IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-06-28
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00:43:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8246: Fix 887b912af: MinGW requires an extra link flag with _FORTIFY_SOURCE https://git.io/JJeQr
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00:59:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8246: Fix 887b912af: MinGW requires an extra link flag with _FORTIFY_SOURCE https://git.io/JJeQj
01:00:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8244: Fix #8216: Don't show floating text on autoreplace if cost is 0 https://git.io/JJez0
01:00:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8216: It is possible to get a "Cost: £0" float from autoreplace. https://git.io/Jf9VX
01:02:09 <FLHerne> LordAro: andy will be pleased :-)
01:18:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8246: Fix 887b912af: MinGW requires an extra link flag with _FORTIFY_SOURCE https://git.io/JJeQr
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01:34:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on issue #8162: Converting town-owned road returns ambiguous/unhelpful error message https://git.io/Jfu9j
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05:06:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JJepq
06:01:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz closed pull request #8214: WIP: Refactor gfx engine's dirty block system https://git.io/JfS3n
06:01:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8214: WIP: Refactor gfx engine's dirty block system https://git.io/JJeh8
08:32:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8236: Fix #7772: Show destination on mouseover when vehicle stopped (and not in depot) https://git.io/JJvvh
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09:26:12 <TrueBrain> hello andythenorth :)
09:28:17 <TrueBrain> hmm .. so only a few more services to move from self-managed to AWS .. mostly maser-server, eints and wiki .. all other sites are mostly simple redirects. That is good :)
09:28:33 <TrueBrain> and a ton of things like: svn-archive, flyspray, etc .. do we want to keep them available ..
09:28:53 <TrueBrain> owh, and security.openttd.org needs its own static website ofc .. but that should be easy .. clone www.openttd.org, and modify it a tiny bit
09:29:19 <TrueBrain> the most difficult one is going to be email
09:34:32 <TrueBrain> pretty expensive tbh .. like all others
09:35:14 <andythenorth> £4 / user / month
09:35:28 <andythenorth> lots of things we don't need
09:36:29 <andythenorth> hmm all the 'buy it done' email hosts seem to be $ / user / month
09:37:00 <TrueBrain> I think I can get a single o365 exchange online plan, add openttd.org to it, and add forwards on it
09:37:08 <TrueBrain> I will have to test that out tbh
09:37:50 <TrueBrain> the only issue with that is, that emailing FROM an openttd.org account is difficult (SPF and all)
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09:45:52 <dP> Yandex.Mail for domain seems to still be free
09:46:01 <andythenorth> how much email needs to be sent? :)
09:47:38 <TrueBrain> dP: never heard of Yandex; any good?
09:48:01 <dP> TrueBrain, it's basically a russian google
09:48:12 <TrueBrain> that .. doesn't sound like a good solution :P
09:48:50 <nielsm> yandex mail has a non-zero risk of being blocked arbitrarily
09:49:03 <nielsm> at least a few years ago it was a very common source of spam
09:49:51 <dP> TrueBrain, it's a big company with good products, just, well, russian :p
09:50:53 <TrueBrain> anyway, I can only find you can create a single account; we would need multiple on the same domain
09:51:14 <andythenorth> Rackspace have $2 / user
09:51:25 <andythenorth> you can do it with Mailgun, but it's not really what Mailgun is for
09:51:53 <andythenorth> time vs. money :P
09:55:33 <nielsm> www.mxhotel.dk is rather cheap mail hosting, the provider is reliable
09:55:44 <nielsm> I'm not sure they have terms in english though
09:56:01 <nielsm> I know one of the server techs at the company tho
09:56:58 <TrueBrain> that website doesn't look inviting :D
09:57:54 <nielsm> I can maybe ask if they want to sponsor too... how many addresses is needed?
09:57:56 <TrueBrain> mainly, I would like to solve three things: 1) move mail somewhere we don't have to maintain it, 2) allow a developer to send mail on behave of <hisname>@openttd.org and info@openttd.org, 3) have a decent spam protection
09:58:22 <TrueBrain> as many developers there are .. which changes over time :)
09:58:46 <TrueBrain> most mail providers only have that you can make 1 account, and not administrator a domain of accounts
09:59:07 <andythenorth> then we can make spreadsheets too
09:59:13 <andythenorth> for all of our monthly meetings
09:59:27 <TrueBrain> well, cost is a factor,for some silly reason :P
09:59:33 <andythenorth> and we could do video calls, using whichever version of Hangouts doesn't work this month
09:59:42 <nielsm> yeah mxhotel.dk pricing is you can have as many addresses/aliases per domain as you want, but pay 0.05 DKK/day per
10:00:10 <TrueBrain> I guess 3) is the biggest question with a random mail hoster ;)
10:00:15 * andythenorth should do something useful, instead of talking nonsense
10:00:29 <TrueBrain> this is what I like about gmail / microsoft365, etc .. their hive-anti-spam is just better :P
10:00:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: same thing different subject :P
10:01:29 <TrueBrain> nielsm: but yeah, as long as developers can have their own mailbox with their own password, I am what-ever :)
10:02:10 <nielsm> e.g 15 addresses with 1000 MB shared storage space would be around €80/year
10:02:51 <TrueBrain> well, that would be the cheapest so far :P
10:03:33 <TrueBrain> I do not speak russian, it turns out
10:04:04 <dP> TrueBrain, does it show link in russian? there is a language switch in the bottom
10:04:20 <TrueBrain> wow, that is hidden :P
10:04:46 <dP> I'm more surprised it didn't link english version
10:04:57 <TrueBrain> silly cookie-based language switches or something
10:14:32 <TrueBrain> meh; WSL2 doesn't forward UDP it seems .. sad
10:17:41 <Wolf01> I'm still waiting for an integrated x server so I don't need to use vcxsrv
10:18:29 <TrueBrain> but it is so much faster .... holy crap
10:20:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on issue #8162: Converting town-owned road returns ambiguous/unhelpful error message https://git.io/Jfu9j
10:22:44 <TrueBrain> lol @ dedicated server .. I didn't compile zlib, because, fuck zlib
10:22:50 <TrueBrain> but ... now I cannot use the dedicated server
10:22:52 <TrueBrain> despite me using -g
10:23:01 <TrueBrain> dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
10:23:01 <TrueBrain> Internal error: Loader for 'zlib' is not available.
