IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-07-30
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02:58:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8279: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJWrE
03:22:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8279: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJWrE
03:35:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8279: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJWrE
04:20:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8279: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJWrE
07:30:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
07:40:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8279: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJWrE
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08:37:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgl3
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09:03:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #59: Directories in uploaded ZIP files stripped https://git.io/JJuy0
09:07:51 <TrueBrain> why can I never find where the ingame client downloads files :P
09:14:09 <TrueBrain> so the content-downloader extracts base music, where all other downloads remain in their tar ... well, that is fun :)
09:16:57 <TrueBrain> funny .. the OpenTTD client has a non-complient tar extractor :(
09:17:21 <TrueBrain> the likelihood that I wrote it is very high, so I guess I know who to punish tonight >:D
09:26:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #59: Directories in uploaded ZIP files stripped https://git.io/JJuy0
09:26:33 <TrueBrain> well, that was an interesting ride
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09:28:38 <TrueBrain> it does need validating that only base-music is affected by this .. my memory of OpenTTD internals is not that great :P
09:31:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #59: Directories in uploaded ZIP files stripped https://git.io/JJuy0
09:33:06 <TrueBrain> seems musa was also not doing this correctly
09:38:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgRF
09:44:48 <TrueBrain> morning nielsm ; regarding your lovely find about base music, am I right to assume you only diagnosed it by looking inside the OpenTTD client, but never really downloading the tarball and looking into it? (just to confirm my finding is correct :D Not meant as an attack of any kind, to be clear :P)
09:45:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co… https://git.io/JJg0j
09:52:04 <TrueBrain> awh, I scared him off :(
09:54:58 <TrueBrain> well, I hope I didn't miss anything in my diagnosis .. as then this is an easy fix :D
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11:14:15 <TrueBrain> since when did you move to the ghetto?
11:15:05 <dihedral> I was just happy to "see" you
11:15:14 <TrueBrain> so I am my friend, so am I :)
11:15:17 <TrueBrain> happy to see me, that is :P
11:15:24 <TrueBrain> sorry, this was too easy :)
11:15:39 <dihedral> too easy, and too expected
11:15:50 <TrueBrain> yeah, otherwise people get nervous :P
11:15:52 <dihedral> What's new with you?
11:16:22 <TrueBrain> nothing much tbh .. you?
11:17:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co… https://git.io/JJgVt
11:18:30 <dihedral> doing well - enjoying live. Company is running well, sadly i am still a ppl student :-P
11:19:10 <dihedral> but flying with the instructure is still rather cool :-D
11:19:13 <TrueBrain> live .. yeah, life is very live, most of the time :P
11:19:41 <dihedral> oh, yeah... took me a second read to spot that one
11:20:20 <TrueBrain> I am such a child ... :P
11:20:29 <TrueBrain> you would think with age that goes away ... nooopppeeee
11:21:15 <TrueBrain> but yeah .. next few days should be good sunny days over here, and I have all the time in the world to enjoy that sun :D
11:21:40 <TrueBrain> and, I finally have time to work with AWS again for OpenTTD, which also makes me really happy :) Has been idling for too long now ..
11:21:41 <dihedral> vacation or no job? or are you still studying?
11:22:24 <TrueBrain> I am so happy I am done with studying .. well, for 5-ish years already, but ugh, still .. brrr, happy that is over :P
11:22:56 <TrueBrain> I rather learn on the job, tbfh :)
11:23:41 <dihedral> yeah - so you like aws?
