IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-03-30
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00:00:29 <SimYouLater> Last time I tried to post this, Leanden got angry at me for wasting people's time.
00:02:47 <peter1138> Yeah, no, people draw whatever scale they want.
00:03:34 <peter1138> I guess if you want to document what people have already drawn, then that's great.
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00:05:37 <SimYouLater> peter1138: "This is a guide, not a rulebook. You can do whatever you want when making railtypes! However... There are three trends that can be considered "scales" in the same way model trains have scales. This guide shows what these scales are and what other NewGRFs use them, so that you can try to match your graphics to the graphics of other NewGRFs."
00:06:16 <SimYouLater> I never said there were rules. I said there were trends. Trends that could be useful to follow if you've never made a tracktype before.
00:06:37 <peter1138> So you post a piece of information. What's the problem?
00:06:41 <Samu> ehm, i'm not much into trains
00:06:51 <SimYouLater> "Could" be useful. Are they?
00:07:18 <SimYouLater> Because I've been told by someone angrily that it's not useful.
00:08:39 <SimYouLater> Leanden. About two years ago.
00:09:19 <peter1138> Yeah, you know, nobody really cares? You don't need to seek validation all the time. We just get on with stuff.
00:09:52 <SimYouLater> Alright, fair enough. I just wondered why someone did care in a way that was horribly negative.
00:10:20 <peter1138> Ignore negative people
00:10:30 <peter1138> And don't hold grudges.
00:11:29 <SimYouLater> Alright. Thank you.
00:11:36 <peter1138> Bah, HasBit() doesn't work with enum class :/
00:28:18 <Samu> why is assert() without a space between assert and ()
00:31:55 <peter1138> Why would it have a space?
00:32:00 <peter1138> It's not a keyword.
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00:35:11 <Samu> or why it isn't Assert()
00:39:32 <Samu> can GS change game settings ?
00:40:12 <Samu> regression can't test this
00:40:44 <Samu> station_noise_level on and off in the same game
00:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> oha, i found a commit in trunk that was cherry-picked from YACD :p
00:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and i still can't check if it actually compiles
00:47:40 <peter1138> Actually cherry-picked?
00:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, slightly modified
00:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm still in commits from 2011
00:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think this is the fastest approach to rebasing :p
00:57:18 <Samu> test successful!, this was with station_noise_level off
01:01:33 <Samu> im afraid station_noise_level on may assert, because it's a living world, towns can grow or shrink in a tick
01:29:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
01:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i think i managed to automate the bisection :)
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02:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, this looks like another cherry pick
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02:37:11 <Samu> peter1138, I just had a weird idea
02:37:45 <Samu> some kind of fps auto-balance for scripts
02:37:56 <Samu> now that there's a frame rate
02:38:43 <Samu> a self-adjusting #opcodes to maintain playable frame rates
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02:48:31 <Samu> test successful!, this was with station_noise_leve on
02:48:46 <Samu> no asserts! kinda suspicious
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03:28:03 <Samu> went all the way down from 1720 ms avg to 52 ms
03:29:14 <Samu> the biggest benefactor was still that CargoProductionAround patch
03:31:02 <Samu> the difference between using valuators and not using it is shown in the same openttd version
03:32:51 <Samu> valuators would be nice to use if they didn't degrade playability so much
03:34:45 <Samu> and finally, IsNoiseLevelAllowed vs old_method gains weren't all that impressive in a real usage
03:38:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee commented on issue #7438: Music sets (including DOS music) broken after trying other music sets https://git.io/fjTjo
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04:05:41 <Samu> kdtree with perimeter is impressive on smaller maps
04:06:41 <Samu> 256x256 is now more like a tie
04:07:03 <Samu> without perimeter it was worse
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04:38:22 <Samu> ScriptTile::GetCargoProduction (9,81%)
04:38:40 <Samu> ScriptTile::GetCargoAcceptance (8,21%)
04:39:16 <Samu> ScriptAirport::IsNoiseAllowed (10,77%)
04:39:40 <Samu> ScriptList::RemoveItem (5,81%)
04:40:10 <Samu> ScriptList::AddList (6,13%)
04:40:31 <Samu> @calc 9.81 + 8.21 + 10.77 + 5.81 + 6.13
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04:58:17 <supermop_Home_> this brand new LP has a lot of pops on it
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07:36:52 <peter1138> Well, bollocks. Another drive failure.
08:21:23 <nielsm> I need a better window manager/desktop environment for my linux machine, this gnome junk takes way too much of the valuable vertical space
08:39:18 <nielsm> hmm why does the SDL driver suggest tiny tiny resolutions...
08:39:28 <nielsm> the game would not really be playable in 320x200
08:39:48 <nielsm> (have anyone made a "tinybase" set?)
08:47:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7442: Change: [SDL] Do not offer video smaller than 640x480 https://git.io/fjkJ6
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08:53:48 <LordAro> nielsm: i suspect the audio crash stuff is to do with the changes i made for c3bc7d6
08:54:10 <LordAro> i slightly changed the sdl initialisation/destruction stuff
08:55:16 * LordAro is in De Nederland today
08:56:47 <nielsm> LordAro: the mixer should probably stop running if audio has been deinited
08:58:44 <nielsm> also, this is so much better, LXDE with theme adjusted to use smaller fonts
08:59:07 <nielsm> no reason to go above size 9 when on 1366x768 on a 13" display
09:01:36 <LordAro> nielsm: i'd refine that to be "mixer should be stopped before audio is deinited"
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09:07:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7253: Fix #7189: Fluidsynth volume gain too high https://git.io/fjkJ5
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09:23:57 <andythenorth> Vehicle Bodies, Vehicle Powertrain, Vehicle Glass, Electrical Machines, Tyres -> Assembly Plant -> Vehicles
09:24:12 <andythenorth> Steeltown starts looking more like Motor City :(
09:24:49 <andythenorth> also, why not also Paint, Textiles, Plastic Parts -> Assembly Plant?
09:51:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker opened pull request #7443: Add: Titlegame for 1.9 branch. Savegame by JGR https://git.io/fjkUO
10:05:32 <TrueBrain> patch-wise it still lacks a few comments, but no functions in that file really has comments, so I guess we can let that slip :P
10:06:20 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: honestly that PR wastes so much time in discussion for so little result
10:06:32 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is called a teaching process, sadly
10:06:35 <planetmaker> would be a good occasion to actually add comments
10:06:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7443: Add: Titlegame for 1.9 branch. Savegame by JGR https://git.io/fjkUB
10:06:50 <planetmaker> then it definetely would add value
10:07:10 <andythenorth> but then we smack samu down for scope creep
10:07:16 <TrueBrain> but the real line of code that is changed here ..to me it sounds correct; in testing it looks correct
10:07:20 <TrueBrain> just wondering if I am missing anything
10:07:44 <planetmaker> hehe, true andythenorth
10:08:04 <andythenorth> learning to program in an open source irc environment is almost impossible
10:08:31 <TrueBrain> for a stackoverflow kiddie it has to be hell
10:08:33 <andythenorth> on any given day here I can be told I am over-engineering stuff, or that I don't have enough engineering
10:08:40 <andythenorth> and I have been programming for 36 years
10:09:06 <TrueBrain> funny; I just became 36 years old (2 days ago) :P
10:09:15 <andythenorth> first thing I coded TrueBrain was you
10:09:17 <TrueBrain> I dont want to say you are old, but .... :P
10:09:21 <andythenorth> you are living in my simulation
10:09:28 <TrueBrain> that would explain SO MUCH honestly
10:09:39 <andythenorth> if your life is improving, it's because I wasn't good at all when I started
10:10:04 <andythenorth> my first programe was something like
10:10:18 <andythenorth> 10 array ('swearword1', 'swearword2' etc)
10:10:28 <andythenorth> 20 print rnd(array)
10:10:53 <andythenorth> that's how TrueBrain began life tbh
10:11:41 <andythenorth> original method still exists, see ^
10:11:52 <andythenorth> I should refactor it out
10:12:05 <andythenorth> the problem with 6926 is really, 'why bother at all'
10:12:07 <TrueBrain> how do we want to do the release .. do I make a commit to disable assert and tag that, outside of branch (like old releases)
10:12:11 <andythenorth> it solves a problem I never had
10:12:13 <TrueBrain> or do I commit, release, revert?
10:12:23 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: not my question, not the argument I am going to have :)
10:12:29 <TrueBrain> I want to know if the code line itself is correct
10:13:44 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> the problem with 6926 is really, 'why bother at all' <-- that's subjective... some care about this, some about that
10:13:54 <planetmaker> so... in doubt: scratch as many itches as we can
10:20:22 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: any reason to change from old way to release?
10:20:44 <TrueBrain> having a detached tag is not git-like
10:21:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7443: Add: Titlegame for 1.9 branch. Savegame by JGR https://git.io/fjkUO
10:22:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjkUP
10:22:26 <planetmaker> as to release... hm... preferentially it'd just be a different build image it is built upon
10:22:42 <planetmaker> then no code change is needed. After all it's just build option which change
10:22:52 <TrueBrain> those 2 options I gave are on the table
10:23:39 <planetmaker> probably commit, release, revert would be my approach. +0.1 :P
10:23:52 <TrueBrain> its all a bit meh ..
10:24:05 <planetmaker> you can leave-out the revert basically...
