IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-10-03
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15:28:42 <Samu> no offense to 7zip, but winrar has a better integration with windows explorer
15:32:33 <Samu> speaking of winrar, let me install sublime merge
15:34:04 <Samu> LordAro: Sublime Merge or Sublimerge? there's a slight difference
15:36:16 <Samu> just want to make sure I'm installing the right one
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16:37:05 <LordAro> (the other looks like a plugin for sublime text)
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16:53:53 <Samu> wow, this is a big mess for me
16:54:37 <Samu> it's showing me stuff that's already implemented :(
16:58:53 <Samu> the translations are always getting in the way
17:08:22 <Samu> --------------------------- Sublime Merge --------------------------- D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD svn-trunk doesn't look like a git repository --------------------------- OK ---------------------------
17:08:56 <Samu> uhm, i forgot why I wanted sublime merge
17:10:20 <Samu> where does it open svn patches?
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17:46:35 <LordAro> Samu: the idea was to enable you to rebase/amend without a commandline
17:46:45 <LordAro> and yes, an svn checkout is not a git repo
17:47:32 <Samu> yeah, maybe next time I have a rebase/amend problem
17:50:03 <Samu> your compilers don't like that I don't use parentheses
17:50:47 <Samu> visual studio here doesn't complain about it, I couldn't guess
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17:56:59 <nielsm> it's only warnings, but yes you should address those and add the parentheses to make the evaluation order explicit
17:58:07 <nielsm> the reason it's a warning is that most people can never remember whether || or && has the higher precedence so it's a risk of mistakes leaving out the parentheses
17:59:37 <nielsm> it's okay to add another commit on top to fix that
17:59:56 <nielsm> like, "Fix: compiler warnings"
18:00:06 <nielsm> we can squash it all when merging into master
18:01:13 <Samu> I also forgot about a variable not being used further down in that log
18:10:03 <Samu> if (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_STATION) || (v->current_order.IsType(OT_GOTO_DEPOT) && v->current_order.GetDepotActionType() != ODATFB_NEAREST_DEPOT)) {
18:23:23 <Samu> alright, let's see what the compiler dudes say now
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21:01:44 <andythenorth> eh, we have sprite layers now right?
21:01:58 <Wolf01> Are you ready to abuse it?
21:02:40 <andythenorth> trying to decide how to composite pantographs onto electric trains
21:02:51 <andythenorth> obviously I could just draw them into the sprite :P
21:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> then what did we implement composite sprites for?
21:06:45 <andythenorth> so I could (a) draw them (b) composite them into my sprites programmatically with PIL (c) use sprite layers
21:07:12 <andythenorth> if (b) I would use magic pixels to locate the pantographs
21:07:27 <andythenorth> I prefer (c) in this case, for reasons
21:09:10 <andythenorth> but I have to feed offsets to nml for the pantograph position, which is tedious to do manually
21:09:24 <andythenorth> so I wondered about generating those from the position of magic pixels :P
21:11:02 <andythenorth> how many layers do I get?
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21:37:07 <andythenorth> I'm already using one for rear lights
21:37:19 <andythenorth> how many pantographs do trains have?
21:43:09 <Heiki> depends on the train, 2 is probably most common for single-unit locomotives
21:46:46 <nielsm> yeah locos tend to have 2 pantographs, when it's the half-pantograph type they're usually mirrored, and apparently which one is used can depend on both direction of travel and type or load or perhaps consist max speed
21:47:05 <nielsm> and some locos might use both pantographs when pulling heavy loads
21:48:35 <Heiki> using more than 1 pantograph is common with lower voltages such as 1.5 or 3 kilovolts
21:48:51 <nielsm> for EMUs there aren't any clear rules but I don't think you have EMUs in horse?
21:49:53 <andythenorth> so do I commit the 2 spare layers to pantographs?
21:49:58 <andythenorth> what else might I want them for?
21:50:09 <nielsm> I remember driving one advanced loco in train simulator where the manual said you should raise both pantographs for goods trains, that was on german main line
21:50:44 <nielsm> nah I'd just use a single layer and have 4 variations of the pantograph sprite
21:50:52 <nielsm> (both down, first up, second up, both up)
21:51:04 <andythenorth> different engines have different spacing between the two
21:51:14 <andythenorth> so I need two layers
21:51:38 <nielsm> how many variations of that do you possibly have?
21:51:39 <andythenorth> there are alternatives where I generate spritesheets for the pantogrpahs
21:52:53 <andythenorth> three in the current version of Horse
21:53:55 <andythenorth> it's only barely worth automating this at all
21:54:02 <andythenorth> I could just paste them in the spritesheet
21:54:50 <andythenorth> but I have 13 engines, and only two actual types of pantograph
21:55:07 <andythenorth> "don't repeat yourself" applies in spades
21:56:13 <nielsm> the good thing about hobby projects is you can spend as much time as you like doing things "the right way"!
