IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-08-16
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00:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i've recently started to experiment with move it and road anarchy to get things to look better, but it's a bit tedious
00:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also i've got a toolbar mod that makes picking from longer lists of road easier
00:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and "fine road tools" or something like that
00:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and mod achievement enabler
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09:58:54 <andythenorth> so what about a FIRS economy where some industries only appear if built by player?
10:00:31 <andythenorth> I think it might just cause bug reports :P
10:00:44 <andythenorth> like when I had industries with random cargos
10:07:13 <planetmaker> LordAro, you now take-on the lead in organizing the challenge or competition? >:)
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10:17:43 <Samu> the quadratic stuff wasn't applied to company headquarters
10:26:20 <andythenorth> cargo label for chromite ore?
10:28:53 <andythenorth> already got FECR for ferrochrome
10:31:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7697: GetCargoProduction on Company HQ returns 0 for PASS/MAIL, but on TileLoop it does produce cargo https://git.io/fjda0
10:33:12 <Samu> steps to reproduce, meh, I didn't reproduced, I just looked at the code
10:47:04 <andythenorth> copper concentrate
10:49:06 <andythenorth> convention is upper case
10:51:16 <Wolf01> It's always best to use the element chemical symbol
10:51:43 * andythenorth is running out of industry IDs
10:52:20 <Samu> some AI libraries use numbers and lower case chars, and they work
11:02:57 <Samu> hmm my AI is overly aggressive with advertising campaigns
11:03:14 <Samu> I wonder if it's worth it
11:03:49 <Samu> but the advertisings, don't make it grow in company value
11:04:44 <Samu> I have to consider something more than just stations with rating below 50
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11:10:02 <Samu> cargo waiting at the station perhaps
11:10:23 <Samu> if it's too high, no need to advertise
11:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> copper concentrate is when you squeeze out all the water?
11:22:03 <andythenorth> copper tends to be in low-grade rock
11:22:16 <andythenorth> it's concentrated before any long-distance transport
11:22:33 <andythenorth> ammonia: AMMO, or NH3_ ?
11:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause> AMMO might lead to some confusion
12:01:09 <Samu> AIStation.GetCargoWaiting(st, cargoId) <= 300
12:01:55 <Samu> 100, 300, 600, 1000, 1500
12:04:50 <Samu> which amount waiting at a station is "too high" to not consider an advertising campaign?
12:05:17 <Samu> im going with 300 for now
12:08:05 <Samu> with 100, it won't consider the top 12 out of 160
12:08:39 <Samu> with 300, it won't consider the top 4 out of 160
12:09:34 <Samu> maybe 100 is better? 100 or 300, must decide
12:15:40 <Samu> something tells me i should be going with 100
12:39:37 <Samu> have u actually tried to build roads near sloped terrain, it's kind of buggy
12:40:19 <Samu> building 2+ tile wide roads starting on slopped terrain kinda fails
12:41:40 <Samu> land slopped in wrong direction or something, even though it can be built if it's built as a 1 tile
12:43:00 <Samu> i'm 99% sure it's NotRoadTypes faulty
12:46:21 <andythenorth> all cases work for me so far
12:47:17 <Samu> sec, better get latest version to try
12:48:26 <Wolf01> How do you build 2 tile wide roads?
13:03:33 <Samu> ah, got the buggy behaviour, posting
13:05:00 <Samu> the road SW-NE was there first
13:07:25 <Wolf01> There's a foundation there, you can't build a road going downhill on a foundation
13:08:12 <Wolf01> In the other 4 roads maybe there's a slope?
13:08:33 <LordAro> nothing in that picture indicates a problem, nor anything specific to any mythical 2-tile wide roads
13:42:42 <Samu> it should end the connection on the road with foundation
13:46:07 <Samu> is 1.9.2 without notroadtypes? i can try there
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13:52:35 <Samu> I'm confused, I don't recall it never connecting there
13:54:11 <Samu> it's doing the same in 1.9.2, I'm confused now
13:56:36 <Wolf01> It always have been like that
13:56:54 <Wolf01> If you want to build the last road bit to connect, you should stop there
13:57:32 <Wolf01> Trying to build a full tile throws error and both roadbits fail
13:58:05 <Wolf01> You could try to "fix" it by tuning the "buildstraightroad" function or whatever is called
14:02:00 <Samu> maybe that's how i remember
14:02:55 <Samu> releasing mouse on the foundation road
14:03:15 <Wolf01> Anyway, if you "fix" this to build at least the connection roadbit you are welcome
14:06:19 <Samu> building a road towards SW-NE was what was triggering the wrong slope direction, maybe i was releasing on the next tile
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14:07:21 <Samu> terrain is inclined towards the back
14:07:54 <Samu> releasing mouse on the foundation was perhaps already the next tile
14:34:39 <Samu> if I were to implement exclusive transport rights, in which way should I use it
14:34:49 <Samu> the AI currently doesn't have it
14:35:35 <Samu> it's anti-competitive in my view, but i could make it an option
15:43:55 <andythenorth> how to make towns require building materials to grow?
