IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-09-17
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00:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> my hope is that we can provide an option where cities leave large blocks of connected tiles open <-- historically, most europeans had a large section of free space just outside the city wall, which was then used for placing wide roads
00:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> *european cities
00:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but for that to work, cities need a different expansion algorithm than "place one road and one house at a time"
00:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> something more like "build a large chunk of roads" every now and then, and then just filling it up with houses over time
00:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> (probably also changing the way that town zones work)
00:43:36 <_dp_> would look really nice if those blank spots were filled with parks or smth
00:43:59 <_dp_> also will be a bit different in a recent version as it builds houses on turns now
00:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes it more apparent that there should be a resolution for the "two nearby dead ends, but cannot connect in a straight line" situation
00:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... where i don't remember how complete that is
00:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ... this is from 2011
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01:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "return b-(((uint)(-a-1))%b)-1;" <-- there must be some better expression?
01:53:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOBG
02:00:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOBW
02:04:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOBB
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02:17:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7742: Cannot select partially visible station items https://git.io/JeOTK
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02:54:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7746: Fix #7742, 66dd7c3: widget position can be negative https://git.io/JeOBd
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04:28:11 <supermop_Home_> Eddi|zuHause that looks great
04:28:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there must have been a reason why i never posted it, but i can't figure it out
05:58:03 <supermop_Home_> i certainly think there's a use for more / better road layouts that can provide a bit more space
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08:40:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOul
08:56:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7746: Fix #7742, 66dd7c3: widget position can be negative https://git.io/JeOug
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12:15:51 <andythenorth> I've triggered 22fps instead of 33fps
12:16:08 <andythenorth> this is a transient issue that has no obvious repro
12:16:23 * andythenorth looks at it to see if it disappears :P
13:04:49 <peter1138> I'm wondering about lunch.
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14:00:11 <andythenorth> did we conclude lunch?
14:00:24 * andythenorth had coffee to stay alive
14:19:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JeOVC
14:55:06 <peter1138> I had lunch, and a green tea.
14:55:55 <LordAro> i had lunch, and mince pies
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15:59:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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16:12:55 <andythenorth> wish I could write with more clarity :)
16:13:04 <andythenorth> something goes missing brain -> screen
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17:16:54 <Samu> making towns a nightmare for pathfinders
17:20:25 <Samu> or in this case, finding a spot for a station
17:22:43 <Samu> i should actually rework my build station code
17:23:21 <Samu> it's been working based on assumptions
17:23:34 <Samu> that roads are always connected to the center of town
17:26:41 <Samu> i should perhaps pathfind from a center of a town to the center of the other town
17:27:18 <Samu> if this succeeds in test mode, then i should try finding a station spot
17:29:17 <Samu> almost all AIs have 1 road depot per town, or 2 per route
17:29:31 <Samu> i currently don't share road depots,hmm
17:32:05 <Samu> I have more control with a unique depot per route, than I would with shared depots
17:33:02 <Samu> shared depots would be troublesome, I wouldn't know how to remove them if I want to terminate a route
17:33:46 <nielsm> well just don't remove them?
17:34:08 <nielsm> or, when removing a station, check if any depots are nearby, and if there are, check if any other stations are nearby and if not then remove the depot
17:36:34 <Samu> must find my code about sending a road vehicle to a depot
17:37:47 <Samu> ah, I remember, it goes to any random depot that happens to be nearby
17:38:29 <Samu> when I renew a vehicle, i sell it from the depot it went to, and build it back on the route's specific depot
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17:40:29 <Samu> but what happens if I terminate a route where I have a road vehicle currently heading to that route depot?
17:42:22 <Samu> interesting, this has never happened to me
17:42:47 <Samu> road vehicle goes to another depot automatically?
17:43:25 <Samu> i re-order the vehicle to another depot? I actually dont know
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19:57:45 <Wolf01> How is elite dangerous compared to X?
19:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever to *shrugs*?
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20:01:28 <Wolf01> It's discounted, but I don't want to get another everspace
20:02:14 <Wolf01> (not that everspace is bad, but not really my kind of game, it's like a coin op)
20:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, never played any of those games.
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20:11:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7746: Fix #7742, 66dd7c3: widget position can be negative https://git.io/JeOBd
20:15:32 <LordAro> anyone opposed to me merging SDL2 PR?
20:15:44 <LordAro> i'd like to get it in before -beta1
20:16:49 <LordAro> and what did we decide to do regarding #7630 & #7680 ? merge the latter into the former?
20:25:17 <andythenorth> SLD2 is unmerged, not in nightlies?
20:29:16 <nnyby> correct, sdl2 is unmerged, not in nightlies. and yeah, if that's still planned for 1.10, then it would be good to get it in before any sort of beta release.
20:30:00 <andythenorth> merge it, see what reports come from nightlies?
20:31:31 * andythenorth waiting for visual diff to run, for work purposes
20:31:39 <andythenorth> visual diff needs to be faster
20:31:55 <LordAro> nnyby: can i be really really annoying?
