IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-05-20
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10:31:38 <nakki> 11:31 here, so perfect lunchtime
10:31:46 <nakki> although if i was at work, i would've already gone half an hour ago
10:40:18 <peter1138> That still sounds early for lunch.
10:40:41 <nakki> it's a conspiracy by cereal companies to sell more corn flakes
10:41:05 <peter1138> I had toast, so that's a fail.
10:41:47 <peter1138> And a piece of fruit.
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11:30:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #6266: UI Zoom: ugly lists in network windows on double/quad interface sizes with custom fonts https://git.io/fj8Nt
11:33:06 <_dp_> oh, I thought it was fixed long ago...
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14:19:26 <andythenorth> how's French trains going? :)
15:11:13 <peter1138> andythenorth, very well I guess.
15:14:25 <planetmaker> on rails, wheels powered by electric motors :P
15:34:56 * andythenorth wonders about hi-speed railtype
15:34:58 <andythenorth> with curve bonus
15:35:15 * andythenorth must learn to railtype then
15:35:38 <V453000> what do you need to do?
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15:38:09 <andythenorth> that uses existing base set sprites
15:38:14 <andythenorth> but goes faster in curves
15:39:58 <V453000> well just set the multiplier :)
15:40:05 <planetmaker> yeah curve_speed_multiplier
15:40:23 <planetmaker> so probably just redefine ELRL with that single property and that's it
15:40:45 <andythenorth> I'll need a label?
15:41:06 <planetmaker> ah, yes, you want a separate one
15:41:11 <planetmaker> but identically looking?
15:42:06 <planetmaker> probably... difficult. you will need graphics.
15:42:40 <V453000> doesn't the universal railtype newgrf define a new railtype that looks like RAIL ?
15:42:51 <planetmaker> whatever floats your boat. And set it to compatible to the others which might suit
15:43:10 <planetmaker> V453000, maybe... dunno :) would make it easy
15:43:26 <V453000> I think NUTS did that at some point as well
15:45:06 <planetmaker> might actually work if you simply don't define any of the graphical callbacks
15:45:51 <planetmaker> so you just gave the whole NewGRF, and only line 14 needs to be changed
15:46:26 <V453000> I think line 14 only influences depots and stations
15:46:37 <planetmaker> curve_speed_multiplier?
15:46:55 <planetmaker> you mean 15 @ V :)
15:49:02 <planetmaker> If a callback is not implemented or fails, graphics from the fallback railtype (picked via the station_graphics property) will be used instead.
15:49:30 <planetmaker> RAILTYPE_STATION_NORMAL, RAILTYPE_STATION_MONORAIL, RAILTYPE_STATION_MAGLEV
15:49:46 <planetmaker> so... yes, easy :) Much easier than I thought
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18:53:54 <andythenorth> is the title game now zoomed in for everyone? o_O
18:53:58 <andythenorth> or did I break something?
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18:57:42 <LordAro> andythenorth: i feel like someone would've said...
18:57:56 <andythenorth> maybe i'm the only one using UI zoom?
18:59:11 <andythenorth> yeah, 2x UI zoom also zooms the title game
18:59:30 <andythenorth> and on 1x ui zoom, the general breakage is....interesting
18:59:36 <andythenorth> I will screenshot when I get home
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20:06:46 <andythenorth> so how do I make trains run on my new railtype? :)
20:06:52 <andythenorth> do I have to set the railtype on the train?
20:15:14 <planetmaker> or set the compatibilities of the railtype accordingly.
20:16:06 <andythenorth> that won't work, afaict :)
20:16:09 <andythenorth> and doesn't in game
20:16:24 <andythenorth> "Provide a list of rail types that trains of this type are powered on."
20:16:36 <andythenorth> so the label is "UNIV" and my train is "ELRL"
20:17:10 <andythenorth> I need to make the train "UNIV" and set it to also be powered on ELRL?
20:18:29 <andythenorth> hmm, this means all trains need to be UNIV
20:18:48 <juzza1> if you want your train to be ELRL, you need to put UNIV in ELRL's compatible_railtype_list and powered_railtype_list
20:19:00 <andythenorth> but ELRL is defined by base game?
20:19:04 <andythenorth> so I redefine ELRL?
20:25:38 <andythenorth> curve_speed_multiplier 0...65525 ?
