IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-10-14
⏴ go to previous day
00:06:01 <andythenorth> supermop_pdx: looks like hopper loading speed is 2x, dump car is 1.5x
00:08:04 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
00:08:30 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
00:28:53 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd
01:26:05 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd
02:02:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
02:03:29 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
02:07:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 closed issue #7711: #7612 causes multiple news messages to show at once and overlap. https://git.io/JeYiD
02:07:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7711: #7612 causes multiple news messages to show at once and overlap. https://git.io/JeYiD
02:11:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
02:12:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
05:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> did we announce or release something? or what's with the sudden influx of weird tickets
08:44:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:49:29 <LordAro> feel free to reopen if anyone disagrees
10:36:45 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd
10:39:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mysteron347 opened issue #7770: Current-location indicator in orders list missing https://git.io/Je8Z9
11:26:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:31:21 *** qwebirc4063 has joined #openttd
11:31:25 <planetmaker> andythenorth, did you discuss retiring devzone entirely yesterday or "just" migration of all repos?
11:31:40 <DorpsGek> qwebirc4063: Sacro was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 20 hours, 20 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Sacro> Nothing more, nothing less
11:31:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: only repos
11:31:58 <andythenorth> I made a little list of ideas
11:32:01 <qwebirc4063> Can anyone tell me when I went? Can't contact my server :(
11:32:36 <andythenorth> planetmaker: seems a bit nuclear to delete all of it, versus migrating one service at a time, but I'd value your opinion :)
11:36:31 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
12:07:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth, there is no plan in deleting *any* repo
12:07:45 <planetmaker> but migrating the repos to github is a good idea which I support. And which the 30-odd repos is a start of...
12:08:21 <planetmaker> actually I'm just (slowy) migrating stuff to a new server
12:08:42 <planetmaker> * rhodecode = repos
12:09:03 <andythenorth> is there an auth provider / LDAP, or is redmine doing that?
12:09:17 <planetmaker> there is no SSO at all
12:09:26 <planetmaker> redmine handles it for eints iirc
12:09:32 <andythenorth> that was my understanding
12:10:35 <planetmaker> I shall also migrate the openttdcoop stuff, but that is not of much interest in this context ;)
12:11:29 <planetmaker> but setting repos to read-only... not sure I want to do that
12:11:56 <planetmaker> I've one, two somewhat hidden I use myself :P
12:12:04 <planetmaker> but unrelated to openttd endevours
12:12:29 <planetmaker> oh... service: *paste
12:15:32 <planetmaker> anyhow... I heard there's cake upstairs :D
13:51:09 <crem> Sorry for the offtopic, I have a gameplay (not development question): do you use classical signal along the route and path-based near junctions/stations, or just PBS everywhere?
13:59:26 * andythenorth is PBS everywhere
14:00:25 <crem> I'm avoiding PBS everywhere as it feels to me that it's more computation for my CPU. :) Probably not worth caring.
14:01:55 <crem> And for classical+PBS approach, I feel that I do more mouseclicks than I should. Was going to ask how people do that. E.g. whether in settings you have "cycle over PBS only", etc..
14:12:22 <crem> Reading wiki... Apparently bi-directional tracks is the new modern thing in 21st century! I'm still playing it like it was original TTD (almost).
14:12:56 <andythenorth> the optimum throughput is one line per train :P
14:13:05 <andythenorth> not optimum for use of map tiles though :P
14:13:49 <crem> Well, I optimize for neither, mostly for "player time" or "player fun". :)
14:14:06 <crem> For me large networks are more fun than small but well performing nets.
14:14:47 <crem> Also I think I prefer realism over efficiency.
15:23:06 <FLHerne> crem: I use block signals everywhere, and path only near junctions
15:23:59 <FLHerne> Mostly for aesthetics; I'm sure there's /some/ performance difference but it certainly isn't significant
15:24:54 <FLHerne> Building signals, I have the 2-way path signal selected most of the time; then I can ctrl-click after building to cycle to 1-way or block
15:26:33 <crem> FLHerne: You have 2-way block (ordinary) signal selected, right? And you have enabled them all for cycling through? (e.g. it's like 5 ctrl+clicks to get from ordinary signal to path-based).
