IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-01-07
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00:01:16 <Samu> regression main.nut doesn't have tests for group profit last year
00:01:30 <Samu> i guess it doesn't need a lifetime either?
00:02:44 <LordAro> Samu: regression tests miss a lot of things
00:02:56 <LordAro> you could add them ;)
00:06:04 <Samu> somebody explain GetGroupProfitLastYear? seems to be a cache
00:06:13 <Samu> do i need one for lifetimeprofit?
00:19:44 <LordAro> "I went on the internet last week, and I found this!"
00:19:49 <LordAro> PR_CONNECT_RESET_ERROR tho
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00:35:09 <Samu> dont forget the widget, i got to go sleep, no time today
00:35:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #7911: Codechange: Remove std::function from Pool iteration wrapper https://git.io/JejSc
01:02:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7911: Codechange: Remove std::function from Pool iteration wrapper https://git.io/JejKp
01:14:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7911: Codechange: Remove std::function from Pool iteration wrapper https://git.io/Jej9B
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01:17:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied https://git.io/Jej9g
01:17:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7914: Directory list window sort perf improvements https://git.io/Jej92
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01:38:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7915: Fix: Non-deterministic name sorting in industry directory window https://git.io/Jej9h
01:51:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements https://git.io/JejHO
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02:06:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7915: Fix: Non-deterministic name sorting in industry directory window https://git.io/JejHr
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04:06:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7869: The human-readable name of a cargo type can't be queried by AI/GS. https://git.io/Jed7d
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08:29:48 <andythenorth> pikka alright? ok? what's occuring?
08:32:23 <Pikka> adding hint texts to UKRS3... I guess at least mentioning what's electric and what's not might be a good idea :)
08:36:05 <andythenorth> Canadian NARS 3 Horse Renewal Set
08:37:26 <andythenorth> 6 generations of American trains eh
08:37:29 <andythenorth> that's quite a lot :|
08:38:42 <Pikka> how many different locos in a generation?
08:40:35 <andythenorth> most of them are railcars :P
08:41:07 <Pikka> not so many railcars ameristyle?
08:43:27 <andythenorth> Budd car, repeat
08:44:16 <andythenorth> UK Horse does strict speed increase progression every generation
08:44:24 <andythenorth> wondering if I could drop that for NARS Horse
08:44:37 <Pikka> 65mph all year every year?
08:45:36 <andythenorth> I'm thinking of 2 freight speed classes
08:45:53 <andythenorth> but not changing them often
08:46:16 <andythenorth> isn't max. speed the main progression point though?
08:46:28 <andythenorth> why use a new engine if not faster?
08:46:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JejNh
08:47:38 <Pikka> maybe. depends on the wagons I think...
08:47:58 <andythenorth> progression is 'interesting'
08:48:03 <andythenorth> the tank game I play has 10 levels
08:48:20 <andythenorth> gun and shell increase every level
08:48:26 <andythenorth> but so does armour
08:49:09 <Pikka> stats inflation, not great design :)
08:49:21 <andythenorth> it has limitations
08:49:30 <andythenorth> but by tier 10, there is a wide spread of tank types
08:49:51 <andythenorth> tier 1, everything is 20mph, 200hp, 20mm gun
08:49:57 <andythenorth> not much room for variety
08:50:20 <Pikka> I think there are some cues from "realism" that are useful, especially for trains. And I like previous generational vehicles fitting into a different tier in the next generation... eg a former express becoming a general purpose loco when a new faster (but more expensive) one becomes available
08:51:01 <andythenorth> I like that idea too
08:51:18 <andythenorth> I can't expoit it currently, because I aggressively remove vehicles
08:51:26 <andythenorth> to keep buy menu under control
08:52:15 <andythenorth> many thoughts :P
08:58:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements https://git.io/JejAk
08:59:36 <andythenorth> what I need for my current game is 6000hp electric
08:59:47 <andythenorth> what I have is 4000hp and 7500hp electrics :P
09:00:15 <andythenorth> if I increase the 4k, there's a gap low down, and progression seems to demand the 7.5k
09:03:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied https://git.io/JejAm
09:03:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7915: Fix: Non-deterministic name sorting in industry directory window https://git.io/Jej9h
09:11:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JejAu
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09:56:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JejxR
10:00:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7911: Codechange: Remove std::function from Pool iteration wrapper https://git.io/JejKp
10:05:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied https://git.io/Jejx6
10:07:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements https://git.io/JejxP
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10:34:08 <andythenorth> Pikka: what's your biggest electric engine? o_O
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12:05:25 <Pikka> andythenorth, class 91 / IC225
12:05:43 <andythenorth> 6400hp or similar?
