IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-01-19
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00:00:04 <TrueBrain> so I am guessing the "deepen" is deepening both branches of the tree .. not sure :)
00:00:23 <glx> yes deepen works on both branches
00:00:51 <TrueBrain> anyway, my main worry with your solution is, that we could be hammering the server for a while
00:01:00 <TrueBrain> not sure if that is a good or bad thing
00:01:27 <TrueBrain> my solution only does 3 calls in total, no matter what. But uses a non-git source to get the data (which has its own risks)
00:01:45 <glx> can be mitigated by increasing initial depth and deepen
00:01:45 <TrueBrain> say someone makes a PR that does merge but has no common parent, it will be fetching all commits
00:01:55 <TrueBrain> no, only increasing won't help
00:02:00 <TrueBrain> but doing a *= 2 every time does
00:02:36 <TrueBrain> a 'git merge' is a strange thing
00:02:40 <TrueBrain> it is nothing what I thought it was
00:02:48 <TrueBrain> (I learnt way too many details about git today :P)
00:06:26 <crazystacy2> arrays: "index 'find' does not exist"
00:06:32 <crazystacy2> i used the find function before O_o
00:07:34 <peter1138> Hmm, well, that's the second episode of Heretic completed. 3 more to go.
00:07:49 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0
00:12:54 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/Jvkg3
00:13:08 <TrueBrain> glx: okay, I think yours is easier to maintain .. just getting the numbers right will be interesting :D
00:14:59 <TrueBrain> doing at most 7 calls is fine I guess .. not much anyone can complain about that tbh
00:15:11 <TrueBrain> the server clearly caches the merge result, so meh
00:16:17 <glx> and it's still better than using fetch-depth:0
00:17:06 <TrueBrain> especially in the most common case :) From 1+ minute to 10 seconds
00:17:27 <TrueBrain> my GitHub API solution is even faster, but .... it could potentially be wrong
00:17:50 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7948: Alternative: move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvkgW
00:17:50 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7948: Alternative: move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvkBQ
00:18:44 <glx> and it's probably very rare to update a very old PR without rebasing first, same for opening I guess
00:19:19 <TrueBrain> I do see happening that people create PRs against the wrong base, but .. if it takes a bit longer in those cases, I am fine with that
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00:44:06 <crazystacy2> hm, removebottom doesn't work as expected
00:53:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/Jvkgy
00:55:10 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7
00:59:45 <TrueBrain> glx: your comment block is formatted weird :P It is not a sentence per line, and it is also not a prefixed width
00:59:49 <TrueBrain> MY OCD IS HITTING HERE :P
01:01:37 <TrueBrain> glx: why is the final 'git log' not returning anything? Any idea?
01:02:16 <glx> + git log --oneline 'HEAD^..HEAD^2'
01:02:17 <glx> 9d6cb30 Codechange: [AzurePipelines] remove commit-checker
01:02:17 <glx> 3625ed7 Add: [Actions] commit-checker workflow
01:02:17 <glx> 6dfe5c8 Fix #7927: Incorrect resolution shown in "Huge screenshot" query window. (#7949)
01:02:34 <TrueBrain> commit-checker is not telling what it is checking, so I am curious if this is working now
01:02:35 <glx> yeah my master is not up to date while the PR is
01:03:20 <glx> but it's weird I get the log when testing locally but not on github
01:03:46 <TrueBrain> especially because it does find a common parent
01:05:28 <TrueBrain> allows us to check if it works, but also if the non-zero exit code is processed correctly :D
01:07:17 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7
01:07:51 <glx> invalid message and trailing space :)
01:08:50 <glx> ah this time log is correct
01:08:59 <glx> and check fails as expected
01:09:45 <TrueBrain> so remove the commit, and fix my OCD, and off we go :P
01:12:42 <TrueBrain> add a dot at the end to make it perfect :)
01:14:50 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7
01:16:29 <TrueBrain> lets find out how many things this breaks :D
01:16:58 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/Jvkgh
01:17:37 <glx> hmm maybe all opened PRs, like when I added a regression workflow for nml
01:21:59 <TrueBrain> well, I will see tomorrow the disaster this created :D But nice work glx, this will improve PRs by a lot :D Now some slick annotation, and maybe people will know how to fix it when it breaks :)
01:22:17 <TrueBrain> cool things you can do now, is for example comment in the pull-request (just once for example) if the commit message is wrong
01:22:23 <TrueBrain> I see that now with some repositories
01:22:43 <TrueBrain> something like: "We noticed the commit checker failed; this is because we follow a strict commit message policy. Read more about this on ...."
01:23:05 <TrueBrain> that really helps new people to understand what happened, but also allows us to tell how to fix it :)
01:23:12 <glx> at least no the error will be easier to read too
01:23:24 <TrueBrain> anyway, something to think about to improve on this :)
01:23:38 <TrueBrain> (not something I will be building anytime soon myself, to be clear :P)
01:23:43 <TrueBrain> for now: good night :)
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09:22:10 <peter1138> Oh. I was going to have a Lemsip. So I made a coffee by mistake. Oops.
09:22:21 <peter1138> More merge conflicts.
09:22:41 <andythenorth> Pikka moar covered hoppers of course
09:22:56 <andythenorth> what else could I be talking about? o_O
09:23:10 <andythenorth> so are you doing 4x NARS?
09:23:14 <peter1138> Ok, I finally got my road bike back and... I'm not riding this morning. It's -2 and I slipped and landed on my hip yesterday anyway.
09:24:46 <Pikka> I'm doing a bridge, and then maybe a tree
09:25:14 <andythenorth> procedural tree generator? o_o
09:26:56 <Pikka> just going to draw them I think :P
09:43:00 <peter1138> Hmm, booted my old server up to redo my backup, but... can't find it on the network :/
09:43:52 <peter1138> Also my OpenTTD server seems quite popular, possibly because it auto-restarts at ... 2050 I think.
09:45:42 <peter1138> Wow, the auto-restart is abrupt, isn't it?
09:50:41 * LordAro also not riding this morning, also because negative temperature
09:51:26 <LordAro> andythenorth: needs procedural tree placement generator :)
09:52:39 <peter1138> LordAro, I'm just lamenting... I used to be an all-weather rider...
09:53:01 <peter1138> 66% water on my server. Yay for ships!