11:23:59 <TrueBrain> does anyone really like AWS? But it is better than managing shit yourself :)
11:24:09 <TrueBrain> it is, however, expensive, as we found out :P
11:26:34 <dihedral> aws can be so expensive, that you could become my customer :-D
11:27:02 <dihedral> and we do shared managing - whatever you want to do yourself, you do yourself, everything else we can do for you :-)
11:27:30 <dihedral> we only do vmware vm's
11:27:36 <TrueBrain> haha, well, I can imagine a lot of people like that :D
11:28:02 <TrueBrain> what I like most about the OpenTTD setup, everything has failovers .. I can just pull down an ECS instance, and nothing really changes
11:28:07 <TrueBrain> at worst, someone's connection is broken
11:28:31 <TrueBrain> that does remind me, I do have to setup an offsite backup for the storage
11:28:38 <TrueBrain> the "just in case AWS really fucks up"
11:30:23 <_dp_> khm... about fallovers... can someone plz bring back coop devzone? xD
11:30:46 <TrueBrain> sadly, nothing I can do for you there
11:31:09 <TrueBrain> funny enough, the only infrastructure part that is closely related to OpenTTD, and not within my control :P I was happy someone else was doing it :D
11:33:45 <dihedral> we can also do offsite backups :D
11:34:05 <TrueBrain> pretty sure OpenTTD won't be able to pay you :P
11:37:19 <TrueBrain> shit, when did he arrive?! :P
11:37:54 <dihedral> I would feel bad if OpenTTD wanted to pay us :-D
11:39:46 <TrueBrain> the biggest issue we currently have, AWS is very expensive if you do 6TB per month via CloudFront ... :P
11:40:15 <andythenorth> I need an alert on my AWS account for bill shock
11:40:17 <andythenorth> that isn't just email :P
11:40:30 <TrueBrain> dihedral: to answer that publicly, our current bill is ~500 euro a month. But we have ~5000 euro of credits from AWS, so we are good atm :)
11:40:42 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how much is your bill? :P
11:40:53 <dihedral> andythenorth, wait until the creditcard company calls you
11:40:53 <andythenorth> my bill is about $6
11:41:00 <TrueBrain> of that ~500 euro is around ~450 euro in bandwidth, btw :P
11:41:06 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is not bad :)
11:41:12 <andythenorth> oh yeah, I should pay on my credit card, it has a limit
11:41:21 <andythenorth> currently it is on my bank card
11:41:48 <dihedral> andythenorth, the limit of your credit card does not mean that you would not owe what your card does not cover
11:42:22 <andythenorth> apparently AWS have automatic guards against DDOS bill shock
11:42:32 <andythenorth> I have a friend who got £50k bill due to DDOS
11:43:25 <andythenorth> top score is about 2m so far I think
11:43:29 <TrueBrain> he worries about it so much, he is broadcasting the URL AGAIN :P
11:44:25 <andythenorth> I didn't really look into all the charges, but since I have Cloudfront my s3 bill has disappeared
11:44:28 <andythenorth> so that's good eh
11:44:30 <TrueBrain> pff, I get cache misses, so clearly it is nto played enough atm :P
11:44:43 <andythenorth> we should replace front page of OpenTTD with it
11:44:44 <TrueBrain> that is a bit of the point of cloudfront :)
11:44:56 <andythenorth> super, I love this cloud shit
11:45:12 <andythenorth> AWS actually makes sense, it's like having an sftp server and Apache
11:45:18 <andythenorth> but it's all somebody else's problem
11:46:01 <TrueBrain> no security updates to worry about :)
11:46:05 <andythenorth> it's like my internet hosting from 1997 that I understand, but better
11:46:34 <andythenorth> I should try some lambdas or something to fuck it up
11:47:01 <TrueBrain> lambda@edge is fun :)
11:47:13 <TrueBrain> well, cloudflare is doing a better job at that atm, but okay :)
11:47:42 <TrueBrain> awh, I get a 403 on /favicon.ico on your site andythenorth :P
11:48:16 <andythenorth> looks like I haven't set a favicon
11:49:10 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you don't even do a callhome to keep a scoreboard? I am a bit dissapointed :(
11:49:24 <andythenorth> forks are possible
11:58:41 <TrueBrain> tempting andythenorth :P
11:58:57 <andythenorth> I kind of had my fun with it :)
11:59:12 <andythenorth> doing dumb stuff put some missing joy back
