IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-04-25
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00:03:11 <Artea> how it goes and loan and such
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00:33:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
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05:09:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
06:44:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
07:44:03 <peter1138> Fixed those issues in show coverage. Not particularly happy with how I did one of them :/
08:17:58 <nielsm> is there really not a "ctrl state changed" flag anywhere?
08:34:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjsZ7
08:35:45 <nielsm> the station window is geting really crowded with buttons tho
08:36:09 <nielsm> would really like to either make icons for some of them, or combine them in some way
08:36:23 <nielsm> (or maybe move some to another row/position)
08:45:43 <peter1138> I couldn't see one for state changed, no.
08:46:10 <peter1138> Ooh, approved. I'd like to fix up those fixes first though :-)
08:49:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjsZ7
08:49:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
08:52:12 <peter1138> Heh, the full CZTR set is massive... wow.
08:52:20 <peter1138> 32bpp 4x does that, I guess :)
09:00:16 <nielsm> how about moving things around like that?
09:01:27 <nielsm> move the "query" buttons to a separate line, keep the "action" buttons at the bottom
09:01:38 <nielsm> and make accepts/ratings a more clear toggle/"tab"
09:08:24 <peter1138> Good idea. Separate PR?
09:11:19 <peter1138> Well, only change in the 7446 update is I squashed the fixes and added a comment about ctrl state.
09:12:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjsn4
09:14:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
09:21:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7498: Change: Consider any cargo with passenger town effect for passenger-type subsidies. https://git.io/fjsn2
09:48:40 <Wolf01> V, if a server is lagging in F, and it's not the internet connection for sure, is that because the server itself can't keep up?
09:51:12 <V453000> lagging as in an update takes longer than 16.6 ms?
09:51:39 <Wolf01> Skipping frames continuously, trying to drop players
09:51:57 <V453000> well honestly idk, but try to see how long an update takes
09:52:12 <V453000> but if it's certainly not connection then I guess it's cpu load :)
09:52:45 <Wolf01> Maybe trying with a headless linux could help instead of windows dedicated
09:53:26 <Wolf01> But the server maintainer needs to find out a 64bit machine for linux :P
10:00:35 <nielsm> okay let's try this, maybe the changed UI works in first attempt???
10:02:36 <nielsm> "close airport" and "coverage" buttons look a little tight, I want to add some padding to them
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10:11:43 <peter1138> Yeah, they were not equal width before cos not enough space.
10:11:50 <Wolf01> The OTTD UI always bothered me, too many buttons in different places, the bottom 3 buttons should be in a dropdown in the title bar, maybe coverage too, as they aren't related to UI change
10:12:49 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window https://git.io/fjsc0
10:13:02 <nielsm> agree there are too many buttons
10:13:17 <nielsm> this is a low effort attempt to make it less bed
10:15:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window https://git.io/fjscz
10:16:29 <peter1138> I... didn't update widgets did I? o_O
10:16:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window https://git.io/fjscw
10:17:11 <peter1138> I've never actually seen a GS tutorial anyway..
11:16:08 <Talmir> I have a weird question. I am a software developer and like to tinker with various game related topics in my free time. I am trying to find out how the game generates its towns, and wish to make a rought version of it for a personal project of mine (a indirect town sim where you make abstract decisions that help the town grow or shrink depending)
11:17:15 <Talmir> I have been trying to find information on this on the wiki but came up empty. From reading the source code I think (probably wrong) that the game generates a random distribution of points, and then used kdtrees to form the road system, am I on the right track?
11:17:27 <Talmir> Ahh, didnt see the reply. I will look there, thanks
11:17:54 <nielsm> there's a couple different rulesets for how roads are constructed
11:18:35 <nielsm> but basically (as far as I know) towns are constructed in steps, each step starts at the town centre and random walks the road network and at some point decides this is where to expand at
11:18:42 <nielsm> and then builds a new house or new road at that point
11:19:24 <Talmir> I see :) Is a new "walker" spawned every x tiles (intersections) to make the grid like layout?
