IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-11-21
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09:23:21 <longtomjr> morning andy. Did you have any breakthroughs yesterday evening?
09:26:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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09:47:34 <andythenorth> I can drop some goals, and focus on making the result look better
09:47:38 <andythenorth> pretty standard outcome TBH
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10:15:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain commented on pull request #37: Add: support more than one CDN url https://git.io/JkaE6
10:46:04 <LordAro> lol @ translator request
10:50:41 <andythenorth> hmm faster nml anyone? o_O
10:57:14 <LordAro> done any profiling recently?
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11:00:51 <andythenorth> not of Horse or nml no
11:01:02 <andythenorth> I suspect I should just buy a new computer
11:02:47 <andythenorth> TBH it's not usually a problem, the cycle time is ok
11:03:02 <andythenorth> but I am testing company colour remap sprites, changing 1 colour at a time to get a nice visual result
11:03:06 <andythenorth> and compile time is 30s :P
11:12:48 <andythenorth> lol making optimised versions of colours like Purple
11:12:55 <andythenorth> such a horrible colour anyway :)
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11:38:40 <andythenorth> orange is really the worst CC range
11:38:44 <andythenorth> it's got no contrast
11:38:50 <andythenorth> orange is a very odd colour
11:39:17 <Wolf01> You even say orange when you meant tangerine and vice versa
11:40:00 <andythenorth> is clementine a colour?
11:40:40 <andythenorth> lego orange is also hideous
11:40:52 <andythenorth> although lime is the worst
11:41:59 <Wolf01> The real problem with orange is that it's reddish brown... or yellow, I can't decide which orange to use when I need it
11:42:40 <andythenorth> generally the answer is "don't"
11:42:45 <andythenorth> except for switch handles
11:43:44 <andythenorth> cream is also an unpleasant CC
11:43:52 <andythenorth> it looks like the food chunks from vomit
11:44:55 <Wolf01> Yeah... thank you to set me in "I won't eat lunch today until I unsee it" mode
11:45:28 <andythenorth> although I am reconsidering my breakfast now oof
11:46:35 <andythenorth> green is pretty bad
11:46:43 <andythenorth> dark green and pale green are very nice
11:50:45 <Wolf01> A thing which makes me think about the extreme complexity of human life is "how do I search in the new OpenTTD manual?"
12:10:16 <andythenorth> or we could index it with elastic search or something and feed results into a search box over XHR
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12:20:55 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> google <- I tried, 404
12:21:42 <andythenorth> this subtle colour remapping is quite nice
12:21:52 * andythenorth wonders if base game should implement it
12:22:00 <frosch123> given how much they crawl, i expected the search engines to update earlier
12:22:09 * andythenorth thinks newgrf is probably best
12:22:53 <frosch123> duckduck is also funny. searching for "github truewiki" finds longtom*r creating an issue there, but not the real repo
12:22:58 <andythenorth> Google indexing is currently sporadic, as far as I can see
12:23:14 <andythenorth> I've had some pages picked up within 1 hour and go to top of SERPs
12:23:22 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01 try Bing <- same
12:23:22 <andythenorth> but validation of failed pages is taking ages
12:23:35 <andythenorth> and indexing requests are disabled in Search Console
12:23:45 <andythenorth> have we got a Site Map?
12:24:00 <frosch123> oh, since october? so it's political?
12:24:08 <andythenorth> I assumed technical fuck up but eh
12:24:22 <andythenorth> do we have accounts on Google Search Console and Bing?
12:24:32 <andythenorth> if we want to use Google as search, it might need managed
12:24:46 <frosch123> no, we want to use duckduck
12:25:05 <frosch123> it's the only option when you want to impose it on others
12:25:31 <andythenorth> red trains really could go faster
12:27:46 <Wolf01> We could really give companies different bonuses based on CC, red: faster vehicles, green: lower maintenance costs, blue: cheaper purchases...
12:29:06 <Wolf01> And disable CC change in game, what you get you get
12:29:52 <andythenorth> newgrf CB to forcibly set player CC
12:33:41 <frosch123> how much xp do you need to unlock red cc?
