IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-03-03
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00:31:26 <Samu> eww, I'm so bad at this, I managed to trigger multi-threaded asserts
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00:44:41 <ATMunn> i've been having a weird problem in openttd recently
00:45:03 <ATMunn> whenever i try to pan the map with the right mouse button, it kinda spazzes out and doesn't actually move
00:45:24 <ATMunn> so im basically forced to use another method of scrolling if i want to actually play the game
00:45:41 <ATMunn> i used to play the game just fine without this happening
00:46:13 <ATMunn> yes, unfortunately :P{
00:46:27 <Samu> ok, download 1.7.2, it was fixed
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01:38:47 <SpComb> spent at least an hour making sure all my pax tracks are at least 120km/h
01:42:12 <SpComb> the same junction was already there in ~1920 but with far tighter curves, and without the tunnel in the hills on the other side
02:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> however, i have a track section it won't let me electrify
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03:01:35 <norenarick_> are there people in here?
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09:40:20 <andythenorth> the small one is size of OpenTTD ships :P
09:40:38 <andythenorth> 96px in – direction
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10:38:31 <SpComb> how long is a game of openttd ffom 1920 to ~2020 in real wallclock time?
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10:56:46 <Rubidium> that's roughly the ballpark figure
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11:28:59 <Wolf01> Even today I'll play tomorrow... 5 hours to update a game
11:29:14 <Wolf01> (5 hours estimated, which are like 8
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12:00:51 <andythenorth> can I mercurial with multiple remotes?
12:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so, 7m below surface doesn't suffice for building a tunnel under a city
12:03:14 <Wolf01> andythenorth, I think yes, but I found the remote stuff wobbly
12:03:31 <Wolf01> At least in my case I had problems updating the remotes
12:05:07 <andythenorth> in svn times, remotes were terrible
12:05:11 <andythenorth> but in git they seem to just work
12:07:00 <andythenorth> there's some things that are common to all my vehicle grfs
12:07:54 <andythenorth> for a while, copy-paste was fine
12:08:05 <andythenorth> DRY doesn't apply when you only have 2 cases
12:08:23 <andythenorth> but I have 3, and that triggers DRY in my opinion :P
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12:14:46 <andythenorth> I could just have a dedicated repo for common stuff, and a shell script that copies the files :P
12:14:50 <andythenorth> but it's a bit fragile
12:15:36 <andythenorth> and it lacks the changesets
12:15:42 <andythenorth> I assume hg remotes would solve that
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12:23:30 <andythenorth> can't find any good docs on how to hg remote
12:24:42 <frosch123> just "hg pull <other remote url>"
12:26:44 <frosch123> i am not sure whether it record new urls in .hgrc automatically
12:26:56 <frosch123> but you can definitely add them manually
12:27:35 <andythenorth> "abort: repository is unrelated"
12:27:49 <andythenorth> I tried to pull Road Hog in Unsinkable Sam
12:31:28 <andythenorth> ok that gets me multiple heads
12:31:33 <andythenorth> then presumably I would just merge
12:31:40 <frosch123> anyway, you probably want to start with a fresh repo for the shared parts
12:31:50 <frosch123> otherwise yuo will end up with the full history of both in both repos
12:31:58 <andythenorth> yes, I didn't do that merge :)
12:32:30 <andythenorth> I'll create something like andythenorth-common repo
12:32:40 <andythenorth> and then I can learn about triangular dependency problems
12:36:25 <andythenorth> If I do this now, then later I will have to move all repos to git at same time
12:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so this "subway" is probably totally useless
12:47:30 <andythenorth> what shall I call a common repo? :P
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14:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> your passenger station might benefit from the second road connection on the other side?
14:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the problem is not placing tunnels or bridges, but placing tunnels or bridges in tight space restrictions :p
14:21:02 <SpComb> I think that couts as tight
14:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> not as tight as i want :p
14:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, people start to use my "subway", but it's not nearly profitable
14:37:42 <andythenorth> let's see if I can make a repo on devzone
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14:42:46 <andythenorth> ha the repository magically got created
14:43:21 <andythenorth> "After you clicked 'create project', a mercurial repository will be created automatically and added to the project. This is done by a script which checks for new projects without a repository every seven minutes and adds a new, empty repo to both DevZone's redmine as well as rhodecode installs (technical details in admin guide)."
