IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-04-24
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01:45:33 <glx> hmm looks like python caching fails on windows
01:48:07 <LordAro> tar (child): Cannot connect to d: resolve failed
01:48:08 <LordAro> /usr/bin/tar: d\:\\a\\_temp\\15e822fa-2219-4532-9149-419fd7c72d39\\cache.tgz: Cannot write: Broken pipe
01:48:28 <glx> and on my PR its not found but already exists
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03:56:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #102: Fix #100: follow PEP440 when generating version https://git.io/JfLfr
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08:34:02 <TrueBrain> and _dp_ , you ended up being able to do some nasty shit?
08:54:08 <andythenorth> what shall I do today?
08:54:37 <andythenorth> shall I do what I'm obliged to do
08:54:49 * andythenorth knows the answer :|
08:57:12 <Xaroth> I wouldn't know... also, probably not good to ask TrueBrain as he'll likely mutter something about taking over the world.
08:57:51 <TrueBrain> its pinky, its pinky, its pinky and the brain brain brain brain brain brain brain brain
08:58:15 * andythenorth counters with log
09:04:53 * andythenorth will mostly be doing grown up meetings today
09:09:54 <TrueBrain> my idea was the work all day on AWS, but it seems work requires a bit attention too
09:10:00 <TrueBrain> (took the day off, but .. what can you do)
09:10:36 <andythenorth> I want to take the day off, I have been productive this week
09:10:52 <andythenorth> but we have monthly information security meeting booked, not optional :|
09:11:17 <andythenorth> the risk register won't review itself!
09:12:13 <andythenorth> I noticed that overnight, we have made nml much better
09:47:04 <_dp_> TrueBrain, not rly, unless it broke something that I didn't notice xD
09:47:21 <TrueBrain> well, that is good I guess :P
09:48:49 <_dp_> csp seems to save it, non-csp browsers probably got xssed xD
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10:20:41 <TrueBrain> _dp_: that won't be good either; I assume there was some escaping going on tbh :)
10:21:12 <TrueBrain> owh, there is for most part
10:21:41 <_dp_> There is escaping but some xss doesn't rely on escaped stuff
10:21:56 <_dp_> eg it accepts javascript: and data: just fine
10:21:57 <TrueBrain> I like the data: urls :)
10:22:43 <TrueBrain> well, always feel free to (ab)use staging, and if you find a way to poke a hole, let us know :)
10:33:12 <_dp_> TrueBrain, considering I'm using same stuff for my websites it would be strange if I knew how to break it xD
10:33:57 <Eddi|zuHause> strange maybe, but not unheard of :p
10:41:44 <_dp_> modern frameworks are kinda boring
10:42:11 <_dp_> I remember in php days there were like 10 escaping methods with 9 of them being faulty xD
10:42:52 <TrueBrain> you have no idea how often this still happens ...
10:43:15 <TrueBrain> many companies don't know what OWASP top 10 is .. and they developer very large webapplications
10:43:22 <TrueBrain> s/developer/develop/
10:43:44 <TrueBrain> "we wrote our own ORM, it is faster"
10:45:40 <andythenorth> I used to write 'eval(user_input)'
10:45:46 <andythenorth> so that we could write code through the web
10:46:37 <_dp_> and I was going full lex+yacc in private project xD
10:52:28 <TrueBrain> okay, I have a small Python script that writes the traefik configuration for the NLB .. now how do I run this when needed .. hmmm
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11:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> "we wrote our own ORM, it is faster" <-- and each department of the company does that, so the final product ships 10 different versions of the same thing
11:54:09 <Samu> english question: "will be build" or "will be built"?
11:54:11 <TrueBrain> and they are all rubbish :P
11:54:32 <Samu> to be build, to be built?
11:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause> god forbid the departments actually talking to each other to coordinate
11:58:42 <Samu> openttd code comments have many of these "be build"
11:58:54 <doug16k> "built" when it tried to be the invalid word builded
12:00:01 <doug16k> ah it is also the future tense
12:02:36 <Samu> /* If the two tiles are 1 tile apart and are sloped, or more than 1 tile apart, the pathfinder wants an aqueduct
12:03:00 <doug16k> yes. definitely built
12:04:50 <doug16k> that almost looks like a search and replace mistake, if I had to guess
12:05:05 <doug16k> comment bugs build up
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12:08:06 <doug16k> or someone knowing other languages and not perfect. I can't complain until I know two spoken languages really well :D
12:11:10 <doug16k> I would love a conditional branch that branches "if the train carries mostly" and {passengers,mail,etc...} dropdown then goto
12:12:25 <doug16k> and look at the capacity of each type and see if the max one matches the criteria
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12:16:52 <LordAro> Samu: OTTD comments are about 70% written by Dutch or German people :p
12:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> doug16k: so if the train carries 40% passengers, 30% ore and 30% coal, can it justify going down the "passenger" branch even though it's 60% non-passengers?
12:49:18 <doug16k> put the priority order the same as the order it presents them when you buy. first one in that order with most wins?
12:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not answer the question
12:50:19 <doug16k> it does carry mostly passengers
12:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but, does it really?
12:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> can the party who got 40% of the vote claim they "won" the election, even though the two 30% parties can form a coalition against them?
12:51:55 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: as it turns out, yes
12:52:56 <doug16k> count the cars, group by type, order descending by count,order_in_buy_screen, select top one
12:53:54 <doug16k> will that not select passenger on your train?
12:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not the question
12:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the question is whether that decision is justified
12:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> philosophy, not technique.
12:55:07 <Xaroth> I think you're putting too much thought in it :P
12:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm asking this because of two reasons: a) different players will have opposing opinions on this matter, and b) how to explain which of the methods is chosen, with very restricted space?
12:56:11 <doug16k> I want to send excessive passenger trains on an loop to a rule that says go to the sell-me maintenance building and stop
12:56:21 <Samu> yesterday it was 403 ticks, today it is down to 303
12:57:42 <doug16k> what's more straightforward than conditional rule by trains primary purpose
12:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not seeing how such an order would even help you with that
13:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if you zoom out one game design level, you should ask: how many other people could find this useful for other purposes
13:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm very far on the "this doesn't help enough people to justify putting it in" side
13:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and that's completely ignoring the fact that conditional orders are very incompatible with cargo distribution
13:03:47 <doug16k> you want me to have all separate rule lists to micro on all the different trains
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13:04:08 <doug16k> I want one rule program to be able to make basic decision about skipping
13:05:15 <doug16k> or as tools to make it possible to make your cars go somewhere without too much trouble if you find you have too much of one type
13:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> how is it too much to ask that you have separate groups/orders for passenger trains and mail trains?
13:05:54 <doug16k> sitting and micromanaging cars coming into a depot is not effective use of time
13:06:52 <doug16k> then you have to go micro each type of train a station can support?
13:07:04 <doug16k> figure out the insertion point
13:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i've no clue what you're talking about
13:07:58 <doug16k> if I have a bunch of different rules I will end up missing places unless I micro manage each type of cargo at each station
13:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> there's certainly loads of sources for micromanagement in this game. i fail to see how "decide whether this is a passenger or mail train" is a major contributor to that
13:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if at all, that is a group management feature and not an order list feature
13:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, adding a feature that only one player in the world knows how to use is not an effective use of UI-real-estate
13:15:58 <doug16k> ya why would people want to make a rule that helps them manage the amount of a type of train is in a loop. that would never be wanted
13:16:02 <Samu> can't get lower than 303 t.t
13:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> how is it my fault that you can't bring your point across?
13:18:46 <doug16k> I don't have to convince you, I have the source
13:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to convince me, but if you can't convince me, how would you convince any of the devs to include your suggestion?
13:19:36 <doug16k> I thought maybe you have a really good argument against it and everyone comes here with that rule
13:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i'm aware you're the first person who ever wanted this specific rule
13:20:31 <doug16k> do you know assembly language?
13:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> a bunch of people wanted other rules that would have helped their specific use case
13:20:44 <doug16k> they are conditional branches
13:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ... but they usually failed to make a case for how that would benefit a broader audience
13:21:05 <doug16k> I can't condition on train type
13:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but making an order list shouldn't require of a player that they know assembly language
13:23:21 <doug16k> they already are using conditional branches if they ever use conditional order
13:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> because the median openttd player would likely not have that kind of knowledge
13:23:48 <doug16k> that order window. that's assembly language. they don't know it, but it is
13:24:01 <doug16k> there are instructions, the operands are locations
13:25:30 <doug16k> there are a bunch of flag bits in the opcode for each instruction, for load all, etc
13:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and many many people already can't cope with that
13:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if an inexperienced player opens a window, which is overloaded with complicated stuff, they turn around and walk away
13:26:40 <doug16k> one more item in the conditional order drop down drives them away??
13:26:59 <doug16k> seems like you drive away any contributions too
13:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> to be fair, most "contribuitions" anywhere in the world work like that
13:27:44 <doug16k> one chat with one person determines the fate of any idea?
13:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm trying to break open your mind and reconsider your idea in a broader scope. if you can't do that, your idea is already dead on the spot.
13:28:52 <doug16k> you already have it there where you choose the criteria. age, etc
13:29:10 <doug16k> how open should my mind be? propose some new special location?
13:29:55 <doug16k> how about "carries only" and a car type. then no argument about what is the most
13:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's many levels of scope that you could view this from. in the easiest case: how would a person that is not you use this feature for something that is completely different from your use case
13:31:21 <doug16k> I thought "mostly" made it usable in more scenarios
13:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and the most complicated scope is: the order UI is already a horrible mess, let's restruture it completely to make more sense of it, and actually adding stuff without making it more overloaded
13:32:31 <doug16k> you can do this: add a shortcut that skips stuff that many car types don't want. put a shortcut that skips them. then, put a way for me to say skip that if you are the wrong type
13:34:10 <doug16k> if the player micros that rule set, then cars will not all go that way for nothing
13:34:27 <doug16k> and sharing is easier
13:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and somewhere inbetween is: how would a player that doesn't know what he wants to do see whether this thing that you want to add is what he wants to do
13:34:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on pull request #102: Fix #100: follow PEP440 when generating version https://git.io/JfLnb
13:36:35 <doug16k> exploring the amazing stuff you could do with rules might be a fun part of the gameplay
13:36:47 <doug16k> what restrict it to only simplistic use?
13:37:12 <milek7> so, squirrel controlled orders? ;d
13:37:15 <doug16k> for me that wrong an xhci driver in my kernel
13:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to write a feature for the intersection of "players of openttd" with "people who once wrote a kernel driver", and expect that number to be larger than 1?
13:39:14 <doug16k> the redstone of openttd
13:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> we have that playerbase covered. they built a CPU using trains and signals
13:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> just look up "load balancer" and "priority signals"
13:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and these people have an endless supply of "if only we added <X> we could do more complex stuff" type of suggestions
13:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there are already more suggestions than anyone could ever code, so naturally we will be looking for reasons to turn them down
13:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and even if someone manages to come along with actual code to support their idea, there's still loads of reasons to turn them down
13:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you build a jenga tower of code, any wrong step could topple over the tower and ruin the game for everyone
13:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> just remember that scene in the meaning of life, where the guy eats just a tiny thing on top of all the other things he ate
13:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what its like to program for a long standing project like this
13:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think i won? :p)
13:48:35 <TrueBrain> (I have not read ANYTHING you guys wrote for the last hour or so; I am just trolling :D)
13:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's worth your time reading that :p
13:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> TLDR: he requests a ridiculously niche feature, and then can't handle the fact that i'm telling him it has no chance of going in
13:51:07 <TrueBrain> that is not very polite :P
13:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it would have been less polite if i had used those exact words, yes :p
13:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i was poking his idea from various sides, and he basically failed every test on how robust his idea is for anything...
13:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and then i got more and more direct, and apparently that pissed him off
14:04:21 <milek7> projects with more haphazard development are more fun :P
14:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you need the right balance between conservatism (keep the project running) and experimentalism (add new features)
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14:49:04 <TrueBrain> ugh .. so much time has gone into this already, and only now I notice that you cannot enable proxy-protocol for outgoing connections from Traefik
14:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> clearly you should write your own system
14:55:01 <TrueBrain> seriously, it turns out there is no software that does both TCP and UDP with proxy support on the backend connection
14:55:59 <TrueBrain> well, proxy support v2, that is
15:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno what that even means
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15:21:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #102: Fix #100: follow PEP440 when generating version https://git.io/JfL4g
15:27:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain commented on pull request #102: Fix #100: follow PEP440 when generating version https://git.io/JfL4F
15:28:38 <TrueBrain> I hope that made sense ..
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15:47:46 <mcbanhas> LordAro: you got a minute?
15:49:12 <milek7> doesn't nginx support udp proxying?
15:58:43 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
16:01:07 <mcbanhas> I assumed asking for time did not fall into that category :p
16:01:58 <LordAro> perhaps, but i am here all the time, and i will get to whatever you ask when i can
16:02:08 <LordAro> alternatively, there might be someone else here who can help
16:06:07 <mcbanhas> Just in case you remember: a month or so ago I submitted a PR for fixing a lot of stuff with in-game text and tooltips. Because reviewing it would be a tricky process and submitting multiple PRs for each category of changes was out of the question, we agreed the best way to handle it would be for me to create a manual of style for general text, much like the one for coding style.
16:07:15 <mcbanhas> I'm almost done writing the manual of style, and I've even made a thread about it for people to discuss and suggest changes.
16:08:27 <mcbanhas> Once I'm done I'd like you to go over it, given you're an EN-UK native speaker, so you can give your final approval or suggest any ammendments necessary.
16:09:35 <mcbanhas> Any other native EN-UK speaking core dev would also do, of course, but I'm not aware of any other atm.
16:12:35 <LordAro> depends how active peter1138 is feeling
16:15:20 <mcbanhas> The first version of the document would be in markdown format. I would upload it in the forum thread or something like that. Once approved, I would transcribe the whole thing to the wiki.
16:16:31 <mcbanhas> I could also do a wiki draft instead, if you'd prefer that, since I would upload example pics, and it would be more legible I guess.
16:26:27 <Samu> back to 309 ticks :( im sad, I regressed
16:28:20 <Samu> 6 more ticks than what I used to have
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16:45:44 <Samu> looks like my conflict tile checker wasn't 100% accurate
16:46:24 <Samu> excessive conflicts when in truth there weren't any
16:46:40 <Samu> less conflicts = more nodes to check = more ticks :( oh well
16:47:28 <Samu> I'm still unsure about Array vs AIList
16:47:38 <Samu> which one would give me more speed
17:02:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on issue #8095: Feature suggestion: option to automatically space out vehicles in a shared order https://git.io/JfIUi
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17:12:06 <Samu> confirmed, AITileList is faster
17:13:31 <Samu> i miss a feature from squirrel 3
17:14:35 <Samu> but it's ok, we have AITileList.KeepList, i can just smash a list into another and check for conflicts this way
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17:28:42 <TrueBrain> 2020-04-24 15:28:19 INFO Dropping invalid packet from ('10.0.89.85', 38856): PacketInvalidData('packet too short')
17:28:46 <TrueBrain> WE HAVE COMMUNICATION
17:30:43 <TrueBrain> hmm .. and I don't have native IPv6 .. tha tis annoying
17:39:03 <planetmaker> huston, we have communication? :)
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17:51:54 <SpComb> TrueBrain: implementing your own TCP/UDP proxy?
