm client? :P
14:35:49 * andythenorth had idea that once a month we stream as a group, where we all test out PRs, whilst drinking
14:35:55 <andythenorth> and ask for charity donations also :P
14:36:17 <TrueBrain> ignoring the last part, that could be really cool :)
14:36:27 <andythenorth> amount donated per PR is used to weight the chances of it getting in
14:36:40 <TrueBrain> I honestly wish I had the intention of learning streaming etc .. it sounds really fun to do for a lot of shit :)
14:36:47 <andythenorth> in which we would learn how much I talk over people
14:36:50 <andythenorth> but without a loud voice
14:36:59 <andythenorth> so you just get mumble mumble mumble all the time
14:37:02 <TrueBrain> it does compliment the idea of having a jury :P
14:37:16 <TrueBrain> put 5 people in stream, and debate PRs :P
14:37:38 <andythenorth> streaming the gameplay, not the faces
14:37:52 <andythenorth> I watched Peter and Niels live coding and live playing
14:37:54 <andythenorth> quite interesting
14:38:16 <TrueBrain> faces should be there too
14:38:19 <TrueBrain> that adds to the fun :)
14:48:01 <_dp_> LordAro, improving rail building is like one of the most requested features :p
14:48:04 <_dp_> patches for it kinda suck though
14:48:12 <_dp_> but polyrail is definitely an improvement
14:48:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: andythenorth: not entirely opposed
14:49:05 <nielsm> <TrueBrain> faces should be there too <-- I suggest using Live2D to rig the face art from the game and use that instead of real faces
14:49:19 <TrueBrain> nielsm: YES! YES ! THOUSAND TIMES YES! :D
14:49:25 <TrueBrain> does it animate? :)
14:49:27 <andythenorth> I never use my real face
14:50:03 <TrueBrain> This would be so much funnier on stream :P
14:51:00 <LordAro> TrueBrain: today i am having fun with s3 \o/
14:51:02 <andythenorth> shall we start a patchpack?
14:51:19 <TrueBrain> LordAro: that is fun :)
14:51:28 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I did; I call it vanilla :)
14:53:50 <andythenorth> maybe I should start one
14:53:53 <andythenorth> the stripped down version
14:54:28 <andythenorth> could we separate the client and the UI client? :P
14:55:46 <TrueBrain> 2 PRs about the same, one mentioning that the other is going to be closed at a later date .. that fails my logic
14:56:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JLIcr
14:58:28 <andythenorth> I asked JGR why the client is so much faster than vanilla on macos
14:58:56 <andythenorth> but there's a lot there :P
15:01:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JLIWr
15:03:59 <LordAro> that's a common feature of samu PRs
15:04:29 <LordAro> the easy/medium/hard difficulty buttons, i presume is the reason
15:04:30 <TrueBrain> lol, calling console from UI
15:04:33 <TrueBrain> now that is awesome :P
15:04:40 <TrueBrain> yeah, I found out after reading the patch :)
15:05:39 <andythenorth> "Generally we are better served by having less UI, not more."
15:05:42 <andythenorth> give me that on a T-Shirt
15:05:52 <andythenorth> great words be me there
15:05:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/JLI40
15:05:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/Jv91y
15:06:04 * andythenorth you're welcome andythenorth, any time
15:06:19 <andythenorth> mostly Samu PRs, sadly, can be closed
15:10:33 <milek7> there was talk about optimizng sprite sorter, what happened with that?
15:11:43 <LordAro> the original was bugged, and then JGR found a different solution to the issue that they were having?
15:11:55 <LordAro> so improving sprite sorting hasn't been a priority
15:12:38 <_dp_> cmclient has new sorter for almost a year already and noone complained so far...
15:13:33 <_dp_> but it mostly matters for 4k
15:13:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8008: Feature: Double-click to rename vehicle https://git.io/JLIuJ
15:25:38 <milek7> _dp_: I'm not getting any improvement on cmclient, though
15:26:25 <_dp_> milek7, try on 4k with full screen redraw (moving map fast)
15:26:41 <_dp_> though I haven't tested it myself since
15:27:37 <TrueBrain> seems they both change things the different direction
15:28:22 <TrueBrain> but by the same user
15:35:22 <milek7> _dp_: I'm testing on unzoom
15:37:43 <_dp_> milek7, it should, but don't see any difference myself either
15:38:05 <_dp_> though cmclient may have other stuff slowing it down
15:44:34 <_dp_> hm, interesting, looks like cmclient doesn't have dechunking patch for some reason so sprite sorter is irrelevant
15:49:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/JLI9R
15:49:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting https://git.io/fjMsZ
15:53:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7503: Feature: Add aircraft type dropdown in Autoreplace window https://git.io/fjqQz
15:57:50 <TrueBrain> okay, I couldn't easily classify 25 PRs; the rest all has a classification
15:58:46 <TrueBrain> 30 PRs should be merged, once they are cleaned up, 8 looks okay, but need another opinion, 7 should be closed in my opinion
15:58:55 <TrueBrain> if anyone disagrees, let me know; otherwise I close them next week or so
16:01:27 <_dp_> milek7, fixed it, seems slightly faster now
16:02:04 <_dp_> though I've no idea wtf I tested it on to see 50% I initially wrote about :/
16:06:34 <TrueBrain> that is still more than 0% :)
16:08:21 <milek7> on 2x4K it is 220ms instead of 320ms
16:09:11 <TrueBrain> look at you all fancy with your 2x 4K screens
16:11:21 <_dp_> % should go better with more screen height
16:11:43 <andythenorth> thanks TrueBrain \o/
16:12:12 <TrueBrain> its a first iteration to get a bit of an overview where we stand :)
16:12:13 <_dp_> ah, no, nvm, just with size
16:12:30 <TrueBrain> (and to be honest about some stuff :P)
16:12:45 * andythenorth orange double yellows all the way
16:12:51 <andythenorth> known cause of accidents though
16:13:14 <andythenorth> tired driver on 25 miles of double yellows cancels the audible signal warning on a red without noticing
16:13:18 <andythenorth> crashes into train in front
16:13:29 <andythenorth> it's why Japan has point-and-say for signals
16:13:57 * _dp_ has HD monitor with logical size of 4k
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16:14:53 <andythenorth> TrueBrain 'properly not' or 'probably not' ?
16:15:04 <TrueBrain> I knew it was wrong :P
16:15:21 <andythenorth> 'properly not' is fine, but they'd want closed :P
16:15:57 <TrueBrain> it are these things .. they sound the same .. you look at it like: this isn't right .. but what-ever
16:16:13 <andythenorth> I can't even English
16:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a case of "this is technically a proper phrase, but it has a meaning you did not intend"
16:16:23 <andythenorth> their / there / they're
16:17:31 <andythenorth> TrueBrain so is this like a priming thing?
16:17:43 <TrueBrain> depends on what you mean with it :)
16:17:47 <andythenorth> if the problem is reviewers, we'll only get more reviewers by getting contributors
16:17:54 <andythenorth> and we don't get contributors if we don't review
16:18:03 <TrueBrain> it is like .. it is .. a circle! :P
16:18:15 <andythenorth> a virtuous circle? Or a jerky circle?
16:18:17 <TrueBrain> activity always only results from activity
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16:19:06 <TrueBrain> "suspicious concatenation of string literals in an array initialization; did you mean to separate the elements with a comma? [-Wstring-concatenation]" I love that warning :)
16:20:08 <TrueBrain> "Mot\xC5\x82""awa", <- I don't even know
16:20:21 <TrueBrain> can the "" be removed?
16:22:03 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Depends what it's supposed to mean...
16:22:14 <FLHerne> Either removed, or escaped
16:22:17 <milek7> actually these displays costed ~400$ (for one) and have worse smearing than cheap 1080p I had before
16:22:22 <milek7> so annoying I had to disable browser smooth scrolling
16:22:30 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: we have a few of them .. and they are all in a language I do not understand
16:22:36 <TrueBrain> so I cannot guestimate the intended behaviour :D
16:25:21 <TrueBrain> the ones Emscripten poops out
16:25:56 <TrueBrain> clicking on them is ... not bringing you to a place that is useful
16:26:12 <milek7> \x82a would probably error out
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16:27:03 <TrueBrain> looking at that, I guess I can deduce the issue is [a-f] after \xNN
16:27:13 <milek7> test.cpp:70:16: warning: hex escape sequence out of range
16:27:34 <LordAro> TrueBrain: the "" cannot be removed as it concatenates the escape code to \x82a
16:27:55 <TrueBrain> our C++ files are UTF-8 encoded, right?
16:28:08 <TrueBrain> and this is an UTF-8 escaped character, not?
16:28:18 <TrueBrain> can we replace it with an unicode char instead?