14:43:32 <andythenorth> ^ leaving that here for next time I search #openttd logs :P
14:46:49 <supermop> should i creat a new project?
14:49:31 <andythenorth> how on earth does .hgignore work with remote repos?
14:49:55 <andythenorth> this doesn't seem viable
14:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have a personal .hgignore
14:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> wherever your global hgconfig is
14:52:15 <andythenorth> also I'm going to license.txt and readme.txt polution
14:52:39 <andythenorth> anything in the remote repo is going to be brought into the downstream project
14:52:43 <andythenorth> this is a very bad idea
14:54:46 <andythenorth> maybe I should publish it as a library instead :(
15:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so, can i terraform new waterways?
15:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> need a dock near my cargo station
15:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, nope, riverbank cannot be modified
15:30:12 <V453000> Why is openttd on windows store for 2 euros? O_O
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15:33:17 <V453000> Shouldn't we like, do something about it?
15:34:55 <Wolf01> The "demo" is the game, it states you pay only if you want to donate to the one who published it on the store
15:36:35 <V453000> that's still fucking disgusting
15:37:40 <Wolf01> But to do it in the proper way he should have to modify the OTTD code and put a donation link somewhere, then make the game free on the store
15:38:06 <Wolf01> And at this point we could just publish the official OTTD on the store
15:38:26 <Wolf01> The developer license cost is ridiculous
15:39:03 <V453000> is there like an entry fee to the store or?
15:39:14 <Wolf01> Yes, to publish in the store you need a developer license, 19€ or so, lifetime
15:39:45 <Wolf01> Maybe is it possible to obtain a free developer license for OS projects
15:47:24 <andythenorth> V453000: is After Effects still Best Software Ever?
15:47:29 <andythenorth> I haven't used it for > 10 years
15:48:09 <V453000> depends how you look at it
15:48:46 <V453000> as an FX artist, it's really nice if you want a layer system, but some people prefer a node system
15:49:03 <V453000> for me working with layers as a timeline is just so much clearer whenever time is important (always in FX)
15:49:21 <V453000> as an image postprocessing tool it's still very good, but many of the underlying issues come up
15:49:59 <V453000> it eats gigant amounts of RAM in any uses, but for example when you overflow some amount of stuff in the javascript expressions, it just fails to update
15:50:37 <V453000> you can re-render the whole queue but you have to keep the same folder destination, otherwise it doesn't remember the path so you would have to set it up all again
15:50:47 <V453000> I didn't try to script things in it but I guess it would be helpful
15:51:25 <V453000> in the last few weeks I've been trying to replace with Blender's compositor nodes but it's just not an option to do that. Blender gets incredibly slow and just generating the nodes is pure hell
15:54:21 <andythenorth> I am thinking about making some animations
15:54:28 <andythenorth> and Flash is dead, and nothing seems to have replaced it
15:54:37 <andythenorth> so vector animation is kind of...over :(
15:54:56 <V453000> Flash is still the best program there I'm afraid
15:55:06 <V453000> I'd suggest just using Blender
15:55:18 <andythenorth> I just need 2D motion graphics
15:55:19 <V453000> Blender is surprisingly incredibly amazing for 2D animations
15:55:37 <andythenorth> oh seems that Flash is split now
15:55:41 <andythenorth> in crazy Adobe land
15:55:42 <V453000> you just put an orthographic camera to the side and you're done
15:56:05 <V453000> but since you have all the bone structures, parenting etc tools in Blender, it's great
15:56:28 <V453000> I haven't used it but I guess it would work well
15:56:30 <andythenorth> Blender is interesting left-field suggestion
15:57:01 <andythenorth> I used to really like Flash, it was completely intuitive to animate with
15:57:01 <V453000> and you only pay with your time and soul for it
15:57:20 <V453000> yeah learning blender isn't the most intuitive road I'm afraid
15:57:22 <andythenorth> my kids want to learn to animate, and we haven't found anything on ipad to do it
15:57:26 <V453000> It's fine for me now, but ...
