IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-04-23
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00:23:27 <hythlodaeus> so what will be the main changes to bananas? kinda curios about it?
00:26:23 <FLHerne> "open windows on hover"
00:27:06 <FLHerne> That idea should be an instant GitHub ban :P
00:28:04 <hythlodaeus> I'd rather have that than tooltips for map objects
00:28:24 <FLHerne> I quite like the look of those tooltips
00:28:28 <glx> anyway the tooltips won't be able to display industries with 16 in/out
00:28:46 <FLHerne> But industries with 16 in/out are stupid, don't exist and never will
00:29:25 <FLHerne> They make no sense either in gaameplay or as part of an industry chain
00:29:52 <glx> oh even with less in/out, the limit is the number of arguments for the tooltip
00:30:00 <FLHerne> (and andythenorth isn't here, so he won't see this and do it out of spite :P)
00:30:03 <glx> and it's not easy to change
00:31:35 <hythlodaeus> It's just a redundant idea in the end. there's no pointi n havint to wait x-amount of miliseconds to open an object tooltip when you can just click on it and see the same info
00:32:31 *** hythlodaeus is now known as mcbanhas
00:32:34 <FLHerne> hythlodaeus: But then you have to close it again
00:33:09 <FLHerne> Clicking those tiny window-close buttons with a trackpad is a pain, and takes >> 250ms
00:33:34 <FLHerne> That closes all the windows
00:33:53 <mcbanhas> yeah i do that mostly :p
00:34:04 <FLHerne> And interrupts building stuff, IIRC?
00:34:35 <FLHerne> Yes, because it closes the infra toolbar unless you have that pinned
00:35:01 <FLHerne> Normally, the time you want information about something is when you're building stuff near it
00:35:18 <FLHerne> So you have a building toolbar open, and probably a tool active
00:36:05 <FLHerne> Pressing 'delete' interrupts that, unless you've pinned the toolbar
00:36:33 <FLHerne> And toolbars are unpinned each time you switch to a different one, so you haven't pinned the toolbar
00:37:18 <mcbanhas> just close the object window manually then. no god danged tooltips on object maps repeating info
00:41:38 <FLHerne> By that logic, most of the tooltips tell you about things you'd know if you clicked on them
00:41:58 <mcbanhas> hmm, I've changed my mind actually
00:42:42 <mcbanhas> Civ uses tooltips on map objects and it doesn't look half bad
00:44:04 <mcbanhas> and yeah i guess it would be useful to get info on map industries while placing stations and such
00:46:30 <FLHerne> I can sort of see the semantic argument against
00:47:16 <FLHerne> Elsewhere in the UI, tooltips tell you what clicking on something *does*, not a summary of the information it would contain
00:48:09 <mcbanhas> that's sort of what I meant with repeating info. Because you would have the info in the tooltip and in the window if you were to open it
00:48:13 <FLHerne> But having played OTTD for years, I'm pretty sure they're worth having
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04:01:03 <doug16k> how many hundreds of thousands of dollars is it supposed to cost for me to build a train station beside my airport? I spend about half an hour painting the place with trees and bulldozing and painting and bulldozing and then gave them $300k for local road construction.
04:02:43 <doug16k> I'd make a crater of the town if I could
04:03:41 <doug16k> can you add "terrorist attack" to the list of things you can do in the town authority?
04:04:38 <doug16k> it would be fun to destroy towns that piss me off
04:08:49 <doug16k> oops, looks like that airplane didn't quite land correctly. sorry for the devastation
04:10:13 <doug16k> we don't know how the pilot had a parachute
05:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> terrorist attacks didn't yet work like that when the game was released
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09:08:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 opened pull request #16: Format the elements in the page header https://git.io/JfIW0
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12:00:46 <FLHerne> doug16k: Town actions don't help your reputation
12:01:17 <Wolf01> Always nice when you have an application in production for 2 months and nobody noticed a critical error...
12:01:29 <FLHerne> doug16k: The only thing you can do to instantly boost your reputation is to plant trees, but only on tiles that previously didn't have any
12:02:03 <FLHerne> doug16k: Having stations with a good rating in a town causes your reputation to increase over time
12:02:37 <FLHerne> And having more stations, up to four, increases the speed of town growth
12:03:09 <FLHerne> So a common suggestion is to build a small bus network early on in each town you might be interested in
12:03:52 <FLHerne> doug16k: With trees, there's a bit of a hack if there's no space available to plant them
12:04:50 <FLHerne> Normally demolishing trees hurts your reputation more than planting new ones
12:05:29 <FLHerne> But if you demolish *loads* of trees, your rating reaches the lower limit and can't get any worse
12:06:02 <doug16k> oops. ya I messed up :)
12:06:12 <doug16k> I got a false positive trying it once before
12:06:20 <FLHerne> Oh, or bribes, of course
12:07:00 <doug16k> false positive trying demolish+recreate trees to get it to let me build. seemed to work once
12:07:21 <doug16k> probably just didnt do far enough planting
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12:08:06 <doug16k> I gave $1.3 million bribe and still didn't work
12:08:18 <FLHerne> For demolish->replace to work, you have to do it on about 200 tiles according to the wiki
12:08:26 <doug16k> is that supposed to be possible?
12:09:09 <FLHerne> I think it's an accepted hack at this point :P
12:09:40 <FLHerne> Preventing it somehow would just annoy people
12:09:42 <doug16k> how can you tell if the bribe was successful or not?
