IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-09-29
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00:08:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 commented on issue #18: Linux error messages contain lots of docker "errors" https://git.io/JeZSV
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08:52:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZ5M
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10:00:48 <andythenorth> I have just released Horse 2.1 :)
10:00:56 <andythenorth> which means I have some headspace for other things
10:01:37 <andythenorth> I have a big FIRS dev branch, and I'm working on cutting some of it out for a v4 FIRS release
10:01:56 <andythenorth> I remembered that maybe 16 cargo nml docs needed finalised?
10:02:28 <andythenorth> I could help finish them
10:02:39 <andythenorth> also the industry directory window crash, I could help with maybe
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10:28:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain commented on issue #18: Linux error messages contain lots of docker "errors" https://git.io/JeZSV
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10:52:51 <Ettiene> |Good morning, are there any servers or anybody that is willing to accomodate about 3 players that "kind of" regularly play. Hosting my own server doesn't really work out that well
11:02:36 <nielsm> if you're fine with playing with other random people and the game continuing when you aren't on, just pick a random public server
11:03:17 <nielsm> if you want a private game with your own settings, you might have to pay someone to host for you
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11:33:11 <Ettiene> most of them seem to have passwords on them?
11:34:39 <Ettiene> (ok nvm, you answered my question :) )
11:46:13 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> which means I have some headspace for other things <- nerf something, or tanks
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12:06:57 <FLHerne> Ettiene: Reddit server 1 seems to be the most popular public server for "normal" gameplay
12:07:31 <FLHerne> It's always online, big map and no goals so you can pretty much do what you like
12:08:09 <FLHerne> Only issue is that the company slots often fill up
12:08:16 <FLHerne> You can usually ask to join an existing one
12:09:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZbz
12:17:55 <peter1138> They have dumb rules about industry 'ownership' though.
12:21:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries https://git.io/JeZb1
12:25:07 <troy_> i'am useing openttd 1.9.3. installd to update from 1.9.2 and i have download the himalaya map. but as i have build a train with a carriage it works. but if a will build another one or extened a existing one de carriage is from the list. as any one other this prolbem?
12:26:43 <FLHerne> peter1138: Only secondary ones, which makes some sense to me
12:27:12 <FLHerne> I think we had this argument before :P
12:27:35 <FLHerne> troy_: I don't quite understand, sorry
12:27:43 <FLHerne> A screenshot might help?
12:30:38 <Samu> andythenorth proved there are no primary or secondary industries with firs
12:33:01 <Samu> he got some industries which already produce "primary" cargo, but if delivered cargo, they produce more of that primary cargo, makes it hard to identify which industry is primary
12:33:27 <Samu> bends conventional rules
12:34:06 <peter1138> s/conventional/stupid/
12:35:23 <Samu> i wonder what's the industry chain like for those industries
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12:50:10 <Wolf01> <Samu> he got some industries which already produce "primary" cargo, but if delivered cargo, they produce more of that primary cargo, makes it hard to identify which industry is primary <- that's the boost cargo, usually "* supplies", there should apply the rule (s/rule/bullshit) "if I'm boosting this industry don't steal from it", it doesn't matter if primary or secondary
12:51:29 <Wolf01> Also I would be fine if we could introduce that game mechanic directly into the game, you already have "buy exclusive transport rights" in cities
12:53:50 <Samu> buy exclusive transport rights for all industries of this town?
12:55:53 <nielsm> per industry would make most sense, making an exclusivity deal with another private enterprise
12:56:34 <nielsm> but then town exclusivity should also be changed to only apply to passengers and mail
12:57:09 <Samu> I had a poorly made PR that was prioritizing companies which were delivering cargo to an industry, making secondary cargo be available more often to stations of that company
12:57:35 <Samu> but then newgrfs like firs broke it
12:58:19 <Samu> not a PR, actually, just something on my fork
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13:17:52 <_dp_> yeah, industry sharing mechanics would be very nice to have
13:18:08 <_dp_> but that should be just game rule not stupid bs like exclusive rights
13:20:01 <_dp_> e.g. some way to define (via gs i guess) how each industry type behaves
13:24:49 <FLHerne> Anyone for a quiet FIRS-basic/Iron Horse game?
