IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-08-19
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07:18:29 <Endymion> Hi, two questions: 1. Is there a way to see the Station Ratings in-game? 2. Is it possible to get the calculation of producers/consumers easily visible to the user?
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13:45:12 <Samu> it's difficult to make decent mail services
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13:58:00 <Samu> Wormnest: any tricks to keep mail services profitable?
14:01:51 <andythenorth_> FIRS Extreme for each climate? o_O
14:16:36 <Alberth> wouldn't call it "extreme", it's a bad name to indicate the topic of an economy
14:17:01 <Alberth> likely that holds for "basic" too, but fair enough
14:17:09 <andythenorth_> opposite of “Basic”?
14:17:18 <andythenorth_> oh you said that :)
14:17:57 <Alberth> "steeltown" gives a much better idea of what to expect,imho
14:19:39 <Alberth> also, you're missing toyland climate :)
14:20:51 <Alberth> haven't played in quite some time
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14:23:24 <andythenorth_> Delete Extreme? o_O
14:24:17 <Alberth> why would you want to do that?
14:24:29 <Alberth> you spend a few weeks developing it :)
14:24:42 <andythenorth_> i kind of wonder what it’s for :)
14:24:54 <andythenorth_> It was never designed
14:25:02 <Alberth> the name is not so good, but as it's one of a kind, it's "well defined"
14:25:59 <Alberth> what do you mean, not designed, you changed it for a couple of weeks at least
14:26:03 <andythenorth_> “Max Temperate”
14:26:48 <Alberth> I'd consider a lucky accident, and leave it at that :)
14:27:47 <Alberth> some players like to play it, well, why not
14:28:16 <Alberth> not like RL industry chains are carefully designed at global level :p
14:29:21 <andythenorth_> RL industry is much more insane than I ever anticipated
14:29:51 <andythenorth_> all the unexpected inputs and by-products
14:30:06 <andythenorth_> and regional variations
14:31:08 <Wormnest> Samu: I have never specifically targeted mail
14:33:30 <Alberth> all local optimization :)
14:36:22 <andythenorth_> this started because I wondered about bananas cargo :p
14:39:09 <Alberth> sounds more like a "in a hot country" cargo
14:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> grr, just wanted to type a reply
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14:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth_> because...? <-- before you even attempt that, you need to get some actual player feedback, instead of just iterating about how you think it's going to play out
14:44:40 <andythenorth_> well. good feedback is valuable
14:44:59 <andythenorth_> but feedback isn’t design
14:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> game design is hard, there are many player types, each one wants different things out of a game
14:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> some of those things are mutually exclusive and irreconcilable
14:46:16 <andythenorth_> I’ve sinplified it by only designing for a handful of players :)
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15:00:08 <Samu> i removed the station spreading feature of LuDiAI
15:00:42 <Samu> well, not exactly removed, I made a setting that disables it
15:01:42 <Samu> now I'm pondering if I default it to disabled, or leave it enabled
15:03:57 <Samu> your thoughts on the matter?
15:09:08 <Alberth> what does it actually do?
15:09:58 <Samu> with his busses and mail trucks
15:13:01 <Samu> there are station tiles nonot adjacent to each other but still belong to the same station
15:15:05 <Alberth> i'd leave it disabled by default, as that's what users expect
15:16:10 <Alberth> ie you're more likely to upset users by constructing disjoint stations than you are by not constructing them :)
15:16:49 <Alberth> you could add a section with suggestions to change for more competitive play in the readme file
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15:17:49 <Samu> when disabled, it doesn't expand them stations :(
15:23:37 <Alberth> you don't need disjoint stations for extending a station, do you?
15:24:48 <Alberth> if you want to expand a station can't you check first if a simple building of an additional platform is possible?
