IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-04-11
⏴ go to previous day
00:02:38 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
00:06:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8025: Remove: Support for macOS before 10.9 https://git.io/JvhCk
00:16:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] CheeseSprinkles commented on issue #8076: Odd Cursor Glitch When Moving Through Windows and Game https://git.io/JvhZm
00:16:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] CheeseSprinkles commented on issue #8076: Odd Cursor Glitch When Moving Through Windows and Game https://git.io/JvhZm
00:19:36 *** Michael___ has joined #openttd
00:19:49 *** Michael___ has left #openttd
00:48:25 *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
01:20:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:49:38 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd
03:20:21 *** Laedek_ has joined #openttd
07:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i got this game "endzone" which is sorta like banished, but with radiation and post apocalyptic ruins and stuff
07:54:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:13:39 *** mindlesstux6 has joined #openttd
08:57:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
09:11:45 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:23:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:28:18 <andythenorth> I have broken my ability to count
09:28:24 <andythenorth> I now start enumerating at 0
09:28:34 <andythenorth> due to programming
09:28:53 <andythenorth> "how many chairs at this table?"
09:28:57 <Wolf01> That's right, is there any other way?
09:29:17 <andythenorth> then count the length of the list
09:29:28 <Wolf01> Wait, don't confuse array.length with array index
09:29:40 <andythenorth> I know, that's my point :(
09:29:50 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
09:30:13 <debdog> common programmer's illness
09:31:32 <Wolf01> In italian "what do you need?" is "cosa ti serve?", I always write "server".
09:32:40 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC
09:41:36 *** rotterdxm has joined #openttd
10:04:05 <andythenorth> hmm industry sizes
10:04:36 <andythenorth> nielsm remember your industry layout patch? :)
10:13:26 <peter1138> I don't remember, I don't recall
10:13:32 <peter1138> I got no memory, of anything at all
10:22:04 <andythenorth> nielsm was it stuck on the nml format? o_O
10:22:56 <nielsm> no actually reworking it entirely to be callback instead of table based
10:23:42 <andythenorth> I had a complementary idea
10:23:48 <andythenorth> allow attaching objects to an industry
10:23:56 <andythenorth> let the player do it
10:24:15 <andythenorth> not sure if it's stupid or not :)
10:37:47 <Wolf01> But to station attached to the industry to boost the production and storage
10:38:16 <Wolf01> A sort of useful non station tiles, instead of eyecandy
10:39:37 <andythenorth> I want slightly larger industries
10:43:27 <andythenorth> maybe I just do 5x5
10:45:25 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
10:45:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
11:10:17 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
11:19:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/content-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the content_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/Jvi4P
11:20:02 <TrueBrain> these two are no longer Draft PRs :)
11:21:27 <peter1138> I... just discovered a bottle of Calvados that I forgot about.
11:21:31 <peter1138> So, er... is it too early?
11:22:15 <peter1138> Of course, I don't really.
11:22:25 <peter1138> If I actually had such a problem, I wouldn't be asking :p
11:22:37 <TrueBrain> that is what a drunk would say :P
11:22:45 <peter1138> I only have a problem with eating currently, heh.
11:22:54 <TrueBrain> too much or too little? :)
11:23:20 <TrueBrain> I have a problem with excersice .. this working from home crap is crap
11:24:12 <TrueBrain> okay, so how am I going to deploy this on AWS .. euhm ..
11:24:19 <TrueBrain> that requires me to know how things currently work, I guss
11:33:57 * andythenorth has an exercise bike
11:34:00 <andythenorth> it's sooooo boring
11:40:59 *** arikover has joined #openttd
11:44:04 <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS uses a lot of domains .. and not everything makes sense :D
11:44:17 <TrueBrain> "content.openttd.org" is used for the ingame client over our custom port
11:44:36 <TrueBrain> "binaries.openttd.org" is used to try to fetch HTTP downloads, which is redirected to what-ever the server tells it
11:45:02 <TrueBrain> and currently that means that a single URL in that last domain is used for a dynamic piece, and the rest is used for static data
11:46:44 <TrueBrain> ah, and it is also used by NSIS
11:47:23 <nielsm> it's kind of a problem having to support old versions of ottd that can't be flexible
11:48:01 <TrueBrain> it is always difficult, yes :)
11:48:15 <TrueBrain> owh, and binaries also redirects people who have old download URLs
11:48:55 <TrueBrain> okay, this is complicated :D
11:50:12 <TrueBrain> I want a tablet I can draw on :(
11:54:02 *** blathijs has joined #openttd
11:59:41 <TrueBrain> owh, and we of course also have grfsearch .. forgot about that ..
12:00:06 <TrueBrain> pretty sure I did not deploy opengfx-0.6.0 correctly for NSIS :)
12:00:25 <TrueBrain> that is to say, an rsync is no longer happening which I asusmed was :P
13:11:35 <TrueBrain> okay ... after some debugging, binaries.openttd.org never serves any files, only redirects people to other places. I can work with that :)
13:28:47 <andythenorth> newgrf control of towns?
