IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-01-08
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00:04:05 <Samu> i'm studying HackaLittleBit ship collision avoidance, and when there's more than one choice available, it just picks the first tested choice, doesn't even look whether the 2nd choice is also valid
00:05:49 <Samu> well, it simplifies the code, but... this would be a nice opportunity to randomize the choice
00:05:57 <Samu> if both are valid, of course
00:06:06 <LordAro> Samu: could be a speed concern
00:08:55 <Samu> if the ship is heading towards NE direction and find another ship in the way, it uses KillFirstBit function, and finds 2 possible tracks, one towards SE direction, other towards NW. KillFirstBit makes it test the SE direction first
00:09:15 <Samu> if it can follow it, bam, that's the one it picks, disregards the other entirely
00:10:05 <Samu> only if it can't be followed, then it tests the other one second
00:10:32 <Samu> i think this could lead to some bias about direction choices
00:16:02 <Samu> I'm 90% sure this would invalidate ship path cache but have not tested that yet
00:16:32 <Samu> this would be fine before ship cache was added
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08:23:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #137: Fix version detection, top-left banner, and add deployment badges https://git.io/JveEy
08:34:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/Jveuv
09:00:00 <andythenorth> what haps Pikka? :)
09:02:24 <Pikka> also, longer trains for AI
09:02:46 <Pikka> tinkering around the edges rather than taking on building a new pathfinder :)
09:08:31 <andythenorth> 6850hp better than 8500hp
09:09:09 <andythenorth> 95mph better than 96mph :P for freight (don't ask)
09:09:44 <andythenorth> it's the last train that either (1) fills a gap (2) I just like it
09:09:54 <andythenorth> then I should FIRS v4 eh
09:11:08 <Pikka> just liking it's enough reason
09:12:33 <andythenorth> should I add backstory for engines?
09:12:44 <andythenorth> maybe we could display it in the game, in an extra window
09:12:58 <andythenorth> "this is based on a class 37, the ultimate engine"
09:13:09 <andythenorth> "this is another class 37, with new paint"
09:13:47 <andythenorth> "This 2000hp class 37 has a class 50 fuel pump"
09:14:00 <andythenorth> "Which is convenient for game progression"
09:14:34 <Pikka> you can fit a few text lines in the purchase list ;)
09:19:43 <andythenorth> that I haven't done that....suggests it's a BAD IDEA?
09:20:56 <Pikka> well, I just added "traction type: steam, use for: heavy freight" etc
09:21:12 <andythenorth> I have 'Role: [something]'
09:21:22 <Pikka> since I don't append (electric) to the vehicle names and maybe I shouldn't assume players know what needs electrification :)
09:21:23 <andythenorth> and electro-diesels get both power ratings
09:21:35 <andythenorth> ooh no name suffix? o_O
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14:56:02 <Samu> Chance16(1, 2) is this 50%?
14:58:40 <LordAro> Samu: you waste so much time by "testing" instead of reading and understanding the code you're running
14:59:46 <Samu> but yes, i dont understand how that means 50%
15:01:49 <LordAro> "This function returns true with (a/b) probability."
15:01:57 <LordAro> reading the function's doc comment would be a good start
15:02:42 <Samu> number_of_falses 510 unsigned int
15:02:42 <Samu> number_of_trues 490 unsigned int
15:10:12 <Samu> if there is more than 1 choice, always do a 50% gamble
15:10:37 <Samu> but would this mean equal chance for every choice available?
15:14:33 <Samu> so far i never found 3 choices
15:19:36 <Samu> assert(choices <= 2); and never asserted on a 5000 ship game
15:23:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #138: Fix: New EUR bank details on donation page. https://git.io/Jve6t
15:23:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #138: Fix: New EUR bank details on donation page. https://git.io/JveKB
15:23:24 <LordAro> guess we need a new website release then
15:23:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #137: Fix version detection, top-left banner, and add deployment badges https://git.io/Jve6m
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15:24:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #137: Fix version detection, top-left banner, and add deployment badges https://git.io/JveOZ
15:24:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: is it not bed time? :o
15:25:13 <andythenorth> I often stay up past bed time
15:25:21 <andythenorth> grown up privileges :P
15:28:06 <andythenorth> what shall I call this Brighton Belle train?
