IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-07-15
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08:57:53 <andythenorth> I'm still splitting out the town cargos
08:58:13 <andythenorth> ideas welcome, I'd rather load it up with too much stuff, then delete some
09:00:56 <Alberth> Warf looks a little lonely :)
09:01:28 <andythenorth> town industries particularly welcome
09:01:33 <andythenorth> it's a random set of cargos :P
09:01:48 <andythenorth> considering: restaurant, supermarket, department store
09:02:07 <andythenorth> cargos yet to add: furniture, edible oil, some split of goods
09:02:31 <Alberth> Stockyard would need some livestock areas?
09:05:23 <andythenorth> yes, I want to redraw it
09:05:31 <andythenorth> it's one monolothic sprite currently
09:05:36 <andythenorth> been on my list for ages :)
09:06:11 <Alberth> bakery seems off-scale wrt to its input, if a bakery is a shop in the city
09:06:34 <andythenorth> the town industries are all just clones of shop currently
09:06:38 <Alberth> could have industrial bakery, and ship food, I guess
09:06:46 <andythenorth> I wondered if food needs to stay
09:06:51 <andythenorth> hotel is weird now
09:07:02 <andythenorth> but not enough inputs for all the types
09:07:14 <Alberth> could have a cake-shop
09:07:27 <andythenorth> fruit + sugar + flour
09:07:32 <andythenorth> or dairy + sugar + flour
09:08:02 <andythenorth> also, I suppose if I add illegal drugs, my kids can't play it :P
09:08:04 <Alberth> (the current bakery), and add bread or so with industrial bakery, although it would make cookies too
09:08:42 <Alberth> sounds like a fun cargo :p
09:08:54 <andythenorth> I wondered about butchers being deli
09:09:00 <andythenorth> dunno how that works
09:09:09 <andythenorth> this is approximately austria-germany-poland
09:09:39 <Alberth> butcher would be fine imho
09:10:15 <andythenorth> potatoes + edible oil -> chip shop?
09:10:47 <Alberth> dairy products might include meat though, maybe that's what you meant?
09:11:06 <andythenorth> Alberth: I was thinking have butchers accept dairy
09:11:18 <andythenorth> in UK now butchers sell cheese often
09:11:23 <Wolf01> Mmmmh... alchemy chain
09:11:40 <Alberth> here they might accept livestock
09:11:42 <andythenorth> salt could go to food processing plants also
09:12:08 <andythenorth> I don't think butchers recieve trainloads of salt, so I'll probly ignore that
09:12:14 <Alberth> cows mostly I think, since I live in cow country :p
09:12:17 <Wolf01> Monkey + tool = monkey wrench
09:12:29 <andythenorth> imported pepper and stuff
09:13:06 <Alberth> spice seems big enough in variety
09:13:54 <Wolf01> Good choice with the grocer's shop
09:14:01 <andythenorth> it's quite extreme
09:14:04 <andythenorth> because on smaller maps
09:14:10 <andythenorth> the game struggles to build the industries :P
09:14:52 <andythenorth> on 256x512 it's building ~1 of each
09:14:55 <andythenorth> so potentially have to transport across whole map between each
09:15:37 <Wolf01> It would be cool if the industries can be somewhat in order, so I can start from one end
09:16:23 <Wolf01> Maybe even distinct chains in different parts of the map
09:16:33 <andythenorth> that could be done
09:16:39 <andythenorth> better with GS, but not current GS
09:16:56 <andythenorth> so I only have about 50% of the new town industries
09:17:01 <andythenorth> but they're not getting well placed
09:17:43 <andythenorth> most towns lack most of the shops
09:17:53 <andythenorth> so it's not so much 'city chaos' as 'this town accepts nothing'
09:18:01 <Wolf01> Put a weight for the quantity of industries? Could be useful to have a lot of tertiary industries and fewer primary/secondary
09:18:37 <andythenorth> I can control probability
09:18:51 <andythenorth> but it's relatively limited, and easy to get unintended consequences
09:18:54 <Wolf01> The "number of industries" setting need to be tuned better considering the type of industries and map area
09:19:16 <andythenorth> what's long needed is some better control over creation
09:19:23 <andythenorth> placement can be absolutely controlled
09:19:30 <andythenorth> but not the choice of where to try placing :P
09:19:39 <Wolf01> Or make scenarios, I would like to make a scenario with firs when firs will be finished
09:20:07 <Alberth> no electronic devices?