09:53:08 <LordAro> i think there are reasonable limits to this
09:53:17 <LordAro> i did pouring rain last week
09:53:22 <peter1138> I'd go out even if it was pissing down, yes.
09:54:56 <peter1138> Hmm, at least starting in 1980 you get hovercraft :D
09:56:20 <peter1138> "ERROR: The server is restarting...?Please wait..."
09:56:24 <peter1138> That doesn't seem quite right.
09:56:34 <peter1138> It's... not an error, and that question mark...
09:57:01 <Wolf01> "The task failed succesfully"
09:57:29 <LordAro> failing to render a newline, i think
09:57:48 <LordAro> src/lang/english.txt:STR_NETWORK_MESSAGE_SERVER_REBOOT :{WHITE}The server is restarting...{}Please wait...
10:01:01 <andythenorth> so daylength then?
10:02:59 <LordAro> peter1138: is your server public?
10:03:53 <peter1138> Yes, it's called "[CLC] OpenTTD" for various reasons.
10:05:04 <andythenorth> coal mail trains
10:05:11 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvkS2
10:05:24 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7943: Move commit checker from Azure Pipelines to Github Actions https://git.io/JvTY7
10:06:39 <peter1138> Heh, I forgot we have existing station coverage highlight now.
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10:16:06 <andythenorth> I forgot how low primary output is in vanilla :P
10:16:10 <peter1138> Yes, rivers, Pikka. You could just bulldoze it like most people :D
10:16:22 <peter1138> andythenorth, well it might pick up :p
10:17:11 <Pikka> I'll draw riverbanks and canals, I guess they're not going anywhere :P
10:17:38 <andythenorth> all my money gone on ships :)
10:17:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: draw half-tile diagonals :P
10:18:02 <peter1138> Bigger loan, andythenorth?
10:18:05 <andythenorth> ugly rivers are ugly, someone will fix
10:18:37 <andythenorth> see if it makes any money while I go to Tesco
10:19:31 <peter1138> Will Tesco be open yet?
10:19:47 <peter1138> Should I go myself just to get out of the house?
10:19:57 <andythenorth> I have to take kids to football etc :P
10:20:32 <peter1138> It's a bit silly that these passenger ships don't at least take mail.
10:21:06 <peter1138> Mind you, that's also silly of me, that probably doesn't happen anyway.
10:21:24 <peter1138> Easier to load a lorry onto a ferry, heh.
10:22:18 <andythenorth> multi-cargo ships :P
10:22:35 <peter1138> Hmm, industry density is a bit high, perhaps due to the low amount of land-mass.
10:24:15 <andythenorth> is it original train physics? o_O
10:24:25 * andythenorth will adjust play style accordingly :P
10:24:45 <andythenorth> hills are very very bad eh
10:25:08 <peter1138> Oh, it is. How odd!
10:25:24 <LordAro> i've been noticing a few default settings that could probably be changed...
10:25:57 <peter1138> If only the settings could be changed, via gui, from a client with the rcon password.
10:26:18 <andythenorth> TTD mode, sandbox mode, scenario mode (realism)
10:26:23 <andythenorth> model train mode :P
10:27:40 <peter1138> Settings presets, eh?
10:28:06 <andythenorth> sandbox mode just turns magic bulldozer on :P
10:31:21 <LordAro> my ships are complaining that they are lost, despite happily heading towards the next destination
10:31:27 <peter1138> Oh god changing settings on a server that's running is... not fun.
10:31:32 <peter1138> LordAro, I noticed that.
10:31:37 <LordAro> could be something to do with the double lock?
10:32:38 <peter1138> I wonder, did we undo the path length limit after the caching was implemented...
10:34:08 <andythenorth> original gameplay so different to Horse / FIRS madness :P
10:34:13 <andythenorth> not worse, kind of charming
10:34:29 <peter1138> I've never played Horse / FIRS properly, so I don't know.
10:34:43 <peter1138> I did play with Pikka's industries a lot though.
10:34:52 <peter1138> I have to admit, I never really found FIRS actually fun.
10:34:57 <andythenorth> it's not for everyone
10:35:37 <andythenorth> and I don't like the Extreme thing
10:36:48 <LordAro> is the new vehicle window supposed to not appear when you clone a vehicle?
10:37:09 <andythenorth> if it has shared orders, shouldn't appear iirc
10:37:49 <peter1138> Okay, "realistic" on.
10:38:08 <LordAro> andythenorth: that's what i'm doing, but why?
10:38:29 <andythenorth> spams loads of windows?
10:38:33 <andythenorth> that have no purpose?
10:39:04 * andythenorth downgrading trains :D
10:39:16 <LordAro> only if you start them all at once, which i'm not doing
10:41:08 <andythenorth> I might be talking at cross purposes
10:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: someone thought you don't need the new train window for anything, since all you would ever do was start/stop and you could do that in the depot
10:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, spamming the clone button tended to fill your screen, and then close the oldest window first, which is the one you're cloning from
10:42:17 <andythenorth> it only applies if ctrl-cloning
10:42:27 <andythenorth> otherwise the vehicle window is created
10:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a setting to turn it back on
10:42:50 <andythenorth> all it does is fill your screen so you can't see anything? o_O
10:42:54 <andythenorth> seems user hostile to me
10:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> some people are masochists
10:43:21 <andythenorth> some people have 2x 30" screens
10:43:50 <andythenorth> goods grows towns, right? o_O
10:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, and lightning hits oak trees more often...?!?
10:45:51 <LordAro> andythenorth: is that you in red?
10:45:58 <LordAro> get out of my area :p
10:46:15 <andythenorth> there I did a bridge
10:46:35 <andythenorth> I am doing all forests
10:47:24 <peter1138> never_expire_vehicles = true
10:47:50 <peter1138> Although it says "off" in the gui.
10:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a saying in german that in case of a thunderstorm, you should avoid oaks and look for beeches.
10:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> someone studied that once, and found that the bark of oak trees is more likely to splinter if it gets hit by a lightning
10:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a perception bias
10:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the only winning move is not to play.
10:49:17 <andythenorth> you win then Eddi|zuHause
10:50:02 <peter1138> 1 out of 6 connections are... IPv6.
10:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> ipv6 is only like 20 years old by now, why would you assume it had caught on yet?
11:02:50 <LordAro> hmm, can't build a bridge over a lock?
11:04:07 <andythenorth> Pikka: you using railway/foamer names like 'polybulk'?
