IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-11-02
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00:04:47 <andythenorth> the inability to auto-replace articulated vehicles might make this unwise
00:04:53 <andythenorth> can only have one model
00:33:40 <FLHerne> glx: Looking at the "block is not referenced" warnings when compiling FIRS, some of them look bogus at a quick glance :-/
00:34:27 <FLHerne> e.g. soda_ash_mine_tile_1_anim_control
00:34:56 <FLHerne> Oh, I just realized that there's a "Block 'soda_ash_mine_tile_1_anim_control' returns a constant, optimising." warning above that
00:35:22 <FLHerne> So it optimizes out the user, which makes the block not-referenced?
00:35:37 * FLHerne sleep now though. Tomorrow.
00:35:50 <FLHerne> (using IRC as convenient memory storage)
00:35:51 <glx> yeah not referenced existed before I added optimising
00:36:36 <glx> so when it's optimised, the call is replaced by return value, and the callee is no longer referenced
00:37:55 <FLHerne> Ok, that's probably solvable easily
00:38:11 <FLHerne> Do you know if it's the case that all ActionD variables should be constant throughout one grf execution, unless the code itself changes them?
00:38:27 <FLHerne> I asked frosch a while ago and got an answer I didn't understand :p
00:39:04 <glx> I think they should be constant if used as grf parameters
00:40:53 <FLHerne> I noticed that we're generating a lot of the same ActionD chains over and over
00:41:35 <FLHerne> And was wondering if we could reuse them when there isn't register pressure on the parameters
00:42:49 <FLHerne> Non-trivial to implement though, except some very simple cases
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10:47:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain approved pull request #76: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5KL
10:47:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #76: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7rd
10:48:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain approved pull request #14: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5KO
10:48:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #14: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7oT
10:49:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #36: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5KZ
10:49:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #36: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7oV
10:49:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain approved pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5Kl
10:49:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7oH
10:49:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5K0
10:50:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7Kn
10:50:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5Kz
10:50:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7KR
10:57:47 <TrueBrain> commit checker is strict :P
10:59:36 * andythenorth has drawn 50% of the train
10:59:42 <andythenorth> it would be 100%, but something derailed it
11:01:16 <TrueBrain> you know that 100% is a lie :P
11:03:05 <TrueBrain> I need a dashboard to see how all our repositories that are on AWS are doing honestly ..
11:03:23 <TrueBrain> so easy to lose count
11:04:46 <TrueBrain> grr @ pyup .. I want you to update NOW
11:04:50 <TrueBrain> not make silly issues
11:05:46 <TrueBrain> I don't see how I can overrule the schedule
11:05:48 <TrueBrain> which is a bit silly
11:28:11 <TrueBrain> no clue why it says NML Release is failing .. even GitHub Actions badge says that
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11:29:18 <LordAro> something to do with the master branch failing release for some reason?
11:29:18 <TrueBrain> I wish "commits" would change color between 0 and any number
11:29:30 <LordAro> maybe i should delete those 3 failing workflow runs?
11:30:35 <LordAro> you should add OTTD to that list too
11:30:51 <TrueBrain> yeah ... as soon as you finished the port from Azure DevOps :)
11:31:47 <TrueBrain> 291 commits since last release .. nice number :)
11:36:42 <TrueBrain> well, at least now I can tell I did process all the pyup PRs :P
11:48:15 <TrueBrain> "I use SHA512 with a fixed salt" <- I read this on a random page on the internet .. it always makes me a bit sad :P It is a good step, but it is not sufficient. It still surprises me how little education is done why we salt and what it protects against .. the user is not the blame here btw, just the education is ..
11:48:47 <TrueBrain> I had colleagues telling customers the salt should be private and stored away carefully .. that is a lie :P
11:49:47 <TrueBrain> and the most common one: "but the salt is stored in the code, so if my database is breached, they do not have it" ... if your database is breached, safe to assume so is your codebase
12:16:15 <TrueBrain> wait, what part of me are you shaking? :P
12:16:23 <TrueBrain> be .. specific please :P
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14:39:28 <andythenorth> never ceases to amuse or surprise me
14:39:57 <andythenorth> bloke with a brain injury gets a lot done
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15:30:31 <andythenorth> anyone care to play 'git'?
