IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-12-09
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08:02:22 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #67: Minor changes in regression Makefile and .gitignore https://git.io/Je1N2
08:04:46 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #72: Change: increase size of permanent storage to 256 https://git.io/JeScm
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08:26:02 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #73: Change: add ANIM_TRIGGER_APT_AIRPLANE_LANDS https://git.io/JeSC8
08:33:40 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on pull request #35: Fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/JeSwv
08:34:51 * andythenorth wonders about an nml release soon :)
08:41:38 <andythenorth> it's quite a nice detective game :)
08:43:14 <planetmaker> but I didn't yet see the latest update
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11:45:40 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #35: Fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/JeS6W
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13:00:54 <Flygon> LordAro: We clearly snorted the crushed Blue+Red Pill Dust again.
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14:16:10 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JePq0
14:17:18 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #71: Add: nmlc option to force regeneration of parser tables https://git.io/Jeyxo
14:43:20 <peter1138> andythenorth, I have lunched!
14:43:24 <peter1138> It was... er... salad!
14:43:49 <peter1138> This time with M&S sweet potato salad, and artichokes in oil. Variety.
14:43:59 <planetmaker> There we have the salad... da haben wir den Salat :P
15:03:46 <andythenorth> more lunch needed
15:15:36 <peter1138> I supplemented lunch with a mini Soreen.
15:30:46 <milek7_> andythenorth: there is emscripten/wasm port already
15:31:08 <andythenorth> oh emscripten is wasm? I didn't know that :)
15:31:20 <andythenorth> I thought the web openttd was running in a js runtime
15:31:33 <milek7_> it can compile to asm.js or wasm
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15:32:27 <andythenorth> it really does work quite milek7_
15:33:38 <milek7_> blitter performance is poor though
15:33:40 <andythenorth> the fps is higher on wasm than the mac native client
15:35:11 <andythenorth> so when I download a newgrf in the wasm edition, where is that file going?
15:35:29 <andythenorth> is there a virtual filesystem in wasm?
16:26:02 <Corns[m]> Hi can I ask what's the sentiment behind rejecting patches like copy paste patch into the main client?
16:29:43 <planetmaker> you can ask :) The answer is about the same as it was before: there is trouble in actually having the patch do what it is supposed to do
16:30:35 <planetmaker> things can fail between test and actual building due to local authorities. The ground might be differently-structured and the placement cannot be done entirely - and there is no way to actually undo the pasting
16:30:42 <planetmaker> even when it only half-succeeded
16:30:53 <planetmaker> so it will be a constant source of bug reports
16:32:17 <planetmaker> codewise it's currently only possible to check the execution of one single action in advance. c&p needs a whole sequence of that.
16:32:57 <nielsm> a lot of things would become possible if we had a way to checkpoint the entire world and roll back
16:33:20 <planetmaker> yep. But that basically means to have the entire map in memory twice
16:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be easier if the map was divided into chunks, like 16x16 areas
16:38:06 <andythenorth> how does roll back work in multiplayer?
16:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> then you only have to duplicate the parts that will be affected
16:38:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: shard the map, endless worlds :P
16:39:08 <planetmaker> @Eddi|zuHause, learn from factorio? ;)
16:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't know what factorio does
16:39:45 <planetmaker> for many purposes the world is divided into just that: chunks of certain size
16:39:55 <planetmaker> fixed... dunno... 40x40 or so
16:40:02 <planetmaker> or 32x32... .whatever
16:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: presumably they unload chunks that are far away/otherwise deemed "passive"?
16:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> .. which is something we don't really want
16:40:34 <planetmaker> used for updating, for simplifying path finding... and they don't even have generated those which are not visible
16:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm pretty sure they've copied that from minecraft
16:41:03 <planetmaker> visible as in were never discovered. There's a fog-of-war
16:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's also a feature we don't really need. however for non-surface segments and stuff, having only the areas that the player actually ever built in stored would be possible
16:43:15 <planetmaker> and then you remove the one dam which will flood the whole map the player never touched :)
16:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i mean flexible bridges/tunnels
16:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the surface map would still be fully generated as it is now, only the storage will change
16:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> we'd have to do away with Void-tiles, probably
16:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it would not be practical
16:45:55 <nielsm> if the map is stored in chunks you can emulate CoW paging
16:47:23 <planetmaker> impossible to google what game is meant with CoW... cow
16:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to add some intermediate steps to decode map coordinates anyway, so checking for map borders could be in there
16:47:59 <Eddi|zuHause> might potentially make things like flood-filling slower than currently
16:48:31 <planetmaker> that's not sth which happens often
16:50:22 <peter1138> Copy & paste patch... did anyone actually submit it as a PR? :p
16:54:32 <andythenorth> peter1138: I can't find a PR, issue, or imported flyspray issue for it
16:54:52 <andythenorth> there's probably several C+P patches gone to die in forums dev section, but eh
16:55:03 <andythenorth> also, is it still lunch?
