IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-04-17
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02:26:20 <Samu> it didn't crash, and im already low on free memory
02:59:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed issue #7125: Convert singleplayer game to multiplayer server https://git.io/fhi1r
03:14:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc opened pull request #7519: Add: Add .gitignore Exception for VSCode IDE Files https://git.io/fjYV2
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03:39:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7519: Add: Add .gitignore Exception for VSCode IDE Files https://git.io/fjYV7
04:29:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc closed pull request #7519: Add: Add .gitignore Exception for VSCode IDE Files https://git.io/fjYV2
04:29:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc commented on pull request #7519: Add: Add .gitignore Exception for VSCode IDE Files https://git.io/fjYw9
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09:06:36 <peter1138> Infrastructure cost is recalculated on loading, right?
10:36:44 <Artea> AroAI with 1000 road vehicles
10:38:01 <Artea> I didn't activated Infrastructure cost, so I don't know
10:40:32 <Artea> "will be paid at regular intervals. "
10:51:02 <peter1138> Basically I want to make sure that infrastructure costs are calculated properly in NRT.
10:51:32 <peter1138> And probably the simplest way to do that is to have two instances open, save in one, load in the other. Compare costs.
10:51:41 <peter1138> Ideally, unit tests, but...
10:56:51 <Artea> my OTTD is crazy right now
11:24:07 <V453000> Artea: I've heard that soundtrack before, it's underwhelming :( totally misses the spice that the original has
11:24:30 <V453000> anyway, our updater script does svnCommand = 'svn switch svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/'
11:24:41 <V453000> how should this command look now that OpenTTD is on github?
11:24:55 <peter1138> Put a # in front of it :D
11:24:57 <V453000> we also have svnCommand = 'svn update -'
11:25:18 <peter1138> Do you want to handle tags?
11:25:37 <V453000> I don't really know, it's my first time trying to understand this script
11:25:44 <peter1138> "git fetch <remotename>" where usually remotename is "origin"
11:25:50 <V453000> I just don't really understand what do I want git to do
11:25:59 <peter1138> That'll do the update.
11:26:23 <peter1138> "git checkout 1.9.1" will checkout 1.9.1
11:27:00 <V453000> nice (: I'll try, thank you
11:27:22 <peter1138> For tags, that's fine. For branches you can need something like "git checkout <branch> && git reset --hard origin/<branch>"
11:28:02 <V453000> we just need stable releases and master = nightlies = trunk, right?
11:28:33 <peter1138> master is the new trunk, yes.
11:28:38 <peter1138> But also it's just a branch.
11:30:39 <peter1138> Hmm, but for nightlies you may need a specific revision if there's been more commits.
11:31:00 <peter1138> git checkout master && git reset --hard <nightlyhash>
11:31:41 <V453000> all these things work manually, but I guess there is some way to get the <nightlyhash> automatically?
11:33:27 <peter1138> There's a link... somewhere. Hmm.
11:34:46 <peter1138> Hmm, webster.openttdcoop.org seems to be not searchable :(
11:37:38 <peter1138> Not very snapped. They look like very temporary URLs :p
11:38:24 <peter1138> Hmm, ideally that would include the full hash, not just the hash in the version string.
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11:45:18 <Artea> how is possible to beat an AI with 50 years old ?
11:45:47 <peter1138> AIs can be pretty dumb.
11:46:04 <Artea> not with 1000 road vehicles
11:46:24 <Artea> seems that was my mistake :(
11:46:28 <peter1138> 1000 road vehicles sounds like a bad idea to me :-)
11:46:48 <Artea> just wanted to see if AroAI would reach that number
11:47:03 <Artea> seems it did and become multimilionare
12:26:26 <Artea> "Your computer is too slow to keep up with the server"
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12:39:09 <Artea> just notice that FISH 0.9.8 replaces normal ships
12:39:52 <peter1138> That's normal, yes.
12:43:55 <peter1138> You can spam a lot of them.