11:19:52 <nielsm> the grid layouts are just dumb modulo checks based on distance to town centre
11:20:02 <Talmir> I felt it looked too orderly for it to be a random walker function :)
11:20:17 <Talmir> I see, I may have been overthinking this then :D
11:20:37 <nielsm> in the scenario editor, try building some towns with each of the four layouts
11:20:42 <nielsm> original, improved, 2x2, 3x3
11:22:45 <Talmir> Cool :) Thanks for the help. This feels pretty obvious to me right now. I was way overthinking this.
11:44:58 <peter1138> Basically it's more adhoc than you imagined :)
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11:49:27 <Talmir> yeah, but in a good way :) I was afraid that it'd be way over my head. This I can work with. I imagine there are many more rules under the hood here that help make it look good, but its a good starting point for me , thanks guys :D
11:50:33 <andythenorth> moar and better towns? :P
11:52:00 <Talmir> yeah :) I was asking how the towns were generated, had some crazy imaginings in my head of random distributions and kdtree partitionings, happy I asked here before going off on my own and spending the next month making anything usable for my side project
11:52:22 <nielsm> thing is, towns grow slowly and the world changes around them
11:52:28 <nielsm> so they can't have any kind of grand plan
11:52:59 <nielsm> and if initial generation and later expansion used different rules you'd have essentially double work on code maintenance
11:53:21 <andythenorth> I was thinking of lolz things
11:53:33 <andythenorth> like random rulesets for 'try to go uphill'
11:53:36 <andythenorth> or 'follow water'
11:54:59 <andythenorth> these HEQS trams are 3 tiles or 5 tiles long :P
11:56:01 <nielsm> 5 tiles is too much imo, 3 is okay, but more than 3 is not good
12:00:29 <Talmir> I would looove a modular airport :) The current ones feel a bit clunky. You place a small one at the start and later when it is time to upgrade it it is a pain in the ass to do
12:01:31 <andythenorth> I don't mind airport yak shaving
12:01:47 <andythenorth> but OpenTTD is mostly about tinkering to fix congested routes
12:01:55 <andythenorth> so modular airports adds a whole new level of that
12:03:30 <peter1138> andythenorth, station coverage display got merged!
12:04:14 <LordAro> nielsm: dare i suggest that such thoughts should be put on the wiki somewhere?
12:04:15 <andythenorth> it's the most well-crafted addition in years :P
12:04:17 <peter1138> NRT is pretty ready except people keep finding bugs ;p
12:04:27 <andythenorth> ship all the bugs
12:04:32 <andythenorth> then we have to live with them
12:05:03 <peter1138> nielsm, with your patch is it possible to have neither accepts nor ratings visible?
12:09:10 <nielsm> somehow I was actually logged in on the wiki
12:09:17 <peter1138> It'll get lost, but less lost than a textfile elsewhere.
12:09:20 <nielsm> so I didn't have to faf with that for 15 minutes first
12:11:35 <peter1138> Oh wow, I didn't forget to export widgets.
12:21:18 <peter1138> Modular airports would definitely be nice.
12:21:27 <peter1138> Ability to convert existing airports to such also.
12:21:43 <peter1138> (And then the ability to remove those stupid 'new' layouts)
12:21:56 <andythenorth> can you keep the ones
12:22:02 <andythenorth> where the big one has less throughput
12:22:06 <andythenorth> than the small one
12:22:16 <andythenorth> distant-join airports? :P
12:22:21 <peter1138> Nah, if all airports are modular, then you can remove the definitions and move them to newgrf.
12:22:44 <peter1138> You can still build those layouts from modular parts, or add a newgrf that specifies such a layout.
12:23:00 <peter1138> Or something like that.
12:24:06 <peter1138> Hmm, squirrel-based map generator?
12:28:05 <nielsm> structured the modular airports page somewhat more
12:28:17 <peter1138> Strnage idea, "infinite" map by making it wrap around...
