IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-03-29
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00:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you're doing the right thing here
00:00:39 *** buttercup has joined #openttd
00:00:41 <SimYouLater> Alright. I'll let you explain.
00:01:18 <LordAro> it's difficult to say anything without knowing what your current setup is, and what on earth this "make" thing is that you've found
00:01:50 <SimYouLater> gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o src/nutracks.nml src/nutracks.pnml nmlc src/nutracks.nml PAUSE
00:02:16 <SimYouLater> If you need more, just tell me and I'll upload a zip of it for you.
00:02:21 <LordAro> that is, oddly, exactly what you want
00:02:26 <LordAro> though i imagine you're missing gcc
00:02:36 <LordAro> since i presume you're running nmlc via cmd?
00:03:27 <SimYouLater> Just found gcc. Sorry, I've been away from coding for a while.
00:04:38 <LordAro> well gcc's been around since 1980, so...
00:04:52 <SimYouLater> Well. It's going to take 30 minutes to copy the gcc folder over to the Nutracks folder.
00:05:25 <LordAro> can i ask what you've found?
00:05:52 <SimYouLater> That's what I found. Also in my RIS folder.
00:05:59 <peter1138> Yeah I don't think you want to be copying that over the Nutracks folder.
00:06:16 <LordAro> SimYouLater: look up MSYS2
00:06:22 <LordAro> it will make your life a lot easier
00:07:46 <SimYouLater> Oh. It's versioning software. I can't deal with that stuff. It's only easier if you are willing to spend hours setting up and learning how to use it.
00:08:28 <peter1138> 2) versioning is definitely worth it
00:09:00 <LordAro> peter1138: RISv2.final.final.zip not good enough for you?
00:09:34 <SimYouLater> Not for me. I can't deal with versioning. Last time I tried to do it, I ended up uninstalling it and never looking back.
00:10:14 <LordAro> i think you will struggle in future without it
00:10:19 <SimYouLater> What does MSYS2 do?
00:10:22 <LordAro> there's a reason they exist
00:12:13 <LordAro> MSYS2 is, very simply, a development environment for Windows
00:12:29 <LordAro> contains things like make, gcc, python, whatever
00:13:02 <LordAro> all in a way that means that you don't have to think about installing things individually, nor copy everything into the same directory like a crazy person
00:14:30 <LordAro> hmm, that was a bit much, my apologies. but still, shunning a major development standard practice isn't going to work out well long term
00:14:39 <LordAro> we even taught Samu how to use version control
00:15:01 <SimYouLater> If I'm going to do this, I need to have voice chat to help me set it up. I'm assuming MSYS is a local thing I put on my computer, not cloud-based versioning.
00:16:50 <LordAro> but yes, it is a local system thing
00:25:53 <SimYouLater> error: failed to commit transaction (unexpected error) Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
00:26:10 <SimYouLater> MSYS isn't working right, in spite of following instructions to the letter.
00:26:44 <Samu> I'm using version control? I probably am, I dunno
00:26:58 <Samu> I tend to do a lot of stuff that I don't know
00:27:22 <LordAro> Samu: git and svn are version control systems, yes
00:27:33 <LordAro> SimYouLater: that error seems incomplete
00:27:38 <Samu> ah, that's what you call version control
00:27:39 <LordAro> something above it, i think
00:28:40 <Samu> for me, they're patch switchers, sort of
00:28:48 <SimYouLater> It said something about taking longer than 10 seconds with too little incoming data.
00:28:57 <SimYouLater> For multiple packages.
00:29:15 <SimYouLater> Wait, I think it worked the second time.
00:29:22 <LordAro> SimYouLater: sounds like your internet connection might have some issues
00:29:31 <LordAro> especially if you're still doing that gcc download
00:29:48 <LordAro> Samu: even patches are sort of a version control system
00:29:51 <LordAro> just... less automated
00:30:50 <Samu> just finished playing tetris in path of exile
00:39:29 <SimYouLater> Okay, I got everything installed. The next step is about compiling OpenTTD, so I assume I'm done.
00:42:10 <LordAro> rerun that make.bat script from the msys terminal
00:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "Welcome to the April 2018 Update"... am i late to the party?
00:43:05 <LordAro> i'm not sure they've fully rolled out the October 2018 release yet
00:43:29 <SimYouLater> $ cd C:\TTDTools\GRFs\! Useful Sources !\nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: !\nutracks: event not found
00:44:07 <peter1138> Uh oh, strange characters in paths
00:44:09 <LordAro> '!' tend to interfere with pathnames
00:45:00 <SimYouLater> $ cd C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: cd: too many arguments
00:45:32 <LordAro> oh right, backslashes
00:46:01 <LordAro> MSYS uses a slightly different way of doing paths - use "/c/TTDTools/..."
00:46:17 <LordAro> i think quoting it would work as well
00:46:45 <SimYouLater> $ cd /c/TTDTools/GRFs/Useful Sources/nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: cd: too many arguments
00:47:09 <peter1138> Still need to quote it.
00:47:17 <SimYouLater> Quoting worked, yeah.
00:48:13 <SimYouLater> $ bash: run: command not found
00:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: is that the one that wiped your hard disk if you used custom paths?
00:48:36 <Samu> started helistation, airport type 8, the last one
00:48:59 <LordAro> SimYouLater: what did you try to do?
00:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the October 2018 update
00:49:20 <LordAro> something to do with onedrive, iirc
00:49:32 <SimYouLater> Tried to run the make.bat from msys terminal
00:49:57 <SimYouLater> Fortunately, my hard drive has not been wiped.
00:50:09 <LordAro> SimYouLater: and you typed "run" ?
00:50:22 <SimYouLater> Yes. run make.bat
00:50:40 <LordAro> well, "run" isn't a thing, in cmd or in msys
00:50:53 <SimYouLater> Oh. Not sure where I got that idea.
00:50:55 <LordAro> luckily, you should just be able to do "./make.bat"
00:51:10 <LordAro> until you immediately find that the file isn't executable, anyway
00:51:21 <SimYouLater> $ ./make.bat C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225>gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o src/nutracks.nml src/nutracks.pnml src/nutracks.pnml:11:10: fatal error: src/compatibility.pnml: No such file or directory #include "src/compatibility.pnml" ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ compilation terminated. C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225>nmlc src/nutracks.nml 'nmlc' is not recognized as an internal o
00:52:02 <LordAro> it's now trying to preprocess the pnml file into an nml file
00:52:09 <LordAro> only it's missing all the other files it includes
00:52:22 <LordAro> (and then it's also not picking up your nmlc install, but that's later)
00:55:40 <SimYouLater> So what do I do to keep going?
00:56:19 <LordAro> find the files that are missing, probably
00:57:08 <glx> _STL_VERIFY(_Off == 0 || _Ptr, "cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator");
00:57:14 <SimYouLater> The files aren't missing. compatibility.pnml is in the src folder.
00:57:27 <glx> this assert doesn't feel good
00:57:44 <glx> let's retry to trigger it
00:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: it's probably expecting to be run in a different folder?
00:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: try "-I." or something like that
01:00:24 <SimYouLater> I'm not sure how to use "-I."
01:01:25 <SimYouLater> bash: -I.: command not found
01:01:41 <LordAro> edit the make.bat script
01:02:02 <LordAro> it's a flag for gcc so it knows where to look for files
01:02:35 <SimYouLater> I changed it back. What do you need me to do?
01:04:59 <SimYouLater> Oh. I see. Misread that.
01:05:28 <SimYouLater> It worked. Now I just need to figure out why nmlc isn't being found?
01:06:24 <LordAro> right, this needs your PATH variable amending
01:07:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator" https://git.io/fjTo7
01:07:01 <LordAro> alternatively, for a short term hack, is the nmlc executable nearby?
01:07:42 <glx> just another vector issue ;)
01:07:48 <SimYouLater> Let's do it the long way.
01:08:35 <peter1138> I mean, there's no such error for me, but...