09:20:38 <Wolf01> Could a scenario contain a GS? It would be a good thing to have a scenario with specific goals
09:20:39 <Alberth> refridgerators, freezers, and tvs?
09:21:02 <andythenorth> household appliances
09:21:10 <andythenorth> steel + plastic + copper
09:21:13 <Alberth> Wolf01: Likely it can, the tutorial has something like that
09:21:54 <andythenorth> my main challenge here is balancing the heavy industry cargos and the town cargos eh
09:22:23 <Alberth> yeah, new version seems to me more 'heavy'
09:22:48 <andythenorth> I could take some detail out of the chemicals chain
09:22:51 <andythenorth> but I like it :P
09:23:15 <andythenorth> v3 extreme, everything is over-connected
09:23:37 <Alberth> wouldn't that be more simple?
09:24:06 <andythenorth> it's simpler in some ways, more chance of a supplier + accepter being nearby
09:24:06 <Alberth> less connections would be more difficult, I think
09:24:16 <andythenorth> but cargos are over-demanded, so that's frustrating
09:24:52 <Alberth> clearly a bakery could produce a 3,000 tonnes of bread / month :p
09:25:06 <andythenorth> bread is quite light though eh
09:25:34 <andythenorth> so goods needs unpicked
09:25:35 <Alberth> I believe 3,000 bread / month
09:25:52 <andythenorth> household chemicals, household appliances
09:26:17 <andythenorth> that puts it at 45 cargos total so far
09:26:39 <andythenorth> I am aiming for 48 :)
09:27:01 <andythenorth> then building materials needs unpicked maybe
09:27:09 <andythenorth> might be fine as a composite
09:27:20 <andythenorth> other than 'builders yard' where can building materials go?
09:27:28 <andythenorth> 'construction site' doesn't work
09:27:39 <andythenorth> hardware store, already in :)
09:28:20 <andythenorth> I think cement can be dropped back into building materials
09:28:21 <Alberth> construction site as house?
09:28:51 <Alberth> would be nice if you can limit its life time then
09:29:58 <andythenorth> there's no automobile chain here currently
09:30:04 <andythenorth> it's been requested multiple times
09:30:11 <andythenorth> but I don't want it here, so eh :P
09:30:11 <Wolf01> Add more cargos accepted by buildings without making them industries?
09:30:19 <andythenorth> Wolf01: considering it
09:30:33 <andythenorth> but then I have to make a house set separately
09:30:42 <andythenorth> and there's no way to enforce loading it
09:31:27 <Wolf01> If you load it you make use of it, if you don't nothing changes
09:31:48 <Wolf01> And if you load it without firs you can use it with other available cargos
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09:32:36 <Wolf01> Maybe on firs you can detect if it's loaded and enable/disable specific town industries
09:33:56 <andythenorth> can we fund individual houses yet?
09:34:01 <Alberth> I agree automobile chain would not fit here
09:34:56 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> can we fund individual houses yet? <- no, and it would be like a gread addition
09:37:12 <andythenorth> so do we package milk in aluminium cans?
09:37:20 <andythenorth> something is not right with packaging
09:39:17 <andythenorth> I wonder if packaging is interesting at all
09:40:13 <Wolf01> Ha, acs121 throwing knowledge all around :P
09:41:07 <andythenorth> one of the several reasons I quit forums
09:41:37 <Wolf01> Did you delete all your posts?