12:44:42 <Artea> is going rise down my economy :(
12:45:50 <Artea> normal ships can get 112 kms/h
12:47:27 <peter1138> Only the hovercraft.
12:48:12 <Artea> I dont remember the Oil ship
12:48:18 <Artea> but was more than this ones for sure
12:48:37 <Artea> 7,000 euros from a ship that costed 250,000 euros
12:51:17 <peter1138> On its first journey?
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12:52:01 <Artea> well, was with half cargo
12:52:08 <andythenorth> yeah, but is it lunchtime yet?
12:52:36 <Artea> is FISH going have new version ?
12:52:42 <peter1138> Well, expecting a RoI after 1 half load is a bit much :p
12:52:52 <peter1138> Also, the past participle of cost is cost, not costed.
12:53:13 <peter1138> andythenorth, not quite yet.
12:53:34 <peter1138> No need to be sorry, it's my stupid language :)
12:54:00 <peter1138> "Parameter for ship speed"
12:54:12 <andythenorth> did I actually do that?
12:54:40 <peter1138> No 2x sprites yet, then?
12:54:49 <peter1138> And no introduction dates either.
12:55:24 <andythenorth> 2x sprites never :P
12:55:32 <peter1138> Bloody giant pixels.
12:55:38 <andythenorth> I wouldn't mind, but I'll be dead before I can get it done
12:55:46 <andythenorth> because also FIRS, Horse, Hog etc
12:56:05 <andythenorth> no need for that kind of talk
12:56:18 <peter1138> Scale them up with 2xSAI or something, and then greeble them.
12:57:08 <peter1138> Does unsinkable sam replace fish?
12:57:29 <andythenorth> can use both if wanted
12:57:31 <peter1138> Cos it'd be nice if searching for "fish" would bring it up.
12:57:39 <peter1138> In the content downloader, that is.
12:57:53 <andythenorth> is it on bananas?
12:58:45 <peter1138> "Unsinkable Sam is available from the content service in OpenTTD"
12:59:17 <peter1138> Does it support NewWaterTypes?
13:00:31 <peter1138> Hmm, do AIs need to know if a road type or vehicle is tram or not?
13:00:49 <andythenorth> Sam supports New Docks too
13:00:56 <peter1138> I think power compatibility should be enough.
13:02:52 <peter1138> I added the AIEngine::HasPowerOnRoad() method, which might have been useful :p
13:04:56 <peter1138> andythenorth, nothing supports new docks yet :/
13:05:44 <V453000> oh I was using squid last time
13:05:49 <V453000> so Unsinkable Sam you say
13:05:55 <V453000> I must admit those names are fairly confusing :D
13:05:56 <andythenorth> it's not finished
13:05:59 <andythenorth> but it sucks less
13:06:15 <peter1138> If it was finished, everyone would be saying it's dead.
13:06:49 <andythenorth> no SlugDozers in HEQS
13:06:53 <andythenorth> V453000 ^ must fix
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13:07:17 <V453000> but slugs devour, they don't doze out of the way
13:07:19 <peter1138> I had to fix master due to Brix.
13:07:33 <peter1138> andythenorth, nice!
13:08:23 <peter1138> Crash cos the water-based transfer station is massssiiiiiiive
13:08:38 <peter1138> Guess what my lunch today is?
13:08:47 <V453000> how does it relate to brix? :d
13:09:04 <peter1138> It didn't mean brix did I?
13:09:12 <peter1138> I meant the one with that industry.
13:09:20 <peter1138> It's still yours though :D
13:09:38 <peter1138> I had to fix master due to Yeti :D
13:09:55 <andythenorth> lunch was supposed to be baked potato
13:09:57 <V453000> was that the exchange merchant industry?
13:10:01 <andythenorth> but there has been a failure of cooking
13:10:13 <V453000> well it's the only bigger than 4x4 one :)
13:10:24 <peter1138> It spreads out far from its station part, which I hadn't anticipated.
