IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-10-15
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06:30:13 <rptr_> what happened to AIList.HasNext()? :S
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09:32:46 <rptr_> is there a pathfinder which follows existing networks to see if two tiles are already connected by rail?
09:43:44 <LordAro> rptr_: admiral, trains & choochoo actually make proper rail networks, iirc
09:44:14 <rptr_> LordAro, i know. i meant, i have a network already, and i want to know if two tiles are connected with rail
09:44:30 <LordAro> rptr_: also, HasNext was removed over 10 years ago...
09:44:35 <rptr_> like, pathfinder but follow the rails. i guess i can write it myself
09:44:46 <rptr_> LordAro, huh! but i wrote some code in january using hasnext which worked O_O
09:45:08 <LordAro> if the compatibility mode is set old enough, it will work
09:45:16 <rptr_> guess that was the thing then
09:46:01 <LordAro> pathfinder - there's indeed no existing library functions, i was meaning you can look at the code of those AIs to see how they do it
09:48:36 <rptr_> yeah i was looking at some of the other AIs
10:57:35 <TrueBrain> the author of wikitextparser already fixed one of the more annoying bugs I had \o/ That dude is quick :)
10:59:36 <TrueBrain> I wish I maintained my repositories like this, tbh :P
11:00:41 <rptr_> i just found there's an Open Cola (open source coca cola recipe)
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12:06:54 <TrueBrain> whoho, I can render all the english pages again :)
12:07:48 * andythenorth encouragement-as-a-service
12:07:57 <andythenorth> we should make an encourage-bot?
12:12:38 <TrueBrain> (hmm ... Marvin ... the best robot ever :P)
12:23:27 <andythenorth> paranoid android
12:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause> marvin is great. i like marvin
13:07:16 <TrueBrain> can't believe glx does approve only 2 out of the 3 open requests :P
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13:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i was trying to reverse engineer a savegame format for an old game... online search shows some russian site which has some partial information, but not the information i need
13:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so i tried making savegames where i only change minimal things, but that makes huge differences in the resulting file
13:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> now i need a sane binary diff, that can handle data shifting around by a few bytes
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14:39:02 <TrueBrain> ghehe, frosch exported a page called "Index.php/Image:Fractal Landscape.scn" .. that is not a wikipage! :D
14:44:57 <TrueBrain> only "rowspan" is acting up; needs a fix in the wikitextparser
14:47:12 <TrueBrain> and it is crazy fast :D
14:49:16 <andythenorth> no wow, that is fast actually
14:49:30 <TrueBrain> and that is with zero (!) caching
14:49:35 <TrueBrain> not even the flags are being cached
14:49:48 <TrueBrain> hell, I think it loads css every request ..
14:50:02 <TrueBrain> which takes 100ms .. :D
14:50:16 <TrueBrain> which makes it 300% slower than needed
14:50:41 <andythenorth> that running on your machine?
14:51:03 <TrueBrain> and bounced via ngrok
14:51:15 * andythenorth is contemplating ngrok
14:51:16 <LordAro> ttps://835c2cc8a28b.eu.ngrok.io/Main/en/OpenTTD%201.10.2 external links (within ()?) are sad
14:51:17 <TrueBrain> but this wikitextparser library is stupid fast
14:51:19 <andythenorth> no more opening ports
14:51:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: your link is sad!
14:51:54 <andythenorth> FWIW our dev machines are about 4x the performance of the cloud hosts we use :P
14:52:00 <andythenorth> catches us out sometimes
14:52:02 <TrueBrain> and let me see if I can fix those links .. not sure what is happening :)
14:52:07 <LordAro> no, not just the links within ()
14:52:35 <LordAro> something weird going on with the text at the top of the page too "Main/en/OpenTTD 1.10.2"
14:53:06 <TrueBrain> PAGENAME, let me fix that :)
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14:54:22 <TrueBrain> okay, all the links via the template are not working .. hmm ...
14:55:39 <TrueBrain> and I am missing tons of CSS btw
14:55:47 <TrueBrain> if you open up gollum.css, you are going to cry :P
14:56:29 <LordAro> everyone loves minified css
14:56:39 <TrueBrain> llloooowwwwweeeerrrr :P
14:56:44 <LordAro> ...with lots of whitespace
14:56:54 <TrueBrain> it is ... "partially" minified :D
14:57:04 <TrueBrain> but that is my handywork :)
14:59:41 <TrueBrain> but it appears to be an acceptable solution for our wiki ..
14:59:49 <TrueBrain> silly fast .. low on memory ..