01:08:55 <SimYouLater> I can't seem to find nmlc in spite of being able to compile my Iron Horse addon.
01:09:04 <peter1138> Me too, but not an MSVC debug build.
01:09:14 <LordAro> right, purely for checking that it works at all, we can run: "export PATH=/c/path/where/my/nmlc/is/installed:$PATH"
01:10:09 <SimYouLater> bash: xport: command not found
01:10:42 <LordAro> SimYouLater: accuracy and precision is an important part of programming and development
01:10:50 <LordAro> computers are not good at guessing what you want
01:11:05 <SimYouLater> I know, I'm just not a very good programmer.
01:11:22 <LordAro> so look at what i told you to run, and then look at the error message
01:12:08 <SimYouLater> 'export' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
01:12:17 <SimYouLater> I do not know what MSVC is
01:12:34 <LordAro> SimYouLater: also, learning when to google
01:12:42 <LordAro> but export being missing is.. unexpected
01:12:55 <LordAro> oh... you put that in the batch file, didn't you?
01:13:04 <SimYouLater> Why do I need Visual C?!
01:13:05 <LordAro> run this in the msys terminal, not in the file
01:13:16 <LordAro> SimYouLater: you don't, there are 2 separate conversations happening here
01:13:46 <glx> sometimes there are more than 2 conversations ;)
01:16:27 <glx> ok I need to switch to a pre vector branch to download some newgrfs
01:16:43 <SimYouLater> LordAro: So, if export is missing, what now?
01:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: you mean like 1.9.0?
01:17:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator" https://git.io/fjTob
01:17:53 <LordAro> SimYouLater: i already told you, read again
01:18:56 <SimYouLater> I am blind for some reason. Please tell me again. God, I HATE IRC.
01:19:53 <glx> you are not doing it in mingw window
01:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: in a cmd window, type "bash"
01:21:13 <LordAro> SimYouLater: nah, i'm asleep now
01:21:28 <SimYouLater> 'bash' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
01:21:38 <glx> LordAro: I'll try your solution
01:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: well, then you must start a mingw window, not a cmd window
01:22:06 <LordAro> i like how you managed to use "mingw", a word i've not used at all so far
01:22:13 <LordAro> and also try to use WSL
01:22:26 * LordAro really actually sleep now
01:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well... mingw, msys, these words are interchangable for me
01:22:53 <SimYouLater> For **** sake, I tried it in cmd and mingw!
01:23:17 <glx> export definitely should work in msys window
01:24:32 <SimYouLater> Export literally diid nothing visible in msys
01:24:48 <SimYouLater> Even though I changed the directory with cd
01:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but it didn't complain...
01:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that means it "works"
01:25:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator" https://git.io/fjTop
01:26:50 <SimYouLater> Alright, it looks like I accidentally found RANDOM_LC_YEAR
01:26:52 <SimYouLater> RANDOM_INTRODUCTION_YEAR(switchname, param_modern_lc_year, old_group, modern_group)
01:27:01 <SimYouLater> What do I do with the above?
01:27:10 <SimYouLater> Because I am done with MSYS2
01:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you can be helped at this point
01:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> because there's gonna be 20 other things where that came from
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01:30:43 <SimYouLater> Then stop acting like it's ****ing easy to read thin text on a white background when I'm used to using Discord, which is so much easier to read.
01:31:12 <glx> discord uses IRC internally ;)
01:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> any sane IRC client will allow you to change font size and colour scheme
01:31:29 <SimYouLater> Then why can't this IRC be a discord channel?
01:31:50 <SimYouLater> I don't have an IRC client.
01:32:01 <SimYouLater> I'm using the website.
01:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you're in luck, there's like 2 dozen IRC clients
01:34:24 <Samu> all airport types on all tiles test passed!
01:38:26 <Samu> it only took me... 8 hours 10 minutes
01:40:58 <Samu> now i wanna test that cargo production thing
01:43:00 <Samu> oh it's already mixed in master
01:46:23 <Samu> where do I have to be? inside it or in master?
01:46:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built. https://git.io/fjTKJ
01:46:59 <glx> and from outside any pr branch
01:47:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built. https://git.io/fjTKU
01:50:11 <Samu> it deleted pr/3 too, I dunno where that one came from
01:52:41 <Samu> oh, interesting that was peter1138's fault then
01:53:08 <Samu> it was rejected by truebrain
01:53:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built. https://git.io/fjTKL
01:55:36 <Samu> what the heck gitgub-desktop-petern
01:56:02 <Samu> i have no idea somebody making a PR on my repository would create all this stuff here
01:57:17 <glx> you may have click on the "open this file in githhub desktop" button
01:58:42 <Samu> how do i make it go away? :(
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02:00:29 <Samu> github-desktop-petern is under remote
02:00:57 <glx> the PR won't disappear, it's on github
02:01:39 <glx> if you want to remove the remote you need to do it from CLI I think
02:02:57 <Samu> nevermind, this may actually be useful
02:03:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator" https://git.io/fjTKs
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02:28:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7424: Add: Kdtree for AirportGetNearestTown https://git.io/fjTK0
02:48:03 <Samu> with cargo production around patch(already in master) + $7424, it went from 800 ms to 60 ms avg. AI is looking for a location to place an airport
02:48:26 <Samu> will 7424 ever be merged?
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03:28:46 <Samu> ScriptTile::GetCargoProduction (8,40%)
03:29:07 <Samu> ScriptTile::GetCargoAcceptance (7,04%)
03:29:56 <Samu> ScriptAirport::GetNoiseLevelIncrease (9,92%)
03:30:33 <Samu> ScriptAirport::GetNearestTown(9,48%)
03:31:57 <Samu> ScriptList::RemoveItem (5,05%)
03:32:20 <Samu> ScriptList::AddItem (5,61%)
03:33:32 <Samu> @calc 8.4 + 7.04 + 9.92 + 9.48 + 5.05 + 5.61
03:35:58 <Samu> GetNoiseLevelIncrease and GetNearestTown both call AirportGetNearestTown
03:37:29 <Samu> local noise = AIAirport.GetNoiseLevelIncrease(tile, a);
03:37:29 <Samu> local allowed_noise = AITown.GetAllowedNoise(AIAirport.GetNearestTown(tile, a));
03:37:29 <Samu> if (noise > allowed_noise) continue;
03:49:18 <Samu> how about, instead of Get the noise that will be added to the nearest town if an airport was built at this tile, it was a bool that returns true or false
03:50:50 <Samu> maybe "IsNoiseLevelAllowed(tile, airport_type)"
03:51:23 <Samu> goal is to avoid repeating AirportGetNearestTown
03:59:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7427: Codechange: Use already-known distance between town and airport instead of recalculating it. https://git.io/fjT6z
03:59:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7435: Fix #7433: don't use AirportSpec substitute if it's not set https://git.io/fjT6g
05:21:58 <Samu> I wish dark blue on the minimap was not invisible
05:22:16 <Samu> can't tell apart from water
05:39:17 <Samu> static const uint8 PC_WATER = 0xCA; ///< Dark blue palette colour for water.
05:39:35 <Samu> how to make water even darker?
05:46:46 <Samu> perhaps a bit too dark now
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06:00:40 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTiR
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07:47:44 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7437: Fix #7434: Incorrect use of vector iterator. https://git.io/fjTP4
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10:23:23 <andythenorth> oh yes, life admin
10:28:08 <andythenorth> what cargo does an Engine Plant produce?
11:23:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee opened issue #7438: Music sets (including DOS music) broken after trying other music sets https://git.io/fjTMu
11:25:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7438: Music sets (including DOS music) broken after trying other music sets https://git.io/fjTMw
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11:35:52 <Corns_> q about the localisation strings: do English_AU.txt and English_US.txt fallback to using strings from English.txt?
