IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-08-05
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00:04:48 <k-man> how do i find a factory on my map?
00:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there's the industry list, if you click the industry button at the top
00:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and on the map, you can switch to industry view, and enable/disable each kind of industry by clicking on it
00:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> particularly useful there is "blinking" by clicking on it repeatedly
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02:09:28 <k-man> my multiplayer window is too big, and the buttons at the bottom are off the bottom of the screen
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02:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what resolution are you playing?
02:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think there was some ctrl+click thing to resize it to the default size
02:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in case you resized it
02:38:38 <k-man> yeah tried that, didnt' work
02:38:49 <k-man> i managed to fix it by changing the resolution of the game
02:39:16 <k-man> next question, how do i cheat add more money?
02:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> cheats are disabled in multiplayer
02:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> save the game, load it in single player, cheat, load it back in multiplayer
02:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's so easy to make money, why would you even do that?
02:46:00 <k-man> for now we just need to learn about building stuff
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07:19:35 <k-man> except it's afternoon here
07:24:15 <Alberth> also, there is UGT (universal Greetings Time) in IRC, where everybody joins in the morning and leaves in the evening, no matter what local time says :)
07:25:07 <k-man> oh, i didn't know that concept either
07:25:39 <Alberth> me neither for many years, until I ran into the idea
07:25:46 <k-man> and I've only been using irc for like 25 years
07:25:55 <Alberth> it's a nice solution I think
07:28:12 <k-man> why are there no debian stretch builds of openttd?
07:29:02 <Alberth> likely because they are not built ;p
07:29:28 <Alberth> compiler farm is being restructured currently, I understood
07:29:40 <Alberth> don't know what the aim is though
07:30:02 <Alberth> but you can simply use the generic binary, you don't need to install it
07:30:32 <k-man> the jessie .debs work, but you have to muck around installing a few old dependencies
07:30:56 <k-man> the generic binary that is
07:32:01 <Alberth> I am used to the Fedora (RPM) system, and at work I now use an Ubuntu system. I find the Debian a little less easy to use
07:32:28 <Alberth> lots of small silly steps you have to be aware of
07:33:10 <k-man> i find i have that exact problem with ubuntu
07:33:32 <Alberth> oh, ubuntu itself is quite uselss :p
07:35:29 <Alberth> eg, to update a system, you first have to update the repo-lists as a separate step
07:35:29 <Alberth> I mean, you ever not want to do that when you want to update your packages?
07:36:33 <Alberth> but they'll get there? there is now finally a single "apt" command, instead of 4 or 5 different ones
07:36:48 <k-man> and you can now turn on auto updates
07:37:52 <Alberth> I do like to see what is changed, so it's not fully automatic, but ubuntu does automatically warn me
07:38:48 <Alberth> and there ubuntu is even smarter, it already downloads stuff, while fedora starts doing that after I say "update"
07:39:10 <Alberth> but al pretty minor differences :)
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07:55:53 <k-man> is there a keyboard shortcut for the land height level tool?
07:58:15 <Alberth> somewhere near wqe I think
08:00:41 <Alberth> trying to build flat tracks?
08:01:33 <k-man> its been a few years since i plaid
08:02:02 <Alberth> I stopped doing that a few years back, it makes track building much more fun, as you have to think how to exploit the landscape :)
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08:43:59 <k-man> i keep getting messages about no suitable ai
08:44:05 <k-man> what AI should I download?
08:44:31 <Alberth> you have a non-zero of AI players set, probably
08:45:40 <Alberth> ie it depends on what you like to have as competition :)
08:45:58 <Alberth> personally, I never play with an AI, it's just annoying :)
08:48:27 <andythenorth> or just set AI to 0
08:49:41 <k-man> yeah, how do i just turn off the npcs ?
08:50:47 <andythenorth> AI / GS Settings
09:05:15 <k-man> can you have more than one train loading at a time?
09:05:26 <k-man> i have 2 trains in the station, but only one gets cargo at a time
09:09:26 <Alberth> cargo is allocated to one train until it's full, then the next is filled
09:09:32 <Alberth> are you using cargodist?
09:09:49 <k-man> unless its turned on by default, probably not
09:09:52 <k-man> i don't know what that is
09:10:12 <Alberth> open station window, are there yellow "+" marks at the end of the cargo line?
09:11:02 <Alberth> ok, no cargodist then
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09:11:49 <Alberth> trains are all empty, and can accept the available cargo?