09:41:47 <andythenorth> Michael sniped one time too many
09:41:56 <andythenorth> I can't be arsed
09:42:21 <andythenorth> I do think forums are pretty toxic now
09:42:41 <andythenorth> I should stop donating eh
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09:47:07 <andythenorth> anyone want to do the FIRS release announcements? o_O
09:47:21 <andythenorth> it's just a copy-paste from changelog to forum :P
09:47:33 <Wolf01> Ha... nope, YOU do it :P
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09:47:57 <Wolf01> Limit yourself to only make release announcements and don't reply
09:47:58 <andythenorth> maybe new openttd.org will handle it
09:52:58 <Wolf01> MMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmhh NRT with 2 tram types in a single tile
09:55:47 <Alberth> may end badly though :p
09:55:51 <andythenorth> 'essential luxuries'
09:55:59 <andythenorth> also we don't have 'nightsoil' cargo :P
09:56:53 <Alberth> no waste cargo? has been requested as well :)
09:57:48 <andythenorth> didn't work at the time
09:57:51 <andythenorth> could restore it
09:58:11 <Alberth> likely it doesn't work indeed, not much you can do with it
09:58:34 <Alberth> mostly sorting it, and then dispatch to various recycle things
09:58:34 <andythenorth> waste -> furnace
09:58:48 <andythenorth> recyclables is there already, I replaced waste with it
09:59:05 <Alberth> so you covered it mostly already
10:00:25 <Wolf01> Make waste pits, with a stockpile and don't use it, so when full you need to find another industry :P
10:00:47 <andythenorth> this is close to needing a play test
10:00:59 <andythenorth> can't decide how long chains should be
10:01:36 <andythenorth> Steeltown is quite brutal, 6 steps to get final cargo out of chain
10:01:53 <andythenorth> and every step is about 75% efficient at best
10:02:08 <andythenorth> so the amount of raw input required is huge
10:02:21 <andythenorth> I don't want that here :P
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10:06:04 <Wolf01> I was reading the shunting topic, I think there is one big thing missing: consists
10:09:22 <stefino> hello all. Is "game tick" constantly long or not? I read that it takes +- 30ms but in case of sound events it looks that it isn't constant. If I have 16tick long sound event (stop vehicle), 16*0,030=0,48s - it would give constant sound track - theoretical. In game it isn't constant.
10:10:00 <nielsm> yes the 30 ms is at "ideal standard speed"
10:10:10 <nielsm> a tick is not a real-time thing but a simulation thing
10:10:31 <nielsm> if the computer is slow ticks can take longer than 30 ms to process and so the game will run slower than real time
10:10:38 <stefino> okay but it has tobe constantly long
10:10:54 <nielsm> there isn't any good way to synchronize a long-running sound to on-screen actions
10:11:23 <nielsm> (also what if the player pauses the game right as the sound has started playing? it keeps playing while nothing is being simulated)
10:12:27 <stefino> no, I don't need to synchonize sound with graphics. I need to make perfect sound loop. First loop ends, second starts.
10:13:07 <nielsm> yeah that's not possible at all
10:14:26 <nielsm> additionally, if the player turns on fast-forward mode you can get ticks taking as little as 2 or 1 ms
10:15:17 <nielsm> the sound mixer would need a way to mark a sound as looping so the sound subsystem itself could handle it, but then you run into issues with how to stop it, and the limited number of channels
10:15:41 <stefino> it is funny that there is a possibility to make stopped or running sound events but it is unreal to do it :D
10:16:26 <stefino> ...to doa perfect sound loop
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10:34:13 <andythenorth> SPUD or TATO for the label?
10:34:16 <andythenorth> I ruled out CHIP
10:41:57 <andythenorth> POTA is potash already
10:59:09 <andythenorth> it's less and less connected
10:59:12 <andythenorth> which might be fine
10:59:40 <nielsm> metal workshop/metal fabrication plant -> industrial waste -> recycling depot
11:01:03 <nielsm> hm no make that machine shop -> small output of scrap metal
11:03:28 <nielsm> recycling plant -> scrap plastic -> plastics plant ?
11:05:39 <nielsm> also imo the plastics plant should make raw plastic which can then be processed further at other specialized industries
11:09:39 <andythenorth> now I've dropped packaging
11:09:58 <andythenorth> I could restore packaging and have a packaging factory also
11:10:19 <andythenorth> more ideas welcome, most won't fly but eh
11:13:51 <nielsm> is there a way for an industry to check if another industry of some type is nearby and so if it has a certain level of production/input?