12:28:32 <nielsm> why is the margin above headings so huge in the wiki
12:28:51 <peter1138> Another strange idea, sparse maps (Minecraft style) generated as needed :p
12:29:23 <nielsm> actually padding-top is the big value it seems
12:29:51 <andythenorth> you only get to see 25% of map at start
12:30:22 <peter1138> Not a horrible idea.
12:30:35 <peter1138> Want to build a long route? Build some smaller routes first.
12:30:37 <nielsm> "you have discovered a new town! they demand tribute to allow your railroad to continue. pay £25M, or wait 3 days (real time)"
12:30:47 <peter1138> Random starting position...
12:30:53 <peter1138> Sounds like a gamescript.
12:31:04 <nielsm> railroad tycoon style "can only connect to existing network"
12:31:07 <peter1138> Triremes lost at sea!
12:31:36 <peter1138> Hmm, that head-to-head mode that was once implemented.
12:31:44 <nielsm> andythenorth: this is where Regions come in again :)
12:47:15 <nielsm> may as well put that there too
13:13:12 <peter1138> Hmm, might investigate that deep-sea patch again at some point
13:15:30 <Wolf01> Hmmm, shower, then brain standby until this night
13:17:48 * _dp_ just made a python thingy that connects to a cb server and claims town
13:23:13 <_dp_> wanted some automation to catch server crash
13:23:21 <_dp_> but already catched it myself
13:23:39 <_dp_> though it seemed fun so I did the thing anyway xD
13:53:42 <planetmaker> nielsm, terrain types: (grass, rough, rocky) * (temperate / arctic / tropical), desert, swamp. Water can be a terrain type, but just could be an uint which defines a height below which there is water
13:54:23 <planetmaker> With water I'd actually prefer the same / similar implementation as with snowline height.
13:55:00 <planetmaker> as it would allow interesting game play with rising or receeding water levels
13:57:07 <planetmaker> additional terrain types maybe: semi-arid, tundra, glacier, rock outcrop
13:57:54 <andythenorth> TUND, ARID, NUKE
13:57:57 <planetmaker> TTT. terrain translation table :P
13:58:05 <andythenorth> the last one is post-apocalypse
14:02:19 <Xaroth> It would be interesting to have height levels below the water level
14:02:55 <Xaroth> makes tunneling under water more interesting as well.
14:04:23 <planetmaker> exactly. And would allow terraforming under water. And bridge building interesting, too, taking into account maximum bridge heights
14:04:50 <planetmaker> terraforming = changing heights
14:04:53 <nielsm> are we talking RCT terrain again?
14:04:55 <Xaroth> maybe required depth levels for boats
14:05:04 <planetmaker> *that* is then possible, too
14:05:23 <Xaroth> heavy barges requiring deeper water than hovercrafts
14:05:45 <andythenorth> we should do things that are more lolz
14:05:51 <andythenorth> also obvs. some water should ice up
14:06:06 <Xaroth> or different water levels
14:06:09 <planetmaker> hovercraft, coastal = depth 1 (as now). big ones depth 2 or so :)
14:06:22 <nielsm> inland lakes with depth would be nice yes
14:06:25 <andythenorth> also some vehicles that modify terrain :P
14:06:34 <planetmaker> different water levels like lakes would continue to work like rivers: shallow at same level as land
14:06:35 <Xaroth> connect them to the sea and they drain out.
14:06:48 <andythenorth> snowplough, dredger, etc :P
14:07:00 <planetmaker> sea-ice would be interesting :)
14:07:49 <planetmaker> and then the sea level rises and floods everything
14:13:45 <_dp_> dig too deep and horde of demons destroys your network xD
14:16:44 <planetmaker> don't mix that with the grease lake
14:17:48 <planetmaker> but... lava or cliff could be possible terrain types, too
14:22:00 <Wolf01> <_dp_> dig too deep and horde of demons destroys your network xD <- mines release the balrogs
14:25:09 <peter1138> Well there was a patch for deep water already.
14:25:21 <peter1138> I think it was pre-MHL though, so less feasible.
14:26:43 * _dp_ is seriously thinking of doing tower defense GS for openttd
14:28:41 <_dp_> making a horde of monsters would be a bit tricky...