17:52:15 <TrueBrain> no, I tried very very VERY hard to avoid that
17:52:20 <SpComb> that would be a fun project in Go. I should have volunteered earlier :P
17:57:44 <SpComb> if this is still about the AWS IPv4/IPv6 TCP/UDP thing we discussed earlier, and it requires some custom implementation of that, I might be interested in the implementation of something like that
17:58:04 <TrueBrain> I do not want to implement my own proxy; that would be VERY difficult to pull off
17:58:17 <TrueBrain> but atm I do have nginx running, on proxy-protocol v1, doing the same
17:58:27 <SpComb> I can't remember all the details of this
17:58:31 <TrueBrain> but if you enjoy rebuilding an NLB on AWS, there might be some bits and pieces I need help with :P
17:59:04 <TrueBrain> hmm ... CDK can be a real PITA to deploy mutations
18:00:52 <SpComb> this was about the lack of IPv6 support for AWS NLB?
18:01:33 <TrueBrain> so what I currently have is an ASG with user-data that spins up EC2 instances with nginx + python script that provisions the correct configuration
18:01:49 <TrueBrain> next task is to make some lambdas and connect them to hooks to automate the coming and going of services
18:02:13 <SpComb> but if nginx ngx_stream_proxy_module can implement it, then that's probably the least in terms of maintenance overhead
18:02:22 <TrueBrain> that is what I did now
18:02:26 <TrueBrain> sadly, it is proxy-protocol v1 only
18:02:37 <TrueBrain> which is a bit annoying to pick up on the server-side of things
18:02:41 <TrueBrain> but .. I guess it will have to do
18:02:45 <SpComb> yeah, so it just needs some config automation for nginx?
18:02:52 <TrueBrain> that part is done now
18:02:58 <TrueBrain> there was not much "just" about it
18:03:03 <TrueBrain> took .. 6 hours to build? :D
18:03:13 <TrueBrain> 120 lines of Python code :P
18:05:58 <TrueBrain> okay .. lets see if this redeployment doesn't destroy the ECS cluster :D
18:06:18 <SpComb> I haven't dealt with AWS ASG:s yet, but I will need to soon... however, my plan was to use kube as a layer over all of the service orchestration
18:06:42 <TrueBrain> I have run away from k8s as fast and far as I could
18:07:13 <SpComb> so just ASG the kube nodes and use EKS or whatever, and keep all the actual services as kube stuff, not AWS-specific
18:07:44 <TrueBrain> anyway, EKS / ECS, it won't make a real difference in this case
18:08:01 <TrueBrain> if you cannot use the ALB and NLB
18:08:07 <TrueBrain> you have some work to do :D
18:08:25 <TrueBrain> so if you use EKS, but can I suggest ECS, I hope you only have HTTP traffic to route :D
18:09:00 <SpComb> yeah my work usecase is pure HTTP, like all sensible usecases are :P
18:09:23 <TrueBrain> I provisioned that with CDK, ECS and ALB, very easy to deal with
18:09:30 <TrueBrain> even stuff like: on this domain, that path has to go to this pod
18:09:35 <TrueBrain> and on that path to the other pod
18:09:51 <TrueBrain> okay, this didn't kill the ECS, so that is good ..
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18:13:02 <SpComb> was this the master-server/browser or bananas or what service?
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18:13:57 <TrueBrain> but it will also be used for master-server
18:14:44 <SpComb> why do I remember UDP being involved
18:15:57 <TrueBrain> YES! Security Group change was accepted, and now traffic is flowing again :)
18:16:05 <SpComb> bananas was some custom TCP protocol?
18:16:58 <glx> except for actual downloading yes
18:19:40 <TrueBrain> oh-oh, my ASG keeps on rebuilding instances
18:19:42 <TrueBrain> that is not good :D
18:19:48 <andythenorth> LordAro do you want to investigate Blacken further, or should I read the rest of that PR and then approve it?
18:20:19 <LordAro> i do want to investigate further
18:20:36 <LordAro> there are definitely a few things in there that would benefit from disabling formatting
18:20:43 <LordAro> not all that pm pointed out imo, but some
18:22:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on issue #8092: Swedish translation issue in the performance rating window https://git.io/JfTUv
18:22:18 <andythenorth> I used to do the alignment thing, it was common on coop projects
18:22:47 <andythenorth> but generally I dropped it, the readability tradeoff isn't high versus the messing around with spaces
18:32:15 <andythenorth> FLHerne like nml/global_constants/py?