16:59:10 <peter1138> If you're still eating lunch, yes.
17:01:16 <andythenorth> so lunch runs from about 9.30am until about 4.45pm?
17:01:23 <andythenorth> then it's tea or dinner?
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17:30:50 <asymptotically> hi friends. if i want a factory to produce goods, do i need to deliver livestock, grain, AND steel, or can i just deliver steel?
17:34:03 <nielsm> asymptotically: just one of them is enough
17:34:33 <asymptotically> great. thank you :)
17:35:15 <nielsm> there are some NewGRF industry replacement sets that have industries which need all of the inputs to produce anything, if you want a more advanced game
17:40:45 <asymptotically> i'll have to look into that later. thanks again
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19:37:26 <andythenorth> nielsm how is your headspace? Do you want to play the meta-game that frosch123 has made? :)
19:37:40 <andythenorth> it's like a detective puzzle :)
19:38:45 <nielsm> need some food first, at the very least
19:56:44 <glx> hmm more industry input/output in 1.9 ?
19:59:02 <frosch123> yes, it is that old. november 2018
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20:09:14 <Wolf01> Yeah, so fast when you need it, so slow when you wish it
20:10:42 <nielsm> and I never got my Winter Wonderland set properly off the ground for this december either
20:10:55 <nielsm> should have maybe tried to actually recruit someone to art
20:12:00 <andythenorth> there's always next year
20:12:50 <nielsm> actually I don't think anyone have released anything depending on the new industry action0 properties at all
20:13:01 <andythenorth> I have unreleased FIRS
20:13:08 <andythenorth> it's available in the repo, but no binaries
20:13:54 <frosch123> someone was horsing all year
20:14:55 <andythenorth> it was something like 1 train per day
20:16:14 <frosch123> yes, thought 50/50 wrt. add/delete
20:16:40 <andythenorth> I wasn't very successful at deleting Horse
20:16:53 <andythenorth> but...still time left to do that :)
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20:24:37 <frosch123> glx: do you know how msvc handles multi-byte integral constants like 'ABCD'? cppreference says that msvc differs from the other compilers, but ottd looks like it relies on a specific behaviour
20:25:57 <frosch123> hmm, i could use godbolt
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20:28:40 <frosch123> ok, on godbolt all 3 major compilers agree
20:29:01 <frosch123> so we can continue to rely on implementation-defined behaviour :p
20:31:53 <milek7_> andythenorth: yes, there's in-memory emulation of filesystem in emscripten
20:32:37 <milek7_> and it can be serialized to persistent browser indexeddb (currently script does it for save/ directory)
20:33:59 <andythenorth> that's really quite advanced eh :)
20:38:43 <milek7_> and it also provides tcp/udp over websockets
20:40:20 <frosch123> does that mean, when you start a server, you open a port on the webserver hosting the wasm stuff?
20:40:29 <frosch123> and can only one start a server at a time?
20:41:29 <milek7_> no, you cannot start a server
20:44:24 <milek7_> you need to run websocket bridge somewhere to bridge to normal server port
20:46:20 <frosch123> i am sure though someone compiled a webbrowser into wasm
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20:56:56 <andythenorth> so FIRS compile in the browser?
21:12:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: that's the new devzone
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21:24:25 <andythenorth> “you can have two languages — the old language I did with the curly braces and the functions and the shift operators, and this new language which is a binary language, not meant for reading by humans or writing. But it can be generated by compilers and tools, and can be read by tools…”
21:24:40 <andythenorth> not nml, but js :P
21:26:51 <frosch123> btw. does gh show somewhere that someone requested your review for something?
21:27:12 <frosch123> i keep on running into PRs where lordaro requested review from me
21:27:24 <frosch123> but the notification probably got lost in all the other notification spam
21:38:44 <andythenorth> I never request reviews in ticketing systems, not sure of the etiquette :)
21:38:57 <andythenorth> we have a work rule about not assigning tickets to people without conversation
21:40:42 <frosch123> i wouldn't make a guess whether there was a conversation :p
21:51:25 <andythenorth> have we all bought electric cars yet?
21:55:58 <andythenorth> how electric is it?
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22:50:06 <greeter> hmm compiling openttd from source is not as easy as i remember it being lol
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23:28:04 <greeter> no, i got it :-) it's running great
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