16:28:29 <TrueBrain> or is that still too brrrrr for C++ files?
16:28:34 <LordAro> i think still too brrr
16:28:36 <TrueBrain> (so happy in Python3 that is no longer an issue)
16:28:50 <LordAro> possibly could use a unicode escape instead? \u1234
16:28:54 <LordAro> i think those are fixed length
16:29:08 <TrueBrain> as this is a warning with a newer clang
16:29:16 <TrueBrain> so ... it will creep up on the others too sooner or later :)
16:29:36 <milek7> using unicode char would probably require u8"something"
16:30:41 <milek7> I think msvc complains otherwise
16:31:48 <TrueBrain> glx: did that push go okay?
16:32:16 <TrueBrain> lot of weird changes in there given the title :)
16:32:34 <LordAro> "the \u escape accepts four hex digits always."
16:32:59 <LordAro> so "L\u00C3\u00BCbeck" should work
16:33:51 <TrueBrain> I expected a single \u
16:34:09 <LordAro> oh, is it a single character?
16:34:15 <LordAro> i've no idea what it represents :p
16:34:26 <TrueBrain> otherwise it is not UTF-8 :P
16:34:42 <TrueBrain> you told me you knew everything about UTF-8 the other day :P
16:34:49 <TrueBrain> I am slightly disappointed :D <3
16:34:58 <LordAro> i hadn't turned that part of my thinking on :p
16:35:08 <TrueBrain> that is what covid does to us :P
16:35:12 <glx> I can guess \xC3\xB6 is ö
16:35:52 <TrueBrain> at least, %C3%B6 in a browser tells me that :P
16:36:02 <TrueBrain> I like lazy ways of doing shit :)
16:37:22 <glx> and yes the push was okay
16:38:30 <LordAro> oh, i'm still doing unicode wrong
16:42:30 <milek7> there's no utf-16 in that
16:45:18 <milek7> utf16 would be ff fe fc 00
16:55:04 <TrueBrain> Happy to see nobody knows unicode encoding :)
16:55:11 <TrueBrain> Makes me feel less alone
17:10:21 <LordAro> TrueBrain: if you like, you can fix all the multi-byte chars at the same time
17:10:24 <LordAro> there are a lot of those :p
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17:22:35 <TrueBrain> only if you review my emscripten PR? :P :D (I keep trying, sorry :P)
17:27:25 <TrueBrain> guess that means it is cp-1252, but okay
17:27:53 <glx> too bad codepages was invented before utf-8
17:30:25 <TrueBrain> well, we always have wchar to look back from :P
17:37:13 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'll get there eventually :p
17:37:30 <TrueBrain> that's what she said!
17:47:13 <TrueBrain> bah, Python doesn't want to change encodings how I like it to change ..
17:47:20 <TrueBrain> most it now rewrite to \u, but some .. it does not
17:47:27 <TrueBrain> for example \xc3\xad, becomes \xed
17:54:01 <milek7> why? \xed is not valid utf8
17:54:13 <TrueBrain> but \u00ed is, it seems
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17:57:56 <LordAro> \u00ed is valid utf16
17:58:29 <andythenorth> these are all just emoji, right?
17:58:43 <andythenorth> \u00ed definitely looks like a complex irc greeting
17:59:36 <milek7> \u00ed doesn't tell about encoding, it's just codepoint, no?
17:59:47 <TrueBrain> LordAro: and Python ironicly makes it \xed :P (for utf-16)
18:00:02 <LordAro> i can only tell you what the compiled code is giving me
18:00:12 <LordAro> (see godbolt link from earlier)
18:00:37 <milek7> json.dumps(b"\xc3\xad".decode("utf8")).strip('"')
18:03:14 <TrueBrain> already using escape-codes in the input; that is cheating!
18:10:29 <milek7> that surprisingly hard problem :P
18:11:21 <TrueBrain> yup; but I got it :)
18:14:40 <TrueBrain> someone already added UTF-8 in townname.h :D
18:14:53 <TrueBrain> vscode is doing that
18:14:56 <TrueBrain> now that looks weird :D
18:17:51 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, it is my Python script thingy ..lol
18:18:03 <TrueBrain> of some chars it simply says: this is fine!
18:23:47 <TrueBrain> ah, small typo in script
18:26:04 <milek7> now I think of it, wouldn't it also require u8 literal to make any sense?
18:27:05 <TrueBrain> with u8, the string is an unicode string, if I understand C++ and the Microsoft documentation
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18:27:16 <TrueBrain> we want an encoded bytestring
18:27:52 <TrueBrain> and if you check with a compiler, you see that "\xC3\xAF" == "\u00ef"
18:27:56 <TrueBrain> at least, that is what mine is telling me :D
18:28:22 <milek7> yeah, but encoding of "\u00ef" isn't implementation-defined?
18:29:13 <TrueBrain> it is part of C++11
18:29:48 <TrueBrain> what I understand from the specs, is that it converts the \u into what-ever-it-goes-into
18:29:53 <TrueBrain> so with a char*, it is UTF-8
18:29:57 <TrueBrain> with char16_t, it is UTF-16
18:30:10 <milek7> does char* is guaranteed to be UTF-8?
18:30:23 <TrueBrain> I guess copy/pasting is needed:
18:30:24 <TrueBrain> A universal character name in a narrow string literal or a 16-bit string literal may map to more than one character, e.g. \U0001f34c is 4 char code units in UTF-8 (\xF0\x9F\x8D\x8C) and 2 char16_t code units in UTF-16 (\uD83C\uDF4C).
18:30:27 <LordAro> "A universal character name in a narrow string literal or a 16-bit string literal may map to more than one character, e.g. \U0001f34c is 4 char code units in UTF-8 (\xF0\x9F\x8D\x8C) and 2 char16_t code units in UTF-16 (\uD83C\uDF4C). "
18:36:24 <TrueBrain> for any stackoverflow, 12 that say different; that is not really a source :) (and he didn't link any either). So not sure that helps :)
18:39:21 <milek7> what I'm getting at: if I have my system codepage set to Windows-1250, would "\u0105" convert to "\xB9" or "\xC4\x85"?
18:40:54 <TrueBrain> pretty sure the only way we are going to get an answer to that, if you try it ;)
18:41:12 <TrueBrain> as unicode is still a bloody mess
18:41:23 <TrueBrain> I am reading on one side one story, on the next another .. it is annoying :P
18:43:44 <milek7> but you can use u8"\u0105", and then it will work for 100% :P
18:44:01 <TrueBrain> but ironicly, only "utf-8" is a valid value
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18:47:46 <TrueBrain> milek7: that I already did, but it doesn't mean we would like to know how it behaves :)
18:50:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8379: Codechange: use \u to indicate unicode chars in most parts of the code https://git.io/JLLof
18:51:19 <TrueBrain> I did not do currency.cpp, because .... I didn't!
18:51:34 <TrueBrain> there are some wacky ones in there
18:54:07 <TrueBrain> (in other words, fixing now, as I forgot :P)
18:54:27 <LordAro> perhaps only add u8 prefix to the strings that need it?
18:54:37 <LordAro> rather than every single one
18:58:45 <TrueBrain> fuck that shit .. you know how much effort that would take? :D
18:58:57 <TrueBrain> and in misc_gui.cpp I did it to align stuff
18:59:10 <TrueBrain> I can do it with spaces too
18:59:14 <TrueBrain> but .. I doubt that matters :)
18:59:33 <TrueBrain> same for townname.h tbh, now I look at it again :) Without it, it looks very odd
19:00:05 <LordAro> if line.contains("\\x"): output = u8 + output else output
19:00:13 <TrueBrain> it looks really shitty
19:00:16 <TrueBrain> you really want that?
19:00:48 <LordAro> hmm, didn't think about alignment
19:01:17 <TrueBrain> I did not do it for currency.cpp
19:01:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8379: Codechange: use \u to indicate unicode chars in most parts of the code https://git.io/JLLof
19:01:22 <TrueBrain> there it would have been a bit weird :)
19:01:58 <TrueBrain> I even tested things still render as they should .. shocker :D
19:02:09 <LordAro> how about in the tables that don't require it at all?