10:23:07 <TrueBrain> but but .. I DONT WANT YOU TO LOAD ANYTHING :(
10:23:37 <TrueBrain> also no clue what it is trying to load tbh :P
10:23:38 <dP> TrueBrain, yeah, it may still want to load a titlegame... few times...
10:23:54 <TrueBrain> there is no titlegame in my folder ..
10:24:31 <TrueBrain> ah, it was in another folder
10:24:34 <TrueBrain> removing it doesn't work either
10:24:40 <LordAro> mm, it still uses the titlegame, even with -g
10:24:43 <TrueBrain> dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed
10:24:47 <TrueBrain> it is a bug, I would say :)
10:27:26 <Wolf01> Btw WSL2 will be installed with 2004 or?
10:28:28 <nielsm> create your own titlegame, uncompressed
10:28:47 <TrueBrain> nielsm: which is a bit of a chicken/egg issue :D
10:28:53 <TrueBrain> to create a titlegame, I need to be able to start the game ;)
10:30:12 <TrueBrain> but I simply fixed it by installing zlib1g-dev ..
10:30:27 <TrueBrain> was just a bit weird, that it doesn't stop compiling when you don't have it, but absolutely refuses to run in any shape or form without it :D
10:31:19 <nielsm> at least non-dedicated will start even with title game load fails, it just makes an empty 64x64 flat map
10:31:32 <TrueBrain> a dedicated server should do that too! :o
10:31:49 <TrueBrain> it possibly does, and that I fucked up something else btw
10:31:50 <nielsm> I actually thought dedicated always started a new game on startup too
10:31:54 <dP> dedicated shouldn't even try loading titlegame :p
10:31:59 <nielsm> never even attempting to load the title game
10:32:05 <TrueBrain> that I know for sure, it does :)
10:32:38 <TrueBrain> anyway, I have a dedicated server running now that advertises itself to my new masterserver .. I am all happy :)
10:56:17 <TrueBrain> Server 0x5ef85b0bf10b00 with 127.0.0.1:3979 online (0 players)
10:56:17 <TrueBrain> Server 0x5ef85b0bf10b00 with ::1:3979 online (0 players)
10:56:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton opened pull request #8247: Change #8162: Conversion of Town Road, Impr. Error https://git.io/JJvUx
11:14:17 <dP> I almost want to make my own master server
11:16:16 <dP> kind of have all the code for it already anyway, just needs to be put together xD
11:16:48 <TrueBrain> seems you are a bit late to that party ;)
11:17:30 <TrueBrain> I already put all the code together ;) It just needs some logic to work properly now :)
11:17:31 <dP> TrueBrain, does your master server has anti-spam? :p
11:17:33 <TrueBrain> well, it mostly does already ;)
11:17:39 <TrueBrain> does it need anti-spam? :)
11:19:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8247: Change #8162: Conversion of Town Road, Impr. Error https://git.io/JJvTB
11:20:04 <TrueBrain> first I hear about this ... why did nobody tell me?
11:20:19 <LordAro> "GetNameOfOwner" is a poorly named function...
11:20:20 <TrueBrain> who got in a competition there ..
11:21:35 <TrueBrain> I was thinking the same; but the elitegameservers.net is annoying, as it is not from a single IP :P
11:22:08 <dP> TrueBrain, just filter by a substring :p
11:22:08 <TrueBrain> I am still surprised how many OpenTTD server there are :P
11:22:38 <TrueBrain> current server is in C++ .. getting that deployed will take more effort I consider worth it ;)
11:22:54 <LordAro> will need domain blocking then, i guess
11:23:55 <TrueBrain> cloudflare? What are you looking up there?
11:24:23 <TrueBrain> ugh, these IPs are from all over the place
11:24:33 <LordAro> dig elitegameservers.net -> 104.26.6.166 -> whois -> cloudflaire
11:24:38 <LordAro> though that could just be the website
11:24:43 <TrueBrain> yeah .... but that is not the IPs I was talking about :)
11:24:49 <TrueBrain> not sure what you wanted to do with that lookup :)
11:24:54 <LordAro> even their website has 3 separate A records
11:25:13 <TrueBrain> they have servers at LeaseWeb, OVH-uk, OVH-de
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11:25:30 <TrueBrain> ugh, why do people insist in being scum
11:25:43 <TrueBrain> mostly I am annoyed nobody told me about this :P
11:26:28 <TrueBrain> and I am a bit amazed someone took the effort to setup servers (which consumes RAM) to counter this
11:26:48 <dP> well, it was discussed in a chat several times already
11:26:52 <TrueBrain> dP: what were your plans to counter this?
