IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-04-18
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02:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> I still consider a way to upload it from the client directly <-- i think one of the downsides is that you won't have any means of contacting for further questions
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04:46:03 <supermop> Pikka: i expect ypu to buy several xxxxs per month now with my pledge
04:46:36 <Pikka> can I buy something nicer? ;)
04:47:25 <supermop> haha i should have specified in the pledge "for 4x only, not for makeing sprites"
04:47:44 <Pikka> it's much appreciated :)
04:48:30 <supermop> how's architecture school? i would have warned you off it
04:49:00 <supermop> i trust you'll make more of it that i have
04:50:15 <Pikka> we're both making TTD sprites, what more could there be? :)
04:51:43 <supermop> i started working as an architect again this year
04:52:12 <supermop> then quit 2 weeks ago to work for a modular construction company
04:52:41 <supermop> still have not come to a final reckoning of how i feel about that
04:52:58 <supermop> i regret it, but also modular stuff is sort of my whole deal
04:55:33 <Pikka> if it's leading in a direction you want to go in, I guess you have to take the leap some times...
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05:05:43 <Pikka> I was a bit worried about the length... I drew the 20 first, but drew it as 8/8, so I guess all the diesels and electrics are going to be the same size.
05:15:15 <supermop> hmm 20 does look a bit big
05:20:55 <Pikka> it doesn't look too bad shortened to 7/8, maybe I'll do that
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08:21:14 <andythenorth> need some 1930 coaches :P
08:21:24 <andythenorth> that don't look like 1960 coaches
08:21:36 <andythenorth> 1860 is easy, clerestory roof
08:21:47 <andythenorth> 1900 is ok, just do narrow windows
08:22:10 <Pikka> LMS period 2? squarish, medium sized windows?
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08:27:49 <peter1138> I was gonna say, can smoke have variations :p
08:28:01 <peter1138> Also, I don't like zbase much :(
08:28:07 <peter1138> Those chunky signals, woah.
08:28:18 <peter1138> It's an impressive body of work mind you./
08:28:41 <peter1138> 4x zoom original graphics, some kind of magic :D
08:29:36 <andythenorth> maybe I need 2x zoom? :P
08:29:38 <Pikka> I was gonna say, can smoke have variations :p <- custom fx sprites would be kind of handy, rather than being limited to the default smoke/smoke/sparks ;)
08:29:55 <andythenorth> that's either supported, or was on frosch's to-do list
08:30:13 <peter1138> I suspect it's not supported. If it was, Pikka would know.
08:30:48 <andythenorth> that's like assuming I know the newgrf spec :P
08:31:18 <peter1138> Is smoke still a vehicle? heh
08:31:24 <peter1138> Or is that just shadows.
08:31:38 <andythenorth> I think it got dropped because controlling the effect vehicle would be faff
08:32:17 <peter1138> CBID_VEHICLE_SPAWN_VISUAL_EFFECT
08:32:19 <andythenorth> the thing with frosch is
08:32:22 <andythenorth> writes a spec :)
08:37:08 <peter1138> And lets someone else implement it.
08:38:35 <andythenorth> frosch has done a lot of newgrf ponies for me ;)
08:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you might need a new nfo "feature" to override the effect vehicles?
08:55:46 <V453000> Pikka: finally loaded the trains in game, they look incredibly good. :)
08:56:26 <V453000> You're seriously making me consider returning to hand drawing the sprites ._.
08:56:46 <V453000> Might end up with 3D with heavy postproduction
08:57:40 <andythenorth> I seriously am tempted to automate Pikka's pipeline :P
08:58:01 <andythenorth> you could have sedation
08:59:44 <andythenorth> I change 1 coach roof pixel, 122 sprites get updated :)
08:59:52 <andythenorth> same for chassis
09:00:35 * V453000 says shit about uniqueness
09:00:45 <andythenorth> yeah, better to have 122 good sprites :P
09:00:57 <andythenorth> instead of 22 unique and 100 with mistakes
09:02:20 <V453000> the amount of detail in the x2 sprites is just outrageous
09:04:22 <andythenorth> V453000: swap? o_O
09:04:50 <peter1138> What is V453000's current project?
09:05:10 <V453000> idk andy what to do :D
09:05:17 <V453000> peter1138: a new train set
09:05:38 <peter1138> Any teaser images? :p
09:05:53 <andythenorth> I am definitely *not* going to do 2x
09:06:00 <andythenorth> but not because I don't like the look
09:08:08 <V453000> I'm just building a functional prototype so far
09:08:19 <V453000> because ofc I am going to abuse the hell out of specs
09:08:53 <V453000> this would be the biggest steamer in scale, 24/8 :)
09:09:14 <peter1138> Looks like the wheels all have tyres though, hehe
09:09:49 <V453000> the set is called PART Assembled Road Trains
09:10:10 <V453000> the core idea is that you have 1 train class of 11 engines that you unlock over time, and with it wagons
09:10:38 <V453000> ther are 6 types of wagons, every one is universal for any cargoes, but the trick is that each of the wagons changes the way how the train performs
09:10:48 <V453000> aka, power wagons, max speed wagons, ...
