IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-05-09
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01:12:42 <Artea> [00:12:24] [cesar[m] VERSION reply]: matrix-appservice-irc, part of the Matrix.org Network
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08:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in what kind of keyboard layout can you mistype ² for /?
08:59:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] agentw4b opened issue #89: Obsolete form for adding Newgrf to bananas.openttd.org https://git.io/fjCeD
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10:34:18 <Artea> made 4 road coal vehicles
10:35:09 <Artea> dont even can for running
10:41:54 <peter1138> Inflation does go mad after a while :-)
10:42:44 <Artea> takes time to increase profits
10:43:38 <peter1138> You need a NewGRF with ultra-efficient vehicles, but (probably) nobody making NewGRFs is interested in playing with inflation enabled.
10:44:07 <peter1138> (And they tend to focus on 1900 to present)
10:44:13 <Artea> I saw 2 companies like 2 or 3 days before
10:44:38 <Artea> also capped loan sux with inflation
10:45:19 <peter1138> Loan increases with inflation so inflation is largely irrelevant there.
10:45:44 <Artea> but get capped at 818,100,000 euros
10:46:45 <Artea> not sure if is good number or not
10:46:50 <peter1138> When did it stop increasing?
10:47:10 <Artea> but for 1500 years at least
10:47:34 <peter1138> As far as I know, there's no cap beyond the initial max loan setting.
10:48:20 <peter1138> Hmm, tt-forums broken?
10:49:50 <Artea> [11:58:28] <Artea> sad max loan is capped
10:50:08 <Artea> Session Time: Sat Apr 27 00:00:00 2019
10:50:50 <Artea> was when I noticed the max loan cap was there
10:51:00 <peter1138> I meant when in game...
10:51:33 <Artea> it was before 1000 years passed
10:51:34 <peter1138> Maybe inflation stops too, in which case it would make sense.
10:53:03 <peter1138> Yeah, inflation stops after 170 years of gameplay, so that's why your max-loan does not increase. But also your costs are not increasing.
10:53:39 <Artea> I can see why Inflation can sux
10:54:21 <Artea> 170 years is nothing :(
10:54:32 <peter1138> Inflation is there to make the game harder.
10:54:48 <Artea> special when map started at 1984 and 2 companies started at 2040
10:55:05 <peter1138> If it didn't stop, your costs would increase faster than your income for ever, and you'd've given up much sooner.
10:55:22 <Artea> Dinger 200 costs 80M euros
10:55:50 <Artea> luckly some of aircrafts gives me 100M per year
10:56:26 <peter1138> Life time of the aircraft?
10:56:31 <peter1138> Or do you mean per journey?
10:56:47 <peter1138> Are you expecting a vehicle to make back its cost on a single journey?
10:57:14 <peter1138> You spend 80M and get back 100M a year? I don't see the issue.
10:57:34 <peter1138> orudge, tt-forums seems upset
10:57:35 <Artea> depends where I route them
10:57:49 <peter1138> Well yes, you need to give them profitable routes.
10:58:15 <Artea> tt-forums seems to work to me
10:58:42 <Artea> I stopped to make more aircrafts
10:58:52 <Artea> I stuck with 21 aircrafts
10:59:12 <Artea> since town grow too large
10:59:14 <peter1138> Oh. English doesn't work like that.
10:59:18 <peter1138> You stopped making more aircraft.
10:59:36 <Artea> towns are biggers than I ever saw
10:59:37 <peter1138> "Stopped to make" means you stopped doing something, so that you could make...
11:00:20 <Artea> unless I demolish part of towns
11:01:25 <Artea> I need a maker planet to test it out
11:02:32 <Artea> the path is so small :(
11:02:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, the new changes with production (and NRT?) should go in 0.5 NML. anything 0.4.x is just legacy
11:02:57 <planetmaker> should... be made to work with devzone
11:04:29 <Artea> my server needs your pro skills :P
11:06:14 <Artea> AroAI just used all loan money
11:06:26 <Artea> let's see how much time needs to blow that up
11:07:53 <planetmaker> sorry, it will need to work some time without mine... RL hits hard
11:08:04 <Artea> 80 road vehicles in 3 years
11:08:17 <Artea> I hope you get all resolved
11:08:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN requested changes for pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjCfQ
11:09:22 <Artea> the truck profit got increase
12:19:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjc3i
12:20:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjCJp
12:21:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjCUe
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12:35:48 <Xaroth> .. there is a GRF that introduces 'world city names' ... and it named one "Netherlands" :facepalm:
12:38:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjCUc
12:38:14 <planetmaker> outch. Kinda gives away the origin of the author :P
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12:39:32 <planetmaker> to some degree at least ;)
12:42:31 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor updated pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjc3i
12:42:50 <peter1138> Okay, well I'm still none-the-wiser.