11:04:14 <andythenorth> or more generic?
11:05:14 <Pikka> although I've got a speedlink van
11:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i think i've seen a patch for that
11:05:54 * andythenorth running out of variations of 'covered hopper' ;P
11:06:05 <andythenorth> that also don't overlap with 'hopper' :P
11:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but it might have been a samu patch, so who knows...
11:07:24 <Pikka> guess you need to go foamy if you've got MOAR
11:08:07 <andythenorth> I already used up 'mineral', 'rock', 'ore' for mining cargo wagons
11:08:17 <andythenorth> and I have silo / pressure / powder wagons
11:08:21 <andythenorth> the problems of MOAR
11:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what the problem is
11:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone go shopping on a sunday?
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11:29:08 <Pikka> you say "peter1138, please turn cargodist off" :P
11:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in my experience, once a link is overloaded, there are knockon effects that make it worse
11:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, increasing the distance effect on demand tends to help with overcrowded passenger networks
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11:52:06 <TrueBrain> time to deploy something in production which I haven't tried in development yet .. as .. YOLO! :P
11:52:37 <nielsm> as long as it can be rolled back
11:52:50 <TrueBrain> mmmaaayyyybbbeeeee :P
11:57:29 <peter1138> LordAro, wasn't there some discussion somewhere about reducing the amount of passengers that towns produce. Something about quadratics and double double double or something.
11:57:56 <FLHerne> LordAro: Sort by Via->Destination->Source, it's much easier to see the problems then
11:59:16 <peter1138> Probably could do with some kind of destination rating, so when culling passengers (hah) the badly serviced ones bugger off first.
11:59:56 <LordAro> peter1138: there's a setting somewhere, i think
12:00:21 <LordAro> FLHerne: shows a lot of passengers via 2 towns in particular, but i'm still not sure what i'm supposed to be doing about it
12:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there was a PR, i don't know if it was included
12:01:07 <FLHerne> LordAro: Build more service on that route, or a new route that goes more directly to their ultimate destination?
12:01:39 <FLHerne> Mesh-ish networks tend to work a lot better than spine-and-branches
12:03:39 <peter1138> It's the bus-feeders that suffer.
12:03:40 <SpComb> yeah, sparser direct connections with better exchange connections offload a lot of traffic
12:04:18 <SpComb> like try and build your local lines from smaller towns so that they interchange with multiple larger cities and mainline services, not just one
12:04:45 <SpComb> and have multiple different mainline connections between different cities with different routings
12:04:47 <peter1138> Larger maps with sparser towns...
12:05:07 <SpComb> that too, the default towns are way too densely placed
12:05:16 <FLHerne> SpComb: The risk there is that you accidentally make the 'local' line the most-direct route between large places
12:05:33 <FLHerne> Usually avoidable though
12:06:16 <SpComb> I haven't noticed problems with that in cargodist, it seems to work pretty well for those kinds of topologies
12:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so, apparently the town cargo PR (#6965) was merged right after 1.9
12:06:28 <Samu> LordAro, what kind of question is that
12:06:52 <SpComb> not sure, does cargodist actually take travel time into account?
12:06:55 <peter1138> My lines are point-to-point, but then I'm doing ships, so that's pretty normal.
12:07:06 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, hmm, does it have settings I should tweak?
12:07:31 <peter1138> "Town cargo generation: Linear"
12:08:01 <peter1138> And a scale factor.
12:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't looked at the end part that got merged, but the original said something about a "high/medium/low" setting
12:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and some "PeterN" dude talked about keeping "original" as default
12:09:00 <peter1138> No, the default is linear.
12:09:24 <peter1138> I'm going to pretend I didn't want to but only because I can't be bothered to look.
12:09:35 <peter1138> Anyway, it's already on linear, not original, and still
12:10:03 <nielsm> imagine if it was on original, the numbers would be even worse!
12:10:12 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7890: Fix #6452: Reset only editable and visible settings from GUI https://git.io/JvkQK
12:10:32 <peter1138> town_cargo_scale_factor is in my config but doesn't exist. Oh dear.
12:10:43 <Samu> sorry if my answer is a bit blunt
12:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in my cargodest game, my stations had like 10k passengers waiting
12:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: probably remnant from older version of the PR
12:11:58 <Pikka> the linear/exponential thing is fine, but surely beyond that, cargo production is down to newgrf?
12:12:57 <peter1138> Maybe 'decay' for passengers needs to be quicker.
12:13:00 <nielsm> if newgrf houses have the production callback then that is used instead, and not affected by the setting
12:13:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: depends. on whether the NewGRF makes a production callback, or just relies on the inhabitants<->production relation
12:13:14 <peter1138> It's all very well coal sitting on a platform, it doesn't care.
12:14:43 <SpComb> ugh, my original town cargo generation factor was such a hack, that #6965 discussion reads so much better... shame it took such a long time to come up with that and fix it :)
12:16:42 <peter1138> So these gameplay complaints... other than cdist, and the amount of water, most of these settings are default :p
12:17:11 <Pikka> maybe some defaults should be changed
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12:19:13 <andythenorth_> lordaro cdist is solved by turning off town growth
12:19:48 <andythenorth_> and setting distance effect to about 15%, depending on map town density
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12:21:06 <SpComb> what's the default distance effecr, ref
12:21:11 <peter1138> Wolf01 solves it by playing No Man's Sky.
12:21:13 <andythenorth_> well it works and requires no further code
12:21:22 <andythenorth_> old lady, fly, spider
12:21:32 <peter1138> Turning off town growth really isn't an option.
12:21:45 <peter1138> Distance effect likely is fine.
12:21:54 <andythenorth_> I tended to agree until I tried it :p
12:22:34 <peter1138> Does turning off town growth stop towns growing?
12:23:00 <andythenorth_> i turned it to slow
12:23:13 <andythenorth_> and prevented towns building roads
12:23:26 <peter1138> I have cargo flow legend on for my company but I see dots for other players' stations.
12:23:38 <peter1138> Slow doesn't seem to be off?