15:30:49 <andythenorth> I need to know if the current rev has a tag annotation
15:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> other than HEAD? no
15:32:19 <andythenorth> but if I've annotated, e.g. 1.4.1
15:32:38 * andythenorth reading how tags work
15:38:07 <andythenorth> "git name-rev --name-only --tags HEAD" seems to work, but SO says it doesn't
15:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> initial googling suggests "git describe --tags --exact-match"
15:38:58 <andythenorth> yeah that seems to return a tag name if matched, otherwise fatal error
15:40:14 <andythenorth> "fatal: no tag exactly matches 'bd9c349e73fb74a93ef96486936eb9f8f13a5eca'"
15:40:24 * andythenorth wonders if it's safe to try and string match "fatal" there :P
15:40:33 <andythenorth> will I name a tag "fatal" ever?
15:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> just check return value
15:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if exit code is not 0, it was an error
15:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the shell of your choice should have easy functions for that
15:43:44 <andythenorth> python subprocess.run :P
16:00:20 <andythenorth> it seems to perform, but it prints 'fatal: no tag exactly matches '5cdbde0b97f4260f777b0573ba19394e0c3fddd7' to stdout if no tag is found
16:00:28 <andythenorth> which I don't want to see in every compile
16:00:44 * andythenorth bets £10 Eddi|zuHause posted the whale metro?
16:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm fairly sure it actually gets printed to stderr
16:02:34 * andythenorth way out of depth
16:02:40 <andythenorth> this is all cargo-culted
16:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try "stderr=subprocess.DEVNULL"
16:06:54 <andythenorth> "that will never go wrong"
16:07:06 <andythenorth> shell scripting is an interesting world
16:07:12 <andythenorth> but I don't belong in it
16:08:31 <FLHerne> Well, that bit tells you the last tag
16:08:53 <andythenorth> I could possibly adopt that script
16:09:03 <FLHerne> I think the `release = describe[1] == "0"` is the bit that tells you there are no changes *since* the last tag
16:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that split seems slightly more wonky than --exact-match
16:10:15 <andythenorth> my temptation is always to believe the longer more complicated code is more correct
16:10:26 <andythenorth> that's probably never a fallacy ever
16:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that is usually wrong :p
16:11:59 <andythenorth> so with this, I can conditionally insert an action 14 link to release docs
16:12:06 <andythenorth> or to [something else]
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19:09:14 * andythenorth wonders if newgrfs run in the same address space
19:09:47 * andythenorth stops wondering that
19:09:57 * andythenorth wonders what is for lunch
19:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of address space?
19:20:58 <FLHerne> They have separate sets of parameters, act2 vars, etc, so 'not really'?
19:22:03 * andythenorth wondered if combining GPL grfs with non-GPL grfs was a GPL violation
19:22:15 <andythenorth> then I remembered not to slice my own fingers off
19:25:37 <FLHerne> I think you could conceivably argue that 'extension' grfs like UKRS2+ were derivative works of the original even without sharing code
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19:26:16 <FLHerne> Because they don't work without the base grf, and poke around with its settings
19:27:04 <FLHerne> But that would be pretty tenuous, and they're always under the same license anyway
19:36:30 <andythenorth> also they're not GPL :)
19:40:41 <FLHerne> Well, there could be a hypothetical FIRS extension
19:40:50 <FLHerne> To re-add Extreme mode :D
19:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: real copyright violations are already properly complicated, don't need to make it worse by adding hypothetical ones
19:50:29 <FLHerne> If you made a grf that exploited a buffer overflow to perform arbitrary code execution within OTTD, and it patched in a daylength feature and timetables that work, while also having every British locomotive no matter how obscure, but wasn't GPL-licensed
19:50:38 <FLHerne> ...would that be a violation?