19:02:18 <LordAro> i know that's harder to script :p
19:02:18 <TrueBrain> even assert_compile to validate the BOM was the same :D
19:03:01 <TrueBrain> I see I forgot u8s, lol
19:03:14 <TrueBrain> I did a replacement in the front of the line
19:03:24 <TrueBrain> as ... it is hard to add u8s without pulling the whole shit through a parser
19:03:25 <LordAro> tbh, it's only the credits string where alignment matters
19:03:53 <LordAro> my opinion - only add u8 where necessary, and add it for all lines for credits
19:03:55 <TrueBrain> out of the 40+ tables, only ~15 won't have u8 :P
19:04:11 <TrueBrain> I really do not see the point in being selective with u8
19:04:19 <TrueBrain> your only argument thus far is: "the patch is so big"
19:04:23 <TrueBrain> like you are going to check line by line :P
19:04:39 <LordAro> it's a lot easier to check line by line if there are only 700 changed lines rather than 3000 :p
19:04:51 <TrueBrain> what are you going to check? If Python did its job? :)
19:05:03 <TrueBrain> it is very likely that if I try to script this, it breaks
19:05:11 <LordAro> well i already found one place it screwed up, and that's with all 3000 lines :p
19:05:19 <LordAro> think how many other places i missed :p
19:05:20 <TrueBrain> even I found that :)
19:05:44 <TrueBrain> (as, who the fuck hides other shit in a file full of one shit?)
19:05:56 <LordAro> pretty please can you do it just for me? i'll review emscripten if you do
19:06:09 <TrueBrain> hahahaha, payback is a shitty bitch
19:06:19 <TrueBrain> I am really against it, but I now have to :(
19:06:50 <LordAro> i'd like to see how the diff looks, at least
19:06:59 <TrueBrain> not much better, but okay, deal is a deal ;)
19:08:38 <TrueBrain> I did it in the worst way possible :D
19:08:41 <TrueBrain> first add all the u8s
19:08:45 <TrueBrain> then make a simply python script that removes it :P
19:08:56 <TrueBrain> as adding it in the right place is more difficult than removing it :D
19:09:32 <TrueBrain> still 2600 line patch
19:09:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8379: Codechange: use \u to indicate unicode chars in most parts of the code https://git.io/JLLof
19:10:10 <TrueBrain> well, you can see for yourself :)
19:10:42 <LordAro> oh, perhaps the diff itself is 2600 lines
19:10:43 <TrueBrain> chunks are being chunks :)
19:10:51 <TrueBrain> yes, I meant literally the patch
19:11:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JLLP3
19:11:14 <TrueBrain> just the alignment :(
19:11:25 <LordAro> mm, i definitely like this more
19:11:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: is it the compiler that matters, or the target machine, for C++17?
19:11:44 <frosch123> is it possible to link a gh issue from another project without that issue linking back?
19:11:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: nope, not as far as I know anyway
19:12:07 <TrueBrain> it is VERY annoying :(
19:12:33 <TrueBrain> frosch123: seems that dude was talking about the target, not the compiler machine
19:12:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: on windows and linux there is no issue. they use c linkage for the improtant stuff
19:12:58 <TrueBrain> lot of dynamic blaaaaa
19:13:04 <TrueBrain> but someone with an OSX should find out how bad it is :D
19:13:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol, that doesn't make a real link (without http) :P
19:14:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8379: Codechange: use \u to indicate unicode chars in most parts of the code https://git.io/JLLof
19:14:10 <TrueBrain> and to please my lord, removed a few more u8s
19:15:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8379: Codechange: use \u to indicate unicode chars in most parts of the code https://git.io/JLLXO
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19:17:16 <TrueBrain> worst patch I made in months :P
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19:23:10 <TrueBrain> btw, sad news, seems links are not removed once created :P
19:23:12 <frosch123> "As std::filesystem support on macOS with the official compiler and Xcode 11.1 is now limited to Catalina/10.15 deployment targets and up," <- you mean that?
19:23:33 <TrueBrain> you can try to delete revisions from the history, that might help
19:23:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, the earlier, that newer clang have better support for it
19:25:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8379: Codechange: use \u to indicate unicode chars in most parts of the code https://git.io/JLLof
19:25:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
19:26:17 <TrueBrain> seems deleting also doesn't help ... this is so shitty
19:26:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the compiler is all fine. i am worried about the "deployment target"
19:26:59 <TrueBrain> but I guess we could use that library for OSX only, if it doesn't work for what we need it
19:27:06 <TrueBrain> and that repo does allow 10.12 too
19:27:13 <TrueBrain> (we now aim for 10.9, which might be a bit silly by now)
19:27:38 <frosch123> maybe osx 10.14 uses ucs2 filenames or some 90s shit. and filesystem expects a modern encoding
19:27:52 <TrueBrain> we should just PoC it tbh
19:28:59 <frosch123> well, if we use filesystem, that will conflict with a lot
19:29:13 <TrueBrain> no, not so much within OpenTTD
19:29:18 <frosch123> and we have multiple bugfixes (like yours from yesterday) that would benefit from it
19:29:19 <TrueBrain> just a small cpp file to use the functions we like
19:29:23 <TrueBrain> and see how that runs on OSX too
19:29:56 <TrueBrain> as possibly they talk about "horrible support" because they use function Z Y and X
19:30:00 <TrueBrain> and we only want A B and C :)
19:30:13 <TrueBrain> I mean .. we open files .. we close files .. we read some .. we write some .. we do some dir listing
19:32:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8282: Fix: Add stable economy type that doesn't ruin scenarios with non-standard industry generation https://git.io/JLLDX
19:32:50 <frosch123> great... and now it doesn't link it...
19:33:33 <andythenorth> isn't it _dp_ that hates all newgrf stuff? :)
19:33:41 <andythenorth> or do I misremember?
19:33:44 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, it does the backlinks. but the forward link is just my comment
19:33:48 <frosch123> so almost invisible
19:33:57 <TrueBrain> forward is always that invisible, yes
19:34:07 <frosch123> andythenorth: dp hates all random
19:34:32 <andythenorth> there's an impedance mismatch between 'economy' and newgrf
19:34:48 <andythenorth> it's kinda why I'm so irrationally sad about FIRS closure code
19:34:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I think both patches should be implemented. One to completely disable economy of industries, the other for GS to control it :)
19:34:53 <andythenorth> which is blocking FIRS 4 release
19:35:00 <TrueBrain> both are on the other side of the spectrum :P
19:35:23 <andythenorth> if anyone would like to fix FIRS, I have a repo :P
19:36:23 <frosch123> you just spoiled you number of private repos
19:36:56 <TrueBrain> what I dislike about github.com, but I also get it, is that I can never see what I can do because I have permissions, and what others see
19:37:09 <TrueBrain> so I found out recently, you cannot set a label on a PR if you are the author but now to a repo
19:37:29 <TrueBrain> I always assumed you could set labels :)
19:37:42 <_dp_> andythenorth, not all, only parts cases more issues than brings benefits
19:37:49 <_dp_> which is a good half of it I guess :p
19:38:28 <TrueBrain> unused variable 'MAX_FONT_SIZE' [-Wunused-const-variable]
19:38:30 <TrueBrain> that is a new warning :)
19:40:47 <TrueBrain> emscripten-only, easy to fix :)
19:40:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
19:41:11 <TrueBrain> no RDTSC on Emscripten ... yeah, no
19:41:14 <TrueBrain> that is never going to happen
19:49:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8282: Fix: Add stable economy type that doesn't ruin scenarios with non-standard industry generation https://git.io/JLLHa
19:49:44 <andythenorth> every industry setting makes newgrf industries harder
19:49:57 <andythenorth> except the ones that mean newgrf industries stop having to care about player preferences
19:51:38 <TrueBrain> everything is on a scale ... there is one side of the spectrum, there is the other, and everything between
19:51:47 <TrueBrain> what ever you do, add, change, remove .. someone will complain
19:51:51 <TrueBrain> someone will celebrate
19:52:06 <TrueBrain> so I never know what to do with comments like yours :)
19:52:19 <TrueBrain> basically, how I read it: if you implement this, "this random person on the forum" will complain :)
19:54:07 <andythenorth> no I don't really care about that
19:54:28 <andythenorth> industry newgrfs have to implement a lot of stuff that OpenTTD should be doing
19:54:43 <andythenorth> but it's hard to implement some of it because OpenTTD does too much
19:54:58 <andythenorth> it's like, pls, decide
19:56:15 <TrueBrain> which hasn't been made easier with GameScript :)
19:58:31 <andythenorth> industry newgrfs need to control the economy, because historically we've delegated gameplay changes to newgrf
19:58:41 <andythenorth> but the economy can still be changed in OpenTTD
19:58:57 <andythenorth> openttd has some settings for industry opening, but not all
19:59:12 <andythenorth> newgrfs control industry closure but have no mechanic to do it well
19:59:31 <andythenorth> newgrfs control industry opening, but have no mechanic to do it well
19:59:40 * andythenorth isn't complaining, just statement of landscape
20:00:04 <andythenorth> meanwhile I have played 150 years of FIRS game, there are no industry problems at all
20:00:30 <andythenorth> but the spec is lolz, and the area is very resistant to any changes
20:00:37 <TrueBrain> 10 NewGRF authors, 11 opinions :)
20:00:59 <andythenorth> no I don't think that's true in this case
20:01:16 <andythenorth> newgrf industry authors (1) broadly agree (2) most industry grfs are FIRS forks now
20:01:24 <andythenorth> nice T-Shirt though :)
20:02:04 <TrueBrain> the problem is, "but have no mechanic to do it well" mostly ends on a spectrum where one group says: A A A A A, the other says: B B B B B
20:02:08 <TrueBrain> and no compromise is found :)
20:02:19 <TrueBrain> at least, that is my experience thus far in OpenTTD when it comes to NewGRF stuff :)
20:02:37 <TrueBrain> takes a lot of talk and energy of a few to find that thing between A and B both are happy...ish with :)
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20:04:47 <TrueBrain> I guess it makes sense if you realise OpenTTD is a very good example of a game full of opinions and choices :)
20:04:58 <TrueBrain> "what does cargo do when it travels for 1 day vs 10 days", etc :)
20:05:37 <andythenorth> TBH for newgrf industry only one author turns up with opinions
20:05:48 <andythenorth> pikka kind quit newgrf industry and towns over GS
20:05:52 <TrueBrain> stop talking about yourself in 3rd person :P
20:05:53 <andythenorth> and that just leaves me
20:06:18 <TrueBrain> yeah, you would think ... wait till we suggest a change to the specs :P
20:06:26 <TrueBrain> how many people show their face with an opinion in minutes?
