IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-09-07
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01:04:36 <glx> Samu_: you can use a valuator on your town list
01:05:44 <glx> and you can also write your own valuator
01:06:54 <glx> like you take the most profitable town then valuate with a function calculating distances to this town
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01:55:36 <Samu_> that was the area search where it can build the 2nd airport
01:55:56 <Samu_> 1st airport is at Mennville
02:01:48 <Samu_> for (local tile = 0; tile <= AIMap.GetMapSize(); tile++) {
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03:07:46 <Samu_> takes 60 days to iterate the whole map on very fast/250k ops
03:08:26 <Samu_> 60 days to build an airport route in a 4k map isn't that bad, but requiring very fast/250k ops is bad :(
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03:10:18 <Samu_> if i get more than 200 days, then it sucks
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12:02:37 <Samu> found 2 ways to do the thing
12:02:49 <Samu> method 2 is highly innacurate :(
12:04:13 <Samu> method 1 is ultra mega super slow in 4k maps
12:07:24 <Samu> there could be some potential towns missing
12:08:03 <peter1138> What does closestTowns contain?
12:08:47 <Samu> closestsTowns starts equal to town_list, so they're basically all available towns
12:09:29 <peter1138> I'd've thought you would be building a list UP instead of copying a whole list and removing each item.
12:10:01 <Samu> okay, I lie, they're not really all avaiable towns
12:12:22 <Samu> they're all the towns that have not been used yet, without an airport yet
12:12:51 <Samu> they're also towns that haven't been tried recently in the last batch of 10 failed searchs
12:13:53 <peter1138> So what makes it inaccurate?
12:14:05 <Samu> it's the center tile of the town
12:14:13 <Samu> it only looks for that tile
12:14:23 <Samu> doesn't search its surroundings
12:15:24 <Samu> there could be a potential tile a bit away from the center tile that could accept an airport
12:16:43 <Samu> it can exclude some towns based on the center tile alone
12:17:23 <Samu> have you seen yesterday screenshot?
12:17:54 <Samu> easier to explain if I look at it
12:18:59 <Samu> method 2 only searches the center tile of a town
12:20:02 <Samu> center tile of towns that are in the periphery of the ring wouldn't be chosen
12:21:12 <Samu> well, imagine 4k maps, the huge size of the ring and you can imagine the amount of towns that could it be missing
12:21:50 <Samu> that screenshot is of a 512*512 map
12:22:39 <Samu> an example is tonnley, if you can spot it
12:22:44 <Samu> it's just a few tiles away from the ring
12:23:10 <Samu> an airport could be potentially placed in part of the town
12:23:18 <Samu> the part located north, inside the ring
12:23:25 <Samu> and yet, method 2 didn't include it
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12:26:36 <Samu> or froning*something, or penbourne, or past the ring, like frunley at the top right
12:28:16 <peter1138> Why would the first method include it?
12:28:41 <Samu> because it's 100% accurate
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12:29:38 <Samu> or am i seeing things wrong?
12:30:42 <peter1138> First you build a circle of possible tiles. Then you loop through each town and test if your tile list contains the location of a town.
12:31:22 <peter1138> Method 2: you loop through each town and determine if the distance is permitted.
12:32:12 <Samu> looks like im doing it wrong for method 1, that's not what I intended :|
12:32:24 <peter1138> that's what you wrote..
12:32:32 <peter1138> What did you... think... you'd written?
12:32:37 <user_666> I used the content commands to download a scenario to my server, how am I supposed to proceed now? it downloaded a .tar that i can see via ftp but not via rcon ls in the content_downloaded directory
12:33:42 <Samu> damn, let me see what I can do
12:35:46 <peter1138> No seriously, what did you think you'd written?
12:36:26 <Samu> that the closest town to that tile was belonging to the town_list
12:37:33 <peter1138> Samu, don't use that.
12:38:06 <user_666> anyone? even worse is when i manually put .scn files on the server, i don't see them via rcon ls, so i cant start a scenario
12:40:47 <peter1138> Samu, if you do, restrict it to only ROAD or TOWN tiles. Otherwise, *each call* of that method will loop every single town again.
12:41:24 <Samu> // if (!tileList.HasItem(AITown.GetLocation(AITile.GestClosestTown(tile)))) {
12:43:52 <Samu> looks like I need an extra list?
