IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-09-30
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00:23:51 <Samu> cpu evaluator crash, the bane of many AIs
00:25:16 <Samu> oh, Delerium are out with a new out
00:40:51 <Samu> yeah september 2016... that was 2 years ago already, how did I miss it
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00:45:46 <Samu> it's sad depressing music, nobody likes it, except me
00:46:16 <Samu> used to be worse in the early years
01:06:55 <peter1138> "Delerium is a Canadian ambient electronic musical duo"
01:07:19 <peter1138> Listens to first track on Mythologie... yeah... no, that's not particularly ambient.
01:08:05 <Samu> - Fix: [Script] Kill scripts, when a non-suspendable valuator call takes way too long [FS#6473] (r27594)
01:08:56 <Samu> will never forget though
01:14:14 <peter1138> Well, don't let your valuators take too long.
01:15:24 <Samu> make valuators suspendable would be a better fix :(
01:41:51 <peter1138> I suspect you know more about the subject than me :p
01:47:31 <Samu> ewww, no. that part of the code is too scary to touch
01:48:10 <Samu> it's kind of a bridge-code between squirrel and openttd
01:49:24 <Samu> the coding style is different
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02:21:47 <Samu> so the idea I had was to put the valuator on hold, and suspend the script
02:22:41 <Samu> I better give up before I start
02:42:57 <Samu> WmDOT could really use some buses
02:43:14 <Samu> it already builds "highways"
02:43:25 <Samu> towns are connected, so why not
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09:06:26 * Pikka back in a couple of hours
09:07:28 <andythenorth> oof it was pikka
09:07:38 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 4 days, 12 hours, 45 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <DanMacK> LOL
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12:01:33 <andythenorth> 49 trains to draw
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12:08:30 <andythenorth> some are just copy-paste-adjust
12:08:36 <andythenorth> but I left some of the hardest to end :(
12:13:23 <andythenorth> I can do 5 trains in a weekend
12:13:29 <andythenorth> done by Christmas? o_O
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12:57:33 <andythenorth> Pikka: some ages ago, you were drawing trains
12:57:39 <andythenorth> big ones and stuff
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13:18:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause did a PR!
13:19:03 <andythenorth> so can we merge it? o_O
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13:21:11 <nielsm> I've been spending most of my time playing two point hospital instead of doing anything else... current masterpiece https://0x0.st/sYAk.jpg
13:21:36 <andythenorth> I don't see the tanks in that
13:21:43 * andythenorth only plays tank games now :P
13:22:02 * andythenorth wishes WOT Blitz could be combined with Euro Truck Simulator
13:22:40 <nielsm> and train games only count because they have tank engines in them?
13:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so is two point hospital anything like Biing!? :p
13:24:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: NARS reboot then?
13:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: Euro Blitz Simulator?
13:24:56 <andythenorth> some kind of convoy ambush game
13:25:10 <Pikka> possibly? :) plenty to finish with UKRS first, and I'd like to do industries and houses
13:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking you're just tasked with driving around the tank, parking correctly, and stuff... no actual battles :p
13:25:34 <Pikka> it's all on a rather distant back burner at the moment though
13:26:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so tank loading simulator?
13:26:25 <andythenorth> 2 teams, 7 minutes, winner is first one to load all tanks?
13:39:29 <LordAro> blathijs: no progress that i'm aware of
13:39:49 <LordAro> well, it's not used on windows any more
13:39:57 <LordAro> but that's probably not helpful to you
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13:52:39 <blathijs> LordAro: What's the alternative on Windows? Is there some Windows API for layouting?
13:53:50 <nielsm> it's already been implemented
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14:31:50 <andythenorth> I have to draw 2 narrow guage diesel engines
14:32:33 <andythenorth> pls send me the pixels :P
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14:40:41 <andythenorth> mostly I need some RL inspiration :P
14:55:43 <FLHerne> (1967, but the bodywork is from 1997)
14:56:09 <andythenorth> I started drawing it, I'll find the spritesheet
14:56:45 <FLHerne> "selected for trials on the FR on the grounds that the gas axe doesn't work so well on fibreglass, and the cabs fouled the FR loading gauge." :P
14:57:30 <andythenorth> 7 column of sprites, 2nd row :P
14:59:23 <FLHerne> Proportions look a bit off?
14:59:31 <FLHerne> The cabs aren't higher than the main bodywork
15:00:08 <FLHerne> So it looks very stretched
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15:10:30 <andythenorth> need a colour scheme for NG diesels :P
15:11:06 <andythenorth> funny bulky bonnets
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16:27:18 <stefino> Hi..do anyone know if this project is still alive?