11:59:27 <andythenorth> if I do more...it just becomes work, a to-do list, bugs, etc
11:59:37 * andythenorth had misplaced the joy recently
11:59:53 <TrueBrain> glad you found back where you left it :)
12:00:36 <andythenorth> in the stupid cupboard :)
12:00:42 <andythenorth> where the stupid is kept
12:21:54 <andythenorth> I need indexes into the DOS palette for company colours
12:22:11 <andythenorth> e.g. COLOUR_PALE_GREEN and friends
12:22:55 <andythenorth> I looked in openttd src for them, I was hoping it was just a range (offset..offset+8)
13:24:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJg10
14:19:21 <andythenorth> oof 10MB of docs for browser upload to s3, this will be slow
15:48:21 <_dp_> I just realized that for many features I wanted I ended up not using them when they finally make it into release
15:48:43 <_dp_> because by that time I either have a workaround or juts moved on and don't want to mess with ancient code
15:50:06 <_dp_> e.g instead of authority gs I use magic bulldozer
15:50:25 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth what company is the blue and grey cheddar valley
15:51:00 <_dp_> instead mono font for neat tables still using messy wall of text
15:51:29 <_dp_> for raw_strings if they ever are implemented I have train groups workaround
15:51:52 <andythenorth> _dp_ I find same :)
15:51:56 <andythenorth> I've stopped asking for features
15:52:06 <andythenorth> I'd sort of like to see the game stop for a bit :)
15:52:18 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ ^^^
15:52:28 <supermop_Home_> do those run on the mainline?
15:52:37 <supermop_Home_> i thought they only owned like 08s
15:53:32 <supermop_Home_> also i like the executive 08s
15:53:38 <andythenorth> they pioneered an arrangement with private locos
15:54:55 <supermop_Home_> NSE 08 looks funny
15:59:54 <nielsm> TrueBrain: I did download the tar.gz of that music set with my browser and view it in WinRar but don't actually remember what I saw...
16:00:19 <nielsm> just checked again and yeah it does contain the directory, so I'm a bad reporter
16:01:35 <TrueBrain> nielsm: nah, you are not a bad reporter, I just wanted to make sure I am not overlooking something
16:01:39 <TrueBrain> cool, that means I know what to fix :D
16:03:19 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth are these trains on bananas?
16:04:08 <TrueBrain> owh, it was even Rb who made this function, pfew, I am not to blame, w00p! :D
16:04:40 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I do wonder if making a proper fix in OpenTTD is worth it, or that we should just fix BaNaNaS and leave this for the next time someone makes a new BaNaNaS version? :)
16:05:03 <nielsm> I think making ottd more resilient is worth it too
16:05:22 <TrueBrain> it is just a weird assumption that the first node in a tar is a directory-node
16:05:27 <nielsm> but def. need to fix so new uploads are also backwards compatible
16:05:40 <TrueBrain> luckily it is only base music that is an issue
16:06:13 <TrueBrain> and only a single upload
16:06:48 <TrueBrain> it is amazing how complex BaNaNaS, and its links with the OpenTTD client, has gotten :P
16:06:58 <TrueBrain> so many (undocumented) thingies :D
16:07:04 <TrueBrain> I should really write more of them down
16:10:00 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ not on bananas yet no :)
16:18:32 <TrueBrain> That is indeed good to know, and a fun bit of history :)
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17:38:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Galigator opened pull request #8286: Change: Service depot also reset breakdown chance. https://git.io/JJgj9
17:48:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8286: Change: Service depot also reset breakdown chance. https://git.io/JJ2e6
17:55:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co… https://git.io/JJ2eh
17:56:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8286: Change: Service depot also reset breakdown chance. https://git.io/JJ2vv
18:03:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8286: Change: Service depot also reset breakdown chance. https://git.io/JJ2vS
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18:38:10 <andythenorth> anybody can figure out the DOS palette indexes for COLOUR_ORANGE?