15:29:54 <andythenorth> I'm saving that for a rainy day
15:30:41 <LordAro> TrueBrain: has DorpsGek_III been updated to newest revision? it's still not announcing tags... Did I do it wrong?
15:33:34 <peter1138> I seem to be unable to stop eating still :(
15:34:24 <Sacro> andythenorth: the best loco
15:34:36 <andythenorth> Error: not in Iron Horse
15:34:44 <andythenorth> new version, change everything?
15:35:03 <Sacro> The glory ddays of steam, and locos
15:35:07 <Sacro> And then into MUs and stuff
15:35:34 <andythenorth> in newgrf, or Hornby? o_O
15:36:32 <Sacro> I would love more hornby, but space and cost
15:37:47 <Pikka> there's a UKRS3 somewhere
15:37:55 <Pikka> smokey joe might have to wait for the industry set
15:38:46 <andythenorth> maybe I bring back High Flyer
15:38:51 <andythenorth> think it was a name in Horse 1
15:38:56 <andythenorth> nice for that train
15:39:34 <Sacro> I do also like the BROS stuff
15:43:07 <andythenorth> there's also RUKTS
15:43:14 <andythenorth> and some RUKTS addons or something
15:45:44 <Samu> magic! TrackBits next_bits = TrackToTrackBits(TrackdirToTrack(NextTrackdir(TrackToTrackdir(track))));
16:10:49 <Sacro> andythenorth: yeah, need more rukts stuff
16:22:44 <Samu> ships still collide, it's hard to judge this patch
16:22:51 <Samu> i guess it's not trunk worthy
16:25:39 <Samu> giving it a chance to pick a direction can turn out to be bad
16:26:02 <Samu> if a ship turns left and the opposite ship turns right, there's a perpendicular collision
16:26:41 <Samu> what it was is better, but still not perfect
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18:51:13 <Samu> Assertion failed at line 112 of D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\src\core\pool_type.hpp: index < this->first_unused
18:52:06 <nielsm> something trying to call Thing::Get(id) where the id is not a valid Thing
18:53:23 <Samu> is it caused by me? or hmm openttd?
18:53:56 <nielsm> well when did it happen?
18:54:13 <nielsm> during startup, while loading a game, during play?
18:54:19 <LordAro> it's known to happen with a few old savegames
18:54:37 <Samu> not a savegame, it's a newgame
18:54:50 <LordAro> not the same thing then
18:54:54 <nielsm> is it your own build of openttd?
18:54:55 <LordAro> still could be anything
18:55:07 <Samu> it's my build, but based on 4th january
18:55:17 <nielsm> try doing a full rebuild
18:55:29 <LordAro> complete stacktrace would be a good start
18:55:37 <nielsm> because I definitely got weird unexplainable bugs that went away after a full rebuild
18:55:48 <nielsm> because of weird VS2019 C++ linker
18:58:55 <Samu> i dont have a stacktrade thing
18:59:16 <nielsm> did it make the .dmp file?
18:59:33 <nielsm> open that one in visual studio
19:00:02 <nielsm> and it will launch the debugger with the minidump loaded
19:00:15 <nielsm> then you can examine the stack at the time of the crash
19:00:45 * LordAro trades nielsm one stack
19:02:02 <dekeract[m]> Hey guys, one question related to timetables (a very nice feature that I use regularly in CB games), I notice that it doesn't work properly if trains are released in the wrong order, it is because when you ctrl+start date, it arranges them according to their vehicle number, is there a way to correct this? Maybe remembering the time when they were last at the start station?
