IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-10-01
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04:59:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frenchiveruti opened issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
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10:14:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
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12:40:11 <peter1138> Hmm, okay, what's the most useful version of git for Windows?
12:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i could never make sense of wtf tortoisegit is meant to do
12:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> ... afair it only added a menu entry that when you tried to select it said "this is a command line interface"
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13:31:11 <peter1138> Is it breakfast time yet?
14:01:52 <peter1138> Yup, breakfast salad, here I come :D
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14:26:10 * andythenorth curious about lunch
14:28:04 <peter1138> Sorry, I didn't wait for you.
14:28:22 <andythenorth> I had cheese on toast
14:28:30 <andythenorth> it's not salad is it?
14:34:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frenchiveruti commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
14:35:16 <andythenorth> romaine hearts and weird shaped tomatos
14:35:19 <andythenorth> that's salad now
14:35:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frenchiveruti commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
14:36:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frenchiveruti commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
14:37:36 <peter1138> Half a little gem, and a load of other stuff. Hmm.
14:46:33 <andythenorth> is cold roast pork a salad?
14:46:38 * andythenorth is exploring the fridge
14:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> is anything not a salad?
14:51:49 <andythenorth> antacids tablets?
14:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> chips is almost like potato salad?
14:53:00 <andythenorth> I accept your correction
14:53:08 <andythenorth> coffee is a bean
14:59:52 <peter1138> My cake-dessert was not salad.
15:00:33 <peter1138> Both pieces, cos I'm a fucking pig.
15:01:50 <andythenorth> probably covered by earlier pork discussion
15:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> probably better than fucking A pig?
15:02:07 <andythenorth> oh good the validator is passing again
15:02:15 * andythenorth back to work jenkins
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15:58:08 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Good morning / afternoon everyone
15:58:46 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> I have a simple question, I want to default the audio driver on compilation time (known as SDL) to the "ALSA" and NOT "pulseaudio"
15:59:02 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> how should I run the "./configure" in order to do that?
16:00:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frenchiveruti commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
16:02:05 <nnyby> frenchiveruti_EasyOS: according to that FAQ, you would do: export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulseaudio; ./configure; make
16:02:15 <nnyby> but i haven't tried that myself
16:02:30 <LordAro> those options seem specific to the compilation of SDL itself? or am i misreading it?
16:03:00 <LordAro> nnyby: also, the reverse of that :p
16:03:09 <LordAro> SDL_AUDIODRIVER=alsa, probably
16:03:28 <nnyby> ohh, whoops i misread the question. yeah
16:03:38 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> LordAro, you are probably right, I will try to use what nnyby said and see how it goes.
16:04:16 <nnyby> also, yeah i'm not sure. the faq is called "Using SDL", it's unclear if these are SDL compile options or not.. but i suppose that would make sense.
16:05:24 <peter1138> .gitattributes "* text=auto" hmm
16:05:43 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> compiling :)
16:05:49 <peter1138> nnyby, no, they are run-time options.
16:06:39 <nnyby> in my experience pulseaudio sometimes takes over sound anyways, whether or not it's been compiled in to an application. alsa outputs sound to pulseaudio, if pulseaudio is enabled..
16:06:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
16:06:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
16:08:54 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Yeah, I am not a fan of pulseaudio...
16:10:36 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> If I come up with a working solution I'll post the answer in the closed thread
16:15:12 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> It fucking works, you did it nnyby and LordAro
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16:18:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frenchiveruti commented on issue #7757: Compiling from source gives an instant crash without information in the log-file https://git.io/JengC
16:20:04 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Can any of the maintainers tag the issue as "Linux"?
16:22:57 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Okay I have a new question, if you can help me is appreciated, how can I now make everything run in the same folder, as if it was a portable version of the game
16:23:26 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Instead of it looking and downloading things in ~/.openttd I would like it to do everything where the game is located.