12:43:00 <peter1138> But I guess it doesn't matter in the scheme of things.
12:44:00 <peter1138> Hmm, is it possible to remove PR builds from the website?
12:44:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjCU0
12:44:24 <peter1138> I suppose I should look at the website github :p
12:44:50 <peter1138> Hmm, so it's not a commit.
12:47:57 <LordAro> i'm not sure where that file is generated from
12:48:28 <LordAro> it could well be "on AWS"
12:48:43 <LordAro> which i really rather hope someone other than TB has access to
12:48:59 <peter1138> Hmm, did that news-ticker on the opening screen idea get anywhere?
12:51:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7566: Fix #7565: Incorrect cursor used for placing road/tram tunnels. https://git.io/fjCUo
12:51:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7566: Fix #7565: Incorrect cursor used for placing road/tram tunnels. https://git.io/fjnBH
12:51:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7565: [NRT] The 'build tunnel' tool displays the wrong cursor for road and tram https://git.io/fjnWV
12:51:42 <LordAro> does it need backporting? given it was mentioned to be an issue in 1.8
12:53:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7575: Feature: Add industry production graph https://git.io/fjCfQ
12:54:34 <peter1138> It's not an issue in 1.8, it's only since NRT.
12:54:40 <peter1138> I don't know what that comment is about :p
12:56:02 <LordAro> fair enough, i shall ignore :p
12:57:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCUM
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13:09:33 <peter1138> Hmm, nearly lunch time.
13:20:13 <andythenorth> I have failed at lunch and breakfast
13:24:41 <Artea> now my pc can't hold OTTD
13:49:27 <peter1138> I just ate my salad, and a apple fruity bake, and a kiwi fruit.
13:49:34 <peter1138> So I'm... replete for now.
13:55:14 <andythenorth> failed to remember if I ate them
13:57:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCTP
14:01:24 <V453000> if I draw a vehicle in layers
14:01:36 <V453000> can I use a different recolour for each of the layers?
14:01:41 <V453000> I guess I could, but how? :d
14:01:55 <V453000> can I somehow use a switch which reads which layer it's for?
14:03:59 <andythenorth> you can use a switch checking the layer whenever you want
14:04:07 <V453000> do you do that somewhere?
14:04:16 <V453000> iz complicated or just access variable with 0-3 as outcomes?
14:04:25 <andythenorth> the switch is simple 0-3
14:04:36 <andythenorth> my example code would be frigging complicated because $reasons
14:05:07 <andythenorth> hmm, recolour sprites are a callback?
14:06:22 <andythenorth> ok, I don't know if you can check the layer in that callback
14:07:27 <planetmaker> you very likely have access to vehicle variables, do you? And as long as you have at least access to temp storage... it should be feasible
14:07:53 <andythenorth> you can't check current layer in colour_mapping cb afaict
14:08:08 <andythenorth> but there seems to be a recolouring option provided in the graphics cb
14:08:20 <V453000> built in but does that not mean it's the same recolour for all layers?
14:08:56 <andythenorth> a result is returned for each layer, and it looks like recolouring is an option for each result
14:09:34 <V453000> are you talking about the PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT in the layering switch?
14:09:35 <andythenorth> so I am just using "STORE_TEMP(PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT, 0x100)"
14:09:45 <andythenorth> but replace that with a recolour sprite (dunno how)
14:11:24 * andythenorth must to lunch sorry
14:52:22 <supermop_work> so what new flags do i need in unspooled?
14:52:31 <supermop_work> are there new nrt docs?
15:00:09 <supermop_work> rather, is there any new or different functionality i should be aware of? like for town building
15:00:35 <supermop_work> spool.grf is basically untouched since 2017
15:10:14 <andythenorth> docs will get done at some point
15:42:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCIX
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19:06:42 <andythenorth> is it lunchtime?
19:12:23 <V453000> andythenorth: could you link me where you have a switch which layer iz?