19:07:55 <LordAro> dekeract[m]: sounds like you've run into an edgecase timetables aren't particularly set up to deal with
19:08:00 <LordAro> there are many such edgecases :)
19:08:08 <dekeract[m]> It's not really an edgecase
19:08:15 <dekeract[m]> As it is the case 99% of the time :)
19:09:14 <LordAro> for you, perhaps, but not necessarily anyone else ;)
19:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it arranges them by the previous start time
19:09:21 <dekeract[m]> I've learned to work around it by taking care to let them out in the right order but I lose valuable time that I can spend building more railways
19:09:22 * LordAro has never understood timetables
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19:13:18 <Wolf01> I did, but they are a pita to set up in ottd
19:13:38 <Wolf01> And I stopped to use them after a while
19:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> dekeract[m]: the trick is to let them overtake at the starting station
19:17:07 <dekeract[m]> I have my workarounds
19:18:07 <dekeract[m]> Wolf01: they are very usefull when set-up correctly for CB, where you need consistent arrivals so you don't get red months
19:19:47 <dekeract[m]> Maybe waiting for the train to arrive at the first station in the orders list before giving it a start date?
19:19:50 <Samu> what are the odds i'm getting a crash again soon?
19:20:03 <Samu> i dont have the pdb files
19:20:48 <dekeract[m]> I'm inexperienced at programming (only really learned c) so I'm asking whether this would be even possible to make
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19:36:06 <Samu> seems the crash is about AIs cloning vehicle orders, this part of the code was edited by me let me investigate
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19:43:55 <andythenorth> aren't timetables fixed in JGR?
19:45:32 <dekeract[m]> I'm using btpro's version of openttd
19:45:51 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:51:59 <Samu> alright, it's a bug in my code, nothing on openttd side, sorry :(
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20:02:13 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> aren't timetables fixed in JGR? <- yup, I tried them and seem a lot easier
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21:05:39 <_dp_> dekeract[m], it's much easier to make a transfer station for storing excess cargo than bother with timetables
21:05:51 <_dp_> can also advertise it to keep more cargo
21:06:09 <Samu> found another crash, wow i'm on a roll
21:06:46 <TrueBrain> LordAro: not updated yet;this weekend I hope while migrating to AWS
21:06:55 <TrueBrain> So it is not you :)
21:14:07 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think you said before, but i wasn't sure :)
21:21:41 <andythenorth> shall I ask TrueBrain questions about cloud crap?
21:23:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: ask him about cumulonimbus
21:26:30 <frosch123> i am sure the cloud water cycle involves admin tears
21:28:14 <frosch123> did anyone port ottd gui to qt yet?
21:29:03 <TrueBrain> How about OpenTTD on Stadia? :D
21:29:12 <TrueBrain> Controller support is all we need
21:29:26 <nielsm> would that let me run openttd on my 2004 nokie smartphone?
21:29:53 <andythenorth> openttd in web assembly?
21:29:56 <andythenorth> oh we did that already
21:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> was nokia still good in 2004?
21:30:27 <frosch123> nokia was fine till 2007
21:30:41 <andythenorth> 8210 or something
21:32:09 <andythenorth> maybe I get one of those
21:32:16 <andythenorth> and dig out my tiny ipod for music
21:32:21 <andythenorth> and my digital camera
21:32:27 <andythenorth> and my palm pilot
21:32:31 <milek7_> software on these is horrible
21:32:34 <andythenorth> ha ha lies, I never had a palm pilot
21:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a thing where nokia failed to provide a smartphone, and then a thing where they wanted to make two that both went nowhere?
21:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no,that was after apple...
21:36:09 <nielsm> I had first a smart-ish ericsson phone, then a somewht smarter nokia, and then jumped on the nokia lumia train
21:36:55 <nielsm> iirc I managed to install scummvm on the ericsson, it was not actually a very good experience
21:38:02 <nielsm> stiil have my last nokia-branded microsoft lumia phone here, still love the design of it
21:38:58 <nielsm> but not using it, had to jump onto android some years ago
21:39:25 <nielsm> (to some extent because the windows 10 update never arrived to that last one)
21:44:07 <supermop_work> i had to move to android when my palm pre stopped being a thing
21:50:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened issue #139: Wrong link target of the link on the OpenTTD-lettering in the page header https://git.io/JveQw
21:57:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on issue #139: Wrong link target of the link on the OpenTTD-lettering in the page header https://git.io/JveQw
22:31:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/Jve7a
22:32:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied https://git.io/Jve7X
22:34:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements https://git.io/Jve7D
22:40:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements https://git.io/Jve7A
22:42:29 <supermop_work> someone is playing regulate on the office sonos
22:44:30 <andythenorth> I'll play it too
22:44:33 <andythenorth> everyone play it
22:47:38 <Samu> alignment of vehicle_sl.cpp is pretty messed up, there's no real alignment if you look at the whole file
22:47:55 <Samu> or if there is, the criteria is weird to me
22:48:03 <LordAro> Samu: wouldn't worry too much about it then
22:49:17 <supermop_work> move to sino-horse roster?
