IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-11-30
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12:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds fun, but i probably wouldn't take part in one of those
12:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but shouldn't they do that sort of stuff on the forums?
12:54:17 <Xaroth> I think a news post on the site could also give exposure
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13:47:01 <planetmaker> I told them that they definitely should post on the forums. Maybe show up here. And maybe reddit as well
13:47:20 <planetmaker> but yeah... what besides that. I'm pondering a news post... it would be an unusual thing to do :)
13:48:38 <Xaroth> Unusual doesn't have to be a bad thing
13:48:45 <Xaroth> promoting your community promotes your product.
13:49:00 <planetmaker> yep. That goes both ways in this case, but yes
13:50:56 <planetmaker> Honestly I wouldn't mind a posting on our news page at all.
13:53:26 <planetmaker> Maybe we should more regularily post such things on our main page. Also special events by other regular OpenTTD communities like the reddits etc
13:53:51 <Xaroth> as I said, promoting your community promotes your product :)
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20:12:17 <andythenorth> too much train, very delete
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20:30:09 <ZehMatt> is @peter1138 still around?
20:33:58 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 9 hours, 17 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <peter1138> Yeah
20:37:22 <frosch123> iirc he broke his dev environment
20:37:30 <frosch123> and on windows it apparently takes days to get one
20:39:30 <ZehMatt> so been wondering where things are at
20:39:43 * andythenorth wonders where TrueBrain is
20:41:44 <ZehMatt> still seeking for the smooth window moving on 144hz :)
20:42:09 <ZehMatt> if you ever played on 144hz screens u'll know what im talking about
20:44:44 <dwfreed> something something freesync or gsync something something
20:47:14 <ZehMatt> if you draw at 30hz it wont help :P
20:53:40 <ZehMatt> quite a lot of open PRs
21:05:13 <andythenorth> I think we're going to have a bot that closes them
21:05:22 <andythenorth> after a month or so
21:06:00 <ZehMatt> so a PR open longer than a month can be considered rejected?
21:06:08 <ZehMatt> not sure i follow on that
21:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> <ZehMatt> if you ever played on 144hz screens u'll know what im talking about <-- dunno about that, i play loads of games that don't even reach 30fps
21:06:54 <andythenorth> ZehMatt: something like that yes
21:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a month is a bit short?
21:07:12 <ZehMatt> but whats the actual reason
21:07:19 <ZehMatt> not interested into the fixes/changes?
21:07:26 <andythenorth> stuff naturally dies
21:07:36 <andythenorth> if the PR is unmoved after a few months, it's not happening
21:07:45 <andythenorth> it's just noise, not signal
21:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ZehMatt: i think it's more about PRs in the state of "waiting for author"
21:07:57 <andythenorth> [wavey hands] "some rules"
21:08:07 <andythenorth> I found a project doing it nicely yesterday
21:08:14 <andythenorth> I wanted to steal their words
21:08:17 <andythenorth> but can't find it
21:08:50 <ZehMatt> <Eddi|zuHause> What kind of games are those
21:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ZehMatt: dunno, i'm not involved in that, just repeating what i think i read here
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21:10:39 <ZehMatt> it just feels off if you move some UI and its slow
21:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, that you mean
21:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i play on linux and graphics driver is not nearly up to windows standards
21:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> on a lower-end graphics card
21:11:19 <ZehMatt> then you probably dont run on 144hz anyway
21:11:30 <andythenorth> is it slightly choppy on drag?
21:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no, just saying i live in a different world than you
21:11:42 * andythenorth has thinks it's slightly choppy on macOS
21:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you're probably thinking of a different kind of choppyness
21:12:35 <andythenorth> very slight latency in draw when moving windows?
21:12:44 <ZehMatt> well its my own fault for being so used to 144hz now
21:12:54 <ZehMatt> even simple 60hz displays are very weird to look at now
21:13:37 <andythenorth> wow is refresh rate still a thing? :o
21:13:55 <frosch123> no, it's "again" :)
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21:14:26 <ZehMatt> i wish more screens would go 120+
21:14:26 <andythenorth> been years since I thought about refresh rate
21:14:51 <ZehMatt> and i wish more games would stop limiting the refresh rate to 60
21:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> how did they ever come up with 23.976?