09:11:16 <V453000> there are also 5 railtype roads which change the performance of trains on it
09:12:17 <V453000> idea is that purchase menu is not cluttered so it's fairly beginner friendly (there will probably be a basic part which adds a bit of each), but the possibilities are almost endless
09:12:50 <V453000> the trick of the performance boosting parts is that the closer the wagon is to the engine, the more efficiency it has, so you need to prioritize what is where
09:12:55 <_dp_> peter1138, you can use bootstrap with sass and move presentation details there
09:13:36 <andythenorth> mega-classes, instead of composition? o_O
09:14:12 <V453000> technically, I'm using the layered vehicle drawing so on the engine it shows some "levels" of strength in 3 areas - engine, cabin and wheel
09:14:39 <V453000> It's literally 1 engine class andy, the only way how to get differently performing vehicles is through wagon compositions
09:15:01 <V453000> since the engine changes visually based on the wagon types behind it, it shouldn't be too visually boring
09:15:18 <V453000> plus of course wagons get variations and unique graphics for every cargo etc
09:15:23 <_dp_> andythenorth, not necessarily, you can do smth like BEM
09:15:35 <_dp_> andythenorth, basically, semantic classes instead of presentation ones
09:17:29 <andythenorth> so much time wasted by people who don't understand that html is fundamentally presentational
09:18:05 <andythenorth> it's a markup language, not a data store
09:18:44 <andythenorth> although previous to html 4 it was much too presentational, all very wrong
09:23:00 <andythenorth> also people who think inline styles are somehow wrong :(
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10:19:58 <andythenorth> V453000: new style? o_O
10:20:53 <V453000> no but right now I'm trying to figure the fuck out, what do I do with the wheel
10:21:04 <V453000> do I keep t he idea of road types and tires, and if, how
10:21:34 <V453000> because of the visual puzzle, they need to fit into each other so it's not that easy :)
10:22:18 <andythenorth> that image gets around a lot
10:23:14 <V453000> I didn't really see inspiration, but yeah this is what it could look like
10:25:12 <V453000> The thing is, trains have that kind of thing that's just inherently cool
10:25:36 <V453000> which is why I'm trying to have the top half look like a train, just the wheel are more car like
10:25:45 <V453000> also top level tractive effort = tank treads ofs
10:27:12 <V453000> but then when you show me a picture like that, uhhh
10:27:18 <V453000> I don't know what I want
10:29:13 <andythenorth> I liked BRIX style :P
10:29:20 <andythenorth> I thought the micro-machines were winningest
10:29:32 <andythenorth> how come you get to change style every 12 months?
10:29:49 <andythenorth> but Eddi|zuHause always says I never stick to my decisions or finish anything :P
10:32:11 <V453000> I think it's mainly because I don't spend much time actually making things
10:32:22 <V453000> and the plan for this train set has been in my head for years now
10:33:09 * andythenorth lost in world of tiny pixels
10:33:24 <andythenorth> I need 12 liveries for 6 generations of pax coach
10:33:50 <andythenorth> and I have 6 pixels height body to paint on
10:34:07 <V453000> I'm already considering adding a "rails instead of roads" parameter
10:34:21 <V453000> but I really don't know how would the wheel look there
10:34:57 <andythenorth> what was the goal again? o_O
10:35:02 <V453000> ultra chibbi wagons were cool, yes
10:35:11 <V453000> the idea is that wagons give different bonuses
10:35:26 <V453000> and if trains has over 128 TE modifier, then it uses a different sprite for wheel
10:35:36 <V453000> moar TE, better wheel, most TE, tank treads
10:36:04 <V453000> combined with 5 road types, where the train actually gets faster on better roads
10:36:26 <V453000> I guess having track types where trains get faster on better rails is ok too?
10:37:04 <V453000> Does having more wheel do any effect on TE logically IRL Realism Engineering?
10:37:51 <andythenorth> it's not 100% known
10:38:04 <andythenorth> or rather, engineers disagree
10:38:17 <andythenorth> traditionally the number of wheels has been disregarded in TE calculations
10:38:20 <andythenorth> just the weight is ued
10:38:22 <V453000> I'd expect philosophers to disagree but engineers :D
10:38:42 <andythenorth> but when General Motors tested early diesel locomotives in the 1940s
10:38:52 <andythenorth> in tests, more wheels => more actual TE delivered
10:39:04 <andythenorth> many rail engineers still dispute this
10:39:08 <andythenorth> because...people
10:39:26 <andythenorth> it's a game, fake the physics
10:39:41 <V453000> well I still kind of like the idea of mud road -> stone road -> asphalt road -> concrete road -> megamodern concrete road
10:39:45 <andythenorth> in my super realistic train set, the TE is faked to get gameplay results
10:40:00 <V453000> with tracks it's kind of track A -> track B -> track C -> track D -> track E
10:40:32 <V453000> well I mean adding wagons to an engine and increasing it's TE that way isn't exactly realistic I'm afraid :P
10:42:21 <V453000> In case of rails what I was considering was that the wheel part of the train would change based on track type, too ... that way I could have trains automatically switching between tire/rail/monorail/maglev equipment :D
10:42:35 <V453000> which kind of is 4 times more graphics for wheel but you know...