11:27:15 <TrueBrain> dP: I am not that kind of person that reads the backlog :P If I am not highlighted, it could not possibly have been important :D
11:27:59 <dP> TrueBrain, for master server I was more thinking of a way to get all servers it one list so that client doesn't have to query them
11:28:17 <dP> TrueBrain, and for spam I guess adding a flag there won't be a problem
11:28:32 <dP> or even an uint8 category and filter in the client
11:28:44 <dP> with smth like "not spam" as default
11:29:02 <TrueBrain> manually marking things as spam is not really a battle I am willing to fight :P
11:29:08 <dP> like all servers/not spam/big communities
11:29:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvT1
11:29:55 <TrueBrain> is the OpenTTD protocol patch in the game already? That openttd:// allows you to join a game? :D
11:30:25 <dP> TrueBrain, idk, manually blacklisting one substring in 15 years doesn't sound that bad :p
11:30:29 <TrueBrain> dP: and you are talking about revamping the master-server protocol, which is a completely different thing ;)
11:30:41 <TrueBrain> dP: people like this will find a way around it in minutes
11:31:11 <dP> TrueBrain, they didn't even bother to update servers to 1.10.2 :p
11:31:54 <dP> TrueBrain, I was thinking of just adding a separate tcp request somewhere instead of tinkering with protocol
11:32:29 <TrueBrain> that is still changing the protocol ;)
11:33:04 <TrueBrain> but yeah, the biggest bottleneck is the UDP part of this protocol
11:33:16 <TrueBrain> huge limitation on what is possible :)
11:33:23 <dP> TrueBrain, depends on what you consider to be a protocol
11:33:35 <TrueBrain> the master-server protocol in general ;)
11:33:38 <TrueBrain> just the bigger picture
11:33:40 <dP> TrueBrain, actually, even httping a file from the website will do the job
11:33:41 <TrueBrain> UDP is just an implementation detail ;)
11:34:44 <dP> TrueBrain, btw, I'm not saying it's a good solution for official master server
11:35:03 <TrueBrain> and I am not saying it is not :P
11:35:21 <TrueBrain> when OpenTTD was smaller, this was fine
11:35:28 <TrueBrain> but the amount of UDP traffic needed these days, is just a bit insane
11:35:35 <TrueBrain> and you see that it is not always working as it should
11:36:00 <TrueBrain> but, with the content-server too, we already established that switching to HTTPS would be the best approach
11:36:05 <TrueBrain> sadly .... OpenTTD has no S support :(
11:37:00 <TrueBrain> one of my main problems with the current implementation: the idea was to know the server-owner had setup his firewall correctly, that a server advertised could also be joined. but .. it only checks UDP
11:37:05 <LordAro> TrueBrain: the server would have to support it first, i would think?
11:37:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: that silly enough is not the difficult part. Doing HTTPS in a client cross-platform, kinda is
11:37:43 <nielsm> I still hold we should make a brand new network game protocol
11:38:06 <nielsm> one that can easier nat-punch and can support encryption and authentication
11:38:40 <TrueBrain> nielsm: well, that doesn't really need a new game protocol, but it does need some things around that
11:38:47 <LordAro> i don't feel inventing our own (again) is the solution there :p
11:38:51 <TrueBrain> for example, NAT punching can be done with a simple extension
11:39:12 <TrueBrain> encryption too is a layer on top
11:39:33 <nielsm> TCP NAT punching is difficult and whether it can work at all depends on all the layers of routing between both ends
11:39:33 <TrueBrain> but I might have taken the "network game protocol" too narrow :D
11:39:37 <dP> TrueBrain, master server already queries the server so it's even more redundant for a client
11:39:53 <TrueBrain> dP: sorry? What do you mean? (what is it referring to)
11:40:01 <dP> TrueBrain, but what I was thinking is just to bootstrap the list from website and leave all the udp stuff intact
11:40:22 <dP> TrueBrain, "that a server advertised could also be joined. but .. it only checks UDP"
11:40:24 <TrueBrain> dP: yeah, that is a nice extension that would work fine tbh
11:40:54 <TrueBrain> the client querries the servers not to check if they are online, but because the master-server doesn;t have enough room in UDP packets to tell anything about the server :)
11:41:57 <andythenorth> LordAro spnda's roadstops look interesting
11:42:11 <andythenorth> I have not tried them, I got burnt out on newgrf spec stuff
11:42:18 <andythenorth> but could be nice :)
11:43:02 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I guess there are several things to figure out on network level .. how clients talk to a central authority, how clients talk to servers, and how servers talk to a central authority. Making those use the same transport, would be nice :D
11:43:02 <LordAro> andythenorth: i can do code review, but i don't really feel qualified to review the content
11:43:31 <dP> TrueBrain, then I don't see why you say checking server is a problem, you can even join it for real from the master server
11:43:36 <TrueBrain> but it is a huge change :P
11:43:59 <TrueBrain> checking server is a problem?
11:44:05 <TrueBrain> sorry, I am lost in context :D
11:46:11 <TrueBrain> dP: not sure if this is what you meant, but: currently the MSU (Master Server Updater) only checks if the UDP is working on a server, not the TCP
11:46:24 <TrueBrain> which always annoyed me, as it doesn't really show the firewalls are setup correctly
11:46:32 <TrueBrain> as the game protocol uses TCP, not UDP ..