12:23:45 <andythenorth_> means town growth keeps pace roughly with vehicle speed/capacity growth
12:24:13 <andythenorth_> if I want a bigger town I then build roads
12:24:24 <SpComb> at least TTD doesn't have private vehicles blocking traffic inside towns
12:24:29 <andythenorth_> “sandbox mode” :p
12:24:48 <Wolf01> Aaaaand I found my pc being disconnected from the modem for no reason... I had to unplug the eth cable and reconnect it
12:24:52 <SpComb> let me talk about my TpF2 metropolis with 10k residents, and how impossible it is to build tram networks in that city
12:25:22 <SpComb> the roads in nearby towns are blocked because the queue of cars trying to drive into the metropolis extends all the way along the regional roads to those other towns
12:30:00 <TrueBrain> depending on your edge location, it might still be broken btw; takes a bit of time to propagate :)
12:40:46 <LordAro> nielsm: istr michi_cc having something similar...
12:42:30 <michi_cc> It's not a block based-map though, but more like Chris Sawyer did RCT and Lomo.
12:42:36 <Wolf01> Wtf is my phone updating? Wasn't windows mobile out of support?
12:42:46 <michi_cc> A bit stale, but I am working on a proper rebase for RoadTypes.
12:43:51 <nielsm> I think block based has two advantages: 1) memory cache will put nearby tiles closer in memory, 2) allowing copy-on-write transactional map
12:44:29 <michi_cc> And of course the real final step is still missing because it needs some more ground work first: Reorganizing the map bits to make the Tile struct smaller.
12:45:35 <michi_cc> nielsm: Well, my change and a block-based map don't really conflict in any way. My branch is about having more than one Tile struct for each TileIndex, which doesn't make assumptions whether TileIndex'es itself are continous in memory.
12:46:28 <michi_cc> The assumption is only that all Tile's for a TileIndex are contiguous.
12:49:37 <nielsm> but is the idea that you have a "base land" tile on which you can stack road, rail, buildings, etc, in a mostly unlimited fashion?
12:50:14 <nielsm> (I assume there's just one base land, no support for caves)
12:56:44 <nielsm> from the type of changes it looks like it'd be more like remake than rebase tho
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13:20:20 <andythenorth> we have a discord? :o
13:23:02 <peter1138> Ah, well that's a different 'we'.
13:23:19 <peter1138> Hmm, red on my cargoflow legend.
13:25:20 <peter1138> And also other people's oilrig stuff on my cargoflow legend.
13:25:21 <LordAro> isn't that precisely the opposite of what you should do?
13:25:28 <LordAro> i had a lot of red on mine
13:25:58 <peter1138> Mmm, I wonder if that should be toggggggleable.
13:26:28 <LordAro> peter1138: per company? it is
13:26:43 <peter1138> It's shows neutral stuff.
13:27:01 <LordAro> i wouldn't have noticed that :p
13:27:12 <peter1138> And "per company" is also ignored for stations.
13:27:30 <andythenorth> forests get chopped
13:27:38 <andythenorth> I should do that in FIRS
13:28:25 <andythenorth> it's climate sensitive trees and crap, so it's not trivial
13:28:31 <andythenorth> draw trees andythenorth
13:31:30 <peter1138> I wonder if my old server is stuck on Press F1 to continue...
13:33:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
13:33:30 <andythenorth> oof only Floss 47 available now
13:41:35 <peter1138> Any new hovercraft?
13:46:17 <andythenorth> hmm need towns to accept goods
13:46:24 <andythenorth> maybe we should be able to grow them
13:46:31 <andythenorth> how about if delivering goods grew the town?
13:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> "solved" <-- a rough rule of thumb i've developed over the past years: if andy complains something is "broken", it's probably not. and if andy says something is "solved", it's probably not
13:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with distance effect is that it's global, but needs to be high for passengers, and low for other cargo
13:51:34 <andythenorth> JGR has cdist tuning per available cargo
13:51:52 <andythenorth> I have no opinion on whether it's good :P
13:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's technically solvable, but politically?
13:52:11 <andythenorth> JGR server game? o_O
13:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the amount of settings was a big discussion point in the development and merging process of cargodist
13:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ... which took like 5 years
13:53:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not a fan of "setting for each cargo individually" at all
13:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> however, i do like the other approach, split "asymmetric" distribution into "with distance effect" and "without distance effect"
13:53:53 * andythenorth delivers goods to grow towns
13:54:34 <peter1138> Hmm, might buy a new keyboard.
13:54:47 <peter1138> My mechanical didn't survive the Christmas spillage.
13:54:57 <andythenorth> have to keep the economy going
13:55:04 <andythenorth> all this anti-consumerism is good
13:55:08 <andythenorth> but it's bad for the economy
13:55:31 <andythenorth> have you tested?
13:55:53 <tenhi> hmm. no. i think i spilled on one of my old ones
13:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i spilled something, i took it apart, and clean the inside electronics foil thing
13:56:09 <tenhi> i once cleaned my old phone (pre-smartphone) with soap and water and killed it
13:56:12 <tenhi> shoulda taken out the battery first
13:56:39 <andythenorth> hmm can I save these iron ore mines?
13:56:43 <andythenorth> 18t / month right now
13:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> water, love, green thumb?
14:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, youtube, i don't want to listen to any christmas songs...
14:00:33 <rptr> i can't believe openttders don't use spotify ;)
14:00:56 <rptr> i mean the original author is the original author of openttd
14:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i can't watch interesting videos on spotify
14:01:35 <rptr> do you at least use adblock
14:03:51 <peter1138> Gah, this car spins out too easily.
14:06:02 <peter1138> Oh. I just rolled it :p
14:07:47 <andythenorth> ouch my iron ore mine closed
14:09:02 <andythenorth> where did LordAro's company go? :P
14:23:53 <TrueBrain> did he go bankrupt already?! (no clue what you are talking about, but I wanted to pitch in)
14:24:04 <andythenorth> maybe he got bored
14:24:21 <andythenorth> right that's enough vanilla OpenTTD for me :P
14:24:25 <TrueBrain> hmm ... I need to make a deployment to AWS that will break all services for a bit of time, and I have no way to test if they will recover :P
14:24:33 <andythenorth> it's nice to play like it's 1996
14:24:49 <andythenorth> but only for a bit :P
14:37:54 <nielsm> ottd server as a docker container when?
14:38:28 <michi_cc> nielsm: The core map code is remarkably stable, I didn't have to fix much so far. I might re-do the road commits, as they contain quite a lot of indentation/formatting changes that will make messy diffs, even if the logic didn't really change that much.