12:10:06 <doug16k> it just showed ridiculous $ amount float up and nothing
12:10:07 <FLHerne> It's always successful unless you get the 'Regional Investigator' popup
12:10:36 <FLHerne> But your rating can go down to -1000, and a bribe is only +100
12:10:40 <doug16k> so I did successful gigantic bribe and +800 won't et me build?
12:11:19 <doug16k> ok thanks for explaining. that was ruining it a bit for me but now I see what's going on
12:11:41 <FLHerne> So you could need up to four to build a station, or five to demolish roads or even more to demolish buildings
12:12:16 <FLHerne> Best way is definitely to build a few buses or something and just not have a terrible reputation :P
12:12:37 <doug16k> there is a large airport in their city of mine
12:12:55 <FLHerne> Depends on its station rating
12:13:08 <doug16k> raking in a fortune emptying into jumbo jets over and over
12:13:15 <FLHerne> Airports often get hugely overloaded, so you have loads of waiting passengers and the rating falls
12:13:29 <FLHerne> Even if they're well-served
12:13:52 <FLHerne> (because state-machine-based custom airports of arbitrary size don't exist yet :-( )
12:14:22 <doug16k> 148 passengers, 48 bags of mail right now. is that good?
12:14:50 <FLHerne> By airport standards, that's positively great, even
12:15:14 <FLHerne> Did you build your railway through a bazillion trees and *then* try to build the station?
12:15:29 <FLHerne> Always best to do it the other way round, cities really love their trees
12:15:46 <doug16k> it hits 0 when a plane arrives
12:16:03 <doug16k> probably a bazillion trees ya
12:17:24 <doug16k> it's this crazy oil tanker backbone all across the top of the map, bringing untold loads to refinery way down the shore, with giant 8 rail max length station fed by docks, fed by 5 or 6 tankers
12:17:26 <FLHerne> If the airport has a good rating, your local-authority reputation will improve again over time
12:17:39 <FLHerne> Of course that might not help Right Now :P
12:18:49 <doug16k> oh and I have the map on 1024x1024
12:19:24 <doug16k> so it's like 30-40 trains whizzing by with oil all day every day
12:20:17 <doug16k> love conditional jump, can skip to unload and bypass when full
12:21:35 <doug16k> is it bad to have a giant 8 rail dock with up to a million oil in it at times?
12:21:44 <doug16k> if so they are furious about that
12:22:11 <FLHerne> Hm, I've always found it awkward to manage capacity with conditional orders, so +1 if you've got it to work
12:22:52 <FLHerne> A million litres == 1000 of other cargos, so that's a fair bit but not ridiculous
12:23:01 <FLHerne> Really, just check the rating
12:23:34 <FLHerne> Oh, correction, I read the wiki and it doesn't matter...
12:24:21 <FLHerne> Town reputation goes up each month for stations that transferred cargo in the last 50 days, and down (more) for ones that didn't
12:24:47 <FLHerne> Amount waiting will hurt the station rating, but for a transfer station that doesn't matter
12:25:17 <FLHerne> I thought town reputation took the station rating into account, but it doesn't, only if it's serviced at all
12:30:36 <Samu> holy smokes! looks like testing for aqueducts of length 4096 was slowing the pathfinder by a great deal!
12:30:51 <Samu> because it was testing each tile
12:31:16 <Samu> now, when it reaches the border or the map, it stops the search
12:32:00 <FLHerne> Isn't there a maximum bridge length << 4096?
12:32:36 <Samu> I set it to 4096, the max allowed
12:34:05 <Samu> the map was 256x256, so there was no point to search offsets higer than 256, 4096 means it would eventually reach the other axis
12:34:31 <Samu> wraps from one border to the other
12:54:58 <Samu> holy smokes again! something that used to take 40 days, now takes 5
12:58:01 <Samu> granted im testing this with 250k ops/very fast
12:58:12 <Samu> but let me test defaults 10k/medium
13:01:33 <Samu> ah snap can't change opcodes in a running game
13:15:50 <Samu> oh snap, those 5 days translate into 544 days on 10k ops/medium
13:18:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] andythenorth commented on pull request #16: Format the elements in the page header https://git.io/JfIav
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14:57:12 <Samu> ah, the adqueduct bug strikes again
14:58:54 <Samu> that lock should not have been built
15:05:17 <LordAro> Samu: when there's enough things backportable to make it worthwhile :p
15:05:30 <LordAro> at present, i think it's just yours...
15:06:26 <peter1138> Maybe it's connected indirectly ;)
15:07:11 <peter1138> Also, VS Code is much nicer than Notepad++
15:10:05 <Samu> does it have squirrel? so far nothing has squirrel support
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15:23:19 <Samu> I don't know if i should bother with workarounds
15:23:44 <Samu> i have code that works around the bug, but then once next openttd is released, this code becomes obsolete
15:24:03 <LordAro> Samu: i'd suggest that the chances of that actually happening in a "real" scenario are pretty slim
15:27:57 <Samu> my dilema is... keep testing 1.10.1 or switch to current master ver
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15:34:25 <peter1138> If you're targetting a release, stick with that.
15:34:34 <peter1138> If you're trying to test OpenTTD, test master.
15:37:01 <Samu> im targetting a release, just not sure when
15:37:35 <Samu> eventually, as soon as the current stable openttd has it fixed, i just hope it's not for next year
15:45:09 <Samu> currently, I'm in the phase of bug hunting, performance improvement
15:45:20 <Samu> I consider it pretty much finished
15:46:56 <nielsm> amazing! I can hear stuff again!