15:00:05 <TrueBrain> sorry, I was too hasty :P
15:00:14 <TrueBrain> that page is odd .. let me investigate :D
15:01:04 <TrueBrain> this is a table in a table that is not being picked up :)
15:01:48 <LordAro> all of the scenario pages appear to be blank
15:02:18 <TrueBrain> yeah, export issues
15:02:24 <LordAro> looks like they're using some weird template system
15:02:33 <TrueBrain> the {{Scenario is not being translated
15:02:43 <LordAro> ideally it'd be some sort of dynamic filter page
15:02:47 <TrueBrain> should be {{en/Scenario in the next syntax frosch made up :)
15:03:00 <LordAro> rather than having to explicitly list scenarios individually
15:03:09 <TrueBrain> you can bind it to categories
15:03:16 <TrueBrain> that is about it, in mediawiki
15:03:24 <TrueBrain> if we do this "render ourself" stuff, we can what-ever :P
15:06:35 <LordAro> i can't show you an example though :p
15:12:06 <TrueBrain> pretty sure our wiki is already fucked up enough .. not sure that adding extensions is going to help :D
15:15:34 <TrueBrain> seriously, the amount of crap people have been trying to do .. it is insane :)
15:15:47 <TrueBrain> the "rf status" is my favourite
15:15:56 <TrueBrain> just make 20 templates with 0% .. 5% .. 10% .. etc in them
15:16:01 <TrueBrain> to render the % status ..
15:16:19 <TrueBrain> (that user clearly did not know "switch" as available)
15:18:05 <LordAro> i'd suggest that switch wasn't a thing in 2009, but i think we know that's not true
15:22:51 <TrueBrain> hmm .. in my chrome, I now see my keyboard cursor where I click, blinking
15:22:55 <TrueBrain> wtf .. how did that happen
15:23:18 <TrueBrain> and how do I get that off :)
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15:32:05 <TrueBrain> awh, the Scenario namespace is not exported, so I cannot render that :(
15:51:06 <TrueBrain> right, about as much as I can do without a new export :D
15:51:21 <TrueBrain> guess we have to make a choice if we want gollum to do the editing, or that we implement that ourself too
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17:10:56 <frosch123> i think a custom wiki editing thingie is way less work than bananas
17:11:31 <frosch123> i keep thinking about it, but i can only come up with about 3 forms
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17:12:55 <TrueBrain> it seems to dull simple
17:13:01 <TrueBrain> so I guess we are going to do this :P
17:15:37 <TrueBrain> currently I am comparing HTML with mediawiki and my renderer, just to see if there are obvious things wrong
17:15:43 <TrueBrain> mediawiki is .. weird with when it adds <p>
17:18:52 <TrueBrain> it is a bit ... can a <dl> be inside a <p> or not
17:18:55 <TrueBrain> I don't know the answer :D
17:19:19 <frosch123> we would not even have to implement a page to display the history/diff. we can just link to the gh page that does the same
17:19:58 <TrueBrain> it sometimes is useful to view history, as in, rendered
17:20:02 <TrueBrain> but for diff I fully agree
17:20:05 <frosch123> TrueBrain: iirc when i wrote the bananas templates, someone scolded me for putting a ul into a p
17:20:19 <frosch123> apparently lists are not supposed to be inside paragraphs
17:20:27 <TrueBrain> LordAro tends to have an opinion on that yes :P
17:21:46 <TrueBrain> ugh, this adding of <p> is not fun .. I really need a library that does it for me :P
17:25:46 <TrueBrain> diff is slightly difficult, because of some URLs that changed .. mostly \s to _
17:26:03 <TrueBrain> but I am pretty happy with this result :D Some minor tweaking so I can diff in an automated way
17:26:11 <TrueBrain> means I can scan more pages
17:26:19 <TrueBrain> to see if we have a different ... understanding, of the code :D
17:27:51 <frosch123> looks nice :) i only notice the missing link colors: same page, existing page, missing page
17:28:04 <TrueBrain> missing page does render properly
17:28:10 <TrueBrain> but CSS is a mess :)
17:28:18 <TrueBrain> same page also renders
17:28:21 <TrueBrain> not sure what you mean?
17:28:27 <frosch123> there is a spurios <nowiki> on that page
17:28:35 <TrueBrain> yeah, still not sure how to handle that :P
17:28:51 <TrueBrain> I have to do some tests with it :)
17:29:31 <frosch123> oh wait, that's probably because you still use my indexer?
17:29:49 <TrueBrain> I am! I was hoping fort a new export soon :D
17:29:53 <frosch123> (btw. it's funny how many more languages are linked now)
17:30:21 <TrueBrain> owh, and because you rendered the language bar as HTML, it does not do "you are on this page"
17:30:29 <TrueBrain> I think we have to make it a mediawiki file
17:30:36 <TrueBrain> that would allow me to fix that easily :D
17:31:00 <TrueBrain> I am still not sure about the URL btw ..