16:23:46 <nielsm> place openttd.cfg in the same directory as the binary
16:23:55 <nielsm> then it should use that as the base for everything
16:24:01 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Would that also make it look for run-time libraries there?
16:24:13 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Or that shouldn't be something I have to worry about.
16:24:13 <nielsm> no that's still dependent on the OS
16:24:28 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Ok, is there a way to provide the libraries with the game?
16:25:01 <nielsm> either a 100% static build (difficult), or some tricks with LD environment variables which I don't know
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16:26:22 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Alright so this portable installation has a "restrictions may apply"?
16:27:52 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> I am going to try and see if the game runs on a fresh installation of the OS, luckily that's very easy to achieve.
16:40:54 <planetmaker> he... WARNING: static is only known to work on Windows, DOS, and MacOSX
16:50:01 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> I'm sure there's some trickery that can be done to make it work, at least on EasyOS.
16:50:03 <frenchiveruti_EasyOS> Thanks all!
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17:47:42 <doggie> i have maked a save on openttd 1.9.3 in the himalya heightmap. i have build multiply railways and after build trains on it a few wagons are now any more available in the list
18:05:45 <nielsm> what newgrfs and what year?
18:05:49 <nielsm> and have you used any cheats?
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18:06:31 <doggie> nielsm: i have i this save cheats not anabled
18:07:56 <doggie> nielsm: i don't understand now what you are maning with newgrfs
18:08:44 <doggie> nielsm: in the year 1952 or 1958 that i found it out
18:10:19 <nielsm> newgrfs are mods such as different trains than the original game
18:11:32 <nielsm> check there if any newgrf are active
18:11:49 <doggie> nielsm: it is empty by me
18:12:20 <doggie> i will send a screen off it
18:12:22 <nielsm> that's really strange then if you can't build any trains at all
18:15:55 <doggie> nielsm: yes at the first look it is normal execpt that i can't make the train long after i have build it an drive with it. now can i not found the same wagon. so that it can cargo more load per train. or can build a same train on another track
18:16:11 <nielsm> oh... you can't make long trains
18:16:43 <doggie> nielsm: i can make longer trains
18:17:08 <doggie> nielsm: the wagon from the train in the wagon is not in the list
18:17:39 <doggie> that is my problem. and it was not in 1.9.1
18:19:04 <nielsm> okay I have an idea, try clicking the "show hidden" (verborgen weergeven) button at the top
18:19:13 <nielsm> maybe you accidentally clicked the Hide button for the wagon
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18:36:21 <doggie> nielsm: thanks that is the sulotuin for the problem. i will unhid them
18:36:24 <Samu> continuing yesterdays tests
18:36:32 <Samu> NoNoCAB has fallen to 4th place
18:36:50 <Samu> RailwAI is now the new 3rd place
18:37:28 <Samu> WormAI oscillates between 1st and 3rd, but most of the time it's 2nd place
18:37:55 <Samu> and LuDiAI Afterfix oscillates between 1st and 2nd, against WormAI
18:48:54 <Samu> renaming stations, vehicles, etc... should cost money
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19:01:06 <andythenorth> nielsm: how was the metro?
19:04:01 <nielsm> the new metro, almost just like the old
19:04:33 <nielsm> even the brand new trains look not much different from the 17 year old ones
19:07:01 <Samu> I wonder which year will all the AIs stagnate
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19:11:22 <Samu> fastforwarding is so terribly, horribly slow, makes me wanna...
19:19:16 <Samu> i just noticed ShipAI ships don't service
19:20:44 * andythenorth wonders what a regions interface might look like
19:20:56 <andythenorth> is it via tile, or town? o_O
19:22:04 <frosch123> is there a use case for regions?