15:48:48 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
15:53:42 <Wolf01> That is a good question
15:54:02 <andythenorth> last time I asked this, Truebrain rage quit :(
15:54:21 <andythenorth> the question is jinxed :)
15:57:46 <Samu> to set cargo goals for towns
15:58:19 <Wolf01> No, he need the same thing present in tropic and alpine with water and food respectively
15:59:11 <andythenorth> at the risk of having this conversation for the 99th time
15:59:21 <andythenorth> GS isn't appropriate
15:59:31 <andythenorth> GS is blind to newgrfs
16:00:01 <andythenorth> oof this always ends in rage quit :)
16:00:43 <Samu> there's some CityBuilder GSs out there
16:04:16 <andythenorth> Samu: unstated assumption, this needs to be in an industry newgrf
16:04:19 <andythenorth> it's not possible :)
16:04:25 <andythenorth> sorry to waste your time
16:05:45 <Samu> is there a TOWN_CUSTOM_GROWTH on newgrfs stuff?
16:07:22 <andythenorth> there is a town effect flag on newgrf cargos
16:11:22 <Samu> AI's has some TownEffect functions
16:16:33 <Samu> i have this little function that determines which cargo type is needed to grow a town
16:16:48 <Samu> it detects FOOD and WATER for sub-tropic
16:16:58 <Samu> and the amount required is 1
16:19:33 <Samu> i thought it was customizable via newgrf changing towns
16:21:14 <andythenorth> there is a newgrf customisation point in cargos
16:24:19 <Samu> have to try some newgrfs... to see what this function comes up with
16:32:14 <Samu> ok, it says it requires FOOD and GOOD, with FIRS 2.1.5 on sub-tropic
16:34:55 <Samu> on temperate, nothing is required on any town
16:36:02 <Samu> on sub-arctic tileset ir requires FOOD, amount 1
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17:58:28 <peter1139> I might have a bit of pizza tonight. It's plain cheese, should I add some toppings?
17:59:25 <Samu> Is there actually a GS that changes town cargo goals at all?
18:01:07 <Samu> I tried some CityBuilder GS and none change towns and total town whatever control
18:01:27 <Samu> at least from an AI point of view, nothing changes
18:04:26 <Samu> what the heck can GS's do then? :(
18:06:51 <Samu> enum TownEffect { TE_NONE, TE_PASSENGERS, TE_MAIL, TE_GOODS, TE_WATER, TE_FOOD } The effects a cargo can have on a town.
18:17:03 <andythenorth> peter1139: add ground pepper
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18:32:33 <Samu> GOOD behaves like water?
18:32:55 <andythenorth> yes but no but yes
18:33:43 <andythenorth> there is no water cargo
18:33:50 <andythenorth> so something has to substitute
18:34:34 <andythenorth> in the new Steeltown economy, Carboon Steel has to have TE_WATER :P
18:37:42 <Samu> you can't change town effects via newgrf?
18:38:17 <andythenorth> it is possible yes
18:38:51 <andythenorth> but there isn't always an equivalent cargo
18:39:22 <Samu> seems that you assign an effect to a cargo
18:39:54 <andythenorth> additionally, it has to be accepted by the houses
18:40:05 <andythenorth> which has some unelated issues
18:40:16 <Samu> water is accepted by an industry
18:40:31 <Samu> but has an effect on towns
18:40:36 <andythenorth> actually yes, accepted by the houses or an industry
18:42:12 <Samu> houses can accept 15 cargoes, i think
18:42:29 <Samu> not sure, but i remember something being increased on them
18:42:46 <andythenorth> by convention, industry and house newgrfs are separate
18:42:57 <andythenorth> and the base set houses have a few limitations
18:43:25 <andythenorth> it is possible to fix in a newgrf though, just work
18:44:49 <Samu> isn't it FIRS that have tourists?