18:34:04 <FLHerne> andythenorth: And action0properties, action2var_variables, ...
18:34:52 <FLHerne> Some of those have 20+ lines in a table
18:35:08 <FLHerne> Which is just an unreadable mess without formatting
18:35:21 <SpComb> TrueBrain: but from what I remember of the previous discussion, my suggested long-term approach was to implement a new HTTP server for bananas/masterserver, and then implement a custom UDP/TCP -> HTTP proxy for backwards-compatbility... assuming that some new version of the OpenTTD client itself would just use HTTP as well
18:35:56 <SpComb> which is probably also way more work than scripting some nginx configs... although I wonder what the actual proxy backend is going to be?
18:36:02 <FLHerne> andythenorth: If anything, global_constants isn't as bad, because it's mostly just one value per line
18:36:35 <FLHerne> So the alignment makes it harder to scan the values, but at least they're not jumbled together
18:36:46 <TrueBrain> SpComb: we have a deadline of .. 6 more days to get this fixed. So all solutions involving long-term are already out of the window ;)
18:36:51 <TrueBrain> but I am off for dinner now; talk after
18:37:36 <andythenorth> FLHerne I am +/-0, I used to care much more about formatting like this for readability
18:38:05 <andythenorth> and I used to argue with people who wanted to pep-8 everything regardless of readability
18:38:32 <SpComb> TBH just dropping IPv6 support is probably also an acceptable short-term solution
18:38:55 <andythenorth> now I am more [shrug emoji]
18:39:11 <TrueBrain> no, it is not. That means 15+% of our users won't be able to use the service. That is completely unacceptable even, as it goes about solutions :)
18:41:57 <supermop_Home_> can't we just put the site on gophernet instead?
18:59:59 <SpComb> replace both with editable wiki pages: List of Multiplayer Servers
19:01:20 <nielsm> TrueBrain do you know how many of those 15% of users have ipv6-only connections and how many have both ipv4 and ipv6 but just prefer ipv6 for services that support it?
19:04:43 <LordAro> a much much smaller number, i'd bet
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19:44:34 <TrueBrain> nielsm: lot of that 15% is from Asia, which are known for their IPv6 only
19:44:43 <TrueBrain> but it is difficult to say without disabling IPv6
19:44:50 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, we are not going to do that :)
19:46:32 <TrueBrain> so .. network paths are made .. now I need to implement Proxy Protocol v1 I guess .. TO THE BATMOBILE
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19:57:27 <andythenorth> turns out...no fairies, imps, pixies or goblins
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20:00:12 <frosch123> if the table would have align-top, it's not so bad
20:01:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] andythenorth commented on pull request #16: Format the elements in the page header https://git.io/JfL6c
20:01:31 <andythenorth> frosch123 I'll do that now
20:01:45 <frosch123> hmm, i think we should delete the subheaders
20:01:57 <andythenorth> I tried to write a nice reply to Auge, but my brain is fail, end of the week
20:02:16 <frosch123> they had a purpose when i added them initially, but then other stuff changed, and now they are pointless
20:03:26 <andythenorth> oh yeah I've been deleting those as I go :)
20:03:31 <andythenorth> I assumed you'd agree :)
20:08:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #5: Add: support Proxy Protocol v1 (if requested) https://git.io/JfL6K
20:08:52 <TrueBrain> there we go; that was relative painless
20:09:00 <andythenorth> ok I needed to rebase, there was a conflict
20:09:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #5: Add: support Proxy Protocol v1 (if requested) https://git.io/JfL6K
20:13:00 <andythenorth> hmm, total manual picking of lines needed :)
20:14:10 <frosch123> you indened <tbody> :)
20:14:25 <frosch123> don't change indenting, it breaks everything
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20:24:22 <andythenorth> you don't fancy merging it yet? :P
20:24:32 <frosch123> shall i rebase your stuff?