15:26:40 <Samu> ludiai can't, but i could try implement it
15:27:21 <Samu> ludiai doesn't build a platform if it finds any other within 2 tiles
15:31:45 <Samu> hmm this part of the code was already edited by me for solving the cpu evaluator problem
15:31:59 <Samu> and now I'm editing it even more :(
15:36:05 <Samu> i split it out of the evaluator function and made it basically two functions, this is one of them, the other is the evaluator function which became much smaller, maybe i should post it too
15:38:51 <Samu> in the case of expanding a station, the stationId exists and is not null
15:40:03 <Samu> whenever it returns true
15:40:19 <Samu> it means not to use that tile to place a platform
15:41:59 <Samu> if it returns false, it means there are no nearby stations and the tile can be evaluated with the valuatetruckstop function
15:47:21 <Alberth> code seems fine to me
15:47:47 <Alberth> not sure what it does exactly, but you likely know :)
15:52:00 <Samu> this is what makes it not place a platform next to the other
15:52:10 <Samu> but only a few tiles away
16:07:10 <Alberth> looks that way, but clearly you designed it as such for some reason
16:07:43 <Alberth> was that reason incorrect, or did you change your mind?
16:45:50 <Samu> this was already part of ludiai, i only split the function in two
16:57:18 <Samu> no expanding of stations even if adjacent
16:58:16 <Samu> now I'm onto another issue, about adjacent road tiles to the station tile
16:58:44 <Samu> a drivethrough station issue
17:03:04 <Samu> there are 4 adjacent tiles it considers
17:03:30 <Samu> the next and previous one in X and Y axis
17:04:06 <Samu> since it didn't find a road on one of the tiles, it reduced the number of adjacent tiles to 3
17:05:40 <Samu> now he's trying to get the nextAdjTile and see if it's the opposite of the adjTile so that it can build a drivethrough in the correct Axis
17:06:26 <Samu> essentially, it wants to find the tiles 58416 for the adjTile and 58418 for the nextAdjTile
17:06:37 <Samu> but it's failing to do so :(
17:07:53 <Samu> when it builds the drivethrough station, the function requires the tile where the station is placed and the next in front of it to get the correct orientation
17:10:43 <Samu> adjTile cannot be tile 58673 and that's what the code has used :(
17:12:24 <Samu> AIRoad.BuildRoad(adjTile, nextAdjTile
17:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: mostly mods, as far as i can see
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18:07:41 <Samu> could this code be improved?
18:08:13 <Samu> especially the part of using 2 AITileLists
18:09:38 <Samu> i tried to use the same list, but adjRoadTiles.HasNext() wasn't working properly
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18:30:54 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: which mods do you suggest? I think I'll give a try to move it, traffic manager and I should find some to place lines/road objects
18:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a mod for oneway rail
18:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and some train station stuff
18:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> last thing i tried was metro overhaul mod
18:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think i missed something there, i couldn't really get it to work
18:51:16 <Alberth> Samu: Why don't you compute all adjacent tiles from a tile that is in the list
18:51:50 <Alberth> likely only 2 adjacent tiles are enough in most cases
18:53:27 <Alberth> hmm, always inside the rectangle of the list eh? feels like it is always enough, but not sure
18:56:19 <Samu> they're adjacent to the tile in the middle
18:56:25 <Samu> not adjacent to each other
18:57:22 <Samu> the tile in the middle is the drivethrough station, and it has 2 adjacent tiles, its entrance and exit
18:57:40 <Samu> i am trying to get these entrance and exit tiles
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19:14:17 <Alberth> can't you ask the direction of the road in the middle?
19:14:25 <Alberth> entry and exist is trivial then
19:18:59 <Samu> no, at that phase I can't
19:19:32 <Samu> the station does not yet exist, these tiles are required to determine it's orientation
19:20:05 <Alberth> but you know the center tile?
19:20:20 <Alberth> then there are just 2 cases possible
19:20:53 <Alberth> no need to search for then, you can just create a tileindex one tile away from the center tile
19:21:57 <Alberth> or am i missing something?