10:43:09 <V453000> Basically trying to make track types something more interesting than a track->track->track progression
10:43:19 <V453000> the first tracks would be more brown and the final tracks more gray, but eh
10:43:42 <andythenorth> do some where the track is rack + gear
10:43:52 <V453000> And there's always the floating equipment idea for wet tracks :P
10:44:21 <V453000> that was actually the original idea of my previous train set attempt, I called it GEAR
10:44:34 <V453000> the part concept was the same but the vehicle would look like a giant cog wheel on racks
10:44:45 <V453000> didn't work, the animation callback isn't sensitive enough
10:45:40 <andythenorth> it was even realism though
10:46:31 <V453000> Maybe the idea with wildly different track type progression isn't that bad
10:46:45 <V453000> is it ridiculous? yes
10:47:25 <andythenorth> progression is weird anyway
10:47:37 <andythenorth> probably makes sense in a big coop game or so
10:47:48 <andythenorth> I use track types to do different transport options
10:48:00 <andythenorth> mostly incompatible always
10:48:16 <V453000> well the thing is that if the track type just gives some stat adjustments to the trains, you can basically keep using one type somewhere, and a different one elsewhere
10:48:46 <V453000> fun part is that the trains are compatible and automatically re-gear their wheel when going from one to another
10:49:30 <V453000> the ultra chibi style might work with it, too
10:50:24 <andythenorth> V453000: when did you last play mario kart? o_O
10:50:56 <andythenorth> ok so depending on version
10:51:00 <andythenorth> track affects kart a lot
10:51:19 <andythenorth> e.g. red and green arrows that slow you down / speed you up
10:51:25 <andythenorth> facing you or facing away
10:51:34 <andythenorth> water that has a flow, with or against you
10:51:51 <andythenorth> levitation tracks where you float and handling changes
10:52:05 <andythenorth> shame tracks don't have one way road equivalent :P
10:55:06 <V453000> I could also just not show TE visually :D
10:56:20 <andythenorth> you're maybe more interested in gameplay mechanics than me :D
10:56:35 <V453000> oh and if I add maglev tracks then those give zero fucks about TE
10:56:40 <andythenorth> my view: pick train track, build train, PBS, 5 tiles, go
10:57:49 <V453000> actually nevermind, train behaves based on it's home track type
10:57:54 <V453000> not the one traveled on
10:58:05 <V453000> so TE still works for a RAIL train even on MGLV track
11:03:20 <V453000> yeah the ultra chibi trains have some character :)
11:03:25 <V453000> I'll try to return there
11:05:04 <V453000> ok andythenorth you win
11:08:37 <andythenorth> what's mny prize?
11:09:28 <andythenorth> everyone's a winner
11:09:47 <andythenorth> V453000: seriously, combining *engines* for effects is good
11:10:15 <andythenorth> make all same length unit, and have 'speed booster' unit, 'super TE unit'
11:10:26 <andythenorth> and combinatorial graphics wtf madness
11:10:46 <andythenorth> it's even total realism
11:11:43 * andythenorth time for synthwave and exercise bike
11:19:12 <peter1138> Urgh, which stash contains this code I partially wrote :S
11:19:36 <peter1138> I really need to get into the habit of making temporary branches
11:19:46 <peter1138> "git stash" doesn't give you much to go on :p
11:20:32 <andythenorth> then eventuall... -d
11:20:44 <andythenorth> or the branches count gets daft
11:21:29 <peter1138> Yeah, but at least with a branch you're forced to name it, and you can pick just bits of your WIP stuff to commit, rather than having a massive lump of an unnamed stash.
11:22:43 <andythenorth> I often just name the branch for the ticket number
11:22:52 <peter1138> Yeah, that is enough
11:23:25 <peter1138> My stuff doesn't have tickets though, cos it's mostly shit I think needs fixing. Maybe I should make my own tickets.
11:33:36 <peter1138> Shame it doesn't integrate much with Jenkins.
11:35:19 <peter1138> It does show the build status in a commit, but not within a pull request
11:37:06 <peter1138> Also, go for 20mph.
11:38:15 <V453000> yeah andy I believe the concept is really sound, just need to put it together somehow
11:38:30 <V453000> thinking about it for years without being productive leads to more confusion than solid planning apparentl
11:38:33 <peter1138> And request new features!
11:39:00 <peter1138> There's no way to affect vehicle progression other than time, is there?
11:39:08 <peter1138> Maybe a gamescript could do it, but.
11:40:11 <peter1138> When your credit card bill was £2000... :S
11:41:48 <peter1138> Mind you I did buy that bike.
11:42:28 <V453000> actually it's nice outside
11:42:31 <V453000> maybe I should go bike
11:46:18 <andythenorth> peter1138: I can't sustain 20mph on the exercise bike, resistance is weird
11:46:20 <andythenorth> and I'm unfit :P
11:46:46 <andythenorth> I used to cycle at 23mph on flat, but that was 20 years ago
11:47:11 <peter1138> I only once did a ride averaging 20mph
11:47:48 <peter1138> normally 15-17 depending on the group
11:47:50 <andythenorth> need a flat route, cycleway, no stops, no dog walkers, no headwind
11:47:55 <peter1138> or 10 on the mtb :D
11:48:39 <peter1138> cycleways suck for performance
11:48:51 <peter1138> they are designed for pootling along at 10mph
11:49:20 <V453000> I'm happy if I get from work to home, and that's just about 12km and 100m total uphil
11:49:43 <V453000> need to exercise more :D
11:50:03 <andythenorth> I drive everywhere now :P
11:50:06 <andythenorth> I live at the top of a hill
11:50:10 <andythenorth> massive disincentive
11:50:53 <andythenorth> also did I miss the bit above where we added a tech tree?
