IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-12-25
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00:00:46 <Samu> but the tiles have slight almost unnoticeable slopes
00:01:24 <LordAro> is that because it's in the future?
00:02:03 <frosch123> or because it is on aws?
00:02:27 <LordAro> i don't think TB had done that yet
00:03:54 <frosch123> staging at least figured out there's a beta2
00:05:07 <LordAro> hmm, navigation bar has broken for me
00:07:10 <LordAro> TrueBrain: can you tell where the new post has got to?
00:10:09 <glx> prod also shows the beta2, just not the pos
00:12:59 <Samu> same output now, and with the fix applied
00:13:41 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no clue what you have done with the post :p
00:14:01 <TrueBrain> New docker clearly is deployed :p
00:14:31 <TrueBrain> Someone should build the docker manually and look into it :)
00:18:51 <TrueBrain> If I would to guess, is because you dated it in the futue
00:19:20 <TrueBrain> Good chance Jekyll because of that didn't generate it (yet)
00:20:02 <TrueBrain> So I would guess a rebuild should fix it
00:20:16 <TrueBrain> On mobile, so I cannot do it
00:23:20 <frosch123> hmm, takes some time to collect all those downloads
00:23:47 <glx> needs to fix ruby first it seems (for me)
00:24:32 <TrueBrain> Those downloads will be faster af my PR :D
00:25:16 <frosch123> it even added 2 PRs... did not know about that
00:25:41 <TrueBrain> Yeah .. that works, but Azure Pipelines was not playing nice
00:26:01 <TrueBrain> GitHub Actions could revive that again
00:27:29 <frosch123> jekyll 3.8.5 | Error: No such file or directory @ rb_sysopen - /source/static/js/ua-parser.js
00:27:40 <TrueBrain> You forgot to update the submodules
00:28:48 <TrueBrain> I had that so many times during testing :D
00:29:46 <glx> I'm in a ruby dependency hell I think
00:30:18 <TrueBrain> glx: did you pull the latest base image?
00:30:42 <TrueBrain> docker build --pull or something?
00:31:05 <glx> I'm on windows, so I usually just run jekyll
00:31:27 <TrueBrain> Pretty sure it was the future date on the post
00:31:44 <TrueBrain> Just retrigger the build on Azure Pipelines
00:32:45 <glx> but won't help if it's UTC ;)
00:33:15 <TrueBrain> 30 more minutes to wait :D
00:33:44 <FLHerne> (trudging through mud at 11pm because the cyclepath is flooded is unfun)
00:34:23 <TrueBrain> Seems it is an options in Jekyll
00:34:30 <TrueBrain> To support future posts
00:35:08 <frosch123> hmm... where is actually the data in the contaienr
00:35:27 <TrueBrain> In default nginx folder
00:35:47 <TrueBrain> Guessing: /var/www/html
00:36:05 <frosch123> yeah, but there is no /var/www
00:36:13 <TrueBrain> Yeah, flag is called 'future'
00:37:29 <glx> oh I know why it fails, I reset --hard the local changes required
00:37:37 <frosch123> yeah, so there is no news/2019/12 folder
00:37:57 <TrueBrain> In the config, set future to true
00:37:57 <frosch123> so you need to wait another 30 minutes :)
00:42:25 <glx> lucky I had a stash somewhere
00:44:07 <frosch123> yep, "future" worked
00:44:25 <TrueBrain> PR it and let's fix it before 0000 :D
00:48:41 <TrueBrain> Or we can agree to not predate posts, ofc :p
00:49:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 opened pull request #119: Change: Publish also news post from the future to simplify posting. https://git.io/Jebff
00:51:47 <TrueBrain> Lgtm; sadly, no yubikey at hand to approve :p
00:52:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 approved pull request #119: Change: Publish also news post from the future to simplify posting. https://git.io/JebfT
00:53:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 merged pull request #119: Change: Publish also news post from the future to simplify posting. https://git.io/Jebff
00:54:15 <frosch123> do we wait for staging? or someone wants to tag?