13:25:37 <FLHerne> In the server list under 'Casual UK-ish server'
13:41:44 <michi_cc> Hmm, did nobody change any languages this week or did the EINTS commit bot die?
13:46:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #7754: Fix: [OSX] Wrong allocator usage for creating a CFString. https://git.io/JeZNz
13:49:35 <michi_cc> nielsm: Regarding #7717, would you approve it in general (assuming we agree on whatever name)?
13:49:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7717: Codechange: [OSX] Use std::unique_ptr with a custom deleter to simply… https://git.io/JeZNg
13:51:31 <nielsm> I didn't find any bad things last I looked over it
13:55:19 <michi_cc> My alternative name suggestion would be CFAutoRelease, because I'd prefer if the name is similar to CFRelease.
13:55:38 <michi_cc> Or maybe CFAutoReleaser if grammar is a thing.
14:05:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7754: Fix: [OSX] Wrong allocator usage for creating a CFString. https://git.io/JeZNz
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16:12:02 <planetmaker> we need someone who is taking care of the translators. No-one replied to translators for a few months :|
16:12:51 <planetmaker> it requires reading and writing e-mails and assigning translator roles
16:15:08 <planetmaker> hm... last valid translation request was in... July
16:29:57 <andythenorth> does it have to be via email?
16:30:27 * andythenorth wonders about a public system
16:40:59 <nielsm> or simpler in-system with direct approval?
16:43:23 <planetmaker> I would argue to have some human between registration and commit access to translations
16:44:03 <planetmaker> You might otherwise quickly end-up spam bots "translating"
16:45:03 <planetmaker> besides that I'm not arguing for any particular system of how translations should be handled. I'm just quoting how they are handled now (or badly handled)
16:45:06 <nielsm> that's my intended meaning
16:45:12 <planetmaker> s/badly/negligently/
16:45:21 <nielsm> you click a button to request access to translate, someone sees that request and approves it
16:45:34 <nielsm> without having to send an email and someone else to read it and then do a bunch of manual stuff
16:47:19 <planetmaker> Anyhow. The "how" is not ... the question. But the "who does it now". It obviously is not me to a good enough extent. I asked the same question about a year ago. The same answers. No change
16:50:30 <planetmaker> yes, going through the phpldapadmin for every request is really lengthy and mind-numbing
16:51:29 <planetmaker> But besides it needs means for personal communication if there's requests for new languages or non-standard stuff
16:51:35 <planetmaker> but that needs not be the default
16:53:40 <andythenorth> afaik, we no longer have anybody administering the project?
16:54:05 <andythenorth> obviously we have good rate of dev & PR approval
16:54:21 <andythenorth> but if someone asked me who looks after admin stuff I wouldn't know who to say
16:54:26 <planetmaker> somewhat... dunno? what do you reference with "the project"? OpenTTD as a whole?
16:54:45 <andythenorth> I don't know who it used to be
16:54:48 <glx> depends on what admin stuff
16:54:48 <planetmaker> yes, I agree. I don't really know whom to ask the stuff I cannot do
16:55:08 <andythenorth> orudge does the money?
16:55:34 <andythenorth> ok, so TB does most of the infra
16:56:00 <andythenorth> so that just leaves translations, and random requests?
16:56:14 <andythenorth> frosch was geting the random requests, but is retired
16:56:24 <planetmaker> TB is not in .tgp though... which I greatly regret
16:57:00 <planetmaker> is he officially retired? :-O
16:57:34 <frosch123> i am available for random requests :)
16:57:49 <frosch123> but i have not done anything ottd for a year
16:58:07 <glx> oh that happened to many of us I think
16:59:31 <planetmaker> just to be clear, the work with translations is not huge (anymore). Counting the e-mails asking for access since February is a a low 2-digit number
16:59:43 <planetmaker> the bigger number is deleting the spam to the address
17:00:10 <glx> but translator managing could be simpler (probably)
17:00:21 <andythenorth> the reason I am not offering is that I don't read emails :P
17:00:50 <planetmaker> obviously I look at those e-mails every few months... but that's too infrequently
17:04:16 <planetmaker> 29 since 2nd February
17:08:35 <planetmaker> 29 genuine mails to translators, yes
17:08:49 <planetmaker> compared to previous years that sounds like very few, though
17:09:16 <planetmaker> but that's the current status
17:09:41 <planetmaker> And I just deleted like the same or slightly more spam mails since that date
17:10:31 <andythenorth> is it documented what to do when a translation request is received?