11:51:06 <andythenorth> vehicles get a label for a tech group
11:51:07 <peter1138> Silly fitbit round errors. Says my weight is xx.4 in one place and xx.3 elsewhere
11:51:22 <andythenorth> maybe you had a wee in between
11:51:36 <peter1138> From the same reading! :p
12:34:19 <Sacro> peter1138: gravitational differences
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13:31:56 <peter1138> Ok I ate, now I'm well above the .4 :p
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14:39:36 <Pikka> we didn't win the pub trivia, unfortunately
14:43:16 <andythenorth> should I put a photo of my dinner on twitter? o_O
14:43:41 <Pikka> unless it's an extraordinary dinner
14:44:30 <andythenorth> I've never done it before
14:44:38 <andythenorth> also no more Twitter probs
14:44:40 <andythenorth> social media is over
14:45:16 <andythenorth> irc never pretended to be social :)
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15:01:20 <stefino> Hi. How many sprites can I have in industry grf? I read something that each industry tile has an ID and this ID can be 0-255. So there is only 256 sprites what can I use? Thx
15:02:05 <andythenorth> you can switch sprites in the action 2 chain for the tile graphics
15:02:21 <andythenorth> you only need 1 tile per indsutry industry usually
15:03:00 <andythenorth> there is a cb to check the tile's position in the industry layout
15:03:34 <stefino> Oh...so this mean kind of industry. And each industry can has XY tiles (graphics)
15:04:06 <andythenorth> you still are limited to 255 industry tiles I think
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15:04:40 <andythenorth> I could paste FIRS code, but it's very complex
15:04:56 <stefino> I can find it in repo ;)
15:05:33 <andythenorth> 'relative_pos' is the var you want
15:05:59 <andythenorth> if you have more than 1 industry layout, you also need to check 'layout_num'
15:07:46 <stefino> I'm doing cargos for our vehicle sets and prepared industry set for future. So I read something about coding industry in NML and found this tile-limit.
15:08:11 <stefino> okay, try to find some information about this :) hope that it will be easy to code :D :)
15:09:38 <stefino> I have a plan to look into your code and try to undasrtand how does it work
15:11:06 <stefino> my industry diagram look very similar like your ultimately
15:13:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: all my pax coaches are too small
15:13:58 <andythenorth> but it looks better :P
15:15:04 <andythenorth> windows should be 3px high
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15:17:07 <andythenorth> such supermop_work
15:17:57 <supermop_work> Pikka: the dmu is tops
15:18:47 <Pikka> andy, the windows are a bit small on some, perhaps... especially the earlier ones, they should reach nearer the roofline?
15:19:05 <andythenorth> they should but then it doesn't look so good
15:19:40 <andythenorth> I thought it would be fine, but the steam engine looks massive now :)
15:19:46 <andythenorth> maybe that's a good thing
15:19:48 <supermop_work> andythenorth: for MUs, the 3+1 or 4+1 rakes look weird
15:20:06 <andythenorth> I could split a 4 into 2+2
15:20:19 <andythenorth> it's just more switches :P
15:20:39 <supermop_work> i think it should go 1, 2, 3, 4, 3+2, 3+3, 3+4, 4+4, 3+3+3, ...
15:21:04 <andythenorth> although there is an upper limit to measuring length :P
15:21:11 <andythenorth> but % is useful eh
15:22:17 <supermop_work> i know 1 car units coupled to 2s or 3s are prototypical in the uk, but they look odd proportionally
15:22:40 <andythenorth> it looks wrong 3+1
15:23:28 <andythenorth> I just need to use odd/even check on lengths that are divisible by 2
15:23:35 <supermop_work> vestigial railcar hanging off the end
15:23:44 <andythenorth> and have a different rule for non-divisible-by-2
15:24:01 <supermop_work> +1 to royal mail magic
15:25:01 <supermop_work> maybe i should also jump into the british rolling stock game
15:25:26 <supermop_work> large logo only set
15:25:44 <supermop_work> A4s in large logo with yellow cab ends
15:26:15 <supermop_work> stephensons rocket in Large Logo
15:26:42 <supermop_work> bolt a piece of sheetmetal onto the side for the logo
15:27:28 <andythenorth> I thought about yellow ends for steam
15:27:33 <andythenorth> as there is a forums request for it
15:29:59 <andythenorth> supermop_work: no comments on the TPO :(
15:30:29 <supermop_work> with the blue window in the middle?
15:30:53 <supermop_work> "9:24:03 AM supermop_work +1 to royal mail magic"
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15:33:24 <andythenorth> will I be able to resist adding engine liveries? :x
15:35:12 <supermop_work> regional railways pendolinos
15:35:23 <andythenorth> there are forums for fake train liveries
15:35:53 <supermop_work> really large logo and gner are all you need
15:36:03 <supermop_work> objectively the best
15:36:14 <andythenorth> I considered LL for Horse, on flip
15:36:21 <andythenorth> so do I do the yellow ends?