14:56:49 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
14:57:12 <peter1138> andythenorth, is that just an excuse?
14:57:23 <andythenorth> did I start losing?
14:57:49 <glx> commit check is really fast now
14:58:14 <LordAro> does it autoclean companies if they're not "occupied" for a certain amount of time?
14:58:23 <LordAro> pikka's disappeared randomly as well
14:58:42 <peter1138> Possibly if no password is set.
14:58:58 <glx> there are 2 autoclean settings IIRC
14:59:11 <andythenorth> yeah mine had a password
15:00:19 <andythenorth> so ideally we need daylength eh
15:00:58 <andythenorth> it's solved by using date cheat regularly
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15:05:30 <andythenorth> OpenTTD 123.5% of CPU :P
15:05:57 <peter1138> Meh, episode 3 is kinda hard :/
15:06:25 * andythenorth closes the train window
15:06:38 <andythenorth> normality restored
15:08:24 <peter1138> So yesterday I ate far too many snacks. Today I probably already have. So shall I just say sod it and start drinking for the rest of the day?
15:08:36 <peter1138> It's too damn cold to do outside exercise stuff.
15:10:39 <rptr> does anyone actually do those body exercises and stay fit
15:11:07 <rptr> for me only going to the gym works, cause i go there, stay for 60-90 min and get stuff done. if i was going to do planks, i'd do one, then i'd rest the 90 seconds before the next rep but get bored and do something else
15:11:26 <rptr> perhaps in a prison cell where there's literally nothing to do
15:11:34 <rptr> also i say drink peter1138
15:11:46 <rptr> if-- you tell me what i should eat/make
15:14:49 <peter1138> Meh, just ate salad, which was great. Followed by a double portion of crisps. Ooops. And a chewy nut bar. And some cheese on ryvita. And... I'm doomed.
15:15:02 <peter1138> And I just killed 3 arch-viles, so that's good.
15:15:26 <peter1138> A little bit of Back To Saturn X that I was stuck on :p
15:16:42 <rptr> a few yrs ago i lived abroad and i found... oh no. i mean weetabix. i saw weetabix for the first time. man that stuff is amazing, for some reason
15:16:51 <rptr> much better than plain oats and milk which is what i normally eat
15:18:08 <peter1138> Ryvita is a cracker.
15:18:36 <andythenorth> 39 trains won't draw themselves :P
15:19:09 <peter1138> The cheese was Gorgonzola Picante from Lidl... reduced to 69p, kinda wish I'd got more but then again I'd have to eat it.
15:19:25 <peter1138> One day I will run out of stuff to eat in my house. That will make things much easier
15:20:37 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
15:20:56 <rptr> i opened a brand new bag of shredded cheese ("tex mex", expiry 11 february) and it tasted like gorgonzola. oh i figured it must be spicy for tex mex... no it was just normal cheese that had molded
15:21:29 <rptr> i always get reduced stuff at lidl but here they are useless at seeing the "REDUCED !!!!" sticker. i paid full price so many times
15:21:42 <rptr> last time i was too embarrassed to ask for my 1.5 euros back for the kiddie yoghurts
15:23:38 <peter1138> Sometimes. This was "30%" off, from 99p to 69p. But the original price was £1.69 or something I think.
15:28:05 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
15:29:16 <TrueBrain> glx: "Commit checker / Commit checker (pull_request) Successful in 18s" <- you got to love those times :)
15:32:25 <TrueBrain> so someone made a PR for AWS CDK to fix his use-case, completely destroying what I have build :D You got to love regressions ...
15:32:37 <TrueBrain> *wrote lengthy issue* :P
15:34:11 <nielsm> hm would it make sense to introduce a ScriptUserInterface class for GS just to hold a bunch of constants that don't feel like they belong in ScriptStoryPage ?
15:35:38 <nielsm> or add some stuff to ScriptWindow that is not generated? I wonder if that will work
15:41:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed https://git.io/Jvkbl
15:41:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you had locations to change too you mentioned? ^^
15:42:23 <TrueBrain> I am just giving you the poke I promised ;)
15:43:00 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end https://git.io/Jvkb4
15:43:17 <andythenorth> think it's fine, nothing seems to need changed
15:43:34 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed https://git.io/Jvkb0
15:43:47 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] LordAro approved pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end https://git.io/Jvkbg
15:44:40 <LordAro> speaking of food, i need to do my shopping before the shops close
15:45:09 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #3: Fix: links no longer need to have 'index.html' at the end https://git.io/Jvkb4
15:45:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/Jvkbr
15:45:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: still got 75 minutes
15:45:54 <LordAro> shop is only 5 minute walk away
15:46:05 <TrueBrain> I am not here to judge how you shop :)
15:50:15 <peter1138> Just pulled out a keyboard from the loft... and put a screen on the old server...
15:50:19 <peter1138> Yeah... Press F1 to continue.
15:50:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #145: Fix: links to documentation have changed https://git.io/Jvkbl
16:34:40 <Samu> while I was spying builds, i found a problem with script_goal.cpp
16:35:27 <Samu> i didn't touch script_goal.cpp at all
16:42:08 <LordAro> Samu: known, it's a false positive warning
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17:05:24 <nielsm> a way for game script to show information to the player
17:05:42 <nielsm> and with this PR I'm working on also a way for it to interact with the player
17:06:01 <nielsm> the story book feature already exists, I'm working on adding clickable buttons as a new feature to it
17:06:37 <rptr> what would be an example?
17:07:26 <nielsm> in citybuilder it could be using a button to select your destination city as an alternative to building HQ
17:08:07 <_dp_> as much as I like any gui for gs I've no idea what to do with those buttons xD
17:08:08 <nielsm> or maybe the citybuilder could award you for completing a goal, letting you pick one other city you want to get a rating boost in
17:08:51 <rptr> so it's basically letting you define GUIs in GS?
17:08:58 <rptr> can't you use the existing GUI?
17:09:04 <rptr> i mean, it looks like you "made your own" buttons?
17:09:58 <nielsm> GS can't do much with the GUI, it pretty much just has the goals list and the story book
17:09:59 * _dp_ actually wonders how many players ever read story book
17:10:20 <rptr> story book = that white book next to trophy button?