11:36:26 <planetmaker> Corns_, yes. Every language falls back to english.txt
11:36:53 <planetmaker> however, despite that, it is very much recommended to fill-in every string, even when it is exactly identical
11:37:00 <Corns_> ah sweet, thank you :) i suspected but wasn't sure if it was intended. less work for me :)
11:37:13 <planetmaker> just hit "copy" and commit. Done
11:37:31 <planetmaker> because it leaves an ugly "this translation is incomplete", if not filled-in :)
11:37:49 <Corns_> that's true, thanks :)
11:37:56 <planetmaker> and it also makes sure that the strings are actually reviewed to fit the translation
11:38:09 <planetmaker> in the English cases wrt spelling
11:38:24 <Corns_> oh yeah, with things like colour vs color
11:38:58 <planetmaker> and things like ... tram vs. trolley bus (?)
11:39:36 <Corns_> HAHAHAH idk, it's trams in australia
11:39:41 <Corns_> but yeah i get your point
11:39:50 <planetmaker> dunno, I'm not English speaker of any variety :P
11:40:31 <Corns_> i can't tell from across the screen :p
11:40:55 <planetmaker> that's the beauty of IRC. And... doesn't exactly matter :)
11:41:34 <planetmaker> (and if I were... I'd speak NZ English :P)
11:42:25 <planetmaker> I were || so short of emigrating there :)
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12:02:25 <planetmaker> please vote for a titlegame. There's not yet many votes and it's a tight race between savegames
12:03:00 <planetmaker> or more titlegames, if you like. One or more
12:03:29 <Samu> where is the topic, i'll look at it
12:06:09 <Samu> oh, i can has multiple choices
12:12:44 <Samu> hmm there is no topic in the forum about it? or I can't find it
12:12:56 <planetmaker> there is. I just posted
12:13:26 <planetmaker> so should be in the "new posts" section
12:13:32 <Samu> oh, there is TrueBrain's, but with a title like that, hard to notice
12:13:50 <planetmaker> it's not TBs... kamnet started it as I asked him
12:15:43 <Samu> first time I voted for such thing
12:17:01 <Samu> So 24. Mär 20:26:36 CET 2019, weird language?
12:18:07 <planetmaker> well, such happens when you don't switch locale to English in commands
12:19:12 <Samu> eh, devs are allowed to vote? :(
12:19:34 <Samu> there are more devs than ppl voting these days, I suppose
12:22:25 <peter1138> planetmaker, yes we are. We didn't make the title games, so why not?
12:24:29 <planetmaker> indeed... why wouldn't we vote? It's not that I favour our votes... it's just a list of votes where each bears identical weight
12:24:45 <peter1138> Yeah that was meant to be directed to Samu!
12:25:42 <planetmaker> also frosch and Alberth still need to vote... but I cannot highlight them currently. Will any? I'll be offline tonight
12:27:11 <planetmaker> Samu, and by all means: feel free to motivate whoever you think should vote, too!
12:27:26 <planetmaker> it's not like I can do really more than ask people the way I did
12:29:08 <Samu> ST2, tell ppl to vote for title game
12:32:53 <Samu> what would u say to a News Feed?
12:33:25 <Samu> to advertise this kind of stuff
12:35:36 <Samu> oh, or that, have that "post" also posted in-game
12:36:03 <peter1138> Speaking of news, how's it going with Steam?
12:36:04 <planetmaker> he. interesting idea. Like... factorio
12:36:12 <planetmaker> not going currently ...
12:36:35 <planetmaker> I'm pondering whether to simply privately register it... I guess I shall do that
12:38:35 <peter1138> Heh, got a video on in the background, 59 ways of cooking eggs.
12:38:49 <peter1138> First method: Raw. In glass. As an "egg-shot"
12:39:02 <peter1138> Second method... same, but with Tabasco.
12:39:39 <planetmaker> simply boiled. with a bit of ... hm...maggi?
12:39:40 <peter1138> Third method: Same as second but with liquor
12:40:49 <planetmaker> hm... ingame news feed?
12:41:11 <planetmaker> special one-time content served to clients from our content server to be displayed upon start-up
12:41:13 <peter1138> In-game or in-title screen?
12:41:24 <planetmaker> title screen or before title screen. I guess
12:41:43 <peter1138> On the title screen.
12:42:00 <peter1138> Add a ticker underneath the menu window.
12:42:11 <planetmaker> could probably be text-only. ^^ like that or so. Maybe
12:42:19 <planetmaker> would be good. We support URLs
12:43:01 <planetmaker> we'd need to store something like a unique-ID of the content and only display it once. Or it'd be annoying, I think
12:43:07 <planetmaker> and it'd need an expiry date
12:43:34 <Samu> "Recent News: blabla " just below Exit button in main menu, I would say"
12:43:42 <peter1138> I don't think so, just make sure there's no many items on the news feed.
12:44:10 <peter1138> It'd be annoying if it was an institial window.
12:44:10 <planetmaker> Hm. So like always display that?
12:44:34 <peter1138> Yeah. Also, it should be threaded so the menu appears before it bothers doing any news feed fetch
12:44:36 <planetmaker> I meant like an annoucement "vote for titlegame" would not make sense beyond Monday
12:44:48 <Samu> or maybe below window title, above New Game
12:45:08 <planetmaker> but that could be done server-side, I guess
12:45:37 <planetmaker> below the existing title window or at its bottom would probably easiest to add. And least annoying to read
12:46:02 <peter1138> planetmaker, yes, we just remove it from the news feed.
12:46:15 <peter1138> News feed server-side would require extra stuff.
12:46:24 <peter1138> have an expiry date in the feed so openttd can filter it.
12:46:32 <peter1138> If you do that, then the news feed can be static.
12:46:43 <peter1138> Which I think would please TB.
12:46:43 <planetmaker> the latter is what I thought-of initially
12:47:05 <peter1138> yes, below main window, either just below, or near bottom.
12:49:37 <peter1138> I wonder what how much info the news feed needs
12:49:47 <peter1138> Could be just a title, expiry date, and a URL.
12:50:17 <peter1138> Although, expiry date would mean we need to get the current real date in openttd. Dunno if we have that anywhere.
13:13:50 <andythenorth> 'Vehicle Engines'?
13:13:55 <andythenorth> 'Vehicle Windows'?
13:19:27 <andythenorth> 16 cargos unpicks some prior assumptions :P
13:22:07 <peter1138> Hmm, nearly lunch time.
13:25:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eekee commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key https://git.io/fjTST
13:26:02 <andythenorth> peter1138: glad you said that
13:26:04 <andythenorth> I was about to ask
13:26:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTSL
13:28:43 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTSm
13:52:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key https://git.io/fjTSw
14:04:26 <Samu> how do I know if openttd is running in 32bpp?
14:06:49 <Samu> holy crap, ship movement in abase is terribad when doing 90 turns
14:07:09 <peter1138> The whole thing is bad.
14:09:08 <peter1138> Samu, unless you try really hard, OpenTTD is always in 32bpp these days.
14:11:10 <peter1138> If you have newgrf developer tools on, you can press ^B to enable bounding boxes. The aBase ships are nowhere near their bounding boxes.
14:13:47 <Samu> i don't know what James103 meant with those RGB values
14:14:17 <Samu> i zoomed 800% a screenshot, and I see no difference between dark blue and water
14:14:39 <peter1138> Samu, he just posts random unnecessary stuff to the issues sometimes.
14:16:03 <Samu> if (t == MP_WATER) return MKCOLOUR_XXXX(PC_WATER);
14:16:31 <Samu> #define MKCOLOUR_XXXX(x) (MKCOLOUR(0x01010101) * (uint)(x))
14:16:55 <Samu> static const uint8 PC_WATER = 0xCA; ///< Dark blue palette colour for water.
14:17:07 <Samu> who's a color math expert ? :p
14:19:05 <Samu> MKCOLOUR_XXXX(_legend_land_owners[_company_to_list_pos[o]].colour);
14:20:10 <Samu> I'm assuming _legend_land_owners[_company_to_list_pos[o]].colour == PC_WATER
14:24:43 <Samu> [4] is Dark Blue company
14:24:50 <Samu> colour is 202 on both :(
14:29:25 <Samu> about newgrf industries, uhm... I need newgrfs
14:31:10 <Samu> not sure how I'm testing that
14:31:44 <Samu> do u know of industries that use dark blue?