15:37:23 <andythenorth> if I do yellow ends, and then split body into 1cc, 2cc, many things are possible
15:37:42 <andythenorth> and then on reverse, stripe with white or dark grey somehow
15:38:17 <andythenorth> I like the purity of 1CC, but eh, that's possible, just don't set 2CC
15:38:47 <supermop_work> yellow is not a cc
15:38:52 <supermop_work> you must do yellow
15:39:31 <supermop_work> the 2cc is offensive in its denial of warning panels
15:41:46 <andythenorth> supermop_work: the yellow is blah blah blah but ok
15:41:51 <andythenorth> I liked pure red
15:42:30 <supermop_work> move to germany
15:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if your options are to split into groups of 3 or 4, then your switch should maybe check %12
15:44:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks
15:45:08 <andythenorth> supermop_work: ^^
15:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that way, anything longer than 12 you can split off and do 4's, and the remaining bits from 1-11 you can special case what looks right
15:45:38 <supermop_work> pre-yellow is mythology in my book
15:46:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's groups of 2 or 3, but it's %6 in that case? o_O
15:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense
15:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be the "least common multiple"
15:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (possibly that name is ill-translated)
15:50:10 <andythenorth> nah it makes sense
15:50:33 <Pikka> supermop_work: as of 2016 british railways are post-yellow, apparently
15:52:20 <V453000> does anyone have a NML example of a bool parameter please? :)
15:52:38 <V453000> I want to make railtype speed limits turn on/off and then separate parameters for the actual speed
15:55:50 <andythenorth> Pikka: so I can ignore yellow :)
15:55:55 <V453000> asking if the names: should be there and if there should be 0 and 1 or T/F
15:56:20 <andythenorth> V453000: I have to go out, good luck! :P
15:58:14 <V453000> maybe I could just set them to 0 instead for each railtype and that way disable the limit
15:59:33 <supermop_work> Pikka: uk trains look wrong without yellow
16:00:15 <V453000> yellow is the best colour to abuse :)
16:07:12 <V453000> I'm already reusing the value directly
16:07:26 <V453000> speed_limit: param_speed_limit_1;
16:07:29 <V453000> it's in some weird units
16:07:41 <V453000> when I set 30 in the parameter in game, it's 107 km/h
16:08:22 <V453000> oh wow just adding km/h compiled
16:08:39 <Alberth> it's amazing stuff, every now and then :p
16:08:47 <Alberth> 1km/h may be a little slow :p
16:09:14 <V453000> the only weird part is that all of my engine km/h is in the kmh-ish
16:09:25 <V453000> is there any way to set the kmh/ish? :D
16:10:12 <V453000> it's not the biggest deal but it would be really nice
16:10:28 <Alberth> write more km/h at places?
16:10:31 <V453000> I thought that's what happens in case you don't specify an unit, but in case of railtype it's apparently something else
16:10:45 <V453000> that would mean adding km/h everywhere in NUTS
16:10:49 <V453000> that's not what I want :D
16:10:58 <V453000> I just want to set kmhish in PURR
16:17:53 <V453000> introduction_date: date(param_intro_date_1,01,01);
16:17:56 <V453000> this should work right?
16:20:04 <Alberth> no idea how to read that :)
16:20:50 <V453000> well if I can put the parameter directly into the date format
16:21:02 <V453000> one way to find o ut :P
16:48:10 <V453000> when I do a text in the parameter settings and I want the first part to be green, and the rest the default light blue, doe I have to do this? {GREEN}GREEN{LTBLUE} PURR Speed limit (kmh)
16:48:16 <V453000> or can I have some kind of DEFAULT instead of LTBLUE?
16:48:34 <V453000> like, in case OpenTTD decides the new default is BLACK
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16:55:29 <peter1138> Ah, well I have a patch for that.
16:55:53 <V453000> ok using LTBLUE for now
16:56:15 <V453000> does that work in trunk/stable?
16:59:03 <peter1138> I'll test it first ;)
16:59:16 <peter1138> Although pretty much all of the code is already in master.
17:01:45 <peter1138> ^ literally a one-liner.
17:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i find github very confusing...
17:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> like i never find the link to download or view stuff
17:03:36 <peter1138> Row of tabs with Conversation, Commits and Files Changed.
17:03:50 <peter1138> Files Changed probably the quickest to view.
17:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, by the time i find that, i've clicked on at least 5 wrong buttons before
17:04:52 <peter1138> Can also clock on the commit title / hash on the first page.
17:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's only view, how do i now download it and apply it to my checkout?
17:06:10 <Alberth> add .patch to the url
17:07:39 <peter1138> Yeah, the git way is nice.
17:08:10 <V453000> such, 2 releases in 2 consecutive days
17:08:15 <V453000> and it's not jus a hotfix :D
17:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably is, but nobody ever explains it properly
17:08:33 <peter1138> git fetch <-- command
17:08:41 <peter1138> origin <-- name of configured remote source
17:09:07 <peter1138> pull/6737/head <-- head of pull request
17:09:16 <peter1138> :branchname <-- name of local branch to use
17:11:10 <peter1138> (then you checkout the branch)
17:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like way too many steps
17:12:49 <peter1138> You could make an alias to make it a one-liner if you like.