00:54:42 <glx> or I can retrigger current tag in ~5 minutes
00:54:53 <TrueBrain> Just tag a new version :)
00:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> what are we breaking today?
00:57:33 <frosch123> i actually don't know where to make a tag on gh
00:58:41 <TrueBrain> Input tag, select master, publish
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00:59:37 <frosch123> yeah, "duplicate tag" :p
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01:00:42 <TrueBrain> Staging is already correct
01:00:55 <TrueBrain> Dev files look weird on mobile
01:01:07 <TrueBrain> List bullet is there
01:02:19 <TrueBrain> Does look so much better to have them separate
01:02:51 <frosch123> yes, the layout is different also on non-mobile
01:02:57 <frosch123> bullets vs no-bullets
01:04:44 <TrueBrain> Dev files have bullet, binaries do not
01:05:40 <TrueBrain> LordAro: we found your post and frosch/glx brought it to life :p gratz on new beta :)
01:06:24 <glx> (well a retrigger would have worked too, but now we are future proof ;) )
01:13:39 <frosch123> hmm, 888 followers, 222 too much
01:14:35 <frosch123> yay, found the logout button
01:14:47 <frosch123> was hidden under "more"
01:15:17 <glx> the useful tweets are hidden behind promoted
01:18:04 <frosch123> it also gets directly retweeted/responeded by scam bots :)
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01:20:42 <glx> byt yeah the immediate reply is pure garbage
02:40:12 <tokai|noir> frosch123: I'm not a scan bot! :)
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10:08:25 <andythenorth> thanks LordAro :)
10:15:00 <Pikka> merry christmas and custard o/
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10:58:45 <peter1138> When you wait for the next free game on the Epic store... and you already have it ;(
11:15:36 <Wolf01> <peter1138> When you wait for the next free game on the Epic store... and you already have it ;( <- that's the reason I won't give even a 0.01€ to epic, but I get all the free games
11:49:58 <TrueBrain> Haha, epic xmas present Wolf01 :)
11:58:26 <andythenorth> child-based feedback
12:00:35 <peter1138> Yeah, I'll happily pick up the freebies :-)
12:01:34 * peter1138 ponders moving his server downstairs, where the UPS is.
12:01:48 <Wolf01> Should I open that big cardboard box sitting in an angle of the living room?
12:01:59 <peter1138> Plan was to have the UPS upstairs and do PoE for the modem & router, but I haven't got a PoE switch yet.
12:02:17 <peter1138> Seems silly to NOT have the server on the UPS, heh.
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12:06:47 <snail_UES_> merry Xmas everyone
12:07:40 <peter1138> What fun things can I do with two routers at home. I'm guessing... nothing really :p
12:20:28 <Samu> I had an idea for snowline, display it in red if the map won't generate snow
12:20:40 <Samu> display it in black if it does
12:21:39 <Wolf01> <peter1138> Plan was to have the UPS upstairs and do PoE for the modem & router, but I haven't got a PoE switch yet. <- I found having a UPS protected router is 90% useless now that I have the new contract, the chances that power goes off only on my house are little, and when it goes off on the town internet doesn't work anyway
12:25:02 <peter1138> I have the modem router on it because I needed to test with the house power off :-)
12:25:25 <peter1138> Just haven't moved it yet. Just server would be more useful, but if I can move things around to have it all on UPS then that's better.
12:25:52 <peter1138> Cos my ISP is nice I have a /29 at home ;p
12:45:45 <Samu> STR_MAPGEN_SNOW_LINE_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Control at what height snow starts in sub-arctic landscape. Snow also affects industry generation and town growth requirements. A value displayed in red means some of the requirements are not met
12:45:56 <Samu> is this good explanation/english?
