IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-11-28
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16:27:53 <planetmaker> oh, an fjb. Moin!
16:28:17 <fjb> Haven't been here for a long time.
16:29:17 <fjb> And I should start to play again. Wonder how the game developed.
16:29:55 <planetmaker> dunno... how long have you been gone?
16:31:00 <fjb> About 4 years, not quite sure.
16:31:14 <planetmaker> 1.4 vs... 1.8 or nearly 1.9
16:31:45 <planetmaker> though currently our nightlies don't work yet after the move to GitHub
16:32:11 <planetmaker> It's still the same game
16:32:53 <fjb> Transitions aren't easy. But I guess there will be enough new things in the release versions to begin with.
16:34:21 <planetmaker> translations... are easy in principle. It would need someone to reply more regularily to all those volunteers
16:36:18 <fjb> There is never enough time.
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17:43:51 <fjb> Client: HexChat 2.14.2 • OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (x64) • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz (3,40GHz) • Memory: 23,9 GiB Total (13,7 GiB Free) • Storage: 1,3 TiB / 1,4 TiB (168,5 GiB Free) • VGA: Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 Ti • Uptime: 1d 1h 26m 10s
17:55:22 <LordAro> good amount of memory you've got there
17:56:46 <fjb> Yes, had it laying around.
18:00:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
18:01:12 <fjb> And it helps with picture and video editing.
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19:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> translations... are easy in principle. It would need someone to reply more regularily to all those volunteers <- you mean, like, a translations manager? that actually shows up when the next finnish guy asks for a translations manager? :p
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22:06:48 <andythenorth> when loops nested 3 levels deep become one loop on a pre-composed data structure :P
22:06:50 <andythenorth> things are better
22:08:41 <planetmaker> depends on the complexity trade-off :)
22:14:34 <andythenorth> it's more indirection
22:14:37 <andythenorth> but much easier to read
22:15:42 * andythenorth is surprised something worked first time
22:16:19 <planetmaker> <andythenorth> but much easier to read <-- then it's a definitive improvement
22:22:03 <andythenorth> redmine is not the easiest place to read diffs eh :)
22:22:20 <planetmaker> yeah... works, though
22:22:35 <planetmaker> gotta find time to migrate the stuff to github :P
22:22:49 <planetmaker> and only keep the newgrf build machine
22:23:49 <andythenorth> so Horse was building wagons with random 1CC or 2CC (recolour sprites)
22:24:02 <andythenorth> now they're still random, but depot flip toggles them
22:24:38 <andythenorth> I really want a second hotkey for depot, that can actually cycle a counter
22:24:44 <planetmaker> it's expensive holographic colour. Looks different from different angles
22:24:53 <andythenorth> depot-click is a really intuitive way to set liveries
22:25:01 <andythenorth> all the proposals for complex livery menus leave me cold
22:25:10 <andythenorth> and need string handling and stuff
22:25:16 <andythenorth> which means more newgrf extension
22:25:38 <andythenorth> giving newgrf author up to 16 bits which can be cycled by clicking is a lot of potential
22:26:00 <andythenorth> either 16 different variants, or bitmask to combine states :P
22:27:26 <planetmaker> I don't quite follow at what level you want/need them? Just for a vehicle (chain) so that it can define certain properties by referencing a look-up table?
22:27:54 <andythenorth> it's one of those things where the use case is hard to pin down
22:28:07 <andythenorth> and any given use case, someone will say "that's the wrong way to do that specific case"
22:29:01 <andythenorth> currently I am abusing 'flipped' as 1 bit of information for vehicle, which lets player configure it
22:29:55 <planetmaker> ok, so indeed some vehicle specific look-up table to distinguish sub-types:)
22:30:10 <planetmaker> wasn't 'views' what basically should solve this?
22:30:24 <andythenorth> if it was a counter incremented by clicking, that would do a lot
22:30:43 <andythenorth> author sets max value 0-16, it rolls over to 0 at max
22:31:23 <planetmaker> hm, that works for... say, 16 values. For more it becomes an un-usuable UI. But... that could be changed to scroll-bar or drop-down or similar
22:31:42 <andythenorth> and then it needs string handling, and scroll, and all kinds of stuff
22:32:05 <andythenorth> build a train of open cars, and try ctrl-clicking
22:32:12 <andythenorth> same for a train of pax cars
22:32:19 <andythenorth> oh set two company colours though
22:34:37 <planetmaker> any specific OpenTTD version needed?