14:34:38 <Samu> uh oh... cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator
14:34:50 <Samu> i was going to download FIRS :(
14:53:14 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7347: Save overwrite confirmation doesn't respond to enter key https://git.io/fjTHf
15:00:28 <peter1138> Yeah I fixed that one.
15:00:33 <peter1138> Oh it's not merged yet.
15:02:20 <andythenorth> Samu: FIRS is not all newgrfs
15:03:58 <peter1138> Map colours listed, nice.
15:06:45 <andythenorth> also all the data is there in python, so eh, why not :P
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15:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the blue thing always annoyed me. as i always play as dark blue
15:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i have much need to use the company view, but...
15:24:31 <andythenorth> the minimap has some usability issues :P
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15:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: your industries don't have any dark blue?
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15:42:33 <Samu> _colour_gradient[0][5] = 202
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15:43:26 <Samu> _colour_gradient[PC_DARK_BLUE][5] = 202
15:43:58 <peter1138> So, er, what's the issue? Didn't you already fix it?
15:44:09 <Samu> just wondering what's better
15:44:21 <Samu> darker company colours or darker water
15:45:24 <peter1138> Don't think it matters, that it was not the same colour helped.
15:46:59 <Samu> btw it's not PC_DARK_BLUE
15:47:35 <Samu> _colour_gradient[COLOUR_DARK_BLUE][5] = 202
15:56:54 <Samu> perhaps _colour_gradient[c->colour][4]
15:57:12 <Samu> and leave water the same
15:59:45 <Samu> [4] matches the intensity of window title background company colour
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16:05:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTQd
16:08:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTQx
16:08:57 <planetmaker> Samu, I totally believe that the different blue is distinguishable
16:09:15 <Samu> that screenshot is with patch applied :)
16:09:47 <peter1138> Samu, always good to provide a before screenshot too :-)
16:10:02 <planetmaker> meh... ^^ or at least a description of what a screenshot shows
16:10:38 <peter1138> Sometimes a couple of pictures explains a thousand words.
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16:13:12 <peter1138> Well damn, I can't make out company blue and water! :p
16:13:16 <peter1138> (I knew that anyway)
16:13:27 <peter1138> Actually I can't see shit now, got the sun in my eyes :(
16:14:11 <andythenorth> there are specific kinds of inability to distinguish some blues and greens
16:15:28 <andythenorth> can't find the link for it
16:18:01 <Samu> added another screenshot
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16:20:24 <andythenorth> supermop_work: bonus points for adding philosophy to Friday
16:20:53 <supermop_work> grue is a pretty interesting concept
16:21:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7437: Fix #7434: Incorrect use of vector iterator. https://git.io/fjT7Z
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16:21:43 <planetmaker> I don't think we want to change company colours
16:22:27 <planetmaker> well, maybe on the legend, yes... or we could change water colour in the legend
16:22:34 <planetmaker> which would be nicer for NewGRF authors
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16:26:17 <planetmaker> green. Algae-muddled
16:27:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7427: Codechange: Use already-known distance between town and airport instead of recalculating it. https://git.io/fjT7i
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16:36:03 <peter1138> The RGB UI is a bit mad now :/
16:36:13 <peter1138> It went from ugly to overcooked.
16:36:48 <peter1138> My RGB company-colours patch.
16:37:22 <peter1138> I switch from 4 ugly RGB+C sliders to a hue/saturation/lightness slider, with visuals
16:37:41 <peter1138> It's an improvement, but doesn't really fit in to TTD-style.
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16:37:54 <peter1138> And also I still haven't added to the SSE blitters...
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16:40:31 <peter1138> They didn't exist when I originally wrote it :)
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16:43:46 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I will vote on all of them, okay? :D
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16:47:51 <andythenorth> what should an Engine Plant produce?
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16:50:48 <SpComb> engine units to ship to the electric engine assembly plant
16:51:24 <SpComb> because electric engines are fundamentally just further processed versions of combustion engines
16:54:16 <nielsm> it's effectively only a display value
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16:54:53 <nielsm> well I suppose some newgrf industries could actually rely on the value in the logic
16:55:04 <nielsm> but that would be bad form
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16:57:32 <TrueBrain> tnx nielsm, I will backport it this weekend :)
16:58:11 <TrueBrain> I wish I could add a "request vote" to a PR :)
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16:59:30 <peter1138> TrueBrain, it kinda goes away with my multi-tile-docks / newgrf dock plans.
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17:01:09 <TrueBrain> do we dare to say it is better to prefer that over this PR?
17:01:14 <TrueBrain> code-quality-wise this PR is a big no-no
17:01:28 <TrueBrain> so either I ask for that to be fixed up, or we deprecated it in favor of your work?
17:01:32 <TrueBrain> (dare to make that guess :D)
17:02:48 <andythenorth> maybe Engine Plant makes Engines
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17:05:45 <nielsm> I can reveal that building a dock in dos ttd with third tile half-raised or a buoy is not allowed either
17:06:01 <nielsm> (and aqueducts/canals/rivers did not exist in the original game)
17:06:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjT5X
17:06:58 <TrueBrain> I think it is the wrong solution for the wrong problem
17:07:08 <TrueBrain> sounds to me that it is about: can a ship enter the third tile from here
17:09:36 <andythenorth> I was pretty -1 to that
17:09:46 <andythenorth> I don't like these boil-the-ocean solutions
17:09:56 <andythenorth> but I don't want to hurt feelings
17:10:26 <TrueBrain> I think if the solution is what I describe, it is a fine addition. Given my assumption is right that that is the intended behaviour :)
17:11:42 <nielsm> peter1138: I think it'd be better that docks explicitly specify allowed docking tiles
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17:12:14 <peter1138> nielsm, they will but default docks are awkward.
17:12:16 <TrueBrain> so many draft PRs :P
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17:16:50 <peter1138> I need these things to remind myself I did them, sometimes :p
17:17:04 <andythenorth> special stalebot rule for people we like?
17:17:14 <peter1138> My docks PR became more complex, it was nearly ready, now less so :p
17:17:23 <TrueBrain> I marked NRT as pinned
17:17:40 <peter1138> NRT is getting some loving tonight.
17:17:55 <peter1138> Scenario editor has some issues :p
17:19:29 <peter1138> But you already mentioned things in the description that need to be done, so I kinda assumed you'd be doing them? :p
17:19:35 <TrueBrain> that is an awesome addition in my book nielsm
17:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there are specific kinds of inability to distinguish some blues and greens <-- but that's why we have false-colour modes?
17:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: what goes into the usage rating? time spent waiting for full load? time spent travelling at not-full-speed? time spent travelling not-fully-loaded?
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17:28:52 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: potential capacity = distance traveled * capacity during travel + <percentage of max speed> * capacity * time spent waiting for turn to load
17:29:17 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: actual usage = distance delivered (manhattan) * cargo units delivered
17:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i quite follow
17:40:19 <nielsm> vehicle speed only matters for the "time spent idle" calculation, which currently only activates when the vehicle is waiting for full load without getting any cargo
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17:41:00 <nielsm> actually probably also time spent waiting for timetable departure
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17:41:47 <Samu> I thought 6926 was so simple :(
17:42:42 <Samu> gonna try a different way
17:42:49 * nielsm boots up the linux laptop
17:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so it'll penalize long load times, and long detours, but not waiting at red signals or general slowness?
17:44:31 <nielsm> not as it currently is no
17:44:49 <nielsm> but I want to include signal waiting times too
17:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> signal waiting times would be included if you calulated time at not-max-speed
17:45:56 <peter1138> That assumes your trains can run at max-speed otherwise, no?