18:38:50 <andythenorth> usually it's an uninterrupted sequence, e.g COLOUR_PALE_GREEN is 96..103
18:39:10 <andythenorth> but COLOUR_ORANGE seems to 62, 63 then 192..197
18:42:41 <_dp_> can't you just dump _colour_gradient ?
18:43:30 <andythenorth> I can't currently compile, but I could fix that
18:43:45 <andythenorth> it's probably faster to eyeball it tbh
18:44:02 <nielsm> extract recolour sprite 787 from the baseset
18:44:42 <nielsm> and look at the bytes from position 0xC6
18:45:45 <andythenorth> 2ccmap.nfo looks promising
18:47:58 <andythenorth> not sure, those have 9 entries, do they map the first colour entry over the remaining?
18:49:11 <andythenorth> hmm, maybe only the first one has 9 :)
18:49:48 <nielsm> each gradient is 8 values
18:50:50 <nielsm> but look at my opengfx source link, those are the actual values that get loaded from the baseset grf :)
18:51:52 <andythenorth> looks like green also uses non-linear sequence
18:53:27 <_dp_> nielsm, mine is literally just a dump of _colour_gradient after that loop
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18:59:26 <andythenorth> nielsm the opengfx ones are the ones I need thanks :)
19:01:44 * andythenorth makes BAD FEATURES
19:01:56 <andythenorth> I should probably be finishing other useful work :P
19:01:59 <andythenorth> but that's like....work
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19:04:44 <_dp_> it's an interesting questions though why are mine different
19:04:57 <_dp_> openttd seems to load them all with offset 1
19:19:33 <_dp_> shifting them back just makes it weirder with opengfx and I don't have original graphics to test
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19:48:55 <andythenorth> it's a pretty niche foamer feature I think :)
19:49:03 <andythenorth> the rules are not always simple :P
19:57:13 <supermop_Home_> the table is easily parsed to me at least
20:06:16 <supermop_Home_> though you might be tickling the tigers tale
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20:06:45 <supermop_Home_> as soon i'll be clamoring for HST liveries
20:07:20 <supermop_Home_> and you'll need to figure out arcane rules to choose between executive and swallow
20:09:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJ2tv
20:12:41 <supermop_Home_> grey/light blue: prototype, light blue/ grey: ic125, red/white: executive, white/red: swallow, red/red: virgin 1, grey/red: virgin 2, red/grey: virgin 3, dkblue/red: gner,
20:14:23 <supermop_Home_> grey/white: nx
20:14:44 <supermop_Home_> none of the others matter
20:15:04 <supermop_Home_> tbh the virgin ones don't matter either
20:16:00 <supermop_Home_> unless you have the ablity to have jumbled rake of virgin mixed with grimy old executive coaches
20:16:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Galigator commented on pull request #8286: Change: Service depot also reset breakdown chance. https://git.io/JJ2t4
20:18:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJ2tV
20:19:19 <andythenorth> it really answers a lot of questions :o
20:20:07 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ HST liveries might actually be possible. Because they are articulated they don't support the depot-flip liveries (which are incompatible with this company colour magic). So...
20:20:58 <_dp_> frosch123, ehm, that doesn't seem to answer my single question :p
20:22:00 <frosch123> recolor sprites have a leading zero
20:22:14 <frosch123> you can tell by them being 257 bytes long
20:22:59 <frosch123> it's also the reason why very simple grf decoders have issues with recolor sprites, because they think they are action0s
20:23:14 <_dp_> frosch123, well, I guess that explains the offset
20:23:21 <_dp_> frosch123, does openttd load company colors wrong then?
20:25:55 <_dp_> it does + 0xC6 so it gets non-recolored 0xc5 first
20:29:50 <frosch123> the same is in ottd 0.1
20:30:29 <LordArtoo> CS bugs are the best features
20:30:38 *** LordArtoo is now known as LordAro
20:43:47 <frosch123> ofc it may also be an intentional adjustment of the overall gui brightness
20:44:02 <frosch123> assembly people love side effects
20:44:39 <andythenorth> hmm I need a DOS palette -> hex colour mapping
20:44:44 <andythenorth> I'm sure I have one already
20:45:34 <frosch123> check the cargo-color script
20:45:45 <frosch123> or was it an industry-color script?