18:47:33 <Samu> jesus what a slow ass computer..
18:51:42 <andythenorth> copper industry in chile needs 400,000 tons of grinding balls every year
18:51:52 <andythenorth> that's a cargo I wouldn't have thought of
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18:53:39 <Samu> launching openttd with newgrfs is super slow on this computer...
18:55:25 <Samu> looks like ECS has done it correctly
18:56:28 <super_spooky> andythenorth: holy smokes chile produces a lot of copper
18:57:20 <Samu> ah, no, they cheat with goods
18:57:35 <Samu> GOOD has a TE_FOOD effect
19:07:19 * andythenorth invents yarn cargo
19:07:31 <andythenorth> nielsm: all these extra cargos at industries are super :)
19:23:37 <Samu> hmm ECS has two WATR cargos
19:24:18 <Samu> both with TE_WATER effect
19:25:57 <Samu> Effect of TOUR is TE_PASSENGERS
19:26:08 <Samu> effect of PASS is TE_PASSENGERS
19:26:27 <Samu> so there can be more than 1 cargo type with the same effect
19:28:40 <Samu> i thought cargo labels had to be unique
19:32:24 <Samu> which of the WATR cargo is the town requiring?
19:34:45 <Samu> very confusing with the Goods too
19:35:46 <Samu> if I deliver Food to the town, will it grow?
19:36:39 <Samu> the script lists 3 cargos needed to grow that town
19:37:07 <Samu> FOOD, GOOD, WATR (9) and WATR (27)
19:37:24 <Samu> the town window displays only 2
19:48:18 <Samu> just tested: delivered FOOD to town and Goods were delivered
19:48:54 <Samu> Goods required became Goods delivered, even though I am transporting FOOD
19:57:30 <Samu> hmm, so in reality, "Goods" in the town window is the town effect TE_FOOD, but why that name?
19:59:42 <Samu> hacks! hacks everywhere!
20:17:15 <peter1139> Anything good on Netflix at the moment?
20:22:49 <Markk> That's quite the subjective thing, I believe.
20:25:25 <peter1139> It is subjective indeed. But my question kinda reads "What do you think is worth watching on Netflix?"
20:25:52 <peter1139> And if you think there isn't anything, of course, pipe up :-)
20:50:23 <Wolf01> I'm watching Pokémon on Netflix when I have nothing else better to do... s/watching/sleeping :P
21:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never watched anything on netflix
21:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that the company that sends you DVDs per mail? :p
21:04:45 <acklen> personally I like the Zoo
21:07:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i made some progress on my road mod, i successfully edited the model in blender, but now i need to find and edit the surface texture...
21:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also, looks like i need to make another model for the connection node
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21:13:15 * andythenorth lost in textile industry stuff
21:14:44 <Samu> TOWN_GROWTH_WINTER is 0xFFFFFFFE
21:15:58 <Samu> static const uint TOWN_GROWTH_WINTER = 0xFFFFFFFE; ///< The town only needs this cargo in the winter (any amount)
21:17:34 <Samu> if the amount is 4294967294, then it is actually 1, ok, I see
21:19:05 <Samu> i looked at town_gui.cpp, it seems to be prepared to accept more than 2 town effects
21:19:55 <Samu> there are 5 town effects, seems ready to display all 5
21:20:29 <Samu> how to make a town require 5 town effects
21:31:38 <Samu> there's also CargoClass, but for towns that's irrelevant
21:54:10 <Samu> oh, CargoClass are are flag kind of enum
21:55:13 <Samu> nowhere in the noai is that even mentioned
22:23:45 <andythenorth> does anyone know what builders yards are for in FIRS?
22:23:48 <andythenorth> they don't do anything
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22:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> weren't they just a sink for building materials?
23:20:46 <andythenorth> I've deleted them
23:22:56 <Samu> andythenorth: which cargo is SCMT, it has a CargoClass of CC_BULK | 4096
23:27:13 <Samu> non-pourable, that's a weird one
23:27:40 <Samu> so you can invent unofficial CargoClasses?
23:32:07 <Samu> scripts also have no access to those cargoclasses
23:32:25 <Samu> unless they test all values
23:45:54 <Samu> also the documentation doesn't even warn that CargoClasses are flag or bitmask
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