IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-07-26
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00:24:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
00:36:51 <b_jonas> having the train go on the left track is confusing when I make the signals, but sometimes I have to do it for space reasons, like in this tight complicated station
00:43:30 <b_jonas> hmm, I'm making this big steel mill station uglier, but it will work better
00:47:16 <b_jonas> oh great, I even found a bug in my previous setup
00:55:56 <b_jonas> ok, now I'm definitely going for mad science value, as opposed to efficiency only
00:59:56 <Timberwolf> CB36 not being called on station visits for trains is annoying :(
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01:38:36 <b_jonas> hmm, are my trains too weak? should I put a double engine?
01:39:12 <b_jonas> or maybe they're just slowing down because there's a temporary jam because I rebuild much of the station
02:18:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jostephd commented on pull request #8278: Feature: decitiles/day velocity unit https://git.io/JJR83
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08:26:40 <andythenorth> Timberwolf the problem is calling it on station visit in combination with changing length
08:26:46 <andythenorth> tends to have unwanted results
08:27:09 <andythenorth> it was specifically banned because I specifically did that
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09:40:01 <_dp_> is there a way to do eyecandy powerlines and skilifts with newgrf?
09:40:07 <_dp_> that can actually go over roads and stuff
09:52:06 <_dp_> wonder if I can make them road types...
09:56:17 <nielsm> can't you at least make an object that can be placed on a tile southeast/southwest of the road and just overlap it visually?
09:56:37 <nielsm> although it's more work to build
09:56:48 <nielsm> maybe it breaks the sprite sorter, not sure
10:07:24 <_dp_> nielsm, that still means I need a pole every other tile
10:08:18 <_dp_> and, yeah, it's questionable for sprite sorter
10:09:03 <_dp_> though there are power lines that seem to work that way
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10:09:47 <_dp_> but poles are an issue, I want it to still be playable
10:11:25 <nielsm> hence also frosch's comment yesterday that objects need a way to be drag-buildable and such
10:11:57 <_dp_> nielsm, well, yeah, but I don't particularly care about that
10:12:07 <_dp_> they need to be useful in a first place :p
10:13:38 <_dp_> so far their only use is to allow openttd to be used as a graphics editor :p
10:18:29 <andythenorth> I used them once or twice
10:18:37 <andythenorth> I use them because station tiles can't build on corner slopes
10:22:04 <_dp_> how does nrt handle crossroads? does it store both types of road on a tile?
10:24:17 <nielsm> I think it can just store one roadtype and one tramtype per tile
10:24:28 <nielsm> so if it's a tramway crossing a road then it works
10:24:42 <nielsm> if it's two incompatible roads with incompatible tramtypes then it can't work
10:25:10 <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, I'm already thinking of doing power lines as a tram type...
10:25:25 <_dp_> will probably work if there are no real trams...
10:26:18 <_dp_> haha, make both tram and road type power lines and add some server shenanigans to switch on a fly xD
10:26:20 * andythenorth just invented a stupid economy
10:26:24 <andythenorth> railroad economy
10:26:35 <andythenorth> train factory -> new trains -> train depot
10:26:42 <andythenorth> train depot -> old trains -> scrapyard
10:27:01 <andythenorth> quarry -> ballast -> engineering depot
10:27:02 <Wolf01> Money -> trains, you deliver train parts and get paid in trains
10:27:13 <andythenorth> engineering depot -> scrap rails -> scrapyard
10:27:46 <andythenorth> has anyone made Train Whack 2 yet?
10:28:46 <Wolf01> What is the highscore?
10:29:04 <Wolf01> I just got: You scored 883760! Snowplough bonus: 2 = 4x score multiplier
10:29:28 <andythenorth> I scored over 1m yesterday, 3 snowploughs
10:29:33 <andythenorth> frosch got over 1m also
10:29:44 <andythenorth> snowploughs are OP, someone should nerf them
10:29:54 <Wolf01> With random or same type? Same type has sensible lower scores
10:30:14 <andythenorth> I didn't do maths, but I think same type has more chance of 3 snowploughs
10:30:36 <andythenorth> also boring mode should get more snowploughs
10:30:51 <andythenorth> hmm maybe trains need more details in the gameplay
10:31:20 <andythenorth> IRL in UK there is: air brake vs vacuum brake, steam heat vs. electric heat, axle load, brake force
10:31:29 <andythenorth> all of which affect engine choice
10:31:44 <andythenorth> this is important for 32px trains?