09:12:16 <k-man> i think its just the slow loading speed
09:12:50 <Alberth> train set decides loading speed, rather than the cargo
09:13:05 <k-man> do newer trains load faster?
09:13:17 <k-man> i noticed a newer engine seemed to load faster
09:13:44 <Alberth> if you use a newgrf for trains, pretty much anything is possible
09:13:55 <Alberth> but new trains also affect station rating
09:14:25 <Alberth> "there's loads" means there is a big stack at the station, or just the industry produces much?
09:15:01 <k-man> 499 tonnes waiting at station
09:15:37 <Alberth> open the train window, that fits in that one loading train?
09:15:56 <Alberth> slow loading also happens if your train is longer than the platform
09:16:26 <k-man> yeah, train is 5, and station is 5 units
09:17:27 <nielsm> with the original vehicles, they should load 5 units into every car about twice a day
09:17:35 <Alberth> that should be ok then
09:17:59 <nielsm> so a car with 4 cars can load 20 units at a time, and a car with 8 cars can load 40 units at a time
09:18:05 <k-man> its deffinitely loading them faster now
09:18:09 <k-man> notsure why it was slow before
09:18:29 <k-man> i think it had run out of coal before and I didn't notice
09:18:51 <Alberth> stack was smaller than expected :)
09:19:55 <Alberth> use the chips station set, you'll get cargo graphics displayed on the platform if there is cargo waiting
09:20:20 <Alberth> probably other station sets can do that too, no idea
09:20:37 <Alberth> I found chips simple enough for my purposes
09:21:05 <k-man> how do i get a station set?
09:21:38 <Alberth> but you need to install the newgrf, and that only works for a new game
09:21:55 <Alberth> ie once started a game, you cannot reliably change the setup
09:31:49 <k-man> why is my orders "unload and then take
09:32:32 <k-man> i click Unload all, and it seems to be unloading, then re-loading
09:33:01 <Wolf01> Does the station accept the cargo you are unloading?
09:34:29 <k-man> i built the station with 1 row of squares touching the power station, but it said it didn't accept coal
09:34:42 <k-man> i just increased the size of the station, now it accepts coal
09:34:57 <Wolf01> If you want to make a train to just unload and let the cargo wait there, like on a hub station, you must use "unload and leave empty"
09:37:47 <Wolf01> Also, don't use forced unload on stations which accept that cargo, IIRC it doesn't end up well :P
09:40:30 <k-man> so what do i make the order?
09:40:48 <Wolf01> Just make the train visit the station, it should handle itself
09:51:06 <nielsm> (large house with small smokestack)
09:52:33 <nielsm> on oil refineries, it's also only the flaming towers that accept oil
09:52:52 <peter1138> Well you deliver the coal to the plant, not to the stacks ;)
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10:20:23 <Wolf01> Could I be able to play diablo 3 without lag for 15 minutes today?
10:22:24 <Wolf01> Started a game: disconnected... it's like when you wake up dead
10:55:52 <TrueBrain> hhherrreeeeee's joohhnnyyyyy
10:57:08 <Wolf01> I don't think it's on my side
10:59:15 <andythenorth> what colour should bulldozers be then someone?
11:00:47 <andythenorth> I could randomise colours a bit
11:00:57 <andythenorth> because this isn't complicated enough already
11:01:11 <TrueBrain> NO! YELLOW! NO! NO andythenorth! NO!
11:01:19 <andythenorth> yellow is fine too
11:03:25 <Wolf01> So it seem I need to stream something like netflix, youtube or such while playing diablo or else I get lag spikes
11:05:38 <andythenorth> no I am making train grfs :P
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11:25:34 <TrueBrain> okay, added support for Pull Request notifications in DorpsGek_II
11:25:52 <TrueBrain> hopefully someone has a bit of idle CPU cycles to look at the code :)
11:26:15 <TrueBrain> PRs are a bit tricky .. a comment on a PR has very little information about the PR
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11:39:33 <nielsm> why does CargotypeListProp in nml/actions/action0propertise.py write bytex values when all (okay at least some of) the properties it gets used for take regular byte values and not bytex values
11:42:42 <andythenorth> possibly it's just wrong? o_O
11:42:55 <andythenorth> nml is pretty effective, but it's likely not at all perfect
11:43:22 * andythenorth goes back to wondering about indirection
11:43:26 <andythenorth> and why there's so much :|
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12:07:13 <andythenorth> is there a way to get reliable dict order in python? :P
12:07:26 <andythenorth> I know there's an OrderedDict but eh
12:07:35 <nielsm> dict is by nature unordered
12:07:44 <andythenorth> can I just sort result on .keys() every time?