16:32:48 <frosch123> check the "history" tab :)
16:33:30 <stefino> if you mean something like this "This page was last modified on 18 March 2011, at 08:18." :D
16:33:36 <stefino> this is not so possitive
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16:46:15 <peter1138> But probably more useful than "nobody's heard of it"
16:53:48 <Samu> gonna do a "fresh install solo AI competition", what do u think?
16:54:05 <Samu> fresh openttd 1.8.0 install + AI downloaded from bananas
16:55:31 <Samu> maybe the only exceptions is gameseed, it will be the same for every AI and that the AI starts from day 1
16:57:26 <Samu> or do you have other ideas?
16:58:51 <Samu> btw, is it possible to start decidated openttd in singleplayer?
17:00:30 <Samu> nobody's interested in my shenanigans
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17:31:26 <operand> tbh i wanna play this game again but i dont know how people manage to build really nice stuff like i always see on reddit and the forums and stuff :p
17:31:29 <operand> all my networks are boring af
17:33:18 <andythenorth> operand: screenshot, or it didn't happen :)
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18:37:45 <Samu> i feel like creating patch requests of my stuff, but I dunno if that's how it works
18:37:57 <Samu> what is deemed acceptable as a pull request?
18:39:45 <LordAro> follows code style would be a good start :)
18:40:26 <LordAro> beyond that, they can be debated about as necessary
18:40:39 <LordAro> (and possibly closed as a BAD FEATURE)
18:41:00 <Samu> i dunno how many patches I got here... about 182 files unsorted
18:41:21 <Samu> i dont think u want 182 pull requests
18:41:36 <LordAro> surely there aren't 182 separate features
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18:42:43 <Samu> ok, time to clean up stuff that was already implemented/rejected/fixed, etc...
18:42:52 <LordAro> probably a good start
18:44:24 <LordAro> but seriously, branch per feature/bugfix, multiple commits per branch
18:44:54 <LordAro> i'm expecting maybe 10 branches
18:45:16 <LordAro> (branches do not need to become pull requests)
18:46:38 <Samu> is 1 single commit a bad idea for such a large feature?
18:47:24 <LordAro> depends on the feature :p
18:47:47 <LordAro> for starters, the commit message is far too generic, "overhaul" doesn't explain to me what the feature is at all
18:48:32 <Samu> but i'm also doing a few other things than just altering the gui
18:48:49 <LordAro> right, so those should be in separate commits
18:50:02 <LordAro> commits should be, in general, as small as still makes logical sense - reorganise code in one commit, add new code (and use it) in another
18:50:58 <andythenorth> electro-diesels with pantograph
18:51:07 <andythenorth> hide pantograph on non-elrail?
18:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> as visual indication which power value they use?
18:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause> lowered/raised pantograph
18:56:14 <Samu> ugh, build on competitor canal needs to be modified, you recently made changes to the map tiles
18:56:22 <Samu> it completely broke this one
18:56:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: more it just looks weird sticking up when there's no wires
18:57:03 <andythenorth> and obvs it's an easy BAD FEATURE
18:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, real pantographs cannot be raised without a wire above them, otherwise they fling to a point where you cannot lower them anymore
18:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they need the counterpressure of the wire to not cross this "point of no return"
19:04:39 <Samu> Check Bankruptcy Before Infrastructure Costs yay, this one was implemented :p
19:08:13 <andythenorth> pantograph can use a sprite layer :P
19:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be possible now
19:08:46 <Samu> faster server autosaves was rejected, wasn't it? I recall reading something from Alberth
19:10:53 <LordAro> all issues were imported to github, you should be able to search for it
19:13:01 <LordAro> (and flyspray is still up anyway)
19:21:59 <andythenorth> anyone want to approve some PRs? o_O
19:22:00 <Samu> restart dead ai was a bad feature, deleting
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19:23:43 <Samu> separate forbid 90 degrees for trains and ships
19:24:02 <Samu> was something done about this? i heard u talking about it a few days ago
19:25:07 <andythenorth> ships should never be forbidden
19:25:22 <Samu> what the patch do: have 2 settings for the 90 degrees, 1 for trains, 1 for ships
19:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> bids should never be forshipped
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19:28:41 <Samu> right... i have no idea wtf this was
19:29:24 <Samu> okay, not deleted, it's about build on competitor canal stuff
19:30:45 <Samu> terraforming rivers testing
19:31:12 <Samu> very experimental patch, really cool to see it work, but there's missing graphics
19:34:12 <Samu> variety changed to become a game setting v1 r27967 this was implemented, deleted
19:38:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: did nobody approve your PR yet? :|
19:40:00 <andythenorth> I've been given approval permissions
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19:41:48 <andythenorth> I've approved itr
19:41:52 <andythenorth> can't merge though
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19:54:13 <Samu> im still learning this github website
19:54:51 <Samu> how to turn an issue into a pull request ?