11:14:14 <nielsm> could maybe be interesting if keeping a power plant supplied allowed manufacturing nearby to benefit
11:16:08 <andythenorth> it can check for existence
11:16:09 <nielsm> also can an industry check the size of its associated town (or how much population is within some radius of it)? because recycling depot should really have output depending on the population it supports
11:16:24 <andythenorth> recycling depot does exactly that ;)
11:17:05 <andythenorth> there was a spec for town registers for a while
11:17:07 <nielsm> the documentation should probably say so somewhere
11:17:09 <andythenorth> not sure if it was implemented
11:17:19 <andythenorth> but electricity is best handled by writing to a town register
11:17:23 <andythenorth> power supply 0-16
11:17:30 <andythenorth> then let industry read that
11:20:20 <andythenorth> without packaging, the aggriculture chains are very one dimensionals
11:21:16 <nielsm> aluminium + fruit -> cannery
11:21:48 <andythenorth> something like that
11:24:24 <TrueBrain> omg, a spammer on github ... did not expect that! :P
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11:49:24 <andythenorth_> nielsm so fruit + cans = ???? :)
11:49:42 <andythenorth_> food is not in this economy
11:50:53 <nielsm> canned food compared to certain other kinds of food can be transported for longer without losing value...
11:51:32 <andythenorth_> where do sausages fit in this picture? :p
11:51:50 <nielsm> and then you have surströmming which must be transported for at least 6 months before it has value to deliver!!
11:52:08 <andythenorth_> is that rotten fish?
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11:52:31 <andythenorth_> Yeah, I might put the fish back in
11:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that is how they make it, they put it on trucks and drive it around for 6 months
11:52:42 <nielsm> recommended you open the can submerged in a bucket of water, in the middle of a forest, wearing a rebreather
11:53:03 <andythenorth_> I’ve seen the YT videos
11:54:21 <andythenorth_> sun-dried tomatos?
11:54:33 <nielsm> well there is the norwegian "linje akvavit", a spirit whose selling point is that the barrels have matured on board a seagoing ship
11:54:58 <andythenorth_> is it weird to not have baked goods?
11:55:09 <andythenorth_> instead bakery is black hole
11:55:39 <Wolf01> If you put bakeries in cities then fine
11:55:42 <andythenorth_> also there are no non-alcoholic drinks
11:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> water+sugar=soda
11:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (+some really minor additives so they can call it "orange")
11:57:19 <andythenorth_> chlorine + soda ash -> waterworks
11:57:37 <andythenorth_> industrial gases?
11:58:00 <andythenorth_> sewage -> waterworks
11:58:13 <andythenorth_> pollution is original sim city
11:58:23 <andythenorth_> or was that brownouts?
11:59:10 <andythenorth_> not sure any of this works, industries in town don’t work great :D
11:59:31 <andythenorth_> and nobody needs 1k tonnes of yoghurt per month
11:59:36 <nielsm> paper mill -> paper packaging, paper packaging goes to dairy
12:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure the version of sim city i played had pollution
12:00:35 <andythenorth_> can I abuse tile acceptance?
12:00:39 <nielsm> I think simcity has always had a more or less abstract simulation of pollution
12:00:56 <andythenorth_> to get 12 cargos into 4x4 supermarket?
12:01:09 <andythenorth_> or does that not work right?
12:01:17 <nielsm> even in the original simcity residential was bad too close to industry
12:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you'll have trouble putting that large of an industry in a town
12:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the acceptance will work, but the industry graph will not be correct
12:02:54 <nielsm> glass works -> bottles -> distillery, dairy, cannery
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12:03:17 <andythenorth_> so 48 cargos or 64? o_O
12:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> what if it ends up as 53?
12:03:50 <andythenorth_> I think it’s unwise :p
12:03:58 <andythenorth_> eddi my bet is 56
12:04:25 <andythenorth_> FIRS Unplayable
12:05:13 <andythenorth_> so detergent, or household chemicals?
12:05:50 <andythenorth_> also, medicines, as low weight, high value?
12:06:38 <andythenorth_> glue? from stockyard?
12:07:14 <nielsm> household chemicals is better imo
12:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> is that actually how that is produced, or just a meme you tell children when they ask where horses go?