19:22:07 <nielsm> though I suppose polygonal would be much less storage
19:22:24 <nielsm> dreams of game scripts
19:22:59 <frosch123> it was inspired by simutrans actually
19:23:19 <frosch123> but back then there weren't any interesting scenarios for simutrans either
19:23:22 <frosch123> maybe they have now
19:25:22 <nielsm> but I think it's worth separating natural regions versus political regions
19:25:25 <frosch123> i think zuu had some gs which took input from signs placed in scenario editor
19:25:31 <nielsm> unless you allow overlap
19:25:34 <frosch123> but everyone uses random maps, not se :p
19:26:32 <frosch123> i mainly wanted to add a gs-hook to commands
19:26:44 <frosch123> and leave the "meaning" to the gs
19:27:21 <andythenorth> my use case is co-locating industries
19:27:34 <andythenorth> I can _somewhat_ do it with location checks already
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19:27:52 <andythenorth> but it's very sensitive to map settings
19:28:10 <andythenorth> and if I add too many checks, it's prone to deadlocks (or more accurately, missing industries)
19:28:17 <andythenorth> and slow game start
19:28:53 <glx> like ECS toursist centers ?
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19:30:46 <andythenorth> I like having very inter-connected industry chains in FIRS`
19:31:03 <andythenorth> so maybe 4 or 8 industry types might be related
19:31:15 <andythenorth> and I dislike building long long routes :P
19:33:40 <andythenorth> so my idea is something like defining polygons with radius maybe 48px
19:33:52 <andythenorth> number of polygons depends on map size
19:34:03 <andythenorth> newgrf could request OpenTTD to create n polygons with a label
19:34:34 <andythenorth> and then industries would check that label / UID / whatever when constructing
19:35:48 <andythenorth> the newgrf could decide whether to include / exclude etc
19:35:54 <andythenorth> local to the CB chain
19:36:41 <andythenorth> this is not the only use case I can think of :)
19:37:34 <andythenorth> but the ideas I have for GS fail because GS is not event driven :)
19:37:46 <andythenorth> and GS is blind to the newgrf
19:37:56 <andythenorth> and also...just GS :P
19:38:01 <frosch123> gs is also after map/industrry gen
19:38:36 <Samu> if you want to check your AI
19:38:38 <andythenorth> to be fair to GS, I think it's already achieved what it's good for
19:38:47 <andythenorth> which is city growth and/or transport goals
19:38:55 <andythenorth> but it's a blunt instrument
19:39:39 <andythenorth> maybe it needs filed under 'all good' and stop even trying to think how to make it work with newgrf
19:41:18 <_dp_> I just was a bit curious to see some stats on what settings serves use...
19:41:26 <_dp_> and, boy, that escalated quickly
19:41:32 <_dp_> now I have a knock-off settings.ini parser, udp client, tcp client and savegame parser all in python xD
19:48:42 * andythenorth wonders about electricity / energy via regions
19:48:57 <andythenorth> there's a proof newgrf somewhere for doing it in town registers
19:49:34 <andythenorth> dunno if electricity is fun though
19:49:41 <andythenorth> is it too much simcity?
19:50:02 <frosch123> so 99% of server people put no thought into settings?
19:51:27 <_dp_> oopsie, I think I got booleans wrong xD
19:51:53 <frosch123> oh, ok, i was particulary confused by those
19:53:24 <glx> yeah build_on_slope and auto_slope clearly feels wrong
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19:59:24 <_dp_> can clearly see settings with wrong defaults :p
19:59:39 <_dp_> exclusive rights, breakdowns, 90 turns
20:00:37 <Samu> ai_in_multiplayer = true (65.0%), false (35.0%)
20:00:53 <Samu> i never see any AI servers
20:01:51 <Samu> max_no_competitors = 0 (95.6%), 1 (2.7%), 4 (0.5%), 3 (0.5%), 2 (0.5%)
20:02:41 <_dp_> Samu, don't think it matters if ai list is empty
20:02:52 <Samu> so they turn AIs on, but then set up 0 competitors...