11:47:01 <dP> TrueBrain, ah, that's what you meant
11:47:08 <TrueBrain> but, in general, people have more issues opening the UDP, so .. if the UDP works, it is very likely the TCP works too :D
11:47:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
11:47:44 <TrueBrain> hihi, that still works, funny
11:47:56 <dP> TrueBrain, and if master server was capable of sending server info it wouldn't even need udp :p
11:48:30 <TrueBrain> the reason the MSU is UDP, is because otherwise you can very easily DoS the MSU
11:48:53 <nielsm> and I still think QUIC looks very promising as a protocol basis
11:49:02 <TrueBrain> QUIC is really nice
11:49:07 <TrueBrain> but also complex :D
11:49:12 <nielsm> the main issue last I looked was a lack of libraries that are easy to integrate
11:49:21 <LordAro> deciding factor will be cross platform support, i would think
11:49:33 <TrueBrain> nielsm: it is also really new ;)
11:49:41 <TrueBrain> nginx just came .. last week? with their QUIC implementation
11:51:37 <TrueBrain> and it would be nice if OpenTTD would have a centralized authority, as in: you can register your username somewhere, and on servers that are connected to that network, you always know that name is yours
11:51:51 <LordAro> lots of very significant TODOs remaining there though
11:52:26 <nielsm> yes just a way for a client to prove the player's identity to a server would be massive
11:52:51 <TrueBrain> I once wrote a draft how to do that .. but implementing it in the current codebase is a pita :P
11:53:04 <TrueBrain> regarding QUIC: OpenTTD used to be on the front of new technology
11:53:15 <TrueBrain> in 2007 OpenTTD was fully (and natively) IPv6
11:53:22 <TrueBrain> in 2007 ... let that sink in :P
11:53:33 <TrueBrain> so .. picking up QUIC would do that justice :)
11:53:52 <nielsm> besides using QUIC would only be ottd-ottd and ottd-master server connections
11:53:55 <nielsm> no need to interoperate
11:54:12 <nielsm> if everything uses the same library for it that's not a concern
11:54:25 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't think it would be unreasonable to wait until openssl actually supports it properly first
11:54:37 <TrueBrain> LordAro: live some :)
11:55:34 <dP> or at least asking more clearly :p
11:57:59 <TrueBrain> nielsm: adding to the list: ottd-content :)
11:58:48 <TrueBrain> this is not a new topic :D
11:59:52 <TrueBrain> LordAro: in reality, if someone would start with this work now, it will take, what, at least 6 months to get it to a working state? Plenty of time for openssl to catch up ;)
12:00:35 <TrueBrain> dP: btw, the general team in these documents is that I would like to allow custom communities to run this software too, without too much hazzle
12:02:06 <TrueBrain> but, my first goal remains: migrate everything to AWS :D
12:02:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:04:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:07:16 <dP> TrueBrain, nice ideas in that brain dump :)
12:07:56 <dP> TrueBrain, password system has some benefits though, for example Master Hellish did a stream where he put server password in the stream description and chat
12:08:10 <dP> so random strangers can't join but everyone from his stream can easily
12:08:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:09:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:09:40 <TrueBrain> dP: it is more about the ingame password; not so much about not supporting such flows
12:10:00 <TrueBrain> I would rather have a share-link thingy for those things
12:10:16 <TrueBrain> which gives you a valid token to join the server
12:10:39 <dP> TrueBrain, yeah, that will work
12:10:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:11:00 <nielsm> TrueBrain: have you considered what if we instead moved the content service to be all standard HTTP and just call a "system" HTTP library for it?
12:11:01 <dP> TrueBrain, once link support is added to openttd that is :p
12:11:14 <nielsm> libcurl or WinHTTP or whatever
12:12:00 <TrueBrain> nielsm: what do you mean exactly?
12:12:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:12:50 <TrueBrain> @mute PR 8247 for 1 hour
12:12:53 <TrueBrain> why doesn't this work :(
12:12:54 <nielsm> instead of the slightly hacky HTTP and custom protocol combination used currently
12:13:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:14:10 <TrueBrain> nielsm: going full HTTPS (S being important) for the content-service would be awesome
12:14:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvIO
12:14:21 <TrueBrain> going full HTTP is possible .. slightly less ideal
12:14:27 <TrueBrain> this current implementation is just shit :P
12:14:38 <nielsm> I think that PR is being edited on the github web interface...
12:14:42 <TrueBrain> better even: allow clicking on bananas.openttd.org to install content
12:14:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:15:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:16:01 <TrueBrain> now I come to think of it, not sure if an ingame content service is that good; doing it via a website might be much more userfriendly
12:16:13 <TrueBrain> but either way, yes, doing it over HTTP only would be better
12:16:27 <TrueBrain> from a server-side perspective nothing changes, as we still want to support older clients ;)
12:16:36 <nielsm> the big advantage of in-game is detecting and auto-fetching dependencies for a savegame or server
12:16:44 <TrueBrain> you can still have that
12:16:49 <TrueBrain> nothing has to change there
12:16:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:16:54 <TrueBrain> just .. the UI part ;)
12:17:38 <TrueBrain> anyway, the content-service already has an HTTPS API, which should contain all the needed information to use HTTPS only for the ingame content service
12:17:52 <TrueBrain> so you can pick this up whenever you want :D
12:18:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:18:17 <nielsm> right now it's two clicks and not leaving the game at all, if you required the player to use a website for it you'd at the very least have the player being shunted out of the game into their browser and then have to figure out how to get back and when it's time to move back
12:19:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:19:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:19:48 <TrueBrain> nielsm: you need a link that brings you back to the client, yes, but that is possible these days
12:19:56 <TrueBrain> anyway, one doesn't have to exclude the other ..