12:06:13 <Pikka> the 92 is 90mph 5300hp 360kN, so considerably more TE but slower
12:07:01 <Pikka> and the 60 is 60mph 3100hp 474kN, so slower with more TE again
12:07:23 <Pikka> they're my 3 big endgame locos
12:07:34 <andythenorth> I have "gen 6 problems" :D
12:07:52 <andythenorth> the jump from 6000hp fake class 90
12:07:59 <andythenorth> to 7500hp fake Alstom prima
12:16:35 <Pikka> who needs more than 6000hp? ;)
12:28:09 <LordAro> 6000hp ought to be enough for anybody
12:47:47 <Pikka> 1750hp ought to be enough for anybody
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12:59:34 <andythenorth> so yeah, massively powerful engines don't add much for the way I play
12:59:54 <andythenorth> most trains are 5-6 tiles, big trains are 8-10 tiles
13:00:09 <andythenorth> Pikka: reduced cost for double-headed engines? Only one driver? :P
13:17:24 <Pikka> I'm sure NARS2 did something like that :P
13:23:41 <andythenorth> file it under BAD FEATURE :)
13:24:07 <andythenorth> representing that is tricky eh :P
13:24:19 <andythenorth> how about really stupid things?
13:24:26 <andythenorth> 'caboose reduces cost of using multiple engines' :P
13:24:29 <andythenorth> modifier vehicles
13:27:36 <andythenorth> I have 2 I think
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13:54:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7910: Fix #7908, b524f1a: "Show the NewGRF name in the build vehicle window… https://git.io/JveJq
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14:16:01 <Samu> there is a discrepancy in values for group last year profit in gui and group last year profit in noai
14:17:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7916: Fix 196d5868: Always apply filter on town directory rebuild https://git.io/JveJA
14:21:36 <Samu> profit last year in gui doesn't account for VEHICLE_PROFIT_MIN_AGE
14:21:44 <Samu> profit last year in noai does
14:21:54 <Samu> which one is the correct way?
14:26:28 <Samu> there is so much work around VEHICLE_PROFIT_MIN_AGE and then the gui simply disregards it, strange
14:28:15 <Samu> ah, i see, not totally, it's being regarded towards displaying a red, green or yellow sprite
14:59:57 <Samu> it's not the same value as shown in gui, can I fix it?
15:00:49 <Samu> anyone familiar with the code? peter1138
15:04:21 <andythenorth> high horsepower engines
15:04:28 <andythenorth> hard to use in my game
15:09:29 <Pikka> most people play the game thinking trains need to hit maximum speed before they're clear of the platform
15:09:37 <Pikka> and never drop below that speed
15:09:44 <Pikka> and those people are playing the game wrong :P
15:10:54 <Samu> Pikka, do you use ScriptGroup::GetProfitLastYear(GroupID group_id) in your ai
15:11:19 <Pikka> doesn't sound familiar Samu, why?
15:11:30 <Samu> AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear
15:11:42 <Samu> i think it's bugged, or at least misleading
15:11:58 <Pikka> I check the profit of individual vehicles but never of a group, I don't think
15:12:26 <Samu> it only accounts vehicles above VEHICLE_PROFIT_MIN_AGE
15:12:43 <Samu> but in the gui, it accounts for all vehicles
15:14:04 <Samu> in gui it's being used for 2 things, actually
15:14:26 <Samu> to display Profit Last Year and to display that red/green/yellow/na sprite
15:15:45 <Samu> the coloured sprite only accounts for VEHICLE_PROFIT_MIN_AGE, that seems fine imo
15:16:00 <Samu> the displaying of the actual vaulue doesn't account for min age
15:16:34 <Samu> I think im gonna make a PR anyway
15:18:58 <Samu> I need devs to say anything about the issue! :( I feel alone
15:19:51 <Samu> if I were to use this feature on my AI, what would I expect it to give me
15:20:10 <Pikka> whatever the API says it returns? :)
15:20:28 <Pikka> I'm not sure I see much of a use for it tbh
15:21:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7916: Fix 196d5868: Always apply filter on town directory rebuild https://git.io/JveTu
15:21:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7916: Fix 196d5868: Always apply filter on town directory rebuild https://git.io/JveJA
15:21:56 <Samu> GetProfitThisYear gets the profit of all vehicles regardless of their age
15:29:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: for 5 generations of Horse, the train won't hit max speed that fast :P
15:29:25 <andythenorth> although the low speed freight trains don't take long to hit 45mph :)
15:30:19 <andythenorth> highest HP electric was 8500hp, I can't find many places to use it :)
15:30:43 <andythenorth> "NUTS is also available"
15:31:34 <Samu> Fix e04ca90: Widget missed squirrel export
15:31:42 <Samu> is this good commit message?
