IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2018-01-11
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00:56:15 <Samu> i was mistaken about tracai, it crashed, but not a cpu evaluator crash
00:56:44 <Samu> nevermind, it was cpu evaluator crash
00:56:51 <Samu> man, i'm seeing things...
00:57:18 <ST2> Samu: tell me your dealers contact ^^
00:58:02 <Samu> the thing crashes in many ways
00:58:14 <Samu> it was cpu evaluator this time
01:04:17 <Samu> I learned a few things from these testings
01:04:39 <Samu> some AIs don't work well with 250k ops
01:05:12 <Samu> I notice that they don't work too close to the loan limit
01:05:39 <Samu> they are slower, and that's enough to keep them from wasting money that quickly
01:05:53 <Samu> avoiding unnecessary bankrupt
01:06:31 <Samu> I was always convinced 250k ops would benefit them, but apparently, I was wrong
01:11:16 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: complex division by zero
01:11:47 <ST2> aka: an infinite number ^^
01:13:32 <Samu> infrastructure costs for airports are still ridiculous, even when giving fat planes, like Dinger 200
01:15:52 <Samu> one AI has an income of £15M, but the profit is only £3M because he got 80 airports
01:17:06 <Samu> comparing with AIs who don't use airports, infrastructure maintenance costs are much more in-line
01:18:18 <Samu> MogulAI, which uses the most road pieces, got an income of £12M and a profit of £9,9M
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10:26:58 <Borg> vioala.. and its done :) sectorized OpenTTD
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13:51:50 <Borg> hmmm a weird idea popped in :D
13:51:58 <Borg> realistic train stop... an option..
13:52:22 <Borg> if train see red.. he hit breaks.. if he mis the stop signal.. oh well.. enoluck :)
13:52:35 <Borg> does train tracks last signal he passed?
14:54:34 <FLHerne> There was, somewhere, a patch to implement warning signals and allow overshoots like that
14:54:59 <FLHerne> But it becomes very complicated where junctions are involved, and is mostly just annoying
14:55:14 <Borg> its easy to do w/ presignals
14:55:30 <FLHerne> Currently, the path to be reserved by a PBS signal is only chosen at the instant a train reaches it
14:55:46 <FLHerne> Which obviously causes a problem for advance-warning aspects
15:06:05 <Borg> uh.. dude used too much physics there :)
15:17:03 <Borg> also went too much realistic in my opinion..
15:18:44 <Borg> still, idea is interesting.. would make look building tracks more natural
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16:29:43 <Samu> for my next AI tests, I was considering 4096x4096, unsure if solo or multi AIs
16:30:22 <Samu> wanted to see how well they handle big maps
16:32:10 <Samu> it's gonna consume too much of my time though
16:32:35 <Samu> and I don't think I have enough HDD space for all savegames
16:33:11 <Samu> it was something I really wanted to do
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16:40:50 <Samu> need to generate a savegame yet
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16:47:36 <Samu> they really increase savegame size
16:57:29 <peter1138> Just use a sensible map size.
16:57:36 <peter1138> Something like 256x256/.
16:59:01 <Samu> that has been tried many times :(
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17:08:09 <Samu> interesting, generating industries is quicker now
17:08:18 <Samu> did you change something about industries recently?
17:08:35 <Alberth> likely you changed the landscape
17:09:58 <Samu> that may be it, let me retry with less water
17:13:01 <Samu> it takes more time to generate trees than anything else
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17:20:32 <Alberth> you can use a different tree generator :)
17:21:31 <Samu> I will disable trees, to save a big chunk of hdd space
17:21:38 <Alberth> or remove all trees manually
17:21:56 <Alberth> gives a nice challenge after loading it again as a bonus
17:22:01 <Samu> it also seems to speed up savegame time
17:22:34 <Samu> tried autosaving with trees, it took 3 months game-time, and I was planning monthly saves
17:38:10 <Samu> I swear, generating industries is very quick now
17:38:23 <Samu> in a matter of seconds, 20k industries were generated
17:40:07 <Samu> let me try disabling multiple industries of same type per town
17:42:04 <Alberth> what are you going to do with 20K industries?
17:42:46 <Alberth> you really beleive an AI will connect anywhere near 1000 industries?
17:43:13 <Samu> i really don't know what to expect
17:43:29 <Samu> wanted to put them to their limits
17:44:52 <Alberth> mostly affects savegame size and cpu usage for saving
17:45:21 <Samu> it can't take more than 1 month saving
17:45:22 <Alberth> if you don't care for size, zlib is likely less cpu intensive
17:45:42 <Alberth> but the additional data that you need to save may kill that advantage
17:45:53 <Alberth> disk streaming is also quite finite :p
17:46:10 <Borg> cache!!! my friend.. cache!
17:46:29 <Alberth> yeah, 1TB cache will work :p
17:46:40 <Samu> also, the spectator can't disconnect while server is saving
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17:46:55 <Samu> i need to ensure spectator keeps connected with all autosaves going on
17:47:04 <Borg> im going to start new server... anyone?
17:48:29 <Samu> number of ops, what u suggest
17:49:05 <Samu> min 5k? default 10k? 16.666? 80k? max 250k?
17:50:08 <Samu> Wormnest: how many op codes do u got when u test AIs?
17:52:27 <Samu> think i'm gonna play safe and use defaults
17:53:14 <Samu> 10,000 ops / medium speed / easy profile
18:05:26 <Samu> gonna turn off cargodist and infrastructure costs
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18:13:09 <Samu> hope I don't regret setting 10k ops
18:38:28 <Samu> hope my rig doesn't overheat or crash
18:40:00 <Samu> so as I can see, LuDiAI was the fastest starter
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18:42:57 <Samu> seems that zlib:1 was a good compromise
18:43:16 <Samu> it is enough to save without the spectator dropping
18:46:40 <LordAro> why do you need to run a server?
18:46:50 <LordAro> can you not just start_ai ?
18:47:32 <Samu> uh... I don't know, I got used to this
18:48:17 <LordAro> running half as many ottd instances seems preferable ;)
18:50:07 <Samu> holy crabs, nonocab v5 has started building 1 year later, I was gonna expect 15 years or more, but no, it just started, only 1 year later
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18:56:56 <Wormnest> Samu: I´ve never experimented with opcodes always leave it default
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19:08:47 <Samu> terron dumps so much log text
19:09:26 <Samu> cleanest log award goes to trAIns
19:10:15 <Wormnest> Well if you set NoNoCAB´s log settings to errors only you won´t see much either
19:11:49 <Samu> LuDiAI is seriously fast
19:12:01 <Samu> it is about to reach £1M worth
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19:12:30 <Samu> it's a new AI isn't it? I don't recall seeing it before last year
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19:20:05 <Wormnest> LuDiAI is fairly new yes. I think it was a university project, which probably means we won´t see any updates to it.
19:23:00 <Samu> i see it abuses station spreading
19:23:25 <Samu> kinda hard to compete vs that
19:23:51 <Borg> anything larger that 21 is fucking abuse..
19:24:18 <Samu> i wanna avoid AIs crashing, so i set most limits to its max
19:25:59 <Wormnest> Well if AI´s crash then they need to fix it. Only good if problems are found with more regular settings :p
19:27:08 <Wormnest> Though I doubt there will be a lot of problems with setting lower station spread
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19:35:47 <Samu> i promise next time I will test really hard settings
19:39:25 <Samu> i'm surprised this is running so well
19:39:47 <Samu> 8 servers each 4096x4096
19:40:00 <Samu> there seems to be no delays
19:40:44 <Samu> there's a few pauses during month transitions due to autosave, but that's all
19:45:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27963 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2018-01-11 19:45:39 +0100 )
19:45:47 <DorpsGek> norwegian (bokmal): 2 changes by Leifbk
19:54:18 <frosch123> ^^ that guy broke firs :p
19:55:29 <Samu> seems that LuDiAI doesn't build more than 500 road vehicles :(
19:55:36 <Samu> i've set the limit to 5000
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19:58:47 <andythenorth> why did STR_EMPTY have chars? :o
19:58:58 <frosch123> no idea, translators added them?
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20:00:25 <frosch123> and removed them again in english, but translators kept them
20:00:41 <andythenorth> I've pushed, will eints just keep over-writing my local change?
20:02:23 <andythenorth> I can fix the issue permanently if it's worth it
20:02:29 <andythenorth> by making that string non-translated
20:28:15 <Samu> I'll post a screenshot when the first AI reaches £10M
20:32:32 <andythenorth> Wolf01: wondering about catenary cat
20:32:52 <andythenorth> wondering if the drawing is a loop, and if we can just run it twice
20:33:00 <andythenorth> once per road and tram
20:36:38 <Wolf01> Why a loop when you can hardcode both drawings?
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20:49:00 <andythenorth> iz chicken for tea
20:58:01 <Samu> next screenshot is first to £100M :p
21:04:52 <Samu> Wormnest: WormAI transports oil from oil wells in temperate tileset, is that intended? :o
21:05:04 <Samu> it's that kind of industry that wear off
21:07:22 <Wormnest> WormAI uses any industry that´s available.
21:07:59 <Borg> Wormnest: hope you coded it when industry is closed :)
21:09:07 <Wormnest> Borg: It will notice when profits go down and then sell vehicles. Can´t remember if it handles industry closing news but I think not
21:09:23 <Wormnest> There´s always more things to improve ;)
21:11:00 <Samu> LuDiAI is really crazy about airports
21:11:15 <Samu> the distance from one to another can clearly surpass 2000 tiles
21:12:13 <Samu> Not sure if that much distance makes it viabl
21:12:14 <Wormnest> more distance = more profits unless the planes are too slow
21:12:29 <Samu> yes, in this map size, they're only arriving at next year or so
21:13:51 <Samu> FFP Dart has just released, so maybe it can help him
21:15:19 <Samu> from 906x1687 to 3090x287
21:15:25 <Samu> halp me calculate distance
21:15:58 <Samu> @calc 3090-906 + 1687-287
21:16:27 <LordAro> unless it travels in straight lines
21:19:47 <LordAro> @calc (3090-906)-(1687-287) + sqrt(2 * (1687-287))
21:19:47 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 836.915026221
21:20:27 <LordAro> @calc (3090-906)-(1687-287) + sqrt(2 * (1687-287)^2)
21:20:27 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
21:20:33 <LordAro> @calc (3090-906)-(1687-287) + sqrt(2 * (1687-287)**2)
21:20:33 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 2763.89898732
21:27:59 <andythenorth> conflict in media/extra_grf/openttdgui.png eh :P
21:31:40 <andythenorth> that will be resolved in photoshop eh :P
21:39:36 <LordAro> when on earth did that file get changed
21:46:00 <frosch123> paul fixed some fire-cycle pixels in the switch-toolbar icon
21:55:48 <andythenorth> how do I rebuild openttd.grf?
21:55:52 <andythenorth> will just make do it?
21:56:42 <LordAro> there's a make rule somewhere..
21:57:29 <frosch123> if it finds grfcodec in your PATH, make will do
22:03:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: were the pixels in two yellow arrows?
22:03:48 <frosch123> paul redrew the whole icon
22:03:55 <frosch123> but they were in the right arrow
22:04:37 <andythenorth> ok I'm pasting it in :P
22:05:18 <andythenorth> might have worked
22:19:10 <andythenorth> so where's catenary then :P
22:19:35 <andythenorth> DrawRoadCatenary
22:20:26 <andythenorth> Wolf01: so did I understand, we could patch GetCustomRoadSprite to return a composite sprite?
22:20:37 <andythenorth> I might have crossed wires (no pun intended) :P
22:20:56 <andythenorth> probably the most appropriate use of 'crossed wires' ever :P
22:21:12 <andythenorth> so we have a sprite compositor? o_O
22:24:04 <andythenorth> so how do we do this? o_O
22:24:14 <Wolf01> Sprite slicing and composition would be cool
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22:31:31 <andythenorth> I could just duplicate all of DrawRoadCatenary()
22:31:40 <andythenorth> and reuse for tram
22:31:47 <andythenorth> but it seems redundant eh
22:33:37 <Wolf01> Nah, it should be possible to reuse it
22:34:43 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 14 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
22:35:20 <LordAro> hey, he did that one time, 6 years ago
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22:40:48 <Wolf01> andythenorth: from L:1430 it should be possible to draw 1 or both catenaries, you need to pass RoadTypeIdentifiers instead of RoadTypeIdentifier to the function btw
22:43:36 <andythenorth> call it twice, or loop inside it?
22:43:44 <andythenorth> it = DrawRoadCatenary
22:44:22 <andythenorth> ok that's for tomorrow then
22:45:19 <Wolf01> I can't be here tomorrow, also I need to sleep now
22:45:38 <Wolf01> Saturday I could help you
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22:50:33 <andythenorth> also sleep here :)
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23:37:46 <Samu> Wormnest: have you checked terron code? I don't understand its logic
23:38:02 <Samu> why sell vehicles if they're profiting
23:38:56 <Wormnest> Maybe there are newer and better vehicles available?
23:39:26 <Samu> i had 300 road vehicles once, now it only got 70
23:39:34 <Samu> profit graph is diminishing
23:39:51 <Wormnest> Or they were getting old
23:40:36 <Samu> that's the thing, they don't even get old
23:40:44 <Samu> he's constantly recycling?
23:42:37 <Samu> he's using transfers, i dont' really understand this ai
23:44:35 <Wormnest> Might be it thinks it needs less vehicles on a route
23:47:36 <Samu> I wonder if easy profile has a bad effect on him
23:47:55 <Samu> last test, he did much better, the profile there was hard
23:49:04 <Wormnest> Well easy profile is meant to take it easier.
23:49:38 <Wormnest> WormAI takes longer timeouts between doing things in the easy setting too
23:52:11 <Ancient1> hello earthly beings
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23:53:49 <Samu> terron log goes like this...
23:54:04 <Samu> selling specified vehicles
23:54:48 <Samu> constantly doing this cycle
23:55:03 <Samu> seems that lately, he's terminating and selling more vehicles though
23:55:18 <Ancient1> are you cracking it?
23:55:58 <Samu> road route reveals are 99% VALU
23:56:03 <Samu> VALU is for valuables, ya?
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23:57:38 <Ancient1> they make a specific AI for games?
23:59:46 <Samu> what causes Terron to "terminate links" or "selling specified vehicles"
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