22:49:40 <supermop_work> idk i like electric freight
22:49:48 <andythenorth> I kind of like it's looks
22:49:53 <supermop_work> i guess could just use the flanders storm forever
22:49:55 <andythenorth> but there's no UK equivalent of any kind
22:49:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied https://git.io/Jej9g
22:50:17 <supermop_work> flanders stormier?
22:50:28 <andythenorth> there's no reason to delete the other one, just trimming any fat
22:50:34 <andythenorth> it doesn't convince me currently
22:51:07 <andythenorth> Horse has a lot of 'same engine, repainted', I was trying to break the pattern :P
22:51:14 <andythenorth> but it just doesn't look right in my game
22:52:57 <nielsm> andythenorth: legend for the background colours please :)
22:53:04 <nielsm> it takes a little while to figure out
22:53:10 <andythenorth> I'll add it to todo
22:53:39 <andythenorth> nielsm: that whole table is a bit oof
22:53:49 <andythenorth> eh, imagine if it could be in game :P
22:54:10 <andythenorth> supermop_work: played any horse around 2020?
22:55:25 <andythenorth> I don't really like the Chimera (class 70)
22:55:36 <andythenorth> seems like Cheddar Valley (59/66) should stick around for end game
22:55:36 <supermop_work> when leaving unpaused while going out or sleeping
22:57:30 <andythenorth> do I dare throw away sprites? :P
23:02:30 <andythenorth> do I dare throw away all gen 6 freight engines and wagons? o_O
23:02:36 <andythenorth> and cap freight to 90mph
23:02:52 <supermop_work> i mean, what is the point of this exercise
23:03:27 <supermop_work> british horse seems fine and fun, can probably just freeze it at this time
23:03:50 <andythenorth> I've just never played past about 2000 before
23:03:59 <andythenorth> but I have a game that just goes on
23:06:00 <andythenorth> oh it's pikka :)
23:06:50 <andythenorth> if I drop gen 6 Horse freight (keeping the pax)
23:06:58 <andythenorth> I can delete 60 wagons and 2 engines
23:07:29 <andythenorth> the entire progression of the wagons is 85mph > 95mph
23:07:41 <andythenorth> and a lot of sprites that look *very* similar to gen 5
23:08:13 <Pikka> that does seem a bit unneccessary
23:10:27 <andythenorth> OpenTTD should simulate the things that really matter to UK freight wagon operators
23:10:38 <andythenorth> like track access charge based on wear rates and track impact
23:10:55 <andythenorth> and wagon capacity-per length as shorter trains are favoured
23:11:03 <andythenorth> and braking distance
23:12:46 <Pikka> can't be a bad feature if it's realistic ;)
23:17:48 <andythenorth> ok maybe I don't delete 15% of the set tonight :D
23:21:28 <Samu> hard to follow the code on this
23:21:46 <andythenorth> eh I could increase capacity but not speed
23:24:44 <andythenorth> well that _might_ work
23:24:55 * andythenorth should sleep on it
23:25:17 <Samu> GroupStatistics::UpdateProfits, GroupStatistics::VehicleReachedProfitAge and GroupStatistics::CountVehicle
23:25:59 <Samu> that's how stats.profit_last_year is updated for displaying the sprite
23:33:16 <Samu> can't fix what's stored in GroupStatistics
23:33:24 <Samu> because it does have a use
23:49:31 <Samu> oh, this was a change from 2011
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