14:29:21 <peter1138> Can GS spawn disasters?
14:30:07 <nielsm> a giant swarm of UFOs arriving at once
14:30:09 <planetmaker> I don't think so ... a short coming :) We need NewGRF disasters or so... or GS disasters
14:30:12 <peter1138> GS-controlled disasters should be a thing.
14:30:56 <nielsm> need GS industry control...
14:31:07 <planetmaker> GS industry control is somewhat feasible
14:31:32 <planetmaker> delete entities. Easily done with GS
14:32:01 <peter1138> But spawning existing disasters / disaster vehicles should be possible.
14:32:10 <nielsm> make a way for GS to supply sprites and create new disaster vehicles, and plot a path for them
14:32:24 <nielsm> and then receive events when the vehicle reaches points on the path
14:32:34 <peter1138> With new bits like specific target for UFOs.
14:32:56 <peter1138> GS to supply sprites? hmmmmmm sounds like a NewGRF thing to me.
14:33:52 <nielsm> well if you want a custom disaster vehicle with GS programming the GS has to knw about it
14:34:10 <nielsm> then have GS that can depend on a newgrf so that newgrf is always loaded when the GS is
14:34:44 <peter1138> Well, at least some way for a GS to reference a specific type of disaster vehicle, if it's present.
14:35:10 <peter1138> Then the GS can bug the end user to enable the NewGRF, rather than adding new "force this newgrf to load" functionality
14:36:04 <peter1138> But that's getting a bit ahead :p
14:36:20 <peter1138> Also without vision :p
14:36:28 <peter1138> Maybe we need whatever it was TB was working on.
14:36:34 <DorpsGek> peter1138: truebrain was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> if that is the excuse, I am done
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15:04:02 <peter1138> nielsm, /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/misc_gui.cpp:1006:15: error: 'DrawWidget' overrides a member function but is not marked 'override'
15:05:12 <peter1138> nielsm, and possibly others.
16:02:59 <nielsm> wait I didn't touch that?
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17:03:32 <peter1138> nielsm, does not build at the moment.
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17:05:43 <peter1138> nielsm, CI checks if it can rebase, but doesn't check if that rebase will compile.
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17:07:21 <peter1138> Actually I think it's just github checking if it can rebase.
17:08:08 <nielsm> doesn't the CI also rebase before compiling? or was that only the old?
17:09:20 <rubenwardy> You don't hash passwords?
17:09:48 <rubenwardy> or just on the server side
17:10:10 <rubenwardy> you should look into the Secure Remote Password protocol
17:10:20 <rubenwardy> Minetest uses it to protect players from servers
17:10:29 <nielsm> it's salted md5, easy to bruteforce if you want to
17:10:30 <rubenwardy> because most people are stupid, and reuse passwords
17:10:46 <rubenwardy> although, tbh "company password" sounds more like a key than a password
17:11:09 <nielsm> yes it's not supposed to be secure
17:11:11 <rubenwardy> like, "enter the key to join the server" on older games
17:11:15 <nielsm> it's to protect against griefing
17:11:24 <nielsm> not to protect your personal information
17:11:26 <rubenwardy> SRP is good for user account passwords
17:29:11 <LordAro> nielsm: yeah, it did that briefly with the jenkins CI, but everything got split up for Azure
17:33:12 <Samu> Round 8 got infrastructure maintenance costs enabled, coupled with very easy costs, terrain, settings
17:33:33 <Samu> it's funny to see well established AIs bankrupting
17:34:13 <LordAro> andythenorth: no, dog
17:34:38 <Samu> I wonder how my AI will perform
17:34:46 <Samu> it has no code handling that setting
17:35:01 <Samu> i think it will bankrupt too, if it starts spamming helicopters
17:35:08 <Samu> has a tendency to mass helis
17:44:29 <Samu> maybe terrain being very flat was a big help
17:45:10 <Samu> at the very end it started making helicopters, and i was starting to see company value not increasing... became stale
17:45:28 <Samu> but still i was impressed, i was honestly expecting bankrupt
17:50:56 <peter1138> Which mad person plays with toyland? o_O
17:53:56 <Samu> every 4 rounds, starting from round 4, it's toyland
17:54:23 <Alberth> toyland has such nice industry chains
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17:56:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7418: Fix: Validate control-codes in NewGRF strings https://git.io/fjsEH
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18:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: bonus points if you switch to original toyland instead of opengfx :p
18:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish people would stop putting such stuff in there
18:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't someone want to split that table into basic/advanced/fantasy cargos?