12:07:49 <nielsm> so either OrderedDict, or an array of pairs
12:07:58 <andythenorth> yeah array of pairs is my usual solution
12:08:09 <andythenorth> kind of ugly to look at
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12:25:32 <nielsm> is it okay to use fancy python tricks in nml?
12:25:47 <nielsm> like [1, 1, 2, 4, 4][org_max] to get a value of 2 when org_max==2 and 4 when org_max==3
12:28:11 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: upgrade to .. Python .. 3.6? or 3.7? There dicts are always ordered :D
12:29:27 <nielsm> did it turn out the overhead of a tree or hash table structure was bigger than plain linear search?
12:31:50 <andythenorth> I am in python 3.5
12:32:01 <andythenorth> nielsm: that's not a fancy trick, that's just python, no? :P
12:32:27 <andythenorth> like doing ternary as (A, B)[boolean]
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12:54:54 <nielsm> hmm, how would it make sense to make the input_multipliers property?
12:55:26 <nielsm> the grf representation of list of triplets, or a long table, or what
12:55:39 <frosch123> i think list of triplets
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12:56:09 <frosch123> no idea what you mean with "long table"
12:56:36 <nielsm> does nml syntax allow arrays of arrays, or should I just assert that the array length is a multiple of 3?
12:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> look at the railtype translation table?
12:59:07 <frosch123> actually, how about: [ input1: [ output1: multiplier11, output2: multiplier12], input2: [..] ]
12:59:15 <frosch123> (no idea, about the [ and :
12:59:29 <frosch123> i just mean the structure of listing all outputs per input
13:00:07 <nielsm> I have zero experience reading or writing actual nml files, and the documentation is severely lacking in examples, so I really don't know what's customary :)
13:00:39 <nielsm> I don't even know what a property taking a simple list of values looks like
13:02:29 <frosch123> hmm,looks like all complex properties have separate definitions linked by name
13:05:08 <frosch123> hmm, looks like the tilelayout is the only property of similar complexity
13:08:46 <frosch123> it's somewhat weird since i do not think any layout is linked from multiple places
13:20:06 <k-man> do larger airports become available later in the game?
13:25:45 <nielsm> there's an overview of all the types
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13:28:59 <andythenorth> I probably can't rely on python 3.6 everywhere :P
13:29:58 <nielsm> assumed "print_bytex" meant writing one of those "extended byte" values
13:30:05 <nielsm> when it means writing a byte in hex formatting
13:32:11 <Wolf01> Voltron's black lion time
14:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's somehow unusally cold for a heat wave
14:10:16 <Wolf01> Try to move away from the air conditioner
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14:55:41 <nielsm> oh, house acceptance in nml is specified as an array of (pair) arrays
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15:52:15 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you want DorpsGek to create issues? :D I don't really follow :P
15:52:45 <TrueBrain> owh, you want to create them via the DorpsGek user?
15:53:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: did you make a script for this, or what is it I am looking at?
15:55:18 <frosch123> yes, i collected some tools and configured them to read from devzone and write to gh
15:56:15 <TrueBrain> are you using the /import/issues API of GitHub to create the issues?
15:56:19 <frosch123> it exports redmine issues as json, then applies some transformations for labels and stuff, and then it needs some github user and pw to be able to create issues on gh
15:56:59 <TrueBrain> as if you don't use the /import/issues API endpoint, you will hit the rate limiter really really quick :(
15:57:19 <frosch123> it uses the api with 5000 calls/day
15:57:29 <frosch123> but that is no issue for our redmine projects
15:57:32 <frosch123> they are not that big
15:57:54 <TrueBrain> there are many rate limiters .. sadly, there is also one that monitors for "how many emails do you send out, possibly"
15:58:03 <frosch123> there are only 400 issues for nml
15:58:05 <TrueBrain> creating issues is limited, to my estimation, 1 every 1 minute, for 10+
15:58:11 <frosch123> and that is already the biggest project
15:58:16 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I never managed to import 400 issues when not using the /import/issues :D
15:58:33 <TrueBrain> I don't know if you remember me complaining about it, but it is a huge pita :)
15:58:51 <TrueBrain> the /import/issues does not send any emails .. the normal /issues does .. which is heavily rate limited
15:59:13 <frosch123> planetmaker: did you get emails the other day?