13:30:29 *** Webster has joined #openttd
13:33:44 <nielsm> I'd rather have larger town buildings first
13:35:43 <nielsm> otoh that's also dependent on someone being willing to make new buildings...
13:36:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. am I going to serve BaNaNaS files from cdn.openttd.org, or shall I name it cdn.bananas.openttd.org .. hmm
13:37:11 <LordAro> or bananas.cdn.openttd.org !
13:37:29 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is what I needed, more options :P
13:37:46 <TrueBrain> okay, its own subdomain means its own S3 bucket, and that makes things a bit easier
13:38:13 <andythenorth> nielsm rescale the game? o_O
13:38:32 <andythenorth> I usually play 256x512
13:38:41 <nielsm> larger town buildings and larger road distance in towns
13:38:50 <andythenorth> I would like slightly larger industries
13:38:50 <nielsm> and larger catchment areas
13:38:58 <andythenorth> and yes, slightly larger town spacing
13:39:05 <andythenorth> and slightly larger station catchments
13:39:33 <andythenorth> I would like to be able to build routes through and inside towns
13:40:07 <andythenorth> eddi's town spacing patch is pretty good
13:40:13 <nielsm> "Station catchment areas: Original, Improved, Improved 150%, Improved 200%, Improved 300%" like that?
13:41:25 <andythenorth> something like that
13:42:09 <nielsm> maybe "Varied" rather than "Improved"
13:42:31 <TrueBrain> does NSIS support https ... hmmm
13:42:33 <_dp_> I'd like catchment 5 for everything (like original but 5)
13:42:56 <nielsm> newgrf catchment areas? D:
13:43:00 <TrueBrain> "This built-in plugin allows you to download files via HTTP (but not HTTPS)."
13:43:55 <nielsm> ugh I really don't like aqueducts, their thinness irks me
13:44:32 <andythenorth> aqueducts are quite wrong visually yes :)
13:45:05 <_dp_> nielsm, sometimes I feel that "newgrf" in this community is a synonym of "/dev/null"
13:45:25 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with newgrf catchments :P
13:45:30 <andythenorth> let the station tile do it :P
13:45:34 <nielsm> _dp_ yes I don't think catchment area is suited for newgrf either, hence the D:
13:45:36 <andythenorth> oh, but nfo stations :(
13:46:06 <andythenorth> _dp_ I find that 'GS' is '/dev/null' here
13:46:33 <andythenorth> one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist
13:47:09 <nielsm> so, that macos 10.12 crash bug seems to relate to one of the two changes
13:47:19 <nielsm> either the build environment or the colourspace
13:47:28 <TrueBrain> see if there is a nightly with 1 of the 2?
13:47:37 <nielsm> was just about to suggest that
13:48:01 <TrueBrain> nightlies don't have a retention atm, so I think the archive is pretty huge atm :P
13:48:32 <TrueBrain> all these images ... I just see trains en stuff
13:48:38 <TrueBrain> no clue where to focus my attention to
13:49:03 <andythenorth> TrueBrain it's a mess eh :D
13:49:24 <TrueBrain> no, it is just a random screenshot without context to me :D
13:49:43 <andythenorth> I should do one upside down, see if you notice
13:50:25 <TrueBrain> owh, I forgot, AWS doesn't support IPv6 on its NLB .. euh .. how am I going to do this .... hmmmm
13:50:26 <nielsm> specifically the building conveyer belts to move cargo between industries and stations
13:51:01 <andythenorth> we do need a conveyor transport type
13:51:08 <andythenorth> then we can defeat F!
13:51:26 <andythenorth> how much spec docs there would have to be
13:51:32 <_dp_> andythenorth, my main issue with newgrfs is that they're too complicated for new players
13:51:49 <_dp_> so if I'm making a server for new players newgrfs are completely out of question
13:51:58 <andythenorth> I would tend to agree
13:52:07 <andythenorth> I didn't use newgrf for first couple of years playing
13:52:10 <_dp_> especially for stupid stuff like changing settings
13:52:13 <andythenorth> I thought they were corrupt hax
13:52:27 <glx> about #8066, could it be a missing respondsToSelector ?
13:52:29 <andythenorth> maybe those were different days
13:55:14 <michi_cc> glx: The colour space stuff at least is supported from 10.6 onwards, so not relevant for 10.12.
13:56:53 <michi_cc> Even if our video driver messages currently lie because they mention 10.4 compatibility, but #8078 updates that message as well.
14:02:48 <nielsm> so is water depth a good feature after all? :)
14:07:33 <nielsm> okay that confirms it is #8023 causing the bug
14:09:20 <glx> at least it's something we can change, #8028 would have been more problematic
14:09:49 <nielsm> ugh the music synth sounds terrible for me milek7, it isn't popping or such but it seems to be warbling
14:10:38 <TrueBrain> nielsm: well, that is the least worse outcome of the OSX issue tbh .. as that means it is our code, which we can fix :D
14:11:25 <TrueBrain> nielsm: btw, I contacted a company in the Netherlands to advise how an Open Source community should from a legal entity if it is international. I have a callback Tuesday about it. Will see what he has to say :)
14:12:33 <nielsm> milek7 tiny detail: maybe remove the "quit game" function from the in-game disk menu :)
14:12:37 <nielsm> since it doesn't work properly
14:13:57 <nielsm> and same for the Exit on the main menu
14:15:07 <milek7> well I'm no audiophile ;p
14:15:16 <milek7> maybe freepats soundfonts issue?