13:10:32 <V453000> how did you discover the issue? did you actually play YETI? :D
13:10:48 <peter1138> I added it and it failed generating a map :D
13:11:30 <peter1138> This is related to the new non-square catchment areas.
13:11:43 <V453000> ah now I understand what that does
13:12:04 <V453000> so industries with non-rectangular areas like FIRS stuff can have non-rectangular catchment areas? That's cool af
13:12:12 <peter1138> Well, it interacts with the neutral station/industry option in 1.9.
13:12:34 <peter1138> Industries without built in stations are not affected.
13:12:41 <peter1138> Oil rigs, and fishing fields, etc.
13:12:42 <Artea> peter: is map_x and map_y locked ?
13:12:53 <V453000> I'm still not sure what it means :D I should probably just check in game
13:12:55 <peter1138> You can't change them mid-game.
13:13:41 <peter1138> V453000, an option was added so that industries with their own station ONLY serve that station. So you can't build rail stations next to oil rigs to serve them.
13:14:39 <peter1138> Damn, these granola/tiffin bars are like 500 carolies each. Who can afford to eat one of them? :
13:15:21 <Artea> I mean, I changed from 11 (2k x 2k) to 12 (4k x 4k), will work if change to 13 ?
13:15:44 <Artea> it would crash, right ?
13:15:51 <peter1138> No, it would just not accept that value.
13:16:19 <peter1138> V453000, optional, because we anticipated controversy.
13:16:39 <V453000> yeah I understand :) it's interesting
13:22:29 <V453000> not to mention my local latest version is 0.0.6 ...
13:29:12 <peter1138> Hmm, can I use sprite 1420 as a bare pavement sprite?
13:30:10 <V453000> is that the city sprite?
13:31:09 <peter1138> Oh, and I mean for roads :-)
13:32:06 <andythenorth> potato, tuna, sweetcorn
13:32:41 <peter1138> I have a bit of salad, and a bit of spinach/kale quiche. Such manly food.
13:32:58 <peter1138> So did the baked potato bake?
13:33:14 <andythenorth> it did after I put it in the oven yes
13:35:33 <peter1138> I wonder why I ever did that?
13:52:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr) https://git.io/fhhd3
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13:55:33 <peter1138> Oh right, 1420 is not appropriate, I need slopes too.
13:56:26 <peter1138> Paved farm tiles? :D
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14:38:25 <LordAro> peter1138: i like it (tto style windows)
14:40:17 <peter1138> I have a patch that scales up line widths (and padding) when scaling the UI.
14:47:45 <peter1138> Well, a git branch actually.
14:49:36 <LordAro> "I have a patch^H^H^H^H^Hbranch for that"
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17:04:52 <peter1138> Hmm, Air - Pocket Symphony came up in the list to watch.
17:04:59 <peter1138> I've... never heard of that album o_O
17:08:49 <supermop_work> an EP tho, not a full album
17:10:39 <Samu> I'm running some kind of AI competition, probably too biased
17:10:49 <Samu> First to £10,000,000 competition
17:11:23 <supermop_work> first AI to generate a convincing Air EP?
17:12:00 <Samu> first to reach a £10M company value, I'm using my GS
17:12:48 <Samu> may be a bad idea to do this 1 on 1
17:13:08 <Samu> some ais are very competitive, some are so bad, the other gets all the advantage, :|
17:13:31 <supermop_work> idk if it is fun and interesting to do, why not?
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17:14:08 <peter1138> Hmm, it's not very Air-like.
17:14:21 <peter1138> supermop_work, 56 minutes, seems pretty long to me.
17:20:49 <supermop_work> whoa, i remember it being like 40
17:21:26 <supermop_work> this was also back when most albums seemed to really push for 74 min on cd
17:22:01 <supermop_work> and if you bought them on vinyle it would be 4-6 sides (looking at you theivery corporation)
17:22:52 <peter1138> NIN released a 30 minute album last year, though it was originally going to be an EP.