17:31:03 <frosch123> yeah, this was the easier solution in gollum :p
17:31:06 <TrueBrain> en/Main would make more sense to me
17:31:27 <TrueBrain> but okay, bikeshedding
17:31:29 <frosch123> i'll write more about that later :)
17:31:57 <TrueBrain> the most issues left are because of the export, as far as I know :)
17:32:05 <TrueBrain> which is a luxury issue tbh :P
17:33:04 <TrueBrain> I am still surprised by how fast this is
17:33:08 <TrueBrain> and the Python code really is not efficient
17:33:28 <TrueBrain> (where wikitextparser avoids copies where possible .. I just copy strings all over the place :P)
17:34:46 <TrueBrain> hmm, found a page where lists are rendered poorly .. LETS INVESTIGATE! :D
17:36:01 <frosch123> i see, you keep the wikitextparser guy busy :)
17:36:39 <TrueBrain> yeah .. found a few bugs :D
17:36:46 <TrueBrain> all on weird edge-cases, tbh
17:36:57 <TrueBrain> all except 1 I have fixed locally
17:37:01 <TrueBrain> I hope he can fix that 1
17:37:10 <TrueBrain> so far he has been fixing 1 per day, so we should be done by the end of the weekend :D
17:39:32 <TrueBrain> it is funny how simple it is :P
17:40:23 <TrueBrain> I am also slowly replacing the prints on console about missing stuff, to in-page errors
17:43:10 <TrueBrain> but that is CSS bla :P
17:46:31 <TrueBrain> I like how a mess mediawiki really is .. {{BLA}} can be a variable, or a parser-function
17:46:38 <TrueBrain> but you also have NOTOC and TOC
17:46:49 <TrueBrain> because .. {{TOC}} was too weird? :P
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17:47:16 <TrueBrain> I mean .. it is not a function, not a variable .. it is just something else all together
17:49:26 <frosch123> that kind of stuff exists in most languages. python is a noteable exception
17:49:42 <TrueBrain> it used to exist in Python, but they weeded it out :P
17:50:15 <frosch123> the worst are languages which use ascii-art-arrows everywhere "<", "=>", "->" etc..
17:50:53 <frosch123> python is extremly consistent with always using ":" where other language use many different separators
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18:03:50 <TrueBrain> okay, the diff really is minimal so far .. and I think I know how to fix <p> properly
18:03:57 <TrueBrain> will do that after dinner :D
18:04:18 <TrueBrain> the HTML mediawiki outputs is not .. the best .. but making it the same at least makes it easier to spot any parsing issues :)
18:07:26 <frosch123> poor admins at work... i ran out of popcorn at noon, watching all the pitchforks hungering for admins :)
18:08:03 <frosch123> but it is still ongoing
18:12:48 <TrueBrain> What did you break? :p
18:13:08 <frosch123> oh, i am just a spectator
18:14:03 <frosch123> the mail server now inserts a big red do-not-trust banner to all mails from extern
18:14:14 <frosch123> which is probably really useful for people who mostly communicate internally
18:14:36 <frosch123> but the problem is, that the banner is in the mail content, so remains when replying
18:14:37 <andythenorth> standard malware attack?
18:14:48 <andythenorth> or 'please recall all emails' scenario?
18:15:12 <frosch123> so all customer-facing people who communicate externally all day, spend all day deleting the red banner from the customer mails when replying
18:15:28 <frosch123> just to not show the customer that they may not be trusted :)
18:15:49 * andythenorth would not have guessed that one
18:16:54 <TrueBrain> Hahaha :D Classic issues :)
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18:59:14 <TrueBrain> mediawiki suggests <center> is a block element
19:01:24 <TrueBrain> as it is not HTML5, more difficult to find that in the specs :)
19:01:49 <TrueBrain> it is a block element
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19:08:13 <frosch123> what else would it be?
19:08:40 <TrueBrain> was just difficult to find the answer :)
19:14:48 <TrueBrain> okay, automated diffing is not going to happen .. too many small differences which really are completely okay
19:14:53 <TrueBrain> stuff like: different order of attributes
19:16:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] LordAro approved pull request #47: Change: Some minor layout and css improvements https://git.io/JTs3a
19:18:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if I can help with the exporter, let me know :) Otherwise I will make a start with some editing
19:26:52 <TrueBrain> ah, no, I first have to write code to not use eval() :D
19:30:37 <andythenorth> should I not use eval() any more?