10:31:55 <andythenorth> maybe Train Whack should use those things :P
10:32:01 <Wolf01> I'm getting a lot of 6 metro engines in the same consist
10:34:10 <Wolf01> You should make a clicker game
10:35:39 <andythenorth> one of my kids plays Crossy Road
10:35:51 <andythenorth> which is like a voxel version of the 1984 edition
10:37:14 <andythenorth> I never played Frogger, we had Hog! on the BBC which was a hedgehog not a frog and trains not logs
10:49:56 <Wolf01> Will my touch-screen-with-windows finish to install the updates instead of doing 60%, 15%, 20%, 90%, 35%, 100%, 20%?
10:50:57 * _dp_ remembers some printer drivers where progress bar went to 99% then smoothly back to 0 before failing with an error
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18:13:31 <andythenorth> so did reddit find TW yet?
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18:51:17 <andythenorth> do we know if what var 43 does with train-type colours, vehicle group colours?
18:52:35 <andythenorth> v->grf_cache.company_information = GetCompanyInfo(v->owner, LiveryHelper(v->engine_type, v));
18:55:19 <nielsm> hm wait, can you make a vehicle that drives faster if you paint it red?
18:55:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: the train can only read its own colour
18:56:35 <frosch123> it specifically ignores client settings for drawing company colours, to not desync
18:57:10 <frosch123> nielsm: also, pineapple trains use the company colour to select different sprites
18:57:11 <andythenorth> that means I can do a few silly livery tricks
18:57:16 <andythenorth> yes I'm going to do that
18:57:31 <frosch123> somehow pikka drew colored 32bpp trains, doing the recoloring in the sprite
18:57:39 <andythenorth> pikka is madder than me even
18:57:47 <andythenorth> although none as mad as V4530000
18:57:50 <andythenorth> also I love features that don't require newgrf spec change :)
18:58:08 <nielsm> have only one engine per generation, the color you paint it determines the stats
18:58:25 <andythenorth> nielsm I *almost* adopted that idea
18:58:49 <andythenorth> with vehicle group liveries, colours really could be 'liveries' :P
18:59:14 <nielsm> that would be wonderfully opaque gameplay mechanics
19:08:51 <nielsm> more ideas for opaque mechanics when andy comes back: one industry does everything, but only one thing at a time, it resets which cargo it produces and consumes on the monthly production change depending on which cargo is delivered next
19:10:13 <nielsm> and changing production takes a while to ramp up
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19:14:30 <andythenorth> will I break the 'No Garratt' rule for Horse?
19:21:05 <frosch123> there was an ancient latinamerican train set
19:21:27 <frosch123> articulated vehicles didn't quite work, so you were supposed to build and arrange them manually
19:21:42 <frosch123> but i did not know that, and wondered what those weird vehicles were
19:24:09 *** b_jonas_ is now known as b_jonas
19:25:22 <Wolf01> Aahahh boring mode is fantastic
19:25:42 <b_jonas> I should make it even more mad sciencey by having tunnels of tracks coming out of a station go under another station
19:25:45 <frosch123> i tried boring mode, to check whether i can get more snowploughs
19:25:57 <frosch123> but only got one, three times in 100 games
19:26:31 <frosch123> hmm, no, 200 games, 100 with same rail, 100 with mixed
19:27:35 <Wolf01> I just got 2 snopwploughs and a bunch of hoppers, no engine XD
19:27:37 <frosch123> i was hoping for 8 snowploughs or so :p
19:28:03 <frosch123> so, 1M points is still pretty hard to get
19:30:22 <frosch123> 300k with 1 snowplough, i guess that's terrible :p
19:30:40 <b_jonas> if it's too bad, I might built it back to the original layout though
19:31:23 <frosch123> wow, you got 1M in boring mode
19:31:27 <frosch123> i thought that's impossible
19:31:33 <_dp_> boring seems better actually
19:32:46 <frosch123> i had the impression < 200k is normal in boring mode
19:33:36 <frosch123> hmm, ok, it's diferent now
19:33:49 <frosch123> maybe i also had boring tracks on
19:34:35 <frosch123> the torpedo car is pretty long
19:34:38 <frosch123> i got a line wrap :p
19:36:11 <b_jonas> "can you make a vehicle that drives faster if you paint it red?" lol
19:36:29 <frosch123> b_jonas: you never played with nuts, did you?