18:23:00 <andythenorth> it needs to be one table
18:23:04 <andythenorth> it only serves one purpose
18:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i fear it was me
18:23:13 <andythenorth> and that's to check the label isn't used already
18:23:23 <andythenorth> I guess I could use browser find for that though
18:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i gave up because editing a table like this was... not good
18:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> like, inserting a new column
18:23:35 <andythenorth> the table is hateful to edit in wiki
18:23:39 <andythenorth> but it's wiki so eh :(
18:23:51 <andythenorth> "nobody needs to learn html"
18:24:02 <andythenorth> just all these stupid frigging non-html languages
18:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> html wouldn't solve my problem
18:24:10 <andythenorth> pretending not to be markup, but they are
18:24:22 <andythenorth> wiki, md, rst, bbcode, redmine blah blah
18:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> an excel import/export
18:26:33 <frosch123> juzza1: someone who ragequit
18:26:50 <andythenorth> but doesn't everyone rage quit?
18:26:53 <frosch123> forum drama, not irc drama
18:27:07 <Samu> it's funny how Rondje manages to win
18:27:07 * andythenorth waits for TB to un-ragequit
18:27:19 <frosch123> ragejoin sound scary
18:27:22 <Samu> basically, towns grow and end up connected to each other
18:27:48 <Samu> it only takes a really long time to happen
18:27:53 <andythenorth> I have definitely ragejoined stuff in my lifetime
18:28:08 <frosch123> sounds like politics
18:28:42 <andythenorth> I did actually ragejoin a political party a few years
18:31:44 <Alberth> so many new trains, I should play openttd again
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18:38:11 <Samu> trAIns vs SnakeAI was real close, 100% vs 97%
18:38:23 <Samu> snakeAI did well with aircraft
18:38:41 <Samu> bankrupted the first time though, but then restarted better
18:43:16 <supermop_work> andythenorth: had to ragequit mensa
18:43:38 <Hazzard> I had a feature idea, a "go to depot and renew vehicle" order
18:43:43 <andythenorth> supermop_work: mega lolz
18:43:51 <andythenorth> Hazzard: what does it do?
18:44:48 <Hazzard> It would renew the vehicle, rebuying the engine so the age goes back to 0
18:44:58 <Hazzard> for getting high station ratings
18:45:00 <andythenorth> write a GS to do that
18:45:08 <andythenorth> "write a GS to do that"
18:47:02 <Hazzard> Gamescripts need to be shared with all clients in multiplayer?
18:47:08 <Hazzard> (just want to make sure I understand)
18:53:14 <andythenorth> I was trolling sorry
18:59:35 <Hazzard> Would a gamescript not work though? :P
19:01:42 <Hazzard> seems like these GSes are mainly alternate game modes
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20:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> while i'm reordering this cargo table, do i just plain remove all cargos which do not mention a GRF they are contained in?
20:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> we should have some hard rule that you can only include cargos if your industry set is in a usable state
20:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> to have a handle against people who just add their ideas...
20:07:27 <andythenorth> you can be the guardian of that page :)
20:08:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a horrible idea :p
20:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i'll remove them for now...
20:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> now, next i wanted to split the FIRS cargos in basic and advanced... do you have some table i could use for reference?
20:18:46 <andythenorth> release or push?
20:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: any objections if i move YETI into the "fantasy/scifi" section?
20:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the cargo, i mean
20:21:40 <V453000> oof that's a lot bigger than I remember it
20:21:54 <V453000> how much of it is andy's fault
20:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it's become unwieldy
20:22:21 <V453000> move yetis where ever you want :) I don't really care tbh
20:22:59 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i want to add a "fantasy/scifi setting" for things like toyland, mars, wasteland, etc.