12:07:33 <nielsm> modern glue is mostly synthetic
12:07:45 <andythenorth_> glue is/was often rendered from gelatine
12:08:20 <andythenorth_> hah hah I can do something here for toyland fans :)
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12:08:46 <Wolf01> With water slides when near of the coasts
12:08:53 <andythen_> big chunk of toyland
12:09:11 <andythen_> cola, batteries, plastic, toys, sugar
12:09:36 <nielsm> but without the battery farms and sugar mines
12:10:51 <Wolf01> *Industry graph explodes*
12:11:17 <andythen_> tesla are building battery farms, no?
12:11:44 <nielsm> I don't think the batteries literally grow from the ground :)
12:11:51 <andythen_> are batteries a good cargo?
12:12:01 <Wolf01> But you can make salt and lithium farms
12:12:33 <andythen_> salt is already in....
12:13:06 <andythen_> electronics factory
12:14:06 <andythen_> but the big question
12:14:15 <andythen_> tractor plant, or not?
12:14:28 <andythen_> try saying it in Russian accent also
12:14:49 <Wolf01> In mother russia the tractors make you
12:15:09 <andythen_> but only accepts steel
12:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in the 1930s, germany sent "tractor parts" into the soviet union
12:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> when assembled, those became tanks, that were used to train the german army without technically violating the versailles treaty
12:16:35 <andythen_> FIRS used to have ‘parts’
12:16:53 <andythen_> maybe it’s time to restore it :p
12:17:40 <andythen_> but I need conponents now for traktors
12:17:54 <Alberth> every citizen a tractor?
12:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so "machine parts"
12:18:16 <andythen_> there isn’t room to produce them in detail
12:19:01 <Wolf01> With 62 types of parts (other cargos are chemicals and plastic)
12:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's almost as bad as the minecraft economy :p
12:20:07 <Wolf01> Skeleton spawner -> arrows, bones -> bone meal -> crops
12:20:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
12:21:11 <Wolf01> Tokens to build and run things, like mashinky
12:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> do they correspond with the food you can harvest with them?
12:21:14 <andythen_> fmsp from fishing harbour (bone meal)
12:23:52 <andythen_> cows need red tractors eddi
12:24:17 <andythen_> the farms are colour coded already :)
12:25:48 <Wolf01> I always thought that tractors were coloured by brand
12:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the red tractor is obviously the fastest
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12:38:34 <andythenorth_> hmm I am at Tesco
12:38:46 <andythenorth_> we need 2048 cargos
12:39:04 <Wolf01> Oh, looking for inspiration?
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12:51:29 <andythenorth_> about 25% of shop is canned or bottled
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13:11:41 <nielsm> I'd argue jam falls under "cannery" goods
13:13:08 <nielsm> prepare fruit/vegetables, do some kind of cooking/heat treatment, put into sealed vessels ready for retail
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13:47:23 <TrueBrain> closing tickets like there is no tomorrow!
13:47:29 <TrueBrain> 2 tickets about BaNaNaS in 1 day \o/ :D
13:49:18 <planetmaker> <3 your closing reply, TB :)
13:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i made this crazy complicated contraption in spacechem, but i need to exactly flip it, to use the other input :/
13:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i think i don't need to do that after all
14:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> now, i got laser and rocket fuel working, just the steering left
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15:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, i need to get the ratios better... per 2 rocket explosives i need 15 rocket fuel. per 2 rocket explosives i get 4 rocket fuel as byproduct. per 1 laser charge i get 9 rocket explosives (and thus 18 rocket fuel) as byproduct, plus another 6 rocket fuel
15:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> thus i get a surplus of rocket explosives, and my storage runs full halfway through
15:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i need 2:15 but i have 9:24
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15:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't put another storage anywhere
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15:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i need to use the laser as waste disposal for the surplus explosives
15:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which means i need another reactor, which i can't have
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15:17:14 <andythenorth> rocket fuel in FIRS Extreme
15:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> now i don't think i get enough reactor outputs :/
15:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to completely trash this attempt :/
15:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and i thought i was so close :/
15:40:58 <Wolf01> I found it difficult even to finish the tutorial
15:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> this is the last level :/
15:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the tutorial was fine
15:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i first ran into trouble by the time they introduced fusion
15:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and then polymers
15:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it went into "completely insane" mode :p
15:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and then it introduces a new control node that you facepalm as "well, i could have used that _last_ level"
16:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm now at 6 rocket explosives per 1 laser charge
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16:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> now i need a reaction that collects surplus elements, until a laser charge is available to dispose of them
16:49:51 <SpComb> almost sounds as if you were talking about factorio, but no
16:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine factorio, but you are limited to an 8x10 map
16:53:33 <Wolf01> Now I understand why I only played the tutorial last time :P
16:56:21 <andythenorth> why coffee in FIRS, but not tea?