15:59:31 <TrueBrain> cant you look in the tool what endpoint it uses? :D
16:01:19 <TrueBrain> the /import/issues API also lets you set the time of issues/comments; given they are all 6 days old, I am going to assume it is not using the proper API :D
16:01:52 <TrueBrain> still allows both ways ;)
16:03:28 <planetmaker> frosch123, e-mails from github on 30.7?
16:03:38 <planetmaker> about nml issues?
16:03:41 <TrueBrain> yeah .. so you won't make it through 400 imports :)
16:04:00 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, maybe about you being mentioned in some issue
16:04:09 <TrueBrain> you can try; but try it with an API token you are not using for anything else :P It will block the whole user every time :D
16:05:16 <TrueBrain> (I don't know if you remember, but it took me over a week to figure out why I couldnt import the stuff, and what was going on ..)
16:05:33 <frosch123> yes, i just assumed that these are way fewer issues
16:05:44 <frosch123> and i can also just import 50 and split it over 8 days
16:05:46 <TrueBrain> I couldn't get it to import more than 25 issues per hour :P
16:07:07 <TrueBrain> please dry-run it with a throw-away user; DorpsGek is now also used for DorpsGek_II, so blocking his API also has some other consequences :D
16:08:09 <TrueBrain> the /import/issues API is btw pretty nice; and allowing to set timestamps was also really helping, I think
16:08:16 <TrueBrain> but not sure how much effort you want to put in this :D
16:08:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: i removed the user mapping, i only could figure it out for 3 people anyway
16:09:12 <planetmaker> I don't think it's an issue...
16:09:41 <frosch123> well, but pointless :) i only know you, albert and me
16:09:52 <frosch123> most users are unlinked between devzone and gh
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16:15:32 <TrueBrain> feedback on the above line?
16:16:41 <TrueBrain> to complete the sequence :P
16:17:02 <peter1138> Looks sensible to me.
16:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> those messages seem like things better suited for #openttd.notice?
16:19:20 <frosch123> i like them here :)
16:19:31 <TrueBrain> people keep on complaining they have no notifactions here .. and once there are, people dont want them here :P
16:19:33 <frosch123> eddi can go to .notice
16:19:45 <TrueBrain> you people are funny :D
16:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the idea of .notice was that the bot can be more spammy there
16:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that was my understanding
16:20:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the question is the right balance
16:20:30 <frosch123> no, the idea was to make the bot post here to disrupt the channel spammers
16:20:31 <TrueBrain> I had 1 complain the nightlies are not working; I had 10 complains that .notice is not this channel :D
16:20:52 <frosch123> and to make andy feel less lonely
16:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: typical bikeshedding ratio
16:21:33 <LordAro> i could suggest that comments & closing PRs are not hugely relevant in here
16:21:53 <LordAro> (leaving commits/merges & opening PRs)
16:21:54 <planetmaker> I like those messages here, too. But bike shedding is soooo nice :)
16:22:17 <TrueBrain> well, the good thing is, it will be in the OpenTTD what is reported where, so you can fight that out among yourself :P
16:22:42 <TrueBrain> right, that means I only have to do issue create/comment/close, which should be easier
16:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if we compare it to "the (good?) (old?) past", we used to have the commits announced here, not new issues created on flyspray
16:24:53 <TrueBrain> I am not sure yet if I like the URL behind the title of the PR .. it looks a bit weird
16:25:07 <TrueBrain> but, lets be agile, and see how it works out in production
16:25:47 <TrueBrain> anyone feels like reviewing my work, or shall I just overwrite the "need review" and push this to production? :D
16:26:03 <nielsm> idea: if the bot is permanent in the channel, only post a summary of the change, and let (some?) users give a !details command or similar to get more about it
16:26:24 <TrueBrain> nielsm: lets call that !detail an URL? :D
16:27:05 <TrueBrain> and is there anything more besides what it just reported as "summary"?
16:33:48 <TrueBrain> nielsm: or did you have something completely different in mind with "post a summary"?
16:36:58 <frosch123> i think the url is the most important part
16:37:13 <frosch123> please don't hide that behind an additional command :)
16:37:28 <TrueBrain> I also think the URL is the 'detail' part
16:37:36 <TrueBrain> so no need for additional interaction
16:38:15 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek-irc and DorpsGek-github, yes
16:38:29 <TrueBrain> but I found a bug! It wasnt telling about updates to the PR ..