17:12:28 <_dp_> I've lost count to how many times I had to explain to player where company goals are
17:15:54 <nielsm> the documentation for doxygen is pretty bad imo
17:16:03 <nielsm> shame for it being a documentation tool
17:16:23 <rptr> shouldn't use it for that reaso
17:17:38 <TrueBrain> I need to provision the "docs.openttd.org" again; sadly, this means removing + creating, so it will be unavailable for a bit of time (~30 minutes). I hope everyone will survive :P
17:18:39 <peter1138> I think everyone will manage.
17:19:01 <peter1138> Can I just say... thank you for taking the time to do all this infrastructure work :D
17:19:01 <Borg> unless after provisioning. we will see 404..
17:19:24 <TrueBrain> peter1138: you can ;) :D
17:24:04 <TrueBrain> Borg: well, it is CloudFront, so no promises ... that is one hell of a weird service
17:25:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: why not just 2 variables? Why bitshift?
17:25:39 <nielsm> because of constraints of the existing design
17:26:29 <TrueBrain> during the initial development of the API, we tried to avoid these things, as users tend to not understand :D
17:28:27 <LordAro> agreed, better just to change the existing function (and provide compatibility patches)
17:29:02 <nielsm> that's 2 functions that need up to 3 more variations each then
17:30:01 <nielsm> or I can make 3 functions to produce a "magic" reference value that can be passed to the existing NewElement and UpdateElement functions
17:30:22 <nielsm> I suppose that's safer too, since it will work even if the packing needs to change
17:30:43 <TrueBrain> we do the same for things like Tile etc
17:30:52 <TrueBrain> script-builders should not care what the value is
17:31:38 <TrueBrain> okay, even deleting a CloudFront distribution takes for-ever .. oops ..
17:40:40 <peter1138> How many computers does one person need at home?
17:44:31 <peter1138> I... have somewhat more than zero. Hmm.
17:46:37 <peter1138> TrueBrain, oh god I'd forgotten about them!
17:46:52 <Wolf01> 8 if I count the phone
17:47:10 <TrueBrain> nielsm: uint32 as return value? Not a custom type? Just to make typing in the API more clear?
17:47:19 <glx> nielsm: intellisense is not smart with doxygen
17:47:38 <peter1138> Hmm, my DHCP lease table is... 37 items currently.
17:47:38 <LordAro> desktop + fileserver + phone + laptop
17:47:47 <nielsm> TrueBrain: yeah that's just the type for the reference parameter to the NewElement and UpdateElement functions
17:48:02 <LordAro> plus a few other things that probably wouldn't turn on without effort
17:48:08 <nielsm> would it work with just a typedef?
17:48:24 <Wolf01> peter1138: strange, I have only 17 on dhcp :P
17:48:26 <TrueBrain> bit too long ago for me to remember :D
17:48:37 <TrueBrain> but I know we do this more often, in the API type it, while it is uint32 in the backend
17:48:46 <TrueBrain> but a nice solution btw :)
17:48:48 <peter1138> Heck, I have 5 routers (3 are APs) :/
17:49:08 <TrueBrain> I even have computers monitoring the water-level of my plants :D
17:49:15 <TrueBrain> (and they still die, but who is counting)
17:49:15 <peter1138> Also one of my pis does not appear to expire arp entries.
17:49:24 <TrueBrain> pis, ofc, forgot about those ... 23!
17:49:49 <peter1138> 3 here. This one doing my shell duties, another just... sitting there, and another is a retropie.
17:50:05 <peter1138> 3 ESP8266 although they are not on or even programmed.
17:50:08 <TrueBrain> one connected to my 3D printer .. best investment ever
17:50:19 <TrueBrain> I have more than 10 ESP8266s ... I might have overdone it a bit :P
17:50:28 <peter1138> I get as far as thinking about a 3D printer but not actually getting one.
17:50:31 <TrueBrain> temp, water, light, CO2 .. so many sensors :D
17:50:35 <peter1138> Cheaper in bulk, though.
17:50:43 <TrueBrain> I needed something to put the ESPs in :P
17:50:48 <TrueBrain> so I bought a 3D printer to do so ....
17:51:03 <peter1138> I... ought to replace my heating system. It's very old-school manual.
17:51:27 <peter1138> There's a thermostat on the wall that switches mains power, because there's no data signals.
17:52:09 <peter1138> I guess my lxc containers on my server don't count.
17:52:24 <peter1138> But I do have a piano PC, heh
17:52:25 <TrueBrain> if we start counting that peter1138, we are doomed :P
17:53:18 <peter1138> I need to figure out how to fix my old forums. When I move it from the old server (wheezy, lol) to the new one (buster) it fails :/
17:53:47 <peter1138> It is at least now running as a container.
17:55:44 <TrueBrain> what I found out with the ESPs .. that the world is talking a lot about IoT, but the software around it is really lacking
17:55:54 <TrueBrain> you have to build most things yourself ... which is stupid
17:57:08 <Wolf01> I'm (at work) writing a software for remote controlling systems based on ESP32 through mqtt
17:57:14 <peter1138> I had one ESP running temperature sensors, and pushing the data as mqtt over via. But the somehow the unit still operated its own wifi SSID.
17:57:26 <TrueBrain> I dont understand why people like ESP32 .. it is powerhungry, and adds little benefit over ESP8266 ..
17:58:06 <Wolf01> Because that's what the customer is using
17:58:22 <TrueBrain> sadly, ESP is also focusing on ESP32 ... meaning the RTOS of ESP8266 is a bit annoyingly supported
17:58:41 <Wolf01> Maybe that's the reason
17:58:57 <glx> IoT is often very unsecure
17:59:20 <Wolf01> Yes, I'm really worried about that too
17:59:54 <TrueBrain> peter1138: the (closed source) firmware ESP makes is not of the best quality :P
17:59:59 <TrueBrain> like .. it really isn't
18:00:11 <glx> usually they think about features, not about safety
18:00:18 <Wolf01> Also they decided to base it on Google Cloud IoT
18:00:32 <TrueBrain> I was shocked how expensive all those IoT backbones are
18:00:51 <TrueBrain> also LoWaN is insanely expensive
18:02:11 <TrueBrain> but it is fun to toy around with, and build your own IoT network, I guess :)
18:02:29 <TrueBrain> one of the things I run into: via WEP I can drop a payload (measurement, what-ever) in 300ms
18:02:33 <TrueBrain> with WPA2, it takes ~2 seconds
18:02:47 <TrueBrain> somehow ... batteries deplete faster with WPA2 :P
18:03:03 <peter1138> More complex handshake.