22:35:47 <ST2> well, +1 for not falling on the use of 'Latest' :D
22:36:27 <planetmaker> well, let's take it as an opportunity to update my checkout :P
22:38:28 <planetmaker> wtf... "too little memory" for my 2GBit sprite cache?!
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22:43:17 <planetmaker> eh, I need iron horse also, yes? :D
22:44:22 <ST2> hint: add Road Hog - maybe make things easier ^^
22:45:54 <andythenorth> oof wrong link sorry
22:46:02 <andythenorth> I auto-completed on bundles :O
22:46:22 <andythenorth> bundles, still winning
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22:52:39 <planetmaker> ctrl+click will try to turn it - which fails?
22:54:21 <andythenorth> which vehicle? o_O
22:56:55 <planetmaker> uhm... open wagons?
22:57:23 * andythenorth wonders if jenkins is behind
22:57:27 <andythenorth> try a pax coach planetmaker ?
22:58:23 <andythenorth> unpushed commit :x
22:59:59 <andythenorth> oh yes, that's very old horse :)
23:00:14 <andythenorth> looks like a released version
23:00:31 <planetmaker> hm, I copied that to my newgrf dir...
23:00:36 <andythenorth> ^^ gives you dev for 2.x
23:01:13 <andythenorth> grfid is 4341121F
23:02:58 <planetmaker> ah... stupid me. It doesn't help to open the zip in the archive programme. I actually have to copy the tar into my newgrf dir :P
23:03:29 <planetmaker> now the newest horse is r27xx
23:05:26 <planetmaker> yay, nicely flipping from yellow to blue and back
23:06:50 <planetmaker> problem with the click-approach is (as with every approach): there will be people who cry "oh no, but I want several orthogonal things which I want to be able to select separately"
23:07:17 <planetmaker> (and insert arbitrary, like forward,backward, colour, capacity, ... whatever, you name it)
23:08:07 <planetmaker> yet, I tend to agree that one selection process for all these possible distinctions might totally suffice. It's just visuals... mostly. Or at least for everything visual
23:08:12 <andythenorth> so if you build a hopper car
23:08:16 <andythenorth> you can't select the CC
23:08:21 <andythenorth> only the grey / brown
23:08:25 <andythenorth> but my view is 'so what'
23:08:59 <andythenorth> if authors had an arbitrary counter like this, it will be abused
23:09:03 <andythenorth> and more will be asked for
23:09:05 <andythenorth> but again, so what :P
23:09:17 <andythenorth> look at the abuse of cargo subtypes :)
23:10:12 <andythenorth> mostly it appeals to me to try and template the case where I use both a counter var, and depot-flip :P
23:10:13 <planetmaker> anything which *can* be abused, will be abused
23:10:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if you build a long pax train, sprites change according to position, and can be flipped :P
23:10:59 <andythenorth> and the default livery changes per engine
23:11:09 <andythenorth> that was interesting to template
23:11:28 <andythenorth> mail cars have 4 liveries, depending on flip, engine, and whether consist has more pax or mail :P
23:11:41 <andythenorth> I know this is all BAD FEATURE :)
23:11:57 <planetmaker> seems I built an engine which doesn't accept pax :P
23:12:41 <planetmaker> actually... yes, does
23:12:56 <planetmaker> openttd then annoys me: it didn't prepend it to the wagons I already built
23:13:05 <andythenorth> yeah that catches me out often
23:13:35 <planetmaker> funnily it *did* work for the cargo ones. I think
23:14:31 <planetmaker> the wagons actually have a teeny bit different livery, depending on position, do they?
23:15:22 <andythenorth> it's not a huge change
23:15:39 <planetmaker> I want it all in 2x :P
23:17:57 <planetmaker> looks very nice, though :)
23:18:16 <andythenorth> and will be done...'soon' :P
23:18:46 <planetmaker> anyhow, much sooner now: bed time. Good night
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