IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-11-02
            
00:02:49 <FLHerne> yay
00:04:47 <andythenorth> the inability to auto-replace articulated vehicles might make this unwise
00:04:53 <andythenorth> can only have one model
00:14:17 * andythenorth bed
00:14:21 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
00:33:40 <FLHerne> glx: Looking at the "block is not referenced" warnings when compiling FIRS, some of them look bogus at a quick glance :-/
00:34:27 <FLHerne> e.g. soda_ash_mine_tile_1_anim_control
00:34:56 <FLHerne> Oh, I just realized that there's a "Block 'soda_ash_mine_tile_1_anim_control' returns a constant, optimising." warning above that
00:35:22 <FLHerne> So it optimizes out the user, which makes the block not-referenced?
00:35:37 * FLHerne sleep now though. Tomorrow.
00:35:50 <FLHerne> (using IRC as convenient memory storage)
00:35:51 <glx> yeah not referenced existed before I added optimising
00:36:36 <glx> so when it's optimised, the call is replaced by return value, and the callee is no longer referenced
00:37:55 <FLHerne> Ok, that's probably solvable easily
00:38:11 <FLHerne> Do you know if it's the case that all ActionD variables should be constant throughout one grf execution, unless the code itself changes them?
00:38:27 <FLHerne> I asked frosch a while ago and got an answer I didn't understand :p
00:39:04 <glx> I think they should be constant if used as grf parameters
00:40:53 <FLHerne> I noticed that we're generating a lot of the same ActionD chains over and over
00:41:35 <FLHerne> And was wondering if we could reuse them when there isn't register pressure on the parameters
00:42:49 <FLHerne> Non-trivial to implement though, except some very simple cases
00:53:52 *** Progman has quit IRC
01:22:41 *** Flygon has joined #openttd
01:43:30 *** namad7 has joined #openttd
01:47:50 *** namad7 has quit IRC
02:45:12 *** Wormnest has quit IRC
04:29:03 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
04:30:46 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
04:52:49 *** debdog has joined #openttd
04:56:14 *** D-HUND has quit IRC
05:18:41 *** glx has quit IRC
05:45:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
05:46:17 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC
05:49:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
05:59:06 *** nielsm has joined #openttd
07:03:50 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
07:44:05 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:49:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:55:07 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd
07:56:38 *** Smedles has quit IRC
08:03:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
08:06:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:11:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
08:11:22 *** longtomjr has joined #openttd
08:28:19 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
08:43:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:30:42 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
09:30:55 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
10:20:34 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
10:44:00 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
10:47:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain approved pull request #76: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5KL
10:47:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #76: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7rd
10:48:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain approved pull request #14: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5KO
10:48:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #14: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7oT
10:49:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #36: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5KZ
10:49:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #36: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7oV
10:49:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain approved pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5Kl
10:49:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7oH
10:49:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5K0
10:50:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7Kn
10:50:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT5Kz
10:50:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November https://git.io/JT7KR
10:55:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot opened issue #30: Initial Update https://git.io/JT56J
10:55:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot opened pull request #31: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JT56k
10:56:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JT56k
10:57:47 <TrueBrain> commit checker is strict :P
10:57:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JT56k
10:59:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #31: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JT560
10:59:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #31: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JT56k
10:59:36 * andythenorth has drawn 50% of the train
10:59:42 <andythenorth> it would be 100%, but something derailed it
11:01:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain closed issue #30: Initial Update https://git.io/JT56J
11:01:16 <TrueBrain> you know that 100% is a lie :P
11:02:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.6 https://git.io/JT56K
11:02:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.1.1 https://git.io/JT56i
11:02:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.7 https://git.io/JT56X
11:03:05 <TrueBrain> I need a dashboard to see how all our repositories that are on AWS are doing honestly ..