12:35:57 <Wolf01> Active member in forum for 5 years
12:37:52 <andythenorth> the tank game has player colours
12:38:04 <andythenorth> 70% elite players are purple
12:38:14 <andythenorth> everyone else is other colours
12:38:23 <andythenorth> less than average are red tomatoes
12:42:38 <Wolf01> I'm going to paint a tank pink in TMS, I'm still deciding which one
12:51:42 <Wolf01> Maus won't be in game, not enough space inside workshop
12:52:08 <Wolf01> Hetzer maybe next year with custom tanks support
12:52:41 <andythenorth> modding pack: bigger workshop
13:18:29 <andythenorth> oof last company colour reshading nearly done
13:18:43 <andythenorth> 2 hours of waiting for compiles :P
13:45:34 <longtomjr> Oh, just saw something you might be interested in andythenorth
13:46:16 <Wolf01> I still have to find something of which he wouldn't be interested in :P
13:46:36 <longtomjr> Some of the RVs from polroad has three cargo-subtype options. Random-livery, standard 2cc livery, real life based livery
13:47:12 <andythenorth> yeah AV8 has 4 liveries for planes similarly
13:47:13 <longtomjr> That might be another way to go about this
13:47:45 <andythenorth> I just think the subtypes API for liveries was broken when cargos were added to it
13:47:47 <longtomjr> Maybe you can do something like that for the engines. `1cc livery, 2cc livery`
13:48:27 <longtomjr> And then the player can choose if they want 1cc engines, and use 2cc for the wagons
13:48:40 <longtomjr> or if they want 2cc for the engine, and default color for the wagons or something
13:52:35 <andythenorth> I'm going to avoid the subtypes :)
13:52:42 <andythenorth> I've used it a few times, and it never works well
13:53:12 <longtomjr> hehe, sorry for bringing it up again. I just saw it in game and thought it were an interesting approach to solve the problem
13:53:13 <andythenorth> I'm going to keep it simple, wagons will just use 1cc and 2cc, even in groups
13:53:37 <andythenorth> but I'll do a parameter so players can over-ride group 1cc and 2cc if they really want to, to one choice each
13:54:19 <andythenorth> ideally I'd just be able to read the wagon CC settings from the client
13:55:00 <longtomjr> btw, I don't know if you are interested in doing it, but I have been thinking about forking IH to just have a wagon set
13:55:09 <andythenorth> I wondered if someone would
13:55:13 <andythenorth> to add on to other grfs
13:55:43 <longtomjr> Yep, since the wagons from IH is really really good. And there are some wagons there that is not in other sets
13:55:53 <andythenorth> it would need to be a 3rd party fork
13:56:32 <longtomjr> hehe, I might do that when I get some time, or when we want to run a game where we need it.
13:57:41 <longtomjr> Thinking of doing a subtropics themed multiplayer game again after our Russia + East europe game is done. And then I would like to have some extra wagons to go with the Tropical renewal set.
13:57:52 <longtomjr> I want to try out the new FIRS4 economy
14:07:19 <andythenorth> it's quite intense, Steeltown FIRS 4
14:08:18 <longtomjr> I have played with steeltown firs4 previously
14:08:25 <longtomjr> but I want to try the In a Hot Country
14:12:07 <andythenorth> it's unchanged from v3 mostly
14:12:15 <andythenorth> it's a bit boring, everything is just export
14:12:51 <longtomjr> I liked the one in v3
14:13:14 <longtomjr> It plays differently from extreme and steeltown
14:25:02 <andythenorth> it's just a bit limited because I tried to make it realistic to W. Africa
14:25:10 <andythenorth> instead of having a gameplay theme
14:27:59 <longtomjr> I like the export focus, especially with a nice heightmap, where you have a bunch of inland farm areas, and then a dry coast where you have to take the processed food to for exports
14:47:45 <andythenorth> I did have some test code for controlling vehicle properties using vehicles as the bits
14:48:13 <andythenorth> by flipping, it's possible to create a useful bitmap, as long as there are 4 or more vehicles
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16:16:52 <andythenorth> at what point do we just relabel?
16:33:29 <Wolf01> Last time I've seen the use of "laden" was on Monty Python and the Holy Grail...
16:34:07 <Wolf01> Also Bin Laden, but I don't think it has the same meaning
16:35:42 <andythenorth> we could just cut OpenTTD releases from JGR upstream instead of openttd/master?
16:35:52 <andythenorth> would it be major version bump?
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18:13:41 <milek7> I need some sort of graph that plots GB downloaded vs GB stored
18:14:33 <milek7> so I could read from it eg. "x GB of stored data accounts for y GB of used bandwidth"
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18:33:57 <andythenorth> newrgf settings won't be per player
18:34:09 <andythenorth> so setting base colour for wagons in a parameter
18:34:20 <andythenorth> is a stupid thing to do on MP servers :|
18:35:54 <frosch123> are you sure people interested in liveries play mp?