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17:15:20 <andythenorth> another way to think about this, which town cargos would look good?
17:15:57 <andythenorth> currently food is piece, refrigerated, and goes in box trucks or fridge trucks
17:16:16 <andythenorth> now there are 6 cargos that go in box trucks or fridge trucks
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18:32:50 <Alkel_U3> Hello. What the heck happened 2:09 GMT today?
18:40:09 <peter1138> I don't know, what the heck did happen at 2:09 GMT today?
18:44:29 <andythenorth> I think it got missed
18:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even know when 2:09GMT was
18:56:25 <LordAro> pretty sure nothing happened at 0209GMT today
18:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess that is usually a time where nothing happens anyway
19:20:12 <snail_UES_> guys, I’m getting a strange bug if I try to start a game with both my trainset and Uwe’s German Road Vehicles set
19:20:24 <snail_UES_> I’m getting an error message such as: “Fatal error : requested GRF ressource not available (sprite 498)”
19:20:52 <snail_UES_> and one of our sets (the one towards the bottom of the newGRF list) gets deactivated
19:21:28 <snail_UES_> I tried running OTTD in debug mode, and I got the following error messages:
19:21:50 <snail_UES_> “ dbg: [grf] [germanrvw.grf:53] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 1792 sprites; try changing NewGRF order “ <— if I put my trainset first
19:22:09 <snail_UES_> “ dbg: [grf] [fsetw_j.grf:498] ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 8704 sprites; try changing NewGRF order “ <— if I put Uwe’s road vehicle set first
19:22:28 <snail_UES_> I think it’s because we’re both allocating a very large number of recoloring sprites...
19:23:25 <snail_UES_> any ideas on how to fix this? (I mean any idea other than the old “you don’t need all those sprites” story)
19:24:04 <FLHerne> `if (_cur.spriteid + count >= 16384) {` it says
19:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: germanrv set reserves a crazy number of sprites for recolouring, i think
19:24:32 <snail_UES_> Eddi|zuHause: yes, and so does mine
19:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> seems like you hit some kind of limit?
19:24:53 <snail_UES_> but neither of us (and not even the sum) reaches 16,384
19:24:59 <Alberth> Line above says: "Check if the allocated sprites will fit below the original sprite limit "
19:25:44 <frosch123> the baseset sprites also count towards the limit
19:25:55 <frosch123> anyway, 16k recolour sprites is silly
19:26:09 <frosch123> better use multiple stacked sprites with different recolouring
19:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> limitation disturbs me very sprites...
19:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose stacked sprites were not available when snail_UES_ started :p
19:28:17 <snail_UES_> eddi|zuHause: exactly
19:29:06 <snail_UES_> stacked sprites help a lot, but they came into the play fairly recently and I’d have to reprogram large parts of my set to fully use them...
19:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> should have used a code generator :p
19:30:28 <snail_UES_> it’s not that easy
19:30:41 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the code generator is named "snail" :)
19:30:46 <andythenorth> disable if german RV set is found?
19:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no need for that, the error disables it automatically :p
19:31:21 <frosch123> "can't use imperial german vehicles with imperial french trains"?
19:32:40 <andythenorth> is it potatos or potatoes?
19:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i get the impression that potatoes won
19:33:17 <andythenorth> I have a typo then
19:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> don't take my word for it, though
19:34:21 <andythenorth> and is it a greengrocers or a greengrocer's?
19:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen anyone use tht word
19:45:00 <peter1138> They barely exist these days :(
19:45:04 <peter1138> Supermarkets killed 'em
19:45:24 <snail_UES_> there still are farmers’ markets though
19:46:15 <snail_UES_> OMG andythenorth, are you adding new cargoes again? :O
19:48:00 <frosch123> more cargo recolourings?