15:57:49 <Wolf01> That's my reaction when I start netflix and unplug the headset I forgot from the daily calls
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16:50:07 <doug16k> why can't I pick maglev construction if available trains has all the maglev stuff?
16:50:40 <doug16k> monorail can be selected. no monorail cars exist
16:51:16 <doug16k> built from master last friday
16:54:01 <doug16k> weird, just converted some stuff to it to check and I can build it
16:55:53 <doug16k> I could have sworn it asked if I wanted to try out a maglev engine
17:07:38 <doug16k> is it supposed to be possible for a monorail to get stuck on a short stretch of electrified track and wiggle back and forth a foot or so? when I try to convert it says a train is in the way
17:08:27 <doug16k> 7 squares long, monorail train is entirely on top of electrified tracks
17:09:04 <doug16k> none of the conversion was done when any trains were on that whole circuit
17:10:35 <doug16k> ah I know what it is. ok I'll wait a long time before asking next time lol
17:11:15 <doug16k> guess I have to kamakaze another train into it
17:12:46 <Wolf01> Yeah, you should send all the trains to depot, convert (even the depot) and replace the trains with the new type
17:36:08 <FLHerne> doug16k: How did you manage that?
17:36:23 <FLHerne> You shouldn't be able to get a monorail onto electrified track at all
17:44:19 <_dp_> I bet it's just not a monorail train
18:20:54 <_dp_> is there an easy way to see engine id it the game?
18:27:41 <FLHerne> nielsm: You can't convert if there's a train on the tile
18:28:03 <FLHerne> (if the railtype isn't compatible)
18:28:11 <FLHerne> Or at least you shouldn't be able to...
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18:45:26 <Wolf01> FLHerne: there are some railtypes which allow compatibility in one direction for conversion, or just use universal rail type
18:47:45 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.890818858561
18:48:21 <Samu> amazing, there's more time to gain from that aqueduct check
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19:18:43 * andythenorth predicts a bonfire
19:19:39 <andythenorth> they have to be valid for closing eh
19:20:05 <andythenorth> at first glance, they're all VERY IMPORTANT
19:26:28 <TrueBrain> you glanced in 2 minutes of 110 issues?
19:26:32 <TrueBrain> I dont believe that
19:39:11 <andythenorth> how is lockdown going TrueBrain?
19:42:05 <rotterdxm> hey andythenorth, still playing FIRS 4. i am having some weirdness with kaolin being transferred instead of deposited at the paper mill.
19:42:14 <rotterdxm> i can try to replicate
19:42:26 <andythenorth> do you have a 'no loading' order?
19:42:55 <andythenorth> do you have cdist?
19:43:03 <rotterdxm> yes but only for passengers/mail
19:43:31 <rotterdxm> i had ´through load´ accidentally set at the originating station
19:43:38 <rotterdxm> but that didn´t fix it
19:44:09 <andythenorth> newgrf is very limited in influence on station
19:44:16 <andythenorth> either the industry and tiles accept, or they don't
19:44:41 <andythenorth> might be worth checking the land info tool on the industry tiles
19:45:07 <rotterdxm> when i set force unload they behaved as normal
19:45:32 <rotterdxm> but maybe it´s related to the new-ish catchment area setting...
19:46:11 <andythenorth> could be a FIRS acceptance bug, there are new methods for tile acceptance
19:46:27 <andythenorth> not something I've seen, unwanted transfers are usually caused by cdist backlinks
19:46:36 <rotterdxm> i figured something like that
19:47:03 <rotterdxm> because i just started using cdist recently
19:47:45 <rotterdxm> well, will report back when i find out a bit more. btw i am having a doozy of a time telling the 3 vehicle part factories apart in Steeltown because they look identical.
19:48:49 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: we are not in a lockdown. We are in a "smart" lockdown
19:50:38 <andythenorth> rotterdxm $somebody needs to draw sprites for those eh :)
19:50:48 * andythenorth is actually looking forward to drawing those
19:51:43 <rotterdxm> well i already offered to send some sprites before, but if you want to draw em i will gladly see what you come up with. but maybe just shuffle the buildings around a bit or something, maybe some different cargo tiles instead of them all looking identical?
19:52:05 <andythenorth> I would like to :)
19:52:17 <andythenorth> but someone has to release nml, and reskin bananas, and reduce the OpenTTD issue count
19:52:31 <TrueBrain> just do everything at once
19:52:52 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I am :)
19:53:04 <rotterdxm> just giving some feedback
19:53:11 <andythenorth> appreciated, and I agree
19:53:53 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it doesn't publish it to OpenTTD CDN, but to PyPi
19:54:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro approved pull request #97: Cleanup: remove .devzone dir, no longer required https://git.io/JfISy
19:54:49 <andythenorth> LordAro I tend to agree, but now I have to fix opengfx also :P
19:55:02 <rotterdxm> what´s needing a fix?
19:55:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #97: Cleanup: remove .devzone dir, no longer required https://git.io/JfTBj
19:55:28 <TrueBrain> they forgot to bring my magnums today :( So now I am without dessert ..
19:55:32 <TrueBrain> how do I survive this?