20:23:35 <V453000> /me is messing with articulated nonsense
20:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds annoying :p
20:24:52 <V453000> worse part will be when I want to visually switch between 2x4 and 8 unit vehicles
20:25:01 <V453000> need to do a more wtf articulation :D
20:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: like the HEQS trams?
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20:25:53 <V453000> I'm not sure what HEQS trams do
20:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: they change length and hide some articulated parts
20:26:43 <V453000> wait you can change length?
20:26:58 <V453000> I thought you can't do that
20:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yeah, if you forbid refitting at stations, you can change length based on which refit
20:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can't change the number of articulated parts
20:28:02 <V453000> I might just make a 5-part 8/8 instead without hax
20:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that table does not show the economies where the cargos are used?
20:28:27 <V453000> with length of units 1-2-2-2-1 I get 8 in total and centers in the middle, and in the 4/8 halves' centers
20:29:52 <V453000> I think I had that functional in one of my prototype newgrfs
20:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so you either show a sprite with x-x-A-x-x or x-B-x-B-x?
20:30:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: click on the name
20:30:14 <andythenorth> it's an interwebs :)
20:30:28 <V453000> the only problem this causes is increased speed on curves, but in this case that shouldn't matter much
20:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: grmbl
20:31:02 <V453000> I wanted to apply the same idea to all of NUTS wagons and merge all wagons into 1... but I can't do that unless I can fix the curve length speeds
20:31:02 <andythenorth> you can compile it yourself and modify the table :P
20:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i need to make a JOIN on those interwebz
20:31:15 <andythenorth> I can't do it for you now
20:31:26 <andythenorth> in fact this is all outdated anyway
20:31:44 <V453000> andy's vehicle lengthening sounds interesting, I wonder if I could fix it that way
20:31:44 <andythenorth> I unfortunately moved FIRS to github
20:31:56 <andythenorth> so all docs publishing is lost
20:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't matter, it's a wiki, it's meant to be outdated :p
20:32:06 <andythenorth> FIRS docs are outdated :P
20:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: fwiw, i don't think andy understands the lengthening :p
20:32:39 <andythenorth> I understand the nfo
20:32:52 <andythenorth> the specific rules were beyond my capability :P
20:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if i still have that file
20:33:24 <V453000> XD well the lengthening doesn't help my case as the curve lenght is mostly decided from number of units in some length if I understand that correctly
20:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> curve speed is a wtf
20:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs to be fixed separately, i never worried about it
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20:35:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you had ascii art :P
20:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't find it
20:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> other annoying thing, your table is sorted on name, not label :p
20:46:31 <andythenorth> it has javascript sort no?
20:47:06 <andythenorth> I should not have moved FIRS to github
20:47:08 <andythenorth> it was a mistake
20:48:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: now you can't blame hg anymore?
20:49:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah that table no sort :P
20:49:32 <andythenorth> also why do you need the economy? o_O
20:50:16 <andythenorth> is there some way I could slave hg to github?
20:50:37 <andythenorth> so that I can pull changes into the hg repo?
20:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like you took a few wrong turns you need to back out of :p
20:51:18 <andythenorth> is this what AWS Lambdas are for?
20:51:58 <andythenorth> does anyone remember when web publishing was easy?
20:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i can't find "Packaging" in the wiki table
20:52:11 <andythenorth> you just had an sftp server, and apache in front of it
20:52:21 <andythenorth> now all of that is impossible, because cloud
20:52:45 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: MSNP
20:54:37 <andythenorth> wonder if I can serve FIRS docs from my home internet?
20:54:53 <andythenorth> I could buy a raspberry pi or something
20:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't github have some builtin docs publishing?
20:57:53 <andythenorth> it has a very specific implementation of github pages
20:58:02 <andythenorth> which does one thing and one thing only
20:58:32 <andythenorth> and is oriented to publishing a single revision of a website
20:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> remember when you could make websites with HTML?