10:24:19 <planetmaker> only releases will be built from it - or?
10:24:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. only if we don't do a beta for 1.9.1
10:24:24 <TrueBrain> which is unlikely, given our history
10:24:43 <planetmaker> we only do -rc for bug-fix releases. If at all
10:25:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, so lets not for the 1.9 serie :D
10:25:06 <planetmaker> and we can revert that for that, if we want
10:25:13 <TrueBrain> I doubt we will have a 1.9.1 tbh .. only if we fucked up
10:25:21 <TrueBrain> that part, we will forget, I promise you :D
10:25:22 <planetmaker> dunno... maybe we do
10:25:31 <planetmaker> we didn't have 1.8.1 because we had not CI
10:25:50 <planetmaker> and no established work-flow for patches etc
10:25:54 <planetmaker> it's much more active now
10:26:06 <TrueBrain> yeah ... that is why I think we won't have a 1.9.1 :)
10:26:35 <andythenorth> 1.10 all the way
10:32:16 <planetmaker> that rather tells me there'll be a 1.9.1 :)
10:32:32 <Wolf01> So, for this year no april fool? Too many fake news?
10:34:07 <TrueBrain> can someone quickly review my backport PR? :)
10:34:08 <nielsm> fear me, remover of lines of code
10:34:50 <TrueBrain> after that I have a PR that does 1.9.0; means we only have to backport translations just before we do
10:35:36 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, are there not more fixes worth to backport?
10:35:52 <planetmaker> (I didn't look... just asking)
10:36:57 <TrueBrain> nobody marked any, so I think not
10:38:54 <planetmaker> I'm not convinced that reasoning is sound :P
10:39:37 <nielsm> you mean my want to fix the fix?
10:39:50 <nielsm> since irc the 1.9 branch was made after that PR was merged
10:40:05 <andythenorth> with 2 days to go, I wouldn't be changing much more :P
10:40:09 <TrueBrain> your comment made my search go weird :P
10:40:12 <andythenorth> there's always 1.9.1 :P
10:40:40 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: feel free to validate ;) But I expect people who merge stuff to mark PRs as "needs backporting" if it does :)
10:40:47 <TrueBrain> (and so far everyone has been :P)
10:41:10 <TrueBrain> but if we have everything backported, is more a question for sunday night :D
10:42:01 <planetmaker> 4feea8d (file list scrolling)
10:42:43 <TrueBrain> naming them in here might not give the result you expect :)
10:42:58 <_dp_> is non-rect in 1.9 though?
10:44:45 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't at all, honestly
10:45:09 <TrueBrain> but please review of my PR? Means I can continue? :D (we can debate what more to backport till sunday evening)
10:45:58 <planetmaker> I wouldn't 7401 at all
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10:51:01 <nielsm> bye, going to enjoy some spring weather
10:51:09 <TrueBrain> does nobody dare to approve it? :(
10:51:29 <TrueBrain> these kind of things really block workflow sometimes .. :P
10:51:32 <andythenorth> if no-one else does, I might :P
10:51:50 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: sometimes a "really trust me" button would be helpful on GH
10:51:52 <TrueBrain> there is nothing in there that was done manual ..
10:51:59 <andythenorth> I can offer that as a service :P
10:52:05 <TrueBrain> normally I leave on that an admin can overwrite the requirement for approval
10:52:37 <TrueBrain> exactly for these reasons :)
10:53:15 <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD we disabled that too .. but that does mean I sometimes need someone to hit a tiny button for the automation to continue :)
10:53:27 <TrueBrain> guess I should allow this automation to overrule review ..
10:53:54 * andythenorth checks actual contents
10:54:18 <andythenorth> is the 'to backport' label now cleared from PRs?
10:54:33 <andythenorth> now it's 'backported'
10:56:19 <TrueBrain> *fixes stupid rebase bug in script*
10:56:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7445: Update: Changelog for 1.9.0 and prepare for release https://git.io/fjkTe
10:57:56 <TrueBrain> right .. that prepares monday early morning, I think
10:58:51 <TrueBrain> hopefully frosch drops by to validate we are doing the right thing here :D
11:02:01 <andythenorth> then we can make nml2 !!
11:02:16 <andythenorth> and a new website
11:02:20 <andythenorth> and bananas99 !!
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11:46:04 <peter1138> Hmm, only 50 miles this morning, well, LordAro will be beating me again.
11:49:17 <peter1138> So I tried using enum class, but HasBit() fails with it :(
11:49:41 <LordAro> peter1138: i did 85 yesterday, and doing the same today :)
11:50:06 <peter1138> Wait, you're doing 85 today... and it's 10:50 already.
11:50:20 <LordAro> currently eating some appletart
11:50:39 <peter1138> You are mid-ride and on IRC. That is dedication.
11:50:45 <LordAro> the paths are absolutely glorious
11:51:01 <LordAro> i mean, it's right here
11:55:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjkTb
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12:38:36 <andythenorth> I wish the author of FIRS would stop adding cargos
13:05:18 <andythenorth> maybe I should stop :P
13:08:14 <andythenorth> mumble mumble fix towns
13:10:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key https://git.io/fjkkd
13:33:51 <peter1138> Apparently confirmation is the end of the world.
13:38:01 <andythenorth> I am closing that
13:38:05 <andythenorth> essays aren't needed
13:38:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key https://git.io/fjkIg
13:38:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key https://git.io/fhhC9
13:39:34 <peter1138> Eh, the issue itself is valid :p
13:42:16 <andythenorth> so is not writing mini-essays
13:45:16 * andythenorth has gone power mad
13:45:21 <andythenorth> take my edit rights away
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14:17:45 <peter1138> Remove tram button from scenario editor?
14:21:53 <Wolf01> I still can't understand why tram rails in SE are so wrong... if I want to make a scenario with pre-built tram rails?
14:22:25 <peter1138> Wolf01, I'm not sure they are, hence why I've asked.
14:22:38 <Wolf01> Tram rails are just roads
14:24:33 <Wolf01> Player might not be able to build them, lacking of vehicles, wrong year, but that is for road too
14:41:29 <Wolf01> It's like when you miss a where clause in SQL
14:41:53 <andythenorth> 'oof' is FIRS Steeltown
14:41:56 <peter1138> It should ignore powered-on status
14:41:57 <andythenorth> and how to end the chains
14:42:53 <Wolf01> That little tram icon on the vehicle list is really nice
14:47:31 <andythenorth> meh, Steeltown is _nearly_ good :P
14:47:43 <andythenorth> something is off, and solo play-testing isn't showing what
14:48:42 <andythenorth> I make a .tar, someone can try it
14:49:48 <andythenorth> version number is '1' for lolz reasons :P
14:50:11 <andythenorth> Steeltown economy works, needs some new industry & cargo graphics
14:51:01 <andythenorth> everything is good in the Blast Furnace chain, until steel is produced, then it's meh
14:51:13 <andythenorth> and the Electric Arc Furnace chain is just meh, I never use it
14:51:56 <andythenorth> needs very recent OpenTTD also
15:25:00 <peter1138> Now, maybe it should not show the hidden ones.
15:30:57 <Wolf01> Or at least not show duplicates
15:31:25 <peter1138> They are not duplicates, they are road types which haven't bothered setting that string.
15:42:35 <LordAro> peter1138: appletart 2
15:43:10 <peter1138> LordAro, nice. I need to stop snacking. Just had some biltong
15:43:38 <peter1138> At least that is low carolie and high protein.
15:45:14 <LordAro> traffic in delft & the hague was pretty miserable. very stop start
15:47:43 <LordAro> beatuiful weather though
15:47:52 <LordAro> the sort where you can feel yourself burning
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16:00:23 <andythenorth> so should FIRS provide houses?
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16:01:16 <peter1138> Do it like ECS? Separate GRF for town houses.
16:02:43 <andythenorth> might be retrograde? Currently FIRS provides town industries
16:02:55 <andythenorth> removing those, and having a separate town grf leaves most economies broken
16:03:01 * andythenorth trying to fix towns
16:04:16 <andythenorth> dunno what the problem is yet :P
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16:09:30 <peter1138> What's a town industry? Town buildings that accept cargo other than passengers, mail & goods?
16:10:05 <peter1138> You could keep that separate.
16:10:25 <peter1138> No, banks are actual industries.
16:13:18 <Samu> about 6926. If I do what PeterN tells me, TrueBrain will tell I ignored him
16:15:55 <Samu> Using GetTileTrackStatus directly, would mean TrueBrain's requests go unnatended
16:16:09 <andythenorth> open source is hard eh :P
16:16:17 <TrueBrain> what request would that be?
16:16:23 <TrueBrain> where ever did I tell you to use an exact function?
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16:17:42 <Samu> erm, do what you're telling me, as an exercise
16:17:48 <TrueBrain> I would suggest starting to learn to make sense .. as .. you are confusing as fuck currently
16:18:11 <peter1138> I suggested a function. Did TB suggest a different function?
16:19:17 <andythenorth> let's talk about something else :P
16:19:32 <peter1138> Hmm, we don't have many colours available for tile selection highlight.
16:19:50 <TrueBrain> I have plastic and rubber
16:20:21 <peter1138> Is kinda confusing.
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16:20:48 <TrueBrain> what am I looking at?
16:21:06 <peter1138> TrueBrain, highlighting existing station coverage area when building an adjoining station part.