15:34:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7917: Fix e04ca90: Widget missed squirrel export https://git.io/JveTh
15:38:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7917: Fix e04ca90: Widget missed squirrel export https://git.io/JvekT
15:39:03 <LordAro> Samu: more or less fine
15:44:39 <FLHerne> Pikka: Part of the problem is that we don't have distant signals :P
15:45:28 <FLHerne> So if there's any speed differential the following train stops dead
15:45:39 <FLHerne> And if that takes time to get up to speed, it all cascades
15:45:53 <FLHerne> (of course I do it anyway)
15:46:54 <andythenorth> I over-power trains for that exact reason
15:47:23 <andythenorth> they'll go up the ruling grade at reasonable speed for much lower hp, but then they get a signal check and have to start from 0
15:47:30 <andythenorth> the faster they clear the junction, the better
15:47:43 * andythenorth introduces andythenorth to bridges and tunnels
15:53:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7918: Fix 3c047b1: AIGroup.GetProfitLastYear could get values different than those displayed in gui https://git.io/Jvek6
16:04:43 <Samu> my not-really mine lifetime profit patch is nearly ready for PR, except that gui issue
16:07:09 <andythenorth> hmm rebalanced UK Horse electric engines
16:07:11 <andythenorth> mostly LESS power
16:07:18 <andythenorth> didn't have to add any more for 'balance' :D
16:07:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7917: Fix e04ca90: Widget missed squirrel export https://git.io/JveTh
16:07:43 <andythenorth> Pikka: so very heavy (tare weight) wagons in NARS Horse, to force high power engines? o_O
16:08:48 <Pikka> dunno.. I mean, long trains are good. heavy wagons could make shorter trains.
16:11:50 <andythenorth> I think I like short trains for USA
16:12:09 <andythenorth> the Tropic roster I want to do would be narrow gauge, low capacity, long trains, slow
16:12:14 <andythenorth> all Garratts obvs
16:13:19 <andythenorth> maybe...a Deltic
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16:48:30 <Samu> left arrow, the height is too hight, right arrow, there's some extra line there
16:49:27 <Samu> problem is somewhere in group_gui.cpp, just not sure how to fix it
16:49:48 <nielsm> Samu: it's hard or impossible to fix that
16:50:06 <nielsm> the same weirdness happens with my "efficiency" patch and the additional stats it adds
16:50:23 <nielsm> I have no idea how it calculates those heights
16:51:51 <nielsm> but the resizing logic in the GUI is very obscure
16:56:21 <Samu> need to remove 2 strings from every language and then it's finished :o
16:59:53 <michi_cc> Samu: The command line utility to make it unboring is called sed
17:02:14 <michi_cc> sed -i '/STR_NAME_HERE/d' *.txt (or something like that).
17:06:56 <Samu> ok, the string name is...
17:07:21 <Samu> STR_VEHICLE_INFO_PROFIT_THIS_YEAR_LAST_YEAR
17:07:30 <Samu> STR_VEHICLE_LIST_PROFIT_THIS_YEAR_LAST_YEAR
17:09:47 <Samu> english.txt is also there hmm
17:09:57 <Samu> well, it's removed from it, so it's fine
17:11:34 <Samu> oh nos, it removed STR_VEHICLE_LIST_PROFIT_THIS_YEAR_LAST_YEAR_LIFETIME
17:11:35 <nielsm> nooooooo my plan to make raised/lowered polygons for GUI were foiled
17:12:11 <nielsm> by clockwise/counter-clockwise polygons getting opposite shading
17:12:49 <nielsm> it needs not just angle of the line, but also which side of the line is interior/exterior
17:13:25 <nielsm> and that one's more difficult
17:13:45 <nielsm> (it would also all break down with self-intersecting polygons)
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17:14:45 <nielsm> alternative would be to merge the frame painting with the polygon filling
17:15:08 <nielsm> would then need to annotate each line segment with its relative angle anyway
17:15:33 <nielsm> (which would also allow for selecting between odd/even or positive fill rule)
17:16:07 <Samu> it also happens to be a lonely line
17:16:23 <Samu> now i removed the line and it left a 2 paragraph interval :( just my luck
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18:02:53 <nielsm> okay this polygon stuff is getting too hard, I'm done!