17:30:38 <nielsm> hm should I stream derail valley...
18:11:43 <nielsm> okay never mind that was a massive failure, I braked at a dumb time and did not have enough momentum to get up a grade, and then ran out of sand
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19:04:08 <Happpy> Hi this mite be the rone irc channel to ask this but has aney own see planmaker becours we got a big problem whive openttdcoop home page and the irc website and all websites ar down ?
19:05:44 <nielsm> planetmaker makes frequent appearences here
19:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't have called it "frequent"
19:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but he was here recently
19:22:14 <Samu> the war between CPU and Convoy is taking too long :(
19:41:36 <Borg> what happened that 1.9.1 .exe is so much smaller compared to 1.8.0 ?
19:41:58 <nielsm> replaced the ICU library
19:42:27 <peter1138> That and our build system is different now.
19:42:38 <glx> split text and gui zoom too
19:42:40 <Borg> yeah, and no more win9x builds :(
19:42:53 <peter1138> Who even still uses win9x.
19:42:55 <glx> and better high dpi support
19:43:29 <glx> oups I read "text" when it was ".exe"
19:43:44 <peter1138> Haha, dinner, 289 carolies, one cookie, 300 carolies. Stupid sugar.
19:44:55 <glx> anyway the compiler for win9x is outdated (old mingw)
19:45:59 <glx> and its win32api is a little too strict in c++11 mode
19:48:55 * andythenorth is doing life admin
19:48:58 <andythenorth> but forums are testing it
19:49:12 <andythenorth> what shall I call the teeny tiny trains?
19:49:20 <andythenorth> industrial trams?
19:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> is there no english word for feldbahn?
19:50:01 <andythenorth> within technical train foamer circles
19:50:05 <andythenorth> or industrial narrow gauge
19:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so like blitzkrieg and kindergarten?
19:50:38 <peter1138> I would play but I've got mountain (*hill) biking to do
19:52:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: shall I keep the crazy tram length varying behaviour from HEQS? :)
19:52:21 <andythenorth> it works really well, but the longest variant is kind of silly :)
19:52:32 <andythenorth> that would be much better if peter1138 stopped biking and coded variants :D
19:52:44 <andythenorth> HEQS does it as livery subtypes
19:52:54 <andythenorth> why is the wiki wrong?
19:53:03 <andythenorth> livery subtypes is described as cargo subtypes :P
19:53:22 <andythenorth> imagine, a wrong wiki
19:53:29 <peter1138> There's a wiki page about it?
19:53:31 <andythenorth> end of civilisation
19:53:53 <peter1138> Cargo subtype display, yes.
19:54:00 <andythenorth> all the bug reports call it 'liveries' :D
19:54:05 <andythenorth> because people gonna people
19:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because some naive original authors keep insisting it's for influencing "cargos", say "Passengers (Worker)"
19:54:50 <andythenorth> I'm just talking to no purpose :P
19:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which is about 0% accurate
19:55:07 <andythenorth> irc is like going to the pub, without the need to go outside
19:55:15 <andythenorth> outside is over-rated
19:55:26 <andythenorth> I wonder when Truebrain will come back
19:55:33 <Wolf01> Specially when you have a stock of ginger ale
19:55:57 <andythenorth> I have beer in my fridge, and no need to queue at the bar for it
19:56:23 <andythenorth> the English tradition of 'no table service' is very socially equal
19:56:27 <andythenorth> but kind of annoying
19:56:45 <nielsm> and strange stacktrace
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20:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> why company livery? and what is it sorting?
20:03:11 <nielsm> it's sorting found servers
20:03:28 <nielsm> it's that function name on the top of the stack trace that's weird
20:03:53 <nielsm> because yes it's weird it lists that as a company livery comparer
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20:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming it's reusing another function?