16:39:35 <TrueBrain> my clipboard and Konversation are not good friends .... it works for a day or so .. then it breaks
16:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> never had a problem with that
16:41:20 <frosch123> hmm, looks like i need to read about async and wait, i only know yield
16:41:36 <TrueBrain> await is almost identical to yield
16:41:40 <TrueBrain> except that is wants a coroutine :)
16:42:10 <TrueBrain> (and async makes the function into a coroutine :D)
16:52:08 <frosch123> f-syntax looks scary
16:52:33 <TrueBrain> I am very unsure still what to think of it
16:52:40 <TrueBrain> it is an upgrade from format() for sure
16:52:50 <TrueBrain> it is less typing than %
16:53:00 <TrueBrain> but ... it feels weird
16:53:02 <frosch123> i always use format(), never %
16:53:14 <frosch123> i like the separation of the template string and the parameters
16:53:25 <TrueBrain> I really dislike format() .. it is such a weird way of doing stuff .. and readability is near zero ..
16:53:35 <frosch123> otherwise i always think people can inject stuff
16:53:39 <TrueBrain> yeah, the f"" tried to keep that of format()
16:54:17 <frosch123> anyway, can't say much about the PRs, python still has no switch() :)
16:54:32 <TrueBrain> I am mostly interesting if I didnt do something stupid
16:54:35 <TrueBrain> like commit a password
16:54:41 <TrueBrain> or leave a stupid comment
16:55:48 <frosch123> i did not encounter any passwords
16:55:50 <TrueBrain> in the mean time, a sneak peak
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16:56:10 <TrueBrain> textual all looks as expected?
16:56:58 <TrueBrain> (what does mine say?)
16:57:59 <frosch123> i do not know that quote, if it is one
16:59:07 <frosch123> are 3 dorpsgeks too overwhelming?
16:59:09 <andythenorth> 'make trains' became 'refactor the compile'
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17:00:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: depends on who you ask :D But the last one that left is staging version
17:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (such an incredibly stupid movie)
17:03:48 <frosch123> oh, ... so i actually knew the quote
17:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i literally forgot everything else the movie was about
17:05:00 <frosch123> about transfunctioning the future and blowing pipes
17:05:40 <TrueBrain> such a cool movie :D But especially the sweet/dude part is fantastic :D
17:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> cool and stupid are not mutually exclusive :p
17:06:41 <frosch123> i think it was it when 13, recommended it to my 22 year old sister. she went there with some friends, and they were like: who recommended this movie?
17:07:33 <TrueBrain> okay, issue stuff also up for review
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17:07:49 <TrueBrain> I seriously love the staging/producton CD .. so much easier to work with stuff if you can test it!
17:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> oh man, i haven't looked into my movie archive folder for like 10 years
17:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but looks like that movie is not there
17:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "Das singende, klingende Bäumchen.avi" why the hell would i have that?
17:11:25 <TrueBrain> lets not talk about why things are or are not in your movie collection :P
17:12:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] Push to master by TrueBrain:
17:12:27 <DorpsGek_II> - Add: allow default notifications, and minor fixes to push notification (by TrueBrain)
17:12:27 <DorpsGek_II> - Add: support notifications about pull-request open/reopen/closed/comment (by TrueBrain)
17:12:27 <DorpsGek_II> - Add: support notifications about issues open/closed/comment (by TrueBrain)
17:17:29 <TrueBrain> I am not a freaking dog! :P
17:17:56 <frosch123> dorpsgek is the good boy
17:18:02 <frosch123> tb is the evil wizzzzard
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17:22:28 <TrueBrain> after that commit is merged, things will happily be reported in this channel again .. :D
17:27:21 <TrueBrain> not sure if #openttd.notice is useful still , but lets see how things turn out :)
17:27:30 <TrueBrain> it is easy to add finer filters, so meh :)
17:28:53 <TrueBrain> there is one flow of events I did not consider enough .. if you merge somethig in DorpsGek-github, and shortly after in DorpsGek-irc, the last one gets lost .. as the DorpsGek-github means the CD kicks in, and restarts the production DorpsGek-github, which is keeping track of the status of the CD .. forgetting it should do DorpsGek-irc :D
17:29:04 <TrueBrain> but easy solution .. don't merge them quickly one after the other :P
17:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> human solutions to technical problems, nothing wrong with that :p
17:33:33 <TrueBrain> a solution in policy can be stronger than a solution in software, indeed :D
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17:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i just had a support case where a "don't do A and B quickly after each other" blew up after like 5 years :p
17:46:19 <TrueBrain> if it was never fixed in 5 years .. it needs attention again!