17:10:40 <andythenorth> could literally be policy in the main repo
17:12:36 <planetmaker> so the translation manager reads mail (looking for account name quoted), opens phpldapadmin, and assigns requested language(s) to that account. commit. answer e-mail with "you are now translator. you might need to re-login for this to take effect"
17:13:58 <planetmaker> don't try to open the list of all users, though. It's too many, it will time out :P
17:14:13 <planetmaker> you need to search for the username :)
17:14:52 <planetmaker> (or e-mail, whatever identifies a user)
17:14:54 * andythenorth wonders about adding that to CONTRIBUTING.md
17:16:01 <frosch123> it's a somewhat trustworthy job
17:16:12 <frosch123> you can't give that to a stranger
17:16:42 <andythenorth> it was asked about a few times in this channel in last ~1 year
17:16:55 <andythenorth> impression I got was that it was a mystery to most people who might be trusted
17:17:10 <andythenorth> or I misunderstood TB
17:17:40 <frosch123> i think it's more about spam protection
17:18:00 <frosch123> have no ln annoy you every second day
17:19:03 <andythenorth> hmm, FIRS v4 by halloween? :)
17:19:59 <planetmaker> well, translation manager basically needs to be trustworthy as he has access to all personal information registered with OpenTTD since time beginning
17:20:47 <frosch123> i am sure you can also assig other roles than just translators :)
17:21:21 <planetmaker> yes. I probably can change or add any other role. Never tried... phpldapadmin is scary... and not exactly user-friendly either ;)
17:37:48 <nielsm> I could maybe try to set up an eints development environment here and try to add a kind of user management to it
17:41:33 <TrueBrain> what you could do, is use GitHub authentication, and use a GitHub group per language to assign people
17:41:42 <TrueBrain> saves you from building a user manager yourself
17:42:04 <TrueBrain> (and the SSO of OpenTTD will be retired, hopefully before 2020, anyway; so replacing that for eints would be a huge step forwards)
17:42:32 <TrueBrain> we just haven't talked really about if we want GitHub to be our central user manager, I guess :P
17:42:37 <TrueBrain> just spitting ideas
17:42:46 <glx> ldap is used only for eints and bananas ?
17:43:03 <TrueBrain> and some infra stuff, but yes
17:43:12 * andythenorth mumbles about coop eints
17:43:21 <andythenorth> and having two parallelt translators
17:43:34 <andythenorth> one thing at a time andythenorth
17:43:47 <glx> using github as user manager doesn't seem wrong
17:44:03 <TrueBrain> and yes, andythenorth, I am always very vague who the "translation manager" is, as otherwise people will start bugging people personally, instead of the group as a whole
17:44:21 <glx> translation requests could even be done in issues
17:44:38 <TrueBrain> or you could even make a repository with .csv files per language stating who has access
17:44:45 <TrueBrain> means the PR needs to be approved
17:44:47 <andythenorth> if it's a role to be followed, not a talent, then it should have a process :D
17:45:14 <TrueBrain> I tend to use PR approval for everything that needs a second person looking at it :D
17:45:33 <TrueBrain> saves me from inventing my own system time after time :P
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17:48:45 <nielsm> okay if the openttd ldap is meant to be retired "some time soon" then it may not be worth it trying to expand eints to have user management
17:49:55 <TrueBrain> It is already overdue, basically :(
17:51:14 <glx> github authentication and a way to link github user to allowed languages should be easier to manage
17:53:05 <glx> and probably more transparent to translators so they could know who are the other translators for their languages
17:53:07 <TrueBrain> Possibly that even means translators find a way to talk to each other :D
17:59:50 <nielsm> could maybe also have the language changes be submitted to the repos with the translator's identity instead of as eints alone
18:00:12 <nielsm> though that would mean multiple commits on multiple language changes
18:00:32 <nielsm> * on multiple languages changed
18:01:12 <glx> IIRC details are in the commit message
18:01:56 <TrueBrain> A commit can have multiple authors
18:02:09 <TrueBrain> Not a bad idea tbh, credit where credit is due
18:02:43 <nielsm> well it'd seem weird if I end up co-credited for the russian translation just because that happened to be updated the same day as I updated the danish one
18:03:48 <glx> with details in the message it should be ok
18:05:09 <TrueBrain> A commit per author per day would also not be bad
18:05:22 <TrueBrain> It is not like it will make many more commits
18:05:29 <nielsm> yes I think per-author per-day would be the cleanest history wise
18:05:50 <TrueBrain> Possibly you could look at it and show how that would look?