17:14:32 <peter1138> Beats svn. download the patch, copy patch to local folder, get the correct revision. apply the patch, reapply the patch because it failed first time cos you forgot -p.
17:17:03 <Alberth> you don't even need a local branch name to check it out
17:17:52 <Alberth> forgot -p? how does that happen
17:20:31 <peter1138> Well, forgot or got the wrong number.
17:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but it could offer the "git fetch" command ready on the website
17:21:11 <peter1138> The website doesn't know what you called it as a remote.
17:27:32 <peter1138> Fair enough. Not there when signed out.
17:27:35 *** synchris has joined #openttd
17:28:08 <peter1138> The command line given is to checkout the branch and then manually merge it, rather than just grab the PR.
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18:02:18 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what do you think about testing compilation with various configure options, like --disable-network. Useful or complete waste of CPU time? #coop used to run a weekly job (https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/OpenTTD/193/). I ask because I would trink it would trigger on #6736
18:03:48 <LordAro> could pick one at random
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18:04:12 <LordAro> ...not that that makes any sense
18:04:30 <LordAro> could be part of the nightly build, maybe?
18:04:43 <LordAro> wouldn't want it as part of CI or anything
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18:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> MOAR AUTOMATED TESTS!
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18:26:59 <andythenorth_> so how many engine IDs we have? o_O
18:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x4000 if you want articulated vehicles
18:28:20 <andythenorth_> group vehicles in buy menu (one of those +\- toggle things)
18:29:12 <andythenorth_> “liveries” and other BAD FEATURES use IDs, not stupid hacks on props
18:30:05 <frosch123> andythenorth_: object gui and airport gui have separate selection boxes, no tree
18:30:23 <andythenorth_> might also work
18:30:31 <frosch123> also who-shall-not-be-named had a views suggestion, similar to how the waypoint gui works
18:31:03 <andythenorth_> the main thing is ‘use IDs’ not abuse props
18:31:26 <frosch123> you cannot change ids after construction
18:31:38 <frosch123> so, using ids is also bad :)
18:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the idea of "views" was also to be fixed at construction
18:31:59 <andythenorth_> no that’s one of the good points frosch123 :)
18:32:32 <andythenorth_> no crap with autorefit, autoreplace etc
18:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> my idea to abuse "views" was to change the number of articulated parts
18:33:16 <andythenorth_> vehicle props are static, no cb36 needed, no subtype abuse
18:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't clutter the buy menu with vehicles that are the same, just different length. and different introduction dates
18:34:15 <andythenorth_> no massive spec change, just a prop per vehicle, and a UI extensipn to navigate groups
18:34:25 <andythenorth_> phone typing sucks :(
18:35:44 <andythenorth_> livery over-rides also can get really really detailed :D :p
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18:36:43 <frosch123> ok, sounds reasonable :)
18:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well, airports, stations and stuff had pretty tight limits on the number of groups available to be defined
18:37:51 <andythenorth_> we just need an improved way to navigate in UI :p
18:38:01 <frosch123> which sprite is displayed in the list? the first sub-id, the last-used sub-id, or is there special magic for that line?
18:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd still lean towards the "views" idea, which essentially replaces the old cargo subtypes
18:38:33 <andythenorth_> groups _could_ be done like engine order
18:38:39 <andythenorth_> which nml magics
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18:38:52 <andythenorth_> could just define order n times in nml
18:39:03 <andythenorth_> nfo would be less magical :(
18:39:04 <frosch123> essentially "group_id" property :) not mixable between newgrf
18:39:25 <andythenorth_> similar to stations maybe?
18:39:35 <frosch123> stations would be mixable
18:39:41 <peter1138> station groups are mixable iirc.
18:39:42 <frosch123> also stations have separate name for the group
18:39:46 <peter1138> station classes anyway
18:40:32 * peter1138 attempts to remember all that work he did over a decade ago.
18:41:43 <peter1138> Ah yes, I need to go shopping.
18:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> be careful, it's Blitzermarathon
19:09:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
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19:17:36 <peter1138> Why did you leave!?!!!?
19:18:40 <andythenorth> getting the van washed
19:18:57 <andythenorth> also went climbing
19:19:04 <andythenorth> I used to live here
19:19:07 <andythenorth> I used to live here
19:19:31 <andythenorth> not in the picture, but I've walked along that train track
19:19:37 <peter1138> Oh I see. Actually I also went to Tesco.
19:19:52 <andythenorth> don't you live in the spiritual home of Tesco?
19:19:58 <andythenorth> or is that Cheshunt?
19:20:24 <andythenorth> when I was a kid, I always wondered how to pronounce Cheshunt
19:20:29 <andythenorth> it was on every tin of beans
19:20:32 <peter1138> I still don't know.
19:21:06 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I lost the WSL icon
19:24:47 <andythenorth> then vehicle-groups-in-buy-menu
19:24:58 <peter1138> Cos it's MTB night.
19:25:07 <peter1138> Except it'll be weird, cos it's kinda warm.
19:25:25 <peter1138> Probably less warm at 10pm, mind.
19:25:29 <andythenorth> got a branch in your fork yet? o_O
19:26:20 <peter1138> Wait is that git or bikes? :p
19:26:38 <andythenorth> I meant git, but yes
19:27:31 <andythenorth> hmm there was a grf for black company colour
19:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> a fork without a branch is a spear?