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13:08:39 <Samu> this doesn't seem valid for heightmaps
13:08:59 <Samu> better disable tooltip and colors there
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14:08:26 <andythenorth> how many types of tank wagon are too many? :P
14:08:42 <andythenorth> localised feedback is that changing the colour per cargo is silly
14:08:51 <andythenorth> and all the colours should just be in the buy menu
14:18:14 <andythenorth> and 2CC doesn't count, so 5
14:18:46 <frosch123> you can reduce the number of items in the purchase list: attaching a blue and a yellow wagon results in two green wagons
14:19:28 <andythenorth> that would be quite something
14:19:37 <frosch123> anyway, V law mandates that different sprites for different cargos is a good thing
14:19:50 <andythenorth> 9 year old disagrees :P
14:20:05 <andythenorth> he wants the one he sees in the menu, with option to toggle company colour on flip :P
14:20:29 <andythenorth> you don't want to know what I seriously considered doing, but I'll tell you anyway :)
14:20:47 <andythenorth> starting from front of consist, read depot-flip bit as a bitmask
14:21:08 <andythenorth> encoding multiple liveries for all vehicles :P
14:21:38 <andythenorth> that's how we used to configure electronics
14:22:32 <andythenorth> it was something like 'default font is monospaced if dip switch 1 is set' etc
14:22:37 <andythenorth> that sort of thing
14:25:06 <frosch123> as kid i was very confused why there was a setting for CRLF vs LF
14:29:46 <andythenorth> is that an Epson 400 or something?
14:29:51 <andythenorth> or I see in the url
14:30:20 <frosch123> well, i guess it also fit similar us formats
14:31:10 <frosch123> the tractor for paper rolls was detachable
14:32:40 <andythenorth> it had an alternative lid
14:41:58 <andythenorth> waiting for it to build more trains pikka :)
14:44:37 <andythenorth> it's really quite pleasing
14:51:29 <andythenorth> nice of it to build brake vans on pax trains :)
14:53:09 <Pikka> I bet that's actually a 'cargo' train serving an industry (hotel maybe?)
14:53:36 <Pikka> I'd thought that it would build those to passenger train rules now but I admit I never actually tested it
14:53:47 <andythenorth> it is serving a hotel
14:53:58 <andythenorth> the brakevan is there in case of moose
14:54:16 <Pikka> moose are only allowed to ride in the brakevan?
14:55:29 <andythenorth> and only when bear are predicted
14:55:31 <andythenorth> loading for bear
14:56:27 <Pikka> huh. it should never be building brakevans on passenger trains now. in fact, it should always be building a mailvan instead. and it shouldn't be mixing passenger coach types. this was definitely a train build by v22?
14:57:43 <andythenorth> but but I downloaded the bananas v22
15:01:21 <Pikka> yep, there's an empty file required there that I ended up not using, it must have been efficiencied out somewhere in the bananas process
15:08:18 <andythenorth> I had to restart openttd
15:08:23 <andythenorth> it seems to cache previous AI version
15:10:37 <LordAro> i think there's an issue about that
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15:19:06 <andythenorth> awesome colour choices
15:19:27 <andythenorth> it makes more interesting engine choices now
15:20:06 <Pikka> yep. I made the biases stronger and more different between companies. and it can build electric now too of course ;)
15:20:15 <andythenorth> is it random that it favours tank cars for milk?
15:20:23 <andythenorth> previously it mixed a lot of wagons
15:21:55 <Pikka> it will only do random wagons for piece goods. and even then it will stick to one best wagon if nothing else is as fast or high capacity
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15:29:34 <andythenorth> oh the red one scrapped it's train :)
15:36:30 <Pikka> how's the track building? slightly less entertaining passing places? :P
15:38:37 <andythenorth> yup reduced lolz
15:49:31 <frosch123> looks like there went a lot of effort into making the ai name stuff :)
15:55:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] james5922 commented on issue #6566: Very long loading of the maximum "zoom out" level in 4K resolution https://git.io/fxABA
15:55:09 <andythenorth> pikka does it do sue and sweep as well as sooty?