12:46:40 <Samu> gonna build up the list of towns instead of tearing it down, it seems
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12:54:21 <Samu> if i can't use GetClosestTown, then .... hmm m:(
12:57:48 <Samu> the index tile does not exist, hahaha i'm so terrible
13:02:53 <Samu> there, now it is running
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13:06:32 <Samu> nevermind, the index town does not exist, why am I so terrible :(
13:07:51 <Samu> closestTownscopy.AddItem(closest_town, tile);
13:08:01 <Samu> fixed* only needed 5 tries
13:10:19 <Samu> testing how terribly slow it is right now
13:13:14 <Samu> on a 4k map with 250k ops/very fast
13:13:59 <Samu> but with the defaults of 10k ops/medium, it won't do anything for years
13:18:03 <Samu> okay, so i can't iterate the whole map, and then i can't use GetClosestTown
13:18:25 <Samu> how to improve method 2 ?
13:21:50 <Samu> this screenshot shows how many towns are found when using both methods
13:22:38 <Samu> finally exposed the innacuracy problem of method 2
13:23:52 <Samu> only accounts for 79% of towns
13:26:12 <Samu> btw there is a huge stall when GetClosestTown is executed
13:26:23 <Samu> can barely move the mouse
13:26:51 <peter1138> 11:40 <@peter1138> Samu, if you do, restrict it to only ROAD or TOWN tiles. Otherwise, *each call* of that method will loop every single town again.
13:27:41 <Samu> well, but... method 1 is to be eliminated
13:28:04 <Samu> unless you know of a better way to iterate the full map
13:30:07 <peter1138> You don't need to iterate the full map anyway.
13:40:56 <Samu> well, i'm going to use method 2 for the time being
13:41:10 <Samu> until I figure out a way to improve it
13:52:18 <Samu> At least I learned a new thing
13:52:42 <Samu> i've used it in a few places
13:54:10 <peter1138> Not evil, just brute force. It's okay on a town tile, that's about it.
13:58:37 <Samu> tileList.Valuate(AITile.GetClosestTown);
13:59:06 <Samu> at least now I know the source of the slowdowns
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14:01:42 <Samu> if i don't use it, i'm going to start placing airports in the wrong towns
14:02:08 <Samu> and those asserts will trigger
14:04:46 <Samu> if there are 2 towns near each other
14:05:51 <Samu> and I am looking to place it in town x, it could sometimes find town y to be a better spot for the airport, the valuator is used to ensure I always put the airport it town x
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16:11:55 <Samu> due to the order of things being shited around, i can't keep track of tried towns as easily :(
16:15:50 <Samu> I used to have: for town A to Z { for airporttype 1 to 9 } }
16:16:05 <Samu> now I got for airporttype 1 to 9 { for town A to Z } }
16:16:44 <Samu> can't just add a town to triedtown list as I used to
16:25:24 <Samu> pff, how am I gonna guess ahead of time :(
16:35:17 <Samu> for town A to Z { for airportype 1 to 9 } } is still the better order
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17:53:30 <Samu> according to NoNoCAB, there really are 12544 towns in a 4k map
17:55:40 <Alberth> good luck connecting them all
17:57:01 <Samu> it is averaging 9 days for each time it succeeds building an airport route in a 4k map now
17:57:18 <Samu> haven't tested larger airports yet
17:59:40 <Samu> dont think it's possible
18:00:10 <Samu> 1 vehicle per 2 towns that's 10k towns
18:00:37 <Samu> unless i tell it to go to 3 different towns
18:00:58 <Alberth> yeah, you need to make longer lines so trains serve more cities
18:02:01 <Samu> NoNoCAB has the strongest start no matter what I do :p
18:03:01 <Alberth> limit connection to a small part of the map?
18:04:41 <Samu> i'm also doing a different test, each ai starts with 100 million £
18:05:14 <Samu> my current implementation starts the strongest, hmm so the search is fast
18:05:18 <Alberth> :o I wish I had such an amount money :)
18:05:43 <Samu> the management of the first routes is the issue
18:05:47 <Alberth> quickly change it to euros before the brexit :)
18:05:49 <Samu> they're probably not the best
18:06:15 <Samu> well, I dont use full loads
18:06:27 <Samu> yeah, that kind of things actually help
18:07:20 <Samu> it's just go to station a or b, load/unload if available
18:07:32 <Samu> and i let it do the servicing on its own
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18:44:57 <andythenorth> I read forums :|
18:50:17 <andythenorth> acs121 continues to spread misinformation :P
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18:57:08 <Samu> Wormnest: your NoNoCAB is really strong with aircraft early game
18:57:10 <peter1138> Cos I don't read it.