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19:38:06 <andythenorth> what wouldn't work with ID groups?
19:38:11 <andythenorth> auto-replace fine
19:38:14 <andythenorth> shared orders fine
19:38:18 <andythenorth> station refit fine
19:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you now have to make individual autoreplace commands per ID, and cannot set a group to replace with another group
19:41:58 <andythenorth> unless we rewite autoreplace
19:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and you still get prototype announcements and randomized introduction dates per ID instead of per group
19:42:13 <andythenorth> probably better not to
19:42:21 <andythenorth> ah the prototypes would suck
19:42:28 <andythenorth> and the random intro dates
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19:59:56 <peter1138> Uh oh, my water bottle has been outside all day. In the sun. It's going to taste nasty.
20:01:56 <peter1138> Oh. What's the allowed list of commit prefixes now?
20:23:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I agree that a weekly or so job with a big matrix of all kinds of options would be good; but it wont help with a PR?
20:24:50 <TrueBrain> and yeah, CPU power is a bit of an issue there; but I think we can find a way to solve that :)
20:28:51 <andythenorth> 25MB save from a dodgy looking site, won't load in my OpenTTD
20:30:06 <frosch123> maybe they used a patchpack that rebased on one of the broken revisions :p
20:30:46 <andythenorth> given that the reporter is my #1 forums annoyance right now
20:30:53 <andythenorth> I'm not inclined to dig deeper :(
20:31:10 <andythenorth> I can read the FIRS diff for last 100 revs or so, there's nothing there that would break tiles afaict
20:32:37 <frosch123> there were 4 broken revisions on march 11
20:38:03 <andythenorth> I ignore until someone else reports
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20:43:27 <Eddi|zuHause> exif data says: "Software : jgrpp-0.23.0 Description : Graphics set: OpenGFX (5580).NewGRFs:.F1250007 50167EDDB317877D8E42950458E85EA0 firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.7\firs.grf [...]"
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20:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> putting this stuff in the exif data is nice, but somehow no "normal" image viewer allows easy access to that
21:01:17 <TrueBrain> why does every project always start as a nice to read shell script ... and end up in a totally unreadable?! :(
21:02:39 <frosch123> it's worse with perl :p
21:03:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: if you're in need of some processing power, i could talk to the hosting company i used to work for
21:03:40 <LordAro> they like sponsoring people
21:05:50 <TrueBrain> LordAro: often we notice that these deals, how ever much I appreciate them, die within a year
21:06:12 <TrueBrain> the mirrors that survived so far, for example, are of those with people still active for those companies
21:06:25 <TrueBrain> so I am a bit reluctant
21:06:38 <TrueBrain> but, if we can get ccache to work, we can do a lot more compiling in a lot shorter window :D
21:08:35 <LordAro> they do sponsor all sorts of OSS projects though
21:08:53 <LordAro> hell, debian, freebsd have a load of infrastructure there
21:09:05 <TrueBrain> bandwidth, or also CPU? :)
21:09:18 <TrueBrain> but yeah, lets first see what we get out of our own box :)
21:09:34 <LordAro> i can't say i know details, but they're not usually too fussed about such limits
21:19:17 <andythenorth> if we can do cattle not pets, we could just go wherever someone will lend us CPUs :)
21:19:22 * andythenorth probably believes the hype too much
21:19:34 <andythenorth> Openstack and friends probably not all that good :P
21:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that why we use docker now?
21:21:01 <andythenorth> still have to orchestrate VMs
21:21:12 <andythenorth> docker has to be run somewhere :)
21:30:04 <TrueBrain> okay .. seems I have a base image for 10.13 .. now lets make a 10.12 real quick, so I can feed andythenorth a binary to test :D
21:31:00 <TrueBrain> well, I believe someone wise said I should just target 10.9
21:32:57 <TrueBrain> owh, it install clang 3.8 again
21:34:37 <TrueBrain> I dont get clang .. if I install another version, I have 2 clangs :P
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21:38:53 <TrueBrain> by default it doesnt install alternatives, it seems .. odd :(
21:41:30 <TrueBrain> trying out clang 6.0 .. beucase ... I guess OSX plays nicer with newer versions :)
21:42:30 <TrueBrain> and I havent installed any debug tools .. pretty annoying :D
21:42:34 <TrueBrain> not even 'file' or 'vim' :D
21:43:55 <TrueBrain> hmmm .. I guess I cannot publish this Docker, as it contains the SDK .. hmmmm
21:44:06 <TrueBrain> I do have to keep that in mind :)
21:54:07 <LordAro> does the dockerfile not just download it?
21:54:14 <LordAro> or do you have to do something more fancy to get it?
21:59:55 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I can publish the Dockerfile; just not the Docker
22:00:44 <LordAro> i wasn't really aware you could publish the image
22:00:54 <TrueBrain> ... docker .. hub?!
22:00:59 <TrueBrain> hello rock! Talk to LordAro :)
22:01:00 <LordAro> but i guess docker hub can't be building stuff itself
22:01:09 <LordAro> i've not thought about it much
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22:12:38 <TrueBrain> OSX openttd binary is 35 MiB
22:14:31 <LordAro> something getting statically linked?