17:46:20 <planetmaker> of course after 5 years the memory has faded about the "don't do"s
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17:47:27 <TrueBrain> okay, if DorpsGek_II joins but doesnt say anything ... that is not what should happen :D
17:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: over those 5 years the tolerance for "quick" seems to have decayed from 3 seconds to 10 seconds
17:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> perhaps he changed his mind?
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17:49:02 <TrueBrain> indeed I completely forgot one case ..
17:49:17 <Alberth> collected enough stuff to crawl through in those 5 years, Eddi? :)
17:51:19 <TrueBrain> but at least the error tollerance of DorpsGek_II is very high .. it only skipped that one thing it didnt understand, but did execute all other tasks :D
17:51:43 <Alberth> unfortunately, you gave it only one task :p
17:52:46 <andythenorth> I pressed 'tab' to try and ffwd my compile :(
17:53:28 <Alberth> nope, it's stuck at max CPU speed :p
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17:56:52 <DorpsGek_II_> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-runner] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master:
17:56:52 <DorpsGek_II_> - Add: notify IRC about pull-requests and issues (by TrueBrain)
17:56:58 *** DorpsGek_II_ is now known as DorpsGek_II
17:57:21 <TrueBrain> thank you DorpsGek_II
17:57:28 <TrueBrain> too bad it is 2 events, the merge and push
17:57:38 <TrueBrain> but, it is working again :D
17:57:44 <LordAro> mm, one or the other would be preferred
17:57:52 <LordAro> not sure i'm a fan of the part/joining as well
17:57:58 <TrueBrain> good thing it is open source with a CD attached! Go for it :D
17:58:10 * andythenorth got bulldozer cargos generating
17:58:12 <TrueBrain> so .. lets lock this channel! NO MORE IN OR OUT!
17:58:15 <andythenorth> 2 days work to automate
17:58:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro doesn't like part/joins, so that is it guys, sorry!
17:58:50 <LordAro> you know what i mean :p
17:59:06 <TrueBrain> it is an assumption you made not based on any facts
17:59:24 <LordAro> the "needless" part/joining whenever it gets a message
17:59:27 <TrueBrain> lucky my brain-melting-abilities worked, so I understood what you meant yes :)
17:59:33 <TrueBrain> there is no "needless" part here
17:59:35 <LordAro> it would be much better for it to just stay in the channel
17:59:44 <TrueBrain> yes, DorpsGek_II left. Yes, DorpsGek_II joined. Just the former DorpsGek_II was not the latter
17:59:52 <TrueBrain> do you still see it in this channel?
18:00:14 <TrueBrain> why do people think I implemented this as idiotic as GitHub did? :P
18:00:35 <TrueBrain> that they made a brainfart in their implementation, doesn't mean I am :P
18:00:54 <LordAro> i just hadn't seen it do more than one message (at different times), i assumed it was doing a GH Thing
18:01:01 <LordAro> i should stop assuming so much
18:01:12 <TrueBrain> questions are always welcome!
18:01:22 <TrueBrain> "Does it leave/join on every commit?!" :P
18:01:45 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek_II is liked to a CD. Every merge in DorpsGek-irc, causes a restart .. meaning he leaves the channel :)
18:01:53 <TrueBrain> he only comes back when he has something to say again
18:01:59 <TrueBrain> (as he doesn't work on a predefined list or something)
18:02:42 <TrueBrain> well, if it is DorpsGek_II with host spam.openttd.org :D If the host is home.truebrain.nl, it is mister staging joining .. who is only here to demonstrate his new powers
18:02:49 <TrueBrain> (and otherwise lives in other channels)
18:03:33 <frosch123> does "gek" imply any gender? and is there an analog term for the opposite?
18:03:34 <TrueBrain> I could name staging mister with super powers differently, I guess :D
18:03:42 <TrueBrain> no, "gek" is gender neutral
18:04:21 <TrueBrain> although, due to historical reasons, a "dorpsgek" is 99% of the time male
18:04:28 <TrueBrain> but that is just because that was the time-spirit :P
18:04:57 <TrueBrain> (the same as jokers that were bouncing next to kings were more often than not males :P)
18:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> collected enough stuff to crawl through in those 5 years, Eddi? :) <-- well, the original input data is kept for tax and customs purposes anyway
18:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem was in the part that parses that data for further accounting tasks
18:08:08 <TrueBrain> for windows we no longer use ICU, right? So we can close all those bugs, not?
