IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-06-12
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00:02:37 <peter1138> All Doom mods? No...
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03:24:34 <SimYouLater> Hey. Is anyone here that can help me out with NML coding?
05:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ... will he some day learn that people are probably not here at 3AM=
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07:27:42 <nakki> yeah, people who just pop in for a question at 3am and leave after a couple minutes are amusing
07:28:09 <nakki> and what sort of a schmuck doesn't have his irc client running inside tmux on a server anyways
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09:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> nakki: it would be less concerning if he didn't repeat that every other night
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10:09:15 * andythenorth teddy-bear newgrf dev
10:09:34 <andythenorth> steam/diesel feldbahn is 16/8 (1 tile)
10:09:52 <andythenorth> should electric feldbahn be longer to reflect higher power?
10:10:02 <andythenorth> or is electric vs. steam/diesel just visual?
10:36:35 <FLHerne> I don't think I'd care, tbh
10:37:01 <FLHerne> So, yes, visuals >> anything else
10:37:48 <FLHerne> Realistically, an "efficient" feldbahn is going to be one that doesn't exist because there's a huge ro-ro rail station next to every industry
10:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: gameplay-wise, 1 tile is probably the optimum, longer gets you in trouble with stations.
10:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could offer also a 2-tile version, and merge them with this thing that nobody will ever implement...
11:42:22 <andythenorth> there is that yes
11:46:10 <Corns[m]> Q to devs before i go further with my patch: whats the consensus on pathfinding building tools?
11:46:49 <Corns[m]> I'm wondering if its too much of a gameplay change/ too "powerful"
11:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a consensus
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12:36:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I could do 1-tile electric, but increase capacity per tile?
12:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't make a lot of sense...
12:36:47 <andythenorth> that keeps the vehicle flow the same (station length), but offers more capacity / time
12:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> just increasing power/speed not enough?
12:37:29 <andythenorth> or I could keep 1-tile and just allow the higher HP to translate into more capacity / time
12:37:39 <andythenorth> electric should have some bonus, but not excessive
12:38:02 * andythenorth wonders whether to adopt the variable length trams from HEQS
12:38:09 <andythenorth> it's quite neat, it just fails with autoreplace
12:51:18 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Don't, please
12:51:40 <FLHerne> The larger problem with that is station-refit
12:51:56 <FLHerne> (unless someone solved that and I didn't notice?)
12:52:15 <LordAro> Corns[m]: i'm personally tempted to say that it's too powerful
12:52:23 <LordAro> but as Eddi says, there's no consensus
12:52:34 <LordAro> i'd post about it on the forums and see what the feedback says
12:52:39 <FLHerne> The main use-case for trams is as feeder shuttles, and that's just where refit-to-available is really valuable
12:53:18 <FLHerne> LordAro: I don't think that's a valid argument, tbh
12:53:31 <LordAro> like i said, no consensus :p
12:53:50 <FLHerne> The 'make all the money' approach is to drag-and-drop perfectly straight railway lines across the map
12:54:09 <FLHerne> Ignoring hills and anything else that's in the way
12:54:35 <FLHerne> (because the cost of extra locomotives is trivial compared to the time cost of building decent infrastructure)
12:54:38 <LordAro> the 'make all the money' approach is to put 2 airports down at opposite ends of the map
12:54:55 <FLHerne> Some servers do ban aircraft
12:55:02 <FLHerne> Or have a very low limit
12:55:26 <FLHerne> Canals are slow, expensive and don't naturally go up hills
12:55:28 <LordAro> those servers would probably "ban" such straight railway lines as well
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12:56:05 <FLHerne> No-one is going to be exploiting the autorouter to build giant canals, and even if they do it'll look less stupid than those straight railways
12:56:28 <LordAro> for me, building the routes is a significant part of the game
12:56:35 <FLHerne> LordAro: I mean, you can ban aircraft by setting the limit to 0, in an otherwise-hands-off server
12:56:45 <LordAro> i wouldn't necessarily want to add a "do it for me button"
12:56:49 <FLHerne> And some of the competitive ones do that
12:57:02 <FLHerne> Because they're so blatantly game-breaking
12:57:53 <LordAro> there is no consensus, and i'm not going to complain if someone else decides it is desirable
12:59:40 <FLHerne> I don't think I'd /use/ it, but I have no objection to it existing
13:14:06 <Corns[m]> LordAro: i guess its of a similar magnitude to copy-paste patch?
13:14:26 <LordAro> Corns[m]: that's my feeling on it, anyway
13:15:19 <Corns[m]> I'm curious tho - what would stop a third party client from implementing this and chaining DoCommandP?
13:19:10 <Corns[m]> Oops sorry the messages inbetween didnt load
13:20:55 <Corns[m]> Thank you for your input :) Yeah i guess I'll ask on the forums
13:33:59 <peter1138> Hmm, is it lunch time...