15:57:30 <andythenorth> like, everything is just crap on ipad
15:57:43 <V453000> I bought one for myself on christmas
15:57:44 <andythenorth> we got the pencil thing
15:57:52 <V453000> I only take notes and play games on it
15:58:06 <V453000> I did buy procreate which is a nice program but in compare to full photoshop it's just a toy
15:58:13 <V453000> yeah I also got the pencil thing
16:00:30 <andythenorth> seems I can use the ipad like a big wacom
16:00:36 <andythenorth> haven't tried that yet
16:00:58 <V453000> you got the larger one? I got the ipad pro 10,5 inches
16:01:28 <V453000> yeah I think you can connect it to a mac(book) rather easily from what I read
16:02:05 <V453000> yeah I think I saw this
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16:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> how is it legally? <-- you could probably get him on a GPL violation, if you want to pay a lawyer
16:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (note that charging money is not a GPL violation)
17:05:15 * andythenorth implements more BAD IDEAS
17:12:51 <Samu> time to give up my multi-threading AIs, i really have no idea what im doing
17:29:56 <Wolf01> Looks more like spintires
17:30:38 <Wolf01> I wouldn't put lego in the mud
17:33:00 <V453000> I honestly wouldn't mind paying a lawyer Eddi, if chances are good to succeed
17:33:58 <Wolf01> But for what? Just put it out of business with an official version
17:34:39 <V453000> yeah that's the other side :P
17:34:52 <Borg> such parasites should be eliminated.. hard way
17:34:59 <Borg> but you guys are too pacifistic..
17:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are open source foundations that will happily go after gpl violations, if you sign over all rights to them
17:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but does anybody here have the legal authority to do that?
17:37:36 <Wolf01> I doubt we even have the authority to do OTTD
17:41:20 <Wolf01> Ok, enough astroneer for today: expanded the outpost on the exotic planet, made a 3 cars rover train, got killed at 10km from base, made a little rover to be able to recover the rover train
17:41:55 <V453000> I've been ill at home for the last 3 days
17:42:02 <V453000> I have like 30 hours of factorio for the last 3 days
17:42:13 <V453000> not sure if not mentally ill
17:42:29 <frosch123> i just finished the f dev gif thread
17:42:37 <frosch123> maybe now i am mentally ill
17:42:38 <andythenorth> V453000: I had a 2 day illlness a few weeks ago, like a fever
17:42:45 <andythenorth> I played 20 hours of tanks
17:42:53 <andythenorth> I got some ridiculous winning streak
17:42:59 <andythenorth> like 30 games no losses in a row
17:43:05 <andythenorth> due to hallucinating
17:43:08 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Everybody who contributed to OTTD has (under the assumption that OTTD itself is legal). After all, nothing in the GPL negates the individual copyright.
17:43:28 <V453000> well at least I don't have fever :P just some sneeze stuck in head, doesn't want to come out (much)
17:43:47 <Wolf01> Had a 8 day illness a week ago, played like 8 hours the entire week :(
17:44:20 <frosch123> 8 days of illness within a week sounds pretty bad :p
17:45:23 <frosch123> V453000: do you want to deal with info@ottd mails?
17:45:38 <Wolf01> The last day, monday, I was in pretty good health :P
17:45:57 <frosch123> currently there is some likely in fact mentally ill for real person copyright claiming random ottd lets plays on yt
17:46:26 <frosch123> and then yt always asks back whether the claim is legit
17:46:51 <frosch123> just give pm a hug when you see him :)
17:48:00 <V453000> how is that related? :D
17:48:17 <frosch123> because pm deals with the mails
17:49:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a horrible job
17:49:13 <andythenorth> I have a rule for mail
17:49:19 <andythenorth> 'select all -> mark read'
17:49:27 <andythenorth> people phone if it's really serious
17:49:31 <andythenorth> Wolf01: so is enough health for NRT? o_O
17:49:53 <Wolf01> I don't even know where to start with that
17:50:04 <Wolf01> Grf code is almost obscure
17:52:07 <Wolf01> Those kinds of callbacks should be executed at request and not only when the grf is loaded
17:52:33 <Wolf01> This mean we should also have 2 kinds of callbacks, load time ones and continuous ones
17:53:08 <andythenorth> presumably it's solved for railtypes though?