15:27:21 <FLHerne> crem: Right, but no-one cares about the weird block types except for prio or other niche uses
15:27:30 <FLHerne> So it's only ever one or two clicks
15:28:03 <FLHerne> crem: Er, sorry, wrong
15:28:20 <FLHerne> crem: 2-way /path/ selected normally
15:28:23 <crem> Yeah, but sequence is block-entry-exit-combo-path-onewaypath. To get from block to path you have to click 4 times :)
15:28:34 <FLHerne> So it's 2-way path -> 1-way path -> plain block
15:28:40 <crem> Ah, 2way path! Ok, will try that.
15:29:01 * FLHerne needs to skimread less :P
15:29:24 <crem> I tried to disabling cycling through block signals (there is a setting for it), but then I cannot convert back from path to ordinary if I want to. I found no way at all, rather than remove and place again.
15:29:51 <FLHerne> I assume you know you can ctrl-drag to build continuous signals?
15:30:14 <FLHerne> So the vast majority of my signals are plain block ones, but I don't actually place very many
15:30:16 <crem> yes, I think I could do that even in initial TTD
15:31:16 <crem> Yeah, but building signals around stations still involve lots of clicking and ctrl+clicking. But I had block signals by default, maybe with two-way path it's easier.
15:32:57 <crem> If I could also drag over turning road.. :)
15:32:58 <FLHerne> crem: Almost certainly; block signals are always the right things in stations ;-)
15:34:30 *** arikover has joined #openttd
15:56:33 <andythenorth> FLHerne adjunct to Horse comments, which is your favourite train grf?
16:00:16 <FLHerne> andythenorth: UKRS2, no question ;-)
16:00:39 <FLHerne> I love the small loading gauge
16:01:04 <FLHerne> Makes the proportions much better, and they don't dwarf houses in such a silly way
16:01:18 <FLHerne> [and everything I said yesterday]
16:04:09 <crem> i've just read coopwiki, "While you are dragging it a little bit press the CTRL button and release it.".. It turned out I didn't know I could ctrl+drag! I knew I could drag, but not ctrl+drag!
16:04:33 <crem> That's why I complained about turning road!
16:08:01 <FLHerne> crem: Oh, wow, I never realised you can non-ctrl-drag :D
16:14:22 <andythenorth> Horse is more plastic, and doesn't bother with left-to-right shading
16:17:12 <FLHerne> Interesting comparison
16:17:19 <planetmaker> btw, @crem: gameplay questions are NOT off-topic here :)
16:17:38 <FLHerne> I think the difference is much bigger with steam locos
16:18:04 <FLHerne> Most Horse ones look to me like a cylinder with widgets glued on
16:19:51 <FLHerne> The tank engines and other small ones are better
16:20:36 <andythenorth> I spent about 18 months drawing the diesels and railcars
16:20:42 <andythenorth> most of the steam engines were done in July :P
16:20:58 <andythenorth> I have a suspicion that they look under-loved
16:21:26 <andythenorth> UKRS 2 steamers look more complete + cohesive
16:22:38 <FLHerne> Oh, and Horse's high-contrast fixed coupling rods irrationally bug me
16:22:59 <andythenorth> that's interesting
16:23:03 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
16:23:08 <FLHerne> Either animate them (not worth it) or let them blend in like UKRS's do
16:23:19 <FLHerne> Locomotives sliding along look silly
16:24:42 <FLHerne> I think I said yesterday about Horse vehicles looking very 'kitbuilt' in general, and the steam locos are definitely at the top there
16:25:18 <andythenorth> they are very much cut-paste
16:25:37 <FLHerne> Ah, that image is perfect :D
16:26:56 <andythenorth> ^ the lolz in that story is that it turns out Corbs is someone I've worked with for years
16:27:00 <andythenorth> parallel interests :P
16:30:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
16:39:17 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
16:39:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
16:46:55 <andythenorth> pikka has better wheels
16:47:12 <andythenorth> and the trains aren't compressed to fit the length scale
16:47:16 <andythenorth> so they look more natural
16:47:57 <andythenorth> and pikka hasn't added the constraint of including 2CC on every train
16:50:49 * andythenorth making notes for future
16:55:45 <crem> Another offtopic question. :) I'm never sure how many bus stations do I need per town. Is it just one, or a bunch of them for realism? E.g. is there any reason to transport passengers from one to another part of the same city?