14:16:33 <nielsm> dunno, I should give it a listen on a linux build again some time
14:17:01 <nielsm> anyway bbl, going for a walk
14:17:10 <milek7> practically, it would be better to prerender songs with proper soundfont into .ogg and play that
14:33:08 *** blathijs has joined #openttd
14:55:36 * andythenorth has to draw loads of steel industry buildings
14:55:55 <andythenorth> picture has docks on canals :D
15:03:25 <glx> looking at #8023, I think this->color_space can be NULL if CGColorSpaceCreateWithName() fails, but the result is not checked, and I don't know if it can an issue to call CGBitmapContextCreate() with a NULL color_space
15:07:52 <michi_cc> NULL is definitely a problem, but the standard sRGB colour space should in theory be always available.
15:14:27 <TrueBrain> I wish IRC supported a webcam .. you would see me facepalm :)
15:18:35 <Samu> I think I finished my canal pathfinder!
15:18:57 <Samu> penalty costs seem to be working correctly
15:19:43 <Samu> 2 tile wide aqueducts are a possibility, though it required me careful handling
15:21:13 <Samu> ship depots were also difficult to handle, but it was made possible
15:22:16 <Samu> seems to only affect costs
15:22:46 <Samu> doesn't affect pathfinder checking connectivity by mere luck
15:24:05 <Samu> by the time it walks through an aqueduct it is already assumed the tiles are connected, so, it was just luck
15:45:08 <TrueBrain> LordAro: the repository is named content-api and content-server .. should that be bananas-api and bananas-server, in your opinion?
15:45:20 <TrueBrain> internally BaNaNaS was always called "content-service"; the BaNaNaS name came a bit later :P
15:47:33 <LordAro> doesn't really matter :p
15:47:49 <LordAro> i guess that i would probably name them bananas-foo
15:48:05 <TrueBrain> I was more thinking about when people never seen the code, what they would expect to find
15:48:21 <TrueBrain> meh; guess I rename the repositories while it isn't live yet :P
15:48:59 <andythenorth> oof I left OpenTTD on the title screen and now my battery is gone :(
15:51:09 <Samu> holy snap! the pathfinder is utterly slow
15:51:19 <Samu> testing with 10k ops and medium speed
15:55:22 <andythenorth> next April 1st someone code bots to impersonate me and samu
15:55:48 <TrueBrain> lol @ andythenorth :)
16:00:48 <nielsm> milek7: another random thought: offer an alternate webasm client that does not include the data files for music
16:01:08 <nielsm> (to lower the download size a bit)
16:05:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the content_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd
16:06:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the content_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd
16:08:02 <nielsm> oh right, while I was walking, I thought about making a milestone (or "project" board) for openttd 2.0 and use that for wild but not implausible features that would definitely mark a 2.0 release
16:09:13 <TrueBrain> hmm .. GitHub Actions don't want to start ... oh-oh :P
16:10:25 <TrueBrain> ah, just terribly slow
16:15:51 <TrueBrain> ah, it is even on their status page
16:15:58 <TrueBrain> so it is not the rename, pfew :)
16:17:04 <TrueBrain> okay, the AWS infrastructure for BaNaNaS has been setup (not yet deployed). I have to make a small Docker to redirect some old URLs, and after that I should be able to start this on staging
16:21:38 <andythenorth> think I'm going to run out of industry IDs
16:33:47 <nielsm> seems to load significantly faster for me
16:38:19 <nielsm> water industries just have one of their cargoes limited in natural production...
16:43:43 <Samu> I'm happy and sad at the same time, about it
16:46:28 <nielsm> that was _very_ fast :D
16:46:46 <milek7> no sounds and english only
16:47:14 <nielsm> I keep clicking the exit button by habit...
16:49:37 <nielsm> _dp_, regarding https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7896 - would you see a use for a button type that causes a text entry box so the player can submit a line of text? or how about one making a login box requesting both username and password?
16:49:43 <glx> probably like using right click on a screenshot to move the map :)
16:49:55 <Samu> now I see why detecting a river tile should be possible
16:50:31 <Samu> some competitor might demolish the river
16:51:01 <Samu> pathfinder goes through rivers
16:51:16 <Samu> but doesn't build canals on rivers
16:51:33 <Samu> and there's no easy way to detect whether the tile is river or not
16:52:02 <Samu> i don't want to build canal on sea, only on river
16:54:12 <Samu> must experiment fibonacci heap, see if it's faster than binary in this situation
16:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> I'd rather have larger town buildings first <-- we should probably resolve the "house walking" issue when replacing a large house with a smaller one. currently it replaces the north corner of the house, which may put the new house away from any roads
16:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, not sure if we really need that much bigger house, a newgrf with 2x2 houses for larger towns would probably go a long way
16:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> plus a few 2x1 and 1x2 "filler" houses
17:01:20 <nielsm> maybe some "commercial industries" that build in towns (replacing houses perhaps) which can be bigger
17:01:47 <nielsm> like a 3x4 luxury hotel
17:02:10 <nielsm> "headquarters" for various production industries
17:02:42 <nielsm> several competing banks :D
17:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> town industries may be annoying because people can't remove them
17:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i once considered a GS where it splits the map into regions, and you can only build in the region where you put your HQ
17:05:37 <nielsm> make them rare, have checks for never making multiple of the same in one town, special town requirements, maybe only building in towns with well-established transport infrastructure?
17:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> later you can expand by putting statues in other towns that act aas "branch office"
17:07:44 <nielsm> I'm imagining a statue with a secret door on the side, leading to an underground base
17:08:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z
17:08:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JvhMM
17:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i always misread that title as "disallow GS from making production changes"
17:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> wheras it's more like "allow GS to disallow production changes"
17:10:03 <nielsm> Feature: [GS] Disallow industry production changes
17:13:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8079: Add: [NewGRF] Industry behaviour flag to override second cargo produc… https://git.io/JvhMQ
17:13:58 <nielsm> more random ideas: let GS buy land as a town, effectively reserving tiles for town expansion
17:15:22 <nielsm> oh nice, just discovered github now allows you to convert an open PR back to draft status
17:15:48 <nielsm> michi_cc: the commit title for that PR is rather long :P
17:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i just read that as: "more features that annoy players because they can't build where they like" :p
17:16:38 <michi_cc> Has the complete commit message more characters than the actual change? I didn't count, so I might have missed my goal :p
17:18:44 <Samu> once again fibonacci heap beats binary heap in speed
17:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "smooth economy" is probably one of those features that maybe should be ripped out and rewritten from scratch
17:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> this time with proper newgrf interaction
17:19:47 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.963297407515
17:21:33 <_dp_> nielsm, I almost found a use for #7896 as it is, though I'd prefer inline buttons
17:22:00 <_dp_> to select quests to do among 100 available
17:22:01 <nielsm> _dp_ you mean as part of the text flow?
17:22:24 <nielsm> because that would probably be very annoying
17:23:17 <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, so it's more clear what line it refers to
17:24:14 <FLHerne> nielsm: Feature: GameScript can block industry production changes <- ?
17:25:00 <_dp_> nielsm, text input dialog as a separate feature also sounds awesome
17:25:12 <_dp_> ideally even some way to construct dialog boxes
17:25:42 <nielsm> _dp_ I can maybe do something so the button floats to the left of the previous or following paragraph
17:26:10 <nielsm> and maybe then has an icon instead of text?
17:26:38 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd
17:27:06 <_dp_> float to the right is better imo
17:27:46 <_dp_> icons are nice but together with text imo
17:28:05 <_dp_> icon rarely makes sense on its own
17:28:25 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:29:42 <supermop_Home_> maybe i should play openttd
17:33:21 <supermop_Home_> anyone have a nice game going?
17:34:05 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
17:34:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
17:34:48 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
17:59:55 <supermop_Home_> ugh breakdowns and inflation on
18:00:21 <supermop_Home_> i wish you could see this before joining a game
18:14:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DonaldDuck313 opened issue #8080: Wrong station is added to the train's orders when clicking on a station. https://git.io/JvhyM
18:15:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8080: Wrong station is added to the train's orders when clicking on a station. https://git.io/JvhyM
18:15:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8080: Wrong station is added to the train's orders when clicking on a station. https://git.io/JvhyM
18:15:54 <LordAro> can't even get away from it even after a new release :p
18:15:58 <nielsm> closed without 30 seconds, you'd almost think I was a bot
18:18:38 <andythenorth> death to smooth economy?
18:18:53 <andythenorth> we haven't done many big rewrites for a long time?
18:19:01 <andythenorth> what was the last one? PBS? YAPF?
18:34:40 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... bananaaanananananaaaa
18:38:23 <Samu> strange, graph aystar version 4 is faster than graph aystar version 6, for no apparent reason
18:49:15 <nielsm> okay yeah making floating buttons will be quite a task
18:49:30 <nielsm> I'll need to change the entire storybook drawing/layout code
18:54:31 <DorpsGek> Samu: zuu was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Zuu> Yes some of the devzone projects have been moved there but not all yet.
