IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-08-27
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02:21:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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15:21:16 <Samu> supposed to be excessively big?
15:24:01 <Arveen> oh there is an ad banner at the top
15:24:31 <LordAro> TrueBrain: DorpsGek_II seems oddly silent, has it broken, or has GH broken webhooks?
15:24:41 <Arveen> now that i seen it i totaly want to install PDF convert tools
15:25:16 <Arveen> way smaller for me - like 100x600 px
15:26:43 <LordAro> Samu: that's definitely excessively big
15:27:17 <LordAro> Samu: you've done that several times
15:27:20 <LordAro> think before you press enter
15:27:32 <LordAro> "undefined", funnily enough, is not a valid imgur link
15:27:46 <Samu> seriosuly, i copy link and it gives me that
15:27:55 <LordAro> but you still press enter yourself
15:28:21 <Samu> the upload speed here must be trash
15:36:14 <peter1139> That first image is clearly an advert faking being a forum section... just doesn't work with that theme, heh.
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17:33:44 <andythenorth_> Important news: I had lunch
17:35:54 <andythenorth_> that is all I can say before this connection drops again :x
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20:02:39 <andythenorth_> So how about MoreEnginePhysics? o_O
20:03:27 <andythenorth_> Adjust effective hp depending on speed
20:03:51 <andythenorth_> NewGRF definition of speed-power curves
20:04:15 <andythenorth_> Leave it all at 1:1 as default
20:06:32 * andythenorth_ wonders how parametric functions work :p
20:06:52 <andythenorth_> also how to cache results :p
20:07:19 <frosch123> you already have maxte, power and maxspeed
20:07:28 <frosch123> aren't three parameters enough?
20:07:44 <frosch123> do you need b-spline control points?
20:08:04 <andythenorth_> Te is a bit misleading, in tests it’s irrelevant
20:08:26 <andythenorth_> Unless the train has not enough hp for the hill
20:09:20 <andythenorth_> i.e. TE only offers differentiation when the train is already going too slowly :)
20:10:13 <nielsm> news on the macos slowdown front
20:10:43 <andythenorth_> the case is new Horse roster, frosch123 you helped me fix the lack of differentiation between freight and pax engines
20:11:06 <andythenorth_> But for new roster I want to do slow freight and faster freight
20:11:56 <andythenorth_> The current method is “slowest = highest power”
20:12:36 <andythenorth_> Which works and will probably work again
20:13:15 <nielsm> if non-perishable cargo types had even less drop-off in delivery payments from long transit time, lower maintenance cost on slow engines could work well
20:14:10 <andythenorth_> that’s a function of the industry set and could be arranged
20:14:32 <nielsm> hmm, how does input-stockpiles to industries work with acceptance stop and trains with too much cargo
20:14:51 <nielsm> will a train be able to stay in station and slowly unload while the industry works its stockpile?
20:15:03 <andythenorth_> Acceptance stop is generally unwise
20:15:35 <andythenorth_> IRL trains have peak and continuous hp
20:15:50 <andythenorth_> hmm, /me gtg :(
20:15:52 <nielsm> my thought was about industries rewarding consistent deliveries at a sufficient rate, and discouraging huge dumps followed by long waits for the next load
20:17:24 <frosch123> nielsm: do that via the output cargo
20:17:34 <frosch123> reward constant delivery with more output
20:17:57 <frosch123> instead of punishing bad delivery
20:18:34 <nielsm> hmm yeah, maybe like: stockpile never dropped below X in the past Y months: bonus%
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20:20:27 <nielsm> that's pretty much a cross-breeding of the FIRS and the SPI models
20:24:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what did you do to him :(
20:27:28 <TrueBrain> no real error .. just kicked it to see if that helps :)
20:32:46 <TrueBrain> "concurrent.futures._base.CancelledError"
20:32:57 <TrueBrain> seems GitHub messages are no longer understood or something ..
20:35:55 <TrueBrain> ah .. fetching .dorpgek.yml fails .. seems their API changed ..
20:36:06 <TrueBrain> well, that is not something to fix in 32C
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22:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 1000 people died in the tornado
22:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling that would have been less if i didn't tell them to go to the shelter
22:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ... because they panicked and went everywhere but the shelter
22:02:55 <Eddi|zuHause> like 600 people piled up in the tram station that went away from the shelter
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22:25:48 <andythenorth_> so I just use HP & speed for distinguishing different types of engine. :)
22:26:06 <andythenorth_> frosch123: no fancy extra physics?
22:30:33 <frosch123> i think i missed your point. what engine classes do you want to distinguish?