19:55:55 <TrueBrain> that is an expensive way to resolve that
19:56:20 <LordAro> you're the one who wanted magnums
19:57:50 <andythenorth> scooter to holland
20:06:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS https://git.io/Je8mF
20:06:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7767: Large numbers of trains and signals cause low FPS https://git.io/Je8mF
20:06:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7770: Current-location indicator in orders list missing https://git.io/Je8Z9
20:06:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7770: Current-location indicator in orders list missing https://git.io/Je8Z9
20:08:16 <andythenorth> who would do that
20:09:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7629: Option to upscale game by nearest neighbour https://git.io/fjovw
20:10:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7618: Assertion failure loading savegame with missing grf https://git.io/fjzOC
20:10:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7618: Assertion failure loading savegame with missing grf https://git.io/fjzOC
20:18:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
20:18:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
20:19:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7839: [Suggestion] Addition of cargo icons in the corporate Industries window and all own windows of industries https://git.io/JeKsc
20:19:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7839: [Suggestion] Addition of cargo icons in the corporate Industries window and all own windows of industries https://git.io/JeKsc
20:19:55 <andythenorth> I should stop, I make people sad
20:26:47 <rotterdxm> because suggested features not implemented?
20:29:49 <andythenorth> mostly because channel spam
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20:39:06 <andythenorth> you won't be able to find my actual PR in that spam :P
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20:43:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #42: Document how to release nmlc, including building a windows binary https://git.io/Je8vQ
20:50:05 <LordAro> wait, why is the release CI running
20:50:58 <LordAro> because "branches: - master"
20:51:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro opened pull request #101: Fix: [Actions] Only run the release pipeline on release https://git.io/JfIQY
20:58:40 <andythenorth> I'm minded to approve that
20:58:49 <andythenorth> don't really know what it does, but looks sensible
20:59:07 <LordAro> means it doesn't run the release pipeline everytime master branch gets updated
20:59:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth approved pull request #101: Fix: [Actions] Only run the release pipeline on release https://git.io/JfIQz
21:02:08 <andythenorth> oh we're all clapping
21:02:12 * andythenorth does some clapping
21:02:19 <LordAro> i was wondering what the clanging noise outside was
21:04:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth merged pull request #101: Fix: [Actions] Only run the release pipeline on release https://git.io/JfIQY
21:06:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on issue #43: Release nml 0.5.x to provide NotRoadTypes support for nml authors https://git.io/Je8v7
21:07:09 <Samu> can't squeeze more performance out of this GetAqueduct check
21:08:55 <Samu> hey _dp_, since you're an expert in getting more performance out of things..
21:14:08 <Samu> oops line 29 is to be removed, that was a leftover i forgot to delete
21:14:51 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.841191066998
21:18:18 <andythenorth> LordAro should we be concerned about the recently failing checks on nml?
21:18:46 <LordAro> andythenorth: that's what #101 fixes :p
21:19:34 <andythenorth> ok so when we run push only a tagged version, #100 should not manifest
21:20:20 <LordAro> though we do need to address #100 separately
21:20:34 <LordAro> currently it's trying to push nml with a broken revision to pypi
21:20:56 <andythenorth> #100 is just another variant of 'get a rev from git'?
21:21:04 <andythenorth> like for everywhere else since we moved to git?
21:21:53 <andythenorth> seems in newgrf I just take number of commits in current branch
21:22:01 <andythenorth> and cross-branch versions aren't safe :)
21:22:31 <andythenorth> revision = exe_cmd(['git', 'rev-list', '--count', 'HEAD'])
21:23:49 <_dp_> Samu, I know nothing about squirrel performance
21:24:04 <_dp_> only noticed you can skip IsValidTile check and test height for -1 instead
21:24:52 <Samu> the valid tile check is there to avoid wrap
21:24:59 <Samu> going through the borders
21:25:41 <Samu> hmm let me see if I can do without it
21:25:59 <_dp_> GetMaxHeight checks for valid tile
21:26:04 <andythenorth> nml changelog is relatively large this time
21:26:13 <andythenorth> not released since 2018 :)
21:26:27 <_dp_> though idk how expensive are api calls from squirrel, may not be any faster
21:27:50 <nielsm> squirrel doesn't do any JIT so I don't think calls back to the host are particularly much more expensive than regular object manipulation
21:28:14 <Samu> 338 now! thx _dp_ 1 less tick
21:29:21 <Samu> i suppose i need a bigger sample, 338 ticks is a too short sample
21:29:27 <_dp_> Samu, well, if you're hunting every tick you can try moving e_max_height > s_max_height before minheight call)
21:30:58 <Samu> holy crap, 261 ticks? that can't be right, right?
21:31:59 <Samu> how do u spot these obvious things...!
21:32:16 <nielsm> experience is my guess
21:34:34 <nielsm> just one with everything, or do the layout cache thing first and then add the buttons feature on
21:35:26 <glx> which then calls stuff in the commit you're looking at
21:36:15 <andythenorth> I'm not planning to try and fix this, beyond my skills
21:36:15 <Samu> I don't see aqueducts being built now, I guess it's wrong
21:36:40 <_dp_> Samu, well, that condition looks wrong indeed but moving it around should'n rly change much
21:37:32 <glx> just need to fix line 125 and 127 in this file I think
21:38:32 <Samu> it builds aqueducts but tiny ones
21:38:45 <_dp_> ah, nvm, I thought it builds tunnels for whatever reason xD
21:39:47 <Samu> i think the swap isn't working too well, i was supposed to see more aqueducts
21:40:01 <_dp_> e_min_height < s_min_height looks fishy then
21:40:20 <_dp_> should be continue not return afaict
21:41:07 <Samu> height difference between min and max can be 2
21:41:16 <Samu> if it's 2, aqueducts can't be built
21:41:42 <Samu> but I better have my old function back and do an assert comparing the results of both
21:44:03 <_dp_> Samu, huh? aqueducts can be built over gap of any depth afaict like any other bridge
21:46:06 <Samu> that one would result 403 ticks
21:47:10 <_dp_> well, ofc, it can make more bridges after all
21:47:25 <Samu> it can only make 1 aqueduct
21:47:38 <_dp_> Samu, you should replicate checks that CmdBuildBridge does
21:49:33 <_dp_> toes command waste a tick if it fails test?