20:46:22 <andythenorth> palette = utils.dos_palette_to_rgb()
20:46:45 <andythenorth> I just open the palette image I have and sample the colour :)
20:47:12 <andythenorth> sometimes doing it wrong is really quite effective
20:47:56 <andythenorth> I could just dump the results of my script once to a constant
20:48:03 <andythenorth> and save wear and tear on my SSD
20:48:04 <supermop_Home_> i've often wondered about a way to render things in pallet like colors
20:48:39 <frosch123> do you mean RGBA_EATER?
20:49:00 <supermop_Home_> but that is a way to downsample something after it has been rendered
20:49:01 <frosch123> that's V's python magic script to convert 32bpp into 8bpp
20:49:07 <frosch123> the results are quite good
20:49:34 <supermop_Home_> i'm thinking more a way for 32bpp sprites to keep a 'feel' of the 8bpp pallet
20:50:16 <supermop_Home_> like the actual shader would only shade CC blue to darker shades of the same hues
20:50:28 <_dp_> have anyone tried converting 8bpp into 32?
20:50:28 <frosch123> oh, if you want it to look like original graphics, just apply a noise filter
20:50:41 <frosch123> the original sprites are mostly random noise over the plain sprite
20:50:48 <supermop_Home_> but maybe allow intermediate shades within the original stack of 8
20:50:49 <_dp_> I heard upscaling scripts are quite good nowadays
20:51:07 <frosch123> _dp_: we were talking color space, not sprite size
20:52:02 <_dp_> frosch123, well, yeah, I guess I'm just used to 32bpp also meaning extra zoom
20:52:02 <frosch123> supermop_Home_: i thought you wanted to more colors by adding 16 shades each for hues not present in the original palette
20:52:16 <supermop_Home_> i want a way where i can set a locomotive to be some plain color, say the rgb equivalent of the normal CC blue, and then render it
20:53:13 <supermop_Home_> but enforce that all of the shades on it are of the same hue as the set of CC blues, even if they are different shades
20:53:31 <nielsm> do that with a separate mask layer you can multiple-blend by the target colour
20:53:43 <nielsm> or something similar to that at least
20:54:02 <supermop_Home_> so that lighting an shadows won't make washed out or muddy colors like on most rendered sets, but keep the bright toylike colors of the pallet
20:54:10 <nielsm> straight multiply blend won't work since you need to be able to saturate towards white too
20:54:30 <supermop_Home_> nielsm i also though about that, render everything in greyscale
20:54:33 <andythenorth> hmm not opening the palette image makes no difference to compile time :P (vs returning a simple list of 256 2-tuples)
20:54:43 <supermop_Home_> and composite on palette colors in PS
20:54:43 <andythenorth> SSDs are fast eh
20:55:40 <supermop_Home_> frosch123 i did use stacks in my RVs to build them out of various bits that could change
20:56:33 <frosch123> yeah, but with stack you can also mix 32bpp and 8bpp sprites and alpha-blend them
20:56:54 <frosch123> so you can add the 8bpp hue with some alpha-mixing over the base 32bpp sprite
20:57:15 <nielsm> but that still only gives you 8 shades of cc
20:57:53 <frosch123> though the shades of each cc have very different hue, so to make it look good you need to use different cc shades for dark/light in the overlay
20:58:23 <frosch123> nielsm: you can alpha-blend them with greyscale
20:58:41 <frosch123> but you cannot make a continuous transition between to cc shades
20:58:50 <frosch123> since the steps are different for all cc
20:59:16 <supermop_Home_> if you only layered over the middle cc shade over grey areas, that might work but it would probably look weird
20:59:38 <frosch123> we tried that, it looks completely different :)
20:59:55 <supermop_Home_> also i would want this for more than just CC, also to render a concrete or brick building
20:59:56 <frosch123> colors like yellow/cream/gold looks weird
21:00:53 <LordAro> disappointingly, i discovered that there's a commit message in master with a ' ' at the beginning
21:01:41 <frosch123> you would have to look up irc logs from 2015-05-24
21:01:55 <supermop_Home_> and have it look similar in color to a brick or concrete building from the base set
21:05:05 <andythenorth> company colours are shown as gradients :D
21:05:08 <LordAro> hmm, doesn't go back that far
21:05:12 <andythenorth> fortunately css is modern :P
21:05:14 <LordAro> i probably have them somewhere...
