IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-07-13
⏴ go to previous day
01:22:42 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
01:46:57 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
01:46:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
02:10:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:23:56 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
02:23:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
03:58:05 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
03:58:51 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd
04:13:02 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd
04:17:08 *** muffindrake1 has left #openttd
04:21:22 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
04:43:56 *** Guest1010 has joined #openttd
05:18:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
05:31:22 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
05:31:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
06:17:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
06:37:11 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
06:37:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
06:44:47 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
06:59:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
07:23:04 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
07:24:20 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
07:24:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
07:28:31 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
08:14:56 *** Extrems has joined #openttd
08:16:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
11:31:12 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
12:46:22 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
13:25:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
13:36:56 <Borg> howdy.. any schedule for 1.8.1 ?
13:37:42 <andythenorth> there's never a schedule Borg :)
13:37:59 <andythenorth> there's a general aim for a release around April 1 each year ;)
13:38:21 <LordAro> got to work out how to do releases again first
13:38:21 <andythenorth> currently we can't build binaries, because a new compile farm is being engineered
13:40:38 <andythenorth> on the upside, there are a *lot* of features and fixes since 1.8.0
13:45:17 <Borg> yeah.. I saw targets.. like C++14 or C++17... :(
14:05:01 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
14:20:55 <andythenorth> unusual lack of snark from el reg
14:21:01 <andythenorth> "From us here at The Register: good luck, Guido. We know that plenty of our readers enjoy and profit from your work. Thanks for your labours and a language that’s made a big difference. "
14:58:10 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
15:08:55 *** swedneck[m] has joined #openttd
15:24:28 *** synchris has joined #openttd
15:25:23 <FLHerne> Eh, they're always much nicer about individuals than faceless megaprojects
15:25:36 * FLHerne hopes they repeal PEP 572 now :-/
15:25:46 <FLHerne> It really is horrible
15:26:31 <FLHerne> I remember when I first started with Python being quite frustrated that I couldn't do assignments in the middle of things
15:27:32 <FLHerne> But there's almost always a better alternative
15:45:28 <LordAro> it needs rust's approach - everything is an expression that can be assigned - or nothing at all, imo
15:45:40 <LordAro> the usecases for it otherwise are vanishingly small
15:47:55 <peter1138> Ooops, my salt-state package install also installed recommended packages... 280MB later... ;(
15:48:08 <peter1138> Pretty sure I don't need java and X libraries on there.
16:45:22 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
16:45:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
16:54:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:32:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:36:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:59:53 <andythenorth> I can't even draw the chains :P
18:18:11 <Alberth> just draw a fully connected graph :)
18:18:47 <Alberth> 'close approximation' :)
18:19:41 <andythenorth> I think I need to fix on specific sub-chains
18:19:51 <andythenorth> like the ECS vectors, only all in one grf
18:20:50 <andythenorth> I am expanding the chemicals chain
18:20:56 <andythenorth> but it makes my head hurt tbh
18:21:09 <andythenorth> it varies a lot by era and geography
18:21:45 <andythenorth> some processes use chemical 1 as a feedstock to produce chemical 2
18:21:56 <andythenorth> and others seem to use chemical 2 as the feedstock for chemical 1
18:22:19 <andythenorth> sulphur, salt and chlorine are very interconnected :P
18:23:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Do we really need this many cargoes? :-/
18:23:45 <FLHerne> I mean, I thought I was one for overcomplicating things
18:23:52 <andythenorth> but where's the harm? o_O
18:24:19 <andythenorth> at this point it's a game of whether I can make it good with 48 cargos
18:24:21 <FLHerne> But normal FIRS is already about as many as I can sanely do anything with
18:24:40 <andythenorth> but sometimes we have to go to 11
18:24:53 <andythenorth> if I fail, there's always FIRS 3
18:25:07 <andythenorth> if MOAR was obviously better I might not bother :)
18:25:25 <andythenorth> probability is that MOAR is worse
18:25:38 *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:25:55 <andythenorth> but why climb Everest instead of Snowdon?
18:26:23 <FLHerne> Should I bend my frame to 130mm OLD, or respace this hub to 126mm and put up with having >10mm offset?
18:26:56 <andythenorth> have you got frame-bending tools?
18:27:07 <FLHerne> I have some bits of wood and string
18:27:28 <andythenorth> the offset is already bothering you :)
18:27:32 <andythenorth> so you have to bend
18:27:36 <andythenorth> but if you break it....
18:28:37 <FLHerne> Eh, it's fairly heavily-built for a road frame, it'll probably be fine :P
18:29:33 <FLHerne> I guess I could just spring it, like I did with the old one
18:29:43 <FLHerne> But that was a nuisance
18:31:47 <FLHerne> You think 10mm would be too much offset?
18:31:58 * FLHerne doesn't have much experience fiddling with wheels
18:34:03 <andythenorth> ammonia should come from primary industry eh
18:34:12 <andythenorth> haber-bosch thing
18:51:17 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
18:59:46 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
19:06:40 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
19:09:29 <andythenorth> ammonia, soda ash -> detergent factory -> goods(?)
19:09:38 <andythenorth> I could add a lot of town cargos
19:18:31 <FLHerne> You could add a distinction between wholesale goods and local-delivery, with warehouses and distribution centres :P
19:19:29 <FLHerne> Supermarkets accept wholesale goods, obviously
19:21:47 <nielsm> can some of the destinations perhaps be regular town buildings? can they be made to accept any goods or are they limited to just passengers/mail/food/goods?