21:51:08 <_dp_> don't think so, so probably only checks for max height and objects make sense
21:52:21 <_dp_> basically, for anything that will fail every longer bridge
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21:53:05 <nielsm> a command should only cost a tick if it executes
21:53:14 <nielsm> as far as I understand
21:54:27 * andythenorth had rice AND chips
21:58:22 <frosch123> i should probably install black or something
22:02:43 <andythenorth> when is the bananas deadline?
22:02:44 <Samu> back to 338 ticks, the results for 261 were asserting
22:03:23 <LordAro> andythenorth: i think blathijs said this weekend?
22:03:57 <andythenorth> I have themed 80% of new bananas to the old theme
22:04:06 <frosch123> either 2020-04-30 or 2020-05-06, i am not sure about the fine print
22:04:08 <andythenorth> I've kind of run out of brain for the rest today
22:04:20 <andythenorth> I need to write the nml changelog before bedtime
22:05:08 <andythenorth> basically manager forms need theming
22:13:00 <Samu> gonna content myself with 338 ticks for now
22:14:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 opened issue #34: /package/<content-type>/<unique-id> gives 200 for unknown unique-id https://git.io/JfIdz
22:16:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 opened issue #35: /package/<content-type>/<unique-id>/<upload-date> gives 500 for unknown unique-id/upload-date https://git.io/JfIdw
22:20:01 <TrueBrain> don't care if you fix it or not :)
22:20:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 opened issue #36: Cache validation result of individual uploaded files https://git.io/JfIdH
22:21:07 <TrueBrain> right ... I finally have the beginning of the NLB running .. it now spins up 2 EC2 instances, and it can start Traefik
22:21:12 <Samu> it starts with the inability for API to get the "other depot tile"
22:21:14 <TrueBrain> now .. I need to write the config, and automate it
22:21:18 <TrueBrain> should be done by the end of tomorrow :D
22:21:22 <Samu> so that code is the workaround
22:22:07 <Samu> _dp_, any hints for improving performance
22:22:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #36: Cache validation result of individual uploaded files https://git.io/JfIdH
22:24:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 dismissed a review for pull request #17: PR of the day https://git.io/JfIdy
22:24:47 <TrueBrain> just improving your Python skills frosch123 :P :P :P
22:25:19 <frosch123> i still refuse to use f""
22:25:25 <TrueBrain> AWS and CDK can be fun .. took 2 hours to write 20 lines of code :P
22:25:26 <frosch123> mixing code and formatting is bad
22:25:56 <TrueBrain> there is a high chance there will be a PR sooner or later changing all your mix of "" + "" and .format() into f-strings, I am afraid
22:26:25 <TrueBrain> f-strings are nice, as they make things a lot more readable. But I agree it is mixing two worlds. Just the alternatives are kinda worse ..
22:26:35 <TrueBrain> but I have this issue with all languages
22:26:45 <TrueBrain> especially when you consider translations
22:27:46 <TrueBrain> you think we can go live by then frosch123 ?
22:27:54 <frosch123> c++ took 22 years to replace operator<< with .format, now python does the opposite :p
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22:28:11 <TrueBrain> well, << is equal to the Python + I guess?
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22:28:35 <andythenorth> they're passingly similar to using template
22:29:06 * andythenorth learns a new thing
22:29:37 <TrueBrain> considering we are the worst in beta-testing things like BaNaNaS anyway, I guess a few days of beta-testing is more than sufficient :D
22:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never understood C++ << operator
22:29:59 <TrueBrain> we just ask a few people to upload something, and if that works, YOLO?
22:30:12 <andythenorth> YOLO, LOL, P4NWED?
22:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> why not use + instead like normal languages?
22:30:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you know from the top of you head, do upload-token expire?
22:30:49 <mcbanhas_> so what exactly will change with these so-called BaNaNaS upgrades?
22:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> also, python's .format() is rather new? in python2 it was done by %
22:31:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes, after 15 minutes
22:31:12 <frosch123> it occured to me that people would start a 1GB upload, go for a walk, and want to publish their stuff after 4 hours
22:31:39 <TrueBrain> what I want to prevent, is the disk getting full
22:31:45 <TrueBrain> there is ~20GB of temporary disk
22:31:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause real people do 'foo ' + bar + ' more foo ' + cabbage.get_name()
22:31:53 <andythenorth> none of this % stuff
22:32:00 <andythenorth> imagine the i18n
22:32:04 <TrueBrain> so we need to have a balance between the system surviving, and how people will use it
22:32:16 <frosch123> TrueBrain: frontend session expires after 16 hours
22:32:16 <TrueBrain> mcbanhas_: how do you mean, "so-called"? :)
22:32:27 <_dp_> I switched to newer python just for the f-strings when it first released
22:32:29 <frosch123> so i suggest to make upload-tokens expire together with their session
22:32:45 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have no issue to start with these kind of values
22:32:54 <TrueBrain> we can always lower it if there is an issue
22:33:12 <mcbanhas_> TrueBrain: just a figured of speech
22:33:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: API sessions expire after 14 hours btw :P
22:33:47 <TrueBrain> frosch123: but I synced the frontend to the same value
22:33:54 <TrueBrain> when I was copy/pasting stuff
22:34:01 <TrueBrain> so frontend is equal to API
22:34:13 <TrueBrain> mcbanhas_: what do you want to know?