16:21:18 <peter1138> The cursor is invisible :p
16:21:34 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: what are you going to do with plastic and rubber
16:21:43 <TrueBrain> make super computers currently
16:21:50 <peter1138> (If you have coverage area highlight off, it's not visible, of course)
16:22:13 <Samu> shouldn't the coverate of bus stations be 3 radius?
16:22:14 <peter1138> I'd like to show the existing and new coverage parts in different colours.
16:22:52 <Samu> oh, sorry, I see now, I'm blind
16:23:11 <peter1138> The bare white square is where the cursor is, and is where the new station part would be.
16:23:21 <andythenorth> it's a work of art
16:23:41 <peter1138> I... kinda think it's useful. But I don't know.
16:24:05 <peter1138> Damn, company colours can't be used in this instance.
16:24:24 <andythenorth> so town industries are black hole destinations
16:24:25 <andythenorth> for cargos like alcohol, food, building materials, vehicles
16:24:40 <andythenorth> FIRS provides them as industries because otherwise...how? :P
16:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the player can remove houses, but they cannot provide station names. and if the houses are not coded to stay put it makes delivery annoying
16:25:05 <andythenorth> doing them as industries limits how many appear on the map, because industry limits
16:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: those are things to consider
16:25:35 <andythenorth> ultimately, for whatever reason, distributing these town cargos is really boring gameplay
16:25:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and i'd keep the houses in the industry set
16:25:43 <andythenorth> and is the most broken part of FIRS
16:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're exaggerating
16:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't do it like ECS, where you need two fuel stations in range, but they're jumping around constantly
16:26:41 <peter1138> Should I be able to view the coverage area of other company's stations?
16:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't want to play whack-a-mole with stations
16:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: sure, why not?
16:27:36 <andythenorth> so Eddi|zuHause, in the TL;DR version, you're +1 to implementing as houses?
16:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not really
16:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> make it a parameter! :p
16:29:11 <peter1138> Aren't they already town "houses"?
16:29:26 <peter1138> They're a prime candidate for food/alcohol type stuff.
16:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but they don't have special properties
16:29:34 <andythenorth> there aren't any of the supermarkets in FIRSes
16:29:51 <andythenorth> you get whatever town buildings the baseset or house newgrf provides obv.
16:29:58 <andythenorth> and some support FIRS cargos and some don't
16:31:49 <Samu> I think you meant TrackStatusToTrackBits, not GetTileTrackStatus
16:32:00 <andythenorth> and there's no real upside to delivering these cargos anyway
16:32:08 <andythenorth> which is the least interesting goal
16:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that's more a cargodist problem than a FIRS problem, though
16:32:29 <andythenorth> except in snow / desert, none of them affect town growth etc
16:32:48 <Samu> then it's me, not understanding what I'm being told
16:32:57 <peter1138> Samu, I didn't say "USE THIS FUNCTION", I meant "isn't this a better candidate"?
16:32:58 <andythenorth> "but andythenorth simply write a GS" sounds like a $1 solution to $0.02 problem
16:33:20 <peter1138> If you have to go un-inlining elsewhere, that's usually wrong. Might not be.
16:33:30 <andythenorth> options I thought of so far:
16:33:43 <andythenorth> - use houses not industries
16:33:47 <peter1138> Are there any other tile-highlight styles?
16:33:52 <andythenorth> - have a big 'warehouse' type industry
16:33:58 <andythenorth> - have acceptance limits
16:34:10 <andythenorth> peter1138: there are some in JGR
16:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> none of that solves the "Cargodist is rubbish for few-sources-many-destinations"
16:34:42 <peter1138> Maybe the existing coverage area could flash?
16:34:57 <andythenorth> like industries in mini-map?
16:34:59 <Samu> the un-inline was because linux compilers over there were giving warnings
16:35:02 <peter1138> (Urgh, lots of MarkTileDirtyByTile())
16:35:04 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah.
16:35:09 <_dp_> from cb pov indusries as houses a royal pita
16:35:15 <peter1138> Samu, well they would, it's inline...
16:35:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: can we document exactly why cargodist sucks for that?
16:36:12 <peter1138> One day you'll understand what static and what inline mean, I guess.
16:36:31 <andythenorth> we need a #openttd-samu
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16:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: two main reasons: a) cargodist doesn't provide any incentives to provide more destinations, b) the distance-effect-on-demand is counterproductive
16:37:01 <andythenorth> b) is irrelevant if you're using FIRS
16:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> how is b irrelevant?
16:37:29 <andythenorth> if you have cdist on for freight cargos, FIRS requires distance effect to be 0%
16:37:39 <andythenorth> otherwise it's not possible to deliver supplies
16:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also a c) you need to generate smaller cargopackets per production cycle to deliver to more destinations
16:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's backwards.
16:38:27 <andythenorth> there's also d) you can't reliably deliver to more than 2 destinations from a single pickup station with cdist
16:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you require distance effect to be 0 because of b)
16:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's aduplicate of b+c
16:38:58 <andythenorth> no, it's slightly different
16:39:10 <andythenorth> cargo won't be allocated to a 3rd route for months, or years, or never
16:39:23 <andythenorth> it's liable to be a bug, or perhaps d)
16:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't witnessed that effect
16:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> at least not with 3 destinations
16:39:57 <andythenorth> bet I can trigger it now in my game
16:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> make sure it's not other pitfalls like relying on refit-at-station
16:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and there was also a cycle time issue
16:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> where having too many disconnected networks makes it slower to pick up new links
16:43:07 <peter1138> Hmm, industry/station catchment highlight... is that useful?
16:43:39 <andythenorth> relying on refit at station is fine, if it's explicit refit
16:43:43 <andythenorth> not 'refit any available'
16:48:36 <Samu> how do I explore previous build attempts of the same PR in dev.azure.com
16:50:20 <andythenorth> yeah it's a cycle time issue
16:50:30 <andythenorth> 4 months for the 3rd route to be allocated cargo
16:50:37 <andythenorth> doesn't affect the 2nd route
16:51:58 <andythenorth> it's probably all correct for reasons that I am too dense to understand
16:52:31 <andythenorth> but with >1000t of cargo sat on the station waiting for pickup, it just looks silly to have a vehicle sat waiting for cargo for months
16:52:42 <andythenorth> so I usually just build another pickup station
16:52:52 <andythenorth> which is also why I need a larger industries
16:53:01 <andythenorth> which is why industries need to be able to terraform land
16:53:44 <andythenorth> they don't *need* to at all
16:53:55 <andythenorth> it's ridiculous to do that just because cdist doesn't work
16:53:56 <peter1138> Isn't there a flat-land-border? Doesn't that do it?
16:55:17 <andythenorth> there's nothing that can reliably place large industries on mountainous terrain
16:55:36 <andythenorth> except desiging the industry so that it's single tile sprites and can be jumbled over slopes
16:55:55 <andythenorth> but again, doing this because cdist doesn't work does seem a bit ass backwards :)
16:56:10 <Samu> TrueBrain, shall I move GetTileShipTrackStatus to track_func.h from ship_cmd.cpp+ship.h?
16:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's probably improvements to be had by combining small networks into one cycle
16:59:27 <andythenorth> and has only just started accepting cargo
17:00:02 <andythenorth> it takes a full 6 months to reach 100% (I ffwed a bit)
17:00:13 <andythenorth> if that was RVs, planes or trains, the station would be totally blocked
17:00:33 <andythenorth> so the only solution is to split each pickup station, so a maximum of 2 routes is served
17:00:50 <andythenorth> I dug into it a lot with fonso years ago, with test games
17:01:04 <andythenorth> the 'more stations' solution was the recommended outcome
17:01:14 <andythenorth> otherwise I'd have filed a bug
17:04:58 <andythenorth> hmm even if it was improved
17:05:16 <andythenorth> designing non-blocking pickup stations with cdist active is ~impossible
17:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "leave if another train with this destination arrives" order?
17:06:16 <andythenorth> some kind of 'go round in circles' waypoint?
17:06:26 <andythenorth> I never do that stuff TBH, it's beyond me
17:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> non-blocking stations are tricky even without cargodist
17:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why people want things like programmable signals
17:07:42 <andythenorth> easy if only 1 destination, and a depot order before station
17:11:24 <andythenorth> ok Eddi|zuHause putting all that aside, how distributing to multiple destinations be incentivised (with or without cdist)?
17:11:36 <Samu> I don't know where to put the function
17:11:48 <Samu> If it's not in ship.h, then it's in water.h?
17:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> something about scaling industry output by available destination coverage. but that's one aspect which YACD had problems with. Performance-wise it was tricky to find all potential destinations, and implementation-wise it's a bad idea to do the scaling via station rating, as too many other things are affected (like industry closure)
17:13:24 <andythenorth> I was looking VA2 for useful vars to scale output
17:13:40 <andythenorth> I could enforce acceptance limits at black holes?
17:14:13 <andythenorth> or I could nerf cargo payment (simulation of 'demand') for over-saturated towns?
17:14:48 <Samu> ship.h is the most logical place for it
17:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> then i'd rather have stockpile limit
17:17:09 <andythenorth> could scale that by population
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17:17:43 <andythenorth> afaik, cdist has a really hard time with acceptance stopping / starting
17:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> consume X units per 100 population per month, and stockpile limit is 12*X
17:19:25 <andythenorth> are there incentives which aren't as crude as refusing acceptance?