19:30:47 <andythenorth> I eval the newgrf translation strings
19:30:47 <TrueBrain> go sit in a corner now
19:30:50 <andythenorth> that's ok right?
19:38:07 * LordAro sends andythenorth to the naughty step
19:41:48 <TrueBrain> "centre" instead of "center" .. lol
19:41:56 <TrueBrain> mediawiki really accepts everything, just silently hides any errors
19:42:19 <LordAro> the browser of the wiki world
19:42:36 <TrueBrain> I think that in edit-mode it should show any/all warnings a page has
19:42:46 <TrueBrain> hiding it from the end-result, sure .. but while editing, it should show it
19:43:11 <TrueBrain> 2020-10-15 19:42:35 ERROR [Main/en/Fallout Newkton] Upload does not exist: File:en/.<div class="thumb tright"><div class="thumbinner">Image not found<div class="thumbcaption"><div class="magnify"><a href="/File:en/Scn-fallout-newkton-map.png" class="internal" title="Enlarge">🔍</a></div>Newkton Minimap</div>
19:43:18 <TrueBrain> I think it is plausible that it cannot find that upload :P
19:43:28 <LordAro> difficult to do with just a text box
19:43:45 <TrueBrain> I was thinking about a banner above the text box
19:44:03 <LordAro> more doable in visual-editor mode, of course
19:44:20 <TrueBrain> doing it in-place is hard; as that requires a lot of bookkeeping to know the exact location
19:44:40 <TrueBrain> and the way the page is rendered, that is really difficult to keep track of
19:44:45 <TrueBrain> pretty sure that is not worth it :)
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19:46:37 <TrueBrain> so often I see that in a template there is [[Image:{{{1}}}]], and the caller does {{Template|[[Image:myimage.png]]}}
19:46:43 <TrueBrain> in other words .. it tries to render an image of an image
19:46:47 <TrueBrain> for SOME REASON that fails :P
19:52:02 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:55:36 <andythenorth> shocked doesn't cover it
20:54:40 <TrueBrain> LordAro: something that you will enjoy, but it seems we can just use the WYSIWYG editor from mediawiki :P
20:55:23 <TrueBrain> the default one comes with A LOT of bells and whistles
20:55:27 <TrueBrain> we might want to slim it down
20:55:52 <TrueBrain> but the complex conversion of mediawiki to html and back, is in a single plugin
20:56:03 <TrueBrain> it is a long plugin :D
20:56:29 <TrueBrain> and if we fake the API, it doesn't even require a change
20:58:58 <TrueBrain> not for version v1 anyway, but I don't really see an issue implementing something like that
21:00:54 <TrueBrain> so, plan for this weekend: make a lib out of this renderer, make it able to collect errors, and decouple it from the filesystem (so you have to implement a few functions as user of the lib to load templates and pages etc) .. after that we can make a mini-wiki-server, and start working on the editing part :D
21:01:09 <TrueBrain> and I guess frosch123 needs to make a nice plan for the layout for OpenTTD :D
21:01:20 <TrueBrain> still happy with the speed of this ...
21:05:04 <frosch123> do we need a wysiwyg editor? it would be weird if the python rendered and js renderer give different results
21:06:45 <TrueBrain> "need", no, hence not for v1
21:06:54 <TrueBrain> but it also won't be very difficult, by the looks
21:07:22 <TrueBrain> and the rendering is always done by Python; just in the editor you get a bit of a dumb-down version of what it will look, give or take
21:07:32 <TrueBrain> we will have to experiment how close they are, and how annoying it is
21:07:36 <TrueBrain> but, again, not for v1 :)
21:18:26 <frosch123> half of my problems are pages/images which only differ in case :(
21:18:55 <TrueBrain> :( that is annoying
21:19:42 <TrueBrain> I have to fix tables of other languages
21:19:42 <TrueBrain> ... that will be fun too :p
21:20:40 <frosch123> three pictures, two have the same name
21:50:46 <frosch123> KeyError: 'Right-of-way Merge' <- never had that one... what could it mean
21:55:33 <frosch123> lol, it's a name of a page... i thought it was some python dict merge thingie
21:56:19 <LordAro> lol, i thought you were being sarcastic
21:57:27 <frosch123> if it had been "AsiaStar", i would have understood it :)
22:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: just drop all the coop-style stuff. the game is better off without it :p
22:05:20 <frosch123> there is no point in deleting stuff like that. people will readd it over time. it's better to have a proper labeled trashbin, where they happily add it themself to
22:05:33 <frosch123> that way the rest is kept clean
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23:01:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8328: Make openttd reproducible by not embedding timestamps in gzip https://git.io/JTOUR
23:20:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames https://git.io/JTs6e
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