19:51:41 <FLHerne> Wolf01: I think you're the third one today
19:53:10 <Wolf01> Maybe if I didn't have to work
19:53:57 <andythenorth> FLHerne depends if you made source available :P
19:59:46 <frosch123> FLHerne: if you make it agpl, maybe all savegames and scenarios will also be agpl
20:03:56 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: they made the art look better at least
20:05:22 <TrueBrain> people have been voting to keep it like this, as it looks like a movie-scene
20:06:50 <frosch123> ah, it is art... i was wondering what it was :)
20:07:53 <frosch123> well, a subway above water is art in itself, or maybe it is just dutch :p
20:09:40 <TrueBrain> building anything NOT above water is tricky in The Netherlands :P
20:10:22 <frosch123> i guess the subway is on sea level
20:29:06 <andythenorth> I did some tanks
20:29:18 <Wolf01> I repair the tanks you smash
20:29:49 <andythenorth> I'm not really good
20:39:37 <TrueBrain> that website hurts my eyes
20:40:28 <andythenorth> you get used to it
20:40:42 <TrueBrain> that makes it sound like I have to :P
20:41:52 <frosch123> i think the concerns were about the colors :)
20:42:04 <TrueBrain> they were; but he only sees numbers, so that is fine :)
20:47:28 <andythenorth> I don't much like the ads, or the cookie warning
20:47:34 <andythenorth> I should probably get plugins to solve that
20:47:44 <TrueBrain> I went like: "what ads?"
20:48:09 <TrueBrain> guess PiHole is dealing with that just fine :P
20:51:08 <frosch123> uBlock shows this number on its icon, how many requests it blocked
20:56:13 <andythenorth> also are tank game stats off-topic for this channel?
20:56:48 <frosch123> we assumed you were comparing your win rates with your ship drawing progress
20:57:21 <andythenorth> lol my editor applies correct syntax highlighting to "@preoperty"
21:01:38 <andythenorth> hmm can't use property in the root level of a module
21:01:42 <andythenorth> has to be in a class
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21:17:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: @preoperty is valid syntax, you can define custom decorators
21:18:37 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
21:18:42 <FLHerne> If your editor was really good, it would complain about 'preoperty' being an undefined variable
21:18:49 <FLHerne> I think I made KDevelop do that a while ago
21:22:21 <andythenorth> hmmm Horse release, or refactor 3 other grfs for consistency in compile methods?
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21:56:48 <andythenorth> bundles links are dead
21:57:34 <andythenorth> bananas doesn't offer downloads, right?
22:02:35 <FLHerne> New-BaNaNaS doesn't, but that's a not-implemented-yet thing
22:02:50 <FLHerne> (I asked this the other day :p)
22:14:59 * andythenorth amends Horse docs
22:26:39 * andythenorth fixes Title Case
22:29:12 <andythenorth> sentence case is so weird for titles, but It's The New Way
22:33:08 <frosch123> i like "Sentence Case Is The New Way" :)
22:40:28 <andythenorth> it's so weird making navigation sentence case
22:40:36 <andythenorth> because it often contains Proper Nouns
22:40:41 <andythenorth> so then there's an inconsistency
22:41:01 <andythenorth> Horse docs now have 'Get started' and 'Code reference' but also 'Train Whack!'
22:41:52 <frosch123> make everything lowercase?
22:42:16 <frosch123> or make WHACK all uppercase?
22:42:42 <frosch123> or remove the other links and only keep Train Whack?
22:43:03 <andythenorth> I can probably wrap .lower() etc in a random.choice?
22:43:25 <frosch123> +1 to randomly changing capitalisation :)
22:43:47 <frosch123> different on every reload, like the trains
22:45:00 <andythenorth> that would need JavaScript
22:45:16 <andythenorth> shall I tag Horse?
23:05:26 <andythenorth> wow did I really research use of GPL for html?
23:09:41 <andythenorth> "Sprites complete for 499 consists; incomplete for 0 consists; 100%"
23:09:48 <andythenorth> 1 more for the round number
23:25:43 * andythenorth uploads to bananas
23:25:49 <andythenorth> who made this html anyway :P
23:26:54 <andythenorth> do I make my source code available?
23:26:59 <andythenorth> there's a message saying I have to
23:27:36 <frosch123> never heard of that
23:27:55 <andythenorth> sounds familiar though
23:28:05 <frosch123> i would have expected that was discussed here
23:28:05 <andythenorth> maybe I was away when it was discussed
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23:48:21 <andythenorth> but I released 100% trains
23:48:29 <andythenorth> please send grats etc
23:50:16 <FLHerne> All the trains is nice, I'll have to try Horse again sometime
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