22:14:47 <TrueBrain> in the old days we had to for OSX
22:14:50 <TrueBrain> I wonder if we stillhave to
22:15:01 <TrueBrain> only for dependencies?
22:17:19 <TrueBrain> okay, clang 5 already supports x17 ... 6 is still experimental
22:17:22 <TrueBrain> so lets try clang 5 :)
22:17:31 <TrueBrain> those are also marked expr
22:18:14 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, 6 is released
22:18:23 <LordAro> i have it on my system :p
22:18:26 <TrueBrain> so ... why do my downloads show exp
22:18:32 <TrueBrain> that says absolutely NOTHING
22:18:59 <LordAro> i know arch is bleeding edge, but i'd have to actually actively try to get experimental releases :p
22:19:02 <TrueBrain> ah, fuck it, 6.0 it is
22:19:13 <TrueBrain> but you didnt say you installed it via your package manager, to name one
22:19:19 <TrueBrain> I have a lot of stuff on my system :D
22:37:46 <TrueBrain> even if I do not compile it with --enable-static, it is 35 MiB .. damn
22:37:55 <TrueBrain> owh, wasnt static always enabled for OSX ..
22:38:20 <frosch123> osx used to be 3 binaries in one
22:38:48 <frosch123> but i think only one of them exists anymore
22:38:49 <TrueBrain> dont get me started about that :P
22:39:03 <TrueBrain> but I now compiled just one :)
22:39:33 <TrueBrain> no, static is not on by default on OSX
22:39:37 <TrueBrain> why is this so big :P
22:40:28 <frosch123> also, i need to relicense bananas2... both content server and musa are gpl2 only, so i believe i cannot add them to my gpl3+ project
22:40:57 <TrueBrain> please, either go MIT or stay gplv2
22:41:11 <TrueBrain> otherwise it feels you are changing license for the heck of it :P
22:42:35 <frosch123> i wonder what gh does if i force push a new history with a different licence :p
22:42:53 <TrueBrain> give it a spin please :)
22:43:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: honestly, I would really suggest keeping it GPLv2; or you must have a very good reason not to. A single license for a Project is kinda nice .. less confusion etc :)
22:43:32 <frosch123> yes, i'll now use gplv2
22:45:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: you can add them to gpl3 with permission from copyright holders :P
22:46:26 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: binary works for me \o/
22:46:37 <frosch123> yay, gh noticed the new licence
22:46:38 <TrueBrain> can you play for a bit, see if there are any noticable issues?
22:47:00 <TrueBrain> okay, ICU is 8 MiB .. and I need to compile that static on OSX
22:47:10 <TrueBrain> as otherwise we have to tell people to install macports etc :P
22:47:29 <andythenorth> I leave an AI game going
22:47:34 <andythenorth> no I can't actually, AIs crash a lot
22:47:41 <TrueBrain> things like mouse issues
22:47:48 <TrueBrain> the usual bugs etc with OSX
22:47:49 <michi_cc> ICU should actually be even more, because you also need the data lib.
22:47:52 <andythenorth> FF is not working anyway
22:48:19 <TrueBrain> data lib? I dunno .. I just compile static, and that seems to give one working bunch of stuff ..
22:48:23 <TrueBrain> just 30 MiB full of it
22:49:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I was more wonderinf this compiled a bit more proper, if this version is also better than what we currently publish
22:49:20 <TrueBrain> guess it doesnt really matter, and the bugs are really in the code
22:49:22 <TrueBrain> not in the build process :D
22:49:29 <TrueBrain> owh well, working OSX! \o/
22:49:32 <TrueBrain> both CI and release
22:49:49 <andythenorth> there seem to be more bugs on 10.13
22:49:51 <TrueBrain> I target 10.9 now, on michi_cc's advise; can always be changed :)
22:49:56 <andythenorth> I have to get child #1 to test on Sunday
22:49:58 <TrueBrain> and I only target x86_^4
22:50:02 <andythenorth> he gets 1 day a week on ottd
22:50:04 <TrueBrain> and I only target x86_64
22:50:14 <TrueBrain> no more PPC and i386 :P
22:50:28 <andythenorth> mouse has maybe stopped glitching as much
22:50:31 <TrueBrain> can I strip this binary more or something ...
22:53:26 <TrueBrain> stripped it is 34 MiB instead of 35 ...
22:54:04 <TrueBrain> well, it always has been this big .. so I guess why stop now
22:54:11 <TrueBrain> happy with the result; bed time now
22:54:23 <TrueBrain> tnx btw andythenorth :)
22:54:29 <andythenorth> thanks to you TB
23:31:42 <andythenorth> grey roofs must die though :)
23:33:00 <andythenorth> probably I should add yellow ends also
23:35:33 <Pikka> yellow roofs, obv solution.
23:36:37 <andythenorth> kind of like all roofs same colour though
23:36:42 <Pikka> and such integer train lengths :P
23:36:58 <Pikka> I think we had some cc-roof style cars in NARS?
23:37:21 <andythenorth> talgo or something
23:37:36 <andythenorth> you can *not* make integer trains with horse
23:37:42 <andythenorth> unlike with V453000 grfs
23:39:03 <andythenorth> he didn't respond :P
23:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, integer means 16/8
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