19:36:43 <andythenorth> b_jonas which FIRS economy is that? :)
19:36:45 <b_jonas> you could probably make a fake "red paint" engine that is displayed as the normal engine and carriages painted red and makes the train faster
19:36:52 <frosch123> nuts has a category of vehicles, where the engines have moods
19:37:00 <andythenorth> frosch123 I should store a game counter in a cookie
19:37:00 <frosch123> and change their stats when they are in good or bad mood
19:37:21 <andythenorth> if it's a session cookie, you don't need to consent \o/
19:37:41 <andythenorth> wow did V actually do that?
19:37:49 <andythenorth> I have considered troll engines before, with changeable stats
19:37:57 <andythenorth> but V actually did it
19:38:10 <b_jonas> andythenorth: FIRS temperate basic
19:38:51 <b_jonas> can you make anisotropic trains, which are faster when going north than south?
19:40:13 <frosch123> it would be a terrible score without the snowplughs
19:40:24 <frosch123> 3 snowploughs should be 2M
19:41:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01 I think that beat me
19:41:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: the MEOW class is more useful gameplay-wise though
19:42:10 <andythenorth> "Rainbow SLUG is just a visual upgrade of the normal SLUGs, causing them to be much more awesome."
19:42:52 <andythenorth> how does V have the ships eat the cargo?
19:43:06 <andythenorth> _dp_ web developer tools? o_O
19:44:02 <_dp_> andythenorth, huh? why would I wdt just a 2mil :P
19:44:04 <b_jonas> andythenorth: this is the first train I play with FIRS, so I wanted basic. and I think my second and third games will be basic too. steeltown is crazy.
19:44:17 <andythenorth> _dp_ cheating is better when more plausible :)
19:44:45 <andythenorth> b_jonas fair, Steeltown is even more crazy in v4 (in development)
19:44:54 <andythenorth> it takes me about 60 years to connect the chains
19:45:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: i have no idea how V made vehicles eat cargo
19:45:39 <andythenorth> cannot think of any way to do that, except in depot
19:45:51 <b_jonas> this one still only has a steel network, and the steel line still doesn't work well, I'm trying to see what I have to change after it goes to equilibrium after this reconstruction, I might need the stronger engine or two engines
19:46:25 <Timberwolf> 60? My Trains test game is in 1961 and I only just got to the point of vehicle bodies.
19:47:07 <andythenorth> it's almost not fun :P
19:47:12 <b_jonas> does FIRS steeltown give some kind of bonus to your vehicles as the prize at the end?
19:47:27 <andythenorth> unfortunately no
19:47:30 <b_jonas> like, if you make the industries construct vehicles, you get better vehicles or something
19:47:45 <andythenorth> all you get is a slight sense of 'wtf did I do all that for?' :)
19:48:00 <andythenorth> currently vehicles do nothing, I don't even bother transporting them
19:48:23 <Timberwolf> "to test that I didn't fuck up the sprites for the advanced cargo types"
19:48:25 <b_jonas> better rail type if they build railway tracks
19:49:00 <b_jonas> Timberwolf: in what year did you start the game that's in 1961?
19:49:04 <b_jonas> I started this one in 1950
19:49:06 <andythenorth> I might just deliver them to scrap yards :P
19:50:46 <andythenorth> frosch123 submit a patch :)
19:51:26 <Timberwolf> I'd have started earlier but the lazy idiot who authored tge train set I'm using didn't include any locos before about 1899 or so.