20:06:44 <TrueBrain> in this channel alone, more than 1 will make sure his voice is heard :)
20:06:52 <TrueBrain> (not saying it is a bad thing btw)
20:08:21 <TrueBrain> I like the Factorio approach .. make everything scriptable, move the game itself to scripts too :)
20:08:43 <TrueBrain> then modders can do what-ever-the-fuck-they-want, within the limits of the game mechanics them self :)
20:10:01 <andythenorth> it's not too late
20:10:16 <andythenorth> how much core game logic is there really?
20:10:24 <TrueBrain> I once ripped AI out
20:10:32 <andythenorth> yeah but for gameplay entities?
20:10:34 <TrueBrain> that was a lot more shit than I could imagine
20:10:39 <andythenorth> industry_cmd.cpp is not very big
20:10:42 <TrueBrain> there are so many bits and quirks everywhere
20:10:53 <TrueBrain> the illusion that OpenTTD has tasks separate you have to let go :)
20:10:58 <TrueBrain> the name is misleading as fuck :P
20:11:01 <andythenorth> all of the vehicle routing and payments and crap are very interleaved
20:11:08 <andythenorth> but industry is pretty self contained
20:11:20 <TrueBrain> it is more contained than vehicles, yes
20:11:28 <andythenorth> but then cargo moves to stations blah blah
20:11:53 <TrueBrain> if you would like to do that, you have to make it "your mission", and don't halve-bake it
20:11:56 <glx> funny answer in SO linked page "If you don't want to change compiler to use std::filesystem (because it's a pain), another option is to use the Boost Filesystem library. Boost Filesystem was the basis for std::filesystem, so for most uses it's completely compatible with std::filesystem."
20:11:57 <TrueBrain> otherwise you end up with ... OpenTTD :)
20:12:09 <glx> like replace hell with hell
20:12:13 <TrueBrain> glx: hahaha, yes :D
20:12:47 <TrueBrain> anyway, carving out industries is not the problem ... empowering something else to take over is
20:12:57 <TrueBrain> if you check the code for smooth industries ... holy crap :P
20:13:53 <TrueBrain> and honestly, looking back .. GameScript was an easy addon after NoAI, but it would have been better added in NewGRF .. that was just completely impossible back then, don't get me wrong
20:14:05 <TrueBrain> but it didn't help making the line of who is in charge of what more clear :D
20:14:18 <TrueBrain> but, complaining is easy, solving it is harder :)
20:15:35 <TrueBrain> and maybe more important: we are not here to solve world problems .. but to have fun and have livestreams while doing it :P
20:16:30 <TrueBrain> says no Cyberpunk 2077 employee ever :P
20:17:35 <andythenorth> anyway is dp's PR merged yet?
20:17:57 <TrueBrain> I asked 2 questions I would like an answer to, so no :)
20:18:09 <TrueBrain> "stable" in my language means something else :)
20:18:22 <TrueBrain> no clue how the nuance in English is :)
20:18:28 <_dp_> none of which I can answer :(
20:18:32 <andythenorth> "I am a stable genius"
20:18:59 <TrueBrain> so to me it sounds like we are looking for another word to describe "no mutations"
20:19:03 <andythenorth> "stable, where horses live"
20:19:08 <_dp_> TrueBrain, though I'm pretty sure 2 can be ignored, you just have a keywordophobia :p
20:19:29 <TrueBrain> not disagreeing there dp :)
20:19:35 <TrueBrain> stupid client eating _ :P
20:20:00 <TrueBrain> ET_NONE, best describes what the patch does, I think?
20:20:04 <andythenorth> when is WASM preview + drinking + stream?
20:20:11 <andythenorth> I can't be arsed to pull that one and compile it
20:20:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro promised me a review, so any day now :)
20:20:42 <frosch123> i need a nml reviewer. where do you buy those?
20:20:59 <TrueBrain> FLHerne <- found him
20:21:09 <TrueBrain> her? I always assume him .. that is so bad ..
20:22:08 <FLHerne> frosch123: What did you break?
20:22:14 <frosch123> pff, english is about the only language that succeeded with gender neutral forms, and you still fail? :p
20:22:42 <frosch123> all the included regression tests do not compile wihtout the fixes
20:23:02 <FLHerne> Well that sounds good
20:23:32 <frosch123> i also read the generated grf/nfo. but really it's about "nml does not error/exit" :p
20:23:45 <andythenorth> our XY chromosome diversity is probably very low here :(
20:23:50 <andythenorth> I don't have evidence, just assumptions
20:24:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: probably less than 2 on average
20:25:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so help us out here .. "stable economy" to me doesn't sound: it doesn't change at all .. what is a better word?
20:25:17 <TrueBrain> no economy, I guess
20:25:28 <frosch123> i thought we already have a map generator setting for that
20:25:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: can't promise it'll be favourable :p
20:25:47 <frosch123> "only funding" or industry-densitiy or so
20:25:52 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'll just put dinner on, then take a look
20:26:07 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I wouldn't expect it is :) Cheers, and enjoy your dinner :)
20:26:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: "frozen economy"
20:27:05 <frosch123> "stable economy" is already used for that weird disaster setting
20:27:06 <TrueBrain> frozen .. that is more what the patch does
20:27:17 <TrueBrain> what about you _ dp_ ?
20:27:24 <TrueBrain> (working around my client issues there :P)
20:27:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #8282: Fix: Add stable economy type that doesn't ruin scenarios with non-standard industry generation https://git.io/JLLAy
20:28:03 <TrueBrain> 2 minor things, otherwise LGTM
20:28:17 <andythenorth> Frozen, static, unchanging
20:28:26 <TrueBrain> and yes, these things are important, as we have translators that need to grasp the concept too :)
20:28:31 <_dp_> stop suggestion more options!!! :p
20:28:49 <TrueBrain> but frozen has a nice ring to it :)
20:28:49 <_dp_> we'll never chose now :p
20:28:51 <LordAro> ♫ let it go, let it go ♫
20:29:14 <andythenorth> Consistent, unchanging
20:29:21 <andythenorth> thesaurus as a service :|
20:29:33 <TrueBrain> I already wrote Frozen in the PR, so what can you do :)
20:30:37 <TrueBrain> it describes it perfectly, in my opinion :) See, we should do that livestreaming stuff!
20:31:02 <TrueBrain> owh, and the commit message should be less passive aggressive ..
20:31:36 <TrueBrain> but we can always squash that out :P
20:33:14 <andythenorth> it's not passive aggressive, it's aggressive :)
20:33:18 <andythenorth> I shall help with this
20:33:38 <TrueBrain> I think the aggression is hidden, but tomato tomato :)
20:33:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8282: Fix: Add stable economy type that doesn't ruin scenarios with non-standard industry generation https://git.io/JLLxM
20:34:11 <TrueBrain> that is always wrong :)
20:34:31 <TrueBrain> as everything is a change
20:34:37 <TrueBrain> so that word is pretty useless to add :)
20:34:42 <andythenorth> bad habits in newgrfs
20:34:51 <andythenorth> all my commit prefixes are 'Change:' these days :D
20:35:14 <frosch123> andythenorth: you should use "Commit:". that would be very andy-ish
20:35:34 <TrueBrain> no, it is not "change" indeed :) andythenorth is weird :P
20:36:02 <TrueBrain> using semantic commit messages made my life easier ..