18:56:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-redirect] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of binaries-redirect https://git.io/JvhSj
19:18:02 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
19:22:01 *** Progman has joined #openttd
19:26:09 <TrueBrain> right, did all the administrative tasks for BaNaNaS ... creating keys, creating sentry projects, assigning permissions
19:26:11 <TrueBrain> damn, that is boring work
19:35:13 <TrueBrain> okay ... think I am ready to deploy this ... oef, always this painful moment :P
19:38:29 <andythenorth> we are with you TB
19:38:49 <TrueBrain> lets start off with creating a bunch of new certificates
19:39:32 <TrueBrain> one annoying thing, the certificate overview sorts domain names by alfabet .. instead of by TLD, etc
19:42:43 <TrueBrain> I wonder what it will do with the cost-per-month .. the current information suggests BaNaNaS uses 4 TB per month .. which would cost 400 euro a month .. I just hope my measurements are somewhat wrong :P
19:51:52 <TrueBrain> otherwise we can always deploy CloudFlare in front of it, to reduce the bill :)
19:53:18 <TrueBrain> or fix why-ever people are downloading so much content :P
19:53:22 <TrueBrain> I still don't believe it can be true
19:54:13 <TrueBrain> holy crap, we are now up to 8TB a month .. lol
19:54:18 <TrueBrain> it is a bit busy :)
19:55:22 <TrueBrain> seems that on average a download is 4 MiB, which sounds about right
19:55:45 <supermop_Home_> charge a subscription fee to bananas?
19:56:22 <TrueBrain> the authors or the users? :D
19:56:26 <supermop_Home_> random passers-by
19:57:16 <TrueBrain> 60,000 downloads in the last 24 hour via BaNaNaS
19:57:27 <TrueBrain> (via ingame client, even)
19:58:02 <michi_cc> Are there search engine bots that use the ingame API? :p
19:58:15 <TrueBrain> no, that is nearly impossible :)
19:58:28 <TrueBrain> well, those are two statements. No. And that is nearly impossible :)
19:59:27 <TrueBrain> 40 downloads every minute .. that is a lot ..
19:59:36 <TrueBrain> so I guess the bill will be ~400 euro a month :P
20:03:42 <michi_cc> Okay, I guess that is where they make their profit. Strato will sell you a basic managed server with 10TB/month for 29 €.
20:04:32 <TrueBrain> main difference between Strato (and any other VPS or what-ever), that this is a true CDN :)
20:04:42 <TrueBrain> so latency for clients is really low
20:05:05 <TrueBrain> and for that, you pay :)
20:05:41 <TrueBrain> for now btw, it is free, as AWS gave us some lovely credits; but that is not really the point of course :)
20:07:05 <TrueBrain> I just really wish I could better see why so many people are downloading so much content. And if there is anything to gain there :)
20:07:36 <TrueBrain> I just have a really hard time believing so many people use the content-service
20:09:09 <TrueBrain> if I do the math some more, it means that on average a single person downloads 100 content entries .. which seems like .. A LOT
20:10:18 <_dp_> there are servers with zillion newgrfs
20:10:30 <TrueBrain> but ... how many people play multiplayer?
20:10:32 <_dp_> and with this corona thing there are lot more ppl playing
20:10:35 <nielsm> especially patchpack servers
20:10:52 <TrueBrain> we have 300 people playing in public servers atm
20:11:08 <TrueBrain> we have 6000 people a day downloading 60,000 entries via the content-service
20:11:09 <_dp_> TrueBrain, about 150 people at any given time on avg
20:11:36 <andythenorth> how much of it is zbase?
20:11:54 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is something I do not know
20:12:17 <TrueBrain> _dp_: nice stats :)
20:13:33 <andythenorth> I was low on hard drive space once, and found about 1GB of different 32BPP grfs
20:14:06 <TrueBrain> I am still .. this is like a lot :P
20:17:47 <TrueBrain> but okay, we will first see how much AWS says we consume .. as I trust those numbers more than my own :)
20:22:29 <TrueBrain> and now finally, lets deploy the new BaNaNaS ...
20:45:16 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
20:50:27 <milek7> vector fonts without antialiasing look really bad
20:51:03 <nielsm> it's okay on a 200 dpi (I think?) display :P
20:51:58 <nielsm> (definitely looks better than doubled pixelfont)
20:56:05 <nielsm> (there's some clipping issues on the right edge)
20:56:11 <_dp_> 200 dpi? what kind of display monstrosity is that?
20:56:22 <_dp_> I'm already having troubles with mine 160
20:56:56 <nielsm> maybe it's not that high, I don't remember
20:57:18 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
20:57:55 <_dp_> yeah, that's sligthly less, 200 is 22 iirc
20:59:50 <nielsm> measured display area to 297 mm tall
21:01:36 <_dp_> though I was talking of something like inline-block but float is not bad either
21:02:20 <nielsm> making buttons part of text layout would be hellish, making them part of block layout is doable :P
21:02:24 <supermop_Home_> ukrs 3 in 1930 + firs steeltown = spamming coal trains
21:04:24 <_dp_> nielsm, I know, it's just my OCD missing baseline alignment xD
21:05:05 <nielsm> ah yeah... I was thinking floating buttons should maybe just be moved up by the top border+padding
21:08:38 <frosch123> haha, you cannot define branch restrictions on empty repositories
21:11:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: always push an empty commit to master, yes :)
21:11:32 <TrueBrain> the reason the first commit in all OpenTTD repos I made are: "Add: initial empty commit" :)
21:16:46 <frosch123> how do i even make an empty commit...