18:05:51 <nielsm> clear credit for who did what
18:05:54 <glx> per-language could be enough
18:06:15 <TrueBrain> I would do per author
18:06:29 <nielsm> well multiple authors on one language in one day gets slightly tricky then
18:06:48 <nielsm> you'd do multiple commits on the same file
18:06:58 <nielsm> which would need the changes from just that user
18:07:11 <nielsm> and handle cases where both translators touched the same lines
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18:08:53 <nielsm> you'd kind of end up with eints needing to keep its own branch history for each line changed, and then construct a series of commits at the turn of the day based on a git blame kind of thing
18:09:28 <glx> only the latest change for a line is used at commit time
18:12:09 <nielsm> but yeah an oauth based login and then storing user permissions in one/more files in the repo itself would probably work well
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18:31:11 <frosch123> i have a partial implementation of that
18:31:24 <frosch123> if you want to continue it, just shout
18:34:02 <planetmaker> right... for now I handled all translation requests for this year up to now
18:34:18 <frosch123> planetmaker: nice, thanks :)
18:35:17 <planetmaker> translation commits per author would IMHO be awesome. It would show more who did what work and how much. which can give incentive
18:42:54 <andythenorth> assert on NRT station tile
18:43:54 <glx> I hope you can repdroduce it
18:44:10 <andythenorth> dunno if reproducible
18:44:13 <andythenorth> also patched client
18:44:34 <andythenorth> I wish crash reports didn't leak half my system auth creds by default
18:45:06 <andythenorth> yup it reproduces
18:47:34 <andythenorth> trying to set an order to a specific roadstop asserts
18:48:30 <andythenorth> it's not widespread
18:51:11 <andythenorth> savegame uses patched client and unreleased grfs, so I doubt it's useful
18:55:27 <nielsm> is it the creation of the order that crashes?
18:55:35 <nielsm> or the vehicle attempted to begin pathing to the destination?
18:55:42 <nielsm> or the vehicle arriving at the destination?
18:56:27 <glx> the stacktrace is not very helpful
19:04:19 <andythenorth> it repros, so I can LLDB it or something
19:04:31 <andythenorth> if someone flys alongside :P
19:05:05 <glx> knowing where the call happens should help :)
19:08:20 * andythenorth reads the LLDB docs
19:08:44 <glx> I guess it's similar to gdb
19:09:54 <andythenorth> ok so I need to inspect the stack during the crash?
19:10:40 <andythenorth> oh lolz, I remember it has this 'bug' where LLDB it causes the system beep to repeat endlessly, and doesn't respect mute
19:14:15 <andythenorth> ok so after I trigger the assert
19:16:19 <andythenorth> looks like it's all just the crash handler
19:19:45 <glx> nothing exploitable there
19:20:01 <andythenorth> so what now, try and insert more logging and crap to the line that crashes?
19:20:09 <nielsm> maybe the assert fires another thread to do the warning thing
19:20:14 * andythenorth no clue about these things
19:20:15 <nielsm> so the real error is on a different thread
19:22:34 <nielsm> yeah try "thread list" next time you have the error
19:22:39 <nielsm> see what threads exist
19:22:52 <glx> but bt all lists all threads
19:22:53 <nielsm> actually just try "thread backtrace all"
19:23:13 <andythenorth> tthat's the paste above :)
19:24:40 <andythenorth> given Assertion failed at line 32 of OpenTTD.andythenorth/src/station_map.h: IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)
19:24:46 <andythenorth> can I insert a line of code there to dump the stack?