19:55:09 <Samu> i create a pull request and refer the issue?
19:55:56 <Samu> 1 single line pull request incoming
19:59:40 <Samu> You’re editing a file in a project you don’t have write access to. Submitting a change to this file will write it to a new branch in your fork SamuXarick/OpenTTD, so you can send a pull request.
20:04:23 <peter1138> Yeah, all changes are done in branches, not master.
20:04:30 <peter1138> git branches are nothing like svn branches.
20:04:52 <peter1138> They're way more... temporary in a way. Can be used like svn branches as well, though.
20:05:15 <Samu> i'm disappointed, how do i rename now?
20:05:19 <peter1138> I was going to play elite dangerous this afternoon, but when I loaded it up, my controller settings had been totally wiped. Not in the mood now :()
20:05:21 <LordAro> what's wrong with it?
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20:05:39 <LordAro> the branch name is irrelevant, other for keeping track of what change it is
20:05:58 <LordAro> there's no way to change it (in github web interface)
20:07:32 <peter1138> You can delete it. You can rename by making a new branch off it, and then deleting the old name.
20:07:51 <peter1138> If you already made a PR that would be a bad idea, though.
20:14:54 <Samu> why is that everytime i find help about git stuff, it's always using command line stuff? useless help!
20:15:13 <LordAro> because git is a command line program
20:15:17 <Samu> isn't there a right-click rename somewhere?
20:15:18 <LordAro> most people use it that way
20:15:30 <LordAro> because it's not just a folder you can rename
20:16:34 <Samu> they really like to make it hard to program
20:18:17 <LordAro> well if you insist on not reading the documentation, that's to be expected
20:18:47 <LordAro> https://www.sublimemerge.com/ i've not tried it myself, but this was released recently and i've heard good things about it, you might get on with it better than tortoisegit
20:21:18 <LordAro> your approach to software is weird
20:21:21 <Samu> patch-1 Deleted just now by SamuXarick
20:21:55 <LordAro> anyway, please just go read some stuff about how git actually works
20:22:08 <LordAro> instead of your usual flailing
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20:22:25 <LordAro> (hint: i shouldn't have to use the phrase "usual flailing" more than once)
20:42:01 <Samu> there I go again, failing
20:46:04 <Samu> this is so disappointing...
20:46:41 <nielsm> the error is that you put [AI] before the :
20:47:02 <nielsm> Fix #6460: [AI] add start_date parameter for Random AIs on new game
20:47:53 <Samu> how am I to fix that now?
20:48:30 <michi_cc> git commit --amend to fix the message and then git push -f to update
20:48:30 <LordAro> but you guessed, it that probably involves using the command line
20:48:39 <nielsm> then you can edit the commit message
20:48:47 <nielsm> and then you have to git push --force
20:48:49 <LordAro> i made the same mistake with the commit message in my PR
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20:57:00 <Samu> absolutely no idea what are these install options and checks, I just click next next next
20:58:08 <LordAro> and you wonder why you don't understand thing
20:59:03 <Samu> i'm forced to download trash to fix 1 little thing...
20:59:28 <Samu> it's how I feel about all this
20:59:44 <LordAro> try learning something
21:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have exactly two people on my ignore list... one for being incapable of learning, and one for being an asshole
21:06:14 <LordAro> it's andy, isn't it? :p
21:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i would use the forum ignore list more, if it wasn't such an incredibly useless feature
21:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> cause there's two or three more people like that, that i really wish i could ignore
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22:29:56 <DorpsGek> LordAro: DanMack was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 7 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <DanMacK> LOL
22:31:21 <LordAro> Samu: you've made a new commit, rather than amending the previous one
22:31:38 <LordAro> the keyword here is "amend" (--amend in commandline speak)
22:32:11 <LordAro> but regardless, now that you've got 2 commits, you'll need rebase
22:32:38 <Samu> I'm digging my own grave
22:33:51 <andythenorth> until you know how to do it, it's hard
22:33:55 <andythenorth> basic git is super easy
22:34:04 <andythenorth> more advanced git is not
22:37:51 <Samu> or if it did, nothing changed
22:38:34 <LordAro> assuming there's an actual error message ("didn't work" continues to be useless), it'll be because you've "rewritten history", or changed the commits in the branch (name, content, whatever)
22:38:39 <LordAro> you'll need to "force push"
22:39:19 <LordAro> in git gui this is "force overwrite existing branch"
22:39:49 <LordAro> well was there an error message?