17:46:39 <planetmaker> also consider that tracks are potentially speed-limited by tracks and curvature
17:46:50 <planetmaker> (and signals ofc)
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17:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe for bottleneck diagnosis you also want to view the individual factors reducing the efficiency
17:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> like, sort the vehicle list for vehicles spending excessive time at loading
17:53:36 <_dp_> should I comment there or open a new one?
17:53:50 <_dp_> afaict it wasn't rly fixed in r23031
17:55:16 <peter1138> Open a new one and reference the old.
17:57:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened issue #7439: Server reports CRR_AUTOCLEAN instead of CRR_MANUAL to admin port https://git.io/fjTdK
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18:06:57 <_dp_> can think of several bad ways to fix it and not a single good one
18:08:28 <_dp_> hmm, moving reason to p1 would be ok I guess
18:10:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhQvL
18:10:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
18:10:28 <_dp_> that whole CMD_CLIENT_ID thing looks kinda questionable tho
18:12:22 <_dp_> why is there only a special validation for client id out of all things?
18:12:37 <_dp_> also != 0 isn't quite a proper validation either
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18:17:30 <SimYouLater> Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales for a second time? A least this time I'm in a better frame of mind than I was in 2017.
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18:21:02 <Samu> i thought I had saved the file, apparently not
18:22:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
18:23:55 <Samu> so ships can't dock from mid-way into a bridge
18:24:05 <Samu> it would be funny if it could
18:24:30 <Samu> must be under the bridge
18:27:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjTFZ
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18:34:25 <SimYouLater> I'll repeat... Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales for a second time? A least this time I'm in a better frame of mind than I was in 2017.
18:35:13 <Samu> what's wrong with the PR :( I simplified it
18:35:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fjTFl
18:35:47 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fhhNw
18:36:15 <Samu> there was two ways to check for those tiles, but you were complaining about if/elses, so now I went the alternative way
18:36:37 <Samu> end result is still the same
18:37:27 <TrueBrain> Samu: I am not talking about the content; check your patch itself. Look at it. You forgot things. Other things are obviously incorrect
18:37:34 <TrueBrain> so I haven't even looked at what it does
18:37:43 <TrueBrain> pay more attention to your PRs
18:37:48 <TrueBrain> it is not just: write something and what-ever
18:39:34 <Samu> do you want me to fixup?
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18:39:49 <TrueBrain> I want you to write more decent PRs
18:39:50 <Samu> rebase, then fixup the last commit
18:40:08 <TrueBrain> stop wasting our time with half-baked solutions and PR quality
18:40:13 <TrueBrain> I want you to learn from the things we are teaching you
18:40:21 <TrueBrain> we keep saying the same things over and over
18:40:26 <TrueBrain> learn from them; that is what I want from you
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18:41:34 <SimYouLater> I asked a question. If you're not going to answer it, then tell me.
18:41:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fjTFE
18:42:35 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7434: Assertion failure "Expression: cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator" https://git.io/fjTo7
18:42:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7437: Fix #7434: Incorrect use of vector iterator. https://git.io/fjTP4
18:43:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7427: Codechange: Use already-known distance between town and airport instead of recalculating it. https://git.io/fjTeL
18:45:13 <TrueBrain> peter1138: "This may vary airport rotation" missed a word there?
18:45:38 <peter1138> Ooh, conflicts anyway :D
18:45:59 <SimYouLater> Please? I just want to know that I'm not incorrect to assume there are three standards for railtype widths and that a guide might be useful, because last time I tried to catalogue them, someone told me I was dense and should shut up.
18:46:09 <peter1138> TrueBrain, no, just badly worded.
18:46:12 <TrueBrain> meh; wish I could say something useful about those patches peter1138 :D No clue :)
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18:46:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fhhNw
18:47:04 <peter1138> SimYouLater, please be patient, people have other things to do as well.
18:47:14 <andythenorth> SimYouLater: that is such a double negative
18:47:39 <glx> when working on #7435 I noticed some issues with airport action 0
18:47:40 <peter1138> And... railtype widths? That sounds like a design decision. So not anything us developers really get involved with.
18:47:43 <SimYouLater> Oh, "not incorrect".
18:47:45 <andythenorth> you want somebody to tell you that nobody is telling you?
18:47:52 <andythenorth> not really how it works :P
18:48:09 <SimYouLater> It is a design decision. It's not a standard you're required to follow, just an observation.
18:48:30 <SimYouLater> But last time, Leanden got angry at me.
18:48:36 <glx> prop 09 is not handled later
18:48:56 <SimYouLater> I don't want to even try unless I'm sure I don't sound like an idiot.
18:49:16 <glx> even the spec says "you first need to define it by setting property 8 or 9 for it." but doesn't tell any detail about prop 09
18:50:52 <nielsm> SimYouLater: IMO nobody should be calling anyone "idiot" or similar for trying to ask questions
18:51:08 <psilynt_> SimYouLater I'd say if you have to ask before doing it, you already shouldn't do it
18:51:33 <psilynt_> More of a personality thing than anything else
18:51:42 <peter1138> SimYouLater, also remember tt-forums isn't exactly OUR thing. obviously we post there, but we don't police it.
18:52:50 <SimYouLater> The only reason I'm asking is so that people don't try to bite my head off. Technically, I'm allowed to post it, but people got really ****y last time and a moderator had to tell them to be constructive.
18:52:53 <Samu> "by checking if a ship can enter the third tile from the direction the dock is in" - it doesn't need to do this. Docks have no foundations, just asking if there are water tracks in the 3rd tile is going to give the same results as it is described
18:53:29 <SimYouLater> Whatever, I'll post it and be clear what I'm trying to do this time.
18:53:42 <psilynt_> SimYouLater, If you're that worried about what people think, then don't do it. I'm sure someone out there will eventually write a 16-page post about how they extracted a tapeworm through their nose and made their buggers into minecarts and people will be way more annoyed.
18:54:54 <psilynt_> Sort of depends on how much that tapeworm looked like a train.
18:54:54 <peter1138> SimYouLater: stop being so sensitive :p
18:54:58 <Samu> you can't build a dock if the rail is on the other side, on the water
18:55:13 <Samu> so the check it's doing now is sufficient
18:55:53 <Samu> I tested this on those other closed PR's
18:56:05 <Samu> if it worked there, there would be no reason not to work here too
18:56:20 <TrueBrain> in the huge risk of repeating myself (wait, I am repeating myself): 1) write these things in the PR. 2) I am not talking about the content of the patch. I am talking about the patch itself. It needs more attention.
18:57:09 <nielsm> as long as there is a chance peter1138's docking tiles patch (perhaps even newdocks) are going in, I think adding new special cases to dock placements is a pointless endavour since it's going to be obsoleted anyway and replaced with a better/more generic approach
18:57:37 <TrueBrain> nielsm: did you check the latest version? It removes special cases even ;)
18:57:54 <TrueBrain> I am still +/- 0 btw :)
18:58:03 <andythenorth> is it home time?
18:58:12 <TrueBrain> I am just annoyed the quality of the PR is once again the debate ;)
18:58:14 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is
18:58:22 <nielsm> I'm worn out from looking at water patches
18:58:25 <andythenorth> I should go home soon then
18:58:35 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I fully understand :)
18:58:37 * andythenorth wonders about a dice roll
18:58:41 <peter1138> I should go... oh, I did.
18:58:41 <andythenorth> 'this patch was unlucky'
18:58:47 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: lol :)
18:58:58 <TrueBrain> peter1138: home office? :P
18:59:01 <peter1138> So should I eat this Cadbury's Creme^W Oreo Egg?
18:59:15 <peter1138> Nah, I rode home between 17:05 and 17:35 :D
18:59:22 <TrueBrain> I was so happy this week that in the UK the weather was as good as over here :)
18:59:30 <peter1138> Also, should I get fat this weekend?
18:59:36 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: where did you go this time?
18:59:49 <TrueBrain> sadly, I mostly go to the same place ..
18:59:57 <TrueBrain> not in 2 months; then I am visiting a new place!