12:20:06 <TrueBrain> just having an openttd:// and openttd-content:// support would be nice, I guess :)
12:20:17 <TrueBrain> would solve a few user-experience issues :D
12:20:37 <dP> it's nice to have content downloader for a save/server in the game, but for searching new mods website would be better
12:21:17 <nielsm> well right, a website catalog where the author can also provide pictures could be nice
12:21:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:21:45 <nielsm> one thing even most newgrf threads is missing IMO is just some basic screenshots showing the art
12:22:02 <TrueBrain> and an easy way to download it :D
12:22:12 <andythenorth> nielsm I am +1 to that
12:22:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:22:16 <andythenorth> there are various ideas
12:22:25 <andythenorth> could be manual upload
12:22:25 <TrueBrain> I had to download OpenGFX for my dedicated server ... I will not say how much time it took for me to find the right folder to put it in etc
12:22:30 <andythenorth> or art in action 14
12:23:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:23:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: in general, I think there are a lot of ideas around the networking part of OpenTTD .. guess a first step would be to write it down, and make it actionable for people to work on
12:23:28 <TrueBrain> to make clear what the pros and cons are, what the deps are, etc
12:23:35 <TrueBrain> I mean, if CMake can make it into OpenTTD ........ :D
12:23:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:23:55 <TrueBrain> poor guy, going off the languages one by one to remove a string ... I feel bad for him ..
12:24:28 <nielsm> maybe also starting out with some perceived problems with the current network implementation
12:24:50 <nielsm> and then address those with various potential solution
12:24:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:25:35 <TrueBrain> the list is not getting smaller, but it is getting more well defined :D
12:25:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:27:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:27:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:28:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:29:18 * dP just got the craziest idea ever - 3d print an openttd map and put it on a wall xD
12:29:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:29:44 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: I set up an analyzer for crash.dmp in php, still not attached to a DB and just reads the uploaded file, developed with my left foot, and maybe it doesn't even do what the real idea is
12:31:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:32:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:32:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:34:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:35:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> is hw committing every keypress or something? :p
12:36:46 <nielsm> using github's web editor editing one language file at a time
12:37:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:37:42 <nielsm> I kind of want to force him to learn how to clone the repo locally and squash all those cleanup commits
12:38:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:38:16 <Wolf01> dP: I'm still trying to set up the new entry level 3D printer, but I had that idea too
12:39:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
12:39:25 <dP> Wolf01, I got mine yesterday, already printing some upgrades for it xD
12:40:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvLy
12:41:02 <nielsm> gah stuck with an old problem again: I want to move part of commit B's changed over to commit A instead
12:41:50 <nielsm> unless I should just squash all of the tree toolbar changes into one
12:43:00 <dP> though now that I think of it, how do you even 3d print a 2d game? xD
12:43:46 <Wolf01> dP: I tried to print a calibration thing but it came out a shit, the base is good, the circles are not perfect, the walls are just a bunch of wires which disintegrate when touched instead of a solid, also the top horizontal surfaces are a lattice... maybe is the model, maybe the settings I used
12:47:17 <Wolf01> dP: which slicer are you using? I need to use Cura because the one they provided doesn't even load the blueprints from thingiverse
12:48:07 <dP> Wolf01, I'm using cura as well
12:48:26 <dP> Wolf01, I'm a complete newbie in 3d printing though, just happy mine worked out of the box
12:49:43 <Wolf01> Ahah, me too, I purchased a labists x1 because it was discounted and suggested for entry level
12:54:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvtm
12:54:19 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: using the web interface to delete a line from every language file
12:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> don't we have a script for that?
12:55:46 <LordAro> and not something you can use if you're only using the web interface :p
12:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean as in: tell him to not touch the langfiles (except english)
13:00:02 <LordAro> maybe eints would remove it?
13:00:09 <LordAro> regardless, too late now
13:01:39 <Wolf01> "Non-manifold edges are the edges of models that can only exist in the 3D space and not the physical world." Lol
13:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if eints does that, but it probably should
13:04:08 <LordAro> i know it "invalidates" other languages strings if the english changes
13:04:14 <LordAro> i don't know about removing entirely
13:04:24 <LordAro> would mean compile warnings though
13:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc webtranslator didn't do it
13:16:02 <Cursarion> how profoundly is the date of the world part of how the game works? I was looking at how it takes about two real time seconds for game world day to change and then wondering how large the scale on the map must be if you look at the vehicle speeds from that point of view. A train going 300 kph will go 7200 km in a day, but that train also moves only a few tiles in that time, so each tile must ...
13:16:08 <Cursarion> ... be hundreds of kilometers long, if not tens of hundreds. :P
13:16:33 <LordAro> Cursarion: try not to think about scale in OTTD too closely
13:18:07 <LordAro> all 4 transport types work at completely different scales
13:18:15 <Cursarion> then I started to wonder if it'd be possible to play the game in normal speed but just the world clock going slower? Would it break everything, or is the date just an arbitrary thing?
13:18:33 <LordAro> oh you have no idea how big that question is
13:18:40 <LordAro> you can search for "daylength"
13:20:05 <Cursarion> aren't there some sort of ticks internally?
13:20:31 <Wolf01> The only way to have an accurate simulation is to have a real time and real distances based one, and then fast forward it at a point you can't even see the vehicles
13:21:50 <LordAro> which as you found out, is approximately 2s
13:22:00 <b_jonas> and like five different cycles for different mechanics
13:22:43 <Cursarion> looks like someone's made a patch for that
13:23:17 <LordAro> they're all flawed in one way or another
13:26:25 <nielsm> see the issue with OTTD compared to TTD DOS?