22:39:52 <Samu> I ended up clicking commit
22:39:54 <LordAro> this is why didn't work is useless
22:40:24 <Samu> then I saw nothing changed on github
22:41:10 <LordAro> that was better, wasn't it?
22:41:33 <LordAro> so yes, commit did nothing because there were no changes, and push also did nothing because there were no changes
22:41:51 <Samu> the change was the message
22:42:06 <LordAro> well you've already pushed that
22:42:16 <LordAro> can you not see the second commit on github?
22:43:05 <LordAro> so when you say "nothing changed on github" ...?
22:44:26 <LordAro> and i have reopened it, because i am going to get this through your thick skull if it kills me
22:46:25 <Samu> if you're really up to help me
22:46:53 <LordAro> yes, i know it uses the commandline syntax, but just go with it
22:51:32 <Samu> i used git commit --amend in the command line, and I didn't know how to work with the editor
22:51:57 <Samu> i couldn't navigate or save the file, I simply didn't know how to work
22:53:27 <LordAro> yeah, if it dumps you into vi, you're probably going to have a bad time
22:53:36 <LordAro> prepending EDITOR=nano might help
22:55:47 <Samu> i need git rebase interactive from what I am reading
22:56:01 <Samu> i hope it's not another program I must install
22:56:16 <LordAro> it is, however, another commandline flag
22:56:29 <LordAro> `git rebase --interactive` (with the EDITOR thing from above)
22:57:10 <Samu> git rebase --interactive EDITOR=nano
22:57:29 <Samu> prepend, hmm not sure what is that
22:57:36 <LordAro> the opposite of append :p
22:57:42 <LordAro> (put it at the beginning)
22:59:59 <Samu> git 'EDITOR=nano' is not a git command :(
23:00:30 <LordAro> right at the beginning
23:00:47 <LordAro> (this tells your commandline to use the nano editor)
23:01:46 <Samu> 'EDITOR' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
23:02:14 <LordAro> and you're definitely running `EDITOR=nano git rebase --interactive` ?
23:02:33 <LordAro> you're actually using cmd for this, aren't you?
23:03:35 <Samu> $ EDITOR=nano git rebase --interactive fatal: not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
23:03:51 <LordAro> you still need to be in the correct directory
23:04:11 <LordAro> (change directory in the same way that you do in cmd)
23:04:17 <Samu> ahm, ok it's on D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub
23:04:28 <Samu> ahm, ok it's on D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD
23:04:36 <Samu> because the thing is dumb
23:05:42 <LordAro> right, so it's a slightly different syntax - cd /D/OpenTTD/...
23:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "EDITOR=nano" <-- surely there is a setting for that so you don't have to type it
23:07:09 <glx> git bash has a subset of MSYS2
23:07:20 <Samu> Ricardo@FX-8150 MINGW64 /D/OpenTTD/OpenTTD GitHub/OpenTTD (start_date-for-Random-AI)
23:07:38 <glx> yes there's a gitrc somewhere
23:07:57 <LordAro> i wasn't going to bother with that until later
23:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: something more global
23:08:10 <glx> and I think I just use notepad
23:08:23 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: .bashrc?
23:08:40 <glx> it's enough for git interactive
23:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: not quite what i meant
23:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: also that still requires you to be actually in bash
23:09:40 <LordAro> well, git checks various locations for its config dir
23:10:04 <glx> BTW my gitbash is powershell
23:10:05 <LordAro> (.)gitconfig doesn't have to be per-repo
23:10:37 <Samu> maybe i shall read another guide?
23:11:10 <LordAro> Samu: ah, my bad, i gave you the wrong command - git rebase --interactive origin/master
23:11:29 <LordAro> (specifies the source branch)
23:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what i probably meant: "git config --global core.editor nano"
23:13:25 <LordAro> i tend to forget i can actually edit the config with git
23:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i learned that basically yesterday
23:17:13 <LordAro> right, so you've got a list of the commits (oldest first) in your branch at the top, and a load of comments below them
23:18:25 <LordAro> you want to edit this file to tell the rebase to do what you want
23:19:00 <LordAro> in this case, i'd recommend a reword for the first commit, and a fixup for the second
23:20:29 <LordAro> (if you've not used nano before - exit will give you the option of saving)
23:29:37 <Samu> where do I write these commands
23:29:46 <Samu> this thing looks like a text editor
23:30:25 <LordAro> it is indeed a text editor :)
23:30:46 <LordAro> and replace the "pick" command, as appropriate
23:30:49 <Samu> ah, it's a batch kind of thing?
