IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-08-20
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00:43:55 <Samu> just made my AI management interruptible
00:44:14 <Samu> this is quite an achievement
00:45:23 <Samu> pathfinds for 1 day, manages routes for the next day, then resumes pathfinder 1 more day, and resumes route management the next...
00:47:55 <Samu> as long as nobody cheats the date
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01:49:32 <Baricus> hey, is anyone here able to help with a compile issue?
01:53:04 <Baricus> I'm trying to get a linux dedicated server running but I think I'm messing something up with the move to github
01:55:50 <Baricus> when I finish the make install, it doesn't seem to actually install, as I can't use the openttd command aftewards
01:55:58 <Baricus> and I have no clue how to fix that
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07:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> always these IRC Noobs who don't have the patience to wait 6 hours for a reply
07:59:26 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: they did better than most
08:00:05 <LordAro> just asked at the wrong time
08:00:42 <LordAro> not sure what could be going wrong though, i don't think i've ever used make install
08:01:10 <LordAro> probably a PATH issue
08:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that was my first thought, too
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15:02:19 <Wolf01> It's me or it looks like a gif?
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16:44:35 <Samu> I don't understand. Now that the AI is more flexible with road pathfinder/management, it's performing worse.. :(
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16:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't look like a terribly efficient track layout
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16:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i think that's just opengfx's quality
16:56:14 <andythenorth_> Lunch or coffee?
16:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if coffee includes cake, i'm in
16:57:16 <andythenorth_> Can anyone build Iron Horse and publish the docs?
16:57:25 <andythenorth_> I am away from my laptop
16:58:43 <andythenorth_> I am using a device that probably can’t open zips :p
16:59:06 <andythenorth_> Wonder if it can run python? o_O
17:01:37 <andythenorth_> Hmm there are apps that use a remote server to compile the python :p
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17:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (not sure i want to know what he's doing)
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17:45:25 <andythenorth_> Trains are complicated :p
17:46:09 <andythenorth_> 4 axle diesels vs 6 axles reasons complex
17:46:12 <FLHerne> andythenorth_: What's your device? Termux gives you a pretty complete Linux userspace on Android things
17:46:33 <andythenorth_> iPad, everything is sandboxed
17:46:56 <andythenorth_> But there’s some equivalent of Termux
17:47:43 <FLHerne> There's a reason I didn't get an iPhone :P
17:48:02 <FLHerne> (well, more that I object to paying Apple to write software for my own device)
17:48:30 <FLHerne> But having a Linux kernel is certainly helpful
17:49:03 * andythenorth_ designing North American Horse
17:49:31 <FLHerne> Now I have a complete cmake, clang, Python, blah toolchain in my pocket which is always fun
17:49:34 <andythenorth_> US trains are unhelpful for game design
17:50:07 <andythenorth_> UK trains have mostly tended to faster, stronger, higher capacity per unit
17:50:20 <andythenorth_> Very game suitable
17:51:55 <FLHerne> Whereas the US has mostly gone backward since 1970?
17:52:16 <andythenorth_> US passenger trains were anecdotally hitting 120mph in the 1930s
17:52:28 <andythenorth_> and have got slower since
17:53:20 <andythenorth_> Steam engines hit 5000hp per unit in the 1930s, large diesels are 3000-4000hp
17:53:53 <andythenorth_> fast freight was 80mph, now restricted to 60 in most places
17:54:52 <andythenorth_> AC motors have replaced DC on large diesels, and can tolerate more low speed maximum power operation
17:55:13 <andythenorth_> So freightbtrains have fewer engines and less hp-per-ton
17:55:30 <andythenorth_> They just go on their knees and crawl up hills slowly
17:56:06 <andythenorth_> Very inconvenient for game design in OpenTTD meta
17:56:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth_: "large diesels are 3000-4000hp" is mostly because they can multi easily?
17:56:39 <andythenorth_> Yes, completely
17:57:05 <FLHerne> There was one generation of huge multi-prime-mover diesels and turbines that were meant to replace large steam locos 1:1
17:57:08 * andythenorth_ assumes the OpenTTD meta id
17:57:35 <FLHerne> And then everyone realised that was the wrong approach
17:57:37 <andythenorth_> ...meta is “moar, faster, in fewer tiles”
17:58:26 <arikover> andythenorth_: Plus in OTTD North America, things don't have to be 100% like in real world North America...
17:58:31 <FLHerne> Eh, at least double-stack containers are a plus
17:58:49 <FLHerne> (but you might need to invent non-clipping tunnels, finally)
18:02:38 <andythenorth_> Are there any other metas besides “moar”? :p
18:02:38 <andythenorth_> “Model trains” ?
18:04:07 <FLHerne> Although in that case, "moar" helps mitigate the ludicrous effects of town growth
18:04:22 <FLHerne> (might be easier now it's non-quadratic)
18:04:23 <andythenorth_> Is “coop” a meta?
18:04:32 <andythenorth_> SRNW and all that jazz
18:04:47 <FLHerne> Not one worth caring about as a set designer, probably?
