IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-07-04
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11:31:32 <andythenorth> 'russian bias' :D
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11:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i see the same thing as you are
11:38:32 <andythenorth> is that an aesthetic thing, or because you grew up in a former soviet satellite state? o_O
11:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm more leaning towards "aesthetic thing" right now
11:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, the soviet-built locomotives we have here look nothing like that anyway
11:48:57 <__ln__> i.e. they have the portrait of honecker instead of stalin in the front?
11:49:28 <andythenorth> I can't decided if the Stalin portrait is bad taste or not
11:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i don't think that ever happened
12:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: putting pictures on engines wasn't really a thing anyway, but it would more likely have been pictures of Karl Marx or Wilhelm Pieck or Ernst Thälmann
12:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "England wins in penalty shoots" have we drifted into an alternate universe somehow?
12:09:30 <andythenorth> if peter1138 commits NRT, then definitely, alternate universe
12:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i would never notice that, because we have no bot anymore that announces commits
12:24:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nothing has been committed since the 6th of April, right?
12:24:17 <andythenorth> at least not to svn
12:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: correct. the project is therefore dead.
12:27:31 <andythenorth> it's been dying for years
12:27:37 <andythenorth> had to happen in the end
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17:55:02 <andythenorth> no but we should
17:55:17 <planetmaker> different tree placement algorithm. Haven't looked ingame. But sounds good
17:55:18 <andythenorth> allegedly it would reduce savegame size a lot
17:56:33 <andythenorth> reduce tree state storage in tiles
17:56:36 <andythenorth> move it to action 2 / cb
17:57:22 <Eddi|zuHause> proper newgrf trees would need like callbacks about growth patterns and animation states and stuff, it'd grow out of scale and grind every game to a halt for the sheer number of them being on any given map
17:58:06 <planetmaker> I fear so, too ^^
17:58:22 <planetmaker> though houses and vehicles... are not necessarily less on the map ;)
17:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> oh yes definitely fewer
17:59:02 <Alberth> add realistic growth, 1 call / year
17:59:19 <andythenorth> they're processed in a periodic loop anyway no?
17:59:26 <andythenorth> game doesn't call all tiles all the time
17:59:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember early versions of ECS vectors, where a) map generation took ages, and b) starting on an empty map of any reasonable size was already slow beyond playability
17:59:46 <andythenorth> I don't see the issue, trees have to run code anyway
18:00:11 <andythenorth> I think savegame loading would take longer
18:00:12 <Alberth> newgrf is interpreted rather than native machine code
18:01:21 <planetmaker> new requirement: JIT for NewGRFs :P
18:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem is almost never the amount of code that is run, but rather like switching context between regular game code and newgrf code and back
18:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> this kind of switching is many orders of magnitude slower than any piece of code you could run
18:22:59 <peter1138> knowing me, knowing you
18:23:45 <peter1138> 16:59 < andythenorth> they're processed in a periodic loop anyway no?
18:23:58 <peter1138> yeah, not if you removed tree state storage in tiles...
18:24:44 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, there is no context switching o_O
18:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it was a bit oversimplification
18:25:02 <peter1138> It's not like there's a separate process :p
18:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but it's almost definitely provoking cache misses in places where that's unlikely currently
18:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and accessing RAM is still like factor 1000 slower than L1 cache
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18:58:05 <peter1138> cache misses will happen lots anyway
18:58:13 <peter1138> that's far quicker than a context switch
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19:04:21 <andythenorth> so newgrf trees then
19:04:44 <andythenorth> imagine the drama about labels and stuff
19:06:23 <andythenorth> different trunk thickness
19:06:37 <andythenorth> variable for deciduous or coniferous
19:06:43 <andythenorth> oops, that's probably a prop not a var
19:06:53 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
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19:07:49 <nielsm> ecological effects, these magical trees suck out all energy from the ground preventing any other trees, or farming industries, from growing nearby
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19:12:43 <Wolf01> So, it's 115% air humidity
19:15:24 <Alberth> or just 15% above normal :p
19:20:03 <andythenorth> if we don't do newgrf trees
19:20:07 <andythenorth> I think OpenTTD is dead
19:20:23 <Wolf01> WTF merge NRT and look if it's dead
19:21:02 <andythenorth> NRT = nail in coffin? :D
19:21:45 <Wolf01> We should flood the game with features nobody uses and see :D
19:22:05 <peter1138> But I'm about to go out MTBing
19:23:04 <andythenorth> put a tablet on your bars
19:23:13 <andythenorth> code review + biking
19:27:09 <supermop> i want rich tree biome simulation in openttd
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19:41:19 <andythenorth> newgrf trees could grow tumbleweed
19:42:04 <andythenorth> what if newgrf 'trees' were 256 pre-defined states? o_O
19:43:04 <Alberth> ie just an animation?
19:51:16 <Wolf01> Just set if the animation must loop or when it stops the object goes away
19:51:47 <andythenorth> periodic processing chooses a frame at random
19:51:54 <andythenorth> it's basically awful
19:52:16 <andythenorth> but I feel bad that I don't
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20:49:04 <V453000> Alberth: yeah it's pretty dead :P
20:50:13 <Alberth> how is? you're still alive and well?
20:52:20 <V453000> I am, but I don't see continuing on BRIX anytime soon. :D
20:52:36 <V453000> if I do anything, then the train set, but even that probably next year at soonest
21:01:36 <andythenorth> V453000: work 27 hours / day
21:10:06 <andythenorth> I am drawing about 4 Iron Horse trains every day
21:10:19 <andythenorth> there are only 100 left to go eh :P
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23:10:04 <planetmaker> if it's newgrf trees, then better go the whole way, make trees a property of the tile - and make newgrf ground tiles
23:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that help anything?
23:10:52 <planetmaker> it doesn't help trees. But it helps overall in having a less boring landscape
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