22:31:06 <andythenorth_> Slow freight and fast freight
22:31:30 <frosch123> or do you want the "show arbitrary png in purchase list"-feature to show fancy graphs? :p
22:32:00 <andythenorth_> IRL there are differences in construction between fast and slow freight engines
22:32:02 <frosch123> what is the benefit for slow freight?
22:32:11 <frosch123> faster acceleration? specific cargo types?
22:32:19 <andythenorth_> At game scale it’s probably irrelevant
22:33:03 <andythenorth_> being frank, this is mostly a way to deliberately mess up networks by introducing two freight speeds
22:33:25 <FLHerne> frosch123: In UKRS2, slow freight engines have dramatically more TE
22:33:41 <andythenorth_> Networks with a single speed are the easiest to manage :p
22:34:01 <frosch123> so, you wanto te to have a bigger impact?
22:34:26 <andythenorth_> Currently it’s ~irrelevant
22:34:38 <andythenorth_> I ran some tests a while ago
22:34:47 <frosch123> is high TE too weak, or is low TE too strong?
22:35:33 <andythenorth_> I don’t recall, but iirc the code shows TE only makes a difference in extreme cases
22:35:45 <andythenorth_> Otherwise HP always just wins
22:36:10 <andythenorth_> This is realistic & correct afaict for train physics
22:36:49 <frosch123> train acceleration mode: original, realistic, interesting ?
22:38:21 <LordAro> original, realistic, andy
22:38:42 <andythenorth_> There are some realisms missing from the realistic model
22:38:51 <andythenorth_> Maybe not needed in a game
22:39:26 <andythenorth_> IRL gearing is a factor for both acceleration and sustained performance
22:39:53 <andythenorth_> Rotational speed of traction motors has to be within certain limits
22:40:32 <frosch123> so you want to distinguish engines with peak performance (fast start) vs continuous perforance (heavy load)?
22:40:40 <andythenorth_> Also sustained power through a motor - heat dissipation becomes an issue
22:41:04 <andythenorth_> For steam engines, ability of boiler to replenish used steam is an issue
22:41:16 <andythenorth_> And size of driving wheels
22:43:07 <frosch123> the vehicle gui needs a "nitro" button
22:43:24 <frosch123> 90% to make engine faster, 10% for immediate breakdown
22:43:29 <andythenorth_> But tbh in openttd, “is it yellow” is probably more important than realism
22:43:49 <andythenorth_> Transport Tycoon 2 has exactly that nitro switch :p
22:45:52 <andythenorth_> I guess I would like to explore having an engine that will go at constant 65mph on flat or up a hill, vs 100mph engine that hates hills
22:46:09 <andythenorth_> Probably tmwftlb
22:48:24 <frosch123> so give one engine 50k hp and max speed 65 :p
22:50:28 <andythenorth_> once again, no spec extension needed :D
22:50:34 <frosch123> anyway, i still wonder whether it makes sense for engine to consume stored power at hills, and recharge on flats
22:51:48 <frosch123> would mean that engines ignore small hills, but don't they do that anyway?
22:52:37 <frosch123> i though about thermal capacity
22:53:11 <frosch123> less power in summer :p
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22:53:58 <frosch123> more power above snowline?
22:54:00 <andythenorth_> Diesels are altitude dependent :p
22:54:13 <andythenorth_> Higher altitude = lower power
22:54:24 <andythenorth_> Turbocharging mitigates this :p
22:54:56 <andythenorth_> So many dimensions of performance we don’t account for :D
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22:55:21 <milek7> maintenance costs should depend on fuel usage
22:55:26 <milek7> and it could be even negative temporaily, when electric loco drives down from hill and uses regenerative braking to return energy to grid :P
22:55:48 <frosch123> there was a swiss mining truck in the news
22:56:13 <frosch123> which drives stuff downhill, and empty uphill
22:56:37 <frosch123> they did not quite achieve to make it consume no energy
22:56:39 <andythenorth_> I’m sure someone has already tried to do negative run costs downhill in newgrf :p
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23:08:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] uvealonso commented on pull request #7705: Fix #7704 avoiding MacOS crash when badformed UTF8 strings https://git.io/fjAx1
23:09:41 <frosch123> so it got back to life?
23:14:44 <andythenorth_> Oof braking power also :p
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23:15:45 <frosch123> isn't that a wagon property?
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23:17:19 <andythenorth_> It’s a thing I’m going to ignore :D
23:17:39 <andythenorth_> It’s quite complex, especially for US freight trains
23:17:56 <andythenorth_> Limited air capacity in the brakrvsystem
23:19:05 * andythenorth_ thinks the main gameplay thing is choosing “pointy train” or “blocky train”
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