19:51:46 <andythenorth> I just rejected moving the Iron Horse start date to 1900
19:51:55 <andythenorth> but I considered it, 1860 is silly
19:52:19 <andythenorth> how is the train set going?
19:52:23 <frosch123> Wolf01: waiting for the next dlc?
19:52:29 <Timberwolf> Playtesting, mainly.
19:52:58 <Timberwolf> I didn't screw too much up but I did enough silly things a full test game was a good idea.
19:53:43 <Timberwolf> "oh yes, this is why everyone else includes mail versions of their passenger carriages" type stuff.
19:53:56 <Wolf01> <frosch123> Wolf01: waiting for the next dlc? <- yes
19:54:10 <andythenorth> there are so many things in Horse like that
19:54:17 <andythenorth> "I know better than other authors"
19:54:25 <andythenorth> then I play-test and end up making similar decisions
19:54:48 <andythenorth> the way refits work drives a lot of set design choice
19:56:33 <Timberwolf> The hardest thing about going back to 1800s is the 1800-start people are really vocal :p
19:57:50 <Timberwolf> Pretty sure it'd be quicker to get the right stats for a pre-1850 set by just releasing with random stats and waiting for everyone to correct you.
20:00:55 <b_jonas> ok, these definitely don't have enough power. I'll replace the engines.
20:01:01 <Timberwolf> Different play styles I know, but with Road Vehicles there was a fair bit of, "I want vehicles it's impossible to make a profit with, because realistic stats". (I think the one time I played a 1700s start, ships are so OP compared to other vehicles your boats subsidise everything)
20:02:38 <andythenorth> I tried the early play stuff, DanMacK was very encouraging about including it in Horse and Hog
20:02:43 <andythenorth> but I just can't get on with it
20:03:06 <andythenorth> I think it needs boxing off with a specific industry grf designed for it
20:03:16 <b_jonas> I'll need two engines
20:03:24 <Timberwolf> My biggest problem is I play smaller maps, so I've connected everything by 1870.
20:03:47 <andythenorth> frosch123 how plausible is a link from each vehicle to a 'details' web page? Were you trolling me when you suggested it? :)
20:04:06 <Timberwolf> Then it's like, "so I guess I'll just upgrade engines for the next 180 years?"
20:05:47 <frosch123> andythenorth: no, we already discussed that 10 years ago, when george wanted to include historical photos in the purchase list's extra info
20:06:12 <andythenorth> we're not worried about link rot, domain parking scams etc?
20:06:21 <frosch123> the realism freaks always wanted to add backstories, assuming that anyone would read them
20:06:25 <andythenorth> or we could file it under "don't care"
20:06:42 <andythenorth> I really like the pikka wiki stuff, I found it added to the game fun for me
20:06:46 <frosch123> there's already an url in the grf description
20:06:51 <andythenorth> and V's docs are good
20:07:07 <_dp_> just embed the web browser already :p
20:07:13 <frosch123> the idea to add a short-url service to bananas, is new though
20:07:27 <frosch123> _dp_: yes, we should switch to qt based gui
20:07:40 <andythenorth> they're not really designed yet, but eh
20:07:53 <andythenorth> this isn't a big spec change, just a static property?
20:08:14 <andythenorth> or do we abstract it all and have bananas sort it out on upload?
20:08:20 <_dp_> qt or not but I'm really missing images and stuff in gs messages
20:08:38 * andythenorth BIAB, time for dinner \o/
20:13:26 <b_jonas> I don't care about realism for this game, except in as much as it helps understand the game mechanics
20:14:00 <b_jonas> and yes, I want strong fast trains, not horses, and I want diagonal bridges and diagonal tunnels, <s>and a pony</s> :)
20:16:02 <b_jonas> I'm replacing all the engines on these 26 trains, but I'll want to upgrade it to maglev 4 in-game years from now anyway
20:19:30 <b_jonas> and I'm not even sure if the two engines actually helps
20:20:48 <b_jonas> hmm, I'll have to improve this station exit too
20:21:00 <b_jonas> I think I'll look up how I did the station exit in my previous game, because that worked well
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22:04:47 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: FLHerne was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 6 days, 5 hours, 14 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <FLHerne> I'm not sure that's true
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