18:03:20 <dwfreed> also 3des is a lot less CPU intensive than AES
18:03:53 <rptr> is there any AI that can "renovate" its tracks?
18:04:18 <LordAro> trAIns upgrades, i think
18:04:57 <rptr> i suppose upgrade is not too hard, can be done without knowing which trains do what
18:05:05 <rptr> or i mean, without remembering what you did before
18:05:42 <glx> you need to know exaclty where the trains are
18:05:58 <glx> and send them to depots before ugrading tracks
18:07:09 <TrueBrain> peter1138 / dwfreed: sadly, has little to do with that (it should be a bit slower, but not 7 times). It is the implementation that is at fault. which took me a while to figure out ..
18:07:18 <TrueBrain> what did DorpsGek do to you to deserve that poke?!
18:07:38 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/JepYW
18:08:30 <nielsm> I was actually just not watching my own console and didn't see git failed push because I had rebased
18:08:47 <TrueBrain> happy to see DorpsGek could help :)
18:08:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:08:58 <glx> 11s commit checker, it's so fast
18:09:02 <rptr> can't you just get all trains, sendall to depot, upgrade *all* rail. then create new depots next to existing, and for each depot, take neighbouring depot, clone each train's orders, tada
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18:11:24 <TrueBrain> right, docs are back .. took a lot longer than I wanted ... owh well
18:13:21 <rptr> someone wrote on the forum (eons ago) to nag TrueBrain to allow non-latest version dependencies :P
18:16:25 <andythenorth> what shall I look at on the internet?
18:17:48 <nielsm> mine will be having their 5th birdthday this year
18:19:30 <nielsm> I have two male cockatiels
18:19:59 <peter1138> Meh, wish I could stop eating today. Still going to have dinner but will miss the enjoyment of it.
18:20:01 <rptr> don't they make a lot of noise?
18:20:19 <rptr> oh niels is danish. that's nice
18:21:05 <rptr> peter1138, you should ask nielsm to send you some danish pastries
18:24:25 <andythenorth> I failed at lunch
18:24:45 <LordAro> andythenorth: what a noob
18:24:51 <peter1138> I mean... I failed oppositely.
18:25:04 <peter1138> Combine our failures.
18:25:12 <nielsm> yes parrots have a very simple functioning: input food, output noise and poop
18:25:50 <nielsm> some also take scritches as input, and some will produce destruction
18:26:25 <rptr> oh hey peter1138, at Lidl in the baking section, do they have this danish pastry "cake" which is huge?
18:27:43 <nielsm> reminder that "danish pastries" as produced outside denmark are typically only vaguely similar to what you purchse in bakeries in denmark
18:27:58 <rptr> yes but "dagmartarte" is genuine here :P
18:28:12 <rptr> i can confirm that danish pastries outside denmark are worthless and i never eat them unless i go to denmark
18:28:23 <andythenorth> where is pikka bob?
18:28:26 <andythenorth> I have train questions
18:29:50 * LordAro tries losing at tanks a bit more
18:30:16 <andythenorth> LordAro: which tanks? :P
18:30:25 <rptr> superlib doesn't have a rail pathfinder?
18:30:29 <andythenorth> the full version?
18:30:38 <andythenorth> are the games quite long?
18:31:04 <LordAro> the timelimit on them is 15min, they're usually not more than 10
18:31:07 <rptr> andythenorth, are you obsessed with trains?
18:31:19 <rptr> who is the guy on the forum with "my last train journey was..."
18:31:19 <andythenorth> I'm obsessed with drawing trains
18:31:31 <andythenorth> actual RL trains I like, but am far from obsessed with
18:31:48 <rptr> i used to take a 4 hour train regularly, so many people told me they were jealous :P
18:31:49 <andythenorth> if I go to a heritage railway or something, it mostly actually bores me
18:32:01 <peter1138> My last train journey was... to London. How unexciting.
18:32:12 <rptr> the best train i tried was in the balkans/eastern europe, romania, bulgaria
18:32:19 <andythenorth> used to be more fun when you could stick your head out of the window
18:32:31 <andythenorth> now they're like a mobile starbucks
18:32:59 <rptr> i remember drinking Romanian toilet water on that train journey. lol
18:33:03 <andythenorth> also, WoT game length is quite short eh?
18:33:05 <andythenorth> but the maps are big?
18:33:06 <rptr> i am sure that will kill me in 10 yeras
18:33:13 <andythenorth> Blitz is about 6 minutes I think
18:35:17 <LordAro> andythenorth: depends on the map, but you can usually cross it in no more than 30s
18:35:28 <LordAro> but yeah, usually i die very quickly and switch to another tank
18:35:41 <andythenorth> I can't cross most blitz maps in 30s
18:35:47 <andythenorth> but I mostly drive T95
18:35:53 <LordAro> not necessarily *safely* in 30s
18:36:01 <LordAro> you're quite liable to get blown up before you cross the map :p
18:36:35 <andythenorth> there's no mac WoT
18:36:39 <andythenorth> otherwise I'd try it
18:58:12 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Phx01 commented on issue #7939: Feature Request: Moving/Relocating/Offsetting (Certain) Industries https://git.io/JvUr7
19:08:17 <andythenorth> Blitz gets that way
19:08:26 <andythenorth> seems to generate losing streaks :P
19:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Bored of Losing? Try Frostpunk :p
19:09:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: likely barely above 50%
19:10:15 <andythenorth> mine bounces between 40% and 70% for any given few days
19:10:26 <andythenorth> 60%+ is just more fun to play :P
19:11:08 <andythenorth> sometimes it's the teams, sometimes it's....me :|
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19:58:13 <TrueBrain> Doxygen tries to load a Javascript file that doesn't exist ..
19:58:17 <TrueBrain> that is generating a lot of 404s :)
20:04:46 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: return True; ?
20:06:03 <TrueBrain> I wonder why Doxygen is doing that, tbh
20:06:08 <TrueBrain> sounds like a boo-boo
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21:00:52 <nielsm> hm is there an existing type that'a a bitfield of vehicle types?