20:38:38 <andythenorth> so what's railtypes prop 11 (curve speed multiplier) supposed to do? :)
20:43:47 <V453000> idk what it's supposed to do but, it increases the speed of a curve
20:44:24 <andythenorth> I can set the value to 0 or 255, and the train goes the same speed round the curve :D
20:44:27 <V453000> Well a curve of specific lengh, say, 3 tiles, has a specific maximum speed that trains can travel through it
20:44:54 <V453000> I think it's something like multiplication but in halfsteps or something
20:45:51 <V453000> there was a table somewhere with example values how much each default railtype has
20:46:02 <V453000> but basically, it was something like rail = 1, mono 2, mglv 3
20:46:11 <V453000> so the rest of the 65523 values are useless
20:46:26 <andythenorth> the 65523 is a mistake anyway, I've fixed that
20:46:28 <V453000> hm I don't remember mph
20:46:33 <V453000> but this looks like it's at the curve cap
20:46:47 <andythenorth> so it's 98mph, for any value between 0 and 255 for curve speed
20:46:52 <V453000> well I was just trying to point out that it would be incredibly useful to be able to set lower speeds than RAIL, not just higher
20:46:53 <andythenorth> so the prop is irrelevant?
20:46:59 <andythenorth> or I'm testing wrong?
20:47:04 <V453000> probably testing wrong
20:47:43 <V453000> NUTS seems to only use 0 but for railtypes where it doesn't matter
20:48:14 <andythenorth> I suspect it might just not work
20:48:23 <andythenorth> nobody would ever have noticed
20:48:27 * andythenorth reads openttd source
20:49:06 <V453000> The base speeds relevant for the curve_speed_multiplier are:
20:49:24 <V453000> that would mean rail has value 2, monorail 3, maglev 4
20:50:39 <planetmaker> iirc it is indeed one of those properties which are... not exactly usefully scaled
20:50:56 <andythenorth> docs suggest otherwise
20:51:31 <andythenorth> "base speed advantage" * (2 + "property 11")
20:51:36 <planetmaker> 100,200,300 for rail/mono/mag would be nicer, no?
20:52:24 <V453000> well rather 100 150 200 would be representative
20:53:24 <andythenorth> that calculation on L357 isn't what newgrf docs say?
20:53:34 <andythenorth> max_speed += (max_speed / 2) * rti->curve_speed;
20:53:39 <V453000> I can't see it being used inNUTS, but I didn't realy have a use for it since it can't reduce the speed, so it unfortunately does not conclude that I have found out it's broken
20:54:48 <V453000> if the multiplier for rail is 2 then it's double the base value
20:55:27 <V453000> which I understand as max_speed *2
20:57:18 <V453000> with 1 it would be 1,5 though I guess :)
20:58:02 <andythenorth> trying to figure out L349-350
20:59:05 <V453000> well I tried to set 0 to maglev in NUTS and it did something
20:59:42 <V453000> it looks like it has set it to the same as RAIL has
21:00:16 * andythenorth experiments with 3
21:00:18 <V453000> which does not make sense to me with either the function you pasted or the multiplication that I assumed :D
21:00:51 <andythenorth> nope, fuck all difference with 3 also
21:01:16 <andythenorth> back to drawing pixels?
21:01:42 <V453000> and with 2 I'm getting as much as monorail does
21:03:46 <V453000> well that does make sense, but max_speed is then the base_speed from docs multiplied by 2
21:04:14 <andythenorth> max_speed is given by L350
21:18:35 <andythenorth> V453000: do you get any different curve speeds if you change the prop?
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21:34:46 <andythenorth> it's a dumb pattern
21:34:54 <andythenorth> I find a bit of spec, then it doesn't work, then I'm sad
21:34:58 <andythenorth> I should just not
21:35:09 <V453000> as I said, value 0 gave me rail behaviour, 1 monorail, 2 maglev
21:35:26 <V453000> but values like 3+ are only for super fast trains
21:35:48 <andythenorth> I get no change at all
21:36:05 <andythenorth> I've deleted all
21:36:16 <andythenorth> but it was just your paste from earlier, with curve speed changed
21:36:33 <V453000> did you use railtype ID 2 or 15?
21:36:42 <V453000> elrl might need 2, idk
21:36:50 <andythenorth> I used 14 for elrl
21:36:52 <V453000> well actually that sounds nuts specific and untrie
21:37:04 <V453000> I guess those IDs are just grf-specific
21:37:41 <andythenorth> this was just an idea I had to add a railtype
21:37:45 <andythenorth> but it's TMWFTLB
21:37:55 <andythenorth> and I need to find out why OpenTTD UI is fucked
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22:02:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #7599: UI zoom appearance problems relative to 1.9.1 https://git.io/fj4IV
22:03:43 <peter1138> Some of it is deliberate.
22:03:55 <peter1138> Like the error message window is meant to be wider than taller.
22:06:50 <frosch123> wasn't the titlescreen zoom added recently?
22:07:03 <andythenorth> yeah I didn't know what's intended and what's not
22:07:12 <andythenorth> so I'm filing all of it, and it can be rejected
22:09:19 <LordAro> i'm not aware of it being intentional
22:16:29 <LordAro> must have missed that one
22:16:46 <andythenorth> some of it, I'm probably just too old for change :P
22:17:28 <andythenorth> some of it seems to just be eating my screen
22:20:43 <andythenorth> nom nom screen :P
22:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the title game zoom might clash with some mobile setups?