11:03:23 <TrueBrain> so easy to lose count
11:04:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot opened issue #32: Initial Update https://git.io/JT565
11:04:46 <TrueBrain> grr @ pyup .. I want you to update NOW
11:04:50 <TrueBrain> not make silly issues
11:05:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain closed issue #32: Initial Update https://git.io/JT565
11:05:46 <TrueBrain> I don't see how I can overrule the schedule
11:05:48 <TrueBrain> which is a bit silly
11:06:20 *** DorpsGek_III has quit IRC
11:27:19 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/dashboard <- right, that should help a bit
11:28:11 <TrueBrain> no clue why it says NML Release is failing .. even GitHub Actions badge says that
11:28:30 *** DorpsGek_III has joined #openttd
11:28:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.5 https://git.io/JT5PM
11:28:40 <LordAro> nice
11:28:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.14 https://git.io/JT5Py
11:29:18 <LordAro> something to do with the master branch failing release for some reason?
11:29:18 <TrueBrain> I wish "commits" would change color between 0 and any number
11:29:30 <LordAro> maybe i should delete those 3 failing workflow runs?
11:29:47 <TrueBrain> try it :)
11:30:10 <LordAro> \o/
11:30:33 <TrueBrain> nice :)
11:30:35 <LordAro> you should add OTTD to that list too
11:30:36 <LordAro> :p
11:30:51 <TrueBrain> yeah ... as soon as you finished the port from Azure DevOps :)
11:31:00 <LordAro> ah damn
11:31:02 <LordAro> :p
11:31:37 <TrueBrain> okay, added it ..
11:31:47 <TrueBrain> 291 commits since last release .. nice number :)
11:36:42 <TrueBrain> well, at least now I can tell I did process all the pyup PRs :P
11:37:17 <LordAro> :)
11:48:15 <TrueBrain> "I use SHA512 with a fixed salt" <- I read this on a random page on the internet .. it always makes me a bit sad :P It is a good step, but it is not sufficient. It still surprises me how little education is done why we salt and what it protects against .. the user is not the blame here btw, just the education is ..
11:48:47 <TrueBrain> I had colleagues telling customers the salt should be private and stored away carefully .. that is a lie :P
11:49:47 <TrueBrain> and the most common one: "but the salt is stored in the code, so if my database is breached, they do not have it" ... if your database is breached, safe to assume so is your codebase
12:01:53 <longtomjr> We salt for flavor
12:13:52 <TrueBrain> hmm .. salt ....
12:15:51 * LordAro shakes TrueBrain
12:16:15 <TrueBrain> wait, what part of me are you shaking? :P
12:16:23 <TrueBrain> be .. specific please :P
12:16:30 <LordAro> oh no
12:16:57 <TrueBrain> :D
13:17:08 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
13:47:05 *** jottyfan has quit IRC
14:35:03 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
14:39:00 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
14:39:22 <andythenorth> GarryG has made mariokart https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1237635#p1237635
14:39:28 <andythenorth> never ceases to amuse or surprise me
14:39:57 <andythenorth> bloke with a brain injury gets a lot done
14:51:07 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd
15:16:39 *** Webster has quit IRC
15:18:08 *** Webster has joined #openttd
15:30:31 <andythenorth> anyone care to play 'git'?
15:30:49 <andythenorth> I need to know if the current rev has a tag annotation
15:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> other than HEAD? no
15:32:19 <andythenorth> but if I've annotated, e.g. 1.4.1
15:32:38 * andythenorth reading how tags work
15:38:07 <andythenorth> "git name-rev --name-only --tags HEAD" seems to work, but SO says it doesn't
15:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> initial googling suggests "git describe --tags --exact-match"
15:38:58 <andythenorth> yeah that seems to return a tag name if matched, otherwise fatal error
15:40:14 <andythenorth> "fatal: no tag exactly matches 'bd9c349e73fb74a93ef96486936eb9f8f13a5eca'"
15:40:24 * andythenorth wonders if it's safe to try and string match "fatal" there :P
15:40:33 <andythenorth> will I name a tag "fatal" ever?
15:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> just check return value
15:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> exit code
15:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if exit code is not 0, it was an error
15:40:57 <andythenorth> oh I see
15:41:03 <andythenorth> more googling
15:41:12 <andythenorth> ok thanks :)
15:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the shell of your choice should have easy functions for that
15:43:44 <andythenorth> python subprocess.run :P
15:59:52 <andythenorth> this doesn't quite work https://github.com/andythenorth/polar-fox/commit/b251c88e2ec780ef546914f26332e09bc596de36?branch=b251c88e2ec780ef546914f26332e09bc596de36&diff=split
16:00:20 <andythenorth> it seems to perform, but it prints 'fatal: no tag exactly matches '5cdbde0b97f4260f777b0573ba19394e0c3fddd7' to stdout if no tag is found
16:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> can we have this in openttd? https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/niederlande-metro-stoppt-erst-auf-kunstwerk-a-7fc0755a-a932-429d-87ac-dbb4a6ee1e19
16:00:28 <andythenorth> which I don't want to see in every compile
16:00:44 * andythenorth bets £10 Eddi|zuHause posted the whale metro?
16:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm fairly sure it actually gets printed to stderr
16:02:30 <andythenorth> hmm
16:02:34 * andythenorth way out of depth
16:02:40 <andythenorth> this is all cargo-culted
16:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try "stderr=subprocess.DEVNULL"
16:05:58 <andythenorth> seems to work
16:06:54 <andythenorth> "that will never go wrong"
16:07:06 <andythenorth> shell scripting is an interesting world
16:07:12 <andythenorth> but I don't belong in it
16:07:56 <FLHerne> andythenorth: NML does this https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/nml/version_update.py#L40
16:08:30 <andythenorth> so it does
16:08:31 <FLHerne> Well, that bit tells you the last tag
16:08:53 <andythenorth> I could possibly adopt that script
16:09:03 <FLHerne> I think the `release = describe[1] == "0"` is the bit that tells you there are no changes *since* the last tag
16:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that split seems slightly more wonky than --exact-match
16:10:15 <andythenorth> my temptation is always to believe the longer more complicated code is more correct
16:10:26 <andythenorth> that's probably never a fallacy ever
16:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that is usually wrong :p
16:11:59 <andythenorth> so with this, I can conditionally insert an action 14 link to release docs
16:12:06 <andythenorth> or to [something else]
16:12:17 <andythenorth> hurrah
16:34:13 *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:56:32 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:26:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:16:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:33:14 *** jottyfan has quit IRC
18:54:09 *** Compu has joined #openttd
18:56:32 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
19:08:00 <andythenorth> well
19:09:14 * andythenorth wonders if newgrfs run in the same address space
19:09:47 * andythenorth stops wondering that
19:09:57 * andythenorth wonders what is for lunch
19:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of address space?
19:20:58 <FLHerne> They have separate sets of parameters, act2 vars, etc, so 'not really'?
19:22:03 * andythenorth wondered if combining GPL grfs with non-GPL grfs was a GPL violation
19:22:15 <andythenorth> then I remembered not to slice my own fingers off
19:23:44 <FLHerne> Definitely not
19:25:37 <FLHerne> I think you could conceivably argue that 'extension' grfs like UKRS2+ were derivative works of the original even without sharing code
19:25:51 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
19:26:16 <FLHerne> Because they don't work without the base grf, and poke around with its settings
19:27:04 <FLHerne> But that would be pretty tenuous, and they're always under the same license anyway
19:36:30 <andythenorth> also they're not GPL :)
19:38:04 *** glx has joined #openttd
19:38:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
19:40:41 <FLHerne> Well, there could be a hypothetical FIRS extension
19:40:50 <FLHerne> To re-add Extreme mode :D
19:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: real copyright violations are already properly complicated, don't need to make it worse by adding hypothetical ones
19:45:24 <andythenorth> yes
19:50:29 <FLHerne> If you made a grf that exploited a buffer overflow to perform arbitrary code execution within OTTD, and it patched in a daylength feature and timetables that work, while also having every British locomotive no matter how obscure, but wasn't GPL-licensed
19:50:38 <FLHerne> ...would that be a violation?