19:48:44 <snail_UES_> \well at least I’m using stacked sprites for those :p
19:48:54 <snail_UES_> more coding work to support them all...
19:51:42 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: someone increased the cargo limit to 64 :P
19:52:06 <snail_UES_> so it’s ok to increase cargo limit...
19:52:14 <snail_UES_> but it’s not ok to increase the railtypes limit :D
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20:08:42 <Wolf01> Exactly, the boss here is andythenorth
20:10:56 <snail_UES_> I actually feel this is far from a constructive behavior...
20:11:06 <snail_UES_> IMO that’s why people end up playing with patchpacks
20:12:50 <Wolf01> That's even encouraged
20:15:18 <snail_UES_> yes… that’s why I’m going to recommend JGR’s patchpack to play with my set :p
20:16:06 <Wolf01> Fine, supermop recommends NRT to play with trolleybi :P
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20:29:12 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: who says it's not ok to increase the railtype limit? o_O
20:30:22 <andythenorth> nobody's approved it mind
20:31:34 <snail_UES_> ok… so what can we do to make this happen?
20:32:16 <andythenorth> my strategy is usually just hope
20:32:19 <andythenorth> and provide humour
20:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure anybody is helped with british humour
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20:39:09 <peter1138> Clearly no other dev wants it :p
20:40:50 <snail_UES_> looks like there’s little interest in helping newgrf authors :p
20:47:01 <andythenorth> one day someone will get bored and commit it
20:47:20 <andythenorth> and then we'll have a debate about why it was so much fuss
20:53:36 <andythenorth> maybe nielsm will review it? :)
20:54:40 <snail_UES_> heh, that would be great...
20:55:37 <andythenorth> any requests? o_O
20:55:45 <andythenorth> this is first draft, incomplete
20:55:54 <andythenorth> aim is 'city chaos'
20:56:17 <andythenorth> it seems to be Germany-Poland currently
20:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the typical request of a vehicle set developer is "ZOMG LEAVE IT ALONE ALREADY!!!!" :p
20:56:18 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: the final list of all cargoes and their classes would help a lot :)
20:56:31 <andythenorth> snail_UES_: funny, but come back in 12 months ;)
20:56:46 <snail_UES_> I’m all for supporting it, but it needs to be final...
20:56:53 <andythenorth> any french cargos you can suggest?
20:56:59 <andythenorth> I already added fromage
20:57:01 <snail_UES_> I wouldn’t like to spend time coding cargoes that later disappear
20:57:17 <snail_UES_> yes, cheese can be a subset of dairy products I guess
20:57:39 <snail_UES_> fruit should go to a distillery as well I think…?
20:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> snail_UES_: giant rolls of cheese on a stake wagon? :p
20:57:53 <andythenorth> I considered tobacco
20:58:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i give tobacco another decade or so and it's banned...
20:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's clearly coming
20:59:12 <andythenorth> I think it will just get hard to buy
20:59:21 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: tractors in steeltown, right?
20:59:35 <andythenorth> trucks in steeltown
20:59:52 <snail_UES_> for ECS, I coded “vehicles” as many subtypes, distinguishing 4 different carmakers :p
21:00:16 <snail_UES_> but I won’t be able to use it in FIRS, since vehicles are only trucks or tractors...
21:02:31 <nielsm> andythenorth nah I don't feel confident about anything relating to the map array at all, haven't touched any of those parts of the code yet
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21:07:39 <snail_UES_> nielsm: but it works in JGR patch.. is this a different implementation?
21:08:53 <nielsm> if I've ever used JGRs patch it would be like 5-7 years ago
21:09:05 <nielsm> don't know if it even existed then
21:09:20 <peter1138> Oh, yes, that's a different implementation.
21:09:43 <peter1138> (One that we rejected, though I had (separately) already done it that way)
21:12:05 <LordAro> what was different about it? why was it rejected?
21:13:17 <peter1138> It's the one that splits the field up.
21:14:27 <andythenorth> oh the untidy bits version?
21:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure how, but i finally managed to finish this crazy game...
21:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, two white blocks back to you, sir.
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