16:56:42 <FLHerne> In 'specific detail complaints', the Horse domes look like they're somehow hovering in front of the boiler
16:57:08 <nielsm> crem: that's an on-topic question
16:57:32 <FLHerne> crem: Towns grow faster with more stations (up to 4, 5, or something), and if you move more passengers
16:57:35 <nielsm> as far as town growth is concerned, anything past four active stations gives no additional bonus
16:57:53 <nielsm> and in this context, active station means "someone attempted picking up cargo recently"
16:58:03 <FLHerne> crem: Passenger production is based on houses in the catchment, so more stations usually means more passengers
16:58:14 <FLHerne> (although you can 'cheat' with station-joining)
16:58:15 <nielsm> a station only receiving deliveries does not count as active
16:58:48 <crem> Ok, thanks. But it's still not that profitable because buses are slow and distances are short, right?
16:59:01 <crem> No need to do buses except for fun/realism, kind of.
16:59:19 <nielsm> yes you should have at least six tiles (manhattan distance) between bus stops if you want to run buses for profit
16:59:21 <FLHerne> crem: Depends. If you have cargodist on, or set up transfers manually, bus passengers can go long-distance
16:59:51 <andythenorth> yeah the Horse domes look like they were just pasted on :P
17:00:00 <andythenorth> the reason for that is that they were just pasted on :P
17:00:10 <FLHerne> crem: The silly profit-focussed method is to have buses pickup-only, and then transfer to high-speed trains when full
17:00:15 <crem> If I have transfer order, cargo won't be "accepted" even if station accepts it, right?
17:00:21 * andythenorth needs to declare lesser enthusiasm for kettles compared to diesels
17:00:30 <FLHerne> But I find that playing OTTD for profit is no fun anyway
17:00:34 <nielsm> if your order is specifically "transfer" then yes
17:00:35 <andythenorth> still, feedback drives quality, eh?
17:00:43 <nielsm> the cargo is unloaded and left waiting at the station
17:00:53 <FLHerne> The economics are silly, and it's trivial to make more money than you can feasibly spend
17:00:53 <crem> Yeah, money start to be non-issue after like 30 minutes of play anyway.
17:01:08 <FLHerne> Unless you've changed costs in some drastic way
17:01:18 <andythenorth> buses are mostly to keep ratings up :P
17:01:20 <FLHerne> crem: Have you discovered cargo distribution yet?
17:01:28 <FLHerne> Definitely turn that on for passengers/mail
17:01:47 <FLHerne> Makes them want to go to a specific place, not just 'the next station'
17:02:17 <crem> Ah, more realism, that would be fun! But I guess I cannot do the for existing map, right?
17:02:22 <FLHerne> So bus passengers will automagically decide they want to catch the bus to the airport, fly somewhere, then take the train to their destination
17:02:32 <FLHerne> I'm pretty sure you can change the setting in-game
17:02:39 <crem> Is it a built-in feature or a mod/newgrx/plugin/however-you-call-it
17:03:21 <crem> That's good! Maybe it may make planes fun.
17:03:31 <FLHerne> (technically, it's implemented in an aggregate way rather than tracking each individual passenger, but the effect is the same)
17:03:57 <nielsm> FLHerne: it works on a per-cargo-packet basis and a cargo packet can technically be as small as a single unit :)
17:04:16 <crem> It was introduced in 1.4... So PBS was 0.7, cargodist in 1.4, next nice feature in 2.1 then .:)
17:23:30 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd
17:23:56 <supermop_work> something is wrong with this workstation where i regularly have to restart it
17:25:08 <nielsm> just like a train station is where the train stops, a workstation is where work stops
17:31:17 <supermop_work> andythenorth: last night i got an almost complete steeltown game
17:31:59 <supermop_work> 256x256 desert map, only one of each industry
17:32:39 <supermop_work> making decent amt of vehicles without any quicklime
17:33:33 <supermop_work> quicklime route is planned but keep procrastinating bc kiln is far out of the way and can't decide which of two spots to fund one
18:36:35 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd
18:47:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
18:54:43 <supermop_work> sure when i get home
18:55:16 <supermop_work> accidentally had not up to date horse load
18:55:51 <supermop_work> so no cargo shown on flatbeds
18:57:48 <andythenorth> those with newgrf dev tools
18:57:53 <andythenorth> overcome such issues :D
18:58:11 <andythenorth> give or take what min. compatible version does
18:58:13 <andythenorth> and breaking stuff
19:11:48 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:14:46 *** supermop_pdx has joined #openttd
19:21:01 <spnda> Where can I find documentation of Road and Tram types?
