IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-12-04
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00:00:25 <dwfreed> according to the about page, win9x era is supposed to still be supported, so I don't think C++11 is going to work there
00:00:30 <orudge> The list on the wiki has the usual suspects as supported (https://wiki.openttd.org/Operating_system), none of which I think should be problematic. (I'm not sure Solaris should count as supported, unless anybody is actually supporting it)
00:00:50 <orudge> dwfreed: OpenTTD should still build with mingw32 on Win9x
00:01:33 <orudge> or at least, the binary generated by mingw32 should run on Win9x. I don't know for sure if a suitable version of mingw itself will work.
00:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so i enabled compositing just for fun, and immediately see why i disabled it the last time... with compositing enabled, there's this weird delay between making firefox/youtube fullscreen and the video being shown
00:01:43 <dwfreed> there's probably a lot of C++11 things that aren't going to work in Win9x
00:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> dwfreed: how are those things related?
00:02:41 <dwfreed> mingw32 probably dropped support for Win9x, and subsequently builds aren't going to run there
00:03:14 <dwfreed> so you have to decide if you want C++11 more or Win9x support more
00:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> are you just speculating now?
00:04:22 <dwfreed> making educated guesses based on what I know about the featureset of C++11, the state of compiler development, and the internels of Windows pre-Windows 2000
00:08:32 <orudge> It looks like whether it will work will depend on the exact C++11 feature in use, and whether the C++ runtime DLLs are statically linked into OpenTTD or not (the dynamic versions would appear not to work)
00:09:45 <orudge> Either way, the number of Win9x users is probably fairly minimal, and I'm sure if somebody is very determined to get the newest versions of OpenTTD to work on Win9x, they will find a way. I can imagine the benefits for developers of C++11 would outweigh the few Win98 users.
00:12:57 <dwfreed> honestly, dropping all but win 7+ support would make a lot of sense; call it 2.0 :)
00:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> concerning solaris, maybe we should add a category for "someone once managed to run it on ..."? :p
00:14:27 <orudge> Vista is I think the cut-off for modern versions of Visual C++
00:15:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think last time we cut off at WinXP SP2, and moved over some older versions of XP to "use the 9x version instead"
00:15:30 <orudge> The amusing thing is that we could, in theory, still provide an MS-DOS version using DJGPP and Allegro (although whether Allegro 4.0 still works with modern DJGPP I don't know)
00:15:40 <orudge> I once got networking to work (to some degree) on DOS too, using WATTCP
00:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think someone messed around with dos builds about a year ago? might have been two
00:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> something (probably age) is messing with my perception of timeframes
00:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> things that i imagine as "last year" turn out to be "8 years ago"
00:17:43 <orudge> In other news, I've submitted an official version of OpenTTD to the Windows Store, as we have a relatively constant stream of people saying "hey, did you know somebody is selling OpenTTD in the Windows Store". It's not a UWP app, it's just the OpenTTD 1.8.0 binary distribution wrapped up.
00:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds fine to me
00:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> did we pay something for that?
00:18:18 <orudge> Unfortunately it can't actually be called "OpenTTD" because that other person has that name, and unless they wish to voluntarily relinquish it, we will be "OpenTTD (official)"
00:18:46 <orudge> Eddi|zuHause: I think there was a $20 signup fee or something like that, but I don't believe there are any other fees.
00:19:14 <dwfreed> orudge: I worked for a school district in 2009 that had a boot CD of IPX drivers for MS-DOS so they could get a Novell NetWare client up and running for Norton Ghost
00:19:19 <ST2> @orudge: I've already reported that version (as a W10 user) - despite that I compile my OpenTTD's :)
00:19:48 <dwfreed> (their regular system login was netware too; they stored their ghost images on netware shares)
00:20:04 <orudge> ST2: yes, I think a few people have. The problem is that it doesn't actually violate the GPL, it's just annoying that they don't at least rename the app to indicate that it is not official.
00:20:19 <orudge> I did report it to Microsoft 'officially' but they say they couldn't/wouldn't do anything
00:20:43 <dwfreed> orudge: sounds like you need to make an OpenTTD Foundation and trademark the OpenTTD name
00:21:00 <ST2> anyway, not to mess on the middle of current chat, but keeping compatible way backwards won't stop (or stall) future devellopments?
00:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> technically, trademarks don't need to be registered, but you may have a more difficult time in court
00:21:17 <ST2> (just a thought, no knowledge to judge)
00:21:44 <dwfreed> Eddi|zuHause: trademarks do need to be registered (in the US; it's copyright that doesn't)
00:21:53 <orudge> Plus given Transport Tycoon is still being sold on iOS, etc, I'm not sure what the legal implications, etc, might be, if any. Either way, I don't have time to run a foundation, but if anybody else wants to, feel free :)
00:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> dwfreed: i'm fairly sure we can go with european law
00:22:55 <orudge> ST2: I think there are things that could be easier using C++11 (and indeed C++14 and C++17), and there are various custom-written classes in OpenTTD that could be replaced with off-the-shelf constructs. It wouldn't necessarily inhibit things, but it wouldn't necessarily help either...
00:48:58 <LordAro> C++11 has been required (in at least 2 places) for about 6 months now
00:49:11 <LordAro> you could say 6917 is just bringing the build system into line
00:50:07 <LordAro> and yes, C++11 (and beyond, but mostly 11) allows a lot of things that were previously reasonably hackily implemented by OTTD
00:50:13 <LordAro> less code means less bugs
01:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> don't tell that to andy, he will read "less code is better" and translates that to "must remove <feature>"
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16:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> bäh. every time i look into plasma theme customizing, i get annoyed and turn back leaving everything as is... why did they remove all these settings from the systemsettings?
16:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> everything is buried in some config files, and i can't even figure out which of these it's actually using
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18:56:56 <Wolf01> Oh no... another destiny update... luckily 1.2GB
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19:51:22 <andythenorth> I can haz Horse problem
19:51:47 <Wolf01> You have a pony problem
19:52:31 <andythenorth> I drew supplies cars, with tractors and crap
19:52:41 <andythenorth> but mostly I use mail cars for supplies, because faster
19:53:31 <andythenorth> not sure what to make of that :P
19:53:38 <Wolf01> Like "why develop something I won't use?"
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19:58:52 <andythenorth> so now I'm adding express box cars
19:58:58 <andythenorth> because I got bored of seeing mail cars everywhere
19:59:04 <andythenorth> so the real problem
19:59:16 <andythenorth> what colour should the express cars be? :P
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20:08:42 <andythenorth> different colours for different cargos?
20:10:30 * andythenorth has just had AN IDEA
20:21:21 <andythenorth> when are we doing multi-flip? o_O
20:22:18 <nielsm> car directions: forward, backward, upward, downward?
20:28:45 <andythenorth> n-dimensional flip :o
20:29:09 <andythenorth> spin, temporal displacement, flux mode
20:29:36 * andythenorth was hoping just to increment a counter
20:30:00 <andythenorth> but if we're open to bigger ideas....
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21:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not going to be a counter
21:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> Oh no... another destiny update... luckily 1.2GB <-- i've got a game earlier which had an update of 928 byte
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21:28:43 <Wolf01> Eddi, usually on steam some games update with 0 bytes "scheduled for tonight 3:00"
21:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i get that with all games that use wine, on every steam restart
21:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and with workshop updates, the size doesn't seem to be conted
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