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13:38:41 <andythenorth> so 1-tile feldbahn is more effective for gameplay
13:39:11 <andythenorth> but the motivation here is that long trains of tiny industrial wagons just looks neat
13:40:02 <andythenorth> HEQS longest industrial tram is 5 tiles :P
13:40:05 <andythenorth> might be overkill
13:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not, but i don't know how big that one actually is
13:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> grr... was in buffer
13:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <Corns[m]> LordAro: i guess its of a similar magnitude to copy-paste patch?
13:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it depends on how well you can bend the existing pathfinder into shape
13:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <Corns[m]> I'm curious tho - what would stop a third party client from implementing this and chaining DoCommandP? <-- we have some burst limits for things like terraforming, if needed that can be extended
13:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, simple drag&drop placement will probably suffice for canals, but for rails you'd probably want settings for curve radius and slope distance
13:58:39 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
14:06:10 <Corns[m]> Yeah I was thinking implementing an extra window so that the user can adjust settings, such as whether to build canals on river and ocean tiles, or whether to treat farmland tiles with an increased weight comma or whether to enable / disable Aqua ducks
14:06:27 <Corns[m]> Speech-to-text tried it's best
14:09:05 <Corns[m]> I know that the optimal distance for the hovercrafts ships with passenger service is 600 tiles, so I reckon that's a motivator for needing a Pathfinder tool for canals
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15:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what aqua ducks are, but i think we need them :p
15:02:06 <nakki> recommended listening: Jethro Tull - Aqualung
15:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure i heard that before, but no clue how that sounds
15:10:55 <Samu> round 35 nearly over, 2 matches still running
15:34:21 <andythenorth> peter1138 probably ^
15:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i need a manual for that
15:49:57 <andythenorth> but I am also not musical :|
16:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> these slider thingies are certainly annoying to use. you want to turn them, but it only registers up/down movement
16:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> still haven't found out how to actually make a sound
16:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> is this thing even on?
16:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, now, i got some sound :p
16:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, quite annoying
16:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather use something designed with usability in mind, and not some pseudo-nostalgic technical limitations from 40 years ago
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17:33:27 <andythenorth> I've just never used a drum machine, so the novelty value is high
17:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't quite compare to using actual drums :p
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19:01:59 <andythenorth> supermop_work: yo
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20:17:44 * andythenorth wondering 'why electric feldbahn?'
20:17:53 <andythenorth> compared to steam/diesel feldbahn
20:18:06 <andythenorth> apart from realism
20:32:26 <andythenorth> 200 feldbahn vehicles seems overkill
20:32:46 <andythenorth> 13 wagon/cargo types, 2 power types, 2 lengths, 4 generations
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21:27:17 <V453000> oh wow what happened to the tt-forums style :D
21:30:42 <andythenorth> I am not commenting
21:30:45 <andythenorth> maybe I get used to it
21:31:35 <V453000> idk, it's good enough for me to open it a few times per week :D
21:32:44 <frosch123> o*udge asked for someone to update the style for a new version, about a year ago
21:32:51 <frosch123> so, i guess, noone volunteered
21:33:20 <frosch123> ("a year" is a guess, may as well be "1/2 year")
21:33:56 <frosch123> but it proabably also means that noone will complain during december
21:35:08 <andythenorth> I use silver fountains anyway
21:35:30 <orudge> frosch123: no, there was some help, but a bit more work was needed - I got some more work done, but need to do a bit more still
21:35:55 <orudge> Christmas theme hasn't been updated yet, too - if you're (un)lucky I'll get it done in time ;)
21:36:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: i never log in, so i always get the default theme
21:39:12 <V453000> frosch123: silver is the same cancer that kovarex will use until his death :D
21:39:41 <V453000> I wonder what happens when we do a visual overhaul of our forums
21:40:05 <frosch123> f is mostly black, like the ingame gui
21:40:19 <frosch123> what is silver about that?
21:41:18 <V453000> well our forums also have a silver non-default theme
21:42:04 <frosch123> i think i only logged in once, and then found that someone else had already posted what i wanted to post
21:42:25 <V453000> honestly I only use our forums in bare minimum
21:42:47 <V453000> I prefer reddit where a discussion is a tree and people replying to a thing with any relevancy are under the tree
21:43:14 <V453000> where in a forum it's a topic over another topic, so if you have a FFF about 4 things, there's 10 pages of mixed 4 + number of topics people invented from reading the FFF over those pages
21:50:21 <andythenorth> forums are dead?
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22:10:46 <andythenorth> so wagons for RVs? o_O
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23:37:44 <orudge> The forums should be a little less horrible to look at
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23:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the blue is gone, but the lines and icons are still too bright
23:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> plus a dozen smaller issues...
23:55:19 <orudge> Icons etc need to be addressed
23:55:21 <orudge> and no doubt other tweaks
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