20:24:40 <andythenorth> if you don't mind
20:24:45 <andythenorth> otherwise I can actually fix it
20:24:59 <andythenorth> but I am eating a burger
20:25:40 <frosch123> abbde5f06d67b3681e29e4d25c27d9fb49935b74 is your HEAD?
20:25:59 <andythenorth> 84baed588bb0ebfb0cf4a2906dae1b097c3f6ffc
20:26:00 <TrueBrain> hmmm .. burgers ....
20:28:03 <mcbanhas> Finished the first draft of my manual of style
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20:28:38 <andythenorth> TrueBrain one is usually enough? o_O
20:28:59 <mcbanhas> I'd never imagine that in my life I would ever end up doing one of the most boring things ever conceived by men.
20:29:59 <andythenorth> you have been on Zoom calls all day too? :o
20:33:26 <peter1138> I have been biked... and now I have been beered.
20:33:42 <milek7> surely nobody is using ipv6-only connection
20:37:14 * andythenorth wonders when beer will go out of fashion
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20:41:35 <supermop_Home> i am pro-burger
20:42:06 <nielsm> I am having fish and wine
20:45:05 <supermop_Home> lockdown = no access to orange wine
20:46:23 <andythenorth> supermop_Home chemicaltown has gone quite deep into chemicals now
20:46:29 <andythenorth> not so much New Extreme :P
20:47:43 <TrueBrain> red fish .. what kind of fish is that?
20:48:26 <mcbanhas> TrueBrain: red snappers are otherwise known as redfish if you go to a fishmonger.
20:48:56 <nielsm> but what I'm having is white fish and white wine
20:48:57 <mcbanhas> They're great as an oven roast.
20:49:03 <TrueBrain> hmm, even in dutch is it "red"
20:49:15 <TrueBrain> learn something new every day :)
20:50:32 <supermop_Home> andythenorth "you're not from brighton" economy?
20:52:44 <supermop_Home> MD Walkman might still work
20:55:34 <mcbanhas> How to make a great snapper roast: scale the snapper, don't skin it or make it into fillet. Slice the Snapper into 4 slices including head & tail. Skin and quarter some Russet potatoes. In a wide pan with olive oil sweat one large onion and some tinned tomatoes. Put the snapper slices in the center of a wide ceramic oven tray with the potatoes spreaded around and season with salt + pepper. Pout the onion mix on top of it all,
20:58:04 <mcbanhas> You can use other types of fish too, of course, but snapper is cheap and easy to find.
21:04:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:22:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: you wrote somewhere that "html validation" is last. please extend that list with "fix indentation" is also last :)
21:22:45 <andythenorth> it also produces big diffs :P
21:23:22 <andythenorth> sometimes I do it first, with an automated tool ;)
21:25:23 <frosch123> aw, the footer i c&p from main website does not work
21:25:51 <frosch123> i thought the css would have been magically present
21:26:36 <andythenorth> might just need a class or id
21:28:41 <andythenorth> hmm my local branch won't rebase to yours, I'll just delete it and re-branch
21:43:26 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.0000002083 * 10 * 60 * 5
21:43:32 <TrueBrain> well, that is not helpful
21:46:01 <TrueBrain> it does look awesome :)
22:00:58 <Samu> what does lhs and rhs stand for
22:02:12 <Samu> return lhs._type == rhs._type && lhs._unVal.raw == rhs._unVal.raw;
22:04:15 <andythenorth> frosch123 I keep finding new package edit forms :D
22:08:23 <andythenorth> can't remember how to get to version info page though
22:09:37 <andythenorth> maybe I need an archived package
22:16:16 <TrueBrain> that would fix most of my infra issues :D
22:20:30 <andythenorth> it's quite a challenge that nav
22:20:35 <andythenorth> stacked navs are hard to use
22:20:43 <andythenorth> but eh, we just need something
22:21:08 <andythenorth> I can see 4 things that we can move into a different row
22:21:29 <andythenorth> frosch123 also I've done all the pages I could find
22:21:41 <andythenorth> 'done' isn't done
22:21:52 <andythenorth> I don't know about form validation style, user messages etc
22:22:20 <frosch123> as long as all text is readable :)
22:22:57 <andythenorth> my automated checker just found a few things to clean up
22:23:50 <nielsm> TrueBrain: I can make an approving review but it won't be reviewing the contents of the PR
22:24:27 <andythenorth> "openttd-64-ipv6.gif" o_O
22:24:37 <TrueBrain> nielsm: you don't know Python? :D
22:24:50 <nielsm> I don't have any experience with the modules involved
22:25:12 <TrueBrain> does anyone, really? :D
22:26:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] Xaroth approved pull request #5: Add: support Proxy Protocol v1 (if requested) https://git.io/JfLDV
22:27:12 <andythenorth> 15 contrast errors
22:27:22 <andythenorth> no html validation errors
22:27:35 <TrueBrain> sadly, that approval doesn't allow me to merge :P
22:27:53 <frosch123> also, isn't xaroth your brother or something?