18:06:38 <FLHerne> Appearance doesn't matter, all the trains are standardized and upgrading them would break the magic
18:06:49 <andythenorth_> Is “stability” a valid meta? :p
18:07:28 <andythenorth_> After 1930 net performance is the same, but train units change stats and appearance
18:08:46 <FLHerne> Traffic density rises as you connect more stuff and grow towns/industries
18:09:31 <FLHerne> With increasing capacity, you can hope to make incremental improvements to the core network
18:09:46 <andythenorth_> So one thing about ~1930s
18:10:02 <FLHerne> A "stable" set would just force building effectively point-to-point connections for every new route, which would be boring
18:10:23 <andythenorth_> There is big difference between anecdotes of high speed, and actual speeed
18:10:41 <FLHerne> Trying to grow an existing network without breaking the whole thing is a lot more fun than building one in the first place
18:11:19 <andythenorth_> Averages are much lower than the rare headline grabbing speeds
18:11:30 <andythenorth_> And not all engines were huge 5000hp monsters
18:11:30 <andythenorth_> Many were older and smaller
18:13:18 <andythenorth_> US railroads are remarkably aggressive with engine replacement though, many lasted 10-15 years, then worn out or superceded
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18:13:54 * andythenorth_ wonders about compressed generations, 20 years not 3p
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18:18:55 <andythenorth_> More drawing eh :p
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18:34:14 <Wolf01> Sooooo we are again governless
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18:46:19 <arikover> I think the base strings in French should be updated. How do I do that ? Being registered as NewGRF translator doesn't help, right ? Is there something similar for base strings, or should I send a pull request on Github ?
18:49:16 <Samu> I still don't understand how can convoy be so strong
18:49:25 <Samu> there's more than just that trick
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18:56:53 <arikover> nielsm: Ok, I'm already registered here apparently, but have no access to the "OpenTTD trunk" project.
18:57:25 <nielsm> there's some email you need to write to ask permission
18:57:31 <nielsm> translators@openttd.org I think
18:58:55 <Samu> i'm bad at variable names
19:01:24 <Samu> last_managed_array should be route
19:03:56 <Samu> "managing route " + i + ". expandStations"
19:03:59 <Samu> managing route " + i + ". addremoveVehicleToRoute
19:04:13 <Samu> "managing route " + i + ". updateEngine" etc...
19:04:52 <Samu> expandStations, addremoveVehicleToRoute, etc.. are the managing portion
19:05:12 <Samu> and i manage both i and that
19:05:18 <Samu> i dunno what to call those
19:06:03 <Samu> last_managed_management :p
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19:13:58 <arikover> nielsm: Thank you again!
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20:57:40 <Samu> I need advice, my AI underperforms before 1965, when Hereford Leopard Bus becomes available
20:58:43 <Samu> it's a slow bus, initial towns are also smaller
21:00:42 <Samu> it's hard to maintain a good station rating with this bus, unless i make the routes very short
21:02:13 <Samu> then i watch convoy, and I wonder... what did he do better that I didn't already?
21:03:26 <Samu> early game, convoy reigns supreme
21:03:36 <Samu> he's the master of MPS Regal Bus
21:04:38 <Samu> he manages to get 500 buses before Hereford Leopard Bus, against 14 other AIs in sub tropic or sub-arctic
21:05:26 <glx> passenger only or does it also moves coal ?
21:05:40 <Samu> passengers only, I limited all AIs to passengers
21:06:40 <Samu> before I implemented the convoy trick of delaying the start of buses, my AI was really trash
21:06:57 <Samu> convoy must have some other tricks
21:07:58 <glx> I guess it does not only delay, but maybe also manage the timetable
21:09:29 <Samu> hmm i think there's no timetable support for AIs
21:12:52 <Samu> i've also disabled distant join stations, to make them all play without station spreading tricks
21:13:11 <Samu> play as clean as possible
21:18:47 <Samu> find out the exact timing between buses
21:28:29 <Samu> but i can't put a bus every 3 days...
21:29:01 <Samu> at least on towns that dont produce decent quantities of passengers, and against that many AIs
21:30:37 <Samu> well, 3 days, have to experiment
21:48:58 <Samu> estimate buses needed, convoy got 14 on a route of distance 119
21:50:00 <Samu> optimal vehicle count, ludiai afterfix got 13 on a route with distance 95
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22:38:53 <Samu> convoy uses bus stops, i use drivethroughs or bus stops, depending on what's most suitable
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22:39:12 <Samu> but most of the time it's drivethrough
22:41:52 <andythenorth_> So 10/8 vehicles then? o_O
22:41:55 <Samu> the advantage of bus stops is that it creates a "queue" of buses waiting for each other to enter the station, it's maintaining the rating higher for longer
22:42:06 <andythenorth_> With no newgrf tricks??
22:45:12 <Samu> hmm my AI stops adding buses after what it thinks it's the max route cap
22:46:09 <Samu> I stopped at 18, Convoy already has 25+ buses on their routes
22:47:51 <Samu> that bus stop "trick", if you may call it
22:48:16 <Samu> also increases the chances that buses have something to load
22:48:47 <Samu> even if just 1 passenger
22:50:29 <Samu> okay, so 2 problems after all
22:51:01 <Samu> bad route cap estimate, and bus stops being better than drivethrough for cargo rating
22:53:09 <Samu> i dont feel like doing changes to drivethrough/busstop code. it's already complex
22:53:32 <Samu> but i can tweak the esimator a bit
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22:55:15 <andythenorth_> Silly disconnects, I give up : p
23:09:20 <Samu> perhaps now I'm overestimating... we'll see
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