15:56:03 <Pikka> is it a bug if it doesn't?
15:56:49 <Pikka> it does have thomas, but only for blue companies. ;)
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16:10:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro reopened issue #6566: Very long loading of the maximum "zoom out" level in 4K resolution https://git.io/fxABA
16:10:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6566: Very long loading of the maximum "zoom out" level in 4K resolution https://git.io/fxABA
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16:55:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #6566: Very long loading of the maximum "zoom out" level in 4K resolution https://git.io/fxABA
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17:03:59 <Pikka> bedtime, merry christmas
17:04:22 <Pikka> andythenorth, let me know if AI does anything cool, lolz or stupid :)
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17:40:07 <tuxmax> hi i'm new user of openttd who can tell me if you see my game
17:42:17 <frosch123> check servers.openttd.org
17:46:35 <nielsm> eat all the food all the time, no need to distinguish between breakfast/lunch/dinner/anything else in-between
18:13:30 <nielsm> okay measuring newgrf performance in microseconds is not entirely useless in release builds, it still does get a number of non-zero values
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19:23:47 * andythenorth removes bad features
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19:45:49 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
20:24:18 <nielsm> rediscovered my video scaling branch, I wonder if I should PR it?
20:24:45 <nielsm> even if it just remains a secret feature on only the win32 video driver
20:32:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7876: Feature: [Win32] Full window/display scaling https://git.io/Jebcu
20:32:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7876: Feature: [Win32] Full window/display scaling https://git.io/Jebcu
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21:08:38 <andythenorth> I played warcraft again
21:09:23 <frosch> starcraft was significant progress
21:15:29 <nielsm> okay let's start over with the GS perfrating branch, my previous attempt didn't get very far but I think the initial work was from the wrong end
21:15:34 <nielsm> (or grasping too many ends at once)
21:30:37 <Samu> the currently selected base graphics set is missing 5 sprites
21:31:58 <Samu> there's no newer than 0.5.5 on online content
21:39:13 <LordAro> Samu: yes, there needs to be a 0.5.6 before 1.10.0
21:42:18 <nielsm> it's NRT that has new sprites required, right?
21:43:37 <peter1138> Christmas pudding time :D
21:44:06 <Samu> the tooltip explanation is a bit off
21:46:03 <Samu> it shows red if it can't place snow, farms or forests
21:46:23 <nielsm> I won't help you because I think you're doing the wrong thing to attempt to solve that
21:46:27 <nielsm> completely wrong approach
21:48:38 <Samu> so red text is a bad idea :(
21:50:21 <nielsm> it's unusual but the correct thing to do IMO is to change the terrain generation rules such that sub-arctic and sub-tropic landscapes cannot be configured to generate "invalid" maps
21:50:41 <nielsm> and I don't mean changing the GUI, I mean changing the terrain generator code
21:53:25 <andythenorth> can 'invalid' be determined?
21:54:04 <frosch> there is already a popup after mapgen when ottd could not place some industry types
21:54:16 <frosch> but it takes a the mapgen to run :)
21:54:26 <frosch> i favour the factorio solution
21:54:52 <frosch> there should be a mapgen preview which shows the most basic things, like height, water, maybe snow
21:55:01 <andythenorth> strikes me that we can't adapt mapgen to weird newgrf requirements
21:55:06 <frosch> oh, and possibly "too steep slopes"
21:55:38 <nielsm> yeah I mean, if you select a sub-arctic map it should always generate a map with at least 33% above the snow line height, and if you select a sub-tropic map it should always generate a map with around 50% rainforest-mountains
21:55:56 <frosch> maps are incredibly ugly when the mapgen generates slopes too steep for the slope model in ottd, so there are like 20 tile long stretches of just 45° uphill
21:59:29 <Samu> there's in tgp.cpp a check for water level, and it adjusts the height of the world in order to get to a certain % of water
21:59:48 <Samu> maybe something similar for slowline could be created
22:00:25 <Samu> but I'm far from understanding tgp
22:04:06 <nielsm> TTD generates those maps always as a half/half split of high/low land
22:04:16 <nielsm> north/south or east/west split
22:04:42 <nielsm> so north or east is mountaneous and south or west is lower land
22:05:23 <nielsm> I think the good approach for TGP would be to create a low-resolution map of areas designated to be mountains and areas designated to be low
22:05:40 <nielsm> and filter the terrain by that or whatever
22:05:59 <nielsm> I think the original terrain gen still does what TTD did?