19:21:08 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
19:21:44 <nielsm> I'm not sure if it's properly finished
19:22:40 <nielsm> "someone" will need to merge it into the newgrf wiki soon
19:23:26 *** Progman has joined #openttd
20:08:29 <crem> Do you know how can I spectate public openttdcoop server? It needs password. Their wiki says to get password in their IRC, but their IRC is also password protected!
20:10:25 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
20:11:23 * andythenorth_ planning a holiday from making grfs :p
20:11:45 <andythenorth_> grf making tools instead
20:13:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:13:47 <andythenorth> anyone here actually use nml? o_O
20:18:10 <andythenorth> bye bye andythenorth_
20:21:26 <V453000> crem: you need to join #openttrcoop IRC channel
20:21:34 <V453000> you should be able to type /join #openttdcoop in here
20:21:56 <andythenorth> all family all day long V?
20:22:05 <andythenorth> babies, animals, bills?
20:22:06 <V453000> eh, work then family, repeat :)
20:22:26 <crem> Ah, so it's not on openttdcoop.org server! (there is a server!)
20:22:26 <andythenorth> do you do the morning family stuff?
20:22:33 <andythenorth> still does some days
20:22:53 <V453000> eh, half. I take the older one to kindergarten, younger one is home with wife
20:23:24 <andythenorth> I stay up late like a dumbass
20:23:27 <V453000> it's not too bad considering there is nobody at work pointing at the clock whether I come at 08:00 or 08:30
20:23:31 <andythenorth> then the kids wake me up :P
20:23:41 <V453000> I kind of got used to going to sleep quite early
20:23:56 <andythenorth> except some days, I'm like 'nah, live'
20:24:03 <V453000> but then we barely sleep these days at night, the two get in a deadlock state of waking up each other :D
20:24:26 <V453000> but well :) I'm busy as fuck at work too, but today I'm actually playing openttd
20:24:40 <andythenorth> my 9 year old was mad this morning because the 7 year old didn't wake him up
20:24:49 <andythenorth> so he 'missed out' on some ipad time
20:25:04 <andythenorth> now I am waiting to pick them up from lazer quest
20:25:20 <andythenorth> I am in a van, 11 floors above the city
20:26:04 <V453000> :0 I'm not going to ask how does a fucking van get 11 floors up :D
20:26:43 <andythenorth> car park innit :P
20:26:57 <V453000> is there a car lift or did you actually climb up 11 floors?
20:28:14 <andythenorth> so optimal junctions
20:31:56 <andythenorth> obviously it was buggy malware
20:32:07 <andythenorth> but as a creative tool, nothing has ever come close
20:32:33 <andythenorth> there is literally no tool on iOS or mac that my kids can use to learn to animate
20:32:34 <V453000> yeah, our art director had some good time with flash too
20:33:00 <andythenorth> it was a brilliant tool
20:33:13 * andythenorth considers dropping everything
20:33:21 <andythenorth> and building svg tool, but like flash
20:33:33 <andythenorth> oof I should go and get these children
20:33:40 <andythenorth> we can admire my openttd game more later
20:36:58 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
20:39:20 *** frenchiveruti_EasyOS has joined #openttd
20:49:24 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> hello quick question for linux, if I include the shared libs in the game folder when trying to create a portable version
20:49:26 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Would that work?
20:49:37 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Where will OpenTTD look for the shared libs?
20:49:45 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> in $PATH
20:50:04 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> or it will also look for them inside the folder where the binary is located?
20:50:12 <nielsm> depends on the system configuration
20:50:36 <nielsm> or whether there are some flags for the dynamic loader set
20:50:51 <nielsm> you can probably make a shell script that will configure the dynamic loader so it works for most systems
20:51:16 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Another question
20:52:01 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> I compiled using ./configure --with-libtimidity="pkg-config libtimidity" --with-midi=timidity
20:52:09 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> But the ldd still tells me I need fluidsynth
20:52:11 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> how's that?