20:02:55 <_dp_> competitors, I think are sent separately, I don't catch those
20:03:19 <_dp_> Samu, it's just on by default
20:03:44 <Samu> they just don't bother with settings then
20:05:09 <_dp_> I've no idea why that setting even exists
20:07:07 <Samu> since nobody bothers with settings, change default max_no_competitors from 0 to 1 :p
20:07:30 <Samu> see if that peaks any interest in AIs or just complaints in the forum
20:09:05 <_dp_> Samu, I bet it won't do anything without [ai_players] configured
20:09:40 <Samu> it starts Dummy AI, advising players to download an AI
20:10:48 <Samu> or if they actually have an AI... :p
20:11:22 <andythenorth> Wolf01: Garratt :)
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20:13:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] pyup-bot opened pull request #8: Scheduled monthly dependency update for October https://git.io/JenSh
20:14:06 <Wolf01> I wonder what YT will suggest tomorrow
20:50:42 <glx> oh nice the PR triggered github actions
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21:33:33 <TrueBrain> nielsm: wow, that is a good improvement :o
21:40:16 <andythenorth> I mean the industry placement, not the existence of reddit :P
21:41:03 <nielsm> huge water check zone in front of industry
21:41:12 <andythenorth> - huge water check zone in front of industry
21:41:28 <andythenorth> - tile search in specific directions, checking for water
21:42:00 <andythenorth> - cache number of connected water tiles, and make it available in a var
21:42:09 <nielsm> aren't there a bunch of bits free in the water tiles? can we add "connects to edge of map" bit somewhere?
21:42:18 <andythenorth> that would be ideal
21:43:05 <andythenorth> there is a possible edge case with all 4 map edges as land, and a big circular sea in middle :P
21:44:28 <frosch123> industry layouts already have that water test
21:44:32 <frosch123> or is that not enough?
21:44:55 <andythenorth> I like to avoid 'locked in' ports
21:44:59 <andythenorth> I know that's a silly concern
21:45:10 <andythenorth> but I end up generating endless newgames to avoid it :)
21:45:43 <frosch123> add the refinery rule
21:45:48 <frosch123> only build near map border
21:46:15 <andythenorth> what's the switch limit?
21:46:43 <andythenorth> not enough to tile search to the edge of the map ;P
21:47:31 <andythenorth> alternative proposal
21:47:36 <andythenorth> map gen prevents locked in sea :P
21:50:23 * nielsm is again trying to find the source of wentbourne transport
21:50:48 <nielsm> the gamelog says it was migrated from saveload version 92 which corresponds to 0.6.x
21:51:01 <nielsm> and then migrated to 1.7.0 and 1.7.1 in turn
21:51:17 <nielsm> so it was probably uploaded during 2017 or early 2018
21:51:22 <nielsm> but it's a very old game
21:53:25 <Samu> intel core i9-10980X 18 cores 36 threads at "only" $979
21:54:06 <Samu> right before AMD announces their 64 core threadrippers
21:54:23 <milek7> i don't think they are poor at all
21:55:23 <Samu> at least I think they're capable of offering 64-core in that socket
21:59:41 <Samu> There was a recession, let's see who comes stronger after
22:00:17 <Samu> WormAI was the least impacted during recession, surprisingly
22:01:19 <Samu> post recession the other 3 most competitive AIs turned around and WormAI is 4th atm
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22:02:18 <Samu> wondering about RailwAI, it's 2nd atm
22:03:06 <Samu> WormAI vs RailwAI are competing for the 2nd place
22:03:27 <Samu> very volatile profits though
22:04:13 <Samu> as for 5th and 6th, we have SnakeAI vs ShipAI
22:04:46 <Samu> they're further behind as the top 4
22:04:57 <Samu> but competing for the 5th place atm
22:07:20 <Samu> woah, RailwAI nearly surpassed LuDiAI AfterFix
22:07:37 <Samu> very heat competition for the first 4 AIs
22:07:59 <Samu> well, just 3, I think NoNoCAB has given up
22:32:47 <Samu> RailwAI reached 1st place for the first time!
22:33:36 <Samu> gonna keep this game running, see where it ends
22:33:55 <Samu> hope save / load doesn't affect how they behave
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23:47:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/Jen77
continue to next day ⏵