22:27:58 <Xaroth> hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
22:28:24 <TrueBrain> even if he was, are you implying I can bribe him?
22:28:30 <TrueBrain> as that means you really don't know him :P
22:28:31 <Xaroth> damnit, now there's lemonade all over my desk, thanks frosch123.
22:28:52 <andythenorth> really, who would do that? ^^^
22:29:39 <Xaroth> To be fair, I don't see TrueBrain as one who would bribe somebody just for a PR approval :P
22:29:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] frosch123 approved pull request #5: Add: support Proxy Protocol v1 (if requested) https://git.io/JfLDr
22:30:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #5: Add: support Proxy Protocol v1 (if requested) https://git.io/JfL6K
22:30:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: yay, top-score on that analysis
22:30:52 <andythenorth> the lack of form labels really angers the validator
22:31:08 * andythenorth looks in current bananas
22:32:58 <andythenorth> ok current bananas provides some labels, inconsistently
22:34:11 <andythenorth> frosch123 what's the next step? I'm not sure where I'll be next few days
22:34:17 <andythenorth> well I know I'll be in my house :P
22:34:26 <andythenorth> but OpenTTD time might be very variable
22:34:38 <andythenorth> PR the current state?
22:35:15 <frosch123> if you push to your gh, i can pull, fix the navigator selection, and pr it
22:35:45 <andythenorth> ok everything is pushed to style-classic-openttd
22:35:56 <andythenorth> which is recently based on your branch
22:36:20 <frosch123> i'll PR it tomorrow then
22:36:24 <andythenorth> we can use the PR for remaining issues, like the lack of form labels?
22:36:32 <andythenorth> I don't have a GH issue for this iirc
22:55:00 <TrueBrain> this AWS ... it is such a beast :)
22:55:12 <TrueBrain> my Lambda was not put in a VPC, so it was not able to validate the server was up ..
22:55:17 <TrueBrain> took me only ... 30 minutes to figure out :P
22:57:01 <TrueBrain> I think I created 200+ EC2 instances today :)
23:07:59 <andythenorth> everyone is leaving!
23:08:05 * andythenorth should go to sleep
23:10:54 <TrueBrain> enjoy your night sleep andythenorth :)
23:11:09 <andythenorth> all the meetings!
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23:12:22 <supermop_Home> i'm still in a meeting!
23:23:26 <supermop_Home> video call via slack
23:24:04 <supermop_Home> so much of the day is slack or zoom meetings that i end up having to work late at night to actually accomplish anything
23:24:42 <supermop_Home> also my remote connection to my workstation at the office seems to work better late at night
23:29:11 <TrueBrain> I like when I can disable my webcam or put something silly on it, as that means I can walk around the house freely
23:29:16 <TrueBrain> which makes calls a lot better
23:39:28 <supermop_Home> unfortunately i am stuck in the one room as my wife is often in meetings in the other!
23:48:52 <TrueBrain> welcome to 2020; you get a new lifestyle, and you get a new lifestyle, and you get a new ...
23:56:20 <TrueBrain> okay, over IPv4 the content service is working now
23:56:24 <TrueBrain> how am I going to test IPv6 .. hmm
continue to next day ⏵