20:48:47 <nielsm> that's also my best guess, two functions that happen to compile to the same code getting merged
20:49:03 <nielsm> unless the compiler is doing that by mistake and the functions are not actually identical
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21:17:55 <andythenorth> might just call it feldbahn then
21:23:32 <daiwai8> hi, i was playing on server 1 earlier but when i just tried to re-connect after switching networks i got banned
21:24:22 <andythenorth> daiwai8: are you looking for reddit servers?
21:25:22 <nielsm> andythenorth: both the picture before and that video seem like they're heavier axle weights than a feldbahn would typically run with
21:26:46 <daiwai8> yes, reddit server #1
21:31:56 <andythenorth> daiwai8: try the reddit chat or discord, none of the /r/openttd people are here :)
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21:44:28 <andythenorth> so feldbahn trains for all cargo types?
21:44:39 <andythenorth> or really minimal, tippers, forest wagons?
21:45:43 <andythenorth> eh, coop is really dead :)
21:45:49 <nielsm> all unfinished cargo types
21:46:11 <Artea> I think there should be a standalone console
21:46:12 <andythenorth> I think the coop bouncer has died, so none of the people with coop admin access are in the coop irc channel :P
21:46:19 <Artea> for forked dedicated server
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21:51:13 <Artea> is there any OTTD admin console ?
21:53:03 <Artea> seems I going have some fun :D
21:56:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd prefer all cargo types
21:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: some were used within factories for all kinds of transportation
21:57:20 <FLHerne> daiwai8: There's also #/r/openttd , which is relayed to the in-game chat and intermittently watched by the server mods
21:57:38 <FLHerne> (yes, with the slashes!)
21:58:20 <Samu> convoy and cpu still at war :(
21:58:54 <andythenorth> what's the distinctive gameplay feature for feldbahn then?
21:59:19 <andythenorth> the freight trams are high hp, low speed, and about 1.75x the capacity per tile, compared to road truck of same generation
21:59:36 <nielsm> sounds like that would be the same niche
22:00:02 <andythenorth> but the freight trams are all 16/8 long
22:00:15 <andythenorth> whereas feldbahn might be 32/8 or even more?
22:00:16 <nielsm> small frequent services (almost pipeline/conveyer) over not-too-long distances
22:00:47 <andythenorth> mostly I just want them to look cool
22:00:53 <andythenorth> but they have to work too :)
22:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the main advantage over a train would be the small footprint because you don't need complicated singalling
22:01:46 <nielsm> I still think it should be limited to non-finished cargo types, i.e. no goods, food, mail, valuables, etc
22:01:58 <andythenorth> and feldbahn can drive through each other :P
22:02:00 <nielsm> but steel and other intermediates would be fine
22:02:40 <andythenorth> the Hog trams are optimised for station performance
22:02:43 <nielsm> I'm watching a speedrun of Satisfactory, and it's curious how little factory building there is
22:02:59 <andythenorth> at 16/8 they seemed to give the best queuing behaviour with large drive-in roadstops
22:03:01 <nielsm> (it's more efficient to hand craft everything past the smelting of minerals)
22:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: it devolves into a clicking simulator?
22:04:02 <nielsm> in fact just holding the mouse button down for minutes at a time
22:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "stand here for 5 minutes and hold down this mouse buton"
22:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i was watching a non-speed-run and also found it a bit curious that the hand-crafting is that quick
22:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't seen how exponential the output requirements get in the "late game"
22:06:58 <nielsm> according to the official wiki you will eventually need to deliver large amounts of Computers and other deep tier products
22:11:29 <andythenorth> the disadvantage of HEQS feldbahn is that they are long and block stations horribly :)
22:14:50 <andythenorth> maybe I can give them some bonus on capacity, and keep speed nerfed
22:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the actual problem you're trying to solve, besides blind "i need to do SOMETHING"
22:22:01 <andythenorth> stuff has to have a rationale
22:22:36 <andythenorth> it doesn't have to be 100% proof
22:23:15 <andythenorth> usually you or frosch provide it ;)
22:23:53 <andythenorth> from Hog, about 4 years ago
22:23:54 <andythenorth> [8:45pm] frosch123: they do not need to be fast
22:23:55 <andythenorth> [8:45pm] frosch123: but they need high capacity on little space
22:24:08 <andythenorth> oof, this is where NRT started
22:24:08 <andythenorth> [9:15pm] andythenorth: now I just need the option for diesel trams
22:24:17 <andythenorth> dunno what year that was
22:38:42 <andythenorth> electric engine seems to be about 1000hp
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22:40:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is there any meaningful translation of Sattelbodenentleerer
22:40:39 <andythenorth> some kind of saddle hopper wagon?