21:06:37 <frosch123> LordAro: if you really want them, i have my own logs
21:07:05 <LordAro> my own (relatively indexed) logs only go back to 2016/10, disappointingly
21:07:15 <LordAro> i could probably dig out older ones if i tried hard enough
21:07:29 <frosch123> i have no idea what broke coop logs
21:07:54 <frosch123> but probably the same thing that broke the rest of coop :)
21:09:36 <supermop_Home_> frosch123 yeah any shading of a given palette color, whether by blending it with a greyscale, or shading it in a render, would not produce those weird hue profiles
21:10:22 <supermop_Home_> though maybe you could make a renderer that would try to do something weird like that
21:11:07 <andythenorth> frosch123 those charts :D
21:11:27 <frosch123> my theory about ottd screenshots: we used the greyscale value of the 32bpp sprite to interpolate the spline defined by the CC shades
21:11:30 <supermop_Home_> interesting how consistent in hue light blue is
21:11:43 <frosch123> the different versions are about mapping different grey ranges
21:11:47 <supermop_Home_> maybe that's why i think it always looks so good on most vehicles
21:11:57 <andythenorth> hmm css gradient can't reproduce the ottd gradient quickly
21:12:05 <andythenorth> I *could* just use bitmap images :P
21:12:20 <frosch123> so in 40C0 i think grey40 is mapped to the darkest shade, and then interpolated up to C0 for the lightest shade
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21:13:26 <_dp_> LordAro, do you seriously not going to include #8237 just because it's called a "feature"?
21:13:36 <_dp_> LordAro, you seem to have no issues with #8287 :p
21:13:53 <LordAro> #8287 is just mislabeled
21:14:00 <LordAro> #8237 is an actual change
21:14:05 <frosch123> supermop_Home_: grey and white are pretty consistent
21:14:05 <LordAro> and frosch123 had some issues with it
21:15:03 <supermop_Home_> frosch123 i should hope so!
21:15:20 <supermop_Home_> the blue curve on orange and yellow is nuts
21:16:02 <LordAro> given that behaviour has been around forever, i'd say it is :p
21:16:04 <nielsm> it is normal! just not desirable
21:16:53 <_dp_> well, whatever, I'll just do another useless newgrf...
21:17:42 <nielsm> the "allow more than one of each industry type per town" setting could be changed to "maximum number of each industry type per town", with zero meaning unlimited
21:18:08 <LordAro> nielsm: definitely couldn't backport that :p
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21:18:25 <nielsm> that's a new feature yes
21:18:30 <LordAro> but that doesn't sound like a bad plan
21:18:51 <_dp_> nielsm, why tf do you think it's a good idea to tie industry density to town density?