13:26:34 <nielsm> (using the same baseset GRF file for all three)
13:28:29 <Wolf01> Shouldn't the position be randomized?
13:29:21 <Cursarion> LordAro: are the flaws severe? or just something that can be scaled with relatively simple maths?
13:29:27 <nielsm> but the second tree type in the UI is using the wrong sprite
13:30:47 <Wolf01> I know there are unused trees, I found it while I was playing with my tree placement patch
13:31:15 <Wolf01> Maybe OTTD select the available trees differently
13:31:28 <nielsm> nah the sprite used there is the first withering sprite for eighth type
13:31:45 <Wolf01> But it seem only for the UI
13:31:54 <Wolf01> The placed ones are fine
13:32:18 <Wolf01> Ha! It's the roadside tree
13:32:33 <andythenorth> Cursarion every daylength patch thread starts approximately "it can't be that hard"
13:32:43 <andythenorth> followed by "see I've got nearly all of it working"
13:32:52 <andythenorth> followed by "...[crickets]..."
13:33:34 <andythenorth> nielsm OTTD trees are weird :)
13:33:37 <andythenorth> I always turn them off :)
13:33:42 <andythenorth> they don't look right
13:33:47 <andythenorth> and they all disappear during the game
13:34:06 <nielsm> andythenorth: try opening the scenario editor with a flat blank map and just fast forward
13:34:11 <nielsm> it will get filled with trees
13:34:36 <andythenorth> so why does SE plant more, but actual game doesn't replace dead ones?
13:34:59 <andythenorth> is dying trees disabled in SE?
13:35:02 <Wolf01> It seem that pollution generated while playing withers them out... oh wait, that's Factorio
13:37:02 <Wolf01> I would like permanent trees and exact trees position in tiles, but still trees so you can build over them etc instead of using newobjects
13:37:44 <Wolf01> Was this a goal of NotTrees?
13:53:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8240: Fix #8221: Subtitle - No Bridge Type Given Size https://git.io/JJvqH
13:53:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8240: Fix #8221: Subtitle - No Bridge Type Given Size https://git.io/JJeso
13:53:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8221: No error message subtitle for if no bridge types available for target length < max bridge length https://git.io/JfQrI
14:10:28 <Cursarion> andythenorth: well, is it hard per se, or just lots of work?
14:11:36 <Cursarion> I can believe it's the latter, but dunno about the former, if it's something that makes sense
14:11:43 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: not sure about PHP these days :P But mainly what I would like that we have a GitHub Actions that if a user posts a crash.dmp, it replies with the content therein, instead of waiting for our human bot to come along :P Windows has tools for this etc, it just needs to be wrapped in a GitHub Actions in my opinion :)
14:15:02 <LordAro> TrueBrain: can you have a github action that runs on a new comment?
14:16:21 <LordAro> i wasn't expecting it
14:16:38 <TrueBrain> it is used to give bots actions, like /build or /deploy you see a lot
14:16:51 <TrueBrain> or /merge even happens a lot
14:17:00 <TrueBrain> lot of cool things you can do with it
14:17:06 <LordAro> i didn't realise they used the same actions system
14:17:20 <TrueBrain> GitHub Apps can do it too
14:17:21 <andythenorth> Cursarion all I'm reporting is how this usually goes :)
14:17:51 <andythenorth> Cursarion also you can just try it in JGR Patch Pack
14:18:04 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: yeah, I made it like 4 years ago :P
14:18:36 <TrueBrain> "Runs your workflow anytime when someone forks a repository, which triggers the fork event"
14:20:57 <Cursarion> andythenorth: ya, I'll prolly do that to see how it works
14:25:09 <milek7> apart from technical reasons, there's no consensus on how should daylength work
14:28:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8192: Change: Always generate API files at build time https://git.io/JJvmQ
14:29:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8196: Fix: Adjust .gitignore to CMake build system. https://git.io/JJvmF
14:31:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8207: Add: Cheat menu under land information menu and 'cheat' console command https://git.io/JJvmp
14:34:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJvYJ
14:35:11 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: well, codewise it is pretty easy, just use cdb and you are done. The tricky part in automating it, is knowing which symbol files to use. Which is fine if the crash.log is uploaded too. Otherwise it requires a bit more .. fiddling :D
14:38:25 <Wolf01> Yeah, I took the latter solution and got stuck :P
14:41:33 <TrueBrain> wow, my WSL2 consumes 12GB of RAM .. that is .. unneeded
14:47:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJvY0
14:47:41 <TrueBrain> turns out to be Linux Page Cache :D Fun :)
14:53:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8149: Fix #8131: small bridges also have pillars drawn https://git.io/JJvYa
14:54:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8149: Fix #8131: small bridges also have pillars drawn https://git.io/JfRkQ
14:54:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8131: Missing bounding boxes for bridge pillars of height 1 cause graphical glitches https://git.io/JfWqh
15:14:38 <FLHerne> Cursarion: The root problem is that there are various contradictions that are very hard to reconcile
15:15:26 <FLHerne> e.g. if you just make every day 5x longer, the industry monthly production occurs 5x less frequently, which unbalances the game
15:16:35 <FLHerne> But if you lie to industry newgrfs abot the date to maintain the same production, their info text (e.g. FIRS' "deliver <n units of x> per month") becomes incorrect
15:16:50 <nielsm> that's wrong, industry production happens on 256 ticks, not based on calendar
15:17:31 <FLHerne> nielsm: Well, it's definitely the effect of the current patch...