22:41:35 <nielsm> I think bodenentleerer means emptying through bottom?
22:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: is there actual meaning behind this word anyway? i don't think i ever heard it :p
22:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but "hopper" sounds right
22:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: is it "saddle" because internally it is sloped to both sides?
22:46:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt an average person would use these words in this combination. this is deep technical jargon...
22:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> and by "average person" i mean "openttd user"
22:52:02 <andythenorth> I am just using it to get google results
22:52:13 <andythenorth> german industrial rail is substantially developed
22:53:28 <andythenorth> so wagons with about 25t payload in 9m length
22:53:41 <andythenorth> 8/8 is roughly 18m, allowing that scale varies a lot
22:54:11 <andythenorth> that might even just be standard gauge?
22:54:17 <andythenorth> photo is hard to tell
22:54:45 <andythenorth> has stats for NG + SG
22:55:05 <andythenorth> the Hog trams are about 70t / tile
22:55:22 <andythenorth> the mining trucks are about 100t / tile
22:56:34 <andythenorth> the Hog trams are also about 700HP per tile
22:57:00 <andythenorth> mining trucks are about 800HP or so
23:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i would imagine an EL3 has more HP than that :p
23:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: upon reading that previous page again, yes, the picture i linked shows a standard gauge engine
23:04:46 <andythenorth> what do we want the slope performance of feldbahn to be?
23:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd slope handling is a bit weird anyway
23:06:35 <andythenorth> slope performance is almost entirely a function of HP
23:06:39 <andythenorth> TE barely matters
23:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> TE matters in a bunch of cases that aren't properly modeled by the game anyway
23:08:15 <andythenorth> I have accepted this, and just balance against HP now
23:08:28 <andythenorth> I do set the TE, but knowing it's mostly irrelevant :P
23:09:01 <andythenorth> Horse NG trains are relatively nerfed compared to Hog trams
23:09:29 <andythenorth> I think NG trains are mostly eye candy novelty
23:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> NG tracks have no real benefit at openttd tile scale
23:15:43 <andythenorth> so I think feldbahn, using 1950 as a reference date against other types
23:16:11 <andythenorth> 32/8 long vehicle, 175t, 1000hp, 35mph
23:16:49 <andythenorth> Horse equivalent SG train at 32/8 is 140t, 1150HP and 75mph
23:17:43 <andythenorth> I'm ignoring feldbahn track axle load, and physical dimensions of the vehicles, not useful for game fun
23:18:30 <andythenorth> this is electric feldbahn though, diesel poses a hp challenge :P
23:23:53 <peter1138> Oh. I left my game running and it's only 15 years later?
23:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like 3 hours?
23:35:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bennyman123abc commented on issue #7479: Changing client name closes construction windows https://git.io/fjYFH
23:36:31 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest497
23:36:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
23:39:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7497: Feature: Selective demolition tool. https://git.io/fjYF5
23:54:57 <peter1138> lol @ "nuts 'n more high protein peanut" squeezable sachet thing.
23:55:01 *** arikover` has joined #openttd
23:55:13 <peter1138> It's basically... peanut butter in a gel sachet. What a con :p
23:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like "vegan beer", where it's just regular beer, but because it was vegan to begin with they just changed the label?
23:58:15 <peter1138> Yes, like most "high protein" products on the market these days, it's just nuts.
continue to next day ⏵