19:25:11 <andythenorth> or someone can have the savegame, and all the grfs, and the link to the PR I'm testing, and instructions :P
19:25:16 <nielsm> you should try setting a breakpoint or a tracepoint at it
19:25:28 <nielsm> if you can set a conditional breakpoint that might be best
19:27:22 <glx> ah, yeah try a debug build
19:28:16 <glx> optimisations in release build don't go well with debuggers
19:37:22 <andythenorth> is debug build a configure option, or just -d on run?
19:38:31 <andythenorth> google can't find it :P
19:38:53 <frosch123> ./configure --enable-debug=3
19:41:25 <frosch123> you can also try setting breakpoints
19:41:38 <frosch123> sometimes "break __assert_fail" works
19:41:49 <frosch123> but probably compiler-specific
19:46:57 <glx> breakpoint set --name GetStationIndex --condition '!IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)'
19:47:09 <glx> should work if I understand the doc
19:47:43 <andythenorth> lot more stack there
19:47:47 <glx> ah it's better with a debug build :)
19:52:12 <andythenorth> this occurs when I try to route an RV to a roadstop
19:53:55 <peter1138> I wouldn't do that if I were you
19:55:10 <glx> hmm looking at the code it really should MP_STATION, unless it's an MP_INDUSTRY
19:56:16 <glx> can you display the tile type ?
19:58:16 <glx> only thing I can see is an incorrect st->xy
19:58:51 <frosch123> st->xy is the position of the station sign, it does not need to be a station tile at all
20:03:04 <frosch123> so, yeah, that code is new, and it is wrong
20:03:15 <frosch123> if was "tile" before, not "st->xy"
20:05:07 <frosch123> i guess the fix is s/GetStationIndex(st->xy)/s->index/
20:06:49 <nielsm> it'd actually be pretty easy to make a station whose sign is on a tile belonging to a different station
20:07:00 <andythenorth> station tile moved at this station btw AIUI
20:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so, did i miss anything?
20:18:10 <LordAro> someone pls merge #7630
20:20:49 <nielsm> LordAro: looking at it now
20:22:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: works
20:33:22 <LordAro> nielsm: pretty sure it should actually be lengthof(...) * sizeof(uint32)
20:33:37 <LordAro> ...which is the same as sizeof for an array, isn't it?
20:33:38 <nielsm> then you're repeating yourself
20:33:45 <LordAro> bit clearer though, perhaps :)
20:33:59 <nielsm> lengthof(x) is defined as sizeof(x)/sizeof(x[0])
20:34:52 <nielsm> alternatively, switch it for a std::array like that one other place in the code :D
20:34:53 <michi_cc> We do have a typed MemCpyT...
20:35:18 <LordAro> nielsm: i like that one better :)
20:37:46 <LordAro> nielsm: alternatively, make it a vector and remove textref_stack_size at the same time
20:37:53 <LordAro> but maybe that's getting a bit out of scope
20:39:21 <LordAro> or maybe make it a std::stack, given that's in the name...
20:41:53 <nielsm> std::stack is an adapter type iirc
20:42:08 <andythenorth> what if industries don't produce until town population is > n?
20:42:16 * andythenorth still trying to make town cargos purposeful
20:42:33 <LordAro> anyway, one of the constructors passes in a pointer, so i'll just use sizeof and figure something else out later
20:46:44 <LordAro> ./configure --with-sdl=1 should work, right?