19:00:12 <TrueBrain> happens with corp offices around the world, I guess :P
19:00:27 <TrueBrain> some shitty city I never heard of
19:01:02 <TrueBrain> like I know these things
19:01:05 <TrueBrain> I always just end up there
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19:01:47 <peter1138> Let me know when, that's 30 minutes away from me.
19:01:59 <andythenorth> much roundabouts
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19:02:01 <TrueBrain> somewhere early May
19:02:08 <andythenorth> shame it's not Swindon :P
19:02:24 <TrueBrain> its funny; 30 minutes over here is like every place in the country you would want to visit :P
19:02:54 <supermop_work> here 30 minutes gets me back into manhattan from brooklyn
19:02:56 <TrueBrain> no offices near Swindon, sorry andythenorth :)
19:03:17 * andythenorth isn't in Swindon :P
19:03:24 <andythenorth> it would just be amusing
19:03:55 <peter1138> Hmm, about 1h30-2h by bike, depending
19:04:12 <TrueBrain> I keep asking if I can visit our offices in places like the US or Australia
19:04:15 <TrueBrain> they keep refusing :(
19:04:25 <andythenorth> you can visit my office in Australia :P
19:04:37 <TrueBrain> only if you pay the trip :P
19:05:14 <nielsm> it's not whether it's works
19:05:22 <nielsm> it's whether the code quality is good
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19:05:29 <nielsm> code quality is more than "does it work"
19:05:34 <nielsm> it's about maintainability
19:06:03 <TrueBrain> and not so much about the lines of actual code .. but all the non-code involved too
19:06:18 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: btw, I think I know a nice clean way to fix doc stuff
19:06:35 <TrueBrain> just have to check if something already exists, or that I requires writing something very simplictic
19:07:28 <peter1138> glx, hmm, is an airport without any layouts ever valid?
19:07:39 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: winner :)
19:07:50 <andythenorth> I am about to cycle home, you can make a pastebin of your plan while I cycle :)
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19:08:43 <Samu> but that's not a thing yet :(
19:09:02 <Samu> I'm not supposed to check for the tiles on the sides
19:09:06 <peter1138> glx, in #7429 i have a check for table >= num_table. I'm wondering if it should just be an assert, cos it should already be checked. But...
19:09:09 <TrueBrain> I have seen how people have to cycle in the UK ... I cannot imagine anyone survives the experience ..
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19:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> one would wonder how people in the UK ever survive anything...
19:10:34 <peter1138> I have a few close-passes this afternoon.
19:10:38 <peter1138> Maybe I should review the video.
19:10:38 <TrueBrain> because you don't do anything because votes keep failing? :D
19:11:24 <peter1138> Hmm, where's my microSD adapter :s
19:12:03 <Samu> i'm gonna change the comment in the code, just in case it's that
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19:14:54 <glx> it seems original layout table is duplicated in prop 08, so looks like an airport always have a layout
19:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <SimYouLater> Is anyone going to bite my head off if I try to explain track scales <-- i would rather not discuss scales. too many subjective opinions waiting to happen, no objective outcome expected.
19:16:36 <TrueBrain> to scale or not to scale, that is the question!
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19:21:15 <TrueBrain> that moment speed is shown to you in KB/s ... :( DOWNLOAD FASTER FFS
19:21:26 <Samu> /* Checks whether the third tile, the location where ships dock, has water tracks. */
19:21:26 <Samu> if (GetTileShipTrackStatus(tile_cur) == TRACK_BIT_NONE) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE);
19:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> uh, i spent like 10 years with that
19:21:47 <Samu> do I ommit the 4 cases ?
19:22:35 <TrueBrain> finally, up to 20 MB/s ... can go .. quicker ...
19:23:44 <Samu> /* Ensure the location where ships dock has water tracks. */
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19:24:15 <peter1138> Right in front of me :/
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19:24:24 <TrueBrain> it is weekend peter1138 :)
19:24:45 <peter1138> Well it was behind my keyboard, and I didn't expect to be there, but still.
19:24:50 <peter1138> My desk is messy :(
19:25:11 <TrueBrain> and I am hungry, but I shouldnt eat, as I am going to sport in a bit ..
19:26:12 <peter1138> And... I don't think the camera was on :p
19:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> can't possibly be as messy as mine
19:26:28 <peter1138> In fact, nothing recorded for a week. wtf.
19:28:51 <TrueBrain> camera out of fuel? :P
19:30:22 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations https://git.io/fhnCx
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19:30:52 <Samu> removed the link to the forum
19:32:06 <Samu> I thought I had it removed previously
19:32:20 <Samu> now I understand why u so mad at me
19:32:53 <TrueBrain> not mad; disappointed :P
19:35:06 <Samu> that was a patch from 6 months ago :|
19:36:15 <Samu> 7424 conflicts? there was no conflits an hour ago :(
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19:40:34 <andythenorth> so TrueBrain...?
19:44:23 <TrueBrain> I don't work for you! :P
19:45:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport layout would fit within map before iterating tiles. https://git.io/fjTtQ
19:45:58 <peter1138> Now with less conflicts, and that dodgy wording has been amended.
19:52:34 <andythenorth> do I have to dig up logs of you asking me to do stuff? :P
19:52:50 <TrueBrain> yes; please waste your time on that :D
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19:56:35 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I will write it out a bit more tomorrow, but very simplistic, I was thinking:
19:56:47 <TrueBrain> a place where you can sftp a tarball with docs and a file with meta data
19:56:59 <TrueBrain> contains at least: name and a category (stable, master, ..)
19:57:22 <TrueBrain> that place contains a small script, picks it up, puts it on the CDN, creates index files, lists everything needed, and keep retention based on category
19:57:33 <TrueBrain> and this is reachable by <name>.docs.openttd.org or something
19:57:39 <andythenorth> we can give it a cool name
19:57:47 <andythenorth> ArtefactsAren'tArtefacts
19:57:58 <TrueBrain> solves many usecases, like NoAI docs, but possibly it can also work for non-docs, like OpenTTD releases
19:58:14 <TrueBrain> as from what I remember, we just want a place that holds files for X time for us
19:58:20 <TrueBrain> and that needs to be indexed
19:58:22 <andythenorth> basically, coop bundles, but updated
19:58:44 <TrueBrain> if we do OpenTTD releases too, we need to be able to style index.htmls that do the listing
19:59:03 <TrueBrain> means we no longer have to rebuild the website every new release
19:59:10 <Alberth> in true 80s style with scrolling text
19:59:15 <TrueBrain> mostly I wonder if something like that doesn't already exists
19:59:26 <TrueBrain> as it is just an artifact store .. just with some special rules
19:59:34 <TrueBrain> but if not, it is really trivial to make
19:59:37 <andythenorth> weirdly, it's probably too simple to be a product
19:59:45 <TrueBrain> good thing is, you upload to an sftp .. we control that with private/public key or something
19:59:51 <TrueBrain> which uploads to CDN
19:59:57 <TrueBrain> means you don't have to care how that last part is done
20:00:08 <TrueBrain> anyway, off to do some sports
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20:00:13 <TrueBrain> tomorrow we should check if this works for your requirements :)
20:00:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTbc
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20:00:46 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7436: Change: Dark Blue company and water were indistinguishable in small map. Make water darker. https://git.io/fjTiR
20:01:04 <TrueBrain> I feel a revert coming up :P
20:01:10 <TrueBrain> owh, yeah, I have to run :P
20:01:22 <peter1138> dbg: [grf] NewGRF 'ECS. Agricultural vector 1.2 (12 Jan 2012) R685' provides incorrect information
20:02:11 <andythenorth> you were going to do NRT in SE
20:02:14 <andythenorth> then merge it all
20:02:37 <andythenorth> then vehicle variants
20:02:42 <andythenorth> then we're fixing industry closure
20:02:45 <andythenorth> then we have a break
20:04:34 * peter1138 pointlessly rebases nrt again.