20:32:30 <LordAro> can the commit history be cleaned up? pretty much everything before "Separate SDL2 code into a new video driver" can be removed
20:32:48 <LordAro> and a few things after that as well
20:33:17 <nnyby> sure.. i will squash that rn
20:33:41 <nnyby> i did make a few small changes after separating it into a new video driver... which may complicate the rebase.. i'll see what i can do
20:39:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
20:51:04 <LordAro> nnyby: ...which has missed out on what i actually wanted :> i don't like the fact that the PR changes sdl_v.cpp, then changes it back again
20:51:17 <LordAro> might as well squash it into 1 commit, really
20:51:39 <Samu> CivilAI seems to shine past superbus era
20:52:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
20:53:57 <nnyby> yeah, much cleaner history if it just doesn't touch sdl_v.cpp at all
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21:00:54 <Samu> testing different AIs on desert tileset without industries, just towns
21:01:04 <Samu> and limited to road vehicles only
21:03:03 <Samu> NoNoCAB leads in profits, year 2024
21:03:42 <Samu> and the surprise, civilai 4th
21:05:42 <Samu> i have yet to find the best perfect optimal profit distance between 2 points
21:05:59 <Samu> compute it the correct way
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21:23:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/JeO16
21:24:03 <TrueBrain> sorry, you triggered my OCD. You only have yourself to blame :P (I like how small the PR became :D)
21:27:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
21:28:13 <TrueBrain> shouldn't it be #elif defined() ?
21:29:29 <andythenorth> sounds like a famous song
21:31:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro most likely knows if it should be #elif defined(X) or if #elif X works ... I am too rusty with C++
21:31:51 <LordAro> it should be #elif defined()
21:31:57 <LordAro> alas, #elifdef is not a thing
21:32:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
21:33:55 <michi_cc> Let's see if that cloud Visual Studio will behave now :)
21:36:02 <Samu> what's the difference between SDL and OpenGL
21:39:23 <nnyby> they are different layers of abstraction. SDL can actually use OpenGL
21:44:52 <TrueBrain> live long and prosper
21:46:21 <nnyby> that's not how you sleep
21:46:35 <TrueBrain> no, you have just been doing it wrong :D
21:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm in the annoying part of civ again, where everything takes ages, but nothing i do is ever the correct way to do it :/
21:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ... has somebody pointed andythenorth to the log of last night yet?
21:48:15 <Wolf01> I usually sleed withing 15 minutes while watching netflix, I call it sleepflix
21:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> netflix and sleep?
21:50:58 <Samu> CivilAI is attempting 3rd place
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21:53:22 <Samu> has a better profit/veh ratio than my AI
21:54:07 <Samu> why don't some AIs get 500 road vehicles as fast as they can?
21:54:39 <nielsm> samu have you ever heard of the saying "perfect is the enemy of good"?
21:54:47 <nielsm> because I think you're falling into that trap
21:54:54 <milek7> if this is only backend driver, wouldn't it be essentially the same as SDL_HWACCEL?
22:15:54 <michi_cc> milek7: If you assume that SDL knows how to accelerate OTTD specific RGBA palette remapping...
22:17:24 <michi_cc> And before you say that: yes, using libs like GLEW could probably reduce the code size a lot, but half the motivation to do this was for me to get more familiar with OpenGL. And just slapping in a library doesn't do that.
22:19:50 <michi_cc> Also, I have thought about how to accelerate the drawing further than that, even if it's not done so far.
22:21:59 <milek7> opengl is annoying, too much version segmentation :(
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22:23:40 <milek7> and you either end with doing thing old way (cumbersome api and potentially slow), new way (cut off half of userbase), or have dozens of codepaths supporting both
22:24:22 <nnyby> hmmm, it looks like SDL is kind of on the same level as GLFW. except glfw doesn't handle sound
22:24:40 <milek7> oh, and there is that GLES thing, which is almost the same... but not exactly
22:25:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I am intending to try your patch btw
22:26:43 <milek7> and of course API that end in core are frequently different than EXT predecessor, even more codepaths...
22:31:23 <milek7> azure CI doesn't publish compiled binaries?
22:31:47 <LordAro> only if specially(tm) specified
22:31:47 <nielsm> the regular PR builds don't no
22:31:58 <nielsm> since that could publish un-reviewed code
22:32:37 <milek7> well, it is not codesigned :P
22:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might not be immediately obvious/properly explained what the settings do.
22:34:52 <LordAro> milek7: we don't really want to have to check every PR for bitcoin miners/botnets/etc
22:36:14 <andythenorth> or worse, new features for Toyland
22:36:50 <nnyby> toyland hurts my eyes o_o
22:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the original patch that the screenshot was done with was just a one-liner, btw.
23:08:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: interesting
23:08:44 <andythenorth> did we always allow buildings to build non-adjacent to roads?
23:17:20 <LordAro> wasn't there something relatively recently to do with putting buildings on corners?
23:17:31 <LordAro> or did that never get merged
23:17:42 <LordAro> also presumably some special cases for 3x3 layouts
23:19:39 <andythenorth> anyway the new grid options are appealing
23:19:43 <andythenorth> towns just look better
23:20:01 <andythenorth> somewhat like the breadth-first rivers patch :D
23:20:48 <andythenorth> doesn't create more room for big stations, but more chance of getting tunnels or bridges in
23:32:31 <andythenorth> we should probably ship it
23:32:43 <andythenorth> settings text need a bit more info
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