17:53:12 <andythenorth> or it's a bug in both
17:53:42 <Wolf01> Do railtypes actually work like you want for NRT?
17:53:56 <andythenorth> I have never found they don't :P
17:54:00 <andythenorth> I don't use them much
17:54:10 <Wolf01> I mean, do you have double powered engines?
17:54:22 <andythenorth> they seem to work
17:56:27 <andythenorth> visual effect is hard to judge
17:56:29 <andythenorth> but seems to work
17:56:34 <andythenorth> it's intermittent for trains
17:57:28 <andythenorth> power changes immediately on change of railtype
17:57:36 <andythenorth> I haven't got any that change speed
18:11:26 <V453000> what do you mean how? trainz! :D
18:16:41 <Wolf01> andythenorth: maybe some work on roadveh_cmd.cpp:L216?
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18:18:02 <andythenorth> how does train_cmd compare?
18:21:05 <andythenorth> I'm wondering if ConsistChanged is called when the railtype changes
18:21:19 <andythenorth> TrainController is quite complex :)
18:23:43 <Wolf01> ConsistChanged seem to do almost the same of RoadVehUpdateCache
18:23:57 <Wolf01> I bet we missed to call RoadVehUpdateCache somewhere
18:24:07 <Wolf01> Like when the roadtype changes
18:26:37 <andythenorth> in IndividualRoadVehicleController?
18:34:51 <Wolf01> After L1403, there you have the new vehicle position
18:36:46 <Wolf01> Or even the line pointed by you, try to put a call to RoadVehUpdateCache inside the 1311 if
18:37:14 <andythenorth> I wonder if we have a test grf
18:37:57 <andythenorth> I am afk for ~2 hours soon, but I can try later
18:38:15 <Wolf01> I'll be afk until tomorrow in 1 hour :P
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19:01:24 <Wolf01> Turns out I have Internet Explorer's reflexes
19:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i have some vague memories of using internet explorer 3
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20:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember days when the local russian army went out of their garrison with hundreds of these in a convoy
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20:41:46 <V453000> local russian army sounds pretty disturbing
20:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there was a saying: "we call the russians our brothers, not our friends, because friends you can choose"
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20:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> however, they left in 1994-ish
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22:31:01 <Borg> oh Eddi|zuHause .. u must be ex DDR citizen :)
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23:32:02 <Integer> Hello, I've some forum posts and wiki, but still I'm not sure. As 32bpp graphics has been moved to NewGRFs is there any "official" base graphics conversion project or independent mods only?
23:33:17 <Samu> i just tried to create a shortcut to recycle bin, inside the recycle bin... but windows isn't that stupid :(
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23:50:34 <NGC3982> so, i played astroneer
23:50:42 <NGC3982> really cool graphics, really cool concept
23:50:52 <NGC3982> unfortunately, it was also a no mans sky thing.
23:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how no mans sky was it?
23:54:10 <NGC3982> it's 20/80 do stuff/look at things
23:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> keep in mind that the main No Mans Sky criticism was that things were promised that were not delivered in the final release. where astroneer doesn't have a release, it is clearly marked as "early access"
23:54:48 <NGC3982> that's not what i had in mind when comparing the two
23:55:52 <NGC3982> and yes, it is still true that i cannot judge a game which is not completed. also, they have done a good job reminding me of that when i play. that's cool and all.
23:56:08 <NGC3982> still, it feels like the end product will be something cool to look at, and not so much to do
23:56:15 <NGC3982> but of course, i dont know that.
23:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: also keep in mind that before the last basebuilding and research updates, there was even less things to do
23:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> also, why doesn't this game let me build a crossing in a tunnel...
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