18:59:00 <andythenorth> it doesn't matter, forums are over :)
18:59:11 <andythenorth> just need somewhere else to announce newgrf updates now :P
18:59:21 <andythenorth> do I have to crack and get a reddit account?
19:00:22 <Samu> well at least my ai has one advantage over the others I'm testing
19:00:57 <Samu> but not the most profitable way
19:01:11 <Samu> that goes to NoNoCAB he's just the king, leaves everyone else in the dust
19:02:35 <Samu> Admiral AI is half of NoNOCAB
19:02:53 <Samu> and my AI is 3rd at 1/3 of Admiral AI
19:03:10 <Samu> that makes it 1/6 or NoNoCAB?
19:03:58 <Samu> i thought AIAI was strong
19:04:17 <Samu> at least in my previous tests it came out first
19:04:24 <Samu> must be strongest later on
19:10:41 <andythenorth> oof can't compile
19:14:39 <andythenorth> who fixed FFWD on mac os?
19:18:11 <andythenorth> eh the frame rate window exists now :D
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19:21:43 <andythenorth> I think it's better than trunk 'improved' trees which spams them everywhere
19:21:50 <andythenorth> but I'm not convinced it's better enough
19:22:08 <andythenorth> and I think, on ffwd, that trees still disappear over time
19:32:58 <lethosor> andythenorth: fast forward? There was a PR to decouple simulation from graphics frame rate, but not platform specific
19:33:52 <andythenorth> it's probably some unfathomable combination of new mac + mac OS changes + deps changes + openttd changes
19:34:35 <lethosor> What, fast forward specifically or some compiler issues?
19:35:56 <andythenorth> fast forward being fast again
19:36:19 <andythenorth> 40 years in about 5 mins
19:36:37 <andythenorth> oh it's slowed down now, 3 AIs started
19:36:47 <lethosor> That's almost certainly due to the openttd changes I mentioned
19:45:59 <andythenorth> I might just be imagining it
19:46:03 <andythenorth> I don't have timing data :)
19:59:06 <Samu> I wish 4k maps could fast forward faster
19:59:16 <andythenorth> because they're too big
19:59:24 <andythenorth> they should just be removed
20:01:03 <Samu> i suspect this game would run well on an intel processor
20:03:36 <Samu> Wormnest: what exactly the think faster option
20:04:06 <Samu> it will build more stuff in less time?
20:04:20 <Samu> speaking in airport routes
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20:08:11 <Samu> ah, it should have been fast
20:13:04 <LordAro> mistakes in the german? i suspect not :p
20:13:26 <andythenorth> poor deliveroo rider
20:13:33 <andythenorth> curry house is bottom of a hill
20:13:54 <peter1138> Christmas shit in the supermarkets already :(
20:15:12 <andythenorth> 36m elevation difference
20:16:29 <andythenorth> oh google maps has a height thing now too
20:17:08 <andythenorth> peter1138: is the John Lewis ad on yet? :P
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20:36:07 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 0.0318571428571
20:36:23 <LordAro> 3% hill, i think they'll cope :p
20:37:15 <andythenorth> I cycle it home from work
20:43:51 <andythenorth> is the next step
20:43:57 <andythenorth> downtube or hub motor? o_O
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21:13:35 <Samu> NoNoCAB just manages to do a much better start to enjoy a wealthy advantage in the early years
21:15:08 <Samu> large airports are coming soon
21:15:16 <Samu> things might shift once again
21:16:14 <Samu> Wormnest: NoNoCAB only keeps track of 2000 towns, right?
21:17:22 <Samu> so... uh that seems LuDiAI AfterFix has greater chances to take the lead
21:18:22 <Samu> there's also WormAI in the test, but it's currently buried down
21:19:06 <Samu> large airports are coming...
21:21:00 <Samu> NoCAB, the original one, can't start in a 4k map, it makes openttd poof
21:21:09 <Samu> that's why I am not testing it
21:35:22 <Samu> I hope I don't have to deal with the issue of lost helicopters
21:35:46 <Samu> they're not exactly lost, but they're not being sold when they become old
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21:47:47 <peter1138> andythenorth, legs.
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