19:13:47 <andythenorth> and more in there
19:14:45 <V453000> so 1 2 3 will return layers 1 2 3?
19:15:58 <V453000> sllight side-question: you do not have a default value defined. Is that strictly because you are not stupid and absolutely sure that you only defined 2 layers? I always defiine a default even when it's clearly stupid
19:27:50 <andythenorth> yeah I just am sure I won't need the default
19:28:09 <andythenorth> if it's in default, something is wrong, so no point handling it here
19:28:19 <kiwitree> I found a typo on newgrf specs, could anyone fix it?
19:28:48 <kiwitree> Roadtypes should be feature 0x12..
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19:47:26 <V453000> the question is whether the recolour line is right, but it's exactly pasted from rainbow slugs and itworks there, and yellow shows as expected so that shouldn't be it
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20:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> guys... the office supplies... they achieved nothing!
20:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you people give bad advice. 0/10
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20:19:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCOw
20:19:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjngD
20:20:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCO6
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21:03:32 <peter1138> Heh, you can fix #7573 with fewer changes by just multiplying running cost by 1000 or so first.
21:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but what if that overflows? :p
21:06:10 <peter1138> Then you couldn't afford the engine :D
21:06:44 <peter1138> Hmm, 7573 sorts wagons incorrectly.
21:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> wagons with running costs?
21:07:08 <peter1138> Yes. 0 power, of course.
21:07:08 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if it's finished :)
21:07:19 <andythenorth> it's kind of pretty good when I play OpenTTD
21:07:45 <peter1138> It's never finished. If it was, you'd just go around telling everyone it's unmaintained.
21:07:52 <andythenorth> I have nothing :(
21:08:04 <andythenorth> did we finish the 16 cargo industry docs yet
21:08:40 <andythenorth> I guess nml 0.5 is also needed to be done
21:08:51 <andythenorth> is NRT going in 0.5, or waiting?
21:09:30 <andythenorth> V453000: afaik you can't check layers in colour_mapping
21:09:36 <andythenorth> frosch123 will know though
21:09:36 <glx> if 0 power it sorts by id in 7573 IIRC, maybe it should just use cost in this case but inverting the test
21:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: can you elaborate on what we're looking at?
21:10:58 <frosch123> V453000: colouir_mapping is deprecated when using layers
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21:11:17 <glx> or just sort by cost in normal order, I think cheaper wagon is "better" when there's no power
21:11:19 <V453000> sooo how can I recolour layers independently of each other? :)
21:11:39 <frosch123> you insert a switch before the graphics for each layer
21:11:41 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: wagons consisting of wagon + cargo layers, they should be recoloured by different things
21:11:42 <frosch123> which sets a recoloring
21:12:22 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, i haven't actually looked at layering. it's "too new"
21:12:52 <V453000> wait but how do I do that without colour_mapping? :D
21:12:53 <Wolf01> Hurray, my fritz box arrived, and I gained even 12MBit in download, it's about 50% more of what I had before
21:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> they use fritz boxes outside of germany?
21:13:55 <Wolf01> And "a lot" is not enough
21:14:46 <V453000> frosch123: so a normal sprite can somehow use the recolour tables/things without colour_mapping somewhere?
21:14:58 <V453000> is that PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT?
21:15:04 <V453000> or something around that?
21:17:19 <frosch123> "PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT" means, "use color from colour_mapping", but same for all layers
21:17:44 <frosch123> you can also set PALETTE_USE_DEFAULT for some layers
21:17:56 <peter1138> Why did vehicles gain layers?
21:18:28 <frosch123> to reduce spritecache usage when people combine 8 engiens with 100 cargo types
21:18:35 <frosch123> 108 sprites, instead of 800 sprites
21:18:44 <frosch123> and to support layers with company colour and alpha
21:19:48 <frosch123> it's less cpu expensive than what people do with 3 articulated parts for single wagon
21:20:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder who came up with such crazy ideas...
21:20:19 <frosch123> cets-style wagons are more cpu expensive than sprite layers
21:20:40 <V453000> frosch123: it works! :D
21:20:57 <V453000> thank you very much (: I''ll go think what horrible mess can I make out of this
21:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> also, does 3 parts really matter, if other people make 5 parts?
21:21:36 <V453000> BTW is it possible that I added so many draw switches that a game with 700 trains is using 100% of my 4GHz CPU?