17:19:34 <andythenorth> like town growth?
17:23:28 * andythenorth unrelated, wonders where the industry map count is applied
17:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
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17:26:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
17:26:48 <andythenorth> there is a count for how many industries should be on the map, scaled by map size and player setting in worldgen options
17:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> in industry_cmd.cpp probably
17:27:24 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno if that exists
17:27:25 <andythenorth> SetupTargetCount() maybe
17:28:13 <Samu> I followed the example set by WaterClass GetEffectiveWaterClass(TileIndex tile);
17:28:20 <andythenorth> I have 50% of an idea about splitting town industries out from the general map count
17:28:49 <andythenorth> so that an industry newgrf could force certain types into *every* town, subject to arbitrary conditions
17:29:19 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjksl
17:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> start with the tropic water tower?
17:30:23 <andythenorth> that's exactly what I did :)
17:30:29 <andythenorth> it's not present in every town
17:30:37 <andythenorth> so, not much to learn there :P
17:30:55 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjks4
17:35:19 <andythenorth> well I didn't find a quick answer
17:35:28 <andythenorth> and I'm not going to just file a GH issue for this :P
17:47:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: can you remember if you scaled industry counts to the newgrf?
17:55:41 <Alberth> it uses the chances supplied by the grf
17:56:41 <Alberth> not sure if that answers your question, don't quite understand "scaled industry counts to the newgrf"
17:59:11 <andythenorth> there is a non-serious issue where a newgrf with a large number of types will get few of each type on the map
18:00:11 <peter1138> Scaled by map size, I think?
18:00:23 <andythenorth> yes, and player setting
18:00:47 <andythenorth> I was trying to understand SetupTargetCount()
18:01:31 <nielsm> hm irc logs again can not be served
18:02:11 <andythenorth> happens sometimes
18:02:16 <nielsm> well some other days too
18:02:39 <nielsm> something enters the logs and breaks the server it seems
18:03:22 <nielsm> also I think my bird sat on my keyboard when I wasn't looking and did something that makes it ignore repeated keypresses without a long delay between
18:03:39 <andythenorth> my mac did that recently
18:03:44 <andythenorth> then I found the setting
18:03:51 <andythenorth> nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnow I have fast repeat
18:03:53 <nielsm> ahh windows "filter keys" accesibility option
18:03:58 <andythenorth> yeah same on the mac :P
18:04:04 <andythenorth> something changed it without me looking
18:04:20 <nielsm> "press and hold the right shift key for eight seconds to turn on filter keys"
18:04:26 <nielsm> that sounds like something a bird woujld do
18:05:08 <andythenorth> so how to force industries into towns? o_O
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18:21:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
18:24:59 <peter1138> Just flooding the system with PRs...
18:26:37 <Samu> don't tell me nielsm was right all this time
18:27:57 <Samu> asserting (forall == kdtree centre tile only
18:28:09 <Samu> only 1 tile would massively speed up things
18:29:36 <nielsm> I'm sure you can find edge cases where it's not true
18:29:55 <peter1138> If the airport is square, and has odd dimensions, yes (but the distance isn't the distance from the closest tile to the town)
18:30:09 <nielsm> but I think it would involve gigantic airports with irregular shapes
18:31:06 <nielsm> and potentially the town centre tile being inside the airport bounding rectangle
18:31:26 <Samu> TILE_ADDXY is utterly slow for some reason, gonna do this in another manner
18:32:08 <Alberth> andy: yes, it's scaled by map size, and density, many industries means each one gets less often build
18:32:44 <andythenorth> ok as I thought then
18:33:20 <andythenorth> I wonder if newgrf industry could have a flag to be opted out of the count
18:33:35 <andythenorth> obviously authors could do stupid things with that
18:34:23 <Alberth> give it 0 chance should work
18:35:04 <andythenorth> peter1138: 7446 is madness :)
18:35:23 <andythenorth> when using distant join
18:35:31 <andythenorth> not bad madness, just surprising effect
18:36:17 <andythenorth> the basic 'Coverage' is really good
18:36:38 <andythenorth> but on distant join the hover effect is quite surprising :)
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18:38:34 <andythenorth> also found a bug
18:39:05 <peter1138> That's why we PR instead of insta-merge :D
18:42:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjkGl
18:42:45 <andythenorth> hmm can I get a clean repro
18:43:04 <andythenorth> it's something to do with toggling coverage multiple times, interweaved with opening/closing window
18:43:45 <andythenorth> it keeps some structure of 'previous station' when toggling coverage on multiple stations?
18:51:31 <peter1138> Yeah I guess I broke a condition when adding the adjacaent station stuff.
18:53:01 <andythenorth> I am also available for weddings and funerals
18:53:13 <andythenorth> is it lunch time?
18:53:39 <LordAro> i'm a little disappointed
18:53:44 <peter1138> But I believe I am going to an eat-as-much-as-you-like Chinese buffet tonight.
18:53:45 <Samu> Assertion failed at line 2247 of d:\openttd\openttd github\openttd\src\station_cmd.cpp: forall == centre
18:55:04 <peter1138> For rectangular airports, you might be able to get away with testing just 2 tiles.
18:55:29 <peter1138> You might just not care and decide it's sufficient to only test from the centre.
18:55:42 <glx> peter1138: generate_widget then squirrel_export ;)
18:55:54 <nielsm> part of the question is, maybe it is actually okay to change the rules slightly?
18:58:36 <Samu> TileIndex centre_tile = TileXY(TileX(it) + (as->size_x / 2), TileY(it) + (as->size_y / 2));
18:58:45 <Samu> maybe my centre_tile is wrong
18:59:56 <nielsm> but if the airport is an even number of tiles on one or the other tile
19:00:13 <nielsm> then there is not one definitive centre tile
19:00:25 <nielsm> up to four tiles could be it
19:00:36 <glx> and of course it is included in size
19:00:55 <peter1138> In which case you might as well just test the 4 corner tiles and ignore the whole irregular airports thing.
19:01:21 <Samu> I tested 4 corners tiles before, it also asserted
19:01:31 <glx> is there any non-rectangular airports ?
19:02:15 <Samu> even if there are, there's still as->size_x and as->size_y
19:02:35 <glx> anyway irregular airports will still have size_x and size_y matching the whole coverage
19:03:00 <glx> even if some parts inside are not airport tiles I guess
19:04:04 <peter1138> Samu, it asserted because you were making sure the result is the same.
19:04:09 <peter1138> But maybe it doesn't matter that much.
19:04:10 <andythenorth> should I be testing 7380 yet? o_O
19:04:36 <peter1138> And currently the only irregular airport is the intercontinental within opengfx+ airports.
19:04:58 <peter1138> It has 1 missing corner tile.
19:05:42 <peter1138> Testing just the corner tiles may cause towns to appear to be further.
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19:07:22 <Samu> nielsm other suggestion hmm
19:07:33 * andythenorth learns to draw steam trains
19:07:42 <andythenorth> they're just blobs with a funnel it seems
19:07:51 <andythenorth> never drawn any before
19:08:12 <glx> instead of asserting, maybe you should just print town tile and airport tile, then compare manually which one is correct
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19:09:26 <glx> because old method could be wrong, or your method, but asserting just show they are different, not why they are
19:10:18 <Samu> it isn't wrong anymore, I'm testing with 7429 mixed in
19:10:36 <Samu> which prevents layout outside map thing
19:10:45 <glx> oh and you don't need to test on more than 256x256 ;)
19:11:14 <glx> if it works for it, it will for bigger maps too
19:12:06 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjkZN
19:12:14 <qwebirc97432> hi, where would i report a bug that might be openttd related but might be newgrf related?
19:13:07 <glx> with details, and savegame
19:13:28 <qwebirc97432> i just wasn't sure because the guidelines for bug reports on github say not to post about newgrfs
19:14:01 <TrueBrain> qwebirc97432: if you mention this in the issue, I am sure nobody would bite :)
19:14:20 <qwebirc97432> ok, i'll report it there. thanks
19:14:21 <TrueBrain> the fact that you are aware you are not sure, is for us as developers a huge breath of fresh air :D
19:14:26 <glx> if it's a newgrf issue we will found out :)
19:14:39 <TrueBrain> tnx for taking the effort qwebirc97432 :)
19:19:58 <Samu> sorry, I don't know what inline do, other than making visual studio fail at compiling, :p
19:20:19 <TrueBrain> can you understand that that approach to programming is very wrong? :)
19:20:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
19:20:59 <glx> search for inline in other headers, you'll see how it's used
19:21:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjknf
19:21:17 <glx> and ask google for inline meaning in c++
19:21:28 <andythenorth> could we extend newgrf cargo town effects?
19:21:59 <andythenorth> ok, what would be good?
19:22:11 <nielsm> also "inline" in C++ does not mean that the compiler should try to inline the function :D
19:22:19 <peter1138> I was hoping you had thought a bit further before asking.
19:22:31 <andythenorth> I have, but I haven't convinced myself yet
19:22:51 <andythenorth> my opening idea is simply increasing the cargos required for town growth
19:23:03 <andythenorth> it's probably lame
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19:23:22 <TrueBrain> nielsm: neither in C :D
19:23:47 <andythenorth> let's see if this was all solved already
19:24:52 <peter1138> andythenorth, some shit from years ago.