21:17:29 <nielsm> git commit --allow-empty
21:21:42 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ you need a better steeltown :P
21:24:55 <TrueBrain> just please name it "bananas-web" :) Or "bananas-frontend-web"
21:25:25 <frosch123> aw, who is going to write the js frontend then?
21:25:47 <TrueBrain> if we write it, it would replace your version, not? :D
21:25:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-oldskool-frontend] frosch123 merged pull request #1: Add: [DorpsGek] announce issues, pull-requests, and tags to IRC https://git.io/Jvh5C
21:25:52 <TrueBrain> or you wanted to have two? :P
21:26:15 <TrueBrain> I am also fine with bananas-frontend-oldskool, but this ordering is just ticking off my OCD :)
21:31:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 opened pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jvh5V
21:31:13 <frosch123> andythenorth: if you want to do css, feel free
21:31:45 <frosch123> let's see whether i can run the server locally
21:33:10 <TrueBrain> well, you want to run the api locally ;)
21:33:33 * andythenorth thinks black serif font is nice
21:34:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: be careful, i added an easteregg last weekend. it scared me today, when i tripped into it
21:35:11 <frosch123> also don't tell tb, he might kick me
21:35:16 <andythenorth> I honestly think we should use the current website skin
21:45:00 <frosch123> what is the correct way to import "unused" modules, when the imports are done for their side-effects?
21:47:08 <frosch123> but when "noqa" is fine, why did you complain about oldskool?
21:47:14 <TrueBrain> there are cleaner ways to do it, but this is pretty normal too :)
21:47:26 <TrueBrain> because one is in my reach, the other is not :P
21:48:52 <TrueBrain> cool, did not know "secrets" module existed
21:49:01 <TrueBrain> I have been using "uuid"
21:49:26 <frosch123> you know too much python, i always google for modules
21:49:59 <TrueBrain> you have many imports in init; this is a bit of an anti-pattern. Are they needed?
21:50:09 <TrueBrain> (honest question, to be clear :D)
21:50:17 <frosch123> they register the pages to flask via the decorator
21:50:22 <frosch123> they are not referenced otherwise
21:50:33 <frosch123> but the load order somewhat matters
21:50:43 <frosch123> i.e. first initialize flask, then load pages
21:50:57 <TrueBrain> feels like flask has been using too much black magic
21:51:51 <frosch123> anyway, i added #noqa there :)
21:54:38 <TrueBrain> manager_new_package ... manager_package_edit .. why do you hate me :P
21:55:19 <frosch123> says the person who added 13 decorators to main()
21:55:25 <TrueBrain> really a long time ago I saw this kind of website .. but I wouldn't have done it any better .. well .. pretty much I would have done it worse :P
21:55:31 <TrueBrain> @click is awesome :D
21:56:01 <TrueBrain> and now I have to figure out how to give an ECS pod access to S3 ..
22:07:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what part of bananas-api is auto-generated?
22:11:18 <frosch123> oh, i assumed helpers/api_schema was from swagger
22:11:35 <TrueBrain> no; I couldn't find an exported that worked for Python
22:11:40 <TrueBrain> (well, for Python3.8)
22:12:20 <TrueBrain> I wrote api_schema, it basically is an export of swagger to marshmallow, but manually :P
22:12:40 <TrueBrain> 1 of the annoying things for example, was that the schema was not ordered .. which made responses from the API in random order .. which is just annoying
22:32:27 <TrueBrain> right, found the first real bug while deploying .. :D
22:33:42 <TrueBrain> sentry at least is kicking in nicely
22:33:46 <TrueBrain> which is a good thing
22:35:23 <TrueBrain> and bananas-server booted :D
22:35:29 <TrueBrain> now lets see if bananas-api can boot too
22:37:09 <Samu> got a really weird crash
22:37:10 <TrueBrain> ha, the ALB of AWS is doing what it should :D (shocker, right?)
22:37:22 <TrueBrain> on the same domain, it is now serving 2 different pods, depending on the path
22:37:28 <TrueBrain> that makes so many things so much easier :D
22:40:14 <Samu> just crashed for no reason
22:41:15 <frosch123> haha, so you implemented the oauth2 client yourself :)
22:42:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no? Well, as much as you did for eints?
22:43:32 <TrueBrain> only instead of requests-oauth library, it is an asyncio-oauth library, but that is just tomato tomato :D
22:43:55 <frosch123> "healthz" is some external tool?
22:44:54 <TrueBrain> healthz is a k8s thingy, which should return 200
22:44:58 <TrueBrain> it is used to know when the pod is healthy
22:45:14 <TrueBrain> the loadbalancer only starts to use pods when they returned that URL as 200
22:45:20 <TrueBrain> (and stop using it if it fails to give 200 for N times)
22:45:31 <frosch123> ok, it looked so oldskooly
22:46:20 <TrueBrain> the "humor" of k8s, so Google, I guess :)
22:49:07 <TrueBrain> Docker Hub is not the most stable SaaS out there ...