21:15:04 <dwfreed> ZehMatt: I've never really had great hardware; am totally used to playing games at 15-20 fps
21:15:13 <glx> for me more than 60 is useless as most games can't reach that with my hardware
21:15:47 <ZehMatt> its not just with games
21:15:56 <ZehMatt> even simple mouse movement is clearly different
21:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm pretty sure i watched that before
21:19:55 <ZehMatt> still hoping for the best
21:20:57 <ZehMatt> orct2 also uses tweening to make up for the time it doesnt update and its looking just awesome if you uncap the fps
21:22:20 <andythenorth> oof vehicle length troubles :(
21:22:35 <andythenorth> anyone doing templated consist replacement? o_O
21:23:03 <ZehMatt> just so i said it, great work on OpenTTD to everyone
21:23:47 <nielsm> maybe I will try to pick up on that game/ui tick separation patch at some point, if peter1138 isn't ready to pick dev back up
21:25:03 <ZehMatt> i wouldnt mind to continue either, i mean i started this mess
21:33:14 <nielsm> if you are able and willing, by all means do, picking up someone else's incomplete patch and finishing it is absolutely in the spirit of GPL license
21:33:48 <nielsm> (if anyone disagrees with someone else picking up their incomplete but published work, they shouldn't be working on a GPL licensed project)
21:39:41 <andythenorth> the train I want to draw is only 50ft long
21:39:59 <andythenorth> which makes it 6/8 in the very-much-invented Horse scale
21:40:09 <andythenorth> but it replaces an 8/8 engine
21:40:14 <andythenorth> which is kinda annoying
21:43:34 <andythenorth> moin planetmaker
21:46:16 <ZehMatt> well if i were to continue
21:46:27 <ZehMatt> do i just rip out all of his commits into my own branch?
21:50:37 <ZehMatt> would still like to hear word from him since he did most of the work already
21:53:41 <nielsm> add his gh fork as a remote, fetch, checkout his branch, and then push it to your own gh fork
21:54:09 <nielsm> (you'll probably want to rebase it onto current master, which will make his and yours 100% divergent regardless)
21:54:20 <ZehMatt> i know my way around git
21:54:41 <ZehMatt> i just dont want him to be surprised and maybe even pissed for someone else just picking up where he left off
21:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's been a long time since we had that kind of issue :p
21:58:40 <ZehMatt> we'll if nothing changes i probably give it a go the next days
21:59:00 <ZehMatt> then i can refactor the other planned things
21:59:09 <andythenorth> he might make comments :D
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22:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we should all take a moment and remember the great bridge controversy of 2006
22:02:46 <frosch123> you are the only one old enough
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22:06:36 <andythenorth> before my time Eddi|zuHause
22:06:49 <andythenorth> I arrived shortly after some airport drama with richk
22:07:04 <andythenorth> and shortly before peter fell out with r*bidium about something
22:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a slightly different kind of drama
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22:10:45 <andythenorth> the quality of drama is currently very low
22:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i forgot what actually triggered the richk drama
22:13:10 <planetmaker> bridge controversy... I don't recall
22:13:11 <frosch123> some guy designing newgrf specs without knowing any preexisting newgrf spec
22:13:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i remember when i implemented the newairports spec in grf2html and wondered.. what is this. this is against everything else
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22:14:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: probably vs bridges can cross bridges or so :p
22:14:38 <andythenorth> isn't all that solved in JGR now?
22:15:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: it has always been possible in master, it was just deliberately disabled because it looked ugly and glitched
22:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no, bridges can cross bridges is just a one-liner on top of the current bridge implementation, that was not controversial
22:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the bridge-over-everything patch was merged somewhere mid-2006, and the two main developers of that patch had a disagreement about whether it was merge-ready yet, so after a huge argument it was un-merged again
22:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and then merged again in late 2006 or early 2007
22:17:22 <frosch123> ah, right, i recall that
22:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the main actors were Tron and Celestar, but not sure
22:17:58 <frosch123> i don't know either of them
22:18:27 <frosch123> tron was never here when i was here
22:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think he was around much
22:18:56 <frosch123> and celestar was a bjarni, only here for talking, not for coding (probably he won't like the comparison) :p
22:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> celestar did the elrails implementation, i think
22:19:51 <andythenorth> is bridge-over-everything the precursor of NRT? o_O
22:20:30 <andythenorth> is that the one that ends in ECONOMY.PDF?