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22:35:02 <andythenorth> would anyone write the nml 0.5 changelog? Then I can style some more bananas instead
22:35:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: but, yea or nah to the deadline of the 30th? You see any blockers?
22:35:33 <mcbanhas_> TrueBrain: just give me a quick rundown
22:36:30 * andythenorth really likes flask, it's so simple
22:37:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: in current state, the first complaint will be from samu, when he cannot upload his next ai/library :)
22:37:12 <mcbanhas_> TrueBrain: How can I help testing?
22:37:34 <TrueBrain> mcbanhas_: try breaking it, and try if it works :)
22:38:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is a fair complaint; so we have to fix that before launch
22:38:28 <TrueBrain> I hope we can test in-game support this weekend
22:38:41 <Samu> BaNaNaS (staging) by OpenTTD
22:38:41 <Samu> wants to access your SamuXarick account
22:38:52 <_dp_> lol wtf, scrolling login name xD
22:39:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: owh, and of course we need a way to change packages from OpenTTD accounts to GitHub accounts
22:39:11 <TrueBrain> still no clue what is the easiest approach there :D
22:39:23 <frosch123> should i regret that the marquee is mentioned every day?
22:39:32 <TrueBrain> yes :D You should :D
22:39:37 <TrueBrain> (and because of that, enjoy it :D)
22:40:06 <frosch123> TrueBrain: good point, the frontpage should give instructions
22:40:23 <TrueBrain> and .. we should have a procedure :P
22:40:45 <TrueBrain> I have an idea, but I have to test it out. But I am sure we figure this out
22:41:02 <TrueBrain> worst case the instructions are: create an issue on GitHub :P
22:41:19 <TrueBrain> it is not like we have THAT many uploaders a month :P
22:41:28 <TrueBrain> owh, and one other thing: we currently don't have download stats
22:41:40 <frosch123> i thought that's a feature
22:41:50 <frosch123> i sorted the list by upload-date of latest version
22:41:52 <TrueBrain> what my issue is a bit: of course I can fix the current BaNaNaS to live a bit longer, but postponing this only means adding months, not weeks :P
22:41:55 <frosch123> that's more useful imo
22:42:17 <TrueBrain> but it is nice to know, I guess .. e-peen
22:42:22 <TrueBrain> not doing it is cheaper :P
22:42:35 <frosch123> does s3 have such stats?
22:42:40 <mcbanhas_> Anything you'd might recommending that can act as stress-testing, beyond randomly clicking everything on screen?
22:42:48 <TrueBrain> but there are access-logs, I guess
22:43:06 <TrueBrain> mcbanhas_: upload a scenario, a heightmap, a newgrf, a base set, a script
22:43:32 <frosch123> mcbanhas_: scenarios and heightmaps are most untested (from my point of view)
22:43:42 <Samu> there is a new version of opengfx available
22:43:52 <Samu> 0.5.5 is newer than 0.6.0 apparently
22:44:10 <TrueBrain> you clicked from where?
22:44:12 <TrueBrain> as that URL is wrong
22:44:27 <TrueBrain> and why isn't sentry creating a traceback for me ..
22:44:40 <Samu> Please use version 0.5.5 for new games
22:44:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] auge8472 commented on pull request #16: Format the elements in the page header https://git.io/JfIF5
22:45:02 <TrueBrain> (and the 0.6.0 vs 0.5.5 is me being funny, to be clear)
22:45:04 <LordAro> version new-ness is based on upload date, rather than version number?
22:45:15 <frosch123> ah yes, i noticed, the frontend has no 404 page, only 500
22:45:32 <LordAro> i guess that makes sense, given there's no sane way to determine ordering
22:45:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah, it isn't even a backtrace :D It is the API failed flow
22:46:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: and in the future, we will allow setting what is available for new games and what is not
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22:46:35 <glx> samu is very good to find unusual bugs :)
22:46:36 <TrueBrain> but yeah ... if you upload an older version later in time ... that sounds like a rare event :P
22:46:36 <milek7> how i'm supposed to upload script? .tar?
22:46:43 <TrueBrain> file-by-file, for now
22:46:48 <TrueBrain> there is a ticket to add tar/zip support
22:46:54 <TrueBrain> so no folder support for now via the webinterface
22:46:57 <TrueBrain> use the CLI for that :)
22:46:58 <andythenorth> something is fucked up in these styles
22:47:04 * andythenorth is just grumbling aloud
22:47:04 <blathijs> LordAro: andythenorth: Did I say anything about a bananas deadline this weekend? Huh?
22:47:11 <LordAro> blathijs: an nml deadline
22:47:12 <andythenorth> I need a css linter
22:47:13 <frosch123> milek7: ai may work, gs are impossible
22:47:19 <milek7> how to specify subdirectories?
22:47:20 <frosch123> it won't accept your lang files
22:47:28 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we need to disable API failed loggings when people hit publish and validation fails btw. This will spam my logs :D
22:47:48 <andythenorth> oh frosch123 ha ha, I got smacked by the CSP for inline styles :D
22:47:54 <andythenorth> that's 10 minutes I won't get back
22:47:55 <LordAro> TrueBrain: can you not have more than one log? :p
22:48:19 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I have many many many logs; but logs should be clean, and only records stuff that I can fix :)
22:48:35 <blathijs> LordAro: Yeah, that was 2020-05-05 (actually a bit before, since I need to package, test and upload a new version before then)
22:48:49 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i noticed that you can access the page for editing content of other people by hand-crafting the url. you will only get an error on post
22:49:00 <blathijs> Not a hard deadline though, I can always just backport the fix and upload that.