19:27:30 <Samu> btw, wasn't 90 degrees for ship already removed from master?
19:27:53 <andythenorth> yeah, basically cargos [xyz] required for town growth, is my idea
19:27:58 <Samu> GetAvailShipTracks in ship_cmd.cpp
19:29:11 <Samu> ah no, the setting still affects ships
19:29:23 <Samu> erm, in 1.9.0-RC2 at least
19:29:44 <peter1138> glx, it is still there in master. Hmm.
19:29:58 <andythenorth> extend 'town requires cargo xyz' beyond desert / snow
19:29:58 <peter1138> andythenorth, but more what?
19:30:19 <andythenorth> I think I know the answer to this
19:30:29 <peter1138> andythenorth, no, you need to explain yourself a bit better.
19:30:40 <peter1138> andythenorth, like, clearly. You're being a bit Samu.
19:30:52 <andythenorth> I don't have a goal, other than 'incentivise delivery of town cargos'
19:31:37 <andythenorth> 'give player a reason to deliver cargos to town black holes, additional to just £££'
19:32:07 <Samu> just checked, it's not on master anymore
19:32:10 <peter1138> But you are talking about spec features, and it needs to be defined in spec terms.
19:32:30 <andythenorth> when I do that, I usually get told to express the general problem, and stay out of programming :P
19:32:35 <peter1138> It is there in master.
19:32:56 <Samu> yes, but the setting is no longer saying it affects ships
19:32:58 <peter1138> That might explain why I had a stuck ship.
19:33:24 <andythenorth> frosch123: why was Town Control abandoned? o_O
19:33:34 <peter1138> Samu, ah, you are working backwards.
19:33:36 <andythenorth> just inertia, or a concrete reason?
19:33:55 <frosch123> andythenorth: it predates nogo
19:34:02 <frosch123> nogo solved it better
19:34:08 <peter1138> Samu, when says "it's not on master" when talking about a line of code, it makes sense that you'd still be talking about that line of code.
19:34:52 <glx> yeah the important part is not the setting description
19:35:46 <Samu> oh, sorry for the confusion
19:35:59 <glx> peter1138: only one occurence in ship_cmd.cpp
19:36:10 <Samu> I was referring the "feature" itself
19:36:25 <glx> all other are rails related
19:36:42 <peter1138> Samu, you were refering to a line of code to start with.
19:39:31 <peter1138> ^ How I handle it in multi-tile-docks.
19:39:53 <peter1138> But that's a bit more specific because I have to store bits in the map array.
19:40:14 <peter1138> I think you can just use line 172
19:40:49 <peter1138> I mean, take that line directly, don't take the function :p
19:41:40 <peter1138> Maybe not, I dunno.
19:42:07 <glx> I'd just move the full function into the header
19:42:22 <glx> it's a one line function anyway
19:45:54 <glx> removing static, keeping inline
19:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think that Town_Control draft needs to be seriously revised with GS in mind
19:46:36 <andythenorth> I want to say that GS has failed tbh
19:46:43 <andythenorth> but I don't think that's quite fair
19:46:48 <andythenorth> I use a GS in every game
19:46:55 <Samu> inline TrackBits GetTileShipTrackStatus(TileIndex tile)
19:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it could serve as a communication layer between GS and NewGRF
19:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> where the NewGRF shouldn't expect any special GS to be run
19:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the numbers always be meaningful
19:47:50 <peter1138> What was I working on?
19:47:55 <andythenorth> to expand, it's *because* I use a GS in every game that the 'oh GS solves that' answer is basically useless ;P
19:48:16 <andythenorth> TrueBrain NewDinner
19:48:24 * andythenorth just finished dinner
19:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i've eaten something, not sure it counts as Dinner
19:48:40 <peter1138> TrueBrain, yeah, I'm having a chinese buffet tonight. You're welcome to come along.
19:48:50 <peter1138> I'm gonna be well over that 2000 carolies :p
19:48:51 <TrueBrain> peter1138: sure. Be there in ... 4 hours :P
19:49:11 <peter1138> FML I'm already near it.
19:49:54 <TrueBrain> get out of the EU already
19:50:03 <andythenorth> now we're failing
19:50:18 <TrueBrain> it makes for entertaining videos, you are fine
19:50:20 <andythenorth> how many carolies in a Gu pot?
19:50:28 <andythenorth> 'lock the doors'
19:50:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, about 250-350
19:51:01 <peter1138> TrueBrain, I typo'd it once, and it's stuck :)
19:51:17 <Samu> yapf_ship.cpp calls GetEffectiveWaterClass
19:51:19 <peter1138> TrueBrain, and I like it because it means I'm not really taking them seriously.
19:52:06 <glx> unrelated to what you're doing I'd say
19:52:10 <peter1138> Oh, I remember now, as I was working on NRT I found a related issue in master.
19:52:14 <peter1138> And then I got distracted.
19:52:28 <andythenorth> how many carolies in bread and butter?
19:52:34 <andythenorth> the butter is about 2mm thick
19:52:41 <peter1138> Samu, what does GetEffectiveWaterClass have to do with anything? o_O
19:52:49 <TrueBrain> its also a function!!
19:53:08 <TrueBrain> I am pretty sure 99% of the functions don't have inline
19:53:11 <peter1138> It can't have inline.
19:53:16 <glx> inline is usually for very small and simple functions
19:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if the calorie is defined by 1l water and 1°C temperature difference, doesn't that technically make it a metric unit?
19:53:25 * andythenorth learns about inline
19:53:35 <peter1138> Yeah, it's way too long for that.
19:53:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so that makes carolies imperial, not?
19:53:56 <glx> and when using inline in header you put the whole function in the header
19:54:16 <TrueBrain> and yet again we are telling him what inline is, instead of him googling it for ... 5 minutes :P
19:54:36 <andythenorth> how big is a carolie in whitworth/bsf?
19:54:38 <TrueBrain> learn a man to fish, and he can feed his family for a lifetime .. give him a fish ..... ;)
19:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd bring up the von moltke scheme now...
19:55:49 <andythenorth> except it has irritating cookie warning
19:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: doesn't that apply for every website now?
19:56:32 <andythenorth> apparently only in the EU
19:56:48 <andythenorth> we had someone from NZ over last week who was bemused by the state of our web
19:57:06 <andythenorth> so probably they're doing IP lookup to geo-target GDPR warnings
19:57:12 <andythenorth> which is immediate fail of course :)
19:57:12 <Samu> first it says it reduces execution time, then next paragraph it says it increases execution time
19:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't worry, it's just going to get worse before it gets better
19:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: cookie warnings were a thing before GDPR
19:57:40 <LordAro> tbf, "inline" in C++ is largely ignored by the compiler these days
19:57:45 <andythenorth> to be strictly compliant, as the tin-foil people interpret GDPR, every website should be a detailed consent form *before* any consent is shown
19:58:03 <andythenorth> or maybe my typo is accurate
19:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's just now they added another layer begging you to allow them to sell your data to spam networks
19:58:09 <andythenorth> the consent now *is* the content
19:58:59 <andythenorth> anyway, so C++ inlining is just inlining?
19:59:07 <andythenorth> to save overhead?
19:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the GDPR is not about the content. it's about the advertisment around the content
19:59:19 <andythenorth> it's about the processing
19:59:26 <andythenorth> it's not about the content or the advertising
19:59:42 * andythenorth has spent 18 months working on GDPR compliance now, and still isn't done
19:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, most processing is about the advertising :p
20:00:36 <andythenorth> it's remarkable how much work GDPR compliance generates
20:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's how bureaucracies work
20:00:52 <andythenorth> and this is in a business model that is basically compliant at day zero
20:01:16 <andythenorth> other people must be having a nightmare :P
20:01:42 <andythenorth> anyway, town control
20:09:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buttercup5 opened issue #7447: Text for some railway station NewGRFs is missing/invisible https://git.io/fjkno
20:10:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 requested changes for pull request #7445: Update: Changelog for 1.9.0 and prepare for release https://git.io/fjkn6
20:12:25 <andythenorth> if there were enough town registers
20:12:30 <andythenorth> I could do supply + demand payment :P
20:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think that solves anything
20:13:50 <andythenorth> I am going by the frosch123 motto that newgrf changes need time to become clear
20:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> re:#7447 didn't we have some "validate newgrf strings" idea somewhere?
20:13:57 <andythenorth> and exploring different ideas helps that
20:14:42 <andythenorth> I quite like the idea of demand function related to town population, and amount delivered
20:14:53 <andythenorth> the 'refuse cargo acceptance' cb has always bothered me
20:15:10 <andythenorth> I suspect there's a less binary way to do that
20:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a callback that tells cargodist about industry demand?
20:15:53 <andythenorth> magical cargo routing? o_O
20:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> (overriding the builtin demand function)
20:16:05 <andythenorth> *iff* we can make it work
20:16:15 <andythenorth> it would be interesting
20:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it won't prevent cargodist sending surplus
20:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but it may help the supplies distribution
20:16:50 <andythenorth> but if it was high latency it would be very annoying
20:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist stuff is always high latency
20:17:04 <andythenorth> and latency is also a function of cargo-in-transit, on large maps
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20:17:49 <andythenorth> I suspect it might have an unpleasant feedback loop, basically slow-motion flapping
20:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in TF, demand is calculated at production time. if there's no demand (i.e. all connected stockpiles are full) no cargo is produced
20:18:59 <andythenorth> would we do it in the industry, or the station?
20:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that would be in the industry
20:19:09 <andythenorth> there's a move-cargo-to-station function
20:19:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
20:19:26 <Samu> no idea what I'm doing anymore :(
20:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think we can copy that approach, though
20:19:40 <Samu> gonna test if it compiles
20:19:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also, they needed a few iterations on that to make industries not starve
20:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> on every transportation hiccup
20:20:43 <andythenorth> there could be horrible cascade along a complex industry chain :P
20:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if a chocolate bar has 550kcal, does that mean i can eat 4 of them without feeling guilty? :p
20:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's always kilo, it's just dropped for convenience
20:22:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window. https://git.io/fjkn9
20:23:38 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, if you only eat that... no.
20:23:47 <peter1138> I bought 4 bars of halva today.
20:24:11 <peter1138> 39p each. 550kcal each. 2200kcal for £1.56.
20:24:36 <Samu> Clang 3.8 dude didn't like inline
20:24:37 <peter1138> #7448 found while fixing NRT :p
20:25:07 <peter1138> Samu, there are specific rules as to when you can and can't use inline. Don't try to guess.
20:26:17 <andythenorth> why would anyone inline unless they really know what they are doing?
20:26:56 <Samu> I don't know what I'm doing
20:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nobody ever asked "why would anyone do <X> without knowing what they're doing" and it had a good outcome
20:27:11 <Samu> just messing around with inline at this point
20:27:54 <andythenorth> I once circumvented an automated saw trigger on a plastic extrusion machine
20:27:57 <Samu> warning: inline function 'GetTileShipTrackStatus' is not defined [-Wundefined-inline]
20:28:02 <andythenorth> I didn't know what I was doing
20:28:22 <andythenorth> I thought it would make it quicker to stack the plastic
20:28:39 <nielsm> the "inline" keyword in C++ is a linkage specifier putting some special rules on what the linker may do and will require for the function
20:28:42 <peter1138> Do I have more PRs open than Samu yet?
20:28:59 <andythenorth> we could just close them all
20:29:03 <andythenorth> 'monthly reset' !
20:29:14 <andythenorth> start from scratch every 30 days
20:29:14 <peter1138> Nope, both have 12 open.
20:29:19 <peter1138> I have more closed though.
20:29:28 <nielsm> inline functions should always be defined in header files and never forward declared
20:29:30 <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 :D Nicely spotted :P
20:30:06 <Samu> visual studio doesn't complain
20:30:22 <Samu> that's why I removed inline
20:31:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #7449: Fix #7447, 3357cac847: Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'. https://git.io/fjkCU
20:32:56 <Samu> understanding why it does that is the hard part, I have no real idea how to use inline. Google doesn't help. The examples I've seen aren't clear for me.
20:33:36 <peter1138> GSF_ORIGINAL_STRINGS?
20:34:20 <frosch123> and "feature" is unused in action4 for anything else but vehicles
20:34:21 <peter1138> Yes but I think documenting it in the GSF enum is better?
20:34:47 <andythenorth> hmm what if town industries produced when delivered to?
20:34:54 * andythenorth doesn't know what
20:35:27 <Samu> undefined reference to `GetTileShipTrackStatus(unsigned int)'
20:35:55 <frosch123> medieval towns only survived by immigration
20:36:24 <andythenorth> I considered corpses already :P
20:36:28 <andythenorth> and a graveyard industry
20:36:31 <andythenorth> and hearse vehicles
20:39:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
20:39:05 <Samu> visual studio continues to build
20:40:35 <Supercheese> still April 1 for release innit?
20:45:20 <Samu> clang 3.8 already failed
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20:46:53 <andythenorth> where did the sea go in minimap?
20:52:35 <andythenorth> maybe I need an eye test :)
20:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i would maybe recommend that, if you can't distinguish those two colours :p
20:53:52 <Samu> sorry, TrueBrain, I'm gonna solve this the peter1138 way
20:54:24 <andythenorth> contrast ratio is only 1.05:1
20:54:29 <andythenorth> that is relatively low
20:55:23 <andythenorth> wcag contrast threshold is about 4.5:1
20:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that is not a default colour combination.
20:56:26 <andythenorth> it's provided, and now it's broken
20:56:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7449: Fix #7447, 3357cac847: Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'. https://git.io/fjk8k
20:56:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7449: Fix #7447, 3357cac847: Action 4 has feature 48 'original strings'. https://git.io/fjkCU
20:56:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7447: Text for some railway station NewGRFs is missing/invisible https://git.io/fjkno
20:57:04 <andythenorth> arguably both the greens are now improved relative to the new blue
20:57:12 <andythenorth> the violet is unusable
20:58:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, what's broken in your screen shot? Those colours are completely different.
20:59:00 <andythenorth> I can barely distinguish them
20:59:09 <peter1138> Use the other scheme then?
20:59:13 <andythenorth> is purple-blue colour blindness a thing?
20:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> some people cannot properly see purple
20:59:29 <peter1138> Maybe 1) your screens are shit or 2) you're colour-blind.
20:59:37 <peter1138> But that is perfectly distinguishable for me.
21:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but we have different colour schemes for different kinds of colour blindness
21:00:09 <andythenorth> contrast ratio 1.05:1?
21:00:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
21:00:30 <andythenorth> I know, I asked for them to be added
21:00:52 <peter1138> contrast ratio doesn't take account of hue.
21:01:02 <peter1138> And the hue is markedly different.
21:02:07 <andythenorth> it's only 21 degrees but ok
21:02:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjk4Y
21:02:27 <andythenorth> I just don't like taking these crap PRs from someone who doesn't know how to do quality :P
21:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: human eyes have 3 kinds of cone cells for red, green and blue. most types of colour blindness have a reduced number of one of these 3 types, and that reduces the amount of colours you can distinguish by like a factor of 100
21:03:26 <andythenorth> anyway, the solution is probably to fix the violet
21:04:05 <andythenorth> I can't use either of the greens, I can't see industries on them
21:04:06 <peter1138> My eyes are nothing special, but I can clearly see the difference :/
21:04:18 <andythenorth> I have > 99% colour vision
21:04:45 <andythenorth> but not here it seems :P
21:04:49 <peter1138> Maybe your screen is shit then.
21:04:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns https://git.io/fjksj
21:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, could be your screen
21:05:18 <andythenorth> it will have mac gamma
21:05:27 <andythenorth> which is different to Windows gamma
21:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if the aim of that colour scheme is to make the land darker to see other features better, i don't see the problem that both the land and the water are kind of dark
21:06:55 <andythenorth> I can't tell one from the other
21:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that is a you problem.
21:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no action required :p
21:07:21 <andythenorth> that's kind of offensive
21:07:31 <andythenorth> given that these colours were only added for accessibility
21:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then we need more colour schemes
21:08:39 <andythenorth> or we need to not just let people with no clue blindly change things
21:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but we added them for people with eye problem. not for people with screen problems
21:08:55 <andythenorth> 'blindly' is like the worst thing I could have said there :P
21:09:07 <andythenorth> accessibility is accessibility
21:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't know what to say anymore
21:09:55 <andythenorth> 'fix the violet'
21:10:05 <andythenorth> I'll find a new one
21:10:31 <andythenorth> what caused the sea to need to be changed?
21:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no reason why the water colour couldn't be changed in the false-colour mode, though
21:11:42 <peter1138> I'm going out. Enjoy.
21:11:48 <andythenorth> yeah the dark blue CC was the same as water, which was stupid
21:13:16 <andythenorth> and none of the map greens clash with green CC
21:13:26 <andythenorth> nor the map violet with purple CCs
21:14:01 <andythenorth> hmm actually, if height map is on, they do
21:14:16 <Samu> with company colours being darker
21:14:33 <Samu> peter went with darker water
21:14:36 <andythenorth> no we should first just try adjusting the purple
21:14:48 <andythenorth> the new blue is a definite improvement
21:18:23 * andythenorth wonders if this is just a problem on wide gamut displays
21:22:35 <TrueBrain> Samu: I never suggested a way to solve it; so I have no clue what you are on about. All I try to constantly tell you is that your patch itself needs work. I am not looking at the content as such, as in: HOW you solved it. Just WHAT you solved needs more attention. It seems you are still not grasping this .. I am running out of ways to explain this
21:23:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you know what colour profile your display runs?
21:24:08 <andythenorth> these colours are really sensitive to colour space
21:24:14 <andythenorth> I want to see what other people are seeing
21:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wouldn't know how to find out
21:28:02 <andythenorth> what linux are you running?
21:29:08 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd
21:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you asked me what colour the dress was, it was lightblue/brown
21:29:37 <andythenorth> seems colour management is optional in KDE
21:30:20 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Colours are clearly different on a LCD hardware-calibrated to something close to D65/gamma 2.2.
21:30:26 <SimYouLater> **** you all. I asked if the track scale guide was useful or not so that nobody would complain. I said "Leanden didn't like it last time". And what do I get? ****ing Pikkabird complains and says he's gotten several requests to close the topic.
21:30:37 <andythenorth> michi_cc: do you know what colour space?