20:52:35 <nielsm> try adding --without-fluidsynth to force it disabled
20:52:44 <nielsm> otherwise it'll autodetect
20:52:53 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Ah, quite a detail
20:52:58 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Didn't see that
20:54:39 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> sorry nielsm but there's no such a configure option called "without-fluidsynth"
20:54:51 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> at least not stated in "./configure --help"
20:55:06 <nielsm> it exists but is implicit
20:55:19 <nielsm> all --with-x have a corresponding --without-x
20:55:34 <nielsm> and all --enable-x have a corresponding --disable-x
20:55:57 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> okay. I would suggest correcting that because it's really not that obvious
20:56:04 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> I will try that now.
20:56:09 <LordAro> the whole script will be going away "soon"
20:56:53 <nielsm> so will Cmake be before or after 1.10?
20:57:14 <LordAro> depends if we actually release 1.10 "early"
20:57:19 <LordAro> at this rate, it's not looking likely
20:57:38 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Is there a roadmap?
20:57:55 <LordAro> there's a few things milestoned on github
20:58:01 <LordAro> which may or may not be correct
20:58:05 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> haha okay
20:58:44 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> How do you check "milestones" on github, just curious
20:58:50 <milek7> note that libtimidity support is missing in master
20:58:54 <nielsm> the 1.10 milestone is to a large part just me going over tickets and PRs and picking things that look likely/"really ought to get fixed" for the release
20:59:47 <LordAro> almost no one needs libtimidity anyway
20:59:53 <LordAro> unless your name is milek7
21:00:29 <milek7> eh, i think there was somebody else asking about it ;)
21:01:28 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> It was me hahaha
21:01:56 <glx> libtimidity is not available in "major" linux distro IIRC
21:02:01 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> But I albeit admit that I thought I needed it because the music didn't work
21:02:18 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> poor easyos.
21:03:00 <milek7> fluidsynth is better, but the problem is that it depends on kitchensink and glib
21:03:09 <LordAro> glx: that's why it was removed
21:03:42 <glx> I think libtimidity was added for some portable device unable to use ext-midi
21:03:53 <supermop_work> so i've been hearing a lot about this goose game
21:05:52 <glx> frenchiveruti_EasyOS: and for a portable install it's probably easier to compile statically
21:06:45 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> I think LordAro said that static works for windows only?
21:07:12 <glx> for dependencies it's ok on linux
21:07:54 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> "<planetmaker> he... WARNING: static is only known to work on Windows, DOS, and MacOSX"
21:08:06 <glx> we used to provide static linux builds
21:08:09 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> alright glx i'll stry
21:13:47 <LordAro> frenchiveruti_EasyOS: it's only tested on those platforms (well, not DOS)
21:14:05 <LordAro> at some point someone will get around to automating a linux build again
21:21:17 *** frenchiveruti_EasyOS has quit IRC
21:39:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:39:50 <andythenorth> "Back in 2007, you could be making Flash games and actually be making a living," remembers Newgrounds founder Tom Fulp, when asked about Flash's golden age. "That was a really fun time, because that's kind of what everyone's dream is: to make the games you want and be able to make a living off it."
21:52:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:53:14 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:40:20 <supermop_work> should i buy a switch just for this goose game?
22:43:24 <nnyby> i have a switch. i cant figure out how much the goose game costs. is it free?
22:44:25 <nnyby> oh, looks like it's around $15. most mainstream switch games are really expensive
22:45:12 <nnyby> this game looks like it would be fun for about 10 minutes. but what do i know.
22:46:24 <andythenorth> supermop_work: the goose game has found favour with my friends
22:46:41 <andythenorth> but you can get it on PC no?
22:55:21 *** johanna[m] has joined #openttd
23:03:03 <supermop_work> website claims pc
23:03:14 <supermop_work> but like i don't have a switch
23:03:14 <nielsm> spammer on the forums, everywhere on the forums
23:03:28 <supermop_work> maybe i should get one just for the goose game
23:04:51 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd
23:08:14 <super_spooky> oh I must be mistaken, hasn't been released on steam: "Planned Release Date: Late 2020 on Steam"
23:12:02 <supermop_work> it's going to take a year?
23:19:00 <super_spooky> they don't like money?
continue to next day ⏵