15:17:34 <nielsm> however yes the industry monthly production change check would have more ticks between, and the displayed "monthly production" would appear to be higher
15:18:12 <nielsm> if you just changed DAY_TICKS (or however it's called) to be 5x larger then you just get 5x as many ticks per month and per year
15:18:26 <nielsm> meaning things happen 5x more frequently in the same span of calendar time
15:18:27 <FLHerne> My explanation for *why* that happens is probably wrong
15:19:01 <Wolf01> The problem of all the approaches were that they want to change all the game paces, not only the real proble which is "I want to play with the current generation of vehicles for a longer time"
15:19:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8079: Add: [NewGRF] Industry behaviour flag to override second cargo produc… https://git.io/JJvOY
15:19:40 <LordAro> maybe someone should write this down
15:20:36 <Wolf01> For example I usually play with fast forward and zoomed out and slow down only for building
15:20:42 <nielsm> the game is balanced (no stop talking about "the game is not balanced because it's too easy/too hard") around various things happening at various frequencies measured in ticks, if you change those frequencies then the entire game balance changes
15:20:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8157: Fix: Incorrect save/load array size of Town::cargo_accepted https://git.io/JJvO3
15:23:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
15:32:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8157: Fix: Incorrect save/load array size of Town::cargo_accepted https://git.io/JfEmO
15:33:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8079: Add: [NewGRF] Industry behaviour flag to override second cargo produc… https://git.io/JvhMQ
15:33:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx
15:36:33 <nielsm> 999 closed pull requests!
15:36:56 *** arikover has joined #openttd
15:37:20 <nielsm> anyone got the cake and champagne ready?
15:38:10 <LordAro> i've got beer in the fridge and some biscuits...
15:39:43 <nielsm> and then we should figure out do we really want it :)
15:40:58 <LordAro> what's our oldest open PR?
15:41:02 <LordAro> and should we close it?
15:41:54 <nielsm> 3 oldest are marked stale
15:51:44 <supermop_Home> i think my problem here is that i have so much water, many train routes could easily be a ship just running along the coast
15:52:14 <supermop_Home> which is less fun, but hard to commit to building a rail line
15:56:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
16:02:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
16:08:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z
16:38:33 * andythenorth dreams of sandbox mode
16:57:35 <FLHerne> Money cheat + magic bulldozer + vehicles-never-expire?
16:58:13 <FLHerne> michi_cc: Does #8079 want a corresponding flag in NML?
17:02:43 <dP> nielsm, what's the plan for town cargo desync in 1.10 then?
17:05:47 <LordAro> dP: does it happen often?
17:06:13 <LordAro> if it's rare enough, i'm not personally worried too much
17:06:25 <FLHerne> michi_cc: What does it actually do? I can't find any docs that mention such clamping
17:06:30 <dP> LordAro, there are some desyncs happening that I can't debug
17:06:52 <FLHerne> (also, the flag itself needs documenting in the specs)
17:07:13 <dP> LordAro, also I'm more worried that #8159 is voided now
17:10:05 <michi_cc> FLHerne: I don't know if there's any docs besides the game code for that behaviour. There's special code for the water industries (by default only the oil rig) that limits the amount of pax (second cargo) generation.
17:11:15 <LordAro> dP: that said, if you rebase it quick enough to replace what we just merged, i'd be happy to merge it
17:11:25 <LordAro> (just "reuse" the save version)
17:11:52 <dP> LordAro, 8159 is backportable fix with the whole purpose of avoiding version bump
17:12:58 <LordAro> the whole "change existing subsidy generation" thing scares me
17:13:29 <LordAro> can you explain how the subsidy generation is changed, and why that's necessary? (in the PR)
17:14:59 <dP> LordAro, didn't I already?
17:15:43 <FLHerne> michi_cc: Thanks, but clamped to what?
17:16:16 <FLHerne> The first cargo production?
17:16:17 <michi_cc> 16 instead of 255 (whatever that amounts to)
17:16:23 <FLHerne> Some arbitrary value?
17:16:33 <LordAro> dP: not that i can see
17:19:14 <dP> LordAro, well, I guess I can add a bit of "how" but "why" there are plenty
17:19:30 <dP> LordAro, it's more effecient to do a map scan in subsidy than maintain those caches
17:23:57 <LordAro> dP: i get why the change has been made
17:24:08 <LordAro> i don't get why that results in different subsidies being generated
17:24:30 <LordAro> "Break/alter subsidies a bit by reducing the probability of generating certain subsidy types"
17:27:06 <dP> LordAro, because it now checks only acceptance of 13x13 area around town center instead of doing weird thing that was probably supposed to check everywhere but doesn't
17:28:25 <dP> LordAro, well, it does check everywhere but what it actually checks is beyond description xD
17:28:40 <LordAro> without really thinking about it, i can't see how that would result in different subsidy generation?
17:30:08 <dP> LordAro, if you have special house accepting some unique cargo somewhere on the outskirts of the town it won't generate subsidy for it
17:30:35 <LordAro> if it's as edgecasey as that, i'm not bothered at all
17:30:48 <LordAro> you can add a Revert commit to the beginning of your PR :)
17:32:35 <LordAro> dP: although, towns already have an authority area cache, would it be terrible to use that instead?
17:32:59 <dP> LordAro, how would revert work for a backport?