19:51:04 <Wolf01> https://9gag.com/gag/aD4LV8Z new feature?
19:51:41 <FLHerne> Wolf01: I think you're the third one today
19:52:01 <FLHerne> You gotta be faster!
19:53:10 <Wolf01> Maybe if I didn't have to work
19:53:57 <andythenorth> FLHerne depends if you made source available :P
19:59:46 <frosch123> FLHerne: if you make it agpl, maybe all savegames and scenarios will also be agpl
20:03:56 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: they made the art look better at least
20:05:22 <TrueBrain> people have been voting to keep it like this, as it looks like a movie-scene
20:06:50 <frosch123> ah, it is art... i was wondering what it was :)
20:07:21 <TrueBrain> tails of a walrus
20:07:53 <frosch123> well, a subway above water is art in itself, or maybe it is just dutch :p
20:09:40 <TrueBrain> building anything NOT above water is tricky in The Netherlands :P
20:10:22 <frosch123> i guess the subway is on sea level
20:21:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] PatrikSamuelTauchim opened issue #75: [cs_CZ] Translator access request https://git.io/JTdKf
20:29:00 <Wolf01> Mmmh, tanks time
20:29:06 <andythenorth> I did some tanks
20:29:18 <Wolf01> I repair the tanks you smash
20:29:39 <andythenorth> my WR slowly grinds up https://www.blitzstars.com/player/eu/northbynorthwest
20:29:49 <andythenorth> I'm not really good
20:33:04 <andythenorth> lol #2 on the server in this tank though https://www.blitzstars.com/player/eu/northbynorthwest/tank/16145
20:33:43 <andythenorth> the #1 player is waaaaay better than me https://www.blitzstars.com/topplayers/bytank?sort=special.winrate&days=30&tank=Pz.Sfl.%2520IVc&regions=eu
20:39:29 *** longtomjr has quit IRC
20:39:37 <TrueBrain> that website hurts my eyes
20:39:38 <TrueBrain> just saying
20:40:28 <andythenorth> you get used to it
20:40:42 <TrueBrain> that makes it sound like I have to :P
20:40:44 <andythenorth> lot of numbers
20:41:52 <frosch123> i think the concerns were about the colors :)
20:42:04 <TrueBrain> they were; but he only sees numbers, so that is fine :)
20:47:28 <andythenorth> I don't much like the ads, or the cookie warning
20:47:34 <andythenorth> I should probably get plugins to solve that
20:47:44 <TrueBrain> I went like: "what ads?"
20:48:09 <TrueBrain> guess PiHole is dealing with that just fine :P
20:48:17 <TrueBrain> or Ghostery
20:51:08 <frosch123> uBlock shows this number on its icon, how many requests it blocked
20:56:13 <andythenorth> also are tank game stats off-topic for this channel?
20:56:48 <frosch123> we assumed you were comparing your win rates with your ship drawing progress
20:57:21 <andythenorth> lol my editor applies correct syntax highlighting to "@preoperty"
20:57:24 <andythenorth> silly editor
20:59:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
21:01:38 <andythenorth> hmm can't use property in the root level of a module
21:01:42 <andythenorth> has to be in a class
21:01:43 <andythenorth> nvm
21:02:28 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
21:02:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
21:09:10 *** tokai has quit IRC
21:17:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: @preoperty is valid syntax, you can define custom decorators
21:18:37 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
21:18:42 <FLHerne> If your editor was really good, it would complain about 'preoperty' being an undefined variable
21:18:49 <FLHerne> I think I made KDevelop do that a while ago
21:21:20 *** heffer_ has quit IRC
21:21:31 *** heffer has joined #openttd
21:22:21 <andythenorth> hmmm Horse release, or refactor 3 other grfs for consistency in compile methods?