20:36:11 <TrueBrain> it either adds something, it fixes something, or it removes something, basically
20:36:35 <_dp_> my favourite is fix: nowadays
20:36:49 <_dp_> because features are banned from minor releases
20:36:55 <TrueBrain> this clearly is an Add
20:36:57 <_dp_> not that it seems to matter but I still hope :p
20:37:48 <TrueBrain> well, there is not going to be a 1.10.4, so this will land in the next minor :P
20:37:52 <TrueBrain> (but you meant patch release, I guess)
20:38:11 <TrueBrain> if OpenTTD would wait for new features for a major, we would be a while :D
20:38:34 <TrueBrain> Add: new economy "frozen" that stop production changes and industry closures
20:38:43 <TrueBrain> I like these kind of commit messages myself more :)
20:39:10 <TrueBrain> and yes, I just copied your tooltip :P
20:39:17 <_dp_> yeah, patch, I just subconsciously ignore major as utterly pointless :p
20:39:38 <TrueBrain> well, next release should be 20.1, tbh
20:39:46 <TrueBrain> if we want to be part of the cool kids
20:40:08 <TrueBrain> part of, lolz, what-ever
20:41:05 <TrueBrain> so who can set up such livestream? :P
20:43:39 <TrueBrain> it is semver, the reason we have 20.1 etc
20:43:51 <TrueBrain> as any API change should change major
20:44:09 <TrueBrain> (any non-backwards-compatible change)
20:44:14 <TrueBrain> so OpenTTD would for ever be at 1 :P
20:45:38 <frosch123> why 20? that's neither the year, nor dropping the "1."
20:46:52 <TrueBrain> the year of branching!
20:47:00 <TrueBrain> it is to confuse the fuck out of people
20:47:56 <andythenorth> I do like that OpenTTD has moved on from 1
20:48:00 <TrueBrain> owh, btw, frosch123 , seems with 1.10.3 the version reported to BaNaNaS is more like 1.10.0 .. how does that work, do you remember?
20:48:52 <TrueBrain> _openttd_newgrf_version is sent
20:48:58 <TrueBrain> and I can never remember how that variable works :P
20:49:12 <TrueBrain> 1 << 28 | 11 << 24 | 0 << 20 | 0 << 19 | 28004;
20:49:15 <TrueBrain> guess that means 1.11.0 ?
20:50:23 <frosch123> yeah, that was incremented manually in svn age
20:50:36 <frosch123> i guess we forgot that :)
20:50:37 <TrueBrain> ah, okay, so we are still on 1.10.0 for 1.10 series
20:50:43 <TrueBrain> yeah, we forgot 3 times, by the looks :P
20:50:51 <_dp_> "This setting has usually no effect, if industry types are provided by a NewGRF."
20:50:57 <_dp_> shouldn't it be "This setting usually has no effect if industry types are provided by a NewGRF."?
20:51:20 <TrueBrain> that was my question, yes :)
20:51:48 <glx> const uint32 _openttd_newgrf_version = 1 << 28 | 11 << 24 | 0 << 20 | ${REV_ISSTABLETAG} << 19 | 28004;
20:52:07 <TrueBrain> don't we have the major/minor/patch? Can't we automate this? :D
20:53:09 <_dp_> TrueBrain, oh, lol, didn't notice
20:53:21 <milek7> char *p = this->text + (strncmp(u8"\ufeff", this->text, 3) == 0 ? 3 : 0);
20:53:23 <milek7> this is correct, but.. odd
20:53:27 <_dp_> it's kind of a questionable statement tbh
20:53:36 <milek7> #define WTF_BOM u8"\ufeff"
20:53:36 <milek7> char *p = this->text + (strncmp(WTF_BOM, this->text, sizeof(WTF_BOM) - 1) == 0 ? (sizeof(WTF_BOM) - 1) : 0);
20:53:42 <TrueBrain> _dp_: maybe just don't mention it?
20:53:54 <TrueBrain> does sizeof work on a string? Dunno :P
20:54:17 <andythenorth> _dp_ where's the line that prevents opening?
20:54:23 * andythenorth must be overlooking it
20:54:25 <_dp_> TrueBrain, well, it's worth mentioning smth newgrf, just dunno how to say it exactly
20:54:40 <TrueBrain> there are many places where we should mention that NewGRF overwrites the setting
20:54:45 <TrueBrain> not sure if this place is special enough :)
20:54:51 <TrueBrain> I also don't mind having it btw
20:54:56 <TrueBrain> just also don't know how to word it :P
20:55:15 <TrueBrain> I am fine with what you write, minus the comma :P Dunno why .. something in me tells me it is wrong shrug
20:55:32 <frosch123> [21:54] <TrueBrain> there are many places where we should mention that NewGRF overwrites the setting <- no, only industries/econonmies
20:55:43 <andythenorth> _dp_ it does prevent opening, right?
20:56:08 <_dp_> andythenorth, huh? what opening?
20:56:16 <TrueBrain> isn't that another setting andythenorth ?
20:56:20 <glx> btw I think only major and minor are important for newgrf, we rarely add newgrf features in patch releases
20:56:35 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah .. and I guess we should put that on BaNaNaS
20:56:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain there's a setting to 'funding only' but otherwise delegated to newgrf
20:56:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: there is only a small time in ottd history, when the meta was "we do not want add-ons, certainly no newgrf. we want a 3d game that combines simcity and counter strike"
20:57:12 <_dp_> "This setting may have no effect if industry types are provided by a NewGRF."
20:57:13 <andythenorth> _dp_ what do I miss, it's frozen, no?
20:57:19 <andythenorth> so we don't want new industries?
20:57:23 <TrueBrain> _dp_: yup, sounds good!
20:57:36 <TrueBrain> frosch123: hmm ... counterstrike .....
20:57:40 <TrueBrain> now that was a good time :)
20:57:56 <andythenorth> I was hoping for command and conquer meets Duke Nukem Forever
20:58:01 <_dp_> andythenorth, it freezes production, there is a separate setting for new industries
20:58:07 <TrueBrain> it is funny to me, I really always ignored NewGRF, and everything about it :P
20:58:09 <andythenorth> _dp_ is that in another patch?
20:58:21 <_dp_> andythenorth, it's already in the game :p
20:58:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JIh3F
20:58:37 <andythenorth> is there a setting for that?
20:59:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JLtvK
20:59:56 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, difficulty.industry_density
20:59:57 <TrueBrain> Industry density -> Funding only
21:00:01 <TrueBrain> seems there is andythenorth :)
21:00:13 <andythenorth> ok so I can have a frozen economy with no industries?
21:00:19 <andythenorth> or this is only set for SE?
21:00:29 <_dp_> though it probably should be split in 2 - one for mapgen and other for ingame
21:00:31 <TrueBrain> if you shoot yourself in the foot .. it tends to hurt
21:01:13 <andythenorth> ok so it needs a better name
21:01:22 <andythenorth> like 'fill the map with industries' economy? :D
21:01:33 <TrueBrain> what turn did you take now?
21:02:10 <TrueBrain> hmm, this PR combined with the GS PR can be pretty fun, now I think about it :D
21:02:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JIh3F
21:02:22 <andythenorth> OpenTTD continues building industries during game
21:03:00 <andythenorth> "Industries never close" would be the most accurate
21:03:42 <TrueBrain> you do understand you took a turn somewhere, that we don't understand, and are now trying to solve a fictional problem, right? :D
21:04:41 <andythenorth> Yes, but I don't know how to put it more clearly
21:04:55 <TrueBrain> well, you forgot to explain where you took a turn, and where you ended up :)
21:05:30 <_dp_> well, technically it makes sense to split "economy type" in 4 settings: production changes, closures, station rating and smth else I forgot
21:05:47 <_dp_> but that's 3 more settings :p
21:05:53 <andythenorth> then later add newgrf for those :P
21:06:02 <andythenorth> I just want to name the setting accurately
21:06:10 <andythenorth> "Frozen" isn't true
21:06:23 <andythenorth> The accurate name is "Prevent industry closure"?
21:07:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] piiskop opened issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:07:24 <TrueBrain> oeh, I like tickets that begin with "Impossible"
21:07:53 <andythenorth> "Prevent industry production changes and closures"?
21:07:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7
21:09:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:09:15 <TrueBrain> what a ticket, lol ..
21:09:28 <andythenorth> am I the only one smoking crack? :D
21:09:38 <andythenorth> I hope it was good crack, because I've forgotten if I smoked any
21:10:01 <andythenorth> OpenTTD will just keep building industries, is the goal of the PR to prevent that or not?
21:10:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what you are debating, I think, as it is still not clear to me, if a frozen economy should still be able to start industries. With other words, if it should influence industry openings setting (industry density setting)
21:10:27 <FLHerne> Hey, at least you're not also trapped in Las Vegas with an angry naked Chinese guy shouting at you
21:10:35 <andythenorth> FLHerne how do you know?
21:10:37 <FLHerne> (The Hangover was on the other night :p)
21:10:37 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: pictures or it didn't happen :)
21:10:54 <FLHerne> Hasn't happened to me yet :p
21:11:01 <TrueBrain> I love the "yet" part :)
21:11:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: anyway, if that is what you mean, it is better to not have settings overlap, as that would be frustrating as ...
21:12:05 <andythenorth> I think it just fragments a bad UI further but eh
21:12:13 <andythenorth> I don't use any of these settings, I have a newgrf
21:12:17 <TrueBrain> but that was mentioned and answered in the ticket btw :)
21:12:22 <andythenorth> I just hate interfaces that lie to the use
21:12:46 <TrueBrain> I read your remark and filed it in my cabinet :)
21:12:57 <TrueBrain> (WE NEED THAT LIVE STREAM!)
21:14:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: do we wait with c++17 till branch, or do we say: fuck it?
21:14:25 <andythenorth> _dp_ why not just split it up?
21:15:01 <andythenorth> explicit settings
21:15:07 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Well, in March I did have an extremely misunderstood conversation that resulted in the other guy thinking I wanted to have gay sex with him, so I'm not ruling it out
21:15:16 <andythenorth> instead of weird abstracted, 'guess what it does' settings
21:15:18 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: HAHAHAHAHAA :D
21:16:16 <_dp_> I'd honestly prefer it split up, I just doubt that a patch that adds 3 more settings out of nowhere even has a chance :p
21:16:30 <FLHerne> _dp_: I think it's really confusing to have a 'stable'/'frozen' setting that still has randomly-spawning industries
21:16:32 <andythenorth> if only we could live stream :P
21:16:38 <FLHerne> And not useful from a gameplay perspectiv
21:16:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] piiskop commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:16:53 <TrueBrain> the "frozen" will only be used by a niche group anyway
21:17:11 <FLHerne> The people making and playing scenarios with all industries don't want new ones appearing
21:17:28 <FLHerne> It breaks the careful design just as much as closure or production changes
21:17:37 <andythenorth> Well they are supposed to choose 'funding only'
21:17:47 <andythenorth> So their needs are met, for that niche
21:17:51 <_dp_> 'funding only' is useless without 'frozen'
21:17:55 <andythenorth> if they find both settings, in 2 different placs
21:18:19 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's long till branch, the risk is very low. i would switch now, if we get osx to work
21:18:20 <FLHerne> _dp_: And 'frozen' is useless without 'funding only', so they should be combined :p
21:18:25 <andythenorth> Whereas the players who start a game, and choose 'frozen', expecting no new industries, they get lolz
21:18:34 <andythenorth> sucks to be them, make better choices :)
21:19:00 <FLHerne> _dp_: But that's not really true, you can fund more industries if they close
21:19:47 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i'll try the operator* route
21:20:25 <_dp_> FLHerne, they're just two cases that only work together, any other combination of those settings kinda makes sense
21:20:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:21:35 <_dp_> besides, it's not completely meaningless to have more industries spawning as game goes even if none close
21:21:43 <_dp_> though I guess it won't spawn much anyway
21:21:56 <TrueBrain> basically, OpenTTD currently has 2 mechanics: new industries, and economy
21:22:07 <TrueBrain> we always had 2 settings controlling them
21:22:11 <TrueBrain> one of them is now extended
21:22:17 <TrueBrain> is it perfect? Fuck no
21:22:21 <TrueBrain> is it an improvement? yes
21:22:25 <TrueBrain> does it hurt anyone? nope
21:22:33 <TrueBrain> lets not make this all more complicated than it has to be
21:22:47 <TrueBrain> it is the fucking reason we are not getting contributions in .. as it always end up with these discussions
21:23:00 <andythenorth> yes but blindly adding confusing settings isn't innovation
21:23:02 <TrueBrain> going down ALL THE WAY to "why are we here" and "why are you who you are"
21:23:17 <andythenorth> this isn't about matters of opinion, it's about predictable failure demand
21:23:28 <andythenorth> it's not 'my way' or whatever
21:23:32 <TrueBrain> don't mistake your perception for fact
21:23:38 <andythenorth> adding a setting that says it does a thing, and it doesn't
21:23:49 <andythenorth> like, why do that to users?
21:23:50 <TrueBrain> no, your problem is that you define "economy" differently
21:24:02 <TrueBrain> but, I am in no mood for this debate, as it is exactly why OpenTTD is where it is
21:24:14 <TrueBrain> _dp_ gets a simple choice: either he fixes the minor stuff in the PR and I merge it
21:24:15 <andythenorth> ok well fortunately you have all provided me with a way to ignore this in grf
21:24:18 <andythenorth> so just merge it
21:24:19 <TrueBrain> or he adds 2 or 3 settings to make it pretty
21:24:23 <TrueBrain> either way, fine by me
21:24:29 <andythenorth> then watch the reddit and discord confusion
21:24:32 <TrueBrain> but stop this useless arguing for every fucking change we are making, k, tnx :)
21:24:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] piiskop commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:25:04 <andythenorth> merge it, empiricism beats arguing
21:25:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JIh3F
21:25:25 <andythenorth> everything I think is wrong with it can be fixed in another PR if I'm right
21:25:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:25:32 <andythenorth> if I'm wrong, happy days
21:25:36 <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth bye now
21:25:36 *** andythenorth was kicked by DorpsGek (bye now)
21:25:52 <TrueBrain> seriously, we have to stop this way of having "discussions"
21:25:59 <TrueBrain> this would do poorly on livestreams
21:25:59 <FLHerne> I think it's kind of wrong too
21:26:07 <TrueBrain> that is fine; but talk to eachother
21:26:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:26:31 <andythenorth> so we deal with debate by bullying again?
21:26:41 <FLHerne> 'stable' really does not make me expect new industries to open
21:26:42 <andythenorth> "I have the power just remember that"
21:26:43 <TrueBrain> @kban 60 andythenorth take a chillpill please
21:26:43 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: 60 is not in #openttd.
21:26:51 <TrueBrain> I cannot even use my own bot :D
21:26:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8282: Fix: Add stable economy type that doesn't ruin scenarios with non-standard industry generation https://git.io/JJE2k
21:27:51 <FLHerne> I mean, the stuff that's been hanging around for months, and everyone who cares has already debated it to death, sure
21:27:58 <FLHerne> Just pick one option or the other
21:28:22 <FLHerne> Well, this is months, but no-one's mentioned it in months :p
21:28:30 <FLHerne> I guess 'years' is probably more our timescale
21:29:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] piiskop commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:29:47 <FLHerne> I guess a productive comment would be what else to call it, if the existing behaviour is ok
21:30:21 <TrueBrain> anyone any clue to help piiskop remotely? As I don't :(
21:31:13 <_dp_> isn't piiskop just trying to play on a server with different version?
21:31:16 <FLHerne> 'frozen' is worse than 'stable' IMO...
21:31:33 <TrueBrain> but he mainly cannot open his own savegames
21:31:36 <TrueBrain> seems due to permissions
21:31:39 <milek7> sudo chmod 0777 -R ~/.openttd
21:31:42 <TrueBrain> but I don't know the questions to ask
21:31:47 <TrueBrain> milek7: sounds like a horrible suggestion
21:32:36 <milek7> or maybe not, if snap does some sandbox
21:32:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no idea, but you are right that it's a very basic issue of ottd not being able to read the 4 first bytes
21:32:53 <frosch123> so, not at all related to versions or patchpacks
21:34:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: also, why do they sudo openttd :/
21:35:12 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I ... do not know
21:35:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtLE
21:35:47 <frosch123> is the commit message passive-agressive enough?
21:38:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8362: Apply some C++ love to string handling in file and config paths. https://git.io/JIW6A
21:39:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] LordAro commented on pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP https://git.io/JLttL
21:40:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7
21:40:55 <TrueBrain> <FLHerne> I guess a productive comment would be what else to call it, if the existing behaviour is ok <- sorry, got distracted. Yes, yes it is. And we had that a few hours ago :P If you have better suggestions, please let us know :)
21:41:42 <FLHerne> Yeah, I was going to think of one
21:41:48 <FLHerne> Then I couldn't think of one :p
21:41:54 <TrueBrain> we had that issue a few hours ago too :D
21:42:01 <TrueBrain> frozen was closest to what it does and mean
21:42:11 <TrueBrain> it is just not mutual exclusive with industry density
21:42:21 <FLHerne> It is if you don't consider openings as part of "the economy"
21:42:23 <TrueBrain> in general, things don't get worse :)
21:42:52 <FLHerne> Which, like so many bad TTD design decisions, is one of those things that makes sense to experienced devs and no-one else
21:43:11 <TrueBrain> so we are debating life again :D
21:43:21 <TrueBrain> I get it, don't worry, but we are all making this circle :)
21:43:35 * andythenorth now has Lion King music in his head
21:43:38 <andythenorth> thanks a fucking log
21:43:42 <FLHerne> I mean, ask anyone whether industry openings are part of the economy
21:44:02 <TrueBrain> owh, it is very weird
21:44:05 <TrueBrain> I think nobody argues there
21:44:05 <FLHerne> Ask any OTTD player whether industry openings are part of the in-game economy
21:44:09 <TrueBrain> but that doesn't change with the patch :)
21:44:11 <TrueBrain> just highlights it :P
21:44:32 <milek7> there's any economy in OTTD? :P
21:44:44 <FLHerne> It just makes no sense except in the context of implementation details
21:44:57 <TrueBrain> but again, that was already true :)
21:45:01 <nielsm> industries opening and closing during the game, and not being predictable, is what sets TT apart from Transport Fever
21:45:02 <andythenorth> if we ship it and it turns out to be wrong or unfinished, we could fix it, right?
21:45:23 <nielsm> not being entirely predictable at least
21:45:38 <TrueBrain> nielsm: it is not weird people don't like that :D
21:45:38 <andythenorth> like for savegames, it doesn't affect the map, just the gameplay
21:45:49 <TrueBrain> it only effects new maps, yup
21:45:56 <andythenorth> so if we have to change it, back it out, split it
21:46:01 <andythenorth> that option remains open
21:46:04 <TrueBrain> or rework the economy
21:46:10 <TrueBrain> maybe that brings back Celestar :)
21:46:26 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 48 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 50 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Celestar> lo
21:46:36 <frosch123> FLHerne: it makes little sense to argue about the word meaning. people complain about production changes and closures. noone cares about openings. if you disable the news, noone even notices them
21:47:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: michi reworked it, and added infra maintainance. not sure whether anyone plays with it, i think economy balancing is more for talking about than playing with
21:48:03 <TrueBrain> you can graduate on it :P
21:50:53 <TrueBrain> anyway, also publicly: sorry andythenorth , the kick was unneeded
21:51:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8282: Add: new economy "frozen" that stops production changes and industry closures https://git.io/JLtmC
21:52:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8376: Codechange: Switch to C++17 on all platforms. https://git.io/JLtmo
21:52:36 <andythenorth> so does this mean I can resume work on FIRS 4?
21:53:01 <andythenorth> no longer need closure protection
21:53:08 <andythenorth> so no longer need to implement closure support
21:54:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
21:54:22 <TrueBrain> haha, fuck, euh, no, we are going to deny that PR now
21:54:26 <TrueBrain> this is NOT what we agree'd on :P :P
21:54:35 <andythenorth> pls release next major version now, thx bai
21:54:42 <andythenorth> I mean, why not?
21:54:46 <andythenorth> releases are cheap?
21:54:53 <andythenorth> changelog is the worst part?
21:55:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtYI
21:55:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtYO
21:55:43 <andythenorth> smaller changelogs are less work :P
21:56:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtY8
21:57:31 <TrueBrain> milek7: lolz .. tnx for testing that :D That is cool
21:57:34 <TrueBrain> and that is really fucked up
21:58:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: there are TABS between # and text?
21:59:08 <TrueBrain> a tar? With a trojan?
21:59:42 <TrueBrain> someone would have to download and take a peek inside
21:59:51 <andythenorth> was in discord main openttd channel
22:00:07 <andythenorth> be a great way to get me to download it eh?
22:01:13 <TrueBrain> you are our security expert :D
22:02:36 <andythenorth> we are in big trouble
22:02:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtOX
22:06:05 <milek7> it sort of makes sense
22:06:09 <milek7> because if you want to use these strings in winapi narrow strings functions, like MessageBoxA, it expects local encoding, so that would yield correct results
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22:06:38 <glx> andythenorth: probably false positive, but I may check
22:07:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLt3G
22:07:23 <milek7> and you can change systemwide narrowstring encoding to utf8 (but that breaks legacy apps, obviously)
22:08:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] piiskop commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
22:08:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] piiskop closed issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
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22:08:54 <frosch123> milek7: gcc has a command line option for that
22:09:32 <andythenorth> happy customer service outcome ^^
22:09:36 <nielsm> the actual reason it can break is mainly that utf8 can encode characters with up to 4 bytes, and existing MBCS encodings let you assume that no string would grow to more bytes than the UCS-2 string
22:10:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8380: Impossible to play a saved game or scenario from a previous versiomn https://git.io/JLtJu
22:10:11 <nielsm> as far as I've understood at least
22:10:23 <TrueBrain> it is like the day I learnt about UCS2 and Python ... things you never get back from :(
22:10:33 <andythenorth> pls, this is like my day today
22:10:42 <andythenorth> unicode in python 2 :(
22:10:47 <TrueBrain> (Linux distros use UCS4 for Python, but if you compile yourself it is UCS2, and they are NOT COMPATIBLE)
22:10:48 * andythenorth still traumatised
22:10:56 <frosch123> defaults to utf-8 for gcc
22:11:03 <frosch123> i guess msvc does something else
22:11:04 <TrueBrain> sorry andythenorth :(
22:11:29 <andythenorth> I just go hang out in discord and talk about trains
22:11:37 <andythenorth> if we're going to have triggering content
22:11:45 <TrueBrain> I read you are welcomed there :D
22:12:47 <glx> I can confirm detection by windows defender
22:13:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtsw
22:14:31 <LordAro> probably just a specific byte sequence that it's picking up
22:15:22 <glx> yes I autorised it, so I could open to see the content, it's just a grf and a txt
22:15:50 <TrueBrain> the grf is really a valid grf? (it has to be, otherwise it wouldn't have gone through BaNaNaS)
22:18:47 * andythenorth looking for the development section of wiki
22:20:10 <andythenorth> if only there was a way to edit a wiki
22:20:21 <frosch123> but yes, most stuff went into archive, like how to add a gui element to ottd 0.4
22:20:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JLtGA
22:21:00 <andythenorth> I wanted to delete most of it
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22:21:44 <glx> <TrueBrain> the grf is really a valid grf? (it has to be, otherwise it wouldn't have gone through BaNaNaS) <-- yes it is, openttd can see it :)
22:21:57 <andythenorth> openttd can download things
22:22:21 <glx> the alert is not about openttd, but the tar itself ;)
22:22:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
22:22:45 <andythenorth> I know, I'm just being stupid :)
22:22:48 <glx> definitely false positive
22:22:49 <andythenorth> it has been a long year
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22:23:01 <andythenorth> glx you on the discord?
22:23:12 <TrueBrain> I forwarded the message on Discord :)
22:24:06 <TrueBrain> LordAro: cheers for review; think I did all you mentioned :D
22:25:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain commented on pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP https://git.io/JLtZo
22:26:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP https://git.io/JIzaz
22:31:20 <andythenorth> I have 2 neighbours with dogs
22:31:25 <andythenorth> and the dogs are barking at each other
22:31:31 * andythenorth plays openttd, sleep is derailed
22:35:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8282: Add: new economy "frozen" that stops production changes and industry closures https://git.io/JJE2k
22:35:23 <TrueBrain> owh, I wanted to test it before merge .. knew I forgot something
22:35:29 <TrueBrain> I have faith in _dp _ :)
22:36:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: i had that once too, but only one dog was barking and the other one did not care. the best part was the next day: i never heard a hoarse dog before
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22:37:38 <_dp_> well, if it breaks smth I'll fix it later xD
22:40:01 <TrueBrain> glx: that PR is really difficult to review (grfcodec) .. can I just blindly click approve?
22:40:38 <glx> it's easy to read commit by commit ;)
22:40:48 <TrueBrain> ... like there is only 1? :D
22:41:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #39: Add: support client connections over WebSocket / HTTP https://git.io/JIzaz
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22:44:12 <TrueBrain> glx: it has a high level of: I don't care, that PR ... if it works, lets ship it :P
22:44:26 <TrueBrain> do you want to automate it via GHA?
22:44:45 <TrueBrain> you applied a-b-c nicely in places I checked ..
22:46:09 <glx> GHA can wait, but would probably be a good addition (to at least check it builds)
22:46:16 <TrueBrain> I cannot even find a place to bitch about anything
22:46:49 <glx> main issue is it needs boost ;)
22:46:59 <TrueBrain> version.h.in is weird
22:47:13 <TrueBrain> WHY DOES IT NEED BOOST?! OMG!
22:47:49 <TrueBrain> compiles with a lot of warnings
22:49:18 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I really really really like your Trees GUI improvements
22:49:46 <michi_cc> Hmm, main victim of C++17 would be oldie Linux distros, right? As it doesn't matter for MSVC, I should just hit merge I guess?
22:50:17 <TrueBrain> I haven't checked how many .deb targets are going to fail
22:50:40 <TrueBrain> but LordAro was also in favour of it, I believe? So yeah ... lets all be guilty of merging it :D
22:50:53 <TrueBrain> worst we have to change the release workflow, dropping some targets :P
22:51:03 <TrueBrain> OMG WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THE WORLD IS BURNING
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22:51:28 <TrueBrain> awh, I scared away nielsm :(
22:51:53 <Xaroth> must be the shouting :P
22:52:51 <TrueBrain> he cannot run away from my ITS SO CUTE comment ffs
22:53:54 <michi_cc> I didn't do anything, I was compiling C++17 yesterday and I'm compiling C++17 tomorrow :D
22:54:30 <michi_cc> Because I sneaked that in the test the codepath using the real <optional
22:54:30 <TrueBrain> let me make sure emscripten works with C++17 too :P (it should)
22:54:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
22:54:36 <glx> michi_cc: yeah no change for me neither ;)
22:54:43 <michi_cc> > instead of the 3rdparty one :)
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23:02:20 <TrueBrain> poeh, lot of rebasing of existing PRs to do
23:02:33 <TrueBrain> happy we can just push back in people's branch, but I have to be sure there is nothing they should be doing after :P
23:02:40 <TrueBrain> as I am pretty sure that they won't know how :D
23:04:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:06:50 * andythenorth makes a commit with "Change:"
23:07:04 <andythenorth> #4997 in a series
23:07:22 <glx> quickly checked mingw with current master, no new warnings ;)
23:07:26 <andythenorth> but really they mostly are changes, newgrf projects don't have this stability need
23:07:32 <andythenorth> try it, test it, change it
23:07:41 <TrueBrain> everything is a change :P
23:07:45 <andythenorth> try it, perfect it, get bored, change it
23:07:55 <andythenorth> I need more exciting prefixes!
23:07:59 <TrueBrain> that number ... means nothing to me :D
23:08:12 <andythenorth> "Got bored: stuff"
23:08:23 <andythenorth> "Made poor choices: stuff"
23:08:34 <andythenorth> "Seemed like a good idea at the time: stuff"
23:09:59 <TrueBrain> when working, my patches are all called "F <something>"
23:10:02 <TrueBrain> mostly as they fix something
23:10:07 <TrueBrain> more often they are just F
23:10:11 <TrueBrain> an endless stream of Fs
23:10:25 <andythenorth> what shall I call my new train?
23:11:11 <glx> usually my commits are just "fixup"
23:11:43 <andythenorth> does Mäuschen translate, or is it just a tank name?
23:11:47 <glx> then I rebase to fix the right commit
23:11:48 <andythenorth> pls german help thanks
23:12:14 <andythenorth> my best commits are all "Change: WIP"
23:12:23 <andythenorth> usually before bed, in case my SSD dies
23:12:40 <TrueBrain> glx: I got lazy .. just "f" :P
23:17:54 <TrueBrain> that patch is more awesome than I expected :)
23:21:28 <TrueBrain> _dp _: yup, it is not perfect
23:21:35 <TrueBrain> but km/h has the same issue, I guess :)
23:21:49 <TrueBrain> does that mean OpenTTD tiles are just very odd?
23:22:08 <_dp_> not quite, noone knows what km/h is supposed to mean anyway :p
23:22:19 <TrueBrain> we will get questions about this, for sure
23:22:22 <TrueBrain> people doing the exact math
23:22:25 <TrueBrain> and complaining it is a pixel faster :P
23:22:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8381: Codechange: Make use of the improved C++17 emplace_back function. https://git.io/JLtEJ
23:23:52 <glx> oh of course, I remember some comments waiting for c++17
23:25:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8381: Codechange: Make use of the improved C++17 emplace_back function. https://git.io/JLtEr
23:26:03 <TrueBrain> I want preview mode, ffs :P (yes, I know, patient is a virtue :D)
23:27:49 <LordAro> i remembered that too
23:28:05 <LordAro> michi_cc was clearly ready for it :)
23:28:19 <TrueBrain> I am shocked how quick he is with adapting C++17 :P
23:28:47 <TrueBrain> okay, livestream is going to happen ... we just have to do that ...
23:28:59 <TrueBrain> anyone daring enough to be on it? :P
23:29:22 <TrueBrain> can I vote people in? :D
23:29:24 * _dp_ also has some //uncomment when c++17
23:29:24 <andythenorth> as he twitch streamed
23:29:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8381: Codechange: Make use of the improved C++17 emplace_back function. https://git.io/JLtEJ
23:29:43 <andythenorth> this is why we moved to discord right?
23:29:49 <andythenorth> so some one can just stream the discord?
23:30:00 <TrueBrain> it is meh for streaming, I understand
23:30:34 <TrueBrain> but I happen to know someone, and I am not naming names ...... who knows a thing or two about setting this up for more than one person :D
23:30:36 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: You want to guess what my main two languages are when work involves coding?
23:30:39 <glx> discord is not bad for streaming, but number of viewers is limited
23:30:49 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: COBALT and ... hmm .. Fortran? :D
23:31:07 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I will poke nielsm tomorrow :)
23:31:20 <michi_cc> VB.Net and S7-SCL :p
23:31:31 <TrueBrain> I hope you are joking, right?
23:31:33 <andythenorth> does anyone have a funny accent?
23:31:38 <andythenorth> that will always be good on stream
23:31:50 <TrueBrain> you are way too good at C++ to be saying that shit :P
23:31:56 <TrueBrain> what the fuck is S7-SCL :P
23:31:57 <milek7> ugly, but could be useful :P
23:32:20 <TrueBrain> milek7: that ... works :)
23:32:43 <TrueBrain> that is better than what I was doing, so yeah
23:32:51 <michi_cc> VB.Net is quite underrated. Best part is the forced code formatting in MSVC which helps a lot when random people mess with it.
23:33:23 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe .. you feel to me like the C++ guru of us all
23:33:30 <michi_cc> S7-SCL is the Siemens variant of Structured Control Language using in PLC programming.
23:33:31 <TrueBrain> and for you dayjob you do ... the opposite :P
23:33:39 <TrueBrain> ah ... those words mean more to me :D
23:33:41 <andythenorth> oof I really fail at sleeping again
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23:33:52 <michi_cc> For my day job I mostly don't code at all though.
23:35:11 <TrueBrain> neither did I the last few years :P Funny how that goes :D
23:36:25 <TrueBrain> milek7: what is the best way to include it as a new file?
23:36:29 <TrueBrain> add it as another pre-js?
23:38:14 <michi_cc> The one thing I really miss from .NET in C++ is the async/await that just works. C++20 might have provided a 10000 tile puzzle to build something like that, but in .NET it simply works.
23:39:16 <TrueBrain> it is why I enjoy Ruby and Python a lot
23:39:26 <TrueBrain> the async approach just makes so much code so much easier to read/write
23:39:55 <milek7> not sure, I would just stick it into pre.js
23:40:47 <TrueBrain> time to run eints for a bit, to fix annoying warnings
23:41:07 <TrueBrain> I love I can do that from the GitHub webinterface :D
23:43:33 <TrueBrain> milek7: Uncaught TypeError: SOCKFS is undefined
23:45:25 <TrueBrain> seems to work in prerun
23:45:52 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
23:48:09 <TrueBrain> seems to work-ish .. but that might be a bug in my side :D
23:48:16 <TrueBrain> (it fails to connect to my websocket)
23:49:16 <TrueBrain> it should work, but Firefox says: cannot connect .. hmmm
23:49:59 <TrueBrain> what was your websocket server again milek7 ? :)
23:50:20 <milek7> wss://milek7.pl:4000/host/port
23:51:17 <milek7> ports 3900-4000 allowed
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23:51:41 <TrueBrain> just want to reach your own server :D
23:51:54 <TrueBrain> very odd this works for Chrome and not for Firefox ..
23:52:11 <milek7> then wss://milek7.pl:4000/milek7.pl/3979
23:52:52 <TrueBrain> okay, yours works, so it is mine that is an issue
23:53:55 <TrueBrain> problem is with Firefox
23:53:59 <TrueBrain> "Connection" string changed :P
23:55:59 <TrueBrain> that is a really cool trick milek7 , tnx a lot :D
23:56:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
23:56:15 <TrueBrain> I should make you co-author .. I have been willing to do that for a while now ..
23:58:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8355: Add: support for emscripten (play-OpenTTD-in-the-browser) https://git.io/JIn4l
23:58:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:59:43 <TrueBrain> credit where credit is due :)
continue to next day ⏵
