IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-09-15
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00:03:36 <andythenorth> can I measure company colour? o_O
00:03:45 <andythenorth> I probably shouldn't :P
00:26:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
00:26:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas dismissed a review for pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/JeYia
02:34:41 <nnyby> i rebased this to master andythenorth
03:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think he's around at this time...
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08:15:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7741: Fix #7644: [OSX] Try to use system colour space to avoid video output… https://git.io/JeY9y
08:16:33 <andythenorth> Twitter told me you're still alive and haven't fallen in the Brisbane river :)
08:16:42 <andythenorth> but here, now, you are
08:16:57 <Pikka> not permanently fallen in the river, anyway
08:17:23 <Pikka> trying to remember how this train drawing thing works :)
08:18:12 <andythenorth> advanced level: use code to make pixels
08:19:17 <andythenorth> but what are you drawing? :)
08:20:47 <Pikka> 321ing at the moment... also thinking about houses (and whether I should use code to draw houses or if that's tmw)
08:24:30 <andythenorth> I never bothered with code for industries
08:27:12 <Pikka> code is nice for lots of variation on a theme, though. I was thinking of drawing elements (or elephants) and then getting the code to put them together
08:27:51 <andythenorth> zeph did that somewhere
08:28:32 <andythenorth> if I did a town set
08:29:05 <andythenorth> I might do this:
08:29:19 <andythenorth> - draw some ground floors (door on left, door on right etc)
08:29:30 <andythenorth> - draw some upper floors (windows, balconies etc)
08:29:38 <andythenorth> - draw different roof styles
08:29:48 <andythenorth> all on same floorplan size
08:30:02 <andythenorth> then composite them, to give 1, 2 or 3 storey houses
08:30:15 <andythenorth> same for tower blocks
08:30:35 <andythenorth> also recolouring
08:30:50 <andythenorth> and I'd automate the boring crap like snow
08:34:15 * andythenorth container wagons
08:56:40 <andythenorth> Express Container Wagons!
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09:25:45 <Pikka> implied container wagons?
09:33:05 * andythenorth now lost in google
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10:44:21 <Samu> Pikka, how do I make your AI "beat everyone else" in profits/company value, or something
10:45:48 <Samu> I've seen it competing fiercely, once, but forgot to see which settings
12:02:21 <Pikka> Samu, dumb luck probably
12:02:57 <Pikka> disabling the road network building might be it... it just builds randomly then, doesn't spend so much time pathfinding
12:07:26 <Pikka> I'm just trying to remember how it works myself, hadn't touched it for a couple of months before today :)
12:29:25 <Samu> so i just discovered a new music group
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12:32:24 <andythenorth_> will it snowploughs?
12:33:41 <Samu> melodic songs with weird lyrics
12:35:37 <Samu> videos seem to kind of express violent thoughts
12:36:46 <andythenorth_> snowplough zellepins?
12:47:15 <Samu> the voice intrigued me, lyrics as well, investigated and got tat
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13:32:20 <Pikka> snowploughs are better than noploughs
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14:30:43 <peter1139> Well, it's my lunch time.
14:35:19 <andythenorth> I had two pork pies
14:35:23 <andythenorth> probably ginsters
14:43:49 <peter1139> Got some sourdough bread as well. Mmm
15:34:40 <peter1139> Damn, my villagers died :(
15:35:38 <andythenorth> should I Warcraft 1?
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16:38:10 <andythenorth> did someone have a patch for newgrf docks?
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16:54:10 <Samu> I want a remove all signs
16:54:54 <Samu> I plant my debug pathfinding signs, then i want to remove them
16:55:09 <Samu> can only remove 1 by 1, it's slow
16:55:18 <Samu> this step could be done in a single step
17:08:37 <glx> if human player can't do it, AI can't
17:17:10 <supermop_Home_> tbh i always feel like just building coke ovens right next to mines
17:49:16 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_: and that's wrong how? :)
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18:13:56 <peter1139> nielsm, why do you think that?
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20:08:49 <andythenorth> so HEQS in Road Hog?
20:09:04 <andythenorth> I've been adding HEQS-type things to Road Hog so far
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20:57:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
21:07:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
21:10:17 <nielsm> anyone want to review that? :)
21:13:29 <Samu> @calc (150* 2 * 3 * 74 * 127 / 4) / (192 * 16) * 2)
21:13:29 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
21:13:44 <Samu> @calc (150 * 2 * 3 * 74 * 127 / 4) / (192 * 16)
21:56:48 <andythenorth> nielsm: looks interesting :)
21:56:53 <andythenorth> can't comment on code :)
22:06:01 <_dp_> nielsm, it's probably possible to overflow 32bit on yearly cargotiles
22:06:16 <_dp_> nielsm, will need special newgrf for that though so probably ok
22:06:33 <nielsm> I thought I had made that 64 bit actually, guess not
22:09:31 <_dp_> also not sure if that feature is useful at all
22:10:36 <_dp_> you can kinda guess that effeciency just by looking at the track
22:11:12 <nielsm> the long-term goal is to add a way for GS to change the company score calculation
22:11:30 <_dp_> would be more interesting if speed was also a factor imo
22:12:10 <nielsm> the thing that isn't obvious just from looking at the track is idle time
22:12:32 <nielsm> this rating will drop if vehicles are waiting long for their turn to load, or sitting at signals
22:13:20 <nielsm> you'll get a worse efficiency rating for having too many vehicles for a route
22:15:35 <_dp_> nielsm, ah, missed that actually
22:17:12 <Samu> top left corner to bottom right corner of minimap
22:17:32 <nielsm> actually, it doesn't handle road vehicles queuing, maybe it should
22:17:45 <nielsm> nor aircraft blocked from movement on airport
22:18:09 <_dp_> nielsm, am I reading it correct that only idling is penalized but going slow isn't?
