IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-09-19
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09:18:12 <LordAro> peter1138: poke wrt 6780 6784
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10:25:54 <Samu_> darn config settings poof'ed
11:46:52 <Samu_> Bridges will only be build starting on non-flat tiles * for performance reasons.
11:47:03 <Samu_> damn performance reasons
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16:11:57 <Samu> can buses transport other cargo than passengers?
16:12:24 <Samu> are there weirdo newgrfs that change these kind of rules?
16:14:08 <nielsm> maybe the wastelanders thing?
16:18:48 <Samu> i selected passengers, it detects mail
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16:41:36 <Samu> so mail are wastelanders
16:41:49 <Samu> but bus stops are what they need
16:44:45 <Samu> oh, it actually built a bus station
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17:56:11 <m3henry> LordAro: would breaking the SmallVector -> std::vector up in to individual pull requests for each type be a more manageable strategy?
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17:59:37 <andythenorth> peter1138 electric bike happened
18:03:52 <LordAro> m3henry: probably not individual PRs, but the commits could be a bit more "logical"
18:04:33 <andythenorth> the one in the photo seems to lack them
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18:05:37 <andythenorth> limited stock, I wanted a bike
18:05:42 <andythenorth> so chose what they had
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18:07:21 <m3henry> Oh I didn't spot the response
18:08:23 <m3henry> what exactly do you mean by more '"logical"'
18:32:23 <LordAro> m3henry: one logical change at a time - i imagine something that adds the (temporary) functions for vector, a (massive) commit that updates types/functions (should be close to one for one line changes), then more commits that neaten up the code (auto, for loops, std algorithms, etc)
18:33:43 <m3henry> So that would be 3 PRs then?
18:35:12 <LordAro> you could make an argument that the latter commits could be separate PRs, but i don't see the benefit
18:35:33 <LordAro> ideally, the temporary functions wouldn't exist in the master branch at any point, imo
18:36:12 <m3henry> I was thinking of slowly removing usage of Smallvector directly
18:37:27 <LordAro> m3henry: my own thought was to make smallvector a child class of std vector
18:37:35 <LordAro> not sure how well that would woek in practice
18:39:13 <m3henry> That might work well actually
18:40:41 <m3henry> The implementation of smallvector can be changed to use std::vector, and slowly things switch to using std::vector's interface, finally the types can be changed from smallvector to std::vector and smallvector removed
18:43:01 <m3henry> It has the added benefit that 'logical change' can be grouped by method, rather than by type
18:43:26 <LordAro> Begin & End should be easy :p
18:44:19 <m3henry> If that's the route that would be easiest to review then I wil pursue that
18:44:39 <LordAro> seems to me like it might be
18:44:49 <LordAro> might want to check with an actual dev though :p
18:45:25 <m3henry> AsS you already pointed out it's a large pile of work and it makes sense to know what strategy will fit in with the review methodology before starting
18:53:00 <m3henry> I'll check back when I get home (45mins)
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19:10:29 <andythenorth> 141 trains drawn, 55 to go
19:10:36 <Samu> how do i use superlibs road pathfinder? I'm trying to look for a smarter/faster road pathfinder
19:11:08 <Samu> roadpathfinder4 is dumb when it finds rails and rivers
19:11:26 <andythenorth> samu you need a bear :)
19:12:27 <Samu> oh, i usually talk to myself
19:12:37 <Samu> or use this chat, as ppl have mentioned
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19:14:52 <Samu> A wrapper around the A* based road path finder library. It changes some costs and adds ability to cross rail/canals with bridges.
19:20:36 <andythenorth> Samu: but if you use the channel as a bear, I can't :P
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19:29:29 <Samu> import("Util.SuperLib", "SuperLib", 40);
19:29:41 <Samu> now how do i pathfind with it
19:30:31 <andythenorth> Iron Horse 2 has some serious conceptual flaws
19:31:04 <andythenorth> there should be a newgrf called that
19:31:58 <andythenorth> TL;DR there are some minor issues with my set design
19:32:20 <andythenorth> but usually $someone here has to point out that the problem is that there are problems with my design
19:32:28 <andythenorth> and if my design was good, there would be no problems with it :)
19:32:37 <andythenorth> usually it's V453000 or Eddi|zuHause
19:32:37 <LordAro> probably is a pub called that already
19:32:51 <andythenorth> possibly the only time V453000 and Eddi|zuHause outright 100% agree on something
19:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if V and me agree on something, you have a serious problem :p
19:33:37 <andythenorth> at that point Eddi|zuHause, I then have two problems :P
19:34:01 <andythenorth> my design assumes 6 train generations
19:34:11 <andythenorth> except for metro (3)
19:34:21 <andythenorth> and narrow gauge (undecided)
19:34:33 <andythenorth> this causes some odd-looking code (fixable) and some design headaches
19:35:21 <andythenorth> maintaining progression and some sort of relative balance is tricky when interleaving 4 NG generations into 6
19:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not a fan of the minimalist approach: "i arbitrarily decided to have at most X things, now i need to cut away stuff that makes sense"
19:35:55 <andythenorth> also, there are 6 wagon generations, speed limited
19:36:07 <andythenorth> but NG only has one generation, no speed limit
19:36:15 <andythenorth> which seems inconsistent in a non-useful way
19:36:24 <andythenorth> player has to learn how the set works twice
19:36:37 <andythenorth> FLHerne: I have looked at Eritrea for Horse
19:36:52 <andythenorth> it's an unusual triumph of human effort in difficult circs
19:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> is that much different from other african railways?