21:57:55 <andythenorth> I can use magic pixels in the engine spritesheet
21:58:12 <andythenorth> to locate the pantographs, which are then composited into a new spritesheet
21:58:29 <andythenorth> including various up/down positions
21:58:46 <andythenorth> which are then used by a single sprite layer in game, separate from the base engine sprite
21:59:12 <andythenorth> it sounds complex, but is actually the cleanest solution resp. NML templates and spritesheet layouts
21:59:27 <andythenorth> and is still better than manual placement
22:00:36 <andythenorth> oof, debugging sprite layer placement is tedious, have to actually run OpenTTD
22:01:03 <andythenorth> but I can also pre-generate what the composited result would be, and inspect that in the spritesheet, just for debugging
22:01:09 <andythenorth> graphics processing is the most fun
22:04:13 <andythenorth> ok, samu can have the channel back now :P
22:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: typical rules for pantographs: 1) engines tend to have 2 pantographs, sometimes more for multi-power engines. 2) as long as both pantographs apply to the same power system, the second one (in travel direction) is raised. 2a) if two engines are in a train, and each one needs a pantograph raised, the two most distant from each other are raised (again, permitting compatible power systems)
22:06:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so I should also do consist-dependent pantograph combinations? o_O
22:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the distance between the two raised pantographs directly applies a speed limit, to suppress induced mechanical fluctuations in the wire
22:06:24 <andythenorth> I think we can skip the speed limit
22:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: probably TMWFTLB
22:06:36 <andythenorth> worryingly, I already have a lot of consist dependent code :P
22:06:44 <andythenorth> and I can generate all combinations of up/down
22:06:56 <andythenorth> if you gave me the ruleset, I probably would implement
22:07:05 <andythenorth> even though it's silly overkill
22:07:44 <andythenorth> what if there are 3 engines?
22:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> in most (european) cases, the 3rd engine is at the end of the train, though
22:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and this basically only applies to freight trains, which need support going uphill, so speed isn't the main concern there
22:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that link is broken
22:10:11 <andythenorth> that link is awful, sorry
22:10:15 <andythenorth> they really shouldn't
22:10:24 <andythenorth> ridiculous token length
22:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> in that last picture you see that the last engine has the last pantograph raised, the others the first
22:11:50 <andythenorth> and if the player flips the engine, should the pantograph flip, or stay in technically correct position?
22:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> actual driving direction is important
22:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, keep in mind that shunting may actually make it into the game, which will basically destroy all your consist code
22:16:15 <andythenorth> I will deal with that if it occurs
22:16:34 <andythenorth> it will have some 'interesting' side effects
22:17:34 <andythenorth> I could always respond sensibly
22:17:53 <andythenorth> maybe delete all my tt-forum posts, then start a simutrans account, then delete all those
22:18:09 <andythenorth> or I could maybe decide to try and get bananas taken down with a DMCA notice
22:18:52 <andythenorth> it's kind of hard to think how to top previous rage quits :P
22:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean simuscape?
22:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i barely remember more than 3 ragequits
22:21:00 <andythenorth> I did mean simuscape, oops
22:21:28 <andythenorth> ok so 4 spriterows
22:21:38 <andythenorth> all up, all down, A up B down, A down, B up
22:22:00 <andythenorth> if the engine breaks down, should I lower the pantographs? :P
22:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> mind you, the "only second pantograph" rule applies to modern engines, historical engines of the early generations had both pantographs raised at all times
22:23:46 <andythenorth> I am going to accomodate that
22:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there contact-redundancy had a bigger importance than speed
22:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> until they invented better pantographs and spring systems and stuff
22:32:48 <nielsm> also, I am not sure why, but the single electric passenger loco running in denmark atm, in push-pull operation with control car on the other end, when it's turning around at the end of line, the pantographs are both down while the drives moves to the other cab
22:33:14 <nielsm> probably not anything to work in :P
22:33:45 <nielsm> well, maybe... if it's possible to set a trigger on "waiting for load and still not fully loaded"
22:33:56 <nielsm> (or "waiting on timetable)
22:46:54 <nielsm> thinking about it, it's probably just because they'll be switching pantograph anyway, so may as well make the procedure to always lower it when leaving a cab, and raise the correct one when entering the other cab
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23:32:47 <LordAro> codewise most of Samu's stuff looks fine, but i don't know enough about most of the code to know if it's the correct solution, or what is desired
23:51:28 <sushibear> You know what? OTTD is a roguelikelike. Like dwarf fortress :)
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