20:58:38 <andythenorth> preferably compile with jekyll
20:58:55 <andythenorth> Everything Has Gone Wrong
21:00:02 <V453000> does any other cargo than GOOD use the "automatically-double-vehicle-capacity" nonsense?
21:01:04 <V453000> seriously that thing is weird
21:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sugar cane is not a thing anymore?
21:02:32 <frosch123> V453000: 2x goods, 2x mail, 4x pax
21:02:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not currently
21:02:58 <andythenorth> will return probably
21:04:10 <V453000> I'm not getting x2 on mail
21:04:20 <V453000> didn't check out the rest
21:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that picture in the forums, looks like you didn't set the 32px flag correctly?
21:12:28 <frosch123> hmm, i may have to build a second rocket silo
21:12:35 <frosch123> but it would have so much downtime
21:15:33 <V453000> I didn't know that flag existed
21:15:50 <V453000> does the flag make it draw the same way as on horizontal diagonals?
21:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> in properties somewhere?
21:18:48 <andythenorth> is there a flag?
21:19:03 <V453000> tbh I'm a bit sceptical it will actually look better
21:19:21 <frosch123> V453000: "train_width_32_px=1;" somewhere at the top after the grf{}
21:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's a grf-wide flag
21:21:29 <V453000> that's much easier than I expected :P
21:22:02 <andythenorth> train_width_32_px = 1;
21:22:06 <andythenorth> very horse already
21:22:46 <V453000> yeah I guess that looks more proper
21:23:36 <andythenorth> so how can I publish some static html + images etc to a public web address?
21:23:54 <andythenorth> needs to be in directory structure corresponding to commit revs
21:24:14 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> so all docs publishing is lost <-- why don't you publish the docs anymore on coop bundles server?
21:24:15 <andythenorth> build is in Azure Pipelines
21:24:32 <andythenorth> there's no way to?
21:24:48 <andythenorth> unless I have hg slaved to git?
21:24:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: because apparently he's unable to unplug the old build process and plug the new repo location into it
21:24:51 <andythenorth> and have jenkins do it
21:25:01 <andythenorth> well it has to be done on AP no?
21:25:12 <andythenorth> but I don't really understand AP
21:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's no reason why jenkis couldn't pull from github
21:26:08 <andythenorth> at work I'd just give jenkins the repo address
21:26:18 <andythenorth> but it's all configured to expect that already
21:26:57 <andythenorth> jenkins seems quite broken currently, I don't know how to fix it
21:27:54 <planetmaker> that broken is your build script... it failed on some *** [generated/graphics] Error 1
21:28:01 <planetmaker> which is code you wrote
21:28:04 <V453000> =D apparently my side-views of maglev wagons are not drawn for width_32 :D
21:28:18 <planetmaker> it's ugly to have these zillions of profiling python lines there... but they're harmless
21:28:55 <andythenorth> so how do I fix it?
21:29:10 <planetmaker> hm, chameleon not found
21:29:14 <andythenorth> where are the images for the jenkins VMs kept?
21:29:21 <planetmaker> 00:06.798 ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'chameleon'
21:29:23 <andythenorth> or are they configured with ansible or something?
21:29:37 <planetmaker> no. It's ugly hand-crafted cruft
21:30:46 <andythenorth> the sort-of-plan was to move grfs to github and azure pipelines
21:30:50 <andythenorth> but then TB ragequit
21:31:20 <planetmaker> so, seems chameleon was not installed when python was upgrade
21:31:36 <andythenorth> so should we switch plan, and make coop stuff more alive?
21:31:48 <andythenorth> or jump to 3rd party things nobody understands?