19:22:43 <nielsm> (I guess food and goods is still enough, for edible and non-edible consumables palleted for smaller scale retail)
19:37:06 <andythenorth> what cargo label for ammonia?
19:39:26 <nielsm> teach the players chemistry :)
19:39:44 <Wolf01> Project 5: sightseer does exactly that
19:39:48 <andythenorth> it's NH4 in industrial form
19:39:54 <andythenorth> cargo labels are 4 letters
19:40:05 <nielsm> NH3 is ammonia, NH4 is ammonium
19:40:14 <andythenorth> I am misreading, again
19:45:58 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:49:00 <andythenorth> is amonnia unit volume, or weight?
19:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, this "space chem" game is insane...
19:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or it's making me insane...
19:54:16 <nielsm> wikipedia says "30% of agricultural nitrogen applied in the USA is in the form of anhydrous ammonia and worldwide 110 million tonnes are applied each year."
19:54:21 <Wolf01> Ahahah I was tempted to run it too
20:26:24 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd
20:27:00 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
20:28:46 <andythenorth> where does salt come from then? o_O
20:30:03 <Alberth> just pump water into the mine, it returns with salt
20:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with "the steam cloud"?
20:34:55 <Eddi|zuHause> at my place, these kind of mountains are made from copper mining byproducts
21:12:51 *** techmagus has joined #openttd
21:13:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: brine sounds most interesting of the options
21:13:24 <frosch123> it's liquid at least
21:15:29 <andythenorth> yeah I figured the same
21:15:39 <andythenorth> currently I have salt as by product of potash mine
21:15:45 <andythenorth> like Eddi's Monte Kali
21:15:50 <andythenorth> but it seems dull
21:18:36 <nielsm> what if a newgrf industry could dictate that it always gets built together with another industry?
21:19:26 <frosch123> they can check for existing industries nearby
21:19:51 <frosch123> andy knows better whether that worked good, or deadlocked too often
21:20:10 <andythenorth> I have done it in one case
21:20:15 <andythenorth> it's not super reliably
21:20:29 <andythenorth> it would be quite easy to deadlock imho
21:20:33 <nielsm> but then you have to hope that the game wants to build both
21:20:44 <andythenorth> the risk isn't so much deadlocking TTD
21:20:52 <nielsm> and hits the right spot in the random location trials
21:20:52 <andythenorth> it's getting a pathologically stupid map :)
21:21:50 <nielsm> my idea is pretty much having a kind of interlocked industry pairs
21:22:10 <nielsm> so whenever one is built, the other is also built, and if one shuts down they both shut down
21:22:24 <andythenorth> shut down is not controlled easily
21:22:29 <andythenorth> nor triggering build
21:22:32 <andythenorth> GS _could_ do it
21:22:40 <andythenorth> but it is blind to newgrf, by design, so eh
21:22:54 <nielsm> well what if it was added as a feature :)
21:23:05 <andythenorth> then it gets interesting
21:23:11 * andythenorth wonders if bundles builds hg branches
21:24:20 <frosch123> nielsm: can you give an example, which industries would you pair?
21:24:39 <andythenorth> maybe the branch is a jenkins setting
21:24:46 <andythenorth> but I am locked out of jenkins, so I can't check
21:24:49 <frosch123> usually we have use-cases to put certain industries not close to each other, so you can transport between them
21:25:06 <frosch123> but you seem to want to do the opposite: put industries near to each other
21:25:18 <andythenorth> in FIRS, the blast furnace and oxygen furnace are examples
21:25:33 <andythenorth> one feeds the other
21:25:48 <nielsm> for example the previously mentioned kalimanjaro, have it be a separate industry that always appears near a potash kiln
21:26:03 <andythenorth> it's not just an IRL thing in Steeltown, it also makes for really hard station building
21:26:30 <nielsm> for cargo delivery and production to stations the industries are separate
21:26:42 <nielsm> but they might have some shared data for the newgrf
21:26:49 <andythenorth> so Firefox used to memory leak
21:26:54 <andythenorth> and now Chrome CPU leaks
21:27:16 <Wolf01> Chrome eats... everything
21:27:46 <nielsm> or, depending on how much you could be made to control layouts, have large factoyr complexes where some parts mainly take inputs and different parts produce different outputs
21:28:31 <nielsm> e.g. a car factory with separate production lines for person cars and industrial machines
21:30:56 <nielsm> in part also just a way to overcome the 3 in/2 out cargo limits without changing structures or any other code :)
21:33:31 <andythenorth> I considered that for refinery cargos
21:47:16 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd
21:52:38 *** JustAsking has joined #openttd
21:57:03 <JustAsking> just noticed OpenTTD on Windows Store for $$$, is this allowed?
21:59:41 <nielsm> ottd is GPL, GPL expressly allows usage for any purpose including offering for sale at any price you want
22:00:07 <nielsm> as long as you offer any buyers a copy of the source code used to build the exact version received
22:00:47 <andythenorth> why is hg so hostile to branches?
22:01:06 <andythenorth> literally anything you do with branches, it tells you off
22:01:08 <nielsm> (buy it, demand to receive a copy of their modifications which must also be GPL licensed, integrate those modifications into master, put an official, free version on the windows store instead)
22:02:44 <nielsm> (and if they do not comply with your demand for sources, ask EFF for help in court)
22:03:21 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
22:03:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
22:14:09 <Alberth> hg branches bt making a new clone, iirc
22:14:40 <Alberth> at it used to do that
22:27:12 <andythenorth> hmm where should steel go :P
22:27:24 <andythenorth> such thinking to do
22:32:59 *** gelignite2nd has joined #openttd
22:48:49 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd
23:10:07 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