21:19:35 <nielsm> the oil rig spam never happened in the original game because it always had the limit of one of each industry per town
21:19:51 <_dp_> also oil is broken because its generation only makes sense for island maps
21:20:34 <_dp_> nielsm, also because it was always an island so it has way more water on borders
21:20:56 <_dp_> the whole border thing only makes sense for islands
21:21:35 <nielsm> well it might also be weird for oil rigs to appear in small inland lakes
21:21:42 <nielsm> which is the main reason for that rule
21:22:15 <_dp_> well, they still appear in small inland lakes as long as they're near the border :P
21:22:55 <andythenorth> oof, nested tables
21:23:03 <LordAro> might be a bit much to try to pathfind to the world border on industry generation :p
21:23:27 <andythenorth> takes me a lot of 'newgame' to get no FIRS ports in tiny lakes
21:25:03 <_dp_> LordAro, I never said it should :p
21:25:18 <LordAro> that's the only way i can think of to avoid inland lakes
21:25:22 <_dp_> non-island maps are the same on border and in center, makes no sense to have different spawns
21:25:26 <LordAro> alternatively, maybe we don't care
21:26:45 <_dp_> I only care that there is no way to get rid of border thing
21:27:10 <_dp_> if they didn't spawn at all it would be fine
21:27:17 <_dp_> but it also limits refineries
21:27:39 <_dp_> makes no sense whatsoever from any perspective
21:29:53 <_dp_> LordAro, is that lake on the Earth border? :p
21:41:17 <_dp_> btw, did original game even allow to change any settings?
21:41:32 <_dp_> iirc it just had a number of predefined scenarios
21:41:46 <nielsm> yes there were a bunch of difficulty settings
21:41:53 <nielsm> that include some terrain options
21:44:40 <frosch123> the best "difficulty setting" was "train reversing"
21:48:48 <supermop_Home_> hmm a lot of the CCs are not contiguous in the palette
21:49:25 <supermop_Home_> nielsm that picture is making the song play in my head
21:49:26 <_dp_> hm, what "economy" setting does there? is that smooth economy?
21:50:26 <nielsm> I think fluctuating economy means industries are more volatile and that recessions can occur
21:50:47 <nielsm> the alternative is "steady" iirc
21:51:31 <supermop_Home_> is there some doc that shows which palette colors belong to which cc?
21:51:37 <_dp_> yeah, "steady", but is there no such setting in openttd?
21:52:35 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ there are many mapping the indexes
21:52:44 <nielsm> anyway unpatched ttd does not have smooth economy
21:53:24 <andythenorth> but it's dec not hex indexes
21:54:27 <andythenorth> the company colour gradients in the squares are not 100% accurate, but eh
21:55:24 <_dp_> nielsm, looks like it's recession switch now
21:56:00 <frosch123> yes, it's the "recession disaster"
21:56:36 <frosch123> funnily recession is the only real disaster, while the "disasters" are rather jokes
21:57:18 <nielsm> I'm still glad that the "industry closes for absolutely no reason other than that the player is servicing it" disaster from TTO was taken out in TTD
21:58:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: are you recoloring in html?
21:58:05 <supermop_Home_> how is livery 3 different from livery 1 here:
21:58:09 <frosch123> or did you upload so many sprites?
22:00:44 <nielsm> implemented a grf reader in javascript
22:06:06 <_dp_> that sounds like something I could do :p
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22:10:28 <andythenorth> I didn't find a javascript library that can do bitmap wrangling :P
22:10:43 <andythenorth> if I converted the bitmaps to svg in python, I could do it in the html
22:10:59 <andythenorth> but I suspect pixels aren't an efficient use case for svg :)
22:11:13 <andythenorth> there's some raw encoding for images also?
22:11:48 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ livery 3 is unfinished, nice QA catch :)
22:19:17 <_dp_> hm, is the source of manual industries available anywhere atm?
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22:36:40 <b_jonas> "citizens celebrate" that I build a train, but the local authority doesn't seem to appreciate it as much
22:36:52 *** Speeder_ has joined #openttd
22:39:23 *** Speeder__ has joined #openttd
22:39:38 <_dp_> b_jonas, bomb the ungrateful assholes to stone age :p
22:57:13 <b_jonas> also... oops, after reworking my main steel hub, one of the mines now doesn't get engineering supplies. I have to fix this somehow
22:57:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJ2Gy
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23:19:08 <b_jonas> this steel mill produces so much steel that I still can't transport it. I built a third pair of tracks, but now the bottleback is the station at the metal workshop
23:44:42 <frosch123> no idea whether it builds, or whether it tries to detect hg versions :)
23:45:55 <_dp_> not going to build it anyway so whatever :P
continue to next day ⏵