17:33:20 <LordAro> dP: the original would just never get backported
17:33:30 <LordAro> but that's my problem, not yours :)
17:33:52 <dP> LordAro, authority area cache? what's that?
17:34:10 <LordAro> the one that's used to display the town's authority area
17:34:21 <LordAro> it was the original reason all the kdtree stuff was added, iirc
17:35:25 <LordAro> dP: as long as a nightly is never generated with this new savegame version, i'm happy to revert it
17:35:27 <dP> LordAro, it can probably be used to catch those edge cases but are you sure it's synced well? ;)
17:35:28 <LordAro> so you've got 2 hours :)
17:35:51 <LordAro> innocent until proven guilty
17:36:36 <LordAro> regardless, we can't easily remove that one :p
17:36:43 <dP> anyway, subsidies can be improved later if anyone cares about that :p
17:37:40 <dP> if they aren't removed completely before that xD
17:38:06 <LordAro> given they were the only way to get the necessary performance
17:38:32 <LordAro> and unless there are fundamental sync issues with them, i can't see them going anywhere
17:39:20 <dP> LordAro, get what? performance rating doesn't require subsidies
17:39:44 <dP> LordAro, I don't really care as long as there is a way to disable them completely
17:40:01 <LordAro> i'm talking about runtime performance of OTTD itself
17:41:30 <dP> LordAro, well, then I don't understand you at all, subsidies aren't helping game performance at all, quite the opposite in fact
17:42:42 <LordAro> i'm talking about kdtrees as a whole
17:42:56 <LordAro> it's of no consequence, so don't worry
17:43:30 <dP> LordAro, oh, that, kdtrees aren't related to subsidies at all
17:44:15 <dP> LordAro, I meant removing subsidies, not trees xD
17:47:13 <LordAro> dP: aha, everything makes more sense again
17:47:34 <LordAro> PR with rebase & revert in the next couple of hours, i'll have no issues merging
17:48:00 <LordAro> nielsm: i presume you are the same?
17:53:39 <nielsm> let me just read backlog
17:57:19 <nielsm> merging 8159 in a backportable form? yes I'd be for that
17:57:51 <LordAro> nielsm: the controversial bit is reverting the savegame bump
17:58:47 <nielsm> there was never a savegame bump in the changesets I remember seeing
17:58:59 <nielsm> a change in SL code yes but not a version bump
18:00:40 <dP> nielsm, 8157 blocks backportable 8159 and 8159 in any form makes 8157 pointless
18:01:11 <nielsm> ah right I missed that part
18:01:31 <dP> and now I'm trying to learn git before nightly comes out xD
18:02:31 <nielsm> start from master, make a new branch, revert 8157 commit, change to 8159 branch, rebase 8159 onto that temporary branch
18:04:27 <LordAro> as long as the resulting (remote) branch has the same name as the GH PR, everything should be fine
18:06:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JfE5M
18:07:43 <dP> nielsm, surprisingly I figured that out myself
18:08:17 <LordAro> dP: I'd probably go with "Revert #8157: Redundant change" or similar
18:08:22 <dP> except I screwed up first commit message xD
18:08:45 <LordAro> the PR shouldn't be "relying" on it backported
18:08:58 <LordAro> as far as the PR is concerned, it's just a standard change
18:09:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JfE5M
18:10:58 <dP> surprisingly it all seemed to work...
18:11:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JJvnf
18:11:48 <LordAro> nielsm: ^ if you could give that a once over as well...
18:15:42 <nielsm> just waiting for CI now
18:15:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JJvnn
18:16:02 <nielsm> the windows builds have become horribly slow with cmake, it looks like it might be running them single threaded
18:16:20 <nielsm> (and it uses cmake -> vcbuild instead of ninja)
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18:24:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JfE5M
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20:15:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJv87
20:17:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJv8F
21:02:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJvB0
21:33:22 <TrueBrain> gratz nielsm ; now you have to buy the cake :P
21:34:05 <andythenorth> nearby station name for Fish Farm?
21:34:15 <andythenorth> Fishing Grounds has '...Shoals'
21:35:40 <nielsm> is that a land based industry?
21:36:46 <nielsm> artificial lakes perhaps but still lakes, sort of
21:38:14 <nielsm> but is it an industry neutral station or a player built station?
21:38:31 <nielsm> "seaside" if there are no industry stations for it
21:46:46 <supermop_Home> andy add Vietnamese floating village from lan ha bay
21:47:20 <supermop_Home> accepts polystyrene, produces cuttlefish and mantis shrimp
21:48:08 <nielsm> what, the more polystyrene you deliver the production declines?
21:48:28 <andythenorth> I have been considering net externalities for the chemicals economy
21:48:39 <supermop_Home> the village floats on polystyrene block
21:48:44 <andythenorth> I got a little bit simcity in my thinking
21:49:00 <supermop_Home> so you need more to build more fish pens and houses
21:49:17 <andythenorth> I invented some kind of polluted dissatisfied towns
21:49:30 <andythenorth> we need some kind of scripting API :P
21:49:45 <andythenorth> Truebrain is probably working on it ^ :P
21:50:08 <supermop_Home> though the government there is trying to get them to transition to some kind of durable plastic pontoons as the polystyrene crumbles and gets all over the bay
21:55:01 <TrueBrain> hmm, annoying, I really did finish Netflix ..
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22:15:24 <supermop_Home> implement recommendation algo in bananas?
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22:37:12 <b_jonas> I'm trying conditional orders now. I don't know if it will work.
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continue to next day ⏵