22:49:01 <frosch123> i guess that counts is punishment?
22:49:14 <LordAro> blathijs: nah, we should be good for a new nml release in the next couple of days
22:49:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: on the web or on the API?
22:49:20 <andythenorth> I no longer debate inline styles with anyone :P
22:49:28 <andythenorth> nobody has ever been able to show they're not in the spec :P
22:49:42 <LordAro> TrueBrain: until you need to debug why someone is complaining about validation failures?
22:49:57 <andythenorth> does anyone here actually know how to write css?
22:50:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: there are other ways for that; and these logs are not application logs :)
22:50:16 <TrueBrain> it is very simple .. every log-line costs money
22:50:16 <LordAro> andythenorth: "it depends"
22:50:21 <andythenorth> how do I target nested elements in a maintainable way?
22:50:30 <andythenorth> oh nvm, we're deleting all this next month anyway
22:50:35 * andythenorth only writes LESS
22:50:42 <andythenorth> haven't done css for about 10 years
22:51:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the API only has one GET. but the frontend has two pages, which both call the same API GET, but one display the info as-it, and the other displays it as form for editing
22:51:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah; so that is fine I guess :)
22:51:25 <frosch123> so non-owners can get the form, edit stuff, and then get rejected on post
22:52:16 <TrueBrain> milek7: let mecheck where we fucked up
22:53:41 <TrueBrain> milek7: don't end the api-url with a slash
22:54:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain opened issue #5: Ending the API URL on a slash results in an error https://git.io/JfIbt
22:55:26 <TrueBrain> that of course is a very temporary issue
22:55:37 <LordAro> andythenorth: well it's basically the same, except without the nesting and the (nicer) variables
22:55:39 <TrueBrain> but you found a bug nevertheless :D
22:56:18 <TrueBrain> I see people trying really long URLs :D
22:56:48 <Xaroth> break alllll the things
22:56:53 <TrueBrain> frosch123: so, no more download stats?
22:57:39 <frosch123> it's a nice-to-have for owners
22:57:55 <TrueBrain> I can keep logs for now, so we can update the stats later, I guess
22:57:56 <frosch123> but public ones are misleading and meh
22:58:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the logs contain content-id, unique-id and md5sum(-partial)?
22:59:10 <milek7> CLI didn't ask for TOS acceptance :P
22:59:11 <frosch123> i.e. something to identify the exact version of the content
22:59:34 <TrueBrain> I have access logs on the ALB and CloudFront, on the exact URL
22:59:44 <TrueBrain> so for the downloads I have the exact file which was downloaded
22:59:52 <TrueBrain> longer answer to say: yes
23:00:09 <frosch123> do we care to port the stats from old bananas?
23:00:21 <frosch123> or is it a new season?
23:00:32 <TrueBrain> I will store them for now
23:00:40 <TrueBrain> so once we implement download-stats, we can add them
23:00:47 <TrueBrain> but I think the new system will not so much show total downloads
23:00:55 <TrueBrain> as that just increases with age
23:00:56 <LordAro> it would be a shame to lose them
23:01:02 <LordAro> but not a great loss if it's difficult to add
23:01:03 <TrueBrain> I think it is morelike: downloads last week, downloads last month
23:01:16 <frosch123> for transfering ownership from ottd, we should have a backup of displayname to email somewhere, before the ldap is killed
23:01:17 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it is more, what does it add (value-wise) to have them, except e-peen?
23:01:30 <TrueBrain> LDAP will be operational for a while
23:02:20 <TrueBrain> hmm, I guess a nice graph per package and per version, how they did over the last N time
23:02:32 <TrueBrain> we will figure something out
23:02:35 <TrueBrain> but yeah, not for now
23:02:39 <TrueBrain> I just store all information for now
23:02:42 <TrueBrain> and we parse that shit later :)
23:03:10 <andythenorth> frosch123 I styled the package info page, it's a bit of a car crash, but eh, done
23:03:22 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: PR it
23:03:42 <andythenorth> there's more to come
23:03:50 <TrueBrain> you don't have to do everything at once :)
23:03:51 <andythenorth> but I'll set the PR up
23:03:56 <TrueBrain> iterations are good :)
23:04:07 <andythenorth> LordAro you can build your own it takes 30s to get flask running
23:04:21 <LordAro> yeah, but i can't be bothered to checkout another PR
23:04:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: there are a lot of overlapping text with the new css, so some pages are unusable
23:04:39 <TrueBrain> when this is all done etc, I really want to look into deploying PRs to a staging :P
23:04:53 <andythenorth> I'm forked from frosch, so I can't PR to OpenTTD
23:05:27 <andythenorth> it's a static branch dedicated to styling
23:05:36 <frosch123> LordAro: don't shoot in his foot
23:05:37 <LordAro> so it'll be easy to rebase
23:05:48 <andythenorth> I think I stick to one thing at a time
23:07:00 <TrueBrain> if you get that in a state you are happy, I am sure one of us can help you get it rebased ready for PR andythenorth
23:07:05 <TrueBrain> don't waste your time on that for now plz :)
23:07:30 <TrueBrain> so forget about me asking for a PR, just continue as you go :)
23:07:51 <TrueBrain> awh, you used the bananas logo :D
23:07:54 <andythenorth> you can add me as remote if any of you badly want to see it
23:09:04 <TrueBrain> right; lets get a good night sleep, and tomorrow, lets fix this network routing issue on AWS, so we can also test ingame :D
23:09:09 <TrueBrain> that most likely will show a few more errors :P
23:09:23 <frosch123> is there somethnig similar to dict.update, that adds new keys, but does not replace existing ones?