19:37:12 <andythenorth> they managed to preserve ancient rolling stock through a civil war
19:37:19 <andythenorth> with basically no funds
19:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of african places had a civil war, though
19:39:02 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Even by African standards, it's tiny
19:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there is this railway in tansania, where delays are measured in "if the train doesn't come today, it'll come tomorrow"
19:41:36 <andythenorth> well I could draw 3 generations of NG wagon
19:42:02 <andythenorth> the visual difference will be pretty minimal
19:42:03 <FLHerne> (that was the only passenger service at that end of the line)
19:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that does look a bit more improvised than average :p
19:43:05 <FLHerne> The wiki article says they have a /fleet/ of those converted trucks
19:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, using trucks for rail is not that uncommon in developing countries
19:43:08 <andythenorth> making 3 different ones is limited
19:43:24 <andythenorth> lol railbikes :)
19:43:27 <andythenorth> they are common-ish too
19:43:30 <FLHerne> I guess once you've figured out how to build one, you might as well make some more
19:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a video of a railway in thailand or burma or something like that
19:44:52 <andythenorth> yeah I am looking for the myanmar stuff
19:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that is the one i watched
19:46:46 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: I mean, other countries have odd underresourced branches in backwater areas
19:47:13 <FLHerne> This is the most-improvised thing I've seen forming the entire national network
19:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess you're right about that
19:48:48 <FLHerne> It's an odd underresourced branch, except it connects the two largest cities
19:49:06 <andythenorth> Iron Water Buffalo
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19:51:09 <andythenorth> and I assume that's the fuel tank on the roof
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20:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> saves a fuel pump to put the tank on the roof
20:12:15 <andythenorth> hope there are no low bridges
20:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if you watch the video above, the guy who films it is clearly on top of that roof
20:17:05 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if 6 wagon generations is a BAD IDEA
20:17:10 <andythenorth> but I found nothing better
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20:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have about 4½ cargo wagon generations and about 5 or 6 passenger generations, but it's not very clean
20:47:46 <andythenorth> it makes a mess with speeds
20:47:58 <andythenorth> if only we had vehicle groups in buy menu
20:57:36 <andythenorth> so I need 3 or 4 NG wagon generations
20:57:53 <andythenorth> pictures of wagons would help :P
21:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> 1880, 1920, 1960 and 2000?
21:06:48 <andythenorth> 1860, 1950, 1990 apparently
21:06:57 <andythenorth> NG speed seems to be capped 35mph until 1950
21:07:02 <andythenorth> that might be accident not design
21:07:34 <andythenorth> but it has a limited range to work within
21:07:51 <andythenorth> currently caps out at 55mph, could go to 65mph, but quite quite unrealistic :)
21:17:44 <Amadar> Anyone out there to talk?
21:18:00 <DorpsGek> LordAro: English only
21:18:07 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
21:18:46 <Amadar> Anyone know where I can find traffic for the town, besides my own?
21:19:43 <LordAro> cars grf + towncars ai usually, right?
21:21:01 <Samu> superlib road pathfinder is slower :(
21:21:58 <Amadar> Would be great for town traffic to somehow hinder your path to success too. More challenging.
21:26:22 <Amadar> Anyone need some tips? Welcome to share mine.
21:27:01 <Amadar> Also have challenge for those who play single player.
21:31:50 <Amadar> Anyone playing sinlge player, here goes. Fire up a new game, pick a spot and place your HQ. From the town you have picked build your depots only in this town and try to expand your empire. Switch OFF repairs in settings. See how hard it can be.
21:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> other than placing hq, that sounds mostly how i play my games
21:37:25 <LordAro> could you achieve that via gameacript, i wonder?
21:37:43 <andythenorth> I use escape depots a lot
21:37:44 <LordAro> can't restrict placing depots/stations, can you?
21:37:49 <andythenorth> I would have to change play style
21:38:00 <Amadar> I would love to a script for it, unfortunately I can't code yet.
21:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> gamescript cannot prevent building, but immediately destroy
21:38:20 <LordAro> heh, financial punishment for trying
21:39:04 <Amadar> Sadly no, true to yourself, placing depots only in the town. quite a challengfe to get our trains from one depot, stop others and route the new trains to their new destinations.
21:39:55 <Amadar> It gets hectic once you have a booming network.
21:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fine for trains, but busses or trams?
21:41:32 <Amadar> How do you setup a scenario playing online server. Saw some games that notions; first player to reach 4000 habitants wins.
21:41:59 <Amadar> Tried to create a game, but no such options. Maybe a script?
21:42:17 <Amadar> Busses and trams the same rule applies.
21:42:35 <Amadar> See your HQ and official start point is where everything branches out.
21:42:51 <Amadar> Makes the game even tougher if played on a large map.
21:42:52 <LordAro> andythenorth: nice article btw
21:43:03 <LordAro> that guy is my spirit animal
21:43:07 <andythenorth> although kinda moany
21:43:32 <andythenorth> the "google keyboard is bigger than win 95" is an interesting point
21:45:02 <Amadar> Maybe we can setup a multiplayer online and hit the game.
21:58:48 <Amadar> Thanks for the chat, hitting the deck - hope to hear from you guys again.
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23:15:49 <Samu> so I'm updating the AI version info, and it complains about HasNext does not exist
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23:35:21 <Samu> i change every HasNext into !IsEnd?
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23:45:17 <LordAro> HasNext hasn't existed in... 7 years?
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