18:36:32 <milek7> "If the transfer takes too long, it is best to try to do the upload at another time of day."
18:36:35 <milek7> that's... not encouraging (hetzner)
18:36:47 <longtomjr> We have a multiplayer server, and 20-40 % of gameplay is menus and liveries
18:37:25 <frosch123> one company coop or multiple conpanies?
18:37:42 <longtomjr> multi company co-op
18:37:47 <longtomjr> with infrastructure sharing
18:37:58 <andythenorth> frosch123 newgrf var for the livery bollocks settings?
18:38:08 <andythenorth> but...then we can never delete those settings :P
18:38:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: there is little reason in having more livery settings than vehicles in your game
18:39:01 <frosch123> per wagon painting becomes more reasonable
18:39:28 <andythenorth> this was so combinatorial to try and code in params / magic
18:39:41 <andythenorth> I think I've simplified it and eliminated a lot of choices
18:40:21 <andythenorth> random more / less / none is orthogonal to the actual colours, which is better
18:40:48 <andythenorth> choosing the colours in grf param is just a crude solution to setting wagon colour for groups
18:44:49 <andythenorth> I was going to do some kind of automatic realism option
18:44:58 <andythenorth> like grey wagons before 1940, then brown, then cc
18:45:07 <andythenorth> but it's boring to code, boring to play
18:46:35 * andythenorth considers checking game date for April 1 and doing rainbows
18:46:48 <andythenorth> CC seems quite aggressively cached, not sure if it will work :)
18:47:39 <longtomjr> lol the longer daylength games may still see it :P
18:51:17 <andythenorth> frosch123 3rd company colour solves all this madness :D
18:51:25 <andythenorth> and fits in group livery UI
18:51:34 <andythenorth> oh frosch123 retired, I keep forgetting :D
18:55:18 <frosch123> if you use spritestacks, the recolouring is not chaced
18:55:28 <frosch123> you can change it on every vehicle movement
18:56:26 <frosch123> ah, you implemented wagon aging and colour fading
18:57:42 <andythenorth> it looks that way
18:57:49 <andythenorth> I didn't actually do aging :P
18:58:39 <andythenorth> so what madness could I do with spritestacks?
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19:26:01 <frosch123> do you have a setting for "royal sovereigns livery"? (what even is that)
19:30:58 <andythenorth> and I don't know
19:31:04 <andythenorth> I have a fake version of that engine
19:31:14 <andythenorth> stats are all 'wrong' though
19:31:41 <andythenorth> hmm shall I start a patchpack?
19:32:36 <frosch123> too bad. i thought we could answer that guy: use horse, set parameter 2, 3 and 7 to values 5, 10 and 4. attach 3 wagons of y to engine x, ctrl+click the 2nd and 3rd wagon, and then you have the livery you want
19:33:39 <frosch123> make a css patchpack. colour trains using css
19:33:51 <andythenorth> if you prefix the instructions with 'go to github and fork Iron Horse'
19:34:17 <andythenorth> this stuff looks remarkably like the LESS theming of 2 css frameworks I maintain :P
19:34:32 <andythenorth> theme vars, modified by python and injected to the LESS at compile time
19:34:49 <andythenorth> css editing inside OpenTTD? o_O
19:35:32 <frosch123> i considered adding a http server to ottd, and offer a newgrf debugger on localhost:8000 or somethign
19:36:56 <andythenorth> tweak company colours directly :P
19:37:01 <andythenorth> if I can find the right byte
21:17:20 <andythenorth> frosch123 these cc livery settings :)
21:17:36 <andythenorth> all passenger coaches use 'passenger coach (steam)' in buy menu
21:17:42 <andythenorth> and mail vans also use same
21:18:29 <andythenorth> I can set EMU and DMU colours, but only for engines, not any matching wagons
21:18:36 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins
21:20:45 <frosch123> it even does that for maglev wagons :)
21:44:01 <andythenorth> remove remove remove :P
21:45:46 <andythenorth> oh frosch removed frosch :(
22:23:30 <milek7> do you think it's necessary to make backups of data stored on backblaze b2?
22:37:57 <andythenorth> any data you can't afford to lose, you need multiple backups
22:38:01 <andythenorth> using different strategies
23:02:53 <milek7> "can't afford to lose" is tough distinction to make
23:09:18 <milek7> like, does bananas content is stored somewhere else than s3?
23:38:00 <LordAro> TB's probably got a backup somewhere
23:38:11 <LordAro> but if s3 disappears, the world has bigger problems
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