21:30:54 <andythenorth> SimYouLater: that level of maturity wins you a lot
21:31:04 <SimYouLater> WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!
21:31:15 <SimYouLater> That's not immaturity, that's ANGER.
21:31:17 <andythenorth> we've found today's top idiot
21:31:44 <SimYouLater> THEN TREAT ME WITH SOME RESPECT.
21:31:45 <TrueBrain> @kban SimYouLater 60 cool off; come back when you have done so
21:31:45 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~oftc-webi@d23-16-41-35.bchsia.telus.net
21:31:46 *** SimYouLater was kicked by DorpsGek (cool off; come back when you have done so)
21:31:59 <andythenorth> he was already told, tt-forums isn't #openttd
21:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i advised against opening that topic
21:32:45 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~oftc-webi@d23-16-41-35.bchsia.telus.net
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21:33:47 <TrueBrain> we can post this on /r/entitledpeople I guess
21:33:51 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Not really sure, unfortunately. Colour space isn't part of the loaded ICM file name :) Monitor is marketed with 95% AdobeRGB, so pretty sure more colors than sRGB.
21:36:05 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd
21:36:10 <glx> what should be seen (or not) on the screenshot ?
21:36:25 <SimYouLater> Why am I not respected by any of you?
21:36:33 <andythenorth> because you act like that
21:36:35 <TrueBrain> respect is earned; not demanded
21:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> ... if you ignore all the warnings, and then complain that you haven't been warned?
21:36:51 <andythenorth> act like an idiot, get treated like an idiot
21:36:57 <glx> and your first wrods were irrespectful
21:37:04 <nielsm> do you see pikkabird in here?
21:37:06 <SimYouLater> Then explain why everyone hates the topic I made, and made politely.
21:37:24 <SimYouLater> Because Pikkabird got several requests to close my topic.
21:37:33 <andythenorth> explain why "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!" is a way to get anything done
21:37:42 <SimYouLater> It's not. It's a punishment.
21:37:43 <andythenorth> at this point, all explaining is with you, not anyone here
21:37:57 <andythenorth> if I was op, you'd be perma-banned
21:38:02 <glx> and we are not related to the forums
21:38:15 <SimYouLater> Then why is there evena link?
21:38:28 <TrueBrain> because google is also not related to us?
21:38:37 <glx> we use it, we don't manage it
21:38:44 <SimYouLater> How am I supposed to know this IRC is not part of tt-forums?
21:39:00 <glx> no openttd in tt-forums ?
21:39:03 <andythenorth> because you were told
21:39:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references. https://git.io/fjkRe
21:39:15 <SimYouLater> I was told just now.
21:39:22 <andythenorth> you were told yesterday
21:39:24 <SimYouLater> Not before I yelled at you.
21:39:29 <SimYouLater> No, no you didn't.
21:39:36 <SimYouLater> If you did, I didn't see it.
21:39:45 <Xaroth> Ignorance is not an excuse.
21:39:54 <andythenorth> you literally reply in the line after you're told
21:40:00 <SimYouLater> Whatever. I won't bother you anymore.
21:40:09 <nielsm> tt-forums has never had an IRC channel, there are IRC channels populated by some of ther same people
21:40:19 <andythenorth> I won't miss simyoulater
21:40:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7435: Fix #7433: don't use AirportSpec substitute if it's not set https://git.io/fjkRk
21:40:27 <andythenorth> the forum DMs I had
21:40:41 <andythenorth> really SYL needs some help
21:40:46 <andythenorth> and this isn't the place for therapy
21:41:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport layout would fit within map before iterating tiles. https://git.io/fjkRI
21:41:26 <nielsm> otoh I don't understand what people have against that thread of his, it never read to me like he was trying to prescribe anyone follow any kind of standard, it was just descriptive of his own observations
21:41:41 <andythenorth> there's a history of drama
21:41:49 <andythenorth> and he invents 'facts'
21:41:56 <andythenorth> about other newgrf authors
21:42:03 <glx> seeing how it behaved here
21:42:05 <andythenorth> which is incredibly irritating when it happens to you
21:42:20 <andythenorth> so anyway, violet :P
21:42:36 <andythenorth> I have the interesting problem of trying to fix it for me without breaking it for you :P
21:42:43 <glx> andythenorth: what I'm supposed to (not) see in your screenshot ?
21:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> [29.03.19 19:16] <Eddi|zuHause> <SimYouLater> Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales <-- i would rather not discuss scales. too many subjective opinions waiting to happen, no objective outcome expected.
21:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a reason why i said what i said
21:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> everything happend as i predicted. sometimes i hate being right
21:43:49 <andythenorth> glx very specifically, you should be able to see that purple exists, and blue exists, and the border between them should be very hard to see the shape of
21:44:09 * andythenorth is now learning about linux colour management :(
21:45:19 <glx> I see purple and blue, and the border is clear
21:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i find colour management settings is a bit pointless if you don't have a calibrated measurement device outside of the screen
21:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of ways to just do it wrong
21:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody really understands it
21:45:56 <andythenorth> mostly I'm interested in the colour space
21:46:17 <andythenorth> the purple-blue minimap varies widely when I switch colour spaces
21:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> colour space is a difficult topic. i had a glimpse of it when i worked at the ink factory
21:47:31 <andythenorth> notably, with Adobe RGB, the minimap is quite legible
21:47:46 <andythenorth> but with P3, not
21:48:57 <andythenorth> Adobe RGB includes some blues which P3 does not
21:50:29 <andythenorth> my assumption was that most people would have sRGB, which is more limited than Adobe RGB or P3, but that might be wrong
21:53:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/fjkR4
21:53:39 <_dp_> last time I tried linux color management my colors went crazy and I couldn't find any way to fix them...
21:54:38 <_dp_> like there is a way to apply color profile but no way to revert it %)
21:55:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/fjkRR
21:55:28 <andythenorth> I have a P3 display, not Adobe RGB
21:55:44 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7441: Feature: Per-group wagon removal flag https://git.io/fjkR0
21:55:50 <_dp_> or rather there is a way but it didn't work :(
21:55:54 <andythenorth> I can simulate Adobe RGB, but it will still drop colours
21:56:00 <andythenorth> so my assumption is that some of you might have an Adobe RGB display, and are seeing a more distinct blue
21:57:17 <andythenorth> dumping the violet from 0x82 to 0x80 trivially fixes the whole issue
21:57:21 <andythenorth> but I need to check for side effects
21:57:25 <_dp_> there are some tests for color stuff that can somewhat help even without calibration device btw
21:57:44 <andythenorth> most are based on static analysis of hue and contrast
21:57:51 <milek7> could color profiles account for diffirences in eye structure? :P
21:57:54 <andythenorth> or do you mean visual calibrations?
21:58:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7442: Change: [SDL] Do not offer video smaller than 640x480 https://git.io/fjkRa
22:01:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc requested changes for pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window. https://git.io/fjkRo
22:02:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7442: Change: [SDL] Do not offer video smaller than 640x480 https://git.io/fjkJ6
22:02:23 <michi_cc> Oh, and #7379, #7379, #7379 :p
22:03:55 <glx> darker purple but same map for me :)
22:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <milek7> could color profiles account for diffirences in eye structure? :P <-- maybe it could emphasize the difficult-to-see colours on the cost of losing some ordinary ones
22:04:33 <nielsm> very different colours to me
22:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the black area seems blacker
22:05:44 <glx> dark red spots are more visible
22:06:08 <Samu> isnt' that the same image?
22:06:18 <andythenorth> I am trying to find some non-apple devices to test on
22:06:26 <Samu> nvm i missed the other link
22:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you got some moiree going on on the right :)
22:07:12 <michi_cc> andythenorth: First screenshot the land is darker, but also has more contrast to the sea.
22:07:41 <andythenorth> nielsm: I tried to take a picture, but my phone colour corrects, and restores the difference :P
22:07:46 <michi_cc> I tried a screen photo just now as well, unfortunately the resulting image doesn't even come close to how it really looks.
22:07:48 <glx> nielsm: I don't see the dark red spots on your photo
22:07:55 <andythenorth> i.e. on my phone screen the map is absolutely legible
22:08:03 <andythenorth> I should play OpenTTD via my phone camera? o_O
22:09:01 <nielsm> glx they are there, just lost in noise etc. in the photo
22:09:08 <nielsm> they are visible on screen
22:09:16 <andythenorth> it's ridiculously sensitive to camera angle relative to screen
22:09:17 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fjkRH
22:10:05 <nielsm> I could find my DSLR and adjust settings to get a more accurate representation
22:10:06 <glx> anyway for me dark version is better
22:10:10 <nielsm> but that's too much effort
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22:10:19 <Samu> i prefer the darker purple
22:10:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhdYo
22:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i quite like the darker version as well
22:10:45 * andythenorth just checking nothing else has disappeared
22:11:32 <andythenorth> don't know if I need to adjust the heightmap colour range
22:11:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fhhNw
22:12:02 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd
22:12:28 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7435: Fix #7433: don't use AirportSpec substitute if it's not set https://git.io/fjT6g
22:12:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built. https://git.io/fjTwi
22:13:03 <SimYouLater> Not an excuse. I'm not getting away with yelling at you all just because I didn't know this isn't a TT-Forums IRC. I'm saying that was my motive, nothing else.