20:48:46 <LordAro> doesn't seem to work either
20:49:33 <LordAro> oh hang on, why am i trying to use sdl? i'm on mingw
20:49:37 <LordAro> must've been testing something before
20:51:51 <LordAro> ooh, new warning in the midi driver
20:51:55 <LordAro> i'll fix that while i'm here
21:19:37 <Samu> something weird WormAI is doing lately
21:20:16 <Samu> seems to be closing air routes, it shows profits declining
21:20:47 <glx> LordAro: on mingw I'm more on the --without-sdl side
21:21:30 <glx> because I installed sdl1 and sdl2 to test the detection when updating the cmake branch
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21:23:45 <Samu> it had 86 aircraft before, if I recall, now it's down to 71
21:24:20 <Samu> there was a recession inbetween, i wonder if that is affecting it
21:25:27 <LordAro> glx: that's what i did
21:27:51 <Samu> hmm, of the 4 best AIs, WormAI had the worst recovery post recession upturn
21:28:53 <Samu> green had the best recovery, it's nearly catching up WormAI in profits atm
21:30:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: should I PR that?
21:30:38 <andythenorth> or does it need more investigation?
21:31:20 <glx> I think we did all the investigation
21:34:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: i will, in a while
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22:03:44 <frosch123> hmm, first time using git since debian upgrade
22:03:54 <frosch123> git or the commit hooks give me a weird error message
22:03:57 <frosch123> i wonder what changed :p
22:05:39 <frosch123> hmm, GIT_DIR is no longer set when invocing the hooks
22:14:24 <frosch> so, our commit hooks do no longer work with git 2.18+
22:14:58 <LordAro> do they error, or just silently fail?
22:15:20 <LordAro> because michi_cc(?) noticed that the message checker apparently wasn't working the other day..
22:15:20 <frosch> our scripts test whether GIT_DIR is set, and the print an error message
22:15:52 <frosch> however, my new debian stable has git 2.20, so 2.18 is not *new*
22:16:30 <frosch> it writes "Don't run this script from the command line." to stderr and then fails with exitcod 1
22:16:36 <frosch> so, it should reject everything?
22:17:44 <frosch> i think the commit-checker invokes the scripts differently
22:17:48 <frosch> so it should not be affected
22:18:09 <glx> and the script works but seem to check only latest commit
22:20:59 <frosch> no idea where TARGET_BRANCH is set
22:22:07 <glx> default to master, defined for non master PR
22:27:57 <andythenorth> should industries require workers?
22:30:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/JenvP
22:31:03 <nielsm> andythenorth: maybe to cross certain production thresholds
22:32:38 <andythenorth> I am trying to figure out how to make towns relevant
22:32:45 <andythenorth> maybe I played too much OpenTTD :)
22:33:06 <andythenorth> finally time to retire?
22:33:19 <frosch> try the reverse? increase production when the town is small
22:33:43 <andythenorth> there is a migrations GS that looks interesting
22:33:50 <andythenorth> but Eddi's town layout patch crashes it :P
22:35:04 <andythenorth> FIRS town cargos, I just don't bother delivering
22:35:08 <Samu> WormAI built aircraft, finally
22:35:19 <andythenorth> there is no purpose to towns, except to get in the way :)
22:36:26 <Samu> make cities require less houses to upgrade in house quality
22:37:09 *** arikover has joined #openttd
22:37:31 <Samu> making them expand less roads, but have more bigger houses
22:39:03 <Samu> maybe a new town type, above cities
22:40:57 <Samu> I never understand what's a station, what's a industry
22:41:55 <frosch> glx: it works when i execute the hooks locally for 7752
22:42:18 <frosch> TARGET_BRANCH is printed in the logs
22:44:29 <glx> hmm rebasing step looks wrong
22:45:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/Jenvp
22:45:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/Jenvh
22:46:34 <andythenorth> are big maps fun?
22:46:37 <planetmaker> I leave it to you though to merge it
22:46:43 * andythenorth needs something to jazz up openttd
22:46:56 <planetmaker> long maps are fun
22:46:56 <LordAro> andythenorth: turn the music on
22:47:08 <glx> hmm "Note: switching to 'refs/remotes/pull/7752/merge'." used to be head, not merge IIRC
22:48:02 <andythenorth> also, I should stop playing FIRS Basic economies
22:48:16 <andythenorth> but I have to play test changes :P
22:48:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign. https://git.io/JenvP
22:48:35 <andythenorth> industries need pax?
22:48:42 <andythenorth> industries check town register for pax transport?