23:31:54 <Samu> reword 3089aba46 Fix #6460 [AI]: add start_date parameter for Random AIs on new game
23:32:06 <Samu> reword 3089aba46 Fix #6460: add start_date parameter for Random AIs on new game
23:33:11 <LordAro> (another window will open to let you actually alter the commit message)
23:33:33 <Samu> really? I thought this was just text :(
23:34:10 <LordAro> well, another editor window
23:34:17 <LordAro> once you exit this one
23:36:55 <LordAro> excellent, now correct the commit message
23:38:09 <Samu> what about the refix? didn't open anything more :(
23:38:37 <LordAro> fixup happens automatically, no further input required
23:38:54 <LordAro> (read the comments at the bottom of the first rebase window again)
23:39:38 <Samu> like "squash" but blabla
23:39:51 <Samu> discard this commits message
23:40:28 <LordAro> you can work out enough to also read squash's description? :p
23:40:45 <LordAro> though i will admit "meld" is perhaps not the most obvious word to use
23:41:06 <Samu> use commit, but meld into previous commit
23:41:31 <LordAro> essentially, fixup takes that commit and combines it with the previous
23:41:56 <LordAro> squash does the same, but the commit messages are also combined (iirc, i don't often use squash)
23:42:31 <LordAro> rebase has been successful
23:42:39 <LordAro> now you need to push your changes
23:43:26 <LordAro> as mentioned previously, you've changed the contents of the branch, so git won't let you push normally (doesn't let you overwrite changes)
23:43:36 <LordAro> to force this, you need to ... force it
23:44:27 <LordAro> i always like to specify the remote and branch name when force pushing, to save other overwriting trouble
23:44:31 <Samu> there is the 1 behind, 2 ahead thing :(
23:45:32 <Samu> i dont have a push button, only a pull
23:45:40 <Samu> or do u mean to use the git bash commands?
23:46:05 <LordAro> git gui does have a force push option as well
23:46:08 <LordAro> it's one of the checkboxes
23:46:22 <Samu> oh, I was on GitHub Desktop
23:46:39 <glx> github desktop tends to mess things up
23:47:10 <glx> like adding stupid merge commits
23:47:36 <glx> when a basic rebase would be better
23:48:12 <LordAro> github has historically been very opposed to any sort of history rewriting
23:48:50 <LordAro> i was surprised when they added squashing
23:49:53 <glx> but for a PR branch it's safe to rewrite history
23:50:32 <LordAro> i much prefer the history rewriting workflow for PRs
23:50:42 <glx> never rewrite history in a shared repo
23:50:52 <Samu> what about the 1 behind, 2 ahead now?
23:51:02 <Samu> nevermind, doesn't have a pull
23:51:07 <glx> else coauthor will probably kill you
23:51:08 <LordAro> Samu: it should be gone
23:51:33 <LordAro> given the 2 commits that were there before have been replaced by the single commit
23:51:53 <LordAro> glx: eh, as long as you agree beforehand
23:52:23 <Samu> there's the Fix #6920: Make 9.8m/s^2 a common constant for TE-calculation that appeared in-between :(
23:52:40 <glx> anyway it makes sense to not mess with history when other work on the same repo
23:53:05 <Samu> yes, I made my first commit, then this one appears, then i made my second commit
23:53:19 <Samu> and now I pushed this 3rd edit
23:53:23 <LordAro> can you share what you're seeing?
23:54:57 <LordAro> because you rebased on top of origin/master, your changes were applied to the latest commit on the master branch, which includes the TE-calculation commit
23:55:02 <LordAro> it's clever like that
23:56:01 <glx> git fetch origin, then git rebase origin/master
23:56:16 <LordAro> glx: upstream i think, judging by the screenshot
23:56:58 <LordAro> Samu: slight adjustment to what i said above, because "origin" is your fork, and "upstream" is OpenTTD/OpenTTD
23:57:37 <LordAro> because you rebased on top of origin/master, which is your fork, your changes were applied to the latest commit on the master branch of your fork, which did not include the TE-calculation commit
23:57:49 <LordAro> hence, your branch does not include that commit, but upstream/master does
23:57:54 <LordAro> it's nothing to worry about
23:59:29 <glx> hmm yes maybe I mixed up things
continue to next day ⏵