20:05:29 <andythenorth> after we've had a break we can decide what to rek next
20:05:37 <andythenorth> station cargo display
20:07:14 <Wolf01> I already see the stable release message: "you'll find NRT on tomorrow's nightly"
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20:11:00 <peter1138> Hmm, unavailable railtypes are hashed out
20:13:55 <peter1138> So I'll make roadtypes consistent.
20:16:03 <andythenorth> hmm Unsinkable Sam
20:16:07 <andythenorth> anyone tried it?
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20:21:54 <andythenorth> boats that don't suck
20:22:24 <andythenorth> there's an Alpha on Bananaramas
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20:24:30 <peter1138> Even so, what's the problem?
20:24:36 <Samu> it's how my AI uses it that is repeated
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20:25:03 <peter1138> Yes, but I'm not addressing your comment in a PR that's about something else.
20:25:19 <peter1138> You need to report it separately as an issue.
20:25:33 <peter1138> What you are talking about needs an API change, which was clearly OUT OF SCOPE of that PR.
20:26:12 <peter1138> Testing 100+ tiles for distance wasn't that expensive, but it was needless.
20:26:35 <peter1138> It's not related, the PR was clearly defined.
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20:27:12 <Samu> gonna try create that function
20:27:29 <peter1138> It's an API call, yes.
20:28:07 <peter1138> You'll need to start using AI compat 1.10 though :p
20:29:19 <peter1138> Samu, can't you just try building the airport?
20:29:28 <peter1138> That'll let you know if the town will allow it or not.
20:29:47 <Samu> yes, but only if I have the money
20:30:04 <peter1138> If you don't have the money, why does it matter?
20:30:25 <Samu> my AI doesn't really plan in such manner though
20:30:29 <peter1138> Besides, you can do a query instead of actually build.
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20:31:49 <peter1138> Samu, maybe add a new function "GetNoiseLevelIncreaseForTown()"
20:32:06 <peter1138> Then you can call AIAiport.GetNearestTown() once, and pass that in.
20:34:41 <andythenorth> so what should the theme of FIRS Steeltown be?
20:35:06 <peter1138> andythenorth, steel?
20:35:36 <peter1138> Hmm, which road types should be available in the scenario editor.
20:36:20 <peter1138> Does date matter? I think so.
20:36:35 <peter1138> And should TRAM be available at all?
20:36:45 <supermop_work_> any road that a town can build, SE can build
20:37:05 <peter1138> Ah, good point, I have the town build flag :-)
20:37:08 <supermop_work_> publically owned tramways?
20:37:30 <peter1138> Which is interestingly already set for some newgrfs, as if that was going to be something.
20:37:37 <supermop_work_> i set it in mine
20:37:41 <Wolf01> <Samu> non tram <- why not?
20:37:53 <andythenorth> where is Eddi|zuHause when I need him to point out my errors? :(
20:38:01 <peter1138> supermop_work_, when though? I only added the town-build flag a couple of months ago.
20:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd suggest making a setting: "allow player-built infrastructure in scenario editor" that includes trams, rails, ...
20:38:18 <Samu> town's can't build trams
20:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> like, neutral airports!
20:38:56 <supermop_work_> peter1138: i recall someone putting something like that in back in the last round of nrt activity 1-2 years ago
20:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure we discussed a "town build flag" for years
20:39:09 <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: yes
20:39:26 <peter1138> supermop_work_, yeah, that concerns me because there is nothing in the NRT code about town/road availability.
20:39:38 <peter1138> It makes me think the NRT that was given to me is out of date
20:39:46 <peter1138> OR it was unimplemented.
20:39:56 <peter1138> But I dunno where documentation would be.
20:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: just because it's not implemented doesn't mean it's not in the specs :p
20:40:04 <peter1138> There are no specs.
20:40:06 <andythenorth> Wolf01 might remember
20:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe someone DID have a vision for once :p
20:40:30 <supermop_work_> peter1138: in this channel most likely, and yes Wolf01 was doing most of the work
20:40:56 <supermop_work_> idk if it was even implemented or just discussed
20:41:12 <peter1138> There's nothing in the code.
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20:44:33 <andythenorth> afaik, they weren't production ready, so they weren't in the big PR
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20:46:13 <andythenorth> they were considered scope creep at the time
20:46:35 <peter1138> I had to implement something for towns, there was far too many TODOs
20:47:06 <peter1138> Jesus christ, all these merges :/
20:47:32 <Samu> GetNoiseLevelIncreaseForTown(what goes here?) ?
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20:48:53 <Samu> isn't a bool saying yes or no a better approach?
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20:50:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory https://git.io/fjTNT
20:51:26 <peter1138> Anyone for #7431? :p
20:57:13 <andythenorth> I can't review it :P
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21:07:51 <Samu> i need 7429 merged for peace of mind :)
21:11:58 <peter1138> Yeah, awaiting review. I updated it.
21:12:18 <peter1138> Hmm, why is the catenary so high?
21:13:24 <andythenorth> dunno, it's a mine railway
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21:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm not making progress with rebase... i need better automated bisection
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21:23:15 <andythenorth> if I remove an existing cargo from FIRS, will people whine?
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21:35:43 <psilynt_> It would be nice if someone would make a realistic grain elevator.
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21:36:15 <psilynt_> Sorry, looking at the pictures of the train next to the (coal?) pile
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21:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ISR has nothing for you?
21:37:09 <psilynt_> I dunno. Lemme look.
21:37:47 <psilynt_> OMG yes. It has normal looking elevators.
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21:42:36 <psilynt_> The concrete one looks good. It's missing the huge pile of unsold and rotting soybean though.
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21:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> just relabel it, nobody will notice
21:54:33 <peter1138> Mmm, ruby chocolate
21:54:56 <peter1138> And somehow I'm only at 2000 carolies after dinner, cake and chocolate
21:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> how could you survive on that?!?
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21:56:24 <peter1138> Err, what, the recommended daily amount?
21:56:29 <peter1138> Or just dinner, cake & chocolate?
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22:02:08 <TrueBrain> pfft, sport make me sleepy
22:02:10 <peter1138> Nah, I had Gu the other night.
22:02:20 <peter1138> That's about 5 million carolies per pot.
22:02:47 <nielsm> no proper meal for me today, don't feel like it... just some crispbread with cheese (aged havarti)
22:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i meant the "recommended daily amount"
22:03:02 <peter1138> I had risotto with chicken and butternut squash.
22:03:25 <peter1138> Ah, well, I sit at a desk all day...
22:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> brain activity eats plenty of corollas
22:03:50 <peter1138> (And had about 90 minutes of cycling today, but that's not much)
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22:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what were those numbers, a human body at rest uses 200W, and at heavy workout 300W?
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22:07:39 <peter1138> Fitbit says my cycling today is about 1100 carolies but I don't believe that.
22:08:41 <peter1138> (Cos I maintain weight when eating less than that)
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22:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, something isn't right there, 200W would mean 4000 calories per day
22:10:06 *** supermop_work___ has quit IRC
22:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so, more like 100W
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22:20:17 <TrueBrain> MERGE MERGE MERGE MERGE
22:22:03 <peter1138> Cos I've rebased :p
22:23:15 <peter1138> Can merge once this is done.
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22:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> can i go a step backwards in a bisect, if i've accidentally said the wrong bad/good?
22:23:41 <peter1138> Nope, that messes up the PR :p
22:23:58 <andythenorth> shall I start a YT channel of me playing OpenTTD? :P
22:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to earn big youtube money?
22:24:17 <andythenorth> maybe I could join Yogscast
22:24:24 <andythenorth> they're just next door
22:25:42 <frosch123> as long as you do not start a yt channel playing tanks :)
22:28:26 <andythenorth> so what should vehicle factory accept? :P
22:28:31 * andythenorth having brain ache about it
22:29:53 <andythenorth> and vehicle bodies
22:29:54 <nielsm> motors, plate metal, something more
22:29:57 <frosch123> plastic, batteries, electronics, tires
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22:39:40 <Samu> I found an inconsistency
22:40:10 <Samu> _settings_game.economy.station_noise_level
22:40:48 <Samu> if it's off, it checks closest town via ClosestTownFromTile
22:41:19 <Samu> if it's on, it checks clostest town via AirportGetNearestTown
22:41:33 <Samu> this is when building airport
22:42:21 <nielsm> is that for choosing which town to associate the station with for station sign and ratings purposes?