22:19:07 <nielsm> maybe it should, now you mention it
22:19:33 <nielsm> if a fast vehicle is spending too much time going much slower than its theoretical top speed that's also waste of potential
22:20:18 <_dp_> nielsm, well, at least for profit calculations acceleration plays a huge role
22:21:10 <_dp_> nielsm, bit this thing is kinda arbitrary so hard to tell what should it count :p
22:23:22 <andythenorth> in en-gb, 'intermodal wagon' or 'container wagon'?
22:23:25 <andythenorth> it carries containers
22:23:45 <LordAro> container container wagon
22:24:11 <andythenorth> container wagon container
22:24:19 <nielsm> aren't intermodal wagons the type that carry road trailers?
22:27:17 <_dp_> nielsm, what's the point of GS score calculation btw?
22:27:38 <andythenorth> delete current high score mechanic?
22:27:53 <nielsm> giving the company score more meaning :)
22:28:00 <nielsm> letting GS customise the game rules more
22:28:07 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, like, I don't see any point in having a score in a first place
22:28:20 <_dp_> goal servers have scores that matter but that's whole different story
22:28:33 <nielsm> like, in a city builder you could have the company score actually reflect the GS rules
22:30:32 <_dp_> nielsm, erm, you mean let GS show a scoreboard at the end of the game with whatever score it wants?
22:30:50 <nielsm> (still under the 0 to 1000 restriction)
22:31:39 <nielsm> and the performance rating graph reflects it as well
22:31:58 <_dp_> mb somewhat useful but not with 1000 restriction
22:32:47 <_dp_> like, for cb score is population, wtf is population in 0...1000 range supposed to mean?
22:33:26 <Samu> there's 3 screenshot options
22:33:48 <_dp_> also scoreboard is quite useful to have in game at all times not just at the end
22:33:59 <_dp_> right now global goals are used for that
22:34:07 <_dp_> probably the only use of global goals :p
22:34:59 <milek7> 'Company league table'
22:35:03 <Samu> make a gif video creator instead of more screenshot options
22:36:37 <_dp_> milek7, oh, yeah, we have that thing as well
22:37:33 <_dp_> idk, unless GS is allowed to write arbitrary info there it doesn't seem all that useful
22:39:01 <_dp_> btw, score also comes with unit of measure. e.g. money, cargo units, etc.
22:40:55 <Samu> there can be only one GS :(
22:42:31 <_dp_> nielsm, omg, components...
22:43:15 <nielsm> yes that's how the scoring works originally and I want to allow only partially replacing the original scoring
22:43:22 <nielsm> but you could also just make a single component score
22:45:36 <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, I get it that you're trying to make original rating customizable
22:45:55 <_dp_> it's just that goal servers work on a whole different premise
22:46:17 <_dp_> I would be more than happy if I could just have some window where I could put whatever I want
22:46:32 <_dp_> not having to deal with arbitrary components limitations etc
22:48:21 <_dp_> currently it's exactly this way with global goals that are designed to work as goals but never used like that
22:48:38 <_dp_> and using them just to write a text is a huge pita
22:50:57 <nielsm> I suppose it could be possible to add a global switch for scoring mode, "fixed maximum" or "no maximum"
22:51:27 <nielsm> with no fixed maximum the company league window would lose the "titles" for score ranges
22:52:22 <_dp_> nielsm, one tricky part is that hq graphics also depend on titles
22:52:58 <nielsm> and the HQ actually changes acceptance
22:53:04 <_dp_> actually.. title can also be assignable by GS
22:54:01 <_dp_> though it's kinda weird to have it all tied together
22:54:12 <nielsm> or a hybrid of kind? there's still scoring components used to calculate the rating, but the score is separate
22:56:51 <_dp_> nielsm, you mean have separate rating and scoring?
22:57:32 <nielsm> the company league table reflects rating while the graph reflects score
22:58:52 <_dp_> nielsm, idk, rating just feels completely unnecessary to me in that case
22:59:07 <_dp_> I'd rather just have a command to set HQ style
23:03:25 <_dp_> oh, btw, scoreboard on our multigoal servers includes companies that were closed
23:03:31 <_dp_> so there is that usecase as well
23:03:46 <_dp_> was quite a pain to implement also
23:04:00 <_dp_> had to abuse some other feature
23:05:16 <_dp_> namely vehicle groups as adding a group on server company is the only way I know to show arbitrary strings in GS
23:13:20 <nielsm> so you'd like a way for dead companies to be "memorialised" so their data is recorded even though they have no presence on the map
23:13:37 <nielsm> and allow some large history of these ghosts
23:15:09 <_dp_> nielsm, well, I just wanted a company name but I guess more history can be of some use as well
23:17:06 <_dp_> nielsm, like, if charts could show more than just 3 years it would make a lot of sense including dead companies
23:17:57 <nielsm> the graph UI is pretty bad as it is :)
23:19:00 <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, I completely gave up on doing anything with those graphs even in a patched client xD
23:19:15 <_dp_> much easier to do everything on a website
23:31:58 <_dp_> to sum it up, what GS lacks the most imo is ability to do UI
23:32:26 <_dp_> even in a simlest forms like showing error popups that have red window like real errors
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