22:24:22 * Eddi|zuHause must take a step back and not mention SirXavius
22:27:00 <frosch123> some people everyone remembers from just a few posts :)
22:27:34 <andythenorth> I volunteer Eddi|zuHause to be our project manager
22:27:40 <planetmaker> interestingly, my tt-f account is from 2006... so I might have seen some of the bridge controversy. but I don't recall
22:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: must be a BIG project manager
22:28:32 <frosch123> less people means smaller-scale drama :)
22:28:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've levelled up, I'm a program manager
22:28:53 <andythenorth> gosh that's ugly frosch123
22:29:04 <andythenorth> it's like the worst Brio train ever
22:30:55 <andythenorth> train is 1400HP and is direct replacement for Tencendur above it
22:31:03 <andythenorth> it's for pax / fast things
22:31:20 <andythenorth> the alternative choice for fast in this gen is 2200HP dragon
22:31:57 <frosch123> diesel engines should be smaller compared to the steam engines they replace?
22:32:07 <frosch123> or is that historical bs?
22:32:16 <andythenorth> no it's what Horse mostly does
22:32:30 <andythenorth> but it 'forces' consist micro-management
22:32:37 <andythenorth> unless you don't bother, because shorter is easy
22:32:58 <frosch123> the two stripes add a unique-touch, but i think you will cry when doing \ and / sprites
22:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think we have established that you are the only person bothered by that
22:33:17 <andythenorth> yes but I am also the only person making the grf :P
22:33:35 <andythenorth> so it's a 1:1 mapping of "people who care":"people with responsibility to fix it"
22:34:07 <andythenorth> but it's basically ugly
22:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you forgot a :1 "people who will get to use the finished GRF"
22:34:42 <andythenorth> I don't know how to calculate that one
22:34:52 <andythenorth> where is the infinity symbol on my keyboard?
22:35:06 <andythenorth> it's zeno's paradox no?
22:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> those damn xenos all the time
22:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> kill them with fire!
22:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (sorry, played too much stellaris lately)
22:36:14 <andythenorth> I always think it's xeno not zeno
22:36:43 <andythenorth> I think we all know the 6/8 was always going to be the winner :P
22:36:56 <andythenorth> what is that frosch123? o_O
22:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because english is a language that forgot to differentiate between "ts" and "ks" sounds
22:37:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's supposed to promote "multiple bus/truck stops in same station"
22:37:41 <frosch123> but the gui never made it
22:37:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (also "ps" and "pt")
22:37:55 <andythenorth> it's confusing :)
22:38:25 <frosch123> yes, because it uses buttons as labels
22:38:57 <frosch123> those seven buttons are just headers for the spreadsheet on the right
22:39:26 <frosch123> though, maybe they open a vehicle list
22:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have assumed they trigger some filter
22:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but are they actually the precursor to the icons that we now have on the station gui?
22:42:55 <frosch123> but yes, that screenshot does not have them, so plausible
22:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "OpenTTD now runs on more platforms/operating systems than ever, these include: AmigaOS, BeOS, all BSD flavors, Linux, Morphos, QNX, Solaris/SunOS, Windows and probably most other systems where SDL has been ported to " <-- how much of that is still true?
22:45:36 <Gustavo6046> I want to divide the tile map into uniform chunks, so that I can accelerate pathfinding algorithms by reducing their search space.
22:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> good luck with that
22:46:21 <frosch123> i'll put him into the goalserver bucket then :)
22:46:28 <nielsm> Gustavo6046: yeah good luck, it probably won't work
22:46:35 <andythenorth> I've so never wanted that stats stuff :)
22:46:48 <nielsm> (but don't take it from me, I never passed algorithms course)
22:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think we once had a patch that exported a game into graphviz
22:47:34 <andythenorth> anyway, so how about instead of auto-replace being "old train" : "new train" mapping
22:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: to see which stations connect to which
22:47:56 <andythenorth> we do "n old train" : "n new new train"
22:48:10 <andythenorth> but we give it a multiplier
22:48:27 <andythenorth> then it's like a small maths puzzle
22:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> just i never found a graphviz mode that could generate subway-map-style graphs
22:48:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think you'd have to write your own graphviz layout mode :P
22:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the point is, i never understood how nobody had done that before
22:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not going down that rabbit hole tonight :p
22:50:16 <andythenorth> apparently svg is now a plausible internet technology
22:50:23 <andythenorth> I used it in a production website this week
22:50:33 <andythenorth> standard was agreed in 1999
22:50:50 <andythenorth> that's how long it took for my traffic to not be composed of IE < 11
22:50:52 <planetmaker> svg works already for ages, kinda
22:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the industrial automation software i used at my last job used svg internally
22:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so if it's in industry 4.0, it must be ancient technology :p
22:51:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: we only just dropped IE 8, which Microsoft dropped in 2016, and for which https is just broken
22:51:54 <planetmaker> really, still IE at all?