22:49:13 <andythenorth> change town black holes to processors, cargo in, waste out?
22:49:49 <andythenorth> change all industry production to be proportional to town popn?
22:50:36 <arikover> andythenorth: did you try the Migration GS?
22:51:16 <frosch> you joined 4 minutes too late :p
22:51:55 <Samu> in TTD, the end year was 2050
22:52:33 <andythenorth> yes, but migration GS crashed near game start
22:56:16 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC
22:58:13 <Samu> also static const Year ORIGINAL_END_YEAR = 2051; should be 2050 too
22:59:15 <nielsm> Samu: does TTD end when the date turns to jan 1st 2050, or when it turns to jan 1st 2051 ?
22:59:29 <nielsm> I'm pretty sure it's the latter
22:59:51 <FLHerne> I find the complaints...odd
23:01:57 <Samu> I dont know how to edit newgrfs, either
23:02:05 <LordAro> Samu: reminder that everything you say here will be forgotten, if you want to comment on the issue, comment on it
23:02:08 <andythenorth> we have a discord?
23:04:56 <Samu> 2050 is already past the score screen
23:07:25 <Samu> openttd logic is "At the end of this year,", ttd logic is "at the start of this year"
23:07:52 <Samu> not sure if it's worth complaining about it
23:07:57 <andythenorth> hmm how do I reddit?
23:08:06 <andythenorth> is reddit the new forums or what?
23:08:08 <LordAro> andythenorth: memes, usually
23:08:15 <andythenorth> I don't have a reddit account
23:08:33 <LordAro> andythenorth: probably for the best
23:08:42 <frosch> reddit is the new youtube comment section
23:09:18 <frosch> various channel disable youtube comments entirely and link to reddit instead
23:09:27 <andythenorth> did you know there are 2 kinds of YT comments?
23:09:41 <planetmaker> well... discord... exists
23:09:52 <andythenorth> there are the YT comments that I could write an autogenerator for
23:10:19 <andythenorth> and there are YT comments of actually nice people sharing information and appreciation
23:10:32 <andythenorth> it really depends on the video
23:13:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/Jenf8
23:21:12 <FLHerne> I tried to write constructive instructions, can someone sanity-check them?
23:22:46 <LordAro> FLHerne: the dropdown recognises OS
23:23:19 <FLHerne> [I've edited out that sentence]
23:24:34 <LordAro> oh, s/pallette/palette/
23:24:49 <LordAro> (not that i've ever done any GRF dev work)
23:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "can be painfully blunt at times" <- or maybe just german? :p
23:28:30 <LordAro> lost in translations in general, i think
23:31:28 <andythenorth> 'toxic' can sometimes be snowflake code for 'confronts me'
23:31:36 <andythenorth> and sometimes it just means toxic
23:33:13 <andythenorth> first time I came in this channel, I nearly quit
23:33:30 <andythenorth> but then I remembered how usenet used to be :P
23:35:30 <FLHerne> Do we still have webchat here?
23:35:56 <planetmaker> you can use whatever means to connect to IRC
23:37:24 <andythenorth> loving this multi-dock thing
23:41:54 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Please do, I have basically the same question :-)
23:42:45 <andythenorth> oh the FIRS question
23:43:05 <andythenorth> afaict, it's conflating ECS and FIRS
23:43:11 <andythenorth> Extreme hasn't changed much
23:46:31 <FLHerne> I remember having some unhappiness about the farms in FIRS 2 (3?), but now I can't remember exactly what
23:46:37 <FLHerne> So perhaps it wasn't important anyway :P
23:47:04 <andythenorth> I removed clustering
23:47:09 <andythenorth> and increased production a lot
23:47:48 <frosch> spnda: no idea where you got that link from, but i don't think there have been rpms in quite some years
23:48:15 <frosch> remove the "rpms" and get the tar.gz
23:48:18 <spnda> frosch, then you should update the NML installation guide
23:52:26 <frosch> but year, it broke afterwards somehow
23:53:37 <spnda> so, LATEST/ isn't actually latest?
23:54:13 <frosch> it is, but it does not contain windows
23:54:21 <frosch> i linked the second latest
continue to next day ⏵