22:13:28 <glx> yelling is never a solution
22:13:30 <TrueBrain> you could also try saying: sorry guys
22:13:53 <SimYouLater> Yelling isn't a solution, it's a punishment. As for sorry, no, I'm not.
22:14:15 <andythenorth> see what I mean?
22:14:18 <TrueBrain> @kban *!~oftc-webi@d23-16-41-35.bchsia.telus.net
22:14:18 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: *!~oftc-webi@d23-16-41-35.bchsia.telus.net is not in #openttd.
22:14:19 <Xaroth> Ignorance is not an excuse
22:14:27 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I cannot do that it seems ..
22:14:48 <andythenorth> the long rambling forum DMs I received from SYL literally made no sense
22:15:03 <andythenorth> they contained conversations and facts that just hadn't happened
22:15:19 <TrueBrain> well, now he did it in public. This is just not okay, and not how we work in this community
22:15:41 <TrueBrain> saying you were wrong, refusing to say sorry, that is inexcusable :)
22:16:30 *** glx sets mode: +b *!~oftc-webi@d23-16-41-35.bchsia.telus.net
22:16:46 <andythenorth> hmm for the default green minimap, the heightmap greens don't relate to the flat green :)
22:17:00 <andythenorth> they're different hues
22:18:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7316: Change: Always report error when ordering a road vehicle to wrong type of road stop. https://git.io/fjkRj
22:19:27 <andythenorth> FFS, my editor converts tabs to spaces
22:19:39 <andythenorth> which will fail here :P
22:19:49 <glx> stupid editor (mine does the opposite)
22:20:20 <andythenorth> it would be fine if I could teach it to do it by file type :P
22:20:25 <glx> not very nice when editing cmake files
22:20:28 <andythenorth> tabs don't go so well in .py
22:21:38 <glx> yeah python indentation is silly :)
22:21:50 <glx> it even has a meaning in code IIRC
22:22:46 <andythenorth> wow, I just read a post comparing whether tabs or spaces are more optimal for writing html
22:22:49 <andythenorth> conclusion: doesn't matter
22:22:52 <andythenorth> good use of 1 minute
22:23:13 <glx> in c++ it's just to ease reading, almost all blanks are ignored at compile time
22:24:14 <glx> I'd say tab is better for html, smaller page size ;)
22:25:03 <_dp_> glx, some blanks are still relevant in c++: i+++++i :p
22:25:13 <_dp_> glx, also that thing with >>
22:25:25 <glx> I said almost, not all ;)
22:26:10 <glx> but all useless blanks are skiped
22:27:07 <michi_cc> _dp_: That >> thing was fixed with C++11.
22:28:05 <Samu> checking if a ship can enter the third tile from the direction the dock is in (as I am guessing that is the intended functionality here).
22:32:26 <Samu> it's fine, it only matters if the ship is in the destination tile
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22:35:05 <Samu> to reach the destination tile (the dock)
22:35:18 <Samu> there has to be a water track
22:35:35 <Samu> it's fine, I just don't know what TrueBrain wants now :(
22:36:27 <Samu> i no longer check for tile flatness, or tile types, or any other tile types
22:36:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436 https://git.io/fjk0R
22:37:46 <Samu> it is essentially doing what it used to do
22:38:10 <Samu> with the extra of also allowing placement in those 4 more situations
22:39:02 <andythenorth> glx: how much smaller are the page sizes with gzip? :P
22:39:22 <Samu> i re-checked commit message, I see nothing wrong with it anymore
22:39:30 <glx> yeah now most client support compressed pages
22:39:47 <andythenorth> trick question: how much smaller with whitespace removal :P
22:39:57 <andythenorth> anyway, I did a PR!
22:40:02 <andythenorth> do I get hearts and flowers?
22:43:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436 https://git.io/fjk0g
22:45:30 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC
22:46:51 <andythenorth> yay I am only 999 commits behind TrueBrain
22:47:37 <Samu> i need 7429 in master, so that 7424 makes sense
22:48:05 <TrueBrain> you go girl! (talking to andythenorth)
22:48:14 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you don't know my gender :P
22:48:33 <andythenorth> should do it like twitter bios
22:48:40 <andythenorth> he / him, she / her, etc
22:49:02 <andythenorth> is the entire channel cisgender male?
22:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> did you just assume my gender?
22:50:20 <andythenorth> I am rolling a dice
22:52:29 <andythenorth> how many in the channel?
22:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say you find more bots in here than trans people
22:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but the probability is nonzero
22:53:38 <andythenorth> @calc 100 * 0.003
22:53:59 <andythenorth> yeah taking the EU reported percentage, it's 0.3 people in the channel
22:54:08 <andythenorth> but Twitter gets very excited about it all
22:54:26 * andythenorth has mostly quit Twitter, and FB
22:57:11 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436 https://git.io/fjk0R
23:03:30 <milek7> i too find that border hard too see
23:05:09 <andythenorth> is the improved version improved?
23:05:31 <andythenorth> is your display old or new milek7? :)
23:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the thing with this kind of generalization is, there are so many "minorities" that you're eventually bound to hit one of them that is overrepresented in a small nonrepresentative group
23:06:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: no argument
23:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like, in a channel about trains, you're more likely to find people on the far side of the autism spectrum
23:06:39 <andythenorth> unless autism is under-diagnosed in the general population
23:06:58 <andythenorth> and only diagnosed when people pursue visible dedicated interests, like trains
23:07:24 <andythenorth> and anything that isn't statistically measured, might be under-measured :P
23:07:36 <andythenorth> [brain explodes]
23:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's loads of ways to do statistics wrong :p
23:11:30 <milek7> andythenorth: DELL P2416D
23:13:23 <andythenorth> milek7: which OS? :)
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23:14:18 <andythenorth> thx, not sure what that says about colour spaces, but it's not just me :D
23:17:36 <milek7> i have deuteranomaly, though i don't know if it matters here
23:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that just crashes my browser tab
23:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that might be a local problem
23:19:12 <andythenorth> yeah deuteranomaly might cause blue-purple issues :)
23:19:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references. https://git.io/fjTgY
23:20:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport layout would fit within map before iterating tiles. https://git.io/fjTtQ
23:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my / is full :/
23:26:53 *** rocky11384497 has joined #openttd
23:27:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window. https://git.io/fjkn9
23:28:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7448: Change: Shorten engine rail type drop down in autoreplace window. https://git.io/fjkEl
23:29:11 <andythenorth> that X-rite test
23:30:04 <andythenorth> it's quite tedious
23:30:08 <andythenorth> 0 is the best score
23:34:24 <peter1138> Oh the colour arranging thing.
23:34:36 <peter1138> Done that before, don't remember my score.
23:34:40 <peter1138> But right now, my belly hurts.
23:34:45 <peter1138> I ate WAAAAY too much.
23:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently my score is 16
23:37:49 <andythenorth> the blue-greens really hurt me to do
23:38:01 <andythenorth> one of my eyes sees more blue, the other more yellow
23:38:04 <peter1138> 1 plate of starters
23:38:10 <peter1138> 3 plates of chinese
23:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you live with yourself...
23:39:12 <peter1138> Probably several thousand.
23:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i've got 3 bumps in my colour chart
23:39:52 <peter1138> mv: cannot stat 'windows-dependencies/installed': No such file or directory
23:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the biggest one in the pink section
23:40:19 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: well it's either your display, your eyes, or your brain :)
23:41:38 <Samu> what was the point of that video?
23:41:49 <Samu> meh, nevermind, I better not know
23:43:29 <Samu> yes, it's finally mastered, I can now do AI API stuff
23:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> could very well be either of those :p
23:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ...deleting some kernels... this is gonna be good :)
23:46:05 <andythenorth> anyway all fixed
23:46:21 <glx> ok they probably have changed something on azure again
23:46:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: my bump was a bit further to the right
23:46:56 <peter1138> I have a bump. It's a food-baby.
23:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "Removed Packages: 31"
23:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "kernel-default, kernel-default, kernel-default, ..."
23:47:46 <andythenorth> when I went to Texas I got a cheese baby
23:47:51 <andythenorth> cheese on all foods
23:52:16 <nielsm> "well... yes, that's the intention"
23:52:33 <glx> hmm it's our file that is broken it seems
23:53:26 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
23:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "State : clean, degraded"
23:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right
23:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the problem :p
23:55:12 <glx> TrueBrain: windows-dependencies.zip is missing all the dependencies
23:55:45 <andythenorth> I should video these ships in these locks
23:55:50 <Samu> I'm designing an AI function going into ScriptAirport. Help me with name
23:55:53 <andythenorth> two-tiles wide canal
23:56:00 <andythenorth> looks nice, going up and down
23:56:05 <nielsm> is it possible to just delete a widget from a window during construction? :(
23:56:07 <Samu> IsNoiseLevelAllowed, IsNoiseAllowed, IsNoiseLevelIncreaseAllowed
23:56:18 <nielsm> without destroying the template nested widgets spec
23:56:45 <Samu> Is Noise Level Increase Allowed for this airport type on this tile
23:56:49 <glx> TrueBrain: started between [22:57:16] <+DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7450: Adjust violet smallmap colour 1 shade darker after #7436 https://git.io/fjk0R and [23:19:58] <+DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references. https://git.io/fjTgY
23:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so, lsscsi shows the 4th disk, why is mdadm not activating it?
continue to next day ⏵