21:21:47 <frosch123> i guess i should adjsut the sprite stack examples
21:22:01 <frosch123> people keep copy&pasting the 4 layer code, when using only 2 or 3 layers
21:22:35 <frosch123> V453000: when you do, give me the save, so i can optimise it
21:22:48 <V453000> ah you mean the layeri recolouring
21:22:49 <frosch123> "not resolving invisible sprites" is on the todo list for long :p
21:23:21 <V453000> anyway the save I just posted somehow became completely unusable in multiplayer and in SP it consistently eats 100% of one core
21:23:58 <V453000> and seems to run at 0.78x speed
21:24:00 <andythenorth> so should I use layers for intermodal containers or not?
21:24:07 <V453000> oh tehre's acategories
21:24:14 <V453000> graphics rendering 10ms :)
21:24:16 <peter1138> Train ticks is at ~ 30ms.
21:24:47 <V453000> so I guess that's caused by the switches?
21:24:48 <frosch123> V453000: that probably doe snot incluide the newgrf time
21:25:06 <V453000> so that should be just pathfinding etc?
21:25:38 <frosch123> currently vehicle sprites are resolved whenever a vehicle moves, indepened of visibility
21:25:52 <frosch123> that's probably good when you zoom out
21:26:12 <frosch123> but it's bad when the map is way bigger than what you can see
21:26:18 <V453000> zooming out seems slower
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21:26:40 <peter1138> Zooming out is slower because it has tons more to draw.
21:26:52 <V453000> graphics rendering grew to 35
21:26:53 <peter1138> (Regardless of layers)
21:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never been able to zoom out without pausing first
21:27:27 <V453000> hm, but what is going on here? 700 trains in total isn't that much
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21:29:00 <peter1138> The framerate accumulator costs about 5-6 ms in this game.
21:29:05 <peter1138> Which is not insignificant.
21:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not the first time people complained that it's eating performance to measure performance
21:30:22 <peter1138> It's usually me complaining, tbh.
21:30:26 <peter1138> Other people have no issue.
21:38:18 <nielsm> it would probably cost less to not use std::chrono::high_precision_timer, since microsoft's implementation seems to be doing more work than necessary
21:38:30 <nielsm> (I don't know about other systems)
21:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i clicked "first unread post" on the MB thread... landed at a post from 2017
21:57:32 <peter1138> Hmm, my Windows build is broken :S
22:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> what else is new?
22:00:30 <peter1138> And... a debug build works. Hmm.
22:02:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCso
22:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so, youtoube... why would you think i want to learn german with amazon's alexa?
22:07:15 <peter1138> Hmm, it's failing on writing to a const... but the code doesn't write to the const.
22:07:25 <peter1138> And the line that's failing is the initialization of it.
22:08:08 <peter1138> Maybe it's just confused.
22:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i unsubscribed from a channel, but the videos still come up in my subscription feed...
22:15:25 <frosch123> usually people complain about the reverse situation :p
22:17:53 <peter1138> Yup, works after a rebuild.
22:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, that's people who only use the main page
22:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and nothing ever shows up on the main page
22:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, except for a dozen random "suggested videos" that are all the same video as the last 5 you watched
22:37:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7484: Codechange: Sprite sorting optimization https://git.io/fjCGO
22:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm leaning towards hating stalebot
22:44:46 <LordAro> how about if we remove the "stale timeout" ? i.e. someone has to deliberately apply the stale label
22:49:59 <LordAro> which i'm not sure is possible, actually
22:50:44 <LordAro> other than setting it to something silly high
22:53:37 <nielsm> don't mark PRs stale, but if they're manually marked "waiting for author" for 30 days they close
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23:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> here's my not-very-well-worked-out-and-probably-fleeting opinion: 1) apply the stale label, 2) don't leave generic comment, 3) don't close
23:02:54 * andythenorth wonders what to do now
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23:08:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjngD
23:09:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCG9
23:13:28 <milek7> well, then 'stale' label means nothing?
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23:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, anyone who cares could filter the stale label
23:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> bonus points if github would allow storing a default search
23:37:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7340: Change: Replace tropic landscape map generator rules https://git.io/fjCZE
23:58:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7572: GDI engine for font glyph rendering as a replacement for FreeType (take 2) https://git.io/fjCZQ
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