23:09:44 <TrueBrain> that is a bit unusual to want, so I don't think so
23:10:08 <TrueBrain> for key, value in new_dict.items(): if key not in old_dict: old_dict[key] = value
23:10:39 <_dp_> a.update(p for p in b.items() if b[0] not in a)
23:10:59 <TrueBrain> was about to say :P
23:11:02 <frosch123> nah, then i rather do a 3-way swap
23:11:14 <TrueBrain> what-ever makes you feel happy
23:11:20 * andythenorth will do theme until 10.30
23:11:21 <Xaroth> map(lambda x, y: old_dict.setdefault(x, y), new_dict)
23:11:33 <TrueBrain> night all :) Keep the bugs coming, report them in the GitHub repos as you find them plz :) (with some details :P)
23:11:37 <frosch123> tmp = b; tmp.update(a), a = tmp
23:11:52 <frosch123> oh, that is an interesting option
23:11:58 <TrueBrain> you all scare the shit out of me :P
23:12:06 <TrueBrain> I am so happy performance is not an issue :P
23:12:12 <TrueBrain> but please don't make spagety Python
23:12:30 <TrueBrain> it is better to use fors like I used, than to do weird shit, because "it looks cool", but nobody really understands :P
23:12:41 <andythenorth> forms in tables eh :D
23:13:02 <TrueBrain> readability is kinda important these days in programming languages
23:13:05 <Xaroth> [old_dict.setdefault(key, value) for key, value in new_dict.items()] ?
23:13:32 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I am really going to find my bed here ... it seems something broke in this channel .. I think it is sanity :)
23:13:49 <Xaroth> Pretty sure it broke quite a while ago :P
23:13:52 <_dp_> ** thing is somewhat of an idiom
23:14:08 <andythenorth> are we golfing now?
23:14:23 <TrueBrain> pretty sure most people will have to read it a few times to understand; but I guess the fact what he asks is already something that requires a comment :)
23:14:24 <_dp_> it's like wtf for 1 minute when you first see it but pretty useful nonetheless
23:15:14 <TrueBrain> and _dp_ , let us know if your XSS works :P
23:15:38 <_dp_> idk, I'm getting rusty :(
23:15:51 <_dp_> it kinda should but doesn't
23:15:53 <andythenorth> form inputs might need some labels :D
23:15:58 <TrueBrain> your XSS looks fine; but I hope it is outputted in "safe" mode :)
23:17:42 * andythenorth wonders if jinja supports <!--! comments
23:18:02 <TrueBrain> _dp_: ^^ at least you found a bug :D
23:18:20 * andythenorth learns it doesn't
23:19:03 <_dp_> I have a feeling that my ff is too smart
23:19:41 <_dp_> It somehow fixes even broken html
23:19:46 <Xaroth> andythenorth: `{# commented stuff #}`
23:20:13 <Xaroth> but <!-- --> is still valid html, so jinja should not break over it
23:20:18 <andythenorth> yeah I wanted <!--!
23:20:56 <Xaroth> {# #} is more for template commenting, <!-- --> is more for output commenting
23:21:13 <Xaroth> (seeing the latter ends up what the client can see, the former gets removed from output altogether)
23:21:17 <_dp_> TrueBrain, btw, it validates for smth
23:21:50 <andythenorth> chameleon drops <!--! comments, but editors think they're html syntax, so apply syntax hinting nicely
23:22:04 <_dp_> TrueBrain, just seems to accept javascript as a valid url xD
23:22:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #18: Fix: link to latest version. https://git.io/JfIbd
23:23:00 <andythenorth> ouch, the 'upload new content' page :)
23:23:06 <andythenorth> that won't get done before bedtime
23:24:45 <andythenorth> quak package edit is done though
23:25:25 <frosch123> _dp_: the CSP is supposed to block all js in html elements
23:29:08 <andythenorth> "and now this channel is closing for the evening" :D
23:29:13 <andythenorth> we should do that, like TV used to
23:30:56 <_dp_> frosch123, oh, that thing... smartass modern browsers
23:32:55 <andythenorth> frosch123 I am being dense, can't find the template for 'This content is archived and is no longer available for new games.'
23:33:09 <frosch123> package_info and version_info
23:33:11 <andythenorth> we'll probably want to macro some of these repeating layours
23:33:31 <andythenorth> ah version, thanks )
23:33:37 <andythenorth> can't type, time for bed
23:33:37 <frosch123> i wondered about macroing the tos, but they are supposed to not change, so meh
23:34:13 <andythenorth> so most pages are done I think
23:34:25 <andythenorth> the quality of the work is...low :)
23:38:08 <andythenorth> it's so weird writing styles for specific page elements
23:38:17 <andythenorth> it's like 2001 called
23:38:48 <andythenorth> 20 year-old web design for our 30 year old game :D
23:40:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: i added today's fixes to the static branch
23:41:09 <frosch123> some templates changed slightly and may need merging
23:41:38 <andythenorth> yeah I get a rebase conflict
23:41:46 <andythenorth> tomorrow's problem
23:42:18 <frosch123> most noticeable, we gained a footer :)
23:42:39 <frosch123> 90% copy/paste from main website
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