22:06:15 <peter1138> Wouldn't be too hard to emulate ;p
22:07:14 <nielsm> but the hard half/half split is kind of dumb with huge maps, the distance to high or low land from the opposite corner will be too large
22:07:24 <nielsm> hence having splotches of everything around
22:07:41 <nielsm> also, I think sub-arctic having fjords would be nice, but that's something else :)
22:09:21 <Samu> i think arctic already looks good in terragenesis, main issue is basically snow line
22:10:16 <Samu> and the very flat terrain type just shouldn't exist
22:11:11 * andythenorth wondered about writing a bitmap heightmap generator in python :P
22:11:16 <andythenorth> it would be hideous though
22:11:46 <nielsm> rather I think the terrain type setting for sub-arctic and sub-tropic should either be disabled (as it is in original mapgen), or should only be used for the "low" areas of the map
22:11:47 <andythenorth> I've read quite a bit about terrain generation techniques, but they're all aimed at realism
22:12:09 <andythenorth> I want pseudo-realism, optimised for gameplay
22:12:31 <nielsm> so if you select "very flat", you get a map of very flat areas together with mountaneous areas
22:12:46 <nielsm> if you select mountaneous terrain type, everything is mountains
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22:13:27 <andythenorth> I don't really understand how to get good maps from TGP
22:14:13 <andythenorth> they're not bad though
22:27:27 <Samu> for the snowline, i have a rough idea: instead of being the user to submit a value, it's automatically determined
22:28:31 <Samu> terragenesis makes the map, while at the same time it takes note of the highest tile it generated
22:28:47 <Samu> then sets the snowline at maybe half of that value
22:36:49 <nielsm> might work, except count the number of tiles with each height value, and select a value such that at least 1/3 of the total tiles are above the snow line
22:37:57 <peter1138> TGP basically sucks.
22:51:49 <Samu> maybe won't count water tiles
23:18:17 <nielsm> (boolean flag, volume, weight, and those not immediately visible: thousands and millions of pounds, to get around 32 bit limits, and inverted requirements implemented as a general approach to how loan has worked as a special case)
23:48:23 <Samu> while (tile_count < _height_map.size_x * _height_map.size_y * 2 / 3 && cur_height <= highest_height) {
23:49:05 <Samu> 2/3 of the map below snowline
23:50:12 <nielsm> I can't figure out what you're trying to do with that loop, but it looks wrong
23:51:50 <nielsm> std::vector<uint> tilecount_heights; tilecount_heights.resize(mapgen_map_height); for (all tiles) tilecount_height[tile height] += 1;
23:51:54 <Samu> resulting cur_height becomes snowline
23:54:51 <nielsm> much more complex than needed
23:55:22 <nielsm> just build a histogram over height levels
23:55:50 <nielsm> calculate how many tiles minimum need to be snow, then go from the max height level in the histogram and sum "downwards" until you pass the required number of snow tiles, then you have your snow line level
23:58:18 <Samu> there's already a histogram somewhere there
23:58:23 <nielsm> or, frequency distribution table, rather than histogram (histogram is a graphical representation of a frequency distribution)
continue to next day ⏵