18:09:11 <peter1138> The bugs also trigger on Linux.
18:09:22 <TrueBrain> these tickets are specific on windows :P
18:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it is my understanding that dutch mostly lost the distinction between male/female (language)gender over the last 500-ish years
18:10:07 <TrueBrain> the main issue I have, getting the gender of things like ships, cars, etc right
18:10:33 <TrueBrain> put in many other languages I notice ships are often refered to as a "her"
18:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> english does that a lot
18:11:21 <peter1138> English's gendered ships is nothing to do with grammar, though.
18:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the way i see it, ships in general are neutral, but if you refer to a specific ship (one that has a name), it's usually female
18:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> like in german it is "Das Schiff", but "Die Enterprise"
18:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> or "Das Boot" vs. "Die U96"
18:15:26 <snail_UES_> ok, this is weird. I’m trying to compile Karn’s new patch for shunting and reversing
18:15:36 <snail_UES_> if I compile it through GitHub, it throws an error
18:15:56 <snail_UES_> Documents/GitHub/OpenTTD-YPS/src/economy.cpp:702:20: error: expected
18:15:57 <snail_UES_> c->cur_economy = {};
18:15:57 <peter1138> What does "compile it through GitHub" mean?
18:16:16 <snail_UES_> I cloned it from the github website
18:16:44 <snail_UES_> and it generated the error I described above… seems in economy.cpp
18:16:52 <peter1138> That's a bug that was fixed.
18:17:12 <snail_UES_> ah… then I just downloaded the files manually and it compiled fine
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18:44:58 <snail_UES_> btw is michi_cc here?
18:45:32 <snail_UES_> he did work on a patch to allow 90-degree curves for certain railtypes, and I’ve got a crash report that can help him...
19:05:47 <andythenorth> I wish to register a complaint
19:05:56 <andythenorth> the palette does not have 8 nice yellows in a set
19:06:17 <andythenorth> instead it has multiple smaller sets of not-quite-nice yellows
19:06:31 <andythenorth> palette is not bulldozer-optimised
19:06:45 <peter1138> How long ago did we add 32bpp support?
19:07:05 <peter1138> Use your own palette ;)
19:07:42 <andythenorth> you said something I can't process
19:08:21 <planetmaker> Well, the suggestion actually is not so bad, andythenorth:
19:08:46 <planetmaker> make your own palette: make the sprites in 32bpp. But use the colours from the 8bpp palette. And deviate where you feel the need (e.g. for your yellows)
19:09:31 <planetmaker> and I'll bet there's at most 2 people who'll notice ;)
19:12:05 <andythenorth> I could just remap the palette file :P
19:12:42 <andythenorth> there are 16 yellows, just not in blocks of 8 :P
19:13:48 <andythenorth> we decided that engineering supply sprites should be random trucks / tractors / tarpaulins etc?
19:13:57 <andythenorth> no cargo subtype to choose explicitly?
19:14:21 <peter1138> Don't use cargo subtypes.
19:14:36 <andythenorth> I use them for capacity refits in ships
19:15:16 <andythenorth> hmm, we had some idea about vehicle groups
19:15:29 <andythenorth> multiple IDs, nested buy menu entry
19:16:33 <peter1138> planetmaker, UI is not nice, and they're a spanner in the works for autoreplace.
19:17:06 <peter1138> Why do you want capacity refits? Isn't a bigger capacity going to be a bigger ship? We do have 65k IDs available.
19:17:07 <planetmaker> hm, the latter is an argument... couldn't autoreplace just ignore it?
19:17:23 <peter1138> planetmaker, ignoring it causes issues.
19:17:24 <andythenorth> I choose "Engineering Supplies (Traction Engines)"
19:17:30 <andythenorth> then what happens when it's Tractors?
19:17:38 <andythenorth> or Steam Shovels and Bulldozers
19:18:08 <peter1138> andythenorth, implement coupling of 'road' vehicles :p
19:18:50 <andythenorth> is that wise? o_O
19:18:56 <andythenorth> there is an ancient spec somewhere
19:19:26 <andythenorth> what about road vehicles in trains?
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19:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i feel like i'm in a downwards spiral... i was playing cities skylines, added the metro mod, and now i'm seriously considering to use "move it" to force the metro into places...
19:26:13 <andythenorth> have you written your own mod yet?
19:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i was considering modding out the "commercials" from the radio stations
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19:35:04 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: cargo subtypes are there to stay… newGRF’s have to use them so that they can support legacy industries
19:48:09 <snail_UES_> such as ECS or the original ones
19:48:30 <snail_UES_> the original TTD industries have got “goods” that could be whatever
19:49:05 <snail_UES_> from food products to cars… so a vehicle newGRF has to deal with it using subtypes (unless it loads them in boxcars only
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19:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, just generic boxes?
19:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but i wouldn't call that "essiential to support"
19:52:20 <andythenorth> I didn't know we'd proposed removing them :P
19:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause> if anyone would propose removing them, it would be you :p
19:52:45 <andythenorth> they are a repetitive source of 'feature requests that have to be rejected'
19:53:42 <peter1138> I don't understand, industries don't have anything to do with cargo subtypes.
19:54:07 <peter1138> *cargos* don't have anything to do with cargo subtypes, it's a vehicle property.
19:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause> why is it that i have never ever the right type of screwdriver available?
19:56:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: there is probably an XKCD for that
19:57:06 <andythenorth> 'available', or 'to hand'?
19:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difference between those two?
19:58:54 <andythenorth> one involves looking in places
19:59:01 <andythenorth> one is within reach
19:59:14 <andythenorth> 'available' may include phoning a friend :P
20:01:33 <andythenorth> breaks all known rules
20:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> just all my screwdrivers seem to be the wrong size
20:01:54 <snail_UES_> peter1138: cargo subtypes are useful for two purposes… they allow for more variety when transporting generic-labeled cargoes (such as “goods”, “food”, “chemical products”)
20:02:19 <snail_UES_> and they’re useful for engine variants such as regearing or specific liveries
20:02:48 <snail_UES_> the latter need could also be met with “purchase list variants”, but we (still) don’t have them
20:03:04 <andythenorth> the bits are horrible and get chewed up easily
20:03:15 <andythenorth> OTOH they chew the screws less
20:04:19 <andythenorth> I would say 'fixing' but 'disassembling' is more accurate :P
20:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a screwdriver that can hold bits, but a) where do i find bits? and b) it holds the bits magnetically, which is not ideal if handling computers
20:17:04 <peter1138> snail_UES_, you can have that variety without subtypes. Randomisation, or simply different engine IDs.
20:17:42 <snail_UES_> the former doesn’t allow me to choose, I might need to buy countless engines before finding the livery I wanted
20:17:48 <snail_UES_> the latter clutters the purchase list...
20:18:41 <peter1138> You can always hide :-)
20:19:02 <peter1138> I think people are still building sets with the old engine type limits in mind.
20:19:38 <snail_UES_> if we had purchase list variants or something like that, now that would be useful
20:20:13 <peter1138> Yeah, still need to write it.
20:20:52 <snail_UES_> I’ll give you that my set was initially designed around the 116-ID limit
20:21:22 <snail_UES_> but having the purchase list filled with very similar engines, with basically the same name, is not a great result IMO…
20:21:43 <snail_UES_> I’d like to be able to click once on the “engine type”, then click once more to choose the variant
20:21:47 <snail_UES_> or something like that
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20:27:05 <madmax28> I noticed my flow chart links never go beyond saturated
20:27:27 <madmax28> I'm trying to figure out if this might be a bug..
20:27:38 <madmax28> Where do I find the bits of the code that update those?
20:29:37 <madmax28> nvm i think i found it :)
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20:50:53 <nielsm> I kind of hope someone else can take this and run with it because I'm not feeling much for hacking on nml
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22:11:29 <andythenorth> nielsm: I can fork and make a test grf tomorrow
22:23:52 <nielsm> andythenorth: I don't know if it actually works :)
22:25:13 <andythenorth> we'll find out :D
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22:44:25 <michi_cc> snail_UES_: I've seen your PM, just been busy with other things so far.
22:44:42 <snail_UES_> michi_cc: thanks :)
22:46:27 <snail_UES_> thank you! will do
22:46:55 <michi_cc> Unfortunately, it might not work as I'm lacking some of the essential NewGRFs of your crash save (fr set and the newstations version used).
22:49:04 <snail_UES_> ok, I’ll try a more basic game next time and send you the newgrfs I use
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23:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> I think people are still building sets with the old engine type limits in mind. <-- well, last time i fired up CETS i missed a filter feature in the purchase list...
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continue to next day ⏵