21:32:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: using hosted stuff works for standard stuff
21:32:17 <frosch123> it works fine for git repos and building c++ applications
21:32:18 <andythenorth> it's a bit scary that all of openttd build is now on AP
21:32:38 <frosch123> but i think building grf may be too much off the road
21:32:40 <planetmaker> the only way I really see make coop stuff more alive is to have a 2nd server where I can re-install all stuff from scratch. And when that's done, move the whole lot back to the current server (the current contract is nice as in cheap IPv4 addresses... and server is ok)
21:33:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: building grfs on AP was pretty quick, once I understood the horrible UI
21:33:23 <planetmaker> unfortunately it seems I fried my old PC... so I don't have it as the option I initially planned to use it :|
21:33:24 <andythenorth> it's also really slow, because it reinstalls all deps for ever build
21:33:56 <planetmaker> so... you build grfs on azure?
21:33:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: is it really? every grf would have to do that
21:34:16 <frosch123> you need packaged stuff, which will get harder with nml bundles and nrt and stuff
21:34:19 <andythenorth> well that is the problem
21:34:38 <andythenorth> I got it working in about 2 days
21:34:47 <andythenorth> but not in a way that most authors would ever be able to do
21:34:56 <planetmaker> well. Now make it generic that g30rge can use it :)
21:34:59 <andythenorth> it requires a lot of understanding of github and AP
21:35:10 <andythenorth> apparently it can all be templated in GH
21:35:25 <andythenorth> but then I think TB over-committed, which only ends in maintainer overload + quit
21:35:49 <andythenorth> what's the least we could do, besides 'nothing'?
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21:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> regexp of the day: "([^"])
21:40:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: so what is bundles?
21:40:50 <andythenorth> the implementation
21:41:06 <planetmaker> bundles? It's a disk with ssh access
21:41:19 <planetmaker> and a webserver attached to it
21:41:56 <planetmaker> though... on devzone it is mounted directly
21:42:10 <andythenorth> how does it handle creating the version dirs?
21:42:21 <planetmaker> it's done by jenkins
21:42:57 <planetmaker> it's part of the compilation / deployment script each project brings. There's a default which works with hg
21:43:12 <planetmaker> which is used when no build script is provided
21:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> {| class="wikitable <-- is that weird syntax, or just missing a "?
21:44:25 <planetmaker> actually... not there. hm
21:45:33 <andythenorth> so how is nml getting built by jenkins?
21:47:56 <planetmaker> it is built by that script. I just wonder how the deployment on bundles works :P
21:48:07 <planetmaker> that script and the one without the 'post' in the name
21:50:09 <planetmaker> and... I press 'build' because of hooks or so
21:54:40 <andythenorth> so is jenkins just connfigure to poll GH for nml?
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22:12:38 <nielsm> I maybe ought to look at some more of those reported kdtree bugs in detail...
22:19:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7530: Crash in kdtree.hpp when removing track in development version https://git.io/fjs2p
22:20:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth, basically yes
22:21:45 <Eddi|zuHause> how, if i add one column, i have to adjust colspan by 2?
22:25:17 <andythenorth> because everything is awful
22:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there must be a mistake somewhere, but i don't see it
22:28:10 <andythenorth> html should be generated
22:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel a bit uneasy to just change this page, instead of making some temporary review version...
22:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the orginal colspan is already wrong
22:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ah well... here we go
22:38:24 <LordAro> nielsm: i had to run the game for a long time (>300 years) until the crash occurred
22:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i seem to have missed the alloy steel and stuff
22:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a bit too strong purble
22:39:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: your section titles make no sense
22:39:09 <frosch123> basic cargos: present when no newgrf is used
22:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that might need some iteration :)
22:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> probably some more FIRS cargos that should be moved
22:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but that might have been a problem with the outdated docs
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22:42:40 <andythenorth> where's kill bill gone? :P
22:42:46 <nielsm> eh I'll do that then...
22:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm done with this for today, need something to free my brain
22:46:07 <andythenorth> it's probably better
23:00:24 <peter1138> Didn't I have a rant about that stupid 32px thing the other day? :P
23:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i wasn't going to bring that up :p
23:03:55 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast commented on issue #7530: Crash in kdtree.hpp when removing track in development version https://git.io/fjsaV
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23:56:20 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7542: Fix #7255: Prevent crashlog corruption by only printing the 20 most recent news messages https://git.io/fjsVs
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