21:04:15 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
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21:11:31 <TrueBrain> right, 2 hours later .. and I think I finally can redirect domains to another on AWS :P Nothing is easy
21:11:46 <TrueBrain> Doxygen is weird .. for the AI/GS docs, it doesn't generate all javascript files it does refer to in the HTML
21:11:55 <TrueBrain> when you google this, more people have issues with it
21:12:02 <TrueBrain> but ... not really a clear picture why it happens
21:12:07 <TrueBrain> it is annoying for sure
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21:15:41 <rptr> hmph. the AI pathfinder library is so slow even at a distance of like 10 tiles. hm
21:20:49 <nielsm> rptr: I don't think squirrel is especially fast, really...
21:21:04 <rptr> i dunno. some things seem fast
21:22:15 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain opened pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen https://git.io/Jvkjy
21:22:48 <rptr> tbh a super-simple DFS algorithm would almost be okay. just keep going until you get there. you'll get an awfully long path potentially but it'll look nice
21:22:48 <andythenorth> lol pathfinder has a really dumb edge case
21:23:00 <rptr> and hopefully there will be no major obstacles so you can basically go straight ahead
21:23:05 <andythenorth> stations A and B, two equal distance routes between them
21:23:09 <rptr> i mean, how often did you build a railway line where you had to make lots of turns
21:23:13 <andythenorth> waypoints 1 and 2
21:23:24 <andythenorth> train has orders to go A->1->B
21:23:41 <andythenorth> it goes A->B->1 (because it can loop back at B)
21:24:25 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] nielsmh approved pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen https://git.io/JvkjQ
21:24:34 <rptr> i will look into D*. it seems perfect for OpenTTD. it deals with changes in the path. make the shortest, when you reach an obstacle that wasn't there before, recalculate from that point. but it's basically a-star where you recalculate i guess
21:24:49 <rptr> andythenorth, i was talking about the AI pathfinder library :P
21:24:59 <rptr> they are not necessarily exactly the same though i think both implement the same algorithm
21:25:16 <rptr> but that sounds very stupid andy
21:25:34 <rptr> can't it be solved with more waypoints? i never had that problem
21:25:43 <andythenorth> I am adding more waypoints :)
21:26:15 <rptr> add a waypoint to each rail tile
21:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: there are some artificial limitations to slow down AIs that attempt to do expensive/long calculations
21:29:31 <rptr> ok. only in the openttd source, not in the library i guess?
21:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: and also things that alter map state are generally suspended for one whole tick
21:30:14 <nielsm> scripts have a max number of ops they can run per tick, with some banking going on I think
21:30:30 <rptr> i suppose i could turn that into a setting?
21:30:31 <nielsm> and depending on difficulty settings, AI scripts only run every N ticks instead of every tick
21:30:45 <rptr> since AI is basically a singleplayer thing and it doesn't affect people if you want to turbo-charge your AI
21:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> rptr: i'm pretty sure that is a setting, but you can only edit it in the .cfg/console
21:30:52 <rptr> oh yes. i saw that. i forgot
21:31:01 <rptr> ok thanks. will have to remember
21:31:11 <rptr> by .cfg/console you mean my .openttd/... folder?
21:33:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #42: Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen https://git.io/Jvkjy
21:33:46 <DorpsGek_III_> - Fix: workaround a bug in a Debian patch for Doxygen (#42) (by TrueBrain)
21:35:43 <rptr> shouldn't IsBuildableRectangle make sure that there is no existing building?
21:36:26 <TrueBrain> right, what next ...
21:36:52 <nielsm> yes IsBuildableRectangle just check if all tiles in the rectangle are buildable
21:37:29 <Samu> check openttd code for that
21:37:30 <rptr> my ai wants to build on the same spot as it did before
21:38:16 <rptr> ok let's get rid of all documentation
21:40:14 <rptr> it's very strange cause it worked before...
21:54:31 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/JepYW
21:56:50 <glx> rptr: maybe the town refused
21:59:28 <rptr> no. it built a station, then it looks for a new location, and it picks the exact same one...
22:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like an error in your AI
22:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> like, using the wrong variable
22:15:30 <Samu> meanwhile, im testing 15 CivilAIs in a 2kx2k map
22:19:24 <rptr> it's a cooperative AI (you have cheat to put yourself in the same team)
22:20:03 <rptr> but it's for my own filthy uses anyway
22:20:18 <rptr> considering how shit it is i don't think anyone will want it
22:21:34 <rptr> should have just adapted choochoo. that worked
22:25:38 <rptr> tho. once i have the coop parts done i could just make it play solo...
22:26:55 <Samu> 3 CivilAis still started near each other, given the map size :(
22:27:13 <Samu> random not being that kind of random
22:28:08 <rptr> presumably it has some certain starting strategy
22:37:34 <Samu> I like it for testing AIs on it
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22:49:11 <Samu> which other AIs work well with multiple instances?
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23:02:30 <peter1138> Oh, hmm. php url rewriting apparently messes up with php-fpm :/
23:12:08 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
23:12:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
23:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> "php url rewriting" sounds like the start of a thriller movie
23:17:55 <Borg> PHP is generally scary..
23:17:56 <Eddi|zuHause> where i'm not sure if it later turns into a spy movie or a doomsday movie
23:20:19 <peter1138> Oh, it doesn't mess it up. AllowOverrides None messes it up :p
23:20:37 <peter1138> Apparently AllowOverrides in a vhost section isn't working. Hmm.
23:46:40 <rptr> what's a nice AI to look at?
23:46:57 <rptr> i guess i'll try simple, to see the original behaviour
23:51:44 <rptr> wow. simpleai is so cute
23:54:04 <FLHerne> AIAI used to be the one to beat, ChooChoo might have beaten it by now
23:54:40 <FLHerne> If you look at CivilAI, you can ask Pikka how it works whenever he shows up here next
23:56:08 <rptr> "the one to beat" as in try to beat in singleplayer?
23:56:34 <rptr> oh i can read the code and all. and i understand the idea with civil. i just wanted to look at some *in action* to see if they make nice things
23:57:07 <rptr> choochoo is my reference AI whose code i look at
23:58:24 <FLHerne> Years ago, when I played with AIs, AIAI was the only one remotely capable of keeping up with a human player
23:58:33 <FLHerne> The others were just hopeless
23:58:47 <FLHerne> That might have changed since :P
23:59:41 <FLHerne> ChooChoo is the only one I remember seeing that builds really-joined-up networks
23:59:57 <FLHerne> WmDOT builds roads, but it mostly does that for its own sake
continue to next day ⏵