22:49:47 <peter1138> Which mobile set ups are you thinking of?
22:50:52 <andythenorth> it's probably fine
22:51:34 <andythenorth> it's just lost some of the niceness in places
22:51:37 <andythenorth> and gained in others
22:51:53 <peter1138> andythenorth, don't be so all-or-nothing.
22:52:00 <peter1138> andythenorth, It's clearly a problem in some places.
22:52:17 <peter1138> Just the error message window is absolutely intentional and doesn't look wrong at all.
22:55:24 <andythenorth> I was trying to equivocate :P
22:55:29 <andythenorth> and not make dramas out of nothing :P
22:55:46 <andythenorth> also...I might get used to it
23:02:48 <peter1138> Your TV looks... odd.
23:04:23 <andythenorth> something is missing from my life
23:04:36 <andythenorth> since 2008 and or so I've been coming here and posting "roadtypes!'
23:10:31 <frosch123> wut, you even updated it in 2017 :p
23:11:46 <andythenorth> vehicles can set a multiplier to cargo price factor?
23:12:11 <andythenorth> can't think of much else tbh :)
23:12:12 <frosch123> money related ponies are meh
23:12:42 <andythenorth> it's only because I got obsessed with why cargo aging period doesn't work like I expected
23:12:45 <andythenorth> I agree it's meh
23:13:13 <andythenorth> I put a PR in to fix subtropic generator, but stalebot closed it :D
23:14:35 <frosch123> f somewhat fixed the mapgen, by adding proper previews
23:14:55 <frosch123> and making changing one thing not affect another as well
23:17:13 <frosch123> f kept on copying bugs from ottd, but they also fixed some issues :p
23:17:30 <andythenorth> it's nice that we can keep in sync
23:17:37 <andythenorth> we could add pipe transport :P
23:17:40 <andythenorth> that would be a big pony
23:18:57 <frosch123> we should replace airports with catapults
23:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> when did we last discuss suborbital flight?
23:21:31 <andythenorth> child #1 made a catapult
23:21:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is that just like a tunnel? wormhole?
23:22:19 <andythenorth> more serious than that
23:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: rocket starts somewhere, leaves the map, reappears elsewhere, lands
23:22:46 <andythenorth> how about teleporters?
23:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: severed heads -> rivalling city wall?
23:23:37 <frosch123> modern games have pedestrians
23:23:50 <frosch123> but usually they are animations independent from game logic
23:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> in the 90s, civ 1 and 2 had global warming, then they removed it in 4 and 5 (dunno about 3), and now they brought it back in 6.
23:26:42 <andythenorth> global warming goes in and out of fashion
23:27:08 <andythenorth> it was convenient for hydrocarbon companies to focus on the threat of terrorism :P
23:27:28 <andythenorth> some 'conspiracies' hide in plain sight :)
23:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ... meanwhile the US government is doing everything in their power to create more terrorism to distract from global warming?
23:29:29 <andythenorth> rattling sabres at Iran keeps the coal mines going
23:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even talking about that
23:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> more like, having flying evaporation machines shooting at wedding ceremonies and retroactively saying "we're sure those were all terrorists"
23:32:17 <andythenorth> I think that can be filed under "don't assume conspiracy when fuckup will suffice"
23:32:25 <andythenorth> on the other hand....
23:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it happens too often to be a fuckup
23:32:52 <andythenorth> ...creating a policy environment where this is normalised, that's not accidental
23:33:28 <andythenorth> I think my biggest pony would be having bundles working again :P
23:33:38 <andythenorth> maybe I need to buy planetmaker a cake
23:37:51 <planetmaker> can you ssh? then give me a key and I can arrange it such that your current build process can deploy there. *I think*
23:38:32 <andythenorth> I think Azure can run scripts
23:38:38 <andythenorth> is it safe to give Azure ssh?
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23:47:30 <andythenorth> I will log into Azure this week and have a look how it works
23:47:37 <andythenorth> it's designed to publish artifacts
23:47:40 <andythenorth> but it's a mysterious place
23:50:48 <planetmaker> I looked... it seems the problem is that bundles is nfs-linked to the build system... and no login user exists (yet)
23:52:24 <andythenorth> it might be a good case for a webhook
23:55:14 <andythenorth> so that Azure hits a bundles webhook on completion of a job, with the url in the payload to the artifacts
23:55:14 <andythenorth> but I couldn't find any urls for AP artifacts
23:55:14 <andythenorth> nor how long they exist
23:57:35 <andythenorth> my microsoft account is locked
23:58:15 <andythenorth> I violated the ToS somehow
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