18:03:42 <Samu> i have 3 languages complaining about something I didn't do
18:03:46 <Samu> 6>D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\src\lang\french.txt(1316): warning : STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHOW_NEWGRF_NAME: Param idx #0 '<empty>' doesn't match with template command 'STRING2' (warning)
18:03:53 <Samu> french, finnish and korean
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18:12:05 <LordAro> Samu: eints should remove them this evening
18:18:04 <LordAro> that's VS falling over
18:20:41 <Samu> i cant find the whole program optimization in release build they talk about
18:20:54 <LordAro> it's unlikely to be the same issue
18:21:05 <LordAro> *exactly the same issue
18:21:09 <LordAro> did you make any changes recently?
18:21:18 <LordAro> or, just try building again
18:23:59 <nielsm> there seems to be some general problems with the VC2019 linker failing in strange ways
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18:24:34 <nielsm> it's probably a symptom of the same thing that also causes you to get debug builds where the debugger can't find any symbols so you can't get breakpoints working
18:24:53 <nielsm> or that one time I had a build that crashed in an insane way, and a complete rebuild just solved it
18:25:29 <nielsm> or that "object was built without debug symbols" thing it occasionally loves to spew in the build output
18:27:10 <Samu> i also get tons of those
18:27:41 <Samu> i found the "Whole Program Optimization" it's hidden somewhere in openttd properties
18:28:27 <nielsm> yes it's a think you only want enabled for release builds
18:28:41 <nielsm> it makes compile take 3x as long, or something like that
18:28:59 <LordAro> presumably LTO of some sort?
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19:00:23 <nielsm> should probably begin focusing on bugs instead of features so a beta3 or rc1 can be made
19:11:14 <Samu> how do I credit authors?
19:11:46 <nielsm> just an extra line in the commit message
19:12:11 <nielsm> actually you can add the --author argument to git commit
19:12:35 <nielsm> git commit --author "Foo Barsion <foo@example.com>"
19:13:56 <LordAro> you can only have 1 author anyway
19:15:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #137: Fix version detection and top-left banner https://git.io/JveOZ
19:16:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #137: Fix version detection and top-left banner https://git.io/JveOC
19:19:33 <Samu> there is a gui issue i mentioned earlier, and getprofitlastyear being different than the 2 others
19:19:41 <Samu> which i made a pr of too
19:19:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #137: Fix version detection and top-left banner https://git.io/JveOC
19:19:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #137: Fix version detection and top-left banner https://git.io/JveOZ
19:19:59 <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro :) I found one more random commit to add :P
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19:37:14 <Samu> im not too convinced of JGR - Reset overall lifetime profit to 0 when renewing vehicle.
19:41:30 <Samu> what should happen to lifetime profit when a vehicle is renewed?
19:42:43 <glx> if it's renewed, lifetime profit is reset
19:44:29 <Samu> ah, it's reset, it's kinda strange how the other 2 aren't
19:44:37 <Samu> working correctly, but confusing at first
19:45:49 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
20:50:30 <Samu> why can't GS's use GSGroup?
21:01:55 <nielsm> well it's declared as @api ai
21:02:20 <nielsm> but you're right, there's no reason a GS should not be able to look at groups
21:04:04 <Samu> nor do I know what it's for
21:04:13 <nielsm> because we don't release with gotjin
21:04:22 <andythenorth> spurious vehicle stat calculations? o_O
21:04:23 <nielsm> with github's distribution
21:06:49 <andythenorth> I've reset some Horse stats based on hp/speed
21:07:02 <andythenorth> which is a useful analogue for relative performance
21:07:23 <Samu> have you ever had a GS enter an AI company and manage everything of that company?
21:07:55 <glx> it doesn't need to enter the company
21:08:06 <glx> GS can do everything, it's god
21:19:17 <andythenorth> 'train compare' tool? o_O
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23:14:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7913: Codechange: [Linkgraph] Skip MCF source node Dijkstra when all demand satisfied https://git.io/Jej9g
23:15:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7914: Town, station and industry directory window sorting performance improvements https://git.io/Jej92
23:31:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/Jvech
23:53:10 <supermop_work> how's it going down there?
23:58:26 <supermop_work> not in a hot war yet
23:58:36 <supermop_work> so about as good as i could hope for
23:59:40 <Pikka> always a good start to the day
23:59:52 <supermop_work> up here it is beer time
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