21:23:27 <andythenorth> refactor
21:27:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
21:29:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
21:30:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
21:40:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
21:42:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
21:56:30 <andythenorth> hmm
21:56:43 <andythenorth> "Download Zip" is now a bit of a lie https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.8.0/html/get_started.html
21:56:48 <andythenorth> bundles links are dead
21:57:34 <andythenorth> bananas doesn't offer downloads, right?
22:02:35 <FLHerne> New-BaNaNaS doesn't, but that's a not-implemented-yet thing
22:02:50 <FLHerne> (I asked this the other day :p)
22:02:58 <FLHerne> It will someday
22:14:59 * andythenorth amends Horse docs
22:21:18 *** heffer has quit IRC
22:21:28 *** heffer has joined #openttd
22:26:39 * andythenorth fixes Title Case
22:29:12 <andythenorth> sentence case is so weird for titles, but It's The New Way
22:33:08 <frosch123> i like "Sentence Case Is The New Way" :)
22:38:56 <TrueBrain> Lol :D
22:40:28 <andythenorth> it's so weird making navigation sentence case
22:40:36 <andythenorth> because it often contains Proper Nouns
22:40:41 <andythenorth> so then there's an inconsistency
22:41:01 <andythenorth> Horse docs now have 'Get started' and 'Code reference' but also 'Train Whack!'
22:41:52 <frosch123> make everything lowercase?
22:42:16 <frosch123> or make WHACK all uppercase?
22:42:42 <frosch123> or remove the other links and only keep Train Whack?
22:43:03 <andythenorth> I can probably wrap .lower() etc in a random.choice?
22:43:25 <frosch123> +1 to randomly changing capitalisation :)
22:43:40 <andythenorth> LoLz
22:43:47 <frosch123> different on every reload, like the trains
22:45:00 <andythenorth> that would need JavaScript
22:45:02 <andythenorth> ew
22:45:05 <andythenorth> or javascript
22:45:16 <andythenorth> shall I tag Horse?
22:46:17 <andythenorth> oops, changelog
23:03:45 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
23:05:26 <andythenorth> wow did I really research use of GPL for html?
23:05:29 <andythenorth> seems I did
23:09:41 <andythenorth> "Sprites complete for 499 consists; incomplete for 0 consists; 100%"
23:09:42 <andythenorth> lol
23:09:48 <andythenorth> 1 more for the round number
23:17:28 <TrueBrain> You go girl
23:18:06 *** gelignite has quit IRC
23:21:19 *** heffer has quit IRC
23:21:28 *** heffer has joined #openttd
23:25:43 * andythenorth uploads to bananas
23:25:49 <andythenorth> who made this html anyway :P
23:26:46 <andythenorth> oh
23:26:54 <andythenorth> do I make my source code available?
23:26:59 <andythenorth> there's a message saying I have to
23:27:36 <frosch123> never heard of that
23:27:55 <andythenorth> sounds familiar though
23:28:05 <frosch123> i would have expected that was discussed here
23:28:05 <andythenorth> maybe I was away when it was discussed
23:31:21 <TrueBrain> Temporal amnesia
23:31:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
23:31:58 <frosch123> good idea
23:32:00 <frosch123> night
23:32:03 *** frosch123 has quit IRC
23:32:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
23:46:00 *** Progman has quit IRC
23:48:18 * andythenorth also
23:48:21 <andythenorth> but I released 100% trains
23:48:29 <andythenorth> please send grats etc
23:49:58 <FLHerne> grats!
23:50:16 <FLHerne> All the trains is nice, I'll have to try Horse again sometime
23:54:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
23:55:13 * andythenorth must to bed
23:55:23 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:56:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd