IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-01-30
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00:33:32 <supermop> andythenorth: what should a basic/essential spool roster be? just road and elrd?
00:33:44 <supermop> dirt? gavel as haul?
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09:17:56 <andythenorth> road, elrd, dirt
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10:18:01 <Arveen> lime scale, rust, ground in dirt
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17:48:35 <eickert2000> Spricht hier jemand Deutsch?
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18:26:03 <Samu> dang it, i need a super strong single-core cpu for 15x 250k ops AIs
18:30:42 <Samu> the mouse barely moves :(
18:31:26 <Samu> looking for openttd optimizer expert
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19:06:10 <Samu> he will build weird bridges
19:08:20 <Wormnest> I will have a look at it later. Not much time atm.
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19:13:35 <Samu> i never know which topic fits better
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20:42:02 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I just updated my ratt branches for the flags, no-houses and no-junctions... I would merge them all and add no-tunnelbridges too :P
20:43:46 <supermop_work> no junctions would be useful for chairlifts
20:44:17 <Wolf01> I could sneak push that, so andy won't know and he will be happy when will find it :D
20:47:23 <Wolf01> Commit message "added stuff"
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21:03:31 <andythenorth> Wolf01: so Bugatti Chiron
21:03:38 <Wolf01> andythenorth: what do you think about no-houses and no-junctions flags?
21:03:54 <andythenorth> I think no-houses is an easy win
21:04:05 <andythenorth> no-junctions is contentious, and should be a branch and tested
21:04:13 <andythenorth> but I don't really care about either :)
21:04:24 <andythenorth> "I don't really care" is great basis for deciding :P
21:05:09 <Wolf01> No-houses is ready, no-junctions is useful for a niche of types
21:06:28 <Wolf01> I could publish the no-junctions branch so you can test it, the problem is that taking one flag at time shares the flag value, so in one branch a grf could have no-houses and the other no-junctions
21:07:02 <Wolf01> Or we could reserve the flag positions
21:07:30 <Wolf01> So no-houses = 2, no-junctions = 3
21:08:39 <andythenorth> I think no-houses is a no-brainer
21:08:45 <andythenorth> and should be merged, and nml support provided
21:09:00 <andythenorth> it will have...interesting consequences
21:09:18 <andythenorth> allows manipulating town growth
21:12:52 <Wolf01> The only thing about the no-houses is that works only for road, tram is already unable to support houses
21:13:33 <Wolf01> I didn't merge it because of this
21:14:50 <andythenorth> I don't see any problem there
21:14:55 <andythenorth> just needs specific documentation
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21:23:38 <andythenorth> I'll need to do NML support
21:23:47 <andythenorth> but I don't think I'll get to that tonight
21:27:36 <andythenorth> also, bool flags can be added to trunk incrementally
21:33:30 <andythenorth> I merged ottd trunk in just now
21:38:13 <Wolf01> Ok, I was trying to figure out why I got so many merges
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21:40:46 <Wolf01> BTW, I added projects/.vs to ignores as I'm tired to reset the branches every time I need to switch
21:41:41 <supermop_work> andythenorth: no junctions is ropeways
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21:44:55 <Wolf01> And proper pipes too, bidirectional pipes with a lot of capacity and no problems about collisions
21:49:00 <Wolf01> IIRC you can only set flags with newgrfs, not unset them?
21:49:38 <Wolf01> The idea was to make trams default with no-houses and unset it if really wanted
21:52:01 <supermop_work> also highways, industrial roads,
21:52:27 <Wolf01> You set that on the newgrf, base trams are builtin
21:53:42 <Wolf01> Need some more tests on the no-houses branch with a well crafted grf
21:53:50 <andythenorth> I would just leave trams as 'no houses'
21:54:03 <andythenorth> the flag could be 'invert default house behaviour'
21:54:12 <andythenorth> but I don't think tram tracks need to build houses
21:54:26 <andythenorth> and I don't care about supporting esoteric stuff
21:55:02 <andythenorth> 'invert' wouldn't be the first weird newgrf flag :)
21:56:22 <Wolf01> Currently is ROAD,ELRD have houses, you can set no-houses with a grf; RAIL,ELRL no-houses, can you unset it?
21:58:10 <andythenorth> the flag can just invert
21:58:19 <andythenorth> newgrf has lots of weird stuff
21:58:22 <Wolf01> Ok, then is a no-problem
21:58:23 <andythenorth> this one doesn't bother me
21:58:36 <andythenorth> set the flag to invert the default
21:59:16 <andythenorth> compared to vehicle cargo stuff, it's totally sane
21:59:22 <Wolf01> But I don't think trams are able to support houses even without that flag
22:00:10 <Wolf01> So for trams is useless
22:01:47 <Wolf01> A bit of test won't be a waste anyway, maybe we could even merge it in a week
22:02:21 <andythenorth> we could patch towns to grow along tram tracks
22:02:26 <andythenorth> but that seems TMWFTLB to me :)
22:05:22 <Wolf01> Prepare a grf with 2 roads and 2 trams, both with one flag set, so 4 cases
22:05:51 <Wolf01> Also I should learn how to grf so I can do it by myself...
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22:07:06 <andythenorth> example roadtypes is included with nml repo
22:10:37 <supermop_work> Wolf01: take unspooled code, it's pretty short
22:10:56 <supermop_work> or tell me how to set the flags
22:11:18 <Wolf01> It's like the no level crossings
22:19:01 <supermop_work> is no junctions 'no junctions with other types' or 'no junction even with self'?
22:19:22 <Wolf01> No junctions with self
22:19:40 <Wolf01> As to make a junction with other types you need a junction with self
22:19:55 <supermop_work> good for ropes then
22:20:18 <Wolf01> At least until $someone will find a way to put 4 different types of roadbits on the same tile :D
22:20:36 <supermop_work> i'd like a no junctions flag for railtpes
22:24:11 <supermop_work> need to make a log flume grf
22:24:22 <andythenorth> py3.6 should be fine
22:24:25 <supermop_work> no junctions, no houses,
22:24:53 <supermop_work> only logs allowed, logs have 0 TE and HP when loaded
22:25:20 <supermop_work> so they can't flow uphill
22:26:14 <supermop_work> unloaded logs are invisible and have high HP to
22:26:27 <supermop_work> run back up to the top
22:27:44 <supermop_work> else just sell all logs at bottom of hill and buy new at top
22:28:10 <Wolf01> Need automatic purchase and sell of vehicles
22:29:03 <supermop_work> new orders: goto depot (sell)
22:31:03 <supermop_work> getting into territory of pipes as pipes instead of pipes as roads or rails
22:33:22 <Wolf01> Very maybe and in a very remote future
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22:34:53 <Wolf01> But I was thinking if we could use NRT to troll a bit the web on 1st april release
22:35:12 <Wolf01> Needs a lot of graphics
22:36:23 <Wolf01> Also it would be cool to have the real NRT on 1st april release
22:37:44 <supermop_work> what else do you need, graphic wise?
22:39:10 <Wolf01> Small ships, small trains, small rvs, use NRT to fake 2 tracks on same tile, 2 ships on same tile and 2 roads on same tile
22:40:57 <supermop_work> surely none of this is needed in base set?
22:41:18 <supermop_work> like two parallel roas?
22:42:02 <supermop_work> i guess that could be a 'micro scale' grf set
22:42:07 <Wolf01> BTW I think it's easier to do it with photoshop
22:42:28 <Wolf01> Yes, it could be released on bananas on 2nd april :P
22:43:00 <Wolf01> But only if NRT hits trunk, which is impossible in current state
22:43:06 <supermop_work> but using nrt to create novel scale tricks doesn't seem like necessary 'launch title' to me
22:43:53 <supermop_work> in terms of graphics needed to make nrt usuable in trunk, i am thinking gui sprites? (i think we have all of these)
22:44:32 <Wolf01> There are some serious bugs I need to address (the first one is the impossibility to build trams in scenario editor
22:44:54 <supermop_work> and if there is any new road or tram type that gets added to base sets
22:45:05 <supermop_work> what's the SE problem?
22:45:16 <Wolf01> Also I don't think the roadtypes dropdown is working correctly now (it should be fixed with the SE bug too)
22:45:22 <supermop_work> (also can't build rails in SE...)
22:46:17 <supermop_work> i think allowing towns to build multiple road types, or upgrade their own roads (during reconstruction?)
22:46:51 <Wolf01> There's a branch which is trying to address this bug, but it need some revision by $some-more-capable-dev
22:47:40 <Wolf01> Yes, there are some features missing, like the road used by towns and the ability to upgrade it
22:48:03 <supermop_work> but arguably it can go to trunk before then
22:51:08 <andythenorth> I think it's feature-complete for actual gameplay
22:54:47 <andythenorth> what does that branch do, remind me? o_O
22:55:09 <Wolf01> Fixes SE, fixes availability of roadtypes on the dropdown
22:55:45 <andythenorth> is it safe to merge to RATT branch?
22:55:56 <andythenorth> it's not trunk, I'd rather let players test it ASAP
22:56:50 <andythenorth> make a 'candidate' branch, from road-and-tram-types
22:57:03 <andythenorth> then merge cbvi branch into ratt branch
22:57:07 <andythenorth> and let players loose on it
22:57:18 <Wolf01> Just use that branch, it's synced
22:57:23 <andythenorth> ratt gets built by CF, I don't want to be building binaries for people
22:57:47 <andythenorth> and I don't want to ask Truebra*in for more favours :)
22:58:07 <andythenorth> I don't trust my own testing, I miss stuff often
22:58:48 <andythenorth> let's review tomorrow :)
22:58:49 <Wolf01> We could merge it, pray, fix the bugs which players find
22:59:18 <andythenorth> if we fork a clean 'candidate' branch, we don't have to de-merge anything later
22:59:26 <andythenorth> reverting branch merges is fine, but requires care
22:59:50 <Wolf01> We'll see it tomorrow, now bed ;)
22:59:57 <andythenorth> if I was working alone, I'd dump everything to ratt
23:00:13 <andythenorth> but I try to be more careful with other people's time :P
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