22:49:16 <TrueBrain> it has been like this for months .. I worry about them
22:53:31 <TrueBrain> okay, fixed a bunch of crashes .. I love getting my own software to crash :D
22:56:19 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
22:57:57 <TrueBrain> okay, GitHub authentication works
22:58:08 <TrueBrain> S3 bucket seems to work
22:58:14 <TrueBrain> so now I need to upload something .. euh ..
22:58:25 <TrueBrain> I am going to write a simple CLI tool tomorrow :P
23:03:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhFl
23:03:31 <frosch123> commented what i understood
23:03:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhF4
23:05:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhFE
23:05:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhFu
23:06:07 <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 ; I will extend the wishlist :D
23:06:25 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i did not find, where authors are set on upload
23:06:29 <frosch123> are they editable later?
23:06:53 <TrueBrain> ah, that is not on the wishlist yet
23:06:59 <TrueBrain> no, currently you cannot set the authors via the API
23:07:14 <TrueBrain> the functionality simply doesn't exist yet :)
23:07:19 <frosch123> well, the api should set at least one author for new packages
23:07:38 <TrueBrain> the current user is set
23:08:04 <TrueBrain> that is part of the Package struct
23:08:19 <TrueBrain> (authors are per package, not per version, as a reminder :D)
23:08:38 <TrueBrain> so currently if you upload a new version of an existing package, and you are an author, nothing changes (in regards to authors)
23:08:49 <TrueBrain> and if you upload a new version of a non-existing package, a new package is created with you as only author
23:09:29 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am tempted to put the stricter validation of dependencies on the wishlist too
23:09:47 <TrueBrain> on the other hand, it is a small change .. I have issues drawing any line :D
23:10:01 <andythenorth> pharmaceuticals cargo
23:10:23 <frosch123> my main concern is, that the dependencies disable the "savegame-only" restriction
23:10:57 <frosch123> so, i added the stronger dependency validation to the wishlist, and a simpler in the code
23:10:59 <NGC3982> i just noticed that ctrl+clicking options in the transparency menu locks them individually
23:11:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is fair :)
23:11:10 <NGC3982> that is a very, very nifty feature
23:12:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhF9
23:14:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the bananas_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd
23:14:42 <TrueBrain> will fix the rest tomorrow frosch123 ; good comments, tnx :)
23:16:29 *** snail_UES_ is now known as Guest21982
23:16:30 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
23:16:41 <TrueBrain> this so we can constantly test stuff on staging
23:16:47 <TrueBrain> without having to worry to break production :D
23:17:54 <milek7> everything on github? isn't it bit too much vendor lock-in?
23:18:56 <frosch123> no, we only rely on git and oauth2
23:19:33 <frosch123> the stuff can be ported to the next githype platform pretty easy
23:19:53 <frosch123> eints already survived hg and svn
23:19:56 <TrueBrain> as long as I don't have to port the GitHub Actions :P
23:20:28 <TrueBrain> rewrote CF code ... 7 times now?
23:20:45 <TrueBrain> Custom, buildbot, Jenkins, Custom, Docker, Azure Pipelines, GitHub Actions
23:20:58 <TrueBrain> well, in 16 years, so I guess that is fine
23:21:22 <frosch123> when did we have jenkins? do you mean bamboo?
23:21:31 <TrueBrain> owh, we also did bamboo, dammit .. 8
23:21:49 <glx> hmm CF is not fully GitHub Actions
23:21:57 <TrueBrain> not sure when we did Jenkins .. just know it was when I learned it sucks balls :P
23:22:05 <TrueBrain> glx: it never was fully one or the other :P
23:22:12 <TrueBrain> it was always "pending migration to N"
23:22:16 <TrueBrain> some things never change :P
23:22:35 <TrueBrain> well, the old stuff can all be set offline now, I guess
23:22:41 <TrueBrain> that is a first .. so we only have 2 active atm :D
23:22:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: pretty sure "bamboo" was online the longest
23:23:14 <TrueBrain> it was also the easiest one to use, for me
23:23:22 <TrueBrain> as it "just worked"
23:23:28 <TrueBrain> the first one we had, used jails
23:23:30 <TrueBrain> that was also very stable
23:23:37 <TrueBrain> but run on an university server somewhere :P
23:24:07 <TrueBrain> after that for a few years it was just messy ... Rb also really helped out, but it was difficult
23:24:14 <TrueBrain> bamboo stabilized the shit out of the CF
23:24:21 <TrueBrain> Azure Pipelines also hasn't disapoint, tbh
23:24:30 <TrueBrain> now also running for, what, over a year?