22:42:45 <nielsm> (i.e. for the case where you aren't joining to an already existing station)
22:42:52 <nielsm> if that setting is off there is no airport noise
22:43:06 <peter1138> There's no airport noise but it still calculates it.
22:43:12 <Samu> CmdBuildAirport, station_cmd.cpp
22:43:16 <peter1138> But apparently it's inconsistent.
22:45:13 <Samu> maybe it's fine.. must investigate better
22:45:56 <andythenorth> what's steel used for?
22:47:53 <Samu> I need to mimic the behaviour that is used by CmdBuildAirport for the script function I am trying to create
22:48:26 <peter1138> Ah, trains carrying cutlery :-)
22:49:15 <Samu> uhm, nop, it's inconsistent
22:49:18 <Samu> ScriptAirport::GetNearestTown
22:49:27 <Samu> always calls AirportGetNearestTown
22:49:41 <nielsm> 12/8 length flatcars with huge sporks
22:50:07 <frosch123> itn't there a huge demand for train cars?
22:50:23 <andythenorth> also a constant problem in FIRS is that tertiary cargos just don't quite work
22:50:25 <nielsm> yeah that might make sense :P
22:51:01 <andythenorth> what are the problems with tertiary cargos...?
22:51:11 <andythenorth> cdist can't distribute them very well
22:51:28 <nielsm> make the company HQ accept steel rails, concrete (and/or wooden) sleepers, and railroad car parts
22:51:34 <andythenorth> FIRS has to provide industries to accept them in town, but many towns will lack the industry
22:51:52 <andythenorth> tertiary cargos seem kind of pointless, they have no town effect
22:52:06 <andythenorth> maybe we can fix this!
22:53:18 <nielsm> if town buildings had another field for building class it might be possible to have cargos define that they would usually be accepted by certain building classes
22:53:48 <nielsm> so town sets could define supermarkets, hardware stores, furniture stores, ets
22:54:13 <andythenorth> peter1138: thing of beauty
22:54:25 <nielsm> you seem to be scheming something lol
22:54:25 <andythenorth> nielsm: it's an idea
22:54:43 <peter1138> andythenorth, it's a lot easier to pick colour with that hue bar.
22:54:52 <andythenorth> what if newgrf could control town growth?
22:55:27 <andythenorth> I thought that was removed?
22:55:29 <nielsm> a cargo can define how it affects town growth
22:55:37 <nielsm> I'm pretty sure that's the only thing
22:55:42 <peter1138> Pretty sure TaI affects town growth.
22:56:38 <nielsm> when are we getting vector station sign facility icons?
22:58:34 <_dp_> andythenorth, god no, it's probably the reason gs is not entirely useless
22:58:41 <nielsm> imo something like town growth should be controlled by GS, with newgrf at most providing hints the GS can access
22:58:48 <_dp_> andythenorth, controlling towns is pretty much the only thing it can do :p
22:59:23 <andythenorth> I don't use GS for that
22:59:37 <_dp_> andythenorth, and everything else it can't. coz newgrfs %)
22:59:55 <andythenorth> I should try to write a GS
22:59:59 <nielsm> a goal with no reward is pointless
23:00:00 <andythenorth> I pretty much failed last time though
23:00:13 <nielsm> the reward for a goal should be possible to be like "town grows faster"
23:00:27 <andythenorth> does a goal need a reward?
23:00:29 <_dp_> andythenorth, grfs are for sprites! not behaviour :p
23:00:54 <andythenorth> quick, delete all the industry newgrf spec
23:01:26 <andythenorth> I just can't make sense of 'to fix FIRS, I must now write a GS'
23:01:32 <andythenorth> how can I even force people to use it?
23:01:47 <andythenorth> can it be enforced as a dependency?
23:02:22 <nielsm> thematically, a GS should be able to implement a wide variety of goal-based scenarios where the story of the scenario progresses based on player actions, and the world changes/progresses to match the story
23:02:46 <andythenorth> it can do that already
23:02:51 <andythenorth> just nobody wants to write those GS
23:03:18 <nielsm> how should an industry control for GS look?
23:03:32 <andythenorth> it's not the domain of GS
23:03:39 <nielsm> a GS that e.g. needs a way to have an industry change production level (or not change production level)
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23:04:04 <andythenorth> monkey patch the monthly and random prod. cb
23:04:18 <nielsm> "the improved living standards in barfingville leads to the coal mine prospering"
23:05:20 <andythenorth> I might just do that in newgrf
23:05:33 <andythenorth> I think that with 256 registers, I can now do it
23:06:38 <andythenorth> depends what I can measure in the town
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23:07:29 <andythenorth> I am not -1 to GS, I use it in every game
23:07:52 <nielsm> well, can you measure that the player has successfully built a train station and four bus stops and is now transporting 300 passengers a month?
23:08:04 <andythenorth> I can measure population
23:08:07 <andythenorth> over several months
23:08:28 <andythenorth> and I won't have to piss around with saveload code in GS
23:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> industry can query the related town with PARENT?
23:08:53 <andythenorth> 256 registers is quite a lot
23:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, those exist, i've just seen that code
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23:11:18 <andythenorth> hmm this is a long way from 'uses for steel cargo' :)
23:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe that part could use a 40+ var for "fraction of GS goal achieved" or something like that
23:12:46 <peter1138> vector station sign facility? eh?
23:12:54 <peter1138> Oh you want a custom TTF?
23:13:32 <nielsm> peter1138 something like that yes
23:13:52 <nielsm> should totally add a way to put truetype outlines in GRF files tho
23:13:54 <peter1138> I'm not sure we have the ability to use a different font depending on glyph.
23:14:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's an interesting idea :)
23:15:04 <andythenorth> there was town permanent storage proposed
23:15:06 <nielsm> svg is a pretty bad idea
23:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> ttf has probably a bit more data than svg?
23:15:51 <frosch123> juanjo had a svg patch
23:15:52 <andythenorth> the current fashion in web design is to declare font glyphs bad and svg good
23:16:04 <andythenorth> that rotates every few years, because fashion
23:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think we move at that level :p
23:16:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buttercup5 opened issue #7440: Crash when trying to delete town in scenario editor https://git.io/fjTxv
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23:16:55 <Samu> first half in openttd code
23:16:58 <andythenorth> it's really fun doing the primary -> secondary parts of an industry chain
23:19:15 <Samu> perhaps i should apply my 7424 to speed up
23:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> he falls asleep fast?
23:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i say "i should sleep", it's a guarantee that i'm still here in 4 hours
23:20:55 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7440: Crash when trying to delete town in scenario editor https://git.io/fjTxI
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23:25:57 <psilynt_> Dumb newb question - is there a way to lower the amount of money received for everything by a set percentage?
23:27:00 <_dp_> psilynt_, no, but you can increase prices with basecost newgrf
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23:32:28 <Samu> ops wrong starting year, restarted in 2003
23:34:28 <peter1138> What's this, your new low-CPU API call?
23:39:02 <Samu> considering initially I was getting about 2700 ms avg
23:39:10 <Samu> much has improved already
23:42:18 <Samu> for all industries + valuators + for all towns
23:48:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #5730: Autoreplace - remove wagon is global not local https://git.io/fjTxz
23:48:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6562: Stations: extended byte for NewStation ID https://git.io/fjTxg
23:48:36 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #7041: Cargo flow legend not fully redrawn when station sign is moved https://git.io/fjTx2
23:54:34 <Samu> + the one that's already in master + the other from yesterday
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23:55:18 <peter1138> I don't think anything in master needs to be reviewed and merged :p
23:56:13 <Samu> started iterating metropolitan
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23:58:02 <Samu> linkgraph is cargodist related?
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continue to next day ⏵