22:52:09 <andythenorth> IE is quite a dominant
22:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: wouldn't be surprised if still a significant user base was windows XP
22:52:44 <planetmaker> I just read the other day that it was like ~8% using IE still.
22:52:52 <planetmaker> mostly industry, though
22:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your target audience, i guess
22:53:20 <planetmaker> for its security record most likely :P
22:53:20 <ZehMatt> just discovered recently another xp machine
22:53:33 <ZehMatt> i could see VLC play in the elevator
22:53:33 <planetmaker> XP... look for ATMs and you likely find it
22:53:37 <ZehMatt> they forgot to fullscreen it
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22:55:46 <andythenorth> IE use is up to 99% on our 2018 stats
22:55:52 <frosch123> did edge surpass ie meanwhile?
22:56:15 <andythenorth> Edge remains a turkey
22:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> completely unrelated, but recently there was this image going around of a train station (i think brussels?) where they mounted a screen to display an "analog" clock, but they messed up the mounting direction or the screen rotation, so it displayed the completely wrong time
22:56:46 <andythenorth> highest Edge use is 35%
22:56:50 <andythenorth> but mostly it's 0
22:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: is that % of unique hits, or views in general?
22:58:02 <andythenorth> spreadsheet doesn't say, but one tracks the other
22:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> question would be whether the more "heavy" users would have a different distribution
23:00:40 <andythenorth> these are quite skewed stats, because they're for customer admin access, so they reflect organisation browser policy
23:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause> also unrelated: a few days ago i was helping someone make some privacy settings on their browser(s) and i noticed that edge doesn't seem to have a setting for "throw away all cookies on close"
23:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking to myself whether that might be because some weird internal preloading thing makes edge never actually close anyway
23:03:00 <andythenorth> is it bad that most Horse train names begin with S?
23:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but i didn't want to descend into conspiracy theory levels, so i didn't check up on that
23:03:37 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.183333333333
23:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as opposed to M or F like normal language words?
23:04:02 <andythenorth> wonder what the distribution of S is normally :P
23:04:23 <ZehMatt> how far can this thing go
23:04:24 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 3.84615384615
23:04:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 5.12820512821
23:05:02 <andythenorth> S is only over-represented by a multiple of 5
23:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's certainly never an equal distribution
23:05:29 <andythenorth> Q is quite hard, scrabble has taught me
23:05:37 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: 3.14159265359
23:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and first-letter distribution is also different from regular language distribution
23:05:46 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
23:05:50 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: 0.841470984808
23:06:18 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.84270079295
23:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> uh, wasn't expecting that :p
23:06:31 <andythenorth> I just prefer the name 'Shredder' to 'Tip-top' :P
23:06:35 <andythenorth> dashed names are silly
23:06:48 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: 'g' is not a defined function.
23:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc erf(99999999999999)
23:07:29 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: 'g' is not a defined function.
23:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's definitely the right function
23:07:46 <ZehMatt> can i define new things?
23:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably can't put more than one statement into a line
23:09:11 <ZehMatt> python, who would have guessed
23:11:00 <dwfreed> limnoria is its replacement
23:11:14 <DorpsGek> dwfreed: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1.
23:12:24 <frosch123> that is only one release behind the latest :p
23:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> where is it drawing this "latest release" figure from?
23:14:23 <dwfreed> probably a web service
23:14:48 <DorpsGek> dwfreed: The "version" command is available in the Misc plugin.
23:16:48 <frosch123> when will sf become 404?
23:20:53 <dwfreed> microsoft should buy sf and sunset it
23:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine all the code injection exploit when the registration for sf runs out, and somebody else hijacks all the autommated page views
23:26:25 <andythenorth> that wasn't done already?
23:31:12 <dwfreed> 'sf.net' was originally registered in 1994
23:31:51 <dwfreed> sourceforge.net has a registration date of 1999
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