19:26:09 <Samu> the middle tile has gone through other testings
19:27:30 <Samu> if(! ((AITile.IsBuildable(tile) || AIRoad.IsRoadTile(tile)) && AITile.GetSlope(tile) == AITile.SLOPE_FLAT)) {
19:27:36 <Samu> this is for the station tile
19:27:55 <Samu> it's also been through the evaluator
19:28:07 <Samu> and the nearby station checking stuff
19:28:21 <Samu> essentially, sometimes it is not a road
19:30:22 <Alberth> sure, but adjacent tiles to a tile are just +/- 1 in either x or y direction
19:30:33 <Alberth> you don't need to search for them
19:35:13 <Samu> I don't know how to do it another way :(
19:37:32 <Samu> adjRoadTiles can contain 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 tiles
19:38:26 <Samu> only tiles with roads are added, in a +/-1 X or Y direction
19:39:01 <Samu> this part of the code is reached in the case adjRoadTiles contain 3 or 4 tiles
19:41:43 <Samu> I don't get 4 tiles all the time, sometimes I get 3
19:42:31 <Alberth> my code only checks for tile existence, not whether they contain road
19:44:17 <Alberth> but if you construct the pairs of entry/exit, keep them together, so you can either discard them together, or use them together
19:44:31 <Alberth> thus eliminating the need to find the pair again
19:45:22 <Samu> if (adjRoatTiles.HasItem(tile1) && adjRoatTiles.HasItem(tile2))
19:46:08 <Samu> adjTile = tile1; nextAdjTile = tile2;
19:46:38 <Samu> yeah, seems to make the code simpler
19:48:51 <Samu> Utils::getOffsetTile(tile, offsetX, offsetY)
19:48:57 <Samu> i can use this function even
20:02:55 <Alberth> if there is always at least one pair, that seems fine
20:03:06 <Alberth> you may want to check that though
20:03:47 <Samu> yes, there's always one pair
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20:05:57 <Samu> thx for the help, it became much shorter
20:08:47 <Alberth> I'd say simpler rather than shorter, but yw :)
20:24:29 <Samu> ludiai was unable to build mail aircraft, i just fixed it
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20:25:21 <Samu> i'm now trying to deal with airports with too many airplanes, they can't all land
20:25:44 <Samu> how am I supposed to tackle this
20:28:37 <Alberth> how do you deal with bus stations with too many buses?
20:31:28 <Samu> if the ai detects too many cargo in an airport, it builds a new aircraft
20:32:13 <Samu> but if the airports become saturated, the profits for each aircraft becomes too small and the ai will then sell them
20:32:40 <Samu> this is a bad situation, got to improve it
20:32:57 <Samu> builds, then sells, then builds, then sells
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20:43:42 <Wormnest> You make a guess of what the route can handle based on distance, airport size and airplane speed
20:44:35 <Wormnest> Besides that you can try to detect if there are planes waiting in hangar for a free spot
20:46:33 <Samu> wrigthai code doesn't accommodate for aircraft speed :(
20:47:46 <Samu> on a route of distance 281 manhathan tiles
20:48:27 <Samu> (list2.Count() * 25 > dist)
20:48:52 <Samu> and shall not build more than 12
20:52:12 <Samu> I'm worried about the faster planes
20:54:51 <Samu> looks like 25 is a good number
20:55:04 <Samu> i'm not getting that many airplanes waiting to land
20:55:26 <Samu> 1 airplane each 25 tiles
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20:59:20 <Samu> perhaps i shall increase
21:00:20 <Samu> on a route with 12 aircraft, there's always 2 or 3 trying to land
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21:30:58 <Samu> slow management by wrightai
21:42:23 <V453000> the colour-trains-by-group didn't make it to trunk yet? :(
22:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> is it christmas already? man time flies so fast
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23:21:10 <Samu> there is a bug with WrightAI itself
23:21:24 <Samu> doesn't keep track of the correct aircraft used in a route
23:22:53 <Samu> waiting for an assert to trigger
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23:41:02 <Samu> ah, I think I know how to replicate
23:41:38 <Samu> a vehicleID 50 crashed and poofs
23:42:08 <Samu> wait, this is complicated to explain
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