23:24:37 <TrueBrain> with minimal amount of issues
23:25:11 <glx> Samu: the save is so slow :)
23:26:36 <Samu> im checking it, the problem is that it's trying to update docking tiles of buoys
23:26:48 <Samu> they're not even stations
23:27:03 <Samu> Station::GetByTile(tile) returns nullptr
23:27:42 <glx> yes that's what I guessed when reading the call stack
23:28:03 <TrueBrain> right, enough for one day. Tomorrow we make a nice CLI to test out the API. And I will check out your work too frosch123 :) LETS DO THIISSSSSS :D
23:29:11 <frosch123> i thought you already had a cli in the regression
23:29:22 <Samu> just filter out buoys, i dunno which function does that
23:29:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I do. But I need to move it to a new repo and make it nice and everything
23:29:49 <TrueBrain> guess I will support the musa ini or something
23:29:57 <TrueBrain> so we can ask silly people like andythenorth to test stuff :P
23:30:11 <TrueBrain> all the code is there, just a matter of moving :)
23:30:12 <frosch123> don't distract him from writing css
23:30:17 <frosch123> we have noone else who does that
23:30:19 <andythenorth> I'm writing css? :(
23:30:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair point :D
23:30:23 <andythenorth> we have loads of people
23:30:24 <Samu> !IsBuoyTile(tile) should suffice
23:30:36 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: aren't you? Owh boy ....
23:30:57 <TrueBrain> well, I am off getting some nightrest
23:31:56 <andythenorth> frosch123 I am not trolling about keeping existing bananas skin btw
23:32:31 <andythenorth> all I see from changing is weeks or months of debate
23:32:35 <frosch123> but i am not sure whether it makes stuff easier
23:32:56 <andythenorth> and lots of 'review' from people who otherwise do not show up and help
23:33:11 <frosch123> the navigation bar is pretty massive in the new frontend, that already fails with the existing layout
23:33:20 <andythenorth> maybe we can fix it
23:33:52 <andythenorth> I'm not really productive with our public process where it seems anyone can nitpick and prevent a feature shipping, but few will actually do it :P
23:33:58 <frosch123> i used 3 rows, to reduce the width
23:34:03 <andythenorth> when I did eints it was me and alberth and nobody could stop us doing it
23:34:13 <andythenorth> same reason I won't write any more blog posts
23:34:27 <andythenorth> it's more important to people to pick at commas than actually ship anything, or write anything
23:34:46 <frosch123> he, i was surprised that even two blog posts were written :p
23:35:14 <frosch123> when i read in irc log about regular blogs and a faster release cycle, i felt pretty lol :p
23:35:51 <frosch123> noone wanted to write release announcements in 10 years, why would people suddenly want to write blogs?
23:36:13 <andythenorth> well I would, but 100% zero motivation after the last one
23:36:20 <frosch123> but i like referencing the january dev post. i think i will continue that meme for a while
23:36:43 <andythenorth> I think it annoys TB :)
23:39:15 <andythenorth> 'ETHY' or 'C2H4'?
23:40:32 <andythenorth> also, is the industry limit increasable beyond 128? :)
23:40:41 <andythenorth> I have a solution if it's not
23:40:43 <frosch123> there are a lot of elements with ethsomething
23:41:39 <frosch123> the limit of industries is arbitrary
23:41:43 <frosch123> the limit of industry tiles is harder
23:42:17 <andythenorth> I am running out of industries faster than tiles for some reason
23:43:01 <andythenorth> oh there are 255 tiles, that's why
23:43:06 <andythenorth> and most industries use 1 or 2
23:43:58 <frosch123> hmm, i thought we hosted landscape_grid somewhere
23:44:06 <frosch123> but i guess that's still on some todo list somewhere :)
23:44:24 <andythenorth> there was a hokey solution for it
23:45:07 <frosch123> oh, looks like the industry tile limit is already 512 total, 255 per grf
23:45:28 <andythenorth> ha ha I forgot that I organised all the wiki dev docs
23:45:34 <andythenorth> what else did I do and forget?
23:46:02 <andythenorth> nobody got to review my wiki changes :P
23:47:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, both industry and tile limit are already higher in ottd internals, and limited to lower numbers per grf
23:47:35 <glx> oh I can reproduce #8081 with rail waypoint too
23:47:42 <andythenorth> I doubt I'd need more than 64 active at once
23:47:48 <andythenorth> even if I did weird town buildings
23:48:01 <andythenorth> but I have hit 99 in current FIRS codebase
23:48:20 <andythenorth> I can assign IDs per economy, I do that for cargos, it's not onerous
23:48:20 <frosch123> ah, there is a comment about the limit to 128
23:48:36 <frosch123> some 60+x variables take an industry id as parameter
23:48:48 <frosch123> and they can only handle 7 bit ids, since bit 8 is used for original/newgrf
23:49:41 <frosch123> pretty sure you use those variables for your placement checks
23:50:10 <frosch123> so, that part is not easy :)
23:50:12 <andythenorth> well assigning IDs per economy is not awful
23:50:19 <andythenorth> it just breaks savegames more often
23:53:56 <andythenorth> I am doing a chemical economy
23:54:10 <andythenorth> rejected names include 'All Your Base Belong to Us'
23:54:39 <frosch123> isn't it "all your base are belong to us"?
23:55:11 <andythenorth> yes you're correct
23:55:49 <frosch123> what about "super model"?
23:56:23 <frosch123> with botox and other makeup stuff
23:56:49 <supermop_Home_> i think the botox is not for the super models
23:57:25 <frosch123> the recycling yard needs botox to produce super models?
23:57:55 <frosch123> anyway